2010 Olympic Games [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

skywalker

2010-02-13, 03:46 AM

Is anyone else unimpressed by the opening ceremony thus far? I'm tempted to change the channel. I take it back.

That said, my full support is with the USA.

Mine too!

And while I found the Opening Ceremony not nearly as epic or downright impressive as the Chinese one from '08, I liked it more. According to the TV, the intention was to make a "uniquely Canadian" OC, which was inclusive of the First Nations and other Aboriginals, and put forward the "Welcoming Canadian Spirit" that Canadians are so proud of. I think it succeeded. It felt much more authentic (those were actual First Nations people!) than the Chinese OC. I especially liked the slam poetry. That guy was awesome.

Olympic Games? Are they not just the winter Olympics?

Well, they are the only Olympic Games in 2010. So I think the title is quite accurate.

Generally, I freaking love the Olympics. I don't love that they were originally created as a way to get revenge for a lost war (look up why the athletes compete as national teams instead of individually), or that they are sometimes still bastions of nationalism, but I think most of the time, the Games have become a place to have pride in one's country and athletes, but also to be in awe of and respect the incredible performances of athletes from other countries.

I love watching Americans compete for glory period, as well as the Canadian hockey team, and I loved watching all the small delegations in the procession tonight, the one-person teams with the flag-bearing athlete obviously so proud to represent their country on the global stage. I will also be rooting heavily for Georgia as, well,

RIP Nodar Kumaritashvili.

Amiel

2010-02-13, 04:21 AM

Eh, the bars raising prices is to be expected

Not when it's held in China, it's not; can remember reading about one litre pints costing 80 cents (though I can't exactly recall whether it was US or its RMB equivalent) in bars. No wonder people wanted the Olympics to be over and done with so they could get smashed.

"The Olympics? Never heard of it, I just want to get drunk"

Also, the Chinese Olympics Opening Ceremony>all; although I liked the Chinese Paralympics Opening Ceremony more, it had more heart and was emotionally effective.

Go the Australians!

Boo

2010-02-13, 05:57 AM

Honestly, the fiddling was what I really liked. That and the screw-up with the hydrolics. Sorry, but that was very funny to see. I'm Canadian; I can laugh! I also would like to say I giggled at Harper. He looked either bored or asleep until the Canadian team arrived. (Note: I am not making fun of him as a politician, but as a camera prone spectator)

I especially liked the slam poetry. That guy was awesome.I was pissed that I missed his name. I saw another one of his poems about a cancer patient he was beside while in a hospital. It could bring a monkey to tears it was so powerful! I've been trying to find him for months, but when he appears finally I miss the name! AHHH!!

Wait a minute... google is near... opening ceremony is over...

HA! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VrZE8MCnIA)

RIP Nodar Kumaritashvili.

Indeed. That was bleeding awful the way he died. The moment of silence was rather bad too.

"Let us have a moment of silence for Nodar Kumaritashvili..."
*1 minute passes*
*happy ceremonial music booms on instantly to signal end of moment*

Gawd dammit guys, you couldn't say "Let us remember Nodar and keep his dream alive" or something? Ease us out of a moment of silence, don't throw us into a parade (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyIbK1M5lXA)! Sorry... it just got me all angry and mad that they did that (regardless of schedule).

Having said all this... let's NOT compare the Canadian ceremony to the Beijing ceremony. That was summer, this is winter. That, and it's not much of a contest...

THAC0

2010-02-13, 01:58 PM

Plus, Canada only spent what, 10% of what China did? I think they did quite well.

Also, nothing beats clogging with firecrackers strapped to your feet!

PhoeKun

2010-02-13, 02:15 PM

I found the opening ceremony to be a very mixed bag. Some elements I felt were actually quite neat (certainly everything towards the beginning of the events), but the slam poet shot himself in the foot with the Zed commentary. I'll admit that's something of a hot button issue for me, but considering that there's really only two countries involved in that particular debate, it felt an awful lot like a potshot at the US. Which... come on, it's the Olympics. Just say it how you say it, and leave everyone else's opinion on the subject out of it.

And then they butchered Leonard Cohen. And while we're on the subject, go look up the lyrics to that song, and then tell me it's at all appropriate for something like this.

Other than that and the malfunction, it wasn't bad. I liked China's a lot more, though, and I think that had at least as much to do with the fact that it had a cohesive artistic direction as it did the higher budget. Which is not exactly Canada's fault - they had an awful lot of stuff to convey in not an especially long time.

zeratul

2010-02-13, 02:19 PM

So far, I'm likinmg what I've seen. In particular, the awesome dancing with fire crackers/scottish-fiddle segment was one of the coolest things I've seen in a while. I'm mostly looking forward to watching Shaun White, Kelly Clark, and the rest of the US snowboarding team bring in considerable amounts of gold :smallwink:.

Winthur

2010-02-13, 05:12 PM

Yo Simon Ammann, I'mma really happy for you and I'mma let you finish, but Adam Małysz is one of the best ski jumpers of all time! :smallwink:

Anyway, go Poland! We're off to a good start. :smallsmile:

Rhydeble

2010-02-13, 06:26 PM

Go Sven Go

first gold medal for the dutch ice-skating favorite xD xD xD

THAC0

2010-02-13, 07:41 PM

Go Sven Go

first gold medal for the dutch ice-skating favorite xD xD xD

Stupid time delays.

Xyk

2010-02-13, 10:29 PM

Apolo Ohno is a BAMF.

That is all.

golentan

2010-02-13, 11:37 PM

Curse you NBC!!! Talking about how if Jenn Heil wins gold tonight, you'll hear it all through Vancouver.

Now I have the horrible mental image of the entire city chanting "HEIL!!!"

With all sorts of assorted horrible, horrible images accompanying it.

I am a terrible, terrible person. Good games so far, I think.

reorith

2010-02-14, 12:01 AM

am i the only person watching it for the injuries and deaths?

