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golentan
2010-02-08, 07:47 PM
Okay, so I'm putting up the final touches on my "Serious Business" kit, for whenever a situation gets dire enough that I truly need to stop goofing off.

So far, I have Duct Tape, Cabling, Cloth bandages, portable radio, knife, dried cherries and peaches, jerky, assorted seeds, fertilizer, iron pitons, aluminum paperclips and foil, bleach, acetone, seeds, compound bow, fletcher's kit, glass tubing, cell phone batteries, flint, and a hatchet. The entire pack weighs about 20 lbs.

Now, by my calculation in addition to providing me with sustenance, fire starting, emergency sterilization and wound treatment, communication, construction capacity, utility value, power generation, water purification, planting and harvesting, hunting, climbing equipment, and weaponry, it also allows me to (if absolutely necessary) open doors, poison threats, create a gas mask, dissolve unwanted materials, and build explosives. With at least one alternate tool use for every item on the list, and two ways to accomplish each task. I live in a year round 50-70 degree mediterranean climate, so I'm not worried about cold weather gear, or the like.

I'm not going to explain how it all works, of course, but is anyone else crazy prepared? What have you got in your packs that I'm overlooking? (I'd like to keep it under 30 lbs, though). Any times it's saved your... something? Fun stories?

Kallisti
2010-02-08, 08:04 PM
Got your tinfoil hat, ghost vacuum, never-worn baby shoes for sale, and lightning made of owls?

Crimmy
2010-02-08, 08:13 PM
Okay, so I'm putting up the final touches on my "Serious Business" kit, for whenever a situation gets dire enough that I truly need to stop goofing off.

So far, I have Duct Tape, Cabling, Cloth bandages, portable radio, knife, dried cherries and peaches, jerky, assorted seeds, fertilizer, iron pitons, aluminum paperclips and foil, bleach, acetone, seeds, compound bow, fletcher's kit, glass tubing, cell phone batteries, flint, and a hatchet. The entire pack weighs about 20 lbs.

Now, by my calculation in addition to providing me with sustenance, fire starting, emergency sterilization and wound treatment, communication, construction capacity, utility value, power generation, water purification, planting and harvesting, hunting, climbing equipment, and weaponry, it also allows me to (if absolutely necessary) open doors, poison threats, create a gas mask, dissolve unwanted materials, and build explosives. With at least one alternate tool use for every item on the list, and two ways to accomplish each task. I live in a year round 50-70 degree mediterranean climate, so I'm not worried about cold weather gear, or the like.

I'm not going to explain how it all works, of course, but is anyone else crazy prepared? What have you got in your packs that I'm overlooking? (I'd like to keep it under 30 lbs, though). Any times it's saved your... something? Fun stories?

I'd say something else to cut/attack. Keep the hatchet, add something else, like a knife, a big one, hunting or poacher knife. And it would be a good idea to add something flammable, in a sealed package, so that you could use it either for ingnition or defense.

Drakevarg
2010-02-08, 08:20 PM
Anti-Shark Spray. And Carousel Reversal Spray. And an Ultimate Nullifier, just to be sure.

Kallisti
2010-02-08, 08:29 PM
Oh, and a Timey-wimey detector--they go ding when there's stuff, it's really quite astounding--and a sonic screwdriver.

golentan
2010-02-08, 08:35 PM
I'd say something else to cut/attack. Keep the hatchet, add something else, like a knife, a big one, hunting or poacher knife. And it would be a good idea to add something flammable, in a sealed package, so that you could use it either for ingnition or defense.

Doh. Got a knife, don't have it listed.

K-bar, basically. Same company makes them anyway.

Force
2010-02-08, 08:35 PM
A couple handbooks on how to survive without modern technology might not hurt. Do you have arrows for your bow or the knowledge/equipment necessary to make them? Can you actually shoot the bow? Do you have stuff to sharpen that knife?

Also, I'd look into a better weapon if you can legally get your hands on one. A bow's great, but unless you have a fairly serious hatchet you might want something a little more effective for hand-to-hand. A Gerber or similar machete (make sure it's carbon steel and full-tang)or a serious axe shouldn't be too hard to get. If you want to get hard-core, you can pick up a decent sword for between $100-200. You can't carry that stuff out-and-around with you on a regular basis but having it at home is comfortable. When I get my chainmail done and my sword ordered in a couple weeks I will feel more safer in case of zombie apocalypse. :smallamused:

The Succubus
2010-02-08, 08:41 PM
I highly recommend reading the Zombie Survival Guide by Max Brooks. Essential information for how to deal with shambling zombies, a la Dawn of the Dead (early version). It does not cover beserker zombies a la 28 Days Later, Left 4 Dead, etc.

:xykon: - I can't even count the number of times my schemes have been foiled by this book.

golentan
2010-02-08, 09:26 PM
I highly recommend reading the Zombie Survival Guide by Max Brooks. Essential information for how to deal with shambling zombies, a la Dawn of the Dead (early version). It does not cover beserker zombies a la 28 Days Later, Left 4 Dead, etc.

:xykon: - I can't even count the number of times my schemes have been foiled by this book.

And in the thirty-seventh plan, I knowingly infect myself with the zombie virus, just so that I can devour you!

I can shoot the bow, I know how to care for the knife, and a hatchet is easier to employ in a variety of situations than a machete, with less training required if I recall my time with the vikings correctly.:smallamused:

SurlySeraph
2010-02-08, 09:33 PM
*summons reorith*

How much cable do you have? Do you have any paracord? You need a tarp or tent for rain. Do you have multiple easily handled containers for water? You'll want something calorie-dense, and a source of protein if possible. Get at least two more ways of making fire - a lighter and waterproof matches should be enough. If you're relying on the paperclips for lockpicks, get bobby pins or similar as well - paperclips bend too easily. I would recommend some more first aid gear - antibiotic ointment, compression bandages, a SAM splint, insect repellent, maybe more.

You seem to be in pretty good shape, though.

thubby
2010-02-08, 09:41 PM
you forgot wd40

THAC0
2010-02-08, 09:44 PM
Flash drive with encrypted scanned copies of my key documents.

Because it's good to survive once SHTF, but short of zombiepocalypse, the lights will come back on.

Anyway, I'm very well prepared, though not crazily so due to moving every three years. I do have a bug out bag next to my bed, complete kits in each car, and a fair amount of stuff in the garage anyway, though.

snoopy13a
2010-02-08, 09:49 PM
If you are truly preparing a worst case scenario survival kit then you should have some sort of gun or at least have a good hiding place. Otherwise, some guy with a gun may rob you of your supplies.

Me, I suppose I'll either starve to death, get killed by a Mad Max wannabe or die of dysentry from contaminated water or something. Oh well, no sense in worrying about it :smalltongue:

Kneenibble
2010-02-08, 09:50 PM
Don't forget the most important item of all, a towel.

CMOTDibbler
2010-02-08, 10:01 PM
Oh-ho. A survival thread. Lets see...
My household has:

30 days of food and water, camping equipment, water purifiers, 2 shotguns, bolt action 3006, 10/22, 2 military rifles, 22 pistol, 357 revolver, Lever action 357, A large assortment of cutting implements, A large assortment of handtools drills, saws hammers, rolls of plastic, tarps, and foxfire books and survival books, Where there is no doctor, Medicinal plants, Herbal remedies and Plant ID books. Large F/A kit including sutures.

