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FishAreWet
2010-02-10, 02:07 PM
Assume I'm riding my animal companion, who is also my special mount. I have a +50 modifier to both Ride and Handle Animal. I've this my animal every Trick. If I want to use Trample(the feat!), who takes the action?


When you attempt to overrun an opponent while mounted, your target may not choose to avoid you. Your mount may make one hoof attack against any target you knock down, gaining the standard +4 bonus on attack rolls against prone targets.

It says you but I'm not moving, right? I'm controlling the mount as a free action, right? Does the mount make an Overrun attempt or do I?

I think I'm just generally confused about actions while riding a mount. I assume that the rider and the mount act as two separate entities in combat but it takes a move action to direct the mount, correct? Animal companions are a free action however, right? Then why do some classes have the ability to grant the rider a full round attack after the mount moves? Can't anyone riding an Animal companion already do this?

BRC
2010-02-10, 02:24 PM
Assume I'm riding my animal companion, who is also my special mount. I have a +50 modifier to both Ride and Handle Animal. I've this my animal every Trick. If I want to use Trample(the feat!), who takes the action?



It says you but I'm not moving, right? I'm controlling the mount as a free action, right? Does the mount make an Overrun attempt or do I?

I think I'm just generally confused about actions while riding a mount. I assume that the rider and the mount act as two separate entities in combat but it takes a move action to direct the mount, correct? Animal companions are a free action however, right? Then why do some classes have the ability to grant the rider a full round attack after the mount moves? Can't anyone riding an Animal companion already do this?

Think about it like this. A combat round is 6 seconds, that's total, not individually. The actions are happening fairly simultenously. For game purposes everybody is taking turns, but in-world you arn't. It's not like one person get's six seconds of action, then can't move or do anything except dodge and make AoO's while other people get their six seconds.

When you direct your animal companion, it's a free action to actually say "Animal companion, go over there", but the clock is still ticking. When you get over there, you don't have time to do a full attack, you used up that time waiting for your animal companion to carry you over.
It's the same way somebody riding a horse can't direct their horse to move 60 feet, dismount as a free action with a DC 20 ride check, then run 30 feet.


As for you're first question, the SRD says this



.
Mounted Overrun (Trample)

If you attempt an overrun while mounted, your mount makes the Strength check to determine the success or failure of the overrun attack (and applies its size modifier, rather than yours). If you have the Trample feat and attempt an overrun while mounted, your target may not choose to avoid you, and if you knock your opponent prone with the overrun, your mount may make one hoof attack against your opponent.

FishAreWet
2010-02-10, 02:28 PM
That almost makes sense. I think you're saying something like, "You can't have the mount move then act accordingly all in one turn."

But can't a barbarian pick up a halfing on his turn, then run 40ft, then next in initiative is the halfing, and he runs 40ft?

Lin Bayaseda
2010-02-10, 02:30 PM
To put it simply, it's a free action for your to give the command (assuming your Ride skill is good enough), but it still takes a move action for the animal to follow up on the command. Of course, if your Ride skill is bad, then a move action is lost on giving the command and yet another move action on performing it.


But can't a barbarian pick up a halfing on his turn, then run 40ft, then next in initiative is the halfing, and he runs 40ft?We're getting dangerously close to the Commoner Railgun here :smallsmile:

BRC
2010-02-10, 02:35 PM
That almost makes sense. I think you're saying something like, "You can't have the mount move then act accordingly all in one turn."

But can't a barbarian pick up a halfing on his turn, then run 40ft, then next in initiative is the halfing, and he runs 40ft?
Nope, that would be silly.

Think about it this way, two Barbarians, each with very very high strength. Barbarian A picks up Barbarian B and runs 40 feet, then drops him as a free action. Barbarian B then picks up Barbarian A and runs 40 feet.
It simply doesn't make sense (especially since they could both just take two move actions, but you get what I'm saying).

FishAreWet
2010-02-10, 02:44 PM
I understand the ambiguity of turn sand time in combat and how some things are hard to explain because of this. So other then, "it's silly because it's hard to explain in the ambiguity of time," why can't they do it?

BRC
2010-02-10, 03:05 PM
I understand the ambiguity of turn sand time in combat and how some things are hard to explain because of this. So other then, "it's silly because it's hard to explain in the ambiguity of time," why can't they do it?
Alright, think about it like this.

People riding a normal Warhorse with no special class features cannot move and take a full round action, you agree to this correct?
SRD says


With a DC 5 Ride check, you can guide your mount with your knees so as to use both hands to attack or defend yourself. This is a free action.
So, according to you, either everybody can move and take a full round action if they succeed on a DC5 ride check, OR you cannot ride a mount and take a full round action in one turn without a special class feature.

If the former, it means the special class features do nothing except make you auto-pass a DC5 ride check.

Now, the Rules are actually rather unhelpful on the subject. One way makes more sense realistically, but plenty of rules couteract realism with no trouble. Also, as far as I can tell, somebody can take a move action and then attack, but the person they attacked (Who rolled a lower initative) can make a Full Attack. I'd say it's up to DM interpretation.

Starbuck_II
2010-02-10, 03:10 PM
Now, the Rules are actually rather unhelpful on the subject. One way makes more sense realistically, but plenty of rules couteract realism with no trouble. Also, as far as I can tell, somebody can take a move action and then attack, but the person they attacked (Who rolled a lower initative) can make a Full Attack. I'd say it's up to DM interpretation.

You can move + full attack. Till they errated Scout: it was a popular Skirmish qualifier (they even said this was why so the designers believe you can).

FishAreWet
2010-02-10, 03:13 PM
I get it now. This (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#mountedCombat) explains it well.


When you attack a creature smaller than your mount that is on foot, you get the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground. If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you canít make a full attack. Even at your mountís full speed, you donít take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted.


You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a -4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed), at a -8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally

I understand it now.

ericgrau
2010-02-10, 03:14 PM
It's only a move action to tell the horse to do a trick. Otherwise you both act simultaneously. The above explains it well. The ride rules say what kind of action everything else is. Most things are free actions or not an action or part of another action. At least one can even be done when it's not your turn. Some are move actions.