PhoeKun

2010-02-14, 12:04 AM

am i the only person watching it for the injuries and deaths?

Yes, you are.

golentan

2010-02-14, 12:12 AM

am i the only person watching it for the injuries and deaths?

That's horrid.

I really hope you are, but not as much as I hope you're lying.

skywalker

2010-02-14, 04:19 PM

"Let us have a moment of silence for Nodar Kumaritashvili..."
*1 minute passes*
*happy ceremonial music booms on instantly to signal end of moment*

Gawd dammit guys, you couldn't say "Let us remember Nodar and keep his dream alive" or something? Ease us out of a moment of silence, don't throw us into a parade (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyIbK1M5lXA)! Sorry... it just got me all angry and mad that they did that (regardless of schedule).

Yeah, that was terrible. Watching luge right now, and while there are allusions, word seems to have come that the announcers are not to say "death," or "Nodar," or etc.

I found the opening ceremony to be a very mixed bag. Some elements I felt were actually quite neat (certainly everything towards the beginning of the events), but the slam poet shot himself in the foot with the Zed commentary. I'll admit that's something of a hot button issue for me, but considering that there's really only two countries involved in that particular debate, it felt an awful lot like a potshot at the US. Which... come on, it's the Olympics. Just say it how you say it, and leave everyone else's opinion on the subject out of it.

I considered it good-natured, neighborly ribbing. Referring to the US in your ceremony is better, IMO, than holding your events at 8AM local time so that American TV stations get their primetime coverage. Everybody knows that the US wags the dog at the Olympics, might as well make a joke about it.

And then they butchered Leonard Cohen. And while we're on the subject, go look up the lyrics to that song, and then tell me it's at all appropriate for something like this.

Terrible, terrible choice indeed.

Pika...

2010-02-14, 04:24 PM

I am just glad it is not in China again.

The cheating was shameful, and no one could do anything about it due to that government.

Dr. Bath

2010-02-14, 05:00 PM

Generally, I freaking love the Olympics. I don't love that they were originally created as a way to get revenge for a lost war (look up why the athletes compete as national teams instead of individually), or that they are sometimes still bastions of nationalism, but I think most of the time, the Games have become a place to have pride in one's country and athletes, but also to be in awe of and respect the incredible performances of athletes from other countries.

Well, I'm assuming that you're talking about the modern Olympics, since the Greeks certainly didn't compete as national teams. But the olympic revival was started in Shropshire (Much Wenlock, a really pretty town), England, by the local physician so that the locals got some exercise. Admittedly it was then adapted by a crazy French Baron, to which you may be refering, but he did it mostly as a way of getting the French to do some exercise. Saying it was revenge seems a bit much to me.

@^ Typical! The first games in ages that the UK do well at and people say it was rigged! :smalltongue:

Also: Eddie the Eagle was the single greatest ski jumper of all time, fact.

Zar Peter

2010-02-14, 05:00 PM

I hope the weather will allow the skiing competitions. These are the only chances for Austria to gain medals. Well, these and Ski-jump.
Go Gregor Schlierenzauer!

And go Bode Miller, I just like the guy!

CWater

2010-02-14, 08:02 PM

Hee...First I wasn't sure if I cared to watch the Winter Olympics at all this time, but here I find myself glaring at the TV screen (plus reading related threads such as this) even if it is already 3.00 AM here where I live.:smallbiggrin:
...
YAY!!! GOAAAAL!! I'm watching womens ice-hockey Finland-Russia. GO LIONESSES!!!

The Extinguisher

2010-02-14, 08:21 PM

I like the Olympics because it's fun to have pride in your country as you watch them compete against the world.

I hate the Olympics because it's not about that anymore. It's about money and more money. How much can we throw at it, and how much gain we get. The excessive opening ceremony is pretty much the poster child behind the reason why the games suck.

Sila Prirode

2010-02-14, 09:26 PM

So, I'm from Croatia, we got ourself a first bronze medal (Jakov Fak, biathlon).
Just dropping a comment so you could know which country to look after, we got the greatest athletes in all of the world. Which I can even prove :smallbiggrin:

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2010-02-14, 09:38 PM

Just thought I would say... :smallamused:

Canada just got it's first gold ever on home soil! :smallcool:

Maximum Zersk

2010-02-14, 09:39 PM

PS: sorry if I sounded jaded, just sometimes it feels like, as one local writer put it, "the Olympics are a party in their backyard that Vancouver residents weren't invited to."

I've found that funny. Here, we have people from all over the world coming to Vancouver to watch the Olympics, and people in the country, in the province can't come. That, or they don't want to.

Plus, Canada only spent what, 10% of what China did? I think they did quite well.

Also, nothing beats clogging with firecrackers strapped to your feet!

We spent the rest on the safety fees. :smalltongue:

THAC0

2010-02-14, 11:09 PM

We spent the rest on the safety fees. :smalltongue:

I'm doing clogging with my sixth graders, and wanted to show a clip of that. I think I might have to include a "DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME" warning, lol!

Don Julio Anejo

2010-02-19, 06:47 PM

I take back my words about the olympics :smile: Theyre awesome! It's four PM, I have no class for another week and I'm in a club with a bunch of random Brazillians getting free drinks :tongue:

PS: Brazillian chicks are hot :amused:

Lupy

2010-02-21, 09:47 PM

Please allow me to say: USA! USA! USA!

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2010-02-21, 10:12 PM

So, it's kinda too bad the USA-Canada hockey game today was indefinately post-poned, RIIIIIGHT!?!?!? :smallmad:

skywalker

2010-02-21, 10:43 PM

So, it's kinda too bad the USA-Canada hockey game today was indefinately post-poned, RIIIIIGHT!?!?!? :smallmad:

Sorry. USA just wanted it more?

