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Lysander
2010-02-10, 01:27 AM
Here's an idea for a dual progression PrC that allows you to improve your wild shape and your martial arts skill. Ideal if you want to be a karate polar bear.

What do you think in terms of balance? What should the requirements be?


Wild Monk

Requirements
????

Alignment
Any lawful

Hit Die
d8.

Class Skills
The Wild Monk’s class skills are Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Hide, Knowledge (nature), Listen, Move Silently, Spot, Survival, Swim

Skill Points at Each Additional Level
2 + Int modifier.

{table="head"]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1|+0|+2|+0|+2|+1 level Wild Shape/animal companion, +1 level Ki Strike/Flurry of Blows/Unarmed Damage, Wild Ki
2|+1|+3|+0|+3|+1 level Wild Shape/animal companion, +1 level Ki Strike/Flurry of Blows/Unarmed Damage, Wild Flurry
3|+2|+3|+1|+3|+1 level Wild Shape/animal companion, +1 level Ki Strike/Flurry of Blows/Unarmed Damage
4|+3|+4|+1|+4|+1 level Wild Shape/animal companion, +1 level Ki Strike/Flurry of Blows/Unarmed Damage
5|+3|+4|+1|+4|+1 level Wild Shape/animal companion, +1 level Ki Strike/Flurry of Blows/Unarmed Damage, Speak With Animals
6|+4|+5|+2|+5|+1 level Wild Shape/animal companion, +1 level Ki Strike/Flurry of Blows/Unarmed Damage
7|+5|+5|+2|+5|+1 level Wild Shape/animal companion, +1 level Ki Strike/Flurry of Blows/Unarmed Damage, Timeless Body
8|+6+1|+6|+2|+6|+1 level Wild Shape/animal companion, +1 level Ki Strike/Flurry of Blows/Unarmed Damage
9|+6/+1|+6|+3|+6|+1 level Wild Shape, +1 level Ki Strike/Flurry of Blows/Unarmed Damage
10|+7/+2|+7|+3|+7|+1 level Wild Shape/animal companion, +1 level Ki Strike/Flurry of Blows/Unarmed Damage, Wild Self
[/table]

Class Progression
With each level a Wild Monk's Wild Shape ability and animal companion improves as if she had taken another level of druid, and her ki strike, flurry of blows, and unarmed damage improves as if she had taken another level of monk. She does not receive any other benefits or abilities granted by either class.

Wild Ki (Su)
At 1st level a Wild Monk's natural attacks granted by Wild Shape forms benefit from their Ki Strike ability.

Wild Flurry (Su)
At 2nd level a Wild Monk can use flurry of blows in melee combat using the natural attacks of forms they assume with Wild Shape.

Speak With Animals (Su)
At 5th level a Wild Monk can Speak With Animals, as the spell, at will.

Timeless Body (Ex)
After attaining 7th level, a Wild Monk no longer takes ability score penalties for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any penalties she may have already incurred, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the Wild Monk still dies of old age when her time is up.

Wild Self (Su)
At 10th level, a Wild Monk becomes a magical creature. She is treated as an magical beast rather than as a humanoid (or whatever the monk’s creature type was) when beneficial for resisting harmful spells and magical effects. Additionally, the Wild Monk gains damage reduction 10/magic, which allows her to ignore the first 10 points of damage from any attack made by a nonmagical weapon or by any natural attack made by a creature that doesn’t have similar damage reduction. This damage reduction persists when in wild shape.

Latronis
2010-02-10, 02:41 AM
Don't list iterative attacks in PrC's. That's not always going to be when people get them based on BAB.

And you'll probably want to advance some druid spellcasting, if you ever want it taken.

T.G. Oskar
2010-02-10, 02:45 AM
IMHO, it needs too much work. It's mostly a concept more than anything, and that seems to show how little it mingles.

First, consider the alignment restrictions. Monks MUST be Lawful to progress their abilities, and Druids have to be Neutral on at least one side to progress their abilities. Hence, that would only be available for Lawful Neutral characters, since those are the only characters that can progress both Monk and Druid.

Second, the progression is really, really incomplete. Your only abilities are Monk Abilities (which add levels of the PrC for purposes of Flurry of Blows and Unarmed Strike, but it's truly a failure to lack the AC bonus), Ki Strike + Wild Ki (to progress your Ki Strike and allow it to stack on Wild Shape) and Wild Shape (which has a progressive method on its own).

Third, where's the spellcasting? Anyone around here would tell you that you'd rather have a Druid with spellcasting than a Druid with Wild Shape. Wild Shape is one of the Druid's best abilities, but Druids are on the Top 6 of classes because of their spellcasting. If the intention is truly to make it a Druid + Monk hybrid PrC, spellcasting is a must.

Finally, Fist of the Forest. While it mingles Barbarian and Monk (which are far more disparate than the Druid and the Monk), it has abilities that make the class worthwhile. Perhaps a tad TOO worthwhile, but that's opinion mostly.

