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View Full Version : 4Ed. swordbonding, swordmages, spiked chains: questions! (no, not about BDSM!)



dehro
2010-02-10, 11:39 AM
from forgotten realm, the description of the swordmage:
If your bonded weapon is broken or damaged, you can spend 1 hour of meditation to recreate the weapon from a fragment. (This process automatically destroys any other fragments of the weapon in existence, so you canít use it to create multiple copies of a broken weapon.)
does that work on swords that weren't bonded when they broke too? say someone in my party breaks his sword..can I swordbond with the biggest chunk, and then repair it? (have I found a silly loophole or is the sillyness entirely mine?)

more importantly, what happens to any magical properties? say my (regularily) bonded +1 sword breaks and I repair it, do I get the +1 back too?

on another matter...I have created a shadar-kai swordmage (for funsies, I don't play the 4th edition yet, I just got the character builder demo and a few manuals, for now)....
It uses the shadar-kai description from dragon magazine nr 372 as a reference.
the favourite shadar-kai weapon seems to be a spiked chain, which opens up some cool prospects of weapon specialisation (I still have to find a proper image of a spiked chain that is actually usable in the real world, and not just some cool sounding flight of fancy, or an accident waiting to happen)

so, question: is the spiked chain considered a blade, for swordmage purposes? it seems that way, going by the characted builder..but I'm not sure..it seems a tad weird

Anyway, in my ignorance, the result sounds very appealing (even though the Shadar-kai look and behave a bit too Emo, for my tastes):
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
Lucyan, level 1
Shadar-kai, Swordmage
Build: Assault Swordmage
Swordmage Aegis: Aegis of Assault
Birth - Among Another Race: Among Another Race (Eladrin)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 15, Con 13, Dex 12, Int 19, Wis 10, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 15, Con 13, Dex 10, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 8.


AC: 16 Fort: 13 Reflex: 14 Will: 12
HP: 28 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 7

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +9, Endurance +6, Insight +7, Athletics +7

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +3, Bluff -1, Diplomacy -1, Dungeoneering, Heal, History +4, Intimidate -1, Nature, Perception, Religion +4, Stealth +3, Streetwise -1, Thievery +1

FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Spiked chain)

POWERS
Swordmage at-will 1: Greenflame Blade
Swordmage at-will 1: Lightning Lure
Swordmage encounter 1: Flame Cyclone
Swordmage daily 1: Dimensional Thunder

ITEMS
Spellbook, Spiked chain, Leather Armor, Greatsword, Adventurer's Kit, Sling, Short sword (4), Sling Bullets (20), Climber's Kit
RITUALS
Arcane Mark
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
did I do well? :smallamused::smallbiggrin: :smalltongue: :smalltongue:

not sure I understand the whole spiked chain thing anyway: it's 2handed but each "hand" has an attack? (2d4, right?)...but it's not necessary to have dual wielding skills? or is it? can it be wielded in one hand at all? :smallconfused:

JasonP
2010-02-10, 11:45 AM
Based on the wording, I would say that you have to be bonded before it's broken, but it's probably a DM call.
I would say the weapon retains any magical properties, no reason it shouldn't.

Lamech
2010-02-10, 11:52 AM
Is your bonded weapon broken or damaged? Then yes you can use that quoted section to repair it. So if you bond to a weapon that is broken you can use that ablity to repair it. I have no clue if you can bond to a damaged weapon.

Altima
2010-02-10, 12:08 PM
Spiked chains are Flails and do not have the heavy blade or light blade property. Therefore, they cannot be used as an implement for Swordmages.

Tiki Snakes
2010-02-10, 12:18 PM
Spiked chains are Flails and do not have the heavy blade or light blade property. Therefore, they cannot be used as an implement for Swordmages.

With the Spiked Chain Training multiclass feat, each end counts as a light blade (which I take to mean that the spiked chain counts as a light blade), so I'd say personally that with the right feat, the swordmage probably CAN use it as an implement.

But that you should check with the DM first. :smallsmile:

Yakk
2010-02-10, 12:58 PM
I would consider bonding a broken weapon in order to repair it questionable.

Unless it was sufficiently cool.

Kylarra
2010-02-10, 01:09 PM
Per a broken weapon, imo, it's no longer a light or heavy blade at that point, it's just ... fragments of one, so I'd say no.

Damaged maybe if rule of cool called for it.

potatocubed
2010-02-10, 01:13 PM
Somewhat related question: is there any reason why swordmage-acceptable weapons can't be expanded to include other types?

dehro
2010-02-10, 01:53 PM
Somewhat related question: is there any reason why swordmage-acceptable weapons can't be expanded to include other types?

nu-uh...I suppose you can always houserule an "axemage", or a clubmage...but those would be DM concessions.


as for the "not being blades" which I agree "by the look of it", where a chain is considered, the PCgenerator seems to consider it 2 short blades..or so I understand it (it removes the weapon from the off hand and the attack by spiked chain provokes 2d of damage rather than, say, 1d8 or 1d10 like a polearm. if it were only to reflect the "lesser damage" it would be 1d4 or a d6... and not 2d4, surely?

Yakk
2010-02-10, 01:55 PM
The double-weapon version of the spiked chain requires a MC feat to be able to use, technically.

