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View Full Version : [4e] Give me a [3.X] character, I'll give you a 4e conversion



Inyssius Tor
2010-02-10, 03:13 AM
The title says it all. The idea interests me, and I think some people who chose to stay with 3.X might be interested to see how their character ideas could be translated into 4e by someone who's familiar with the system and all of its supplements (and there have been enough that an awful lot of concepts which were simply not viable in 4e at launch might be easy as pie today, to someone who's been keeping up with the treadmill).

Oh. One more thing.

Please don't fight in this thread.

4e dudes, someone's gonna troll you. Don't rise to the bait. If ya gotta have it out, go outside, don't do it in my pad.

3.X gentlemen (and ladies, of course), some wretched cad might well seek to provoke your wrath. Don't sink to his most undistinguished level. If the bounders cross a line and your honor demands a good caning, 'twould be most unseemly to fight in these premises; please, take it to a more suitable venue.

So. Anyone interested? Come on, surely posting a quick summary of your character concept wouldn't waste too much of your valuable time.

The Corinthian
2010-02-10, 03:17 AM
Great! How much detail do you need? Concept and tier? Class/level breakdown? Complete character sheet? And how much detail will you provide in your answer?

Inyssius Tor
2010-02-10, 03:29 AM
Great! How much detail do you need? Concept and tier? Class/level breakdown? Complete character sheet? And how much detail will you provide in your answer?

:smallsmile:

I'll take anything you see as relevant to the character concept. A rough level estimate is usually going to be relevant, of course, if not always. "Garbage in, garbage out", of course; the longer your input, the more detailed my reply.

I'll provide as much detail as I think I can. Likely that means a character sheet in the now-ubiquitous Character Builder's style, and a couple of paragraphs on why I think those options are relevant and how they'd work in play.

sonofzeal
2010-02-10, 03:57 AM
Okay, here's thee to start, all characters I'm playing right now or are in campaigns on hiatus

(Just for the record, I'm a long-time 3.5 player. I've played 4e once at a con, had some fun, but my network all plays 3.5 and I've seen no reason to switch. I know the absolute basics of 4e, but not what's really possible and what isn't, so this'll be enlightening whatever the result)


Character 1 - Lina Alesia

Build: Human Healer
Special: Vow of Nonviolence/Peace

Necessary parts: Massive healing, both for groups and single targets. Ability to negate and remove just about any negative status condition ever. Strong negotiation skills. Strong supernatural defences (Calm Emotions aura, and Shatter effect on any weapon that strikes her). Significant "nature-y" bend in powers and abilities. Unicorn ally (optional).




Character 2 - Lockhart

Build: Orc Barbarian / Factotum / Champion of Gwynharwyf
Special: Trip-monkey line of feats

Necessary parts: Mix of brain and brawn. Able to look like a Barbarian in a fight, and still be able to deal with traps and basic roguery. Limited magical ability. Able to manipulate and control movement of multiple enemies. Fast and athletic.



Character 3 - D'Cannith

Build: Halfling Artificer / Fleshwarper (houseruled entry)
Special: Homunculus battle-mech

Necessary parts: Able to make just about anything given time and materials, and do it with less of both than anyone else. Dozens and dozens of low level magical items that can be used in useful and creative ways. Strong buffing abilities. Huge out-of-combat utility. Homunculus battle-mech. Extensive self-modification with disturbing grafts and implants. Able to modify the bodies of others, given time and materials.

The Corinthian
2010-02-10, 04:14 AM
There are two characters I'm having a bit of conceptual trouble with:
In 3.5, one was a (human) werewolf TWF ranger/warshaper with a barbarian dip, the other was an elf ranger/fighter/dragon disciple/divine champion, two-handed fighting with a longsword. (Faerun PRC) Both level 22 in 3.5, and while I know it doesn't really map 1-1, they can probably be the same level in 4e.

Now, from what little I know of 4e, except for the "werewolf" and "elf dragon disciple" bits, converting these two should be completely straightforward on the face of it, but the Ranger would end up a striker, and the dragon disciple would fit best as a fighter with skill training in ranger skills, i.e a defender. But in 3.5, their dynamic was the exact opposite. The dragon disciple dealt out the damage, while the werewolf was really tough and tanked. Is there any way to preserve that? And how *do* you do the werewolf/dragon disciple things, anyway? You could make the elf a dragonborn, but *something* should show that he used to be an elf. The elf is freaky strong but has mediocre charisma. The werewolf has 7 Int.

Also, the werewolf's epic destiny should be Demigod. I'm not sure what the dragon disciple's should be.

Vizzerdrix
2010-02-10, 04:40 AM
A gnome Archivist Who goes into Lantaan Artificer (all), Spellfire channeler (half) and crafts all his own gear from level 1 onward.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-02-10, 04:53 AM
Haberdash the Masked (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-16448%20%3C/index.php?t-88633.html).

Ceaon
2010-02-10, 04:56 AM
I switched to 4E, but here's a character concept I've been unable to redesign.

The character is a genie (one of the famous bottled ones). She uses magic to wade into battle, mostly buffing allies but also able to use tricks against the enemies she faces (like transforming them into harmless foes or debuffing them). She used to be the godess Wee Jas (or a 4e equivelant like Melora) who was locked up by another (evil) deity because of her flaw (in Wee Jas' case, vanity) and robbed of a lot of her powers. Although she might be able to fight wth weapons, she refuses to try this, since she trusts completely in magic and despises all other forms of combat. She was hard to hit and even harder to damage.
She is forced to serve whoever owns her genie-bottle (in Wee Jas' case, this was a mirror, representing her vanity).

In 3e, she was a human half-deity Wizard/Sorcerer/Ultimate Magus (which was not optimized, I know, but it was slightly homebrewed to be more or less equal to the rest of the party). She ended the campaign at level 14.
In 4E, I find it hard to choose a deity, find the right class and race and make it work. I was thinking of maybe a deva orb wizard, but she was way tougher than that...

Asbestos
2010-02-10, 04:58 AM
Haberdash the Masked (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-16448%20%3C/index.php?t-88633.html).

Haberdash seems more like theoretical optimization than an 'actual' build to me. I bet a Half-elf bard could make a good run of it though. Might have to use Hybrid rules...

Blackknight1239
2010-02-10, 05:27 AM
Hmm, Well let's try this out.

Build: Human Swashbuckler/Rogue
Special: Took a couple of levels in Swordsage for options. Also was a TWF.

Necessary Parts: Had a pirate-y feel, while still playing like a Rogue. He was also the party's skill monkey, so that should there. Other than that, he like to move around a lot. Getting flanks was important, but he could also fight on his own, with little trouble.

Optimystik
2010-02-10, 06:37 AM
Character 1 - Lina Alesia

Build: Human Healer
Special: Vow of Nonviolence/Peace

Necessary parts: Massive healing, both for groups and single targets. Ability to negate and remove just about any negative status condition ever. Strong negotiation skills. Strong supernatural defences (Calm Emotions aura, and Shatter effect on any weapon that strikes her). Significant "nature-y" bend in powers and abilities. Unicorn ally (optional).

I can help with this one, I think - Divine Power has "Messenger of Peace" (pg. 49) which has the 4e version of Vow of Nonviolence, and an Aura of Peace.

The main difference is that you gain bonuses for using attacks that don't deal damage, but aren't penalized if you are forced to use force - nor is your party.

It's a Cleric PP though, so I'm not quite sure how you'd give it a "nature-y" feel beyond refluffing. Though I suppose it can simply be houseruled in for a shaman or druid...

Da'Shain
2010-02-10, 06:53 AM
I'd actually be very interested to see how this character would translate to 4e:

Sunda Asura
Build: Male Rakshasa Ur-Priest/Mystic Theurge/Abjurant Champion, level 20 (ECL 27)
Mechanical Focus: Heavy emphasis on Control/Debuff Illusion, Enchantment and Necromancy spells, with a few heals and direct damage spells tossed in

Fluff-wise, he's a Rakshasa who escaped from Eberron's rather rigid caste system which held him in place power-wise, and has been working to ascend to the level of the Lords of Dust or a god, whichever comes first, mostly from a desire to show that it's nothing more than the next stage of sentience.

Tokiko Mima
2010-02-10, 07:02 AM
I wanna see the 4e equivalent of a Pixie Glaivelock build. Extremely mobile, invisible weapons platform. Good at ranged attacks, but even more damaging when switching to melee. Able to bypass most defenses and deliver consistant, if not massive, damage. Flight and invisibility at will is a requirement, so it's probably going to be an epic/paragon tier character at minimum.

Race does not have to be pixie (are they even in 4e?), and class does not have to be warlock. I just want to see something that functions and can maneuver in the same manner as the 3.5 version, yet be something I could play in 4e.

Faleldir
2010-02-10, 07:08 AM
I want a Ranger who rides his animal companion.

Kaiyanwang
2010-02-10, 07:16 AM
Ito no Takemaru, a character one of my players is actually using in our gestalt campaign.



Is currently Human Rogue 14 // Psywarrior 7 / Avenger* 6

Formerly a "Crane" spy, he became adpet in psionic arts teached by the Naga.

Powers: Force Screen, Expansion, Body Adjustment, Energy Adaptation, Hustle, Strenght of my Enemy, Empatic Transfer.

Spells: Ebon Eyes, Sniper Shot, True Strike, Shock and Awe, Veil of Shadow, Fell the Greatest Foe, Ice Knife, Find the Gap, Wraith Strike, Arrow Split.

Feats: EWP Kusari-Gama, Weapon Finesse, Deft Opportunist, Vexing Flanker, Adaptable Flanker, Combat Reflexes, Improved Combat Reflexes, Savvy Rogue, Backstab, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Staggering Strike.

Class Features: Sneak Attack, Uncanny Dodge and IUD, Penetrating Strike, Distruptive Attack, Power Points and Psionic manifesting, Poison Use, Death Attack.

Skill Tricks: Twisted Charge, Acrobatic Backstab, Back on Your Feet, NIble Stand.

TeamWork Benefits: Scouting, Group Trance

Wepons: Kusari Gama, Hidden weapons in feet and hands, Arquebus, Yuan ti Bladed Bow, Chakram. Laundry list of self crafted poisons. Laundry list of self-crafted mechanical devices like a gnomish

Relevant Skills: Acrobatic Skills, Sleight of hand, Autoipnosis, Profession: Engineer, Craft poison makin, Craft Trapmaking.


His girlfriend plays 4th. So..







* Yeah, the "joke" lawful assassin. Yeah, it works. I don't accept criticisms on this, in case imagine Ito is Evil instead of LN.

Inyssius Tor
2010-02-10, 07:23 AM
Whoa! I am really surprised at the amount of interest this thread has gotten in such a short time. Working on the concepts sonofzeal and the Corinthian wrote up right now, should have them done... sometime today.


I want a Ranger who rides his animal companion.

Bam!

Conversion 1 - A Ranger Who RIDES His Animal Companion:
Heroic Tier feat: Beast Rider
Prerequisite: Beast Mastery class feature
Benefit: If your beast companion is your size or larger, and at least Medium size, you can ride it as a mount. (This is an exception to the rule that mounts must be no smaller than Large.) You can mount or dismount your beast companion as a move action.

Source: Dr384, "To Walk Unseen Paths". (Came out yesterday. Serendipity!)

Other acceptable answers include judicious use of the Beast Growth ritual to enlarge your beast to Large size (so that it can be ridden without the Beast Rider) or Medium size (so that smaller companions, such as hawks, can be ridden with the Beast Rider feat), optionally augmented with the Vistani Heritage and Vistani Pathfinding feats to allow use of this ritual daily without expending component costs.

BobTheDog
2010-02-10, 08:03 AM
Without getting into CB to actually build the characters, some thoughts:


Character 1 - Lina Alesia

Build: Human Healer
Special: Vow of Nonviolence/Peace

Cleric of Melora (or Corellon, or some other "Nature-y" deity), trade Turn Undead for the Divine Power CD thingy (forget name) that heals a lot, take non-damaging/healing powers and maybe a Shaman multiclass feat to get Nature (the skill) and a spirit (fluffed as Unicorn).


Character 2 - Lockhart

Build: Orc Barbarian / Factotum / Champion of Gwynharwyf
Special: Trip-monkey line of feats

Half-orc is a better option here, due to feats/options available. A DM might be willing to let a full-orc (MM race) use half-orc stuff, though. Anyway, options are:

Full-class barbarian, multiclass Bard (limited magic, roguery). Might be a bit tricky to get the synergy for all your necessary parts (thunder-barb is the most controllery of them and uses Con IIRC) still doable, specially with full-orc as race (Str/Con bonuses).


Character 3 - D'Cannith

Build: Halfling Artificer / Fleshwarper (houseruled entry)
Special: Homunculus battle-mech

Almost simple... Halfling artificer with Alchemist as a feat, there are some nifty feats on Eberron PG to make item-making easier. Familiar (homunculus) with some familiar enhancing feats to make it more "battle-y". Eberron Paragon Path that "turns your into warforged" for the grafts/implants. Only the "modify bodies of others" is not so easy to do.