Canada spent way too much time in the box, and Brodeur wasn't exactly inspired. If I were Canada, I'd be in favor of putting in Luongo. Marty got seriously outplayed tonight, we got Miller shelled. A little comparison: Miller stopped 42 of 45 for a 93%, Marty stopped 18 of 23 for an 82%.

Canada let USA play their game. Shouldn't have done that. Should've outskilled them. No way USA can hang if Canada cycles the Shark Line and the Kid Line (Sid, Toews, Staal) all night. One thing I notice, Canada doesn't have a true 4th line, and Crosby got 4 minutes less than he's used to on the ice (and he had the most time of any forward). Canada needs to buckle down and put the people who produce on the ice more often.

Oh, and Chris Pronger is weaksauce.

arguskos

2010-02-21, 10:47 PM

So, the Men's Biathalon today was hardcore. And, the dude from Slovakia took bronze! First time a Slovakian has medaled in Biathalon ever, and it was an Olympic bronze! Go dude!

Note: I literally saw the sport for the first time when that guy won, but I still think it's worthy of notation.

THAC0

2010-02-21, 11:00 PM

Shas aia Toriia

2010-02-21, 11:02 PM

So, it's kinda too bad the USA-Canada hockey game today was indefinately post-poned, RIIIIIGHT!?!?!? :smallmad:

Yeah. Shame, seeing as I was really looking forward to showing up those Americans. RAAAAGE!!!!

arguskos

2010-02-21, 11:02 PM

I'm just hoping that Teela and the rest of the American's can break their bad-luck streak for the relay.
Yeaaaaah, he didn't do so hot with the standing shooting, did he? Shame too, cause he was doing really great at that point, but man, that shooting round just ended him.

Eldan

2010-02-22, 06:54 AM

So, did Switzerland just get a guy with four olympic gold medals? Yes, we did. :smallamused:

Normally, I couldn't care less about the olympics, but that's just fun to rub into people's faces.

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom

2010-02-22, 11:29 AM

Sorry. USA just wanted it more?

Canada spent way too much time in the box, and Brodeur wasn't exactly inspired. If I were Canada, I'd be in favor of putting in Luongo. Marty got seriously outplayed tonight, we got Miller shelled. A little comparison: Miller stopped 42 of 45 for a 93%, Marty stopped 18 of 23 for an 82%.

Canada let USA play their game. Shouldn't have done that. Should've outskilled them. No way USA can hang if Canada cycles the Shark Line and the Kid Line (Sid, Toews, Staal) all night. One thing I notice, Canada doesn't have a true 4th line, and Crosby got 4 minutes less than he's used to on the ice (and he had the most time of any forward). Canada needs to buckle down and put the people who produce on the ice more often.

Oh, and Chris Pronger is weaksauce.

One, I think it's clearly been proven that Canada isn't as good a team as we were led to believe coming into the games Now there's a chance that one of the heavy favorites (either Canada or Russia) won't even get a medal. I"m not sure that the US has been underrated since they still have many young players, and they really haven't been truly tested, or put in a tough spot yet. I'm not sure putting Luongo in is the answer. He looked good in the showing he had. But being the backup may not have a great affect on him in the end. That, and he's very feast or famine. There are days he stands on his head and does phenomenal, but when he's not right on, he lets in 5 and 6 goals a game regularly in those instances in NHL games. I wouldn't take too much stock in save percentage to be honest. I think it's a highly over-rated stat in hockey, and good to great defensive play means more in the long run. Production from other lines of the Canadian team isn't the issue either, as they tied the US for most goals scored in the prelim rounds. I don't think the Suisse will be able to beat the US in the second round, so I think the dark horse in the tournament has become the Czech Republic. I think they have what it takes to be able Finland in the second round game (they play the worst team in the field in Belarus in their first round game, so should be no problem for them). Sweden looks to be the clear favorite right now.

Eldritch Knight

2010-02-22, 11:36 AM

SensFan

2010-02-22, 11:40 AM

Now there's a chance that one of the heavy favorites (either Canada or Russia) won't even get a medal.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that its certain one of the two won't medal. From what I read this morning, Canada and Russia meet in the quarters.

I do still think that Canada is still one of the favorites to win, though. A Canada win leaves the other medals up for grabs, since I think we need to go through Russia and Sweden just to reach the finals.

Eldritch Knight

2010-02-22, 11:50 AM

The Hockey Gold is Canada's. Tell me, how are you going to be able to find 20 pieces of 160 gm medals in a country this vast? Go ahead, try us. :P

Telonius

2010-02-22, 11:51 AM

US can't be as sloppy against the rest of the field as they were against Canada though. Canada out-played us most of the time, but just couldn't put it in the net. Miller put in an astounding performance, and that's really what saved us.

Gotta say though, that was some exciting game! Kept me on the edge of my seat until the last minute.

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom

2010-02-22, 11:51 AM

It was a great game, but the best games are yet to come. I agree that Sweden is one to watch, but there's a lot more to come, so it may not be that easy to make the call just yet.

True, there should be some very good games after the first medal round eliminations occur. If everything shakes out the way I think they will in that round, we'll have US v Switzerland, Finland v. Czech Republic, Russia v. Canada, and Sweden v Slovakia/Norway (doesn't really matter which sacrificial lamb comes out of that game). The two dark horses are the Suisse and Czech Republic. I really don't think that Switzerland quite has the talent to take down the US, but they have had some good showings, so it should at least be a game. After Finland's performance last night, I really think the Czechs have a chance at beating the Fins, although I won't be surprised if Finland wins the game. That one is probably a real toss up in my mind, as the Czechs have played a tough round robin. Sweden should advance easily, and the real game to watch will be Russia v. Canada. The winner there will go and face Sweden in one of the semi's, and the loser goes home. So there's a whole lot riding on that game. Whoever goes to face Sweden in that semi will have a real tough game on their hands, and Canada losing yesterday really put a tough road ahead of them (as it would have Russia had they lost yesterday). The the other semi will probably end up US v. Finland/Czechs. So we could have a repeat of the last gold medal game again in Sweden v Finalnd, or well have a surprise US/Czechs make it there. Any of the three in Canada, Russia and Sweden could come out of that side of the bracket, but Sweden the best shot at it.