Tanngrisnr
2010-02-10, 03:32 PM
Anyway, in my ignorance, the result sounds very appealing (even though the Shadar-kai look and behave a bit too Emo, for my tastes):
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
Lucyan, level 1
Shadar-kai, Swordmage
Build: Assault Swordmage
Swordmage Aegis: Aegis of Assault
Birth - Among Another Race: Among Another Race (Eladrin)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 15, Con 13, Dex 12, Int 19, Wis 10, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 15, Con 13, Dex 10, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 8.


AC: 16 Fort: 13 Reflex: 14 Will: 12
HP: 28 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 7

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +9, Endurance +6, Insight +7, Athletics +7

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +3, Bluff -1, Diplomacy -1, Dungeoneering, Heal, History +4, Intimidate -1, Nature, Perception, Religion +4, Stealth +3, Streetwise -1, Thievery +1

FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Spiked chain)

POWERS
Swordmage at-will 1: Greenflame Blade
Swordmage at-will 1: Lightning Lure
Swordmage encounter 1: Flame Cyclone
Swordmage daily 1: Dimensional Thunder

ITEMS
Spellbook, Spiked chain, Leather Armor, Greatsword, Adventurer's Kit, Sling, Short sword (4), Sling Bullets (20), Climber's Kit
RITUALS
Arcane Mark
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
did I do well? :smallamused::smallbiggrin: :smalltongue: :smalltongue:

You need a few adjusts to your build:

1 - You don't need to take Weapon Proficiency [Spiked Chain] to use the weapon. In fact, as a Swordmage, you can't use it as an implement that way.

What you need is the Spiked Chain Trainning feat, it's a multiclass feat, but that's the one that let's you use a chain as a light blade. The feat will give you free proficiency as well as other benefits.

2 - You don't have the Ritual Caster feat, so you can't learn rituals.



not sure I understand the whole spiked chain thing anyway: it's 2handed but each "hand" has an attack? (2d4, right?)...but it's not necessary to have dual wielding skills? or is it? can it be wielded in one hand at all? :smallconfused:

If you have the Spiked Chain Trainning feat, the spiked chain becomes a double weapon. Each end of a double weapon has it's own damage die and properties (check the Adventure's Vault and the rules update at WotC site for more info). You don't need dual wielding skills to use a double weapon or two weapons at once, as you, generaly, only benefit from those if the power you're using says so.

So far, a spiked chain can't be used one-handed.

Sinon
2010-02-10, 05:56 PM
With the Spiked Chain Training multiclass feat, each end counts as a light blade (which I take to mean that the spiked chain counts as a light blade), so I'd say personally that with the right feat, the swordmage probably CAN use it as an implement.

But that you should check with the DM first. :smallsmile:Technically, it says you get to treat them like light blades. Not that they are light blades.

A fine hair but strong enough if your DM wants to say no.

He may wish to consider:
It's a multiclass feat. (You only get one.)
You could use Arcane Implement Proficiency for a comparable benefit. (Not for a chain per se, but a staff, a wand.)
Your Swordmage Warding will suffer as with any two-handed weapon.


For the record, my DM said yes with my having to make those arguments.

dehro
2010-02-11, 07:15 AM
You need a few adjusts to your build:

1 - You don't need to take Weapon Proficiency [Spiked Chain] to use the weapon. In fact, as a Swordmage, you can't use it as an implement that way.



thanks...it took me a while to work out where the spiked chain training feat was...I didn't have enough dex to choose it so I had to readjust the stats a little, in order to do that.
all sorted.

now I only have to find 4-5 party members and a master :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Tiki Snakes
2010-02-11, 11:32 AM
Yes, losing the swordmage warding stings like the bejesus. Personally, in such a case, I'd go Hybrid Swordmage-something-else, because if you're not going to get the warding, you may as well pick up something else via the hybrid talent mc feat.

Of course, building something that synergises AND does exactly what you want isn't guarenteed. It does mix okay with Warlord though, depending on stuff.

As for other weapons, I'd allow it for a feat, mostly provided there was a good flavour reasoning behind it, though. For example, the Rogue feats that allow Dwarves to sneak attack with one handed axes and hammers in exchange for some sneak dice.

Given that the swords are pretty much amongst the better weapons anyway, I'd probably allow dwarves a feat to use axes and hammers in place of blades. Can't think of many obvious switches like this though.

Mewtarthio
2010-02-11, 11:41 AM
"Broken or damaged," you say?

...Hm, so what if you were to, say, shave off a tiny piece of your bonded blade, then sell the "slightly nicked" blade to a magic item salesman, only to use the retained piece to get the sword back once you were a safe distance away? :smallamused:

Tiki Snakes
2010-02-11, 11:45 AM
"Broken or damaged," you say?

...Hm, so what if you were to, say, shave off a tiny piece of your bonded blade, then sell the "slightly nicked" blade to a magic item salesman, only to use the retained piece to get the sword back once you were a safe distance away? :smallamused:

Your Dm would rule on that, of course. Depending on how amusing he finds this, it'd either work (enraging the Merchant and his guild, perhaps, depending on how it works.) and net you a little money for nothing.

OR

The little shard would dissappear to refit itself into the main blade, safely repairing the damaged blade. Happy merchant.