Saph
2010-02-10, 09:34 AM
Aiden

Arcane caster with a huge variety of spells and SLAs usable spontaneously. Needs to have as many spells as possible that can be used in a combat situation (10-minute casting time rituals aren't going to cut it).

My 3.5 version has access to about 40 spells at level 9. If you could get an arcanist build with 50+ at a similar level, that would be nice, but 40+ is good enough.

SaintRidley
2010-02-10, 09:54 AM
I'm going to be mean.

Necromancer. Army of undead followers sort. Race doesn't matter.

Dread Necromancer 8/Pale Master 10/Archmage 2 as a very general idea of what it looked like in 3.5, Corpsecrafter feats and a Lich transformation at 20.


I won't throw an undead uttercold assault mage at you yet. That'd just be evil.

illyrus
2010-02-10, 12:14 PM
Dread Necromancer 8/Pale Master 10/Archmage 2 as a very general idea of what it looked like in 3.5, Corpsecrafter feats and a Lich transformation at 20.

I apologise if I'm stealing the OPs thunder but I've actually thought about this for a little bit on my own. With a wizard using the level 15 power soul puppets with a dropped saving throw (where it's impossible for the undead to make it) you can feasibly get an unlimited number of non-solo undead under your command as long as your DM throws some undead your way every few days (so you can keep building up your army). Stick on arch-lich (or if your DM is feeling crazy go with the lich ritual) and go with refluffed revenant race with some racial feats and you'd be about done with the undead lich caster controlling undead portion of it.

drengnikrafe
2010-02-10, 12:30 PM
When I saw this thread, my immediate reaction was "Build something that plays as if it were better than every member of the party at it's own game without infinite loops and absue thereof."

That's really mean, though.

So, instead, I'll do this.

Kywynam McElroy. Has the mental bonuses of a Rhodes Elf (+2 Int, +2 Cha), but the physical bonuses/penalties, and form, of a halfling (+2 Dex, -2 Str).
Wizard (Evoker) 7 / Metamage 1.
Knows 2/3rds of the evocation spells, and always prepares all spell slots with evocation spells exept for 1 utility spell (fly, grease, etc). Had 32 action points, allowing him free access to sudden metamagics almost at will. Leveled an entire battlefield in 1 round once (~70 enemies).
Metamage level (homebrewed PrC) gave him Maximize Spell at -1 cost (so he prepared every 4th level spot with a maximized fireball), and sudden maximize spell 1/day.
Likes to burn things.

Artanis
2010-02-10, 12:43 PM
Kywynam McElroy. Has the mental bonuses of a Rhodes Elf (+2 Int, +2 Cha), but the physical bonuses/penalties, and form, of a halfling (+2 Dex, -2 Str).
Wizard (Evoker) 7 / Metamage 1.

So he basically spends the whole time blowing up the entire battlefield?

Sounds like a 4e Sorcerer. They're arcane Strikers who are really big on AoEs.

illyrus
2010-02-10, 12:52 PM
Aiden

Arcane caster with a huge variety of spells and SLAs usable spontaneously. Needs to have as many spells as possible that can be used in a combat situation (10-minute casting time rituals aren't going to cut it).

My 3.5 version has access to about 40 spells at level 9. If you could get an arcanist build with 50+ at a similar level, that would be nice, but 40+ is good enough.

A tome (as in the magic item) using wizard can feasibly carry around many of the wizard spells in the game, ready to convert their prepared spells to whatever daily or utility spell is in the tome. Also they can once per encounter convert an encounter spell. Add in deva wizard with the right feats and you'd have 25-30 spells in your spellbook base and with the tomes you could get the other 10-15 with some work.

Sallera
2010-02-10, 12:52 PM
Sure, I'll bite.

Ferrith (http://pifro.com/pro/view.php?id=3213)
That particular instance of him is 15th level, but the build should ideally be viable at any level (past perhaps 1-5ish). The important aspects are the ability to scribe and use any scroll, arcane, divine, or artificer, of up to two levels higher than a wizard of that level could cast, without a roll required. The basic concept is to have a utility spell available for just about every conceivable situation. It's essentially designed for being able to actually deal with all those times when the DM tosses something especially odd or contrived at you. (In other words, the only character you're ever likely to find that carries around a scroll of Ethereal Mount). The other important part is the fey connection, but from what I've heard, that's not difficult to replicate in 4e.

AgentPaper
2010-02-10, 12:54 PM
Aiden

Arcane caster with a huge variety of spells and SLAs usable spontaneously. Needs to have as many spells as possible that can be used in a combat situation (10-minute casting time rituals aren't going to cut it).

My 3.5 version has access to about 40 spells at level 9. If you could get an arcanist build with 50+ at a similar level, that would be nice, but 40+ is good enough.

Wizard with tome of readiness. You won't have 40+ spells ever, unless you count rituals, but "caster with 40+ spells" isn't a character concept, whereas "caster with a lot of spells compared to normally" is, and the wizard does this handily. There's also a few more tricks you can pull to get more daily powers to choose from at the start of the day, instead of the default 2 per power level.


Sure, I'll bite.

Ferrith (http://pifro.com/pro/view.php?id=3213)
That particular instance of him is 15th level, but the build should ideally be viable at any level (past perhaps 1-5ish). The important aspects are the ability to scribe and use any scroll, arcane, divine, or artificer, of up to two levels higher than a wizard of that level could cast, without a roll required. The basic concept is to have a utility spell available for just about every conceivable situation. It's essentially designed for being able to actually deal with all those times when the DM tosses something especially odd or contrived at you. (In other words, the only character you're ever likely to find that carries around a scroll of Ethereal Mount). The other important part is the fey connection, but from what I've heard, that's not difficult to replicate in 4e.

That one's easy. Wizard or artificer that spends a lot of money buying rituals. I'm not sure what you mean by fey-connection, but Eladrin are fey creatures, if that's all you need.

Artanis
2010-02-10, 12:59 PM
Sure, I'll bite.

Ferrith (http://pifro.com/pro/view.php?id=3213)

In addition to what AgentPaper said, you should take a look at KG's guide to the 4e version of Batman. I'll see if I can rustle up a link to edit in.



Edit: Here we go

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97322

Kylarra
2010-02-10, 12:59 PM
So, instead, I'll do this.

Kywynam McElroy. Has the mental bonuses of a Rhodes Elf (+2 Int, +2 Cha), but the physical bonuses/penalties, and form, of a halfling (+2 Dex, -2 Str).
Wizard (Evoker) 7 / Metamage 1.
Knows 2/3rds of the evocation spells, and always prepares all spell slots with evocation spells exept for 1 utility spell (fly, grease, etc). Had 32 action points, allowing him free access to sudden metamagics almost at will. Leveled an entire battlefield in 1 round once (~70 enemies).
Metamage level (homebrewed PrC) gave him Maximize Spell at -1 cost (so he prepared every 4th level spot with a maximized fireball), and sudden maximize spell 1/day.
Likes to burn things.Halflings get +2 Dex, +2 Cha in 4e so I guess...

Halfling Sorcerer with 13 int/wis, multiclassing to wizard and taking enlarge spell and destructive wizardry feats, specializing in area attacks to abuse the two of them together.

Sipex
2010-02-10, 01:00 PM
When does the PH3 come out? Even more options will be available then.

Blackfang108
2010-02-10, 01:02 PM
I wanna see the 4e equivalent of a Pixie Glaivelock build. Extremely mobile, invisible weapons platform. Good at ranged attacks, but even more damaging when switching to melee. Able to bypass most defenses and deliver consistant, if not massive, damage. Flight and invisibility at will is a requirement, so it's probably going to be an epic/paragon tier character at minimum.

Race does not have to be pixie (are they even in 4e?), and class does not have to be warlock. I just want to see something that functions and can maneuver in the same manner as the 3.5 version, yet be something I could play in 4e.

I don't think Invisibility at-Will is possible.

Barring that:
Mostly Melee; able to fight at range. Consistent damage over massive damage.

At-will flight: You'll need Avenger in there somewhere.


OK, here we go:
TWF Ranger Multi:Avenger PP: Favored Soul (The Only Combat-useful at-will flight thus far). Carry a bow and select at-wills that can be used Ranged AND TWF(there are several). Be a gnome to turn Invisible when an opponent hits you 1/enc.

Edit: Also, train in Stealth.

Kylarra
2010-02-10, 01:05 PM
I wanna see the 4e equivalent of a Pixie Glaivelock build. Extremely mobile, invisible weapons platform. Good at ranged attacks, but even more damaging when switching to melee. Able to bypass most defenses and deliver consistant, if not massive, damage. Flight and invisibility at will is a requirement, so it's probably going to be an epic/paragon tier character at minimum.

Race does not have to be pixie (are they even in 4e?), and class does not have to be warlock. I just want to see something that functions and can maneuver in the same manner as the 3.5 version, yet be something I could play in 4e.Flight at will is kind of difficult til epic, but ...

Either hybrid Rogue|warlock with hybrid talent shadow walk and fleeting ghost utility2, or warlock multiclassing to rogue to take the utility. Unless they errata'd it, I believe that gives you the closest thing to all day invisibility, assuming you keep rolling decent stealth checks.

Draz74
2010-02-10, 01:05 PM
When does the PH3 come out? Even more options will be available then.

Mid-March.

sonofzeal
2010-02-10, 01:06 PM
Cleric of Melora (or Corellon, or some other "Nature-y" deity), trade Turn Undead for the Divine Power CD thingy (forget name) that heals a lot, take non-damaging/healing powers and maybe a Shaman multiclass feat to get Nature (the skill) and a spirit (fluffed as Unicorn).

How does this fare on the "removing negative status conditions" end? I'm not sure how 4e handles that. Currently Lina in 3.5e can cure Paralysis, Disease, Fear, Poison, moral effects, pain effects, Blindness/Deafness, Fatigue/Exhaustion, Nausea, Curses, Ability Damage, Ability Drain, Negative Levels, Insanity, Confusion, Enchantments, impediments to movement, lingering effects of torture, hunger/thirst, drowning, hostile planar environment effects, class feature loss due to violation of a code, magical alignment change, and Death.

I know hitpoint damage can be healed quickly and easily in 4e, but how about the rest of it? I don't expect everything to be there, but I'd want a similar sort of theme.

Artanis
2010-02-10, 01:15 PM
How does this fare on the "removing negative status conditions" end? I'm not sure how 4e handles that. Currently Lina in 3.5e can cure Paralysis, Disease, Fear, Poison, moral effects, pain effects, Blindness/Deafness, Fatigue/Exhaustion, Nausea, Curses, Ability Damage, Ability Drain, Negative Levels, Insanity, Confusion, Enchantments, impediments to movement, lingering effects of torture, hunger/thirst, drowning, hostile planar environment effects, class feature loss due to violation of a code, magical alignment change, and Death.

I know hitpoint damage can be healed quickly and easily in 4e, but how about the rest of it? I don't expect everything to be there, but I'd want a similar sort of theme.

A lot of those don't exist or are irrelevant, and most (almost all, actually) of the rest are Save Ends or shorter. That leaves...ah...

Hunger/Thirst: the Nature skill can be used to forage for food and presumably water.
Death: Raise Dead ritual
Disease: Cure Disease ritual and/or the Heal skill
Lingering effects of torture: Sounds like RP
Hostile planar environment effects: I'd have to look this sort of stuff up, but can probably be handled by skills and/or rituals
Curses and Enchantments: Probably a ritual (if these have an equivalent in 4e)
Drowning: Do you mean "is currently drowning", or "is likely to be in a situation to drown soon", or what?

Yakk
2010-02-10, 01:15 PM
Wizard with tome of readiness. You won't have 40+ spells ever, unless you count rituals, but "caster with 40+ spells" isn't a character concept, whereas "caster with a lot of spells compared to normally" is, and the wizard does this handily. There's also a few more tricks you can pull to get more daily powers to choose from at the start of the day, instead of the default 2 per power level.
Don't forget Magistar.

A Magistar can cast 2 rituals/day as standard actions.

There are far more than 40 rituals.

Also note that many tomes "store" spells in them. As a daily free action you can swap your daily spells for spells in a tome.

A wizard can wield 3 tomes at the same time (using the tomestand familiar). With 2 spells in each that is 6 additional spells. Add in quickdraw feat, and you can swap tomes out of your bag of holding.

So now we are at:
Every ritual in the game
Nearly every daily spell in the game.
(note: the above is limited by cost. A level 29 daily spell in a tome is expensive, even at level 30).

Improved Tome of Readiness lets you stuff daily/utility powers into a pocked from your spellbook. You already have an encounter attack power in there.

4 encounter powers. 4 daily powers. 7 utility powers. 1 tome power. 1 Improved tome power. 6 powers stored in books. 2 uses of any ritual as a standard action/day. 2 at-wills.

We are now at 23 normal wizard spells, plus every ritual you can afford, that can be used at a drop of a hat. Add in 3 wizard cantrips and 2 at-wills and we have hit 28, plus every ritual in the book, as an option.

Beyond that, you can carry wands with you (using encounter attack powers as daily magic item uses), you can carry extra tomes with you (each storing up to 2 daily attack powers which you can swap for the ones you have up). Quickdraw is a good plan (you can replace the tomestand familiar with a disembodied hand familiar, which proviedes you with an improved version of quickdraw).