I'd say we're pretty well prepared for almost anything.

Jack Squat
2010-02-08, 10:02 PM
How long can you last out of your bag? How long do you plan to? What do you have in the way of shelter? Where are you located, and would it be possible for you to obtain a firearm (and training)?

I see cloth bandages listed, but you'll need more in the way of a FAK (First-Aid Kit). What good will the seeds do you? What is the purpose of the kit, exactly? If it's for survival, I'd ditch pretty much everything and start over with more of a camping bag in mind. If it's for a one man assault, You need a lot more training if you expect to do anything with home-made explosives and a knife.

If you want to keep it under 20 lbs, I'd stick with a good emergency/wool blanket, spare change of clothes, hat, 1 day of food (MREs, House Mountain, Jerky, Peanut Butter, whatever), at least 1 litre of water, preferred 2, iodine tablets and a coffee filter for purifying a water source, silcock key for getting water, basic trauma kit, flashlight, small AM/FM radio, batteries, sharpie, spare important documents (Driver's License, Birth Certificate, Resume, etc.), matches/lighter, and a fixed blade knife (+ pistol/mags if you're allowed). This is for an urban setting, where you don't need to pitch a shelter. If I had room, I'd also toss in a toothbrush, toothpaste, deoderant, and a disposable razor. I'm probably forgetting something that I normally keep on my person anyways.

If you want a rural setting, I'd toss in a tent and a sleeping system, maybe removing the blanket, as well as another day's worth of food.

A site you may be interested in is Zombie Squad (http://zombiehunters.org), a survival-oriented site. Be warned that they don't actually believe in zombies, and will probably publicly ridicule you for posting a common question without reading around a bit first.

EDIT: Changed amt. of food, as you'd probably be on a size restriction as well - also, a couple hundred in spare cash will be very useful barring an entire collapse of your country's government.

Flickerdart
2010-02-08, 10:04 PM
That "Time Traveller's Cheat Sheet" poster is sure to come in handy when rebuilding modern science.

Kelb_Panthera
2010-02-08, 10:05 PM
I got my knife and a crap-ton of knowledge. If society collapses while I'm still alive, me and the old-lady are gonna find a nice quiet patch of woods and I'm gonna start from scratch.

Force
2010-02-08, 10:11 PM
I see cloth bandages listed, but you'll need more in the way of a FAK (First-Aid Kit).

I suggest taking a Red Cross First Aid Class. They're fairly cheap ($30) and will teach you a lot of good stuff. Plus, they'll give you a booklet that outlines how to handle most injuries, as well as an outline for creating a fairly complete kit. I've got one that goes everywhere with me when I ride my motorcycle.

CMOTDibbler
2010-02-08, 10:17 PM
A site you may be interested in is Zombie Squad (http://zombiehunters.org), a survival-oriented site. Be warned that they don't actually believe in zombies, and will probably publicly ridicule you for posting a common question without reading around a bit first.

My father is a member of ZS. Believe you me, a lot of them believe in zombies, Akunin including. :smallamused:

Renegade Paladin
2010-02-08, 10:21 PM
I have a bolt action Mossberg 20 ga. shotgun, a Filipino heavy-bladed sword that can easily double as a machete and the knowledge to use it as either, a fully equipped trauma kit, water enough to last several weeks should the nature of the emergency permit staying in the house, water purification tablets if it doesn't, canned and jarred food enough to eat for months if we can stay in the house, hunting expertise and field guides to plants if we can't, and practical outdoor clothing. I used to have a full insulated snowsuit for winter survival, but Mom gave it to Goodwill without asking me because she thought no one wore it. And then my car broke down and I had to walk to work through the snow in jeans. :smallmad:

Jack Squat
2010-02-08, 10:24 PM
I suggest taking a Red Cross First Aid Class. They're fairly cheap ($30) and will teach you a lot of good stuff. Plus, they'll give you a booklet that outlines how to handle most injuries, as well as an outline for creating a fairly complete kit. I've got one that goes everywhere with me when I ride my motorcycle.

I keep forgetting a lot of people don't do this :smalltongue: In my mind, equipment doesn't come without training, so I'll pass over mentioning it a lot of the time.

IMO, a class isn't necessary if you know what you're doing - and if you have a friend who knows what to do, he can give you some informal lessons. Basic First-Aid isn't that difficult, and getting the certification really only gives you some further protection in-case someone tries to take civil action against you.

That being said, I've got first responder & water rescue certifications, and am working up the scratch to take an EMS class. Training through the proper channels is always a good idea, but it's not always necessary.

Though on the subject of training, whatever kit you put together, don't just let it sit there until the time comes that you need it. Plan a few mock events every now and then that require you to rely on your gear for an extended amount of time. That way when the time comes that you need to use it, it'll be no big deal.


My father is a member of ZS. Believe you me, a lot of them believe in zombies, Akunin including. :smallamused:

I haunt mostly the gear sections, DICE, and Off-Topic. There's really not a whole lot of discussion of zombies, and generally the people who post something about zombies in those areas (well, not Off-Topic so much) are reminded that it's just a metaphor for any real disaster.

Either way, it's a bad idea to go in there talking about how in the event of a zombie uprising you'll be the marshall over the local Wal-Mart :smallwink:

Force
2010-02-08, 10:27 PM
I keep forgetting a lot of people don't do this :smalltongue: In my mind, equipment doesn't come without training, so I'll pass over mentioning it a lot of the time.

IMO, a class isn't necessary if you know what you're doing - and if you have a friend who knows what to do, he can give you some informal lessons. Basic First-Aid isn't that difficult, and getting the certification really only gives you some further protection in-case someone tries to take civil action against you.


Whenever I see one of these threads, I always wonder if people actually train with their gear. S'why I suggested the class. Give me three years and I should know enough about trauma medicine to do alright (and my first aid kit will have grown to encompass an entire backpack all on its own), but that's going to be my job, so... I'll just go get firearms training instead.

golentan
2010-02-08, 11:15 PM
It's not so much a survival kit as a "should anything happen, I have a crazy flexibility and can toss in required survival kit equipment."

I can survive for a week off the food in the pack, I can plant a year's supply of food, I can improvise all manner of electronics, survive off of foliage and wildlife pretty much indefinitely, build batteries, charge batteries, mount guerrilla warfare, get myself back into my house if I lose my keys, what have you.

I can't do any of these things as well as I could with a dedicated pack (some of which I have), but I can do all these things. And I do have training with most of it.

Crouton
2010-02-08, 11:37 PM
The only thing I would suggest, and maybe you've covered it with "cabling," but I would add 550 cord... that stuff is amazing.

reorith
2010-02-09, 12:09 AM
i have a 72 hour BOB. don't feel like going into the specifics. i also have enough firearms to arm a handful of people and enough ammo to take on everyone at the battle of little bighorn. :smallwink: this is just the stuff i keep in the living room. (http://i48.tinypic.com/mkym3k.jpg)

llamamushroom
2010-02-09, 01:14 AM
Something I learnt today, for defence: oven cleaner. It's Sodium Hydroxide in aerosol form. Holy Mary, that stuff's dangerous. And you can buy it at Coles.

In terms of practical advice, you mention cable (which I presume is reasonably heavy). I'd suggest a lighter cord as well, for snares and fiddly tying up, and a basic sewing kit. Never know when those survival pants are gonna snag on a rock.