UnChosenOne

2010-02-22, 12:27 PM

Local media seems to think that we allowed Swedens to win, as part of tactical plan. Could be true, or our hockey team could also be that weak...

skywalker

2010-02-22, 06:44 PM

One, I think it's clearly been proven that Canada isn't as good a team as we were led to believe coming into the games Now there's a chance that one of the heavy favorites (either Canada or Russia) won't even get a medal. I"m not sure that the US has been underrated since they still have many young players, and they really haven't been truly tested, or put in a tough spot yet. I'm not sure putting Luongo in is the answer. He looked good in the showing he had. But being the backup may not have a great affect on him in the end. That, and he's very feast or famine. There are days he stands on his head and does phenomenal, but when he's not right on, he lets in 5 and 6 goals a game regularly in those instances in NHL games. I wouldn't take too much stock in save percentage to be honest. I think it's a highly over-rated stat in hockey, and good to great defensive play means more in the long run. Production from other lines of the Canadian team isn't the issue either, as they tied the US for most goals scored in the prelim rounds. I don't think the Suisse will be able to beat the US in the second round, so I think the dark horse in the tournament has become the Czech Republic. I think they have what it takes to be able Finland in the second round game (they play the worst team in the field in Belarus in their first round game, so should be no problem for them). Sweden looks to be the clear favorite right now.

Excuse me but, if none of those things are the issue, what is the issue? It's not hard to tie the US for most goals scored when the other two teams you play are Switzerland and Norway.

If you hadn't noticed, Brodeur was very "feast or famine" last night. All great goalies have terrible games once in a while, the trick to being a great Olympic goalie is not having one during the Olympics. But 5 goals on 23 shots? Sorry. Total weaksauce. I don't care who you are, you deserve to get pulled for that. Also, if you don't evaluate goaltenders based on save percentage, what do you evaluate them based on?

The production is an issue, you can get production with only one guy getting single digit minutes against Switzerland and Norway, you can't against teams like USA and Russia.

I completely fail to understand how going into one of the last games of the prelims with a huge jump in the standings on the line against Team Canada in Vancouver isn't being tested in a tough spot.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that its certain one of the two won't medal. From what I read this morning, Canada and Russia meet in the quarters.

You are correct.

True, there should be some very good games after the first medal round eliminations occur. If everything shakes out the way I think they will in that round, we'll have US v Switzerland, Finland v. Czech Republic, Russia v. Canada, and Sweden v Slovakia/Norway (doesn't really matter which sacrificial lamb comes out of that game). The two dark horses are the Suisse and Czech Republic. I really don't think that Switzerland quite has the talent to take down the US, but they have had some good showings, so it should at least be a game. After Finland's performance last night, I really think the Czechs have a chance at beating the Fins, although I won't be surprised if Finland wins the game. That one is probably a real toss up in my mind, as the Czechs have played a tough round robin. Sweden should advance easily, and the real game to watch will be Russia v. Canada. The winner there will go and face Sweden in one of the semi's, and the loser goes home. So there's a whole lot riding on that game. Whoever goes to face Sweden in that semi will have a real tough game on their hands, and Canada losing yesterday really put a tough road ahead of them (as it would have Russia had they lost yesterday). The the other semi will probably end up US v. Finland/Czechs. So we could have a repeat of the last gold medal game again in Sweden v Finalnd, or well have a surprise US/Czechs make it there. Any of the three in Canada, Russia and Sweden could come out of that side of the bracket, but Sweden the best shot at it.

Slovakia is not merely a lamb for Sweden. Both halves of Czechoslovakia are tougher than they seem. Russia is stronger than Sweden, and Slovakia surprised them.

Local media seems to think that we allowed Swedens to win, as part of tactical plan. Could be true, or our hockey team could also be that weak...

It's distasteful and unconscionable, but that actually makes some sense. Knowing where everyone else is likely to end up, Finland is unlikely to score enough goals last night to take number 1 spot. They know they're +9 on goal differential, which means Sweden must score 6 to push them out of 4th place. They are unlikely to score enough goals to take 1st themselves, so why not stay in 4th while keeping Sweden from taking first. This puts Russia, the Slovaks, and Canada all in Sweden's bracket. The Finns get to hide (comparatively) in a bracket with USA and Czech Republic.

Um, what else...

Oh, Canada needs a serious attitude adjustment or Russia will absolutely eat their lunch.

I disagree with people who say the US is playing sloppily, they did very well in their first two games and it wasn't sloppiness against Canada, it was playing against a very good team with a lot of guys who aren't afraid to pull the trigger. USA gave up a lot fewer odd-man rushes and other scoring chances than they did in the first two games. They've also got the Vezina front-runner in net, which really helps.

snoopy13a

2010-02-22, 07:00 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that its certain one of the two won't medal. From what I read this morning, Canada and Russia meet in the quarters.

Assuming that Canada beats Germany of course.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2010-02-22, 07:43 PM

Assuming that Canada beats Germany of course.

A relatively safe assumption. Unless, of course, the German goalie's name rhymes with Hiller or Miller...

CWater

2010-02-22, 08:03 PM

Oh, I truly hope that our hockey team just had a bad day... or that it really was somekind of tactical plan as some suggest or...something...
...
...
...BUT it still doesn't change the fact that we LOST to SWEDEN!!! 3-0!!! Oooh...the humiliation...