Now, are there any racial feats that allow for swapping of powers around for arcane classes. Paragon paths?

Kylarra
2010-02-10, 01:20 PM
How does this fare on the "removing negative status conditions" end? I'm not sure how 4e handles that. Currently Lina in 3.5e can cure Paralysis, Disease, Fear, Poison, moral effects, pain effects, Blindness/Deafness, Fatigue/Exhaustion, Nausea, Curses, Ability Damage, Ability Drain, Negative Levels, Insanity, Confusion, Enchantments, impediments to movement, lingering effects of torture, hunger/thirst, drowning, hostile planar environment effects, class feature loss due to violation of a code, magical alignment change, and Death.

I know hitpoint damage can be healed quickly and easily in 4e, but how about the rest of it? I don't expect everything to be there, but I'd want a similar sort of theme.The majority can actually be dealt with by Remove Affliction or Raise Dead or I guess skill checks, but uh, versatile channeler would allow you to pick up the Paladin's Divine Mettle channel divinity power which would let you force a save 1/encounter.

Hmm, it breaks your vow of NV, but sacred flame allows you to throw out saving throws within LoS as long as you keep hitting enemies with it.
Divine Aid (utility 2) gives another saving throw, same as divine mettle.
Hymn of Resurgence (Enc 3) grants a saving throw or 5 THP to allies in burst 5.

So with 1 feat investment, you could be throwing out beneficial saves 3/encounter, more if you're willing to hit people with holy fire.

Lamech
2010-02-10, 01:25 PM
Hmm... my most recent 3.5 character: Kobold psion 5/archaic initiate 7.

Fought by transforming into a hydra and wading into melee with buff, blasting stuff with energy or breaking stuffs mind. Could fly all day. Could use the supernatural ablities of what it transformed into.

DSCrankshaw
2010-02-10, 01:30 PM
Cleric of Melora (or Corellon, or some other "Nature-y" deity), trade Turn Undead for the Divine Power CD thingy (forget name) that heals a lot, take non-damaging/healing powers and maybe a Shaman multiclass feat to get Nature (the skill) and a spirit (fluffed as Unicorn).

Cleric/shaman is probably the way to go with this. The spirit can have any shape you want, so it can easily look like a unicorn. I would add the feat Pacifist Healer--it improves your healing, but you're stunned if you deal damage to an enemy at less that half hp. Fortunately, the cleric comes with a whole set of prayers that do no damage.

The feat Merciful Power allows anyone receiving Healer's Mercy (mass healing channel divinity, but you're weakened) to make a saving throw.

Artanis
2010-02-10, 01:36 PM
*looks up more stuff to add to what others have said*

Note that Raise Dead and Remove Affliction are both based on the Heal skill, which is a Cleric class skill.

Endure Elements might count as removing bad planar effects in a few cases, and is based on your choice of Arcana or Nature, the latter of which is a Shaman class skill should you MC into it.

There's a few Cleric powers here and there that suppress/transfer/whatever various status effects, and a level 22 utility power that completely removes Save Ends effects (it's a daily, but still).

Sipex
2010-02-10, 01:38 PM
Hmm... my most recent 3.5 character: Kobold psion 5/archaic initiate 7.

Fought by transforming into a hydra and wading into melee with buff, blasting stuff with energy or breaking stuffs mind. Could fly all day. Could use the supernatural ablities of what it transformed into.

This may require PHB3 since psions come in then.

The transforming into a hydra bit could be refluffed druid possibly.

sonofzeal
2010-02-10, 01:43 PM
A lot of those don't exist or are irrelevant, and most (almost all, actually) of the rest are Save Ends or shorter.
See, and that doesn't work for me. If I'm playing Lina and someone's got some horrible nastiness on them, I want things she can DO for them, rapidly and effectively. As she stands in 3.5, she can pretty much cancel out any single action most villains can take, often without even having to roll. There's a few she can't cope with yet (dazzled, dazed, stunned), can't deal with multi-target debuffs well, and is susceptible to debuffs that prevent actions herself.

Anyway, the point is that a large part of her combat roll is the ability to negate adverse conditions (up to and including "dead") as fast as they can be acquired. Waiting for "Save Ends" doesn't cut it. Relegating it to a long-casting-time Ritual is frustrating, too. Can anything be done about this?



Drowning: Do you mean "is currently drowning", or "is likely to be in a situation to drown soon", or what?
"Deep Breath: Your lungs are filled with air." We expanded the Healer spell list using Spell Compendium and a few other books, if you're curious how that spell got there. I'm not sure if she can prevent future drowning, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's hidden there somewhere.

Sallera
2010-02-10, 01:44 PM
That one's easy. Wizard or artificer that spends a lot of money buying rituals. I'm not sure what you mean by fey-connection, but Eladrin are fey creatures, if that's all you need.


In addition to what AgentPaper said, you should take a look at KG's guide to the 4e version of Batman. I'll see if I can rustle up a link to edit in.
Edit: Here we go

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97322

Interesting, but doesn't look like it really manages it. Does 4e not have a scroll equivalent? If he only has access to his own power list and expensive command-word items, it doesn't really work... but then again, having heard how horrible rituals are in 4e, even from fans of it, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. Still, that Magistar thing looks like it might work, if you could figure out some way to grant access to other class lists... *shrug*

Kylarra
2010-02-10, 01:45 PM
4e has wands which allow you to use an encounter power 1/day, so there's your scroll equivalent.

sonofzeal
2010-02-10, 01:46 PM
The majority can actually be dealt with by Remove Affliction or Raise Dead or I guess skill checks, but uh, versatile channeler would allow you to pick up the Paladin's Divine Mettle channel divinity power which would let you force a save 1/encounter.

Hmm, it breaks your vow of NV, but sacred flame allows you to throw out saving throws within LoS as long as you keep hitting enemies with it.
Divine Aid (utility 2) gives another saving throw, same as divine mettle.
Hymn of Resurgence (Enc 3) grants a saving throw or 5 THP to allies in burst 5.

So with 1 feat investment, you could be throwing out beneficial saves 3/encounter, more if you're willing to hit people with holy fire.
By "throwing out saving throws", you mean giving an ally a free instant reroll against a "save ends" power? That does help.

You'll have to explain what THP means though, I'm not that up on 4e yet.

Blackfang108
2010-02-10, 01:50 PM
By "throwing out saving throws", you mean giving an ally a free instant reroll against a "save ends" power? That does help.

You'll have to explain what THP means though, I'm not that up on 4e yet.

Not a reroll. A separate roll, which only has an effect if it succeeds. (Failure conditions only apply if you fail your end of turn ST.) So it's a free chance to save against an effect. (Some powers, mostly Epic cause instant success. there aren't many of these that I can think of.

Also Temporary Hit Points.

Edit: add and spelling.

Artanis
2010-02-10, 02:13 PM
See, and that doesn't work for me. If I'm playing Lina and someone's got some horrible nastiness on them, I want things she can DO for them, rapidly and effectively. As she stands in 3.5, she can pretty much cancel out any single action most villains can take, often without even having to roll. There's a few she can't cope with yet (dazzled, dazed, stunned), can't deal with multi-target debuffs well, and is susceptible to debuffs that prevent actions herself.
You aren't going to be able to negate enemy actions like that. You can do it quite a bit if you really go for it, but you can't get enough to do nothing but that.


By saying that some don't exist or are irrelevant, I mean:
--Ability damage, ability drain, negative levels, and class feature loss due to breaking a code don't exist in 4e. You don't have to worry about being able to cure something that literally will never ever happen :smallwink:
--I can't think of anything that will magically change an alignment, but even if there is/will be, there's effectively nothing mechanical related to it.
--I don't think there's named equivalents for 3.5's insanity/confusion and nausea status effects, but I do think there's an occasional effect here and there that winds up being similar. They aren't common enough to get a specific name though (they're described by the power that uses them).


When I mention Save Ends effects, it's because there's a lot of things that, one way or another, take care of them. Clerics get a high-level daily utility power, for instance, that can instantly clear all Save Ends effects off of somebody. Pretty much all Leaders have something that can give free saving throws or help saving throws or whatever.



Anyway, the point is that a large part of her combat roll is the ability to negate adverse conditions (up to and including "dead") as fast as they can be acquired. Waiting for "Save Ends" doesn't cut it. Relegating it to a long-casting-time Ritual is frustrating, too. Can anything be done about this?

Effects in 4e can be put in two categories: short-term effects that you want to get rid of quickly, and long-term effects where waiting an extra ten minutes doesn't really matter. You use rituals for the latter, and the sorts of powers I mention above for the former.



"Deep Breath: Your lungs are filled with air." We expanded the Healer spell list using Spell Compendium and a few other books, if you're curious how that spell got there. I'm not sure if she can prevent future drowning, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's hidden there somewhere.

Gonna have to fish 'em out of the water, I guess. That's all I can think of. :smallfrown:

Sipex
2010-02-10, 03:25 PM
Dead can't be healed on the fly either too (requires an hour ritual), just a note, but it is harder to die so that's a tradeoff.

Yakk
2010-02-10, 03:26 PM
Dead can't be healed on the fly either too (requires an hour ritual), just a note, but it is harder to die so that's a tradeoff.
Magistar Epic Destiny. Twice per day can cast a ritual as a standard action. :-)

Sipex
2010-02-10, 03:43 PM
Magistar Epic Destiny. Twice per day can cast a ritual as a standard action. :-)

Oh right, hah.

What book is that in?

ericgrau
2010-02-10, 03:49 PM
Here's the mage I refused to bring into 4e, if a campaign switched to it. I would just create a new character from scratch.

Miskul, battlefield control sorcerer, mild cold theme fluff. Very little in the way of damage spells, but has some and will get more. Damage is just secondary. Favorite spells include sleet storm and wall of ice. Forces baddies out of combat and then they slowly funnel back into combat so that the party can easily pick off enemies 1 by 1. Also loves a lot of oddball spells. Carries a million and one scrolls so that he has a spell for every occasion. Some players forget which spells are actually on my spell list. Also likes strange applications of his handful of known spells (and picks them with such versatility in mind). For example: a swarm of low HP baddies in melee with my party? "Empowered, metamagic rod maximized magic missile, 1 missile per target"

Volkov
2010-02-10, 03:51 PM
Behold, the Killer penguin! Tremble!

Size/Type: Huge Magical Beast.
Hit Dice:3,000d10+1,200,000(1,204,500)
Initiative: N/A Always goes first.
Speed: 1,000 feet, 5,000 swim, 500 burrow, 15,000 fly.
Armor class:908 all(+300 natural armor, +200 Deflection, +50 Profane, +50 Luck, +50 divine, +50 sacred, +50 insight +150 dexterity -2 size)
Base Attack/Grapple:+3,000/+3,408
Attack: Peck +3,398(100d%+400)
Full attack: Peck +3,398(100d%+400 17-20 x4), Two kicks +3,398(50d%+325 17-20 x4), Bite +3,398(100d%+325 17-20 x4), Two wing +3,398(50d%+325 17-20 x4), two stamps +3,398(150d%+325 17-20 x6) two slam +3,398(250d%+325 17-20 x4) Super Peck(250d%+550 17-20 x12) 16 quills+3,398(25d%+325 17-20 x4) can be thrown, eight tentacle slaps +3,398(25d%+325 17-20 x4, eight tentacle rakes +3,398(25d%+325 17-20 x4), tail slap +3,398(200d%+400 17-20 x4), gore +3,398 (250d%+400 17-20 x10)
Space/Reach: 15/15(30 for peck, bite, gore and super peck. 45 feet for tail slap, 60 feet for tentacles)
Special attacks:Super peck, Improved grapple, swallow whole, trample, powerful charge, screech, rake, rend, pounce, earthquake, Heat beams, Frost breath, quill fire, ability drain, corrosive spit, lightning bolts Spell-like abilities, spells, Turn or rebuke undead, outsiders, elements, elementals, constrict, tail sweep, crush.
Special qualities: Immunity to epic magic, Spell Resistance 25,000, Regeneration 50,000, Fast healing 100,000, immunity to non-descript energy types, fire resistance 25,000, cold immunity, electricity resistance 25,000, acid resistance 25,000, sonic immunity. DR 300/+50 good, chaotic, adamantine, bludgeoning, and piercing. Immunity to death effects, poison, disease, energy drain, prismatic effects, polymorph, blindness, deafness, daze effects, stun effects, paralysis, petrification, mind affecting effects, unwilling teleportation, critical hits, sneak attacks, alignment related effects, ability damage, ability drain, Transdimensional attacks, true sight, darkvision 10,000 feet, low light vision x 50, scent, keen scent 750,000 feet, blind sight 500,000 feet, blind sense 1,500,000 feet, tremor sense 2,250,000 feet.
Skills:1,823,392 skill points to spend.
Feats:1,150 to spend.
Saves: Fort+2,400, Ref+2,400, Will+1,400.
Abilities:Str 310, Dex 310, Con 310, Int 310, Wis 310, Cha 310.
Environment: any.
CR: A lot.
Organization: Any
Treasure: Quadruple Standard.
Alignment: Lawful evil.
Advancement:3,001-9,000(Huge), 9,001-27,000(Gargantuan), 27,001-81,000(Colossal), 81,001+(Colossal+)