Amiel
2010-02-09, 01:19 AM
Are you preparing for the inevitable collapse of civilisation in the event of a zombie apocalypse (http://www2.carleton.ca/newsroom/top-stories/ottawa-students-pit-mathematics-against-zombie-apocalypse/)?


I, for one, welcome our Insect Overlords (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Space_Homer).

Bob_the_Mighty
2010-02-09, 03:23 AM
Matches/a lighter would probably be more reliable than flint if you needed to light something in a pinch. Flares would probably be good to have, too. Does your hatchet have a hammer on the other end? A hammer is always usefull. Maybe a flat bar for prying things open. Some type of pot/pan for cooking/boiling water to clean it would be useful. Maybe actually carry a litre of water in it just incase? Multi vitamins might also be beneficial, just to keep you healthy if you can't fill nutritional needs with the food you manage to scrounge up. Oh, and some type of anti-bacterial, and maybe kindling of some kind, kept sealed in plastic to keep it dry...maybe a splitting wedge if you have a hammer or your hatchet doubles as a hammer, but that might be a little heavy compared to everything else your bringing if you're trying to pack light.

Eldan
2010-02-09, 03:32 AM
If you don't know a lot about botany, I'd recommend one of these books which help you identify common plants and tell you which of them are edible. Those are handy.

Totally Guy
2010-02-09, 03:41 AM
Carrying around a gas mask for use in a just in case" emergency situation is not in fact a genius move.

Ah look, the Joker has shown up with Joker Gas and is knocking out all the people. You'll just whip out your gas mask and evade this attack.

Next thing you know Batman comes chasing you because he thinks you're one of the Joker's minions.

So either you get punched by Batman or you get knocked out. Even with a gas mask you can't win.

smellie_hippie
2010-02-09, 09:58 AM
I didn't see fishing line or thread for some of the "first aid" requirements.
I would also recommend something like a penny whistle or a harmonica... because in the down-times you might need to provide some minor amount of entertainment...

KuReshtin
2010-02-09, 10:02 AM
Fire-steel and steel wool.
The steel wool acts as awesome tinder if necessary.
Also, if you have matches, a piece of rubber inner-tube is also good for starting a fire.

These things I have learned from Ray Mears.

wxdruid
2010-02-09, 11:39 AM
With a gas mask you need a good filter... or it's all worthless. :smalltongue:

Bisected8
2010-02-09, 11:56 AM
I'm in the habit of carrying a first aid kit around on my belt (one of those small ones intended for hiking). Have you considered that?

Stormthorn
2010-02-09, 12:25 PM
I live in a year round 50-70 degree mediterranean climate, so I'm not worried about cold weather gear, or the like.


Really? Not worried are you? You fool! You have tempted fate! When nuclear winter blots out the sky or Yellowstone erupts they will find your frozen corpse locked as you died: weeping eternal to the icy black sky! You have sealed your own doom, mortal.

Solaris
2010-02-09, 12:57 PM
I highly recommend reading the Zombie Survival Guide by Max Brooks. Essential information for how to deal with shambling zombies, a la Dawn of the Dead (early version). It does not cover beserker zombies a la 28 Days Later, Left 4 Dead, etc.

:xykon: - I can't even count the number of times my schemes have been foiled by this book.

Or... not, and have an even better chance of survival. An entertaining read, but I'd hardly call it a good survival guide. The man goes gaga over .22 rimfires, for Chrissake, when they have a rather limited engagement range. I would take a limited engagement range - a civilian whose nerve isn't easily confused for fine-spun steel wire and whose sanity remains unquestionably sound should not.
I'm not even going to go into his recommending katanas over more sensible weapons like hatchets, picks, or combat knives.


Fire-steel and steel wool.
The steel wool acts as awesome tinder if necessary.
Also, if you have matches, a piece of rubber inner-tube is also good for starting a fire.

These things I have learned from Ray Mears.

Laundry lint. The stuff catches fire and then doesn't stop. Gotta keep it dry, though. It's pretty easy to come by, though. I keep a small baggie of it in my room.
I'd add zip-loc bags to the list. I don't go on an FTX without 'em, on account of Rule #1 of the FTX: Somebody's bags are going to get rained on, and they're going to be yours.
You mentioned guerrilla war. I'd look into the FM 3-07.22, the Army's field manual on counterinsurgency operations. I'd also look into the FM 7-8, the infantry's field manual. Learn it, love it, use it, and realize your opposition probably will too. There's an author by the name of H. John Poole. He comes highly recommended on asymmetrical warfare. I'd look into his books as well - even if they are dry as the Mojave. Secure a weapon before you need it, and get proficient with that weapon - you need to be able to reload, aim, fire, and clear it all while being shot at. You need to have dead-on accuracy standing up and kneeling - none of that prone position BS the military's hot for these days. Range needs to be at least fifty to a hundred meters, minimum.

THAC0
2010-02-09, 01:06 PM
Or... not, and have an even better chance of survival. An entertaining read, but I'd hardly call it a good survival guide. The man goes gaga over .22 rimfires, for Chrissake, when they have a rather limited engagement range. I would take a limited engagement range - a civilian whose nerve isn't easily confused for fine-spun steel wire and whose sanity remains unquestionably sound should not.
I'm not even going to go into his recommending katanas over more sensible weapons like hatchets, picks, or combat knives.


Having not read it, I've no idea why the dude goes crazy over the rimfires, but they are incredibly useful for small game hunting, which is why mine would be one of the first things in the car if I ever got the call to get out of town ASAP. :smallsmile:

valadil
2010-02-09, 01:16 PM
... compound bow, fletcher's kit, ...

I can shoot the bow...


But have you ever made arrows? It's a pain. And if you're shooting compound, you probably won't want to shoot some sticks you found in the woods. It'd rip right through them. I've even seen aluminum/carbon arrows broken when shot out of a heavy compound. Even if they stay intact, they won't have the same size or grain, so each homemade arrow will shoot differently. And even if you somehow do manage to fletch a perfect set of arrows, it'll take hours. When the zombie apocalypse breaks out, zombie won't wait for the glue on your feathers to finish trying.

Instead, get a bunch of arrows and use the kit to keep them in working order. They're not heavy and will serve you a lot better than ones you make yourself.

Unless of course you already had arrows and neglected to mention them.

I'd also suggest a compass and thread/needle. All of which are neglible weight. The thread and needle repairs clothes and can be used for stitching wounds. How about a whetstone for that knife? Some other tools might be nice too. They won't help with the wilderness, but I'd absolutely bring a screwdriver, pliers, and lockpicks, under the assumption of raiding abandoned towns and cities.

Finally, if you do take this seriously you should practice hiking with your kit. Get used to the weight. Make sure it's distributed comfortably.

Bisected8
2010-02-09, 01:16 PM
The aformentioned "going gaga" consists of a few sentances. The first of which note it's low power and limited usefulness. The last couple note that it does has the ability to potentially take down a zombie (since the bullet will rebound if it penatrates the skull) and it is at least lighter. The weapon is never mentioned again.

He justfied the katana later in the book; it was used to great effect in one of the "case studies".

Bouregard
2010-02-09, 02:16 PM
Crowbar.
Tool or weapon. just use it.