:smallbiggrin:
Seriously speaking, the games have been quite entertaining this time and as a result I have spent many nights watching them instead of sleeping. (I'll take a nap on the following evening:smallsmile:)

Today I'm planning to watch figure skating, and before that women's hockey semifinal FIN-CAN. Even though I am pretty sure the Canadians will crush us like a bug.:smallamused: I'm just hoping that Finland can put up a decent fight ...and that the final score will not be worse than 0-5...

The Extinguisher

2010-02-22, 08:26 PM

Eh, we're already pretty much guaranteed gold in women's hockey, so we can take a hit. Canada's teams have been doing terrible in hockey for a while now.

Eldritch Knight

2010-02-22, 09:14 PM

CWater

2010-02-22, 10:00 PM

Worse than 5-0? I predict it will be EXACTLY that. (5-0, that is.) :)

And 5-0 it became! You truly are an oracle!:smallbiggrin:

SensFan

2010-02-23, 12:04 AM

Assuming that Canada beats Germany of course.
Yeah, that's not an assumption. There's is no possible way Canada loses to Germany. They trounced Norway, outplayed the Swiss but ran into a hot goalie, and outplayed the US but ran into a hot goalie (and had their goalie stink up the joint).

And 5-0 it became! You truly are an oracle!:smallbiggrin:
Don't feel too bad about that game. I didn't watch it, and don't know how good Finland is or isn't, but Canada was 45:2 in terms of goal differencial through 3 games. The Women's Hockey really is a 1-team sport.

Walrus

2010-02-23, 12:14 AM

The US women's hockey team is the only one that can push Canada. I wasn't aware of it until shortly before the Olympics started, but a girl I went to school with for 9 years is team Canada's goalie. I've never watched a hockey game on TV that had people I knew personally in it.

Worira

2010-02-23, 06:31 PM

The cherry blossoms are beautiful this time of year.

Shas aia Toriia

2010-02-23, 06:39 PM

No! We (Canada) are only in 5th for medals right now!
CURSE YOU RUSSIA!!!

Jayngfet

2010-02-23, 07:58 PM

Don Julio Anejo

2010-02-23, 10:01 PM

Personally, as a canadaian team, I think our team had some serious flaws going into the vs USA game. You could tell by the way they were playing they didn't have a huge amount of experience with each other. They didn't seem to know where each other would be some of the time and that looked like it costed them goals.
Eh, Russia is worse. You've got all these great players out there and you end up with...
"Kovalchuk to Ovechkin... back to Kovalchuk... to Malkin... back to Ovechkin (who's checked by at least 3 players even if he's nowhere near the puck and so is probably better off as a decoy rather than someone to actually pass to)... to Kovalchuk... Malkin is open with an empty net... pass to Markov... slapshot! Great save by Generic Goalie #2!"

Yeah, seriously, we can't pass worth a damn so we always end up sending it to the blueline for unscreened, useless slapshots with no chance of scoring or even a rebound. The few times we tried to play like Canadians or Swedes (behind the net or centering pass to a forward in the slot) have ended up in either goals or almost goals and brilliant saves (e.g. Halak on Malkin).

PS: awesome goal by Germany on Canada near the end. Luongo almost got it too, just couldn't angle the stick enough.

PPS: okay, tomorrow is going to be fun :smile:

skywalker

2010-02-24, 01:03 AM

Eh, Russia is worse. You've got all these great players out there and you end up with...
"Kovalchuk to Ovechkin... back to Kovalchuk... to Malkin... back to Ovechkin (who's checked by at least 3 players even if he's nowhere near the puck and so is probably better off as a decoy rather than someone to actually pass to)... to Kovalchuk... Malkin is open with an empty net... pass to Markov... slapshot! Great save by Generic Goalie #2!"

Or, you know, Ovechkin checking a defenseman with one elbow, carrying the puck with his other arm, and scoring a goal from about 4 feet out as he staggers past the goal into the glass. The man is a hockey jabberwocky.

Yeah, seriously, we can't pass worth a damn so we always end up sending it to the blueline for unscreened, useless slapshots with no chance of scoring or even a rebound. The few times we tried to play like Canadians or Swedes (behind the net or centering pass to a forward in the slot) have ended up in either goals or almost goals and brilliant saves (e.g. Halak on Malkin).

I prefer the North American style. I think it wins championships in the upper echelons (it's been winning in the NHL for years), because the goalies are just too good these days for you to beat them with skill very often. Sure, Malkin and Ovechkin and Crosby and those guys do it on occasion, but it requires you to be determined enough, skilled enough, and lucky enough to beat the goalie. "Crash" only requires determined and lucky.

Don Julio Anejo

2010-02-24, 03:51 AM

Or, you know, Ovechkin checking a defenseman with one elbow, carrying the puck with his other arm, and scoring a goal from about 4 feet out as he staggers past the goal into the glass.
...or going around three players, falling on the ice and scoring while already down and sliding past the net, but yeah :smile:

As an individual player, he's awesome, along with most of the Russian team. But when they set up in the attack zone... it's pretty sad, all the shots are from the point and worse of all, they're completely unscreened. All you really need to do is collapse your defense around the net and there's no way the Russian team can score without, well, playing NHL style. Hell, you wouldn't even score on a beer league goalie like that.

I prefer the North American style. I think it wins championships in the upper echelons (it's been winning in the NHL for years), because the goalies are just too good these days for you to beat them with skill very often. Sure, Malkin and Ovechkin and Crosby and those guys do it on occasion, but it requires you to be determined enough, skilled enough, and lucky enough to beat the goalie. "Crash" only requires determined and lucky.
Agreed that it's more effective, although I still prefer the European style. It's really fun to watch.

Manga Shoggoth

2010-02-24, 04:57 AM

I've found that funny. Here, we have people from all over the world coming to Vancouver to watch the Olympics, and people in the country, in the province can't come. That, or they don't want to.

At the moment I have no interest in the Olympics (killjoy that I am). My wife, however, is watching the curling avidly. My daughter is interested as well - or, more accurately, keeps asking what is going on.