Spell-like abilities: A Killer penguin can choose up to three thousand spells for it's spell like abilities. Caster level is 3,000, Save DC is 1,650+ spell level.
Spells: A Killer penguin can cast spells as if it had 3,000 levels in Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, or Wizard.
Turn or Rebuke: A Killer penguin can choose to turn and destroy or rebuke, and command, undead, outsiders, elemental, or any creature with an elemental subtype as a level 3,000 cleric.
Energy attacks: All of a killer penguins energy attacks deal 500d% damage, lightning bolts and heat beams are 1,000 foot lines, frost breath, corossive spit, and Sonic screech are 375 foot cones. All DC's are 1,650
Regeneration: Only a weapon forged in the future by a sleep walking deity, which was then thrown into the far realm and later retrieved can deal lethal damage to a killer penguin.
Super peck: This attack can use up to twice the Killer penguins strength modifier.
Quills: These can be thrown up to a hundred range increcements, each being 1,000 feet long.
Low light vision: A Killer penguin can see 50 times better than a human can.
Earthquake: By stomping on the ground, a killer penguin can create an immensely powerful earthquake, one with ten thousand times the radius of effect of the spell, in addition any time the earthquake encounters water, it creates a tsunami.
Constrict:A killer penguin that successfully attacks an opponent with it's tail or tentacle slaps/rakes can begin to squeeze, dealing 250D%+475 damage per round.
Rend: A Killer penguin that hits with both kicks can tear at the flesh, dealing 100d%+475 damage.
Rake: A killer penguin that hits with both kicks or two tentacle rakes can claw at it's enemy, dealing 100D%+475 damage.
Tail sweep: A killer penguin can sweep it's tail in a full circle with a radius of 45 feet, dealing tail slap damage to any it hits and knocking them away as if they were hit by an awesome blow, Reflex DC 1,650 for half damage.
Crush: A killer penguin that pins or lands on an enemy can begin to crush it with it's weight, dealing 300D%+550 damage per round.
Trample: A Huge killer penguin can trample any enemy that is large or smaller, dealing 200d%+475 damage, reflex DC of 1,650 for half, an attack of oppurtunity can be taken at a -4 penalty, but this forfeits a chance of a reflex saving throw.
Swallow whole: A penguin that successfully grapples with it's mouth can swallow an enemy, where it will take 100d%+400 bludgeoning damage per round, as well as taking 25d% damage from flesh-eating bacteria per round, in addition, they will take 50d% of each energy type per round. One can cut their way out of the stomach by dealing 1,000 damage to the gizzard (AC 310) any hole created heals over rapidly and is closed by muscular action. Alternatively one can attempt to attempt another grapple check to get out, or they can make a DC 40 will save to go through the Scenic route through the digestive system, any one who takes this route will emerge from the bird's rear end within one round, and will be nauseated for three rounds, and be sickened for six more. A Huge Killer penguin can hold 2 medium creatures, 8 small, 512 tiny, 512^3 diminuitive creatures, and 512^3^3 fine in it's gizzard.
Immune to Epic magic: All epic level spells are useless against it, whether they are used directly or indirectly.
Immune to non-descript energy: any form of energy attack that lacks a specific type deals no damage to the killer penguin.



So what is his 4e version?

Gametime
2010-02-10, 04:46 PM
Nitpick: The Killer Penguin is not a character. He has no level adjustment! :smalltongue:

erikun
2010-02-10, 04:47 PM
Miskul, battlefield control sorcerer, mild cold theme fluff.
Just the general cold-based Wizard will work for this. Most cold-based spells either slow, immobilize, or create hazardous terrain, forcing enemies around or keeping them away from the party. Bigby's Icy Grasp, Ice Tomb, and Ice Wall fit the theme perfectly, locking down opponents while playing with the ice theme. Throw in a few other spells, such as Thunderwave and Evard's Black Tentacles, to complete the theme. Wizard/Druid (for Tundra Wind) or Wizard/Warlock (Tendrils of Thuban) make good multiclass options.

If you want to go melee instead, a Warden with a Frost Longsword is almost like a melee Wizard.

Yakk made a big list of tomes/wands for backup spells just a bit earlier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7860997&postcount=34), so I won't repeat it.

--

Alright, a few of my ideas. I've been wondering how well they can translate into 4e.

Prism Mage
Sorcerer/Rainbow Servant/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil

This is a character who loves their prismatic spells. Color Spray, Hypnotic Pattern, Prismatic Spray; even Chaos Hammer thanks to the Rainbow Servant. Wears a Robe of Scintillating Colors and definitely enjoys getting noticed on the street. Basically, I'd like a spellcaster who can throw around the flashiest spells available.

Ultimate Magus
Bard/Wizard/Ultimate Magus

Besides having lots of spells, I picked up Silent Spell, Still Spell, Invisible Spell and Disguise Spell. While most of the time I spent casting spells normally, this also gave me the option of disguising my spellcasting on-the-fly, either by making the casting not obvious, making the spell not obvious, or outright hiding that I was spellcasting in the first place.

Arcane Heirophant Rider
Wizard/Druid/Arcane Heirophant

While a spellcaster, this guy spent most of his time buffing himself (and allies) before hopping onto his familiar/companion and charging into battle with a lance. When the fight was over, he could "disappear" just by removing the barding and wildshaping into a similar animal. I'm not too sure how well a general Ranger with the Beast Rider feat from earlier would act at this, though.

Volkov
2010-02-10, 04:48 PM
Nitpick: The Killer Penguin is not a character. He has no level adjustment! :smalltongue:

If he did, he would have no need of character levels. :P

Kylarra
2010-02-10, 04:49 PM
Behold, the Killer penguin! Tremble!
So what is his 4e version?
1. Hit Dm with book.
2. Has he stopped talking about penguins?
if yes, go to 3
if no, go to 1.
3. Solved
Nested spoiler, that's not a character, that's a monster, but anyone could tag arbitrary abilities onto a monster easily thanks to the monster builder

erikun
2010-02-10, 04:53 PM
Behold, the Killer penguin! Tremble!
So what is his 4e version?
I think just about any Level 3000 creature would be appropriate.

Kylarra
2010-02-10, 04:56 PM
I think just about any Level 3000 creature would be appropriate.Yeah, like I said, it's easy enough to just change numbers on a monster.

Mando Knight
2010-02-10, 05:02 PM
Alright, a few of my ideas. I've been wondering how well they can translate into 4e.

Prism Mage
Sorcerer/Rainbow Servant/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil

This is a character who loves their prismatic spells. Color Spray, Hypnotic Pattern, Prismatic Spray; even Chaos Hammer thanks to the Rainbow Servant. Wears a Robe of Scintillating Colors and definitely enjoys getting noticed on the street. Basically, I'd like a spellcaster who can throw around the flashiest spells available.
This could be a straight-up Chaos Sorcerer. Playing with colors is their favorite thing to do. At the cost of damage output, you can even MC (or Hybrid) with Wizard to grab the prismatic-line spells in their spell list. The Int requirement for the latter would hurt your Dex, lowering your damage output.

Ultimate Magus
Bard/Wizard/Ultimate Magus

Besides having lots of spells, I picked up Silent Spell, Still Spell, Invisible Spell and Disguise Spell. While most of the time I spent casting spells normally, this also gave me the option of disguising my spellcasting on-the-fly, either by making the casting not obvious, making the spell not obvious, or outright hiding that I was spellcasting in the first place.
Illusion Wizard, multiclassed into Bard... or vice-versa. The latter lets you also dip into Warlock and Sorcerer for their powers and has a Leader slant, while the former is primarily controller. Disguising spells is mostly flavor, but could be hidden with a Bluff or Stealth check probably. You should ask the DM about specific adjudications on that part.

Arcane Heirophant Rider
Wizard/Druid/Arcane Heirophant

While a spellcaster, this guy spent most of his time buffing himself (and allies) before hopping onto his familiar/companion and charging into battle with a lance. When the fight was over, he could "disappear" just by removing the barding and wildshaping into a similar animal. I'm not too sure how well a general Ranger with the Beast Rider feat from earlier would act at this, though.
This one's a little odd in 4e. Hybrid Druid/Ranger gets you the Druid part and the Beast Companion (use Beast powers for the Ranger side). I can't give any advice on the Wizard side without knowing what you used from the Wizard side. The "right" MC could be almost anything, but Wizard makes grabbing attack powers somewhat MAD.

Vizzerdrix
2010-02-10, 05:09 PM
Shall I assume that is a no on mine then?

AstralFire
2010-02-10, 05:13 PM
1. Hit Dm with book.
2. Has he stopped talking about penguins?
if yes, go to 3
if no, go to 1.
3. Solved
Nested spoiler, that's not a character, that's a monster, but anyone could tag arbitrary abilities onto a monster easily thanks to the monster builder

This is why I love you, Kylarra.

hamishspence
2010-02-10, 05:17 PM
Shall I assume that is a no on mine then?

While crafting some items might be difficult, Artificer (Eberron Player's Guide) + Spellscarred Savant paragon path(Forgotten Player's Guide) might capture some of the essence of the concept. Especially with enough item-creation rituals.

I don't see problems with using Artificers in Realms- the class seems like it could work there.

Alternatively, Wizard (maybe with cleric as multiclass or hybrid) and Simbarch of Aglarond paragon path, since the Silver Fire abilities work in a similar way to the old Spellfire (heal & blast).

erikun
2010-02-10, 05:23 PM
I'm not terribly familiar with the 4e Artificers, but I do believe that some of their powers are items you can give to other party members, some that you "cast" onto party members and allow them to activate, and some that create independant effects (somewhat like summons). The can also recharge the daily uses of items, giving your party extra uses from them.

I'm afraid I'm not familiar enough with the build (both the 4e paragon classes and the 3.5e prestige classes you mentioned) to be more specific than that.

Doc Roc
2010-02-10, 05:26 PM
Daria "Can't-Stop" Hammerfist
Factotum 5/ Chameleon 7
With Wild Cohort, dragon cohort, obtain familiar, and item crafting feats.

Vizzerdrix
2010-02-10, 05:28 PM
Ah. but the thing about the Lantaan Artificer, is that it's magic items, are not magic items, but mechanical devices. There in lies the power. With Spellfire channeler it functioned rather well against casters and non casters alike.

hamishspence
2010-02-10, 05:29 PM
The Gnome Artificer class in Magic of Faerun (which humans from Lantan can also take- usually referring to themselves as Lantanese Artificers) is basically built around creating items that duplicate various arcane spells.

Some work even in antimagic fields- because they are nonmagical. Others count as supernatural abilities.

Given that 4th ed cut back massively on antimagic fields (only the Hive Mother Beholder has anything like one- and its one is much weaker) the Artificer class from Eberron should fit approximately into the concept.

Worira
2010-02-10, 05:33 PM
I will point out, on the subject of raising the dead quickly, there's a high-level shaman utility named Call the Dead. It raises every dead ally within 25 feet of the shaman, with 1/4 of their max hitpoints and no other penalties.

As for characters, Lloyd the ghost (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=124419).

Possesses enemies, makes extensive use of telekinesis both in and out of combat, floats everywhere, treats walls like curtains.

Amphetryon
2010-02-10, 05:34 PM
Please help me convert this character (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=160951) faithfully.

hamishspence
2010-02-10, 05:37 PM
Vestige Pact Warlock has curses (a bit like hexes) and binds vestiges.

There are, I think, undead-based rules in Dragon ways to make an existing character more undead-ish- possibly Revenant or Dhampir.

Also, Archlich from Arcane Power may fit.

With Eladrin as the base creature, you can get a rough approximation.

Amphetryon
2010-02-10, 05:39 PM
Please note the Dark Speech abilities in attempting the conversion. :)

hamishspence
2010-02-10, 05:43 PM
Possibly multiclassing (or using the hybrid rules) to get invoker powers- especially Covenant of Malediction. Invoker powers are a little like Dark Speech.

DSCrankshaw
2010-02-10, 05:44 PM
Okay, I think this thread has gotten slightly out of hand. It'd be a full-time job for the OP to get caught up on all the requests. So I think it would be in the OP's best interest to set some ground rules. Some suggestions:

1. Create a first come, first serve queue.
2. Limit it to one character per poster. If you want another character, it'll go to the bottom of the queue.
3. Divvy up the work. Folks willing to do conversions can call what characters they want to do.

Like I said, suggestions.

RebelRogue
2010-02-10, 05:46 PM
Daria "Can't-Stop" Hammerfist
Factotum 5/ Chameleon 7
With Wild Cohort, dragon cohort, obtain familiar, and item crafting feats.
Changeling Bard. Use heavy multiclassing to emulate the Factotum's flexibilty. Specifically, shaman multiclassing can give you a dragon (refluffed spirit companion). Crafting is handled by the Enchant Magic Item ritual. Paragon Path: Chameleon obviously. Eternal Seeker for Epic destiny will probably work well too.

Edit: Forgot the wild cohort. You could get that with the shaman multiclassing as well, but that would make you ditch the dragon. Hmm...