A big piece of cloth/fabric.
You can use it to build a tent or use it as clothing. And many many more uses (see hitchhikers guide to the galaxy)

Canned food:
It lasts long, tastes decent. Ideal choice. Even if you're just too lazy to go buy something.

Magnor Criol
2010-02-09, 02:52 PM
Props on the preparedness :D I have a backpack that I carry around with me everywhere - my friends call it my man-purse :smalltongue: - that I'e done something similar, though I'm not as prepared for the extremes as you are. I've focused on just the day-to-day eventualities.

Suggestions:

Microfiber towels are light, mid-sized, and thin (so they can be folded or rolled to a small size). You can find them in most camping departments or stores. I highly recommend getting one; there's one in my daily backpack and I use it surprisingly often. Turns out Douglas Adams really did know what he was talking about. :smalltongue:

On a similar note, get some bandannas. You can get them at wal-mart or, better, hobby lobby (this is assuming you live in the US...) They're cheap, small, weigh nothing and you can fit them into whatever spare corner of the backpack you have. And they're hellishly useful - I use my bandannas more than my towel. They're first-aid rags, light-duty bandages, sweat rags, water filters, hankerchiefs, you name it.

Also, if you can find a way to fit a light set of backup clothes in there - just, like, a t-shirt and a light set of shorts or something - it's really nice to have a set to change in to when you need it. I speak from experience. :smallamused:

TheThan
2010-02-09, 02:55 PM
I would suggest replacing your flint with a magnesium fire starter kit, you should be able to find one at your local sports store (assuming they carry hunting/camping gear). They are much more reliant than flint, will work in the rain and not only will it burn forever, itíll last you forever. Another good idea is one of those wonderful takedown rifles. If you plan on doing any hunting these will fit the bill nicely. They are compact and self-storing when not in use, supposedly accurate and rugged to boot. I also suggest canned food, as they have very long self-lives (but they do take up more space and weight). A cheep plastic poncho will do wonders for keeping the rain off you.

I recommend one of those survival radios that are an AM/FM radio and a short-wave built into one. Itíll give you information on whether, traffic conditions, locations of safe/evacuation zones, etc as well as communications. Some of these are even fitted with crank starters in case your batteries go out before your rescued.

I also recommend a good LED flashlight/torch, you donít really need a big one, but make sure itís bright. Also as with any electronic gear, keep the batteries fresh, as they have a way of corroding and ruining your gear.


I love the suggestion of the harmonica/penny whistle, itíll help keep you entertained and keep your spirits up.

edit
forgot to mention the toilet paper.

xPANCAKEx
2010-02-09, 03:07 PM
...create a gas mask...

if you're in a situation that requires a gasmask you're not gunna have time enough to built one

gas masks really don't weigh that much and you could pick one up cheap from military surplus

and get yourself a decent bevowac (sp?) bag. They weigh next to nothing

Force
2010-02-09, 03:27 PM
Or... not, and have an even better chance of survival. An entertaining read, but I'd hardly call it a good survival guide. The man goes gaga over .22 rimfires, for Chrissake, when they have a rather limited engagement range. I would take a limited engagement range - a civilian whose nerve isn't easily confused for fine-spun steel wire and whose sanity remains unquestionably sound should not.
I'm not even going to go into his recommending katanas over more sensible weapons like hatchets, picks, or combat knives.


I presume you'd prefer some variant on the AR/AK chambered in 5.56 NATO? 7.62 NATO might actually make a comeback in case of zombies, though; longer range is ALWAYS nice and if you hit the skull with one of those the zombie is going down and staying that way. Advantage with either round is that they're more common than most other rounds except .22 and 9MM, and he who takes a .22 rifle or a 9MM handgun/SMG over a battle rifle is either really really good or really reallys tupid.

Katanas aren't *bad*, so to speak, but the average person who would prepare for zombies with a katana would get a cheap stainless steel wallhanger, or some barely better cheap carbon steel wallhanger and think that's sufficient. If you wanted a sword a good European-style full tang carbon steel type would be the best; katanas are good against flesh, not bone.

Solaris
2010-02-09, 03:33 PM
Having not read it, I've no idea why the dude goes crazy over the rimfires, but they are incredibly useful for small game hunting, which is why mine would be one of the first things in the car if I ever got the call to get out of town ASAP. :smallsmile:

Which is their purpose, something they do excel at. However, he's talking about using them for taking down automatons of human size.


The aformentioned "going gaga" consists of a few sentances. The first of which note it's low power and limited usefulness. The last couple note that it does has the ability to potentially take down a zombie (since the bullet will rebound if it penatrates the skull) and it is at least lighter. The weapon is never mentioned again.

He justified the katana later in the book; it was used to great effect in one of the "case studies".

He gives it a more positive recommendation than shotguns (much better at close range) or the assault rifles (much better at any range). Assault rifles are designed to kill people. As THAC0 points out, the .22 is designed to kill small game. If I'm expecting Thumper and Flower to be all the problems I'm running into, then I'm packing me some .22 rimfire rounds. If I'm taking out Bambi, I'm bringing something with a little more stopping power. The .22 is almost on par, but even the 5.56mm NATO is a wee weaker than I'd care to bring along for hunting big game. It works perfectly fine against most enemy combatants, if you fire two bullets at them.
You're right, though, he does point out that it's fairly low-grade - he's just not as strident about it as he is while denouncing the assault rifles!

A katana is not a bad weapon, per se - I mean, if it was the samurai wouldn't have used it for centuries. It's just a lot more expensive than, say, a hatchet, and is about as lethal. The katana is good at cutting through flesh, sure, maybe even optimal, but it requires more training than other weaponry. I wouldn't take one that's scavenged, as I wouldn't want to find out how unreliable a replica is the hard way.
A'course, I'm the sort of guy who walks around the Sandbox with a tire iron or a ball-peen hammer because I can be exactly as lethal as I need to be with it - anywhere from crushing skulls on down to rapping knuckles.

Tangent Alert:
His lack of knowledge about the assault rifle alone made me laugh out loud (you don't need to adjust the sights every time range changes, you just need to be familiar with the ballistics of your round). Adjusting the range on an M16A2 does not require a pen, it's a simple matter of moving a lever up and down to the pre-marked notches. Still wouldn't do it in combat, but it's not exactly a hard thing to do. The AK-47, which he does recommend, gets points off in the real world for piss-poor accuracy and often lacking a single-fire mode. I can fire it off on quick bursts - but I've been trained for combat. Your average civilian will hose out a magazine at a single target without even realizing it. It is very reliable, but then again so is the M16A2 if the M16A2's been cleaned. Cleaning an M16-series weapon back up to serviceable takes all of four-five minutes (wipe out the star chamber, clean out the bolt assembly, punch the tube).
As for when he goes into the butt-stock... He'd have an argument for the polymer butt of the M4, but the M16-series butt is sturdier than that. A lot of AKs I've seen actually lacked the wood butt altogether, instead opting for a frail wire assembly.

Oh, golentan, one more FM to be a-readin': FM 3-05.70. Army Survival Guide. I think that's one I can't hand out, as it doesn't say it's freely available, so I'm probably not supposed to tell you that you can find it with a little bit of Google-Fu.