Oh, and...Timeless Body, which is a shared ability but not an exactly important one.

So, to make this better: what is the intention of the PrC? Allow you to transform into an animal and then go kung-fu on them? It would be better as a Monk PrC whose main ability is to grant an altered version of Wild Shape, perhaps limited to animals. You don't need anything from Druid to make it work; just make it like Bear Warrior (an Alternate Form), and build from there. Remember that the Monk by itself is usually considered weak, and no more worthy than a two-level dip. A Druid that loses spellcasting for progressing a few Monk abilities is more than just gimping itself, since a Druid by itself obliterates the Monk out of the path.

Then, there's the other point: want to make a Druid that learns some kung-fu while at it? Then make it Druid-centric (keep spells, Wild Shape progression, perhaps the remaining immunities) and add the Monk abilities: Improved Natural Attack instead of increased Unarmed Strike damage, a flurry-like ability, all good saves, Wis to AC, etc.

But, what if the real intention is to make it a Monk + Druid hybrid PrC? It has to be attractive enough to make the Druid take Monk levels, or your PrC will have no foundation to hold upon. A Druid will like to keep its spellcasting and 9th level spells, its Wild Shape, and perhaps his animal companion as healthy: you can sacrifice the growth of the animal companion, but not the Wild Shape nor the spellcasting. From there, state a point of Monk in which you would like a Druid to stay (if you say letting them have flurry of blows and evasion, you're going to make many people happy here; still mind, not so much. If it's Diamond Body or the like, you're gonna make many people angry.), make them requirements, and work from there.

I could give ideas, but this seems less of a skeleton and more of a concept that doesn't have a real purpose. It, quite honestly, seems done on a whim, and without a solid intention behind it, it will look bare and weak. This could make a tremendous Monk PrC that evokes the true nature of Kung Fu ("I do not use the Monkey Style on you, I turn into a Monkey and out-style you!"), or a Druid that takes some Monk-ish abilities to a similar effect ("These meditation techniques work wonders! I feel one with nature more than ever; here, let me show you!"). But, as it stands, it looks like forcing a Druid to gimp itself in order to fight like a Monk ("I know kung-fu...even though I lost my connection with nature is horrible and I lost my friend to a dragon to whom I had to run away. At least I can break adamantine while I'm as a plant, so...")

Hope this clears it up. It needs a solid intention, something that can be resumed within a paragraph but that condenses the entire purpose of the PrC, before even working on it.

Latronis
2010-02-10, 03:17 AM
Alternatively if you just want to continue advancing both wild shape and unarmed strikes you could just make it a feat like the other hybrid feats with 2 seperate classes stacking for certain abilities

Lysander
2010-02-10, 09:31 AM
I agree that its weaker than a druid because of the lost spellcasting. Let's face it. Anytime you can choose between punching better or casting level 9 spells, the spells are probably the better option.

What I'm interested in is balancing them against other martial classes. This would make the Wild Monk an option in lower magic campaigns where a DM doesn't want druids to be full casters. The idea is to make a version of the druid who can hold their own simply with wild shape.

Melayl
2010-02-10, 10:23 AM
Not everybody wants to play a spellcasting druid, nor will every game allow one. I think this class, with a little fluff as to why the monk or druid would take levels in the other, is a fine idea.

If anything, I'd possibly also let it advance the monk's AC bonus, and possibly the druids companion HD.

Zom B
2010-02-10, 10:39 AM
http://owlibrary.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/kung_fu_panda.jpg

That is all.

Lysander
2010-02-10, 10:45 AM
I was considering either allowing them to wear light non-metal armor without negating their monk abilities, or giving their normal form (but not wild shape forms) a small natural armor bonus that increases as they level. Advacing their AC bonus also works. What do you think is the best option?

I like the idea of allowing their animal companion to advance. It makes sense.

As for fluff, I envisioned the Wild Monk as a monk who greatly admires the beauty and harmony of nature. They combine a druid's connection with the wild with a monk's meditation and self-discipline. They're natural hermits, usually living off the land in remote areas of the world. Unlike druids they have little power over nature and don't use nature spells, instead they become part of it. If you see a bear sitting cross-legged meditating, it's probably a Wild Monk.

edit: Added Wild Self ability as the capstone. Basically it's the same as perfect self except the monk can count as a magical beast instead of an outsider. Also added a Speak With Animals at level 5, basically as a lesser version of Tongue of the Sun and moon.

Lysander
2010-02-10, 12:35 PM
http://owlibrary.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/kung_fu_panda.jpg

That is all.

Haha. Well yeah. That would be pretty awesome to play.

Milskidasith
2010-02-10, 04:56 PM
Druid is T3 with just wildshape; the design of this class, to be a compentent martial class, is sone just with Druid. This Judy adds more goodies.