Doc Roc
2010-02-10, 06:05 PM
Changeling Bard. Use heavy multiclassing to emulate the Factotum's flexibilty. Specifically, shaman multiclassing can give you a dragon (refluffed spirit companion). Crafting is handled by the Enchant Magic Item ritual. Paragon Path: Chameleon obviously. Eternal Seeker for Epic destiny will probably work well too.

Edit: Forgot the wild cohort. You could get that with the shaman multiclassing as well, but that would make you ditch the dragon. Hmm...

Except that rituals are basically awful.

RebelRogue
2010-02-10, 06:11 PM
Except that rituals are basically awful.
Well, that's the way crafting works now. But it does what you asked for. If you multiclass to Artificer you can take some Eberron Feats to enhance this aspect a bit, but you're likely to be starved for Feats real soon.

Doc Roc
2010-02-10, 06:14 PM
I thought that 4e used a hybrid system rather than classicalist 3e multi-classing?

Giegue
2010-02-10, 06:17 PM
I've got a tough one...

Name: Mordrake
Race: Necropolitian/Undead
Class(es): Dread Necromancer/Shadow Adapt
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Whats necessary to keep in: Magic, with a focus on necromantic abilities and powers. Necropolitian also should be kept, though if you can't find a way to do that, then any undead race will suffice. Oh, and any abilities with a "darkness" flavor, or something else to simulate shadow adapt should be in there if you can find a way to squeeze it in.

RebelRogue
2010-02-10, 06:23 PM
I thought that 4e used a hybrid system rather than classicalist 3e multi-classing?
Multiclassing is when you take a Feat to get some benefits from some other class. This is limited to one such Feat, except for bards, which is why I suggested it for the base class.

For hybrid classes you pick two classes at character creation from which you get less Class Features than usual. You may choose freely between the powers of the two classes however. I'm no expert on this, but if you can get the extended multiclassing from the bard side, this may be a viable option here.

Saph
2010-02-10, 07:00 PM
Wizard with tome of readiness. You won't have 40+ spells ever, unless you count rituals, but "caster with 40+ spells" isn't a character concept, whereas "caster with a lot of spells compared to normally" is.

Um, no. I was quite specific on what I asked for. Don't try to tell me that what I want "isn't a character concept" just because you can't come up with a good way to represent it.

Now, Yakk's approach sounds a lot more promising. Question is, how early can you get a significant amount of variety, and can you do it with encounter powers as well? Being able to choose from loads of daily spells is nice, but if you run out after two castings that's not so interesting. Most games are played at relatively low levels, too, so it needs to get off the ground quickly.

BobTheDog
2010-02-10, 07:04 PM
Multiclassing is when you take a Feat to get some benefits from some other class. This is limited to one such Feat, except for bards, which is why I suggested it for the base class.

For hybrid classes you pick two classes at character creation from which you get less Class Features than usual. You may choose freely between the powers of the two classes however. I'm no expert on this, but if you can get the extended multiclassing from the bard side, this may be a viable option here.

You can't get the bard multiclassing freedom as a hybrid, at least not yet. It might/will come out sometime, I guess...

Amphetryon
2010-02-10, 07:05 PM
Possibly multiclassing (or using the hybrid rules) to get invoker powers- especially Covenant of Malediction. Invoker powers are a little like Dark Speech.

"a little like" seems a far cry from replicating the abilities faithfully, from where I sit. Perhaps if you explained in more detail how these powers would be de-buffing the opponent to comatose in 1-2 rounds, I could understand.

BobTheDog
2010-02-10, 07:16 PM
I've got a tough one...

Name: Mordrake
Race: Necropolitian/Undead
Class(es): Dread Necromancer/Shadow Adapt
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Whats necessary to keep in: Magic, with a focus on necromantic abilities and powers. Necropolitian also should be kept, though if you can't find a way to do that, then any undead race will suffice. Oh, and any abilities with a "darkness" flavor, or something else to simulate shadow adapt should be in there if you can find a way to squeeze it in.

This is kind of vague on some "requirements", but the basics will go like:

Race: Revenant (undead race). I don't really know what is a Necropolitian, either, so... :smallbiggrin:
Class(es): Dark Pact Warlock/Assassin/Invoker of malediction

Not sure how to mix and match it all, though. Since magic seems to be #1, either start as Darklock and multiclass into assassin or invoker, or hybrid it... But you'd get serious MAD going with all of it. Still doable, with options to reinforce different parts (i.e. if summoning is very important, Malediction Invoker gets a bigger share).

Giegue
2010-02-10, 09:20 PM
Which sourcebook is the Dark Pact for Warlocks in?

RebelRogue
2010-02-10, 09:21 PM
Which sourcebook is the Dark Pact for Warlocks in?
Forgotten Realms Player's Guide.

oxinabox
2010-02-10, 09:36 PM
EDIT: I see Doc Roc had a similar idea to this.
But I'm a binder, not a factotum - My class features Totally change each day, i'm much more able to change.
The factotum - he can e like many different classes all the time.
The binder - he can be a different 'class' each day,
but when he's a knight, he can't also be a rogue and a healer. (not from binder alone, by going chameleon, he can)

Name: Jane Joe
Race: Changeling (in 4e doppleganger is avaiable and and 0 LA so this would be her 4e race i think)
Class: Binder 10/ Chameleon 10 (I'm feeling nice, so i havent done her fully by going factoum5/binder 5/totemist 2/master of masks 1/chameleon 7 (it's been a while and i can't remember if that combination is possible or even decent)

The thing with Jane Doe is, well noone knows who she is, not even the party.
In fact until they left town they thought that whe was a goup of people each one turning up for one day, then swapping over in the night.

Not only does she look like she is person, she looks like she is is different Class each day.
and not only that, some days it appears that she is a member of 4 different classes, at the same time.

one day she might be clad in full plate, weilding a great ax, and tracking there enemy through the forest, looking like an old greybeard from a forgotten war.

The next she is a slim agile thief (with no idea how to wear weighy armour), disarming all the traps, scouting ahead, through the tunnel.
When she comes galloping back on a a warhorse (that she never had before) to warn the party of a group of evil cultists up head.
in combat she was smitting evil and doing sneak attacks.

Next day she is clearly a you bright wizard,
but she was also, an amazingly talented seige engineer (prof seige engineer +16), and her skin was too tough for most weapons to pentrate (DR/Addimantium)


She can be anyone any day, there is almost no power that she can't do, given a day (half a day even) to prepare (although high leval spells remain partially out of her reach)

RebelRogue
2010-02-10, 09:47 PM
Name: Jane Joe
Race: Changeling (in 4e doppleganger is avaiable and and 0 LA so this would be her 4e race i think)
Class: Binder 10/ Chameleon 10 (I'm feeling nice, so i havent done her fully by going factoum5/binder 5/totemist 2/master of masks 1/chameleon 7 (it's been a while and i can't remember if that combination is possible or even decent)

The thing with Jane Doe is, well noone knows who she is, not even the party.
In fact until they left town they thought that whe was a goup of people each one turning up for one day, then swapping over in the night.

Not only does she look like she is person, she looks like she is is different Class each day.
and not only that, some days it appears that she is a member of 4 different classes, at the same time.

one day she might be clad in full plate, weilding a great ax, and tracking there enemy through the forest, looking like an old greybeard from a forgotten war.

The next she is a slim agile thief (with no idea how to wear weighy armour), disarming all the traps, scouting ahead, through the tunnel.
When she comes galloping back on a a warhorse (that she never had before) to warn the party of a group of evil cultists up head.
in combat she was smitting evil and doing sneak attacks.

Next day she is clearly a you bright wizard,
but she was also, an amazingly talented seige engineer (prof seige engineer +16), and her skin was too tough for most weapons to pentrate (DR/Addimantium)


She can be anyone any day, there is almost no power that she can't do, given a day (half a day even) to prepare (although high leval spells remain partially out of her reach)
There a 4e Warlock Vestige Pact in Arcane Power, which is essentially the 4e version of the Binder. As a Changeling, the Chameleon Paragon Path is (once again) an obvious choice. But it is generally hard to replicate this level of adaptability in 4e. I think the build suggestions that are hardest to get decent are exactly these.

Gralamin
2010-02-10, 09:58 PM
Name: Jane Joe
Race: Changeling (in 4e doppleganger is avaiable and and 0 LA so this would be her 4e race i think)
Class: Binder 10/ Chameleon 10 (I'm feeling nice, so i havent done her fully by going factoum5/binder 5/totemist 2/master of masks 1/chameleon 7 (it's been a while and i can't remember if that combination is possible or even decent)

Switching everyday is sadly not very well supported. The best fit is going to be either a Vestige Warlock going into Chameleon, or Traveler's Harlequin. In Epic, likely to take the Eternal Champion Epic Destiny to be able to switch out powers from many different classes.

Gametime
2010-02-11, 12:13 AM
"a little like" seems a far cry from replicating the abilities faithfully, from where I sit. Perhaps if you explained in more detail how these powers would be de-buffing the opponent to comatose in 1-2 rounds, I could understand.

There are a lot of invoker powers. Most of them are focused on controlling the enemy, with stuns and immobilization and the like. "A little like" was meant to refer to flavor - Invokers wield the power of the gods directly, which is often fluffed as imbuing words directly with divine power (especially certain Invoker builds).

From where I sit, it's a pretty good transition.

Gametime
2010-02-11, 12:14 AM
Except that rituals are basically awful.

The Enchant Item ritual has nothing particularly wrong with it, depending on how your DM handles residuum. It's other rituals that tend to be the worst offenders in terms of cost versus benefit, especially those rituals which would only be useful in an emergency but which take forever to cast.

Enchanting items, on the other hand, generally means you have some time to kill, so the cast time isn't a big deal.

Nai_Calus
2010-02-11, 12:55 AM
Work this frilly pansy (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=143471) up, as close to as-is as possible.

Yes, I know that's a terrible character, I played it for three levels. :-P There was a story reason for it at the time. (We started at 7. No, my DM didn't especially believe in WBL, randomly allowed Swashbuckler but nothing else non-core in a core-only game, and didn't really believe in treasure. I was the only one who ever had any money since I'd randomly put a few coins on my sheet so the character could do coin tricks. That Longsword is also the only magic weapon we ever found. Yeah.)

Yes, I play 4E. :P I Just have no idea how I'd work him up with that set of mechanical ideas. :smallsigh:

AgentPaper
2010-02-11, 01:05 AM
Bard, multi-classed to ranger and wizard. Done.

Asbestos
2010-02-11, 01:27 AM
Work this frilly pansy (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=143471) up, as close to as-is as possible.

Yes, I know that's a terrible character, I played it for three levels. :-P There was a story reason for it at the time. (We started at 7. No, my DM didn't especially believe in WBL, randomly allowed Swashbuckler but nothing else non-core in a core-only game, and didn't really believe in treasure. I was the only one who ever had any money since I'd randomly put a few coins on my sheet so the character could do coin tricks. That Longsword is also the only magic weapon we ever found. Yeah.)

Yes, I play 4E. :P I Just have no idea how I'd work him up with that set of mechanical ideas. :smallsigh:

I noticed his sheet states he has a +1 to Awesome.

Telok
2010-02-11, 02:51 AM
How about this one, I haven't tried to replicate him in 4e myself. I originally made this for a friend, he'd love to be a drummer boy again.


Human Two Weapon Fighting
Fighter 1 1/0 Power Attack Weapon Focus -Light Mace
Fighter 2 2/1 Lightning Mace
Fighter 3 3/1 Combat Reflexes
Fighter 4 4/2 Weapon Specialization -Light Mace
Warblade 1 5/3 *Emerald Razor *Wolf Fang Strike *Blood in Water *Moment of Perfect Mind
Warblade 2 6/4 Uncanny Dodge Improved Two-Weapon Fighting *Disarming Strike
Warblade 3 7/5 *Iron Heart Surge
Fighter 5 8/5
Fighter 6 9/6 Melee Weapon Mastery-Bludegoning Improved Critical -Light Mace
Warblade 4 10/7 *Pearl of Black Doubt *Flesh Ripper (lose Wolf Fang Strike)
Warblade 5 11/8 Quickdraw (bonus feat) *Lightning Recovery
Warblade 6 12/9 Two-Weapon Rend Improved Uncanny *Dancing Mongoose (lose Disarming Strike)


at level 12 Str 15 (+2), +1 collision maces.
base atk +16/+16/+11/+6 dmg 1d6+12 crit 19-20 x2
offhand +16/+16/+11 dmg 1d6+11 crit 19-20 x2
on threat (19-20) get extra attack at same attack bonus
on crit get +1 to hit & dmg for all following attacks (bonus lasts from the
last crit +10 rounds) while in Blood in the Water stance
if hit at least once with each weapon Rend for 1d6+3



Mind you, I kept Emerald Razor and a maul in for DR critters and he had a longbow of distance with dispelling arrows for casters.

If you like this guy I've also got one that is a warblade/psy-warrior who power attacks every round against touch AC. Or a straight warblade Dex build with 100+ movement and an amazing concentration check (25+) with an anti-caster focus.