Force
2010-02-09, 03:43 PM
A katana is not a bad weapon, per se - I mean, if it was the samurai wouldn't have used it for centuries. It's just a lot more expensive than, say, a hatchet, and is about as lethal. The katana is good at cutting through flesh, sure, maybe even optimal, but it requires more training than other weaponry. I wouldn't take one that's scavenged, as I wouldn't want to find out how unreliable a replica is the hard way.

Slight tangent. The katana was the best weapon for its intended purpose (a back-up, close in weapon for when bow or spear were not optimal or not available) due to the limitations of Japanese metallurgy (they did not have a great deal of iron and what iron they had was at best CRAP). An authentic katana, if you hit it against bone really hard, will develop stress fractures and shatter eventually. It was made to cut open the flesh and major arteries/veins of lightly armored opponents. There are reasons that Japanese swordfighting is all about quick blows that open major blood vessels or 'finish off' an enemy with a single swing; you don't see the blade-on-blade blocks that European weapons were regularly subjected to. If you want something that will chop heads or spear brains, a katana is the wrong kind of tool. Get thee an arming sword or, better yet, a bastard sword, if you must have a blade.

Bisected8
2010-02-09, 03:53 PM
Which is their purpose, something they do excel at. However, he's talking about using them for taking down automatons of human size.

He gives it a more positive recommendation than shotguns (much better at close range) or the assault rifles (much better at any range). Assault rifles are designed to kill people. As THAC0 points out, the .22 is designed to kill small game. If I'm expecting Thumper and Flower to be all the problems I'm running into, then I'm packing me some .22 rimfire rounds. If I'm taking out Bambi, I'm bringing something with a little more stopping power. The .22 is almost on par, but even the 5.56mm NATO is a wee weaker than I'd care to bring along for hunting big game. It works perfectly fine against most enemy combatants, if you fire two bullets at them.
You're right, though, he does point out that it's fairly low-grade - he's just not as strident about it as he is while denouncing the assault rifles!

The entire premise of the book is that the only thing that can kill a zombie is a headshot and that survival is as important as zombie killing. He denounces assault rifles (and speaks in favour of their bolt action and semi-auto cousins, which he grades much more highly that the .22, which merely gets a "don't overlook it") because they give up accuracy for the ability to shoot multiple rounds at a target; i.e. their advantage is a disadvantage in a survival situation where precision shots are what counts. He has good reason to argue assault rifles are no use. Similarly, he notes that while shotguns can knock zombies over, they have to be aimed at the head at close range to properly kill them and they weigh much more than rifle ammo (which has the advantage of range).

You appear to have some sort of firearms and tactical training, but you're trying to apply it to a situation where the very book you're criticising points out that conventional military tactics are no use.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand...

TheThan
2010-02-09, 04:10 PM
If your talking about big game hunting (deer, etc) you cannot go wrong with a bolt action 30.06 hunting rifle. The round will kill anything on three continents. About the only things you have to worry about are the bigger animals in Africa, but if you have to kill those, thereís a good chance you have a large enough rifle for that anyway.

If Iím in an urban environment, then I have another concern instead of game. That is protection from others. Lets face the facts here, there are a lot of unsavory people in the world and when the fecal matter hits the fan, there will be nothing holding these sorts in check. So defensive weapons are a must in an urban environment (look at all the looting that took place during hurricane Katrina. For this I would recommend a good shotgun, preferably 12 or 20 (probably 12). I would add a pistol grip and a folding stock, and then I would cut the barrel down to almost nothing. Since most gunfights are at close range, and your likely to be in an enclose environment, having it cut down (which is indeed illegal here, but if thereís no law, who cares?) will increase its maneuverability in tight spaces. for a sidearm, I highly suggest a colt 1911 chambered in .45 ACP, or any of its descendants. they are accurate, powerful, rugged, reliable and easy to scrounge ammo for.



Now if firearms are not available, I would recommend a slingshot/wrist rocket. Getting drilled by one of these will deter all but the determined, and will indeed kill most small game (squirrels, rabbits etc). Ammunition should be plentiful and itís small and compact.


Granted Iím talking about general survival in a worst case scenario, natural disaster, terror attack, zombie apocalypse etc.

Jack Squat
2010-02-09, 05:44 PM
The entire premise of the book is that the only thing that can kill a zombie is a headshot and that survival is as important as zombie killing. He denounces assault rifles (and speaks in favour of their bolt action and semi-auto cousins, which he grades much more highly that the .22, which merely gets a "don't overlook it") because they give up accuracy for the ability to shoot multiple rounds at a target; i.e. their advantage is a disadvantage in a survival situation where precision shots are what counts. He has good reason to argue assault rifles are no use. Similarly, he notes that while shotguns can knock zombies over, they have to be aimed at the head at close range to properly kill them and they weigh much more than rifle ammo (which has the advantage of range).

By definition, all "assault rifles" are select fire - that is, they can be switched between semi-automatic and burst/full-auto. A soley full-auto rifle is called a machine gun. In a survival situation, and in quite a few battle scenarios, full-auto fire is not necessary, nor recommended. To be quite honest, if you can hit a head-sized target, it doesn't matter much what type of gun you use, and if you can't, it doesn't matter much either. Some have their advantages (such as better mechanical accuracy, higher round count, faster follow-up shots, &c), but in the end those features only help a competent user, they don't make or break one.


You appear to have some sort of firearms and tactical training, but you're trying to apply it to a situation where the very book you're criticising points out that conventional military tactics are no use.

I think the problem is that the book is written for comedy purposes, and in fact is not meant to be scrutinized at this level. If you want good books on tactics, read ones by men who have employed tactics - the most likely candidates are ex-military and government operatives. If you want good books to laugh at, read ones written by comedians.

[hr]

I'm still curious as to golentan's bag's use. I'm having trouble thinking of a situation where you'll need to travel light and mount a small one-man assault using improvised munitions and then plant a year's worth of crops.

I'd suggest making separate bags, a general, light short-term GHB/BOB, an assault pack, and an INCH/long-term survival bag. All three are very different goals, even though they all have some overlap.

Solaris
2010-02-09, 06:25 PM
Slight tangent. The katana was the best weapon for its intended purpose (a back-up, close in weapon for when bow or spear were not optimal or not available) due to the limitations of Japanese metallurgy (they did not have a great deal of iron and what iron they had was at best CRAP). An authentic katana, if you hit it against bone really hard, will develop stress fractures and shatter eventually. It was made to cut open the flesh and major arteries/veins of lightly armored opponents. There are reasons that Japanese swordfighting is all about quick blows that open major blood vessels or 'finish off' an enemy with a single swing; you don't see the blade-on-blade blocks that European weapons were regularly subjected to. If you want something that will chop heads or spear brains, a katana is the wrong kind of tool. Get thee an arming sword or, better yet, a bastard sword, if you must have a blade.

Yes. A katana is an overgrown scalpel requiring a great deal of know-how and training; not something I'd prefer unless I've had that training and practice with it.


The entire premise of the book is that the only thing that can kill a zombie is a headshot and that survival is as important as zombie killing. He denounces assault rifles (and speaks in favour of their bolt action and semi-auto cousins, which he grades much more highly that the .22, which merely gets a "don't overlook it") because they give up accuracy for the ability to shoot multiple rounds at a target; i.e. their advantage is a disadvantage in a survival situation where precision shots are what counts. He has good reason to argue assault rifles are no use. Similarly, he notes that while shotguns can knock zombies over, they have to be aimed at the head at close range to properly kill them and they weigh much more than rifle ammo (which has the advantage of range).