However in 2012 the Olympics come to London. Then I will really start to get annoyed. Of all the people I know who live and work in London, not one actually wants1 the Olympics here.

I may be wrong, of course. It may all go smoothly without messing up everyone who has to live and work here.

1: I don't know anyone who is going to be making a fortune renting out their spare room, though...

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom

2010-02-24, 11:25 AM

Or, you know, Ovechkin checking a defenseman with one elbow, carrying the puck with his other arm, and scoring a goal from about 4 feet out as he staggers past the goal into the glass. The man is a hockey jabberwocky.

I prefer the North American style. I think it wins championships in the upper echelons (it's been winning in the NHL for years), because the goalies are just too good these days for you to beat them with skill very often. Sure, Malkin and Ovechkin and Crosby and those guys do it on occasion, but it requires you to be determined enough, skilled enough, and lucky enough to beat the goalie. "Crash" only requires determined and lucky.

I don't know that you can really lump North American style together as a whole when the NHL has two very distinct styles. Play in the Eastern Conference is much more open, and greatly benefits faster skaters, whereas the Western Conference, plays a much more defensive style of game, less end to end, more neutral zone traps, and the like.

Telonius

2010-02-24, 12:03 PM

Or, you know, Ovechkin checking a defenseman with one elbow, carrying the puck with his other arm, and scoring a goal from about 4 feet out as he staggers past the goal into the glass. The man is a hockey jabberwocky.

Seriously, when you can throw a check that just about decapitates Jaromir Jagr, and have him literally praising you for how good of a check it was afterwards ... Yeah, I'm looking forward to the Olympics being over and him being on our team again. (Go Caps!) :smallbiggrin:

Don Julio Anejo

2010-02-24, 02:36 PM

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom

2010-02-24, 02:50 PM

New Jersey begs to differ :amused:

That's solely due to Lemaire being the head coach there now. Having seen him in action for almost a decade here as the Wild coach, I am quite familiar with it. Even though his style of play was more in line with the rest of the Western Conference over that period, his game plans for the most part hindered Marian Gaborik's play (along with his injuries) with the speed he had. The fact remains the Eastern Conference as a whole plays a far more open style of play focused on speed, and the Western Conference plays a far more physical, grind it out type of game.

Shas aia Toriia

2010-02-24, 08:09 PM

4-1 Canada end of the first.
YEAH!!! :smallbiggrin:

SensFan

2010-02-24, 08:39 PM

So Canada moves on to the Semis for all intents and purposes.

Jayngfet

2010-02-24, 08:53 PM

4-1 Canada end of the first.
YEAH!!! :smallbiggrin:

Was it ever a question?:smallamused:

skywalker

2010-02-25, 12:09 AM

I don't know that you can really lump North American style together as a whole when the NHL has two very distinct styles. Play in the Eastern Conference is much more open, and greatly benefits faster skaters, whereas the Western Conference, plays a much more defensive style of game, less end to end, more neutral zone traps, and the like.

My response to this involves my response to the next one, so I'll hold off.

That's solely due to Lemaire being the head coach there now. Having seen him in action for almost a decade here as the Wild coach, I am quite familiar with it. Even though his style of play was more in line with the rest of the Western Conference over that period, his game plans for the most part hindered Marian Gaborik's play (along with his injuries) with the speed he had. The fact remains the Eastern Conference as a whole plays a far more open style of play focused on speed, and the Western Conference plays a far more physical, grind it out type of game.

No, it's really not. New Jersey has been playing boring hockey for years, that's why they hired Lemaire.

Oh, and while I was not referring to the "grind" style you put on the Western Conference, it is interesting to note that 7 of the past 10 Cups have been won by the West or New Jersey, including a couple by the Wings (the most boring hockey in the world), but also the Stars and the Avalanche, who play (or played at the time) much looser, more finesse hockey than you seem to be indicating.

However, some of the most physical players in the league (the aforementioned Ovechkin?) play in the East. I wasn't referring to the "grind" style of certain NHL teams. I was referring to the "generate the most chances" theory of hockey that even the Eastern Conference subscribes to.

I'm simply talking about the more physical, more "towards the net" way that North Americans play. It is not necessarily a slower game, but while a lot of teams screen the goalie, North America tends to screen the goalie with one foot (or two!) in the crease. Note that putting a foot in the crease is a crease violation in Olympic hockey, yet the refs "missed" several of these during the game between the USA and Canada. I'm pretty confident I know where those refs came from... They are also physical in a different way, it seems to me.

One thing you tend to see is that European teams do a lot more hooking and slashing, North American teams do a lot more body checking (and cross checking).

Point is, you can play a neutral zone trap or end-to-end, and you'll still play a more "Crash" oriented game than the average European team.

UnChosenOne

2010-02-25, 12:10 AM

So we did win against Czech 2 - 0 .

skywalker

2010-02-25, 12:15 AM

So we did win against Czech 2 - 0 .

In a pretty pants way, to be honest.

No offense, but that was something I failed to mention in my "hate on international hockey"-fest:

Who comes up with the idiot rule that you have to stop and pick your helmet up during play? If I were that guy, I would make them tell me to pick it up. No way am I leaving the play like that. Silliest thing in the world to watch a guy turn his back and trod out of the play to go pick up a piece of equipment.

If you're going to make me pick up my stray equipment, you'd durn well better stop the play so I can do it. "We're going to make you play with one less player because your guy's chinstrap broke." Yeah, that's fair.

SensFan

2010-02-25, 12:37 AM

In a pretty pants way, to be honest.

No offense, but that was something I failed to mention in my "hate on international hockey"-fest:

Who comes up with the idiot rule that you have to stop and pick your helmet up during play? If I were that guy, I would make them tell me to pick it up. No way am I leaving the play like that. Silliest thing in the world to watch a guy turn his back and trod out of the play to go pick up a piece of equipment.