Anonomuss
2010-02-11, 04:17 AM
Um, no. I was quite specific on what I asked for. Don't try to tell me that what I want "isn't a character concept" just because you can't come up with a good way to represent it.

Now, Yakk's approach sounds a lot more promising. Question is, how early can you get a significant amount of variety, and can you do it with encounter powers as well? Being able to choose from loads of daily spells is nice, but if you run out after two castings that's not so interesting. Most games are played at relatively low levels, too, so it needs to get off the ground quickly.

The way to get the most variety and access is taking a Deva Remembered Wizardry/Expanded Spellbook, tome of readiness wizard.
While 4e characters can have no more than the normal number of Daily Spells (With a few exceptions) It gives you a wide range of choice in what you pick, and they're available at all times.

From Level 1;
You have 2 At-wills
You have 1 Encounter, with 1 Encounter available to switch in as a minor action.
You have 1 Daily, as a choice from 3.

It's not ideal at lvl 1, as you can only have 1 feat, and no magic items. When you get up to Level 11 it's a bit better.

Presuming you take Spellstorm Mage, and the Improved Tome of Readiness Feat, you get the following.
2 At Wills
4 Encounter Powers, with 1 Encounter available to switch in as a minor action.
3 Daily Powers, with each power chosen from 4 powers, and 1 Daily spell can be switched in a a minor.

The Spellstorm Mage PP, allows you to regain an Encounter Utility, Encounter Attack, Daily Utility or Daily Attack, depending on the result of a Wisdom Check.

You can have tomes for an additional 2 choices for Dailies, to switch in for your prepared dailies.

You can take a Mnemonic Staff also, to access the powers you have in reserve. Although it also requires a minor action to use.

When you get to lvl 21, you can take the Archmage Epic Destiny.
At Lvl 21, you can cast any daily twice per day,
At Lvl 30, you can cast any single daily power as an encounter power.

So a Maxed out Lvl 30 Deva Wizard/Spellstorm Mage/Archmage
Can cast up to;
5 Encounter Powers (Including 1 Daily as an Encounter Power)
3 Daily Powers (excluding the Daily used as an Encounter Power)
7 Utility Powers

You can cast 1 Daily Power twice, and "Recover" a use of any of your powers used through Spellstorm mage. And one of the Utilities above gives you back any arcane power.

However, in an encounter you can tweak your magic items so you have access to:
16 Daily Attack Powers, from your spellbook.
5 Encounter Powers, with one of them from your tome of readiness.
25 Utility Powers, from your Spellbook.

And then you gain access to another 2 attack or utility powers through Magical Tomes.

So access to 48 powers (Including 2 At Wills, which are still powers, and don't get expended, ever), almost instantaneously, not including any Magical Tomes abilities. You can also gain other classes or Wizard classes

However, there is no way to have access to anywhere up to that number at about 9th Level (Which you mentioned specifically.) You max out at that level with access to:
12 Daily Powers,
4 Encounter Powers,
8 Utility Powers,

So 26 powers (Including At Wills) at 9th Level, although that's without access to spells via Magical Tomes, as mentioned in your original post.

It's not exactly what you want. But as a concept of "My wizard knows a lot of spells.", it should do the job.

RebelRogue
2010-02-11, 07:26 AM
How about this one, I haven't tried to replicate him in 4e myself. I originally made this for a friend, he'd love to be a drummer boy again.


Human Two Weapon Fighting
Fighter 1 1/0 Power Attack Weapon Focus -Light Mace
Fighter 2 2/1 Lightning Mace
Fighter 3 3/1 Combat Reflexes
Fighter 4 4/2 Weapon Specialization -Light Mace
Warblade 1 5/3 *Emerald Razor *Wolf Fang Strike *Blood in Water *Moment of Perfect Mind
Warblade 2 6/4 Uncanny Dodge Improved Two-Weapon Fighting *Disarming Strike
Warblade 3 7/5 *Iron Heart Surge
Fighter 5 8/5
Fighter 6 9/6 Melee Weapon Mastery-Bludegoning Improved Critical -Light Mace
Warblade 4 10/7 *Pearl of Black Doubt *Flesh Ripper (lose Wolf Fang Strike)
Warblade 5 11/8 Quickdraw (bonus feat) *Lightning Recovery
Warblade 6 12/9 Two-Weapon Rend Improved Uncanny *Dancing Mongoose (lose Disarming Strike)


at level 12 Str 15 (+2), +1 collision maces.
base atk +16/+16/+11/+6 dmg 1d6+12 crit 19-20 x2
offhand +16/+16/+11 dmg 1d6+11 crit 19-20 x2
on threat (19-20) get extra attack at same attack bonus
on crit get +1 to hit & dmg for all following attacks (bonus lasts from the
last crit +10 rounds) while in Blood in the Water stance
if hit at least once with each weapon Rend for 1d6+3



Mind you, I kept Emerald Razor and a maul in for DR critters and he had a longbow of distance with dispelling arrows for casters.
A Tempest Fighter seems like a perfect class choice for this character. A two-weapon wielding defender with strikerish tendencies, which mimics the fighter/warblade thing you have going as far as I can see.


If you like this guy I've also got one that is a warblade/psy-warrior who power attacks every round against touch AC.
Melee touch attack roughly translates to "good at hitting" in 4e terms, which means maximizing to hit (a common practice anyway). It sounds like the new Psionic Defender coming up in PHB3 may fit well here.


Or a straight warblade Dex build with 100+ movement and an amazing concentration check (25+) with an anti-caster focus.
The fastest characters I've seen in 4e are predator druids, so I'd go with that if the main focus is speed (probably refluffed). Concentration is gone, but the Defensive Mobilty Feat will protect you a bit from opportunity attacks. As will being a halfling, if that's an option. The fighter is the best bet at an anti-caster class in 4e (close in on a wizard and mark him, and he's in big trouble). So multiclassing into fighter will add a pinch of this (or hybrid Druid|Fighter may work, but as stated above, my hybrid-fu is weak).

Nai_Calus
2010-02-11, 02:24 PM
Bard, multi-classed to ranger and wizard. Done.

Explain, because my initial reaction is that that misses the point entirely and is far, far too magic-oriented. I'm also not immediately picking up on the point of Wizard MC. This was mostly a melee character who used some magic once in a while and focused on being very agile and reasonably physical with somewhat decent social skills, though those weren't really a focus(+20 Diplomacy mod aside, and a fabulous testament to the ridiculousness of skill synergies). Which calls for DEX and lots of it, but there's no sane way to fit that into any reasonable build for him that I've ever figured out. The other problem is that he went back and forth between melee and ranged frequently and 4E doesn't handle that much better than it does TWF.

Saph
2010-02-11, 02:29 PM
It's not exactly what you want. But as a concept of "My wizard knows a lot of spells.", it should do the job.

No, that's pretty good actually. Wouldn't really work for this character, but it might come in pretty handy next time I want to put a 4e character together.

LichPrinceAlim
2010-02-11, 02:32 PM
I used to run a Duergar Adept/Cleric/Cerebremancer who prayed to Thor (psychic Hammer)

Artanis
2010-02-11, 02:40 PM
Explain, because my initial reaction is that that misses the point entirely and is far, far too magic-oriented. I'm also not immediately picking up on the point of Wizard MC. This was mostly a melee character who used some magic once in a while and focused on being very agile and reasonably physical with somewhat decent social skills, though those weren't really a focus(+20 Diplomacy mod aside, and a fabulous testament to the ridiculousness of skill synergies). Which calls for DEX and lots of it, but there's no sane way to fit that into any reasonable build for him that I've ever figured out. The other problem is that he went back and forth between melee and ranged frequently and 4E doesn't handle that much better than it does TWF.

I like how 4e handles TWF :smallfrown:


Regardless, that sounds like an Artful Dodger Rogue. Rogues have lots of DEX, and they're able to go between melee and ranged rather well. An Artful Dodger Rogue is especially dodgy, and it uses CHA as its secondary stat, which helps social skills while opening up some "magic once in a while" MC opportunities.

AgentPaper
2010-02-11, 03:15 PM
Explain, because my initial reaction is that that misses the point entirely and is far, far too magic-oriented. I'm also not immediately picking up on the point of Wizard MC. This was mostly a melee character who used some magic once in a while and focused on being very agile and reasonably physical with somewhat decent social skills, though those weren't really a focus(+20 Diplomacy mod aside, and a fabulous testament to the ridiculousness of skill synergies). Which calls for DEX and lots of it, but there's no sane way to fit that into any reasonable build for him that I've ever figured out. The other problem is that he went back and forth between melee and ranged frequently and 4E doesn't handle that much better than it does TWF.

The wizard was mostly to represent the various spells you had on your list, if those aren't important then a simple Bard multiclassed to Ranger would work fine, taking the feat that lets you base your multiclass abilities off of charisma instead of whatever they would normally be, allowing you to use twin strike with charisma for both melee and ranged.

Half Elf Dilettante give you twin strike as an encounter ability from level 1, and by level 2 you'll have ranger MC and the feat that lets you use cha for it instead of str or dex. A decent dex is still a good thing to have, both for your AC and for light/heavy blade feats. Then, keep taking multiclass abilities to get more ranger powers, and eventually you can take ranger MC as your paragon path, getting twin strike at-will and more ranger abilities, all of which use charisma to attack in melee or ranged, letting you switch between them as you want. Similarly, there's a number of ranged bard abilities as well as melee and buffing, so pick and choose what you want from there as well.

If this is too much "magic" for you, you can always just re-fluff some of the abilities, or even just go for ranger instead of bard in the first place and then MC to bard or wizard. You can talk to your DM about using dex instead of str for melee ranger powers, which shouldn't be too big a deal and will likely cost a feat.

Edit: Artful Dodger rogue does indeed sound like a better idea, and you're still a half-elf so you can use twin-strike once per encounter.

Nai_Calus
2010-02-11, 04:25 PM
I must admit I haven't even looked at Rogue for the most part because last time I bothered looking at them(Which has been quite some time because I just plain never liked rogues, in any edition, and Cel was never the thieving backstabber type), they were limited to a crossbow for use with their powers that could be used with a ranged weapon, so it never really occured to me to look at it since it was rogue and I'd still have to pick up longbow proficiency and just use RBAs anyway.(Yes, usage of an actual bow is important to him.)

Ranger I've avoided because of the STR/DEX MAD thingie, the nature aspect, lack of social skills and the whole 'yeah you should have some WIS' thing. Cel does not do WIS. Cel wouldn't know what WIS was if he wandered into it and smacked himself in the face with it while not paying attention.

I think part of my problem is that I want everything to work out perfectly by RAW as my play experiences since I've started D&D have taught me to never assume you can get anything at all re-fluffed, let alone re-speced, and to not even assume that RAW is allowed. >_>; Which leaves out a fair few options.

Maybe if Rogue ever gets a feat for elves that allows them to at least use shortbows for rogue powers or something it would work out a bit better... I dunno if MP has one or not, haven't been keeping up with the spoilers. Assuming whatever DM I had would let me take it as a half-elf.

4E does actually allow my original, non-workable in 3.5 without massive amounts of fiddling and splatdiving conception of the character to actually work via being a Valorous Bard(Although in practice I don't like ValBard at all) or a Swordmage, but by now I've gotten used to the altered one and associate it with the character instead, hah.

...No, screw all other mechanical fiddling, the real, true problem with this character is that no matter what, he's going to have to take Linguist at some point so he can speak Supernal. :smallsigh:

BobTheDog
2010-02-11, 06:24 PM
...No, screw all other mechanical fiddling, the real, true problem with this character is that no matter what, he's going to have to take Linguist at some point so he can speak Supernal. :smallsigh:

Or multiclass into cleric and take Holy Emissary as a PP. :smallwink:

Choco
2010-02-12, 02:53 PM
Alright how about this one: Wemic dual-wielding ranger.

The class is not a problem as the race is, and that is all that is stopping this group from converting to 4e (the wemics player is not willing to part with that character yet).

I am not willing to go into LA or anything similar, so I was just going to homebrew this but I can't find any large PC races to go off of.

AgentPaper
2010-02-12, 02:57 PM
Just pick a race that looks like it has similar bonuses to what a Wemic would have, make it large instead of medium, without being able to use larger weapons, have reach, or any other bonuses, and call it a Wemic. Done.

Choco
2010-02-12, 03:24 PM
Just pick a race that looks like it has similar bonuses to what a Wemic would have, make it large instead of medium, without being able to use larger weapons, have reach, or any other bonuses, and call it a Wemic. Done.

That is exactly what I was thinking about, except I do not know the full effect that being large will have on combat for the group. So far it seems like it will be a disadvantage, so I gotta throw it a bone. Maybe something as small as just another +2 bonus to a certain stat or a charge bonus or something.

Shardan
2010-02-13, 08:35 PM
I don't see a problem making it Medium sized. just put it at the larger side of medium (maybe make it unable to squeeze through small places)

If you have to make it large, I'd add a bonus to run speed and jump distance (makes sense for 4 legs) perhaps a bonus +1 move when traversing natural difficult terrain

Volkov
2010-02-13, 08:36 PM
Rary the level 24 Neutral Evil wizard, and a very important character in Greyhawk.