You appear to have some sort of firearms and tactical training, but you're trying to apply it to a situation where the very book you're criticising points out that conventional military tactics are no use.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand...

Except the problem is that those tactics are of use. Like Jack says, the book's written to entertain - which it does quite well. It's not something you'd follow for serious advice. Case in point? A trained marksman can hit a target the size of a human hand held at twenty-five meters with an M4. Most can hit something the size of a dime. You don't need more accuracy than that to hit a human's head. That's with a single bullet, of course. The M4 has three settings: Safe, Semi, and Burst. Semi fires one round per trigger squeeze, while Burst fires three rounds. Fighting zombies is a lot like fighting unarmed, slow-moving civilians: So easy it's criminal, but you gotta keep your nerve.
Shotguns? Dude, give me a shotgun over an M4 if I'm picking fights with humans/zombies in close combat - just not a double-barrel. A semiautomatic shotgun would do wonders against small groups, the main problem being reloading it. A 12-gauge has large shells, but something like a 20-gauge has significantly smaller shells and can still deliver substantial amounts of damage/stopping power to a target in close quarters (under twenty-five meters, when I use the term). A lot of fire-teams eschew having four riflemen in favor of having three riflemen and a fella with a shotgun when they're clearing rooms on account of the simple fact that a rifle will put a moderately fatal hole in a person, while a shotgun will blow an arm off if not outright kill.

TheThan
2010-02-09, 07:08 PM
Shotguns? Dude, give me a shotgun over an M4 if I'm picking fights with humans/zombies in close combat - just not a double-barrel. A semiautomatic shotgun would do wonders against small groups, the main problem being reloading it.

They have speed re-loaders for shotguns now, so that's not a big deal. :wink:

Slayn82
2010-02-09, 07:25 PM
Wherever you could go, a small bundle of cooper wires is always an usefull adition. Helps a lot with unexpected repairs.

Durp
2010-02-09, 07:35 PM
At an army surplus store near me, they have something called a "zombie survival kit" which is essentially just a "when technology craps out" kit. It's all a sales pitch, but it works. It's basically:
-First aid kit
-Blackened, 18-inch machete
-Water purification kit
-Towel(:smallwink:)
-Heavy gloves
-Rations for 12 days
-Canteen
-Small, pistol-crossbow
-Bolts for said crossbow

I'm forgetting a good half of what they put in there, but that's the basics.

reorith
2010-02-09, 07:38 PM
Now if firearms are not available, I would recommend a slingshot/wrist rocket. Getting drilled by one of these will deter all but the determined, and will indeed kill most small game (squirrels, rabbits etc). Ammunition should be plentiful and itís small and compact.

i see your slingshot and raise you a home depot 12 gauge (http://tinypic.com/r/i57yf4/6)

TheThan
2010-02-09, 07:59 PM
i see your slingshot and raise you a home depot 12 gauge (http://tinypic.com/r/i57yf4/6)

Does that thing actually work? I'd be scared to death of it exploding on me.

reorith
2010-02-09, 08:17 PM
Does that thing actually work? I'd be scared to death of it exploding on me.

it works just fine. i wouldn't use this design for a rifle though because of the lack of rifling. the parts can be obtained for under $11 and assembly takes roughly 30 minutes with hand tools.

Gaelbert
2010-02-09, 08:22 PM
this is just the stuff i keep in the living room. (http://i48.tinypic.com/mkym3k.jpg)
I hate to break it to you, but that stuff is worthless without any guns. :smalltongue:

Solaris
2010-02-09, 08:23 PM
I hate to break it to you, but that stuff is worthless without any guns. :smalltongue:

Who cares? His place makes for hella good loot!

Sinon
2010-02-09, 08:36 PM
I live within walking distance of a TruValue, Ace Hardware, and a WalMart in addition to two other grocery stores and a liquor store.

There is also a hospital, a med school, and a couple of college dorms.

Actually, I live in a pretty small college town, so all of this is within walking distance.

I find it convenient to secret my emergency supplies spread out at those locations.

I should be able to easily acquire "Duct Tape, Cabling, Cloth bandages, portable radio, knife, dried cherries and peaches, jerky, assorted seeds, fertilizer, iron pitons, aluminum paperclips and foil, bleach, acetone, seeds, compound bow" as well as "glass tubing, cell phone batteries, flint, and a hatchet."

I don't know if there's fletcher's kit around. But I've never fletched.

There's also actual medicine and stuff, so, bonus.

I do carry a towel with me though. (Weight: about 17 oz.) Worse comes to worst, people assume that a guy who has it together enough to have a towel, probably has all that other stuff, too, so they'll unhesitatingly lend me a fletcher's kit if I need one.

reorith
2010-02-09, 08:38 PM
I hate to break it to you, but that stuff is worthless without any guns. :smalltongue:

and that's why i have these (http://i50.tinypic.com/mmvng6.jpg) and those are just the ones from my study.

Solaris
2010-02-09, 08:39 PM
I live within walking distance of a TruValue, Ace Hardware, and a WalMart in addition to two other grocery stores and a liquor store.

There is also a hospital, a med school, and a couple of college dorms.

Actually, I live in a pretty small college town, so all of this is within walking distance.

I find it convenient to secret my emergency supplies spread out at those locations.

I should be able to easily acquire "Duct Tape, Cabling, Cloth bandages, portable radio, knife, dried cherries and peaches, jerky, assorted seeds, fertilizer, iron pitons, aluminum paperclips and foil, bleach, acetone, seeds, compound bow" as well as "glass tubing, cell phone batteries, flint, and a hatchet."

I don't know if there's fletcher's kit around. But I've never fletched.

There's also actual medicine and stuff, so, bonus.

I do carry a towel with me though. (Weight: about 17 oz.) Worse comes to worst, people assume that a guy who has it together enough to have a towel, probably has all that other stuff, too, so they'll unhesitatingly lend me a fletcher's kit if I need one.

Scavenging after the fact is never a terribly good plan.

Sinon
2010-02-09, 08:45 PM
Scavenging after the fact is never a terribly good plan.Hence the towel.

I also own a copy of Red Dawn so, you know, I feel pretty well covered.

Jack Squat
2010-02-09, 09:45 PM
They have speed re-loaders for shotguns now, so that's not a big deal. :wink:

Plus there's the Saiga 12; an AK-pattern shotgun that has 10 & 13 round mags, as well as 20 round drums. If I had a job that paid anything half-decent, I'd definitely be seen picking one up.

Solaris
2010-02-09, 09:55 PM
Hence the towel.

I also own a copy of Red Dawn so, you know, I feel pretty well covered.

Great movie. You do realize that about one of them survived to the end, right? That's not exactly accurate.
Typically, none of the irregulars survive confrontation with regular army.

reorith
2010-02-09, 10:07 PM
Great movie. You do realize that about one of them survived to the end, right? That's not exactly accurate.
Typically, none of the irregulars survive confrontation with regular army.

1. that film was nothing but propaganda created by leftist hollywood elites to establish sympathy for the mujahideen in the face of a soviet invasion.
2. there are plenty of neat resources on asymmetrical warfare available from plenty of sources, something your beloved WOLVERINES didn't have.