If you're going to make me pick up my stray equipment, you'd durn well better stop the play so I can do it. "We're going to make you play with one less player because your guy's chinstrap broke." Yeah, that's fair.
The Canadian Hockey League uses a rule that has the same intentions, but seems a little more reasonable. If your helmet falls off, you go to the bench, and someone else comes on.

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom

2010-02-25, 02:09 AM

North America tends to screen the goalie with one foot (or two!) in the crease. Note that putting a foot in the crease is a crease violation in Olympic hockey, yet the refs "missed" several of these during the game between the USA and Canada. I'm pretty confident I know where those refs came from... They are also physical in a different way, it seems to me.

As with USA hockey rules, it's only a crease violation if the offensive team has control of the puck. I'm not saying the calls weren't missed, but if there was no call, that may have been the reason. (FYI, I am a USA hockey official. Just started this year, but I've done almost 50 games here since mid November. The rules are a bit different for international and NHL, but if you do have a rules question, I can probably answer it).

Killer Angel

2010-02-25, 02:12 AM

Meh... and Italy continues in his worst performance since the last 20 (and more) years... :smallsigh:

SensFan

2010-02-25, 10:13 AM

As with USA hockey rules, it's only a crease violation if the offensive team has control of the puck. I'm not saying the calls weren't missed, but if there was no call, that may have been the reason. (FYI, I am a USA hockey official. Just started this year, but I've done almost 50 games here since mid November. The rules are a bit different for international and NHL, but if you do have a rules question, I can probably answer it).
I don't remember the details, since it was several days ago, but wasn't Brodeur literally backed into and knocked over leading up to one of the goals?

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom

2010-02-25, 10:31 AM

I don't remember the details, since it was several days ago, but wasn't Brodeur literally backed into and knocked over leading up to one of the goals?

Well, if an opposing player runs into the goalie while he's in the crease of his own volition, then it's a penalty for goaltender interference. But if he was forced into the goalie in the course of play by one of goalie's own teammates, then it's nothing. I might add that the crease violation isn't a penalty since I didn't do that before. It just forces a faceoff outside the zone.

SensFan

2010-02-25, 10:47 AM

Support for my theory that Canada practises voodoo magic against the Swedes if they are slated to play against them continues to accumulate.

Shas aia Toriia

2010-02-25, 06:47 PM

Yeah! Go Canada!
Shame we're not first place for gold medals anymore though. . .

SensFan

2010-02-25, 07:29 PM

Yeah! Go Canada!
Shame we're not first place for gold medals anymore though. . .
It's ok. Hockey and Curling is 4 Golds. :smalltongue:

golentan

2010-02-25, 07:56 PM

It's ok. Hockey and Curling is 4 Golds. :smalltongue:

Oh, no you don't. We will take you DOWN in hockey. Do you hear me, Canada?!

And curling doesn't count. ;)

Just kidding. A little friendly rivalry, made friendlier by the fact that canada is too polite to come after us when we get the gold.

SensFan

2010-02-25, 08:19 PM

Oh, no you don't. We will take you DOWN in hockey. Do you hear me, Canada?!

And curling doesn't count. ;)

Just kidding. A little friendly rivalry, made friendlier by the fact that canada is too polite to come after us when we get the gold.
I assume you're from the US here, due to lack of a location. If you're not, I'm about to sound really silly :smalltongue:

We've already shown in Salt Lake that we can win hockey Gold against both your teams on your ice, what makes you think we can't do it in our backyard? :smalltongue:
Or is there an American dollar bill under ceneter ice?:smallamused:

As you say, friendly rivalry all around. All of this is meant in good humour, of course.

skywalker

2010-02-25, 10:42 PM

I assume you're from the US here, due to lack of a location. If you're not, I'm about to sound really silly :smalltongue:

We've already shown in Salt Lake that we can win hockey Gold against both your teams on your ice, what makes you think we can't do it in our backyard? :smalltongue:
Or is there an American dollar bill under ceneter ice?:smallamused:

As you say, friendly rivalry all around. All of this is meant in good humour, of course.

I was just about to bring up the loonie... Supposedly there's 24 hour video to prove there's nothing under the ice this time... We shouldn't get ahead of ourselves, tho, still have to get by Finland and Slovakia...

Anyway, if the Canadians play like they did against Russia, I like their chances. But if they come like they did against the US, then I lean towards the Americans again. On the upside for Canada, Luongo is playing much better than Brodeur was. On the downside, Miller posted the first American Olympic shutout since 2002 last night and is still playing like, well, Ryan Miller.

Murska

2010-02-26, 10:33 AM

I would be very careful if I were part of a hockey team who beats Canada in the finals. They might not get out of there. :smalltongue:

Eldritch Knight

2010-02-26, 10:37 AM

Who says *anyone's* getting out of there who isn't Canadian?

Muhahahhahahaha!

The Extinguisher

2010-02-26, 10:38 AM

Apparently they're thinking of axing the women's hockey because it simply isn't a "competition" except between the US and Canada. Although I could have sworn another country got silver in '06.

Seems pretty stupid, if you ask me.

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom

2010-02-26, 11:03 AM

Anyway, if the Canadians play like they did against Russia, I like their chances.

I"m not sure I'd go that far. There are high school teams here that could have given the Russians a game the way they played the other night. Certainly I know of several college teams that probably would have won that game. I"m not saying you're wrong, but I just don't think you can take that the Canadians are playing super out of that game, when Russia played the worst game it's likely ever played. I mean two of the goals that Canada scored were because the defensemen were so far out of position, they had no hope of being able to stop that shot, and at least one goal that Nabokov failed to stop which were clearly easily stoppable (I mean seriously, there should be no excuse for allowing a wrap around goal with an NHL quality goalie). The other thing I took from the game, is that both teams were rather slow. I mean let's take into account that the Canadians have the highest average age of any team that was in the tournament. It was obvious that the Russians couldn't do anything, yet the Canadians didn't pick up the pace of the game and really take it to them. I think the game today against the Slovaks will be a better game to judge their ability because Slovakia has speed, and I'd like to see how they deal with a fast team.