Tinydwarfman
2010-02-14, 12:49 AM
I would like a caster (originally wizard master specialist, but whatever works) that controls people's minds in both subtle and combat oriented ways. Must be able to cast unnoticed, and generally be a master manipulator.

Reluctance
2010-02-14, 03:53 AM
Rary the level 24 Neutral Evil wizard, and a very important character in Greyhawk.

As an important named NPC, he'd be better done using NPC rules than PC rules. Unless you actually expect one of your players to play Rary.


I would like a caster (originally wizard master specialist, but whatever works) that controls people's minds in both subtle and combat oriented ways. Must be able to cast unnoticed, and generally be a master manipulator.

Telepath psion looks to be all about that. The "master manipulator" part is best handled through skills like Diplomacy and Bluff that the telepath already has stat synergy with.

Shazbot79
2010-02-14, 07:31 AM
Telepath psion looks to be all about that. The "master manipulator" part is best handled through skills like Diplomacy and Bluff that the telepath already has stat synergy with.

Telepath Psion.

There are also skill powers in the PHB3, allowing you to bolster things like diplomacy, bluff and intimidate.

Skrizzy
2010-02-14, 08:32 AM
Here's the mage I refused to bring into 4e, if a campaign switched to it. I would just create a new character from scratch.

Miskul, battlefield control sorcerer, mild cold theme fluff. Very little in the way of damage spells, but has some and will get more. Damage is just secondary. Favorite spells include sleet storm and wall of ice. Forces baddies out of combat and then they slowly funnel back into combat so that the party can easily pick off enemies 1 by 1. Also loves a lot of oddball spells. Carries a million and one scrolls so that he has a spell for every occasion. Some players forget which spells are actually on my spell list. Also likes strange applications of his handful of known spells (and picks them with such versatility in mind). For example: a swarm of low HP baddies in melee with my party? "Empowered, metamagic rod maximized magic missile, 1 missile per target"

So I actually played a character like that as my first 4e character. I decided to go one step further and actually build you one in DDI (excluding items)


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Miskul, level 15
Deva, Wizard, Arcane Wayfarer
Arcane Implement Mastery: Orb of Imposition

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 11, Dex 12, Int 24, Wis 20, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 10, Dex 11, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 8.


AC: 24 Fort: 17 Reflex: 24 Will: 24
HP: 77 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 19

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +19, Dungeoneering +17, Religion +21, History +21

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +8, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +6, Endurance +7, Heal +12, Insight +12, Intimidate +6, Nature +12, Perception +12, Stealth +8, Streetwise +6, Thievery +8, Athletics +7

FEATS
Wizard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Expanded Spellbook
Level 2: Enlarge Spell
Level 4: Implement Expertise (orb)
Level 6: Remembered Wizardry
Level 8: Coordinated Explosion
Level 10: Auspicious Lineage
Level 11: Ascendant Lineage
Level 12: War Wizardry
Level 14: Danger Sense

POWERS
Wizard at-will 1: Ray of Frost
Wizard at-will 1: Chilling Cloud
Wizard encounter 1: Icy Terrain
Wizard daily 1: Rolling Thunder
Wizard daily 1 Spellbook: Grease
Wizard daily 1 Spellbook: Freezing Cloud
Wizard daily 1 Spellbook: Phantom Chasm
Wizard utility 2: Phantasmal Terrain
Wizard utility 2 Spellbook: Expeditious Retreat
Wizard utility 2 Spellbook: Shield
Wizard encounter 3: Icy Rays
Wizard daily 5: Bigby's Icy Grasp
Wizard utility 6: Dispel Magic
Wizard utility 6 Spellbook: Wizard's Escape
Wizard utility 6 Spellbook: Refocus
Wizard encounter 7: Repelling Sphere
Wizard daily 9: Ice Storm
Wizard daily 9 Spellbook: Visions of Ruin
Wizard daily 9 Spellbook: Face of Death
Wizard daily 9 Spellbook: Lightning Serpent
Wizard utility 10: Circle of Protection
Wizard utility 10 Spellbook: Mass Resistance
Wizard utility 10 Spellbook: Illusory Wall
Wizard encounter 13: Mesmeric Hold (replaces Icy Terrain)
Wizard daily 15: Wall of Ice (replaces Bigby's Icy Grasp)
Wizard daily 15 Spellbook: Bigby's Grasping Hands
Wizard daily 15 Spellbook: Blast of Cold
Wizard daily 15 Spellbook: Shunt Between Worlds

ITEMS
Spellbook
RITUALS
Comprehend Language, Tenser's Floating Disk, Unseen Servant, Object Reading


I picked level 15 so he could actually have wall of ice, and my first priority when picked spells was cold spells, then what you wanted him to do with said spells. As to the odd application, and the many scrolls, odd application is pretty easy with 4e wizards, so good luck with it, scrolls are ritual items now, and fall into the item section (which i didn't do).

How he plays is just dropping Area of Effects to prone, slow, stun, ect. He also has a lot of powers that slide, teleport, or push the target.

His feats were chosen to hit the most targets, and to go earlier while baddies are more likely to be grouped up. He also took every feat to give more powers, which is why he has so many spells. Finally, he gets +1 to all attacks if there is an ally in his burst, but -5 against allies and half damage, net -4 against allies.

Have fun.

P.S. this also gets close to the request for like 40 spells, by level 30 that would happen.

Tinydwarfman
2010-02-14, 08:47 AM
Telepath Psion.

There are also skill powers in the PHB3, allowing you to bolster things like diplomacy, bluff and intimidate.

ok... but what can it actually do in the way of powers? Does it get stuff like lesser geas or dominate, or even charm person?

Artanis
2010-02-14, 11:35 AM
ok... but what can it actually do in the way of powers? Does it get stuff like lesser geas or dominate, or even charm person?

4e doesn't have that sort of trivially-easy, long-term mind-screwing the way 3e does. Charm Person might be in as a ritual (I'd have to check), but you aren't going to make somebody into a slave for three weeks just by waving your hand, so geas and dominate are out AFAIK.

erikun
2010-02-14, 12:22 PM
The class is not a problem as the race is, and that is all that is stopping this group from converting to 4e (the wemics player is not willing to part with that character yet).
If you don't mind something quick and dirty:

Wemic
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity
Size: Medium
Speed: 7 squares
Vision: Normal

Languages: Common, Elven
Skill Bonuses: +2 Stealth, +2 Perception
Pounce: You may end a charge with an at-will attack, rather than a basic melee attack

Pounce is going to have some very weird interactions with some characters, such as Wemic Wizards charging with Thunderwave or Wemic Battleminds charging with anything, but it should keep the player entertained. You may want to limit that to only melee and close at-wills, to prevent the "I charge and use Magic Missile at the end."

I don't have any racial feats for you, so just pick whatever abilities the player liked from his 3.5e Wemic and turn those into feats.

Volkov
2010-02-14, 12:23 PM
As an important named NPC, he'd be better done using NPC rules than PC rules. Unless you actually expect one of your players to play Rary.



Telepath psion looks to be all about that. The "master manipulator" part is best handled through skills like Diplomacy and Bluff that the telepath already has stat synergy with.

He was once a PC of either Gygax or a friend of his.

erikun
2010-02-14, 11:03 PM
This could be a straight-up Chaos Sorcerer. Playing with colors is their favorite thing to do. At the cost of damage output, you can even MC (or Hybrid) with Wizard to grab the prismatic-line spells in their spell list. The Int requirement for the latter would hurt your Dex, lowering your damage output.
Hmm. While a Chaos Sorcerer/Wild Mage does look good, the first "prismatic" spells outside 1st level are at level 15, with Scintillating Starburst (PHB2) or Prismatic Lightning (Arcane Power). That's halfway through my career. And while I do see more posibilities as a Sorcerer/Wizard, you point out that it isn't very useful... which kind of defeats the point. :smallfrown:


Illusion Wizard, multiclassed into Bard... or vice-versa. The latter lets you also dip into Warlock and Sorcerer for their powers and has a Leader slant, while the former is primarily controller. Disguising spells is mostly flavor, but could be hidden with a Bluff or Stealth check probably. You should ask the DM about specific adjudications on that part.
Can bluff be used to disguise spells? What would the DC even be for such a feat? I certainly wouldn't know as DM, and I'm pretty good at making stuff up. Perhaps there will be a Skill Feat in PHB3 that addresses the issue, but I'm thinking that the "disguise spells on the fly" isn't something that 4e could handle.


This one's a little odd in 4e. Hybrid Druid/Ranger gets you the Druid part and the Beast Companion (use Beast powers for the Ranger side). I can't give any advice on the Wizard side without knowing what you used from the Wizard side. The "right" MC could be almost anything, but Wizard makes grabbing attack powers somewhat MAD.
Well, wizard was mostly for qualifying for Arcane Heirophant and more spells, so it is easily replicated by just a Druid or rituals. I'm not quite sure what a Druid/Ranger would pick for powers, though. Beast powers would kind of defeat the point of riding the animal, while STR/WIS for melee Ranger powers would leave the character with terrible defenses. I suppose you could just strafe with Druid powers, using the Ranger companion as a means of transportation...

I suppose STR/DEX for a Ranger/Druid would work, although that drops the spellcasting. Of course, I don't think there are any rules preventing you from riding while in Wild Shape; a DEX/WIS Druid/Ranger bear-riding bear? How would shifting powers even work while mounted?

This seems like another "sorta could work, but not really the same".

Gametime
2010-02-14, 11:24 PM
He was once a PC of either Gygax or a friend of his.

I'm pretty sure that while Rary the Wizard was a PC of one of Gygax's group, he wasn't as powerful as the NPC version. (Same for most of the characters that ended up based on their PCs - Mordenkainen, etc.) I don't have any proof of this offhand, but the fact that the 3.5 characters are epic and epic rules didn't really exist at the time the characters were invented seems to suggest it.

Yakk
2010-02-16, 10:48 AM
Work this frilly pansy (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=143471) up, as close to as-is as possible.

Yes, I know that's a terrible character, I played it for three levels. :-P There was a story reason for it at the time. (We started at 7. No, my DM didn't especially believe in WBL, randomly allowed Swashbuckler but nothing else non-core in a core-only game, and didn't really believe in treasure. I was the only one who ever had any money since I'd randomly put a few coins on my sheet so the character could do coin tricks. That Longsword is also the only magic weapon we ever found. Yeah.)

Yes, I play 4E. :P I Just have no idea how I'd work him up with that set of mechanical ideas. :smallsigh:


Half elf: Con and Cha

Level 14 Half Elf
Hybrid Rogue | Bard
14 Str (13+1)
13 Con (12+1)
20 Dex (16+4)
14 Int (13+1)
9 Wis ( 8+1)
21 Cha (15+6)

Feats: (unordered)
1 Rapier Proficiency
2 Expertise (Light Blade)
3 Paragon Defences
4 Backstabber
5 Hybrid Talent: Rogue Tactics: Artful Dodger
6 Duelist's Panache
7 Flash of the Blade
8 Irrefutable Blade
9 Combat Virtuoso
10 Warrior of the Wild
11 Versatile Master

Defences: 28 AC 23 Fort 28 Reflex 27 Will
HP: 90
Equipment: MW Leather+3 Songblade+3 Some Amulet+3
Attack: +19 (weapon), +16 (implement)

Powers:
Vicious Mockery at-will Bard
Clever Strike at-will Rogue
Twin Strike at-will Half-Elf Dilletante

Paragon Path: Rakish Swashbuckler

Get the hedge mage's gloves for the free cantrips.

The daily/encounter powers you choose are really up to your preference.


Fights with a pair of swords, can make attacks with both.

Gets cha damage on a miss, which makes twin strike pretty good.

Might be better built a Rogue multiclass Bard really -- represent the spellcasting with hedge wizard gloves and Bardic Ritualist -- drop the MC Ranger, keep the twin strike and Combat Virtuoso. Then you end up with a character whose go-to attack is twin strike (optionally plus Flash of the Blade), doing decent damage on a hit or on a miss. Possibly should dual-wield rapiers rather than rapier+short sword?

Gah, not enough MC -- you need MC bard for one thing, and MC ranger to use the rapier in the off-hand. Windrose ports background to the rescue (allowing double-MC).

Indon
2010-02-16, 01:54 PM
I know of tons of concepts that can easily be converted into 4th edition, so I'll just name a challenging one that I've kinda kept in the back of my mind for 3.5. He'd certainly be a fun character to play in any system in which you could pull him off, and while not even 3.5 can really do him justice, I'm not sure what an attempt to make him in 4e could manage.

Mario Mario (You're probably familiar with this character)

Build: Human Monk
Special: Snap Kick

Synopsis: Plump Italian plumber who overcomes challenges through incredible acrobatic skill and clever use of magic items. Primary attacks include a three-attack flurry (two punches and a snap kick), and using his impressive jumping ability to land on top of his opponents, crushing them under his portly, stout frame.