Trog
2010-02-09, 10:08 PM
Get one of these (http://bushbuddy.ca/indexs.html). Or at least make one similar for much less money (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_3xDqzEgzE&feature=fvw). If worse comes to worse there's always this nifty method for cooking (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pajkt594Ruw).

Also: Other survival tips on this handy site (http://www.survivaltopics.com/). :smallsmile:

Sinon
2010-02-09, 10:28 PM
Great movie. You do realize that about one of them survived to the end, right? That's not exactly accurate.

Pshaw! twice that many survived!



1. that film was nothing but propaganda created by leftist hollywood elites to establish sympathy for the mujahideen in the face of a soviet invasion.Have I been sitting on the wrong side of the aisle, or was I out of the room when we rewrote history?

reorith
2010-02-09, 10:41 PM
in 1979 the soviets invaded afghanistan and started rofl pwning the mujaheddin for the next eight or so years. most of the mujaheddin were young lads like your buddies the eckerts.

Solaris
2010-02-09, 10:51 PM
1. that film was nothing but propaganda created by leftist hollywood elites to establish sympathy for the mujahideen in the face of a soviet invasion.
2. there are plenty of neat resources on asymmetrical warfare available from plenty of sources, something your beloved WOLVERINES didn't have.

Yep. I recommend boning up before the invasion starts, not after.


Pshaw! twice that many survived!


Have I been sitting on the wrong side of the aisle, or was I out of the room when we rewrote history?

Meh. I'd say the movie was fairly neutral, but that's not something we want to be discussing on the forum unless we don't want to post in this thread anymore.

reorith
2010-02-09, 11:06 PM
the invasion begins nov 24th (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1234719/)

Sinon
2010-02-09, 11:20 PM
I was aware of when it started and who fought whom.

It was the "left wing" thing I questioned.

________________________

Boning up before the invasion starts is just silly. Those who bone up now, before there's anyone capable of mounting an invasion, are only going to make themselves targets.

Trust me: no oneís going to be banging on the door of Casa de Sinon trying to get his stockpile of duct tape. Theyíre going to be looting the Flandersí place next door.

reorith
2010-02-09, 11:25 PM
ah i see. leftist and elitist are my two favorite unfounded claims to make.

Force
2010-02-09, 11:29 PM
Boning up before the invasion starts is just silly. Those who bone up now, before there's anyone capable of mounting an invasion, are only going to make themselves targets.

Trust me: no oneís going to be banging on the door of Casa de Sinon trying to get his stockpile of duct tape. Theyíre going to be looting the Flandersí place next door.

The last thing you want it to be caught in the frantic rush of people looking for some (any) supplies, or worse yet, being at the mercy of organized crime when it does happen. If you must prepare, simply don't tell anyone you don't trust that you have stuff stockpiled. A good shotgun will help with the rest.

Sinon
2010-02-09, 11:39 PM
ah i see. leftist and elitist are my two favorite unfounded claims to make. And if you arenít sure with to use, ďliberalĒ accurately covers both, and with the same disregard for manmsy pamsy defining of terms.

I ask myself, who would Ronnie shoot?


The last thing you want it to be caught in the frantic rush of people looking for some (any) supplies, or worse yet, being at the mercy of organized crime when it does happen. If you must prepare, simply don't tell anyone you don't trust that you have stuff stockpiled. A good shotgun will help with the rest. See, this is actually my entire point: why stockpile? All you have to do is know where the guys who stockpile hide.

THAC0
2010-02-10, 12:32 AM
See, this is actually my entire point: why stockpile? All you have to do is know where the guys who stockpile hide.

And hope they aren't stockpiling guns and ammo. :smallwink:

chiasaur11
2010-02-10, 01:30 AM
I second the crowbar recommendation. You'll need it should the Xen Borderworlds invade.

I got a small one for just 3 dollars!

Solaris
2010-02-10, 01:43 AM
And hope they aren't stockpiling guns and ammo. :smallwink:

Not to mention the moral reprehensibility of banditry. You may think "Who cares?" but don't forget that there are people who are better-armed and better-trained than you who may have a mind to maintain some manner of law and order (preferably with themselves at the top).

Totally Guy
2010-02-10, 03:14 AM
Next thing you know Batman comes chasing you because he thinks you're one of the Joker's minions.

So either you get punched by Batman or you get knocked out. Even with a gas mask you can't win.

Eh? Turns out there's an xkcd for that... (http://xkcd.com/700/)

Sinon
2010-02-10, 07:24 AM
And hope they aren't stockpiling guns and ammo. :smallwink:
I'll need some of those as well.



Not to mention the moral reprehensibility of banditry. You may think "Who cares?" but don't forget that there are people who are better-armed and better-trained than you who may have a mind to maintain some manner of law and order (preferably with themselves at the top).Well, once I have the guns won't I then become at the top of the new hierarchy and the moral authority?

As far as the training, Halo, Call of Duty, occasional paintball and laser tag. And a weekend stalking and slaying assorted cans and bottles in the desert - I'm top notch.

Bouregard
2010-02-10, 12:43 PM
And hope they aren't stockpiling guns and ammo. :smallwink:

Somehow I got a picture of a whole town stockpiling weaponry and as soon as anarchy breaks out they all starve to death and then get plundered by peacefull guys stockpilling emergency rations :P

Solaris
2010-02-10, 07:16 PM
I'll need some of those as well.


Well, once I have the guns won't I then become at the top of the new hierarchy and the moral authority?

As far as the training, Halo, Call of Duty, occasional paintball and laser tag. And a weekend stalking and slaying assorted cans and bottles in the desert - I'm top notch.

I hope you're being sarcastic with that.

TheThan
2010-02-10, 07:19 PM
Another good thing to have is a compass and maps of the area, a GPS will work but youíre reliant on batteries and electronics (in case of say an EMP blast, its done for) so a compass and maps will make a good backup at least. Also you will need knowledge of how to read maps and use a compass for finding your way. I also strongly suggest you waterproof your maps so the ink doesnít run.

They used to make a mileage counter system that was essentially a pair of short cords with beads on them. Iím not 100% keen on how it works but the idea is you count your steps (I think it was every step with one foot) and after so many, you pull a bead down on one of the cords, after all of those are pulled down, you pull a bead down on the second cord and reset the first. I donít recall the numbers but it should prove useful if you need to travel a large distance on foot, and only have a map/compass for guidance.

Sinon
2010-02-10, 07:30 PM
I hope you're being sarcastic with that.

Ah, yeah. (But in my defense, the word crazy does appear in the title of the thread.)

Seriously though: just what calamity are you preparing for? This may have been addressed earlier. Sorry.

At the beginning of the Cold War, there where guys building bomb shelters. There was a real danger, but I question the value of them all the same.

Then you had the survivalists of the late 70ís and 80ís. But then the Cold War ended, and presumably they got jobs.

But the mentality was back with the Militias of the 90ís and (thank you Jesus) the Y2K scare.

So, what is it this time? Spanish Flu? Asteroids? Canadians?

TheThan
2010-02-10, 07:43 PM
So, what is it this time? Spanish Flu? Asteroids? Canadians?

Spanish Flu, Asteroids, CanadiansTexans, mad cow, terror attacks, natural disasters, WWIII, invading aliens, zombie apocalypses, stock market crash, Obama health care failure, you name it.