Draz74
2010-02-16, 02:07 PM
and while not even 3.5 can really do him justice,

What's wrong with an Unarmed Swordsage with cross-class UMD? Tiger Claw maneuvers can do some pretty awesome damage (and stun) by means of Jump checks. Heck, it's easy enough to re-fluff Desert Wind Cloak as "fireflower" to explain his fire-damage ranged touch attacks. :smallamused: (Apparently the Smash Bros. version has just gone ahead and picked up some Desert Wind maneuvers of his own, no items necessary.)

Tyndmyr
2010-02-16, 02:22 PM
My current character:

Wizard 5/Incantatrix 4/Iot7V 2. Generalist, domain wizard with the storm domain, giving him access to a variety of divine spells as arcane spells, which interplays with my reserve feat, giving me infinte lightening.

Race: Grey Elf

Feats: Iron Will(via otogyugh hole), fell drain, invisible spell, Spell focus(Abj), GSF(Abj), scribe scroll, Elvish proficiencies, Reserve feat(lightening, cant recall actual name), Extend Spell, Persist Spell. The one that lets you get bonus spells as if your spellcasting modifier were 1 higher. Probably more that I can't remember.

Flaw: Binge Drinker(taken from D&D SRD).

Stats:
Str: 3
Dex: 20
Con: 20
Int: 28
Wis: 20
Cha: 8 -Signifiant enhancement bonuses were used in acheiving these stats. Feel free to replicate them however works best.

Skills: A giant pile. Concentration checks are generally autopass, as are all spellcraft checks. UMD is also maxed, and I have a variety of crafting skills high enough to make MW items in.

Spells known: All spells from levels 0-4. Approximately 20 level 5 spells, 2 level 6 spells(just dinged).

Gear: Bag of holding IV, the rainment of four, giving limited spont spell conversion. A collection of approximately 30 scrolls, 10 potions, and ten wands, mostly eternal wands. Handy Haversack. Co-owner of a large underground fortress, created by the party casters in our downtime.

Relevant abilities: Immune to blinding, dazzling, drowning, critical strikes, sneak attack, nearly immune to any will save, fire, permanencied see invisibility, detect magic, etc...I permanency everything I can on principle. Due to veils, can ignore ranged weapons at will, even in AMFs. Due to incantatrix and a party MT, has persisted lesser vigor up at all times, along with an assortment of other buffs. Can swim great and cast at will underwater. Can fly all day, every day.

Im probably leaving off a bunch of stuff, but this is the main stuff I use all the time, Im curious as to what you'll come up with. Known for being extremely paranoid, egotistical, and lethal. Unless drunk.

Draz74
2010-02-16, 02:26 PM
Known for being extremely paranoid, egotistical, and lethal. Unless drunk.

... so, no worries. :smallwink:

Tyndmyr
2010-02-16, 02:27 PM
... so, no worries. :smallwink:

I do a lot of intentionally failing will saves when alcohol is around, yes. =) The egoism plays nicely into that. The team has since learned not to ever, ever, let me teleport while drunk, no matter how much I claim I can "handle it".

Indon
2010-02-16, 02:38 PM
What's wrong with an Unarmed Swordsage with cross-class UMD? Tiger Claw maneuvers can do some pretty awesome damage (and stun) by means of Jump checks. Heck, it's easy enough to re-fluff Desert Wind Cloak as "fireflower" to explain his fire-damage ranged touch attacks. :smallamused: (Apparently the Smash Bros. version has just gone ahead and picked up some Desert Wind maneuvers of his own, no items necessary.)

Hmm, that might work fairly well, with the UMD pulling any of the weight the maneuvers don't.

Monk gets the movement speed for far better jump checks, but I guess you could work other ways of reliably boosting your jump checks.

Choco
2010-02-16, 04:19 PM
If you don't mind something quick and dirty:

Wemic
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity
Size: Medium
Speed: 7 squares
Vision: Normal

Languages: Common, Elven
Skill Bonuses: +2 Stealth, +2 Perception
Pounce: You may end a charge with an at-will attack, rather than a basic melee attack

Pounce is going to have some very weird interactions with some characters, such as Wemic Wizards charging with Thunderwave or Wemic Battleminds charging with anything, but it should keep the player entertained. You may want to limit that to only melee and close at-wills, to prevent the "I charge and use Magic Missile at the end."

I don't have any racial feats for you, so just pick whatever abilities the player liked from his 3.5e Wemic and turn those into feats.

That is a good place to start, thanks. I suppose I will look at this further, especially at the various big cats and centaurs in the monster manuals, to perhaps get a better idea of what stats and racial abilities to give them.

deuxhero
2010-02-16, 04:20 PM
Do Fistbeard Beardfist.

Tinydwarfman
2010-02-16, 05:22 PM
4e doesn't have that sort of trivially-easy, long-term mind-screwing the way 3e does. Charm Person might be in as a ritual (I'd have to check), but you aren't going to make somebody into a slave for three weeks just by waving your hand, so geas and dominate are out AFAIK.

ok, but anything even like suggestion? hypnotic hands? confusion?

Sir Homeslice
2010-02-16, 05:49 PM
ok, but anything even like suggestion? hypnotic hands? confusion?

There's a Vistani ritual.


Spirit Fetch
You call forth an insubstantial spirit—fey, primal, or shadow—to unpleasantly influence another to do your bidding.
Level: 2
Component Cost: 20 gp
Category: Exploration
Market Price: 50 gp
Time: 10 minutes
Key Skill: Arcana or Religion
Duration: Special
When complete, this ritual calls forth a spiritual presence, or “fetch,” of a shape you define. Typically, these fetches are small, indistinct, and shaped like a small animal or person. You can send this spirit to a creature (or creatures) whose specific appearance you can visualize or whose name you can provide, or to whom you have a material connection such as a vial of blood. You whisper a simple command of 10 words of less, such as “Come to me,” “Bring me the ritual components,” or “Burn down the fortress wall.”
The fetch then goes to find the creature you designated at a rapid pace (speed 15) and seeks out the creature you specify. It cannot communicate, but the recipient senses its presence and receives your command. Unless the recipient does as you wish, the fetch remains at the target’s side as a constant reminder. The fetch cannot be harmed, but dispel magic used successfully can drive it away for a day.

Your skill check result determines how long the fetch exists.
Check Result Duration
19 or lower 12 hours
20–29 1 day
30–39 1 week
40 or higher 1 month

erikun
2010-02-16, 06:29 PM
Mario Mario (You're probably familiar with this character)

Build: Human Monk
Special: Snap Kick
Human Barbarian, actually. Pick up Athletics as a trained skill, use a Maul and/or reflavor it as a large pair of Boots.

4e tends to encourage mobility, so using Athletics to make jump checks over obstacles and enemies is encourages (if unusual). Naturally high strength plus training makes most checks successful, either as charges or just getting close to opponents. I have a Barbarian in my current 4e game who enjoys occasionally jumping over obstacles, and while it isn't always successful, it does work.

In addition, Barbarian rages can mimic Mario's various power suits. Stalking Panther, Burning Phoenix, and White Dragon could easily be Raccoon Leaf, Fire Flower, and Frost Flower.

Mando Knight
2010-02-16, 06:39 PM
I'd actually go with Human (or possibly Dwarf) Monk. Monks are ridiculously mobility-focused, and Mario fights almost exclusively either unarmed or with a hammer. 4e Monks can fight easily while unarmed, and just as well with a weapon as without one.

RebelRogue
2010-02-16, 07:09 PM
My current character:
No offence, but to me the character concept I get from this is "the most broken wizard character possible", so maybe an Orbizard would do? :smalltongue:

As for a more accurate remake, you might be able to replicate some elements of it, but generally it's a type of character 4e deliberately tried to shy away from.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-17, 08:58 AM
No offence, but to me the character concept I get from this is "the most broken wizard character possible", so maybe an Orbizard would do? :smalltongue:

As for a more accurate remake, you might be able to replicate some elements of it, but generally it's a type of character 4e deliberately tried to shy away from.

Nah, I could have him vastly more broken. We play at a rather high power level, all sources are legit, and we stay pretty close to RAW. One of our recent plans included "we'll have the wizard destroy that fleet, while the MT stops everything attacking the city, and we capture the other fleet for the money." I believe only one person actually took damage executing said plan, and it involved flying, blinking, invisible assassins.

*shrug* It's a very high powered, high fantasy environment, I wonder if the other characters could be replicated either. The CW samurai has his power through...drugs. Yup, he's a drug dealer, abusing the addiction rules to gain control over people. The first one is always free. =)

Artanis
2010-02-17, 10:33 AM
Nah, I could have him vastly more broken. We play at a rather high power level, all sources are legit, and we stay pretty close to RAW. One of our recent plans included "we'll have the wizard destroy that fleet, while the MT stops everything attacking the city, and we capture the other fleet for the money." I believe only one person actually took damage executing said plan, and it involved flying, blinking, invisible assassins.

*shrug* It's a very high powered, high fantasy environment, I wonder if the other characters could be replicated either. The CW samurai has his power through...drugs. Yup, he's a drug dealer, abusing the addiction rules to gain control over people. The first one is always free. =)

That sounds AWESOME. I want to be in your campaigns :smallsmile:


I don't know if you can even get close to this in 4e though. Well, possibly the drug-dealing Samurai, and there's a Ranger power that will shoot literally everybody within 500' of them, but getting any closer than that is far beyond my rather modest (and by "rather modest" I mean "virtually nonexistent") optimization talents.

I will say though, it sounds like it'd make for a hell of an Exalted campaign. The Samurai in particular absolutely SCREAMS "Chosen of Serenity".

The Corinthian
2010-02-18, 03:31 AM
So did we scare Inyssius out of this thread?

Tyndmyr
2010-02-18, 08:29 AM
That sounds AWESOME. I want to be in your campaigns :smallsmile:

Heh, if you live in maryland, and are very patient, might be possible. We typically have a lotta people that want in.


I don't know if you can even get close to this in 4e though. Well, possibly the drug-dealing Samurai, and there's a Ranger power that will shoot literally everybody within 500' of them, but getting any closer than that is far beyond my rather modest (and by "rather modest" I mean "virtually nonexistent") optimization talents.

I was afraid of this being the case...we tried doing 4e for a while...but after a while, we got bored of powers that didn't really do much(combat advantage seems pretty tame after throwing buildings at people) and went back to 3.5.


I will say though, it sounds like it'd make for a hell of an Exalted campaign. The Samurai in particular absolutely SCREAMS "Chosen of Serenity".

I do have to pick up that system at some point...sounds interesting. For ideas, if for nothing else.

Artanis
2010-02-18, 11:05 AM
I do have to pick up that system at some point...sounds interesting. For ideas, if for nothing else.

Yeah. In Exalted, the premise is that each PC is a hero who was so impressive as a mortal that one of the most powerful gods anywhere ever decided to infuse him or her with a shard of raw divine power. The result? Starting characters can literally kick a deity to death if they put their mind to it :smallbiggrin:

Chaelos
2010-02-18, 11:45 AM
A dragon.

(3.5 standard: Draconomicon, p. 141)

The Rose Dragon
2010-02-18, 11:47 AM
Yeah. In Exalted, the premise is that each PC is a hero who was so impressive as a mortal that one of the most powerful gods anywhere ever decided to infuse him or her with a shard of raw divine power. The result? Starting characters can literally kick a deity to death if they put their mind to it :smallbiggrin:

Depends on the spirit in question. Some spirits can be beaten (although not to death) by experienced mortals, while the most powerful require powerful Solars. As in, more than one.

Asbestos
2010-02-18, 01:06 PM
I like how 4e handles TWF :smallfrown:


Regardless, that sounds like an Artful Dodger Rogue. Rogues have lots of DEX, and they're able to go between melee and ranged rather well. An Artful Dodger Rogue is especially dodgy, and it uses CHA as its secondary stat, which helps social skills while opening up some "magic once in a while" MC opportunities.

Going to throw out that Arcane Trickster is a Rogue PP in Martial Power 2.

Master_Rahl22
2010-02-18, 01:43 PM
Maybe it would help to explain a bit some of the changes from 3.5 to 4E. Damage is actually meaningful in 4E since there are very few "I win" buttons any more. This means that if your 3.5 Wizard focused on Save-or-lose/suck/die spells, it's not going to have the same feel in 4E. Oh, there ways to focus on inflicting bad status effects and keeping them there, but no more "Oh you failed a die roll? GGKTHXBYE!!"

Also, a concerted effort was made to make 4E much more team oriented, so stories like Tyndmyr's about taking out a flotilla and all of that are much less likely to happen since the Wizard is now (roughly) balanced with Fighters, Rogues, etc.

Out of combat type spells are now generally either Utility powers or Rituals. That's just how they decided to do it. If you don't want Rituals but you really want to be able to create magic items, sorry. Rituals is how WotC decided to make creating magic items work in 4E.

Finally, the sort of crazy "I have levels in 12 classes and have thousands of spells at my disposal" character is gone, specifically because WotC wanted to force you to depend on your team and not be able to do everything yourself.

Other than that, the main thing to keep in mind is not to become too attached to the name of the class, which I think has come up in this thread before. If you played a Fighter with high Charisma and who was very mobile and tricky, it may just work better as an Artful Dodger Rogue. If your Cleric was all about DMM Persisting himself until he was a better fighter than the Fighter, then maybe it will work better as a Paladin or Avenger.