Sinon
2010-02-10, 08:11 PM
And factoring in the probability of each of these events happening and the severity if it does, stockpiling weapons seems reasonable does it?

Dragero
2010-02-10, 09:01 PM
Okay, so I'm putting up the final touches on my "Serious Business" kit, for whenever a situation gets dire enough that I truly need to stop goofing off.

So far, I have Duct Tape, Cabling, Cloth bandages, portable radio, knife, dried cherries and peaches, jerky, assorted seeds, fertilizer, iron pitons, aluminum paperclips and foil, bleach, acetone, seeds, compound bow, fletcher's kit, glass tubing, cell phone batteries, flint, and a hatchet. The entire pack weighs about 20 lbs.

Now, by my calculation in addition to providing me with sustenance, fire starting, emergency sterilization and wound treatment, communication, construction capacity, utility value, power generation, water purification, planting and harvesting, hunting, climbing equipment, and weaponry, it also allows me to (if absolutely necessary) open doors, poison threats, create a gas mask, dissolve unwanted materials, and build explosives. With at least one alternate tool use for every item on the list, and two ways to accomplish each task. I live in a year round 50-70 degree mediterranean climate, so I'm not worried about cold weather gear, or the like.

I'm not going to explain how it all works, of course, but is anyone else crazy prepared? What have you got in your packs that I'm overlooking? (I'd like to keep it under 30 lbs, though). Any times it's saved your... something? Fun stories?

That is truely awsome......I tip my hat to you sir!

Solaris
2010-02-10, 10:11 PM
Another good thing to have is a compass and maps of the area, a GPS will work but youíre reliant on batteries and electronics (in case of say an EMP blast, its done for) so a compass and maps will make a good backup at least. Also you will need knowledge of how to read maps and use a compass for finding your way. I also strongly suggest you waterproof your maps so the ink doesnít run.

They used to make a mileage counter system that was essentially a pair of short cords with beads on them. Iím not 100% keen on how it works but the idea is you count your steps (I think it was every step with one foot) and after so many, you pull a bead down on one of the cords, after all of those are pulled down, you pull a bead down on the second cord and reset the first. I donít recall the numbers but it should prove useful if you need to travel a large distance on foot, and only have a map/compass for guidance.

That's the gist of it. The problem being how easy it is to lose count - I don't know anyone who uses the pace count when doing land nav.
To make that cord work, you need to know your pace count (how many paces you take in 100 meters), and you have to keep it the same while you walk. You can see how this is a bad idea when you start getting into rougher terrain.


And factoring in the probability of each of these events happening and the severity if it does, stockpiling weapons seems reasonable does it?

The string of natural disasters gives lie to your statement (depending on where you live, of course). Point of fact, up here in Alaska it's not 'crazy' to need to be able to survive a week or longer without outside support - if you're living outside city limits, it's normal. The blackout that took out most of the northeastern United States in 2003? 2006? I forget the year, but it was lights-out for a good week.
Most of us aren't terribly concerned with armed insurrections or alien invasions. It's more along the lines of 'survive for a week or two without outside support'. Even if law and order breaks down, you're not helping by simply stockpiling weapons - you're part of the problem. The solution to that problem is when the guy with the better guns and better training comes in and makes you stop stealing from people who were foolish enough to not arm themselves while they were stockpiling food and water.

THAC0
2010-02-10, 10:24 PM
The string of natural disasters gives lie to your statement (depending on where you live, of course). Point of fact, up here in Alaska it's not 'crazy' to need to be able to survive a week or longer without outside support - if you're living outside city limits, it's normal. The blackout that took out most of the northeastern United States in 2003? 2006? I forget the year, but it was lights-out for a good week.
Most of us aren't terribly concerned with armed insurrections or alien invasions. It's more along the lines of 'survive for a week or two without outside support'.


This. If the '64 Earthquake repeated itself tomorrow, I'd like to be ready for it.

The best emergency preparations are those designed with the area you live in in mind. Up here, I don't have to worry about having to evacuate for hurricanes. I do have to worry about volcanoes and earthquakes.

Jack Squat
2010-02-10, 11:17 PM
And factoring in the probability of each of these events happening and the severity if it does, stockpiling weapons seems reasonable does it?

Have you watched the news covering any disaster, natural or otherwise? Generally speaking, once order breaks down, there's looters. I don't know about you, but I'm not going to just let looters walk off with my stuff, or attack me and then take my stuff. If you have riots, it's nice to be able to protect yourself from those people as well (remember the Rodney King riots?)

Weapons are also useful in the gathering of food (think hunting/trapping, not getting it by force - even though that works too).

Firearms/weapons shouldn't be the only thing you're stockpiling, but they should be included in every stockpile of supplies, even if you only plan on using them for non-combatant type rolls.

Sinon
2010-02-11, 07:17 AM
I'm not questioning the guy who thinks he needs spare flashlight batteries.
http://i48.tinypic.com/mkym3k.jpg
That doesn't look like a fellow getting ready for a blackout.

Jack Squat
2010-02-11, 07:56 AM
One, stick that in a spoiler.

Two, that's not even that much. It might last a couple trips out to the range.

Force
2010-02-11, 07:57 AM
*shrugs* Ammo's not cheap. Easiest way to save cash on ammo when you go to the range fairly frequently is to buy it whenever you can get a few bucks off, which looks like stockpiling. Squinting at it, I'd say that's... somewhere between 500-1500 rounds, depending on what caliber. Depending on the guns used, that's maybe half a year's supply, if the owner goes to the range regularly. So not as much as it looks, really.

EDIT: D'arvit, ninjas!

reorith
2010-02-11, 12:15 PM
*shrugs* Ammo's not cheap. Easiest way to save cash on ammo when you go to the range fairly frequently is to buy it whenever you can get a few bucks off, which looks like stockpiling. Squinting at it, I'd say that's... somewhere between 500-1500 rounds, depending on what caliber. Depending on the guns used, that's maybe half a year's supply, if the owner goes to the range regularly. So not as much as it looks, really.

ignoring the .22lr, the 7.62x25 and the shotshells, that is 1000 rounds of .30-06, 500 rounds of 7.62x39, 40 rounds of .303 british, 400 rounds of .45ACP and 19 rounds of 10mm for a grand total of 1959. oh yeah and one bar of irish springs. ammo for the range is typically purchased a day or two before the trip to the range so i don't have to redo my logs. the easiest way i've found to save on ammo is buying steel cased crud. a twenty round box of remington umc 7.62x39 is $17.83 in my area. a box of wolf wolf is like five and some change.

Adlan
2010-02-11, 12:45 PM
Wow, I'm pleasently surprised to see preppers ITP. Kinda busy, so I've jumped to the back page, please do excuse me

I'm a member of Zombie Squad (http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/), we've got lots of good advice on preppring BOB's (Bug out bags, which sounds like what you are building).

I've got a BOB packed. Bugout routes planned, Various locations I have prearranged to go to (BOL's Bug out locations), and for minor stuff, I'm prepped to stay at my BIL (Bug in Location), with water purifying gear, First Aid equipment and enough food for everyone in the house for about 1 month, depending on what my housemates have.

Nothing wrong with being prepared. Government advocates that it's a good idea, you never know how useful it is (for instance, I can grab my BOB if I'm headed to a friends house overnight). I also use a lot of my gear at festivals.