Apparently they're thinking of axing the women's hockey because it simply isn't a "competition" except between the US and Canada. Although I could have sworn another country got silver in '06.

Seems pretty stupid, if you ask me.

I have heard no word that they're actually serious about that as of yet. But it has been done (baseball/softball in the summer Olympics). As to the game yesterday. If that's the best the US women have, they should be embarrassing. They played very sloppy. After about half a period, they were playing such poor fundamental hockey, that it was just too painful to watch. But yes, I do see the possibility of it happening. The real question is, can the rest of the world actually find the talent to actually catch up to the US and Canada.

SensFan

2010-02-26, 11:45 AM

I don't think you're giving Canada nearly enough credit for that game. For starters, I don't think many, if any, college teams could have beat that Russian team they way they played, since probably half of the NHL teams couldn't have. Russia didn't play terribly, Canada played great. Nabokov only really let in one soft goal, and Canada managed to render 2 of the most explosive players in the game (Ovechkin, Malkin) completely invisible.
If Canada plays like it did Wednesday night (not likely), then I don't know if a team made up of the rest of the world could beat them. They could easily have scored 12, 13, 15 goals if they needed to against Russia.

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom

2010-02-26, 12:02 PM

In regards to team Canada, that may be so. But I get the impression from you that you thought the Russians played well in that game. That is the absolute worst performance of any professional hockey team I've seen all year. I mean they made mistakes on defense, like putting a D on the guy with the puck behind the net instead of him being in no man's land in the middle of a circle. I mean I"ve seen 12 yr olds play more fundamental hockey than that this year, and not make those kind of mistakes. The Canadians played a good game, but the Russians played the absolute worst game they could ever have imagined playing. And there's blame to go around to the coaches too. Nabokov should never have even started the second period. . I mean that cost them two goals right there. With all the comments everywhere, it just seems that Canada is getting all credit for playing great, yet nobody seems to want to come out and say that Russia just sucked as bad as they possibly could.

Eldritch Knight

2010-02-26, 01:36 PM

'The guy with the puck behind the net' would be Sydney Crosby, and since that's what he's known for, it's actually a rather smart move on their part.

SensFan

2010-02-26, 03:33 PM

Murska

2010-02-26, 03:45 PM

Oh christ. This is just horrifyingly painful to watch. I'd classify it as an epic fail.

skywalker

2010-02-26, 04:16 PM

Or is there an American dollar bill under ceneter ice?:smallamused:

Starting to think there's some sort of "North American common currency" under the ice.

Oh christ. This is just horrifyingly painful to watch. I'd classify it as an epic fail.

Ruutu was in so much pain, he had to get himself ejected so he didn't have to watch anymore. Classy, that.

SensFan

2010-02-26, 04:47 PM

Oh christ. This is just horrifyingly painful to watch. I'd classify it as an epic fail.
Good luck in the Bronze game?

CWater

2010-02-26, 04:49 PM

Oh my... :smallfrown:This is so hor... -no, I don't even have words powerful enough to discribe this. And I thought it was humiliaiting to lose to Sweden! ... ...

SensFan

2010-02-26, 05:08 PM

Oh my... :smallfrown:This is so hor... -no, I don't even have words powerful enough to discribe this. And I thought it was humiliaiting to lose to Sweden! ... ...
To be fair, the American team has been far far better than Sweden. And I'd say that you guys should be able to win the Bronze, assuming there's no upset later tonight.

CWater

2010-02-26, 05:18 PM

Good luck in the Bronze game?

...Maybe so. *sigh*:smallamused:

skywalker

2010-02-26, 10:28 PM

I love how Canada is basically playing two lines (Crosby, Iginla, Staal; The Shark Line) and then a sort of super-mashup of 6 different forwards wrapped around Toews.

I like this a lot better than the "get everybody equal ice time" theory.

PhoeKun

2010-02-27, 04:25 PM

I don't think anyone else is going to bring this up, but my last name qualifies me to care, so...

Can we get a round of applause for Justyna Kowalczyk for a super awesome cross country race and the first ever gold medal a Polish woman has ever won in a winter Olympics. Not to mention the first winter gold Poland's won while not part of the USSR. Super, super happy for her. :smallsmile:

Morty

2010-02-27, 04:33 PM

Not to mention the first winter gold Poland's won while not part of the USSR.

Poland was never a part of the USSR, you know.
But otherwise, boo-yah. :smallcool: The last meters were really tense.

PhoeKun

2010-02-27, 04:52 PM

Poland was never a part of the USSR, you know.
But otherwise, boo-yah. :smallcool: The last meters were really tense.

Ah, whoops. Just Eastern Bloc, huh? Sorry about that...

Spiryt

2010-02-27, 05:03 PM

The ending almost made me yell at the damn TV, which usually happens only if commercials are getting close to 30 minutes again. :smalleek:

That was a fight.

Winthur

2010-02-27, 10:10 PM

It was not for me. I'm a Pole and I rooted for her. Unfortunately, I got sick of her when on a 13 hour trip, back from my winter holidays, during which I had to listen to two geriatric people, talking about Marit Bjoergen being a cheater who gets her high place only because she was on steroids and that Kowalczyk would easily get a gold medal in the first race if it weren't for the Norwegian going around the set rules and that Marit should be in the Paraolympics if she can't manage it without steroids.

A terrible experience, because it was horribly grating to the ears and mind, first. Second, I couldn't even say anything. Nobody would bother. I would probably just start an arguement.

I figured I won't give a crap when I get back home because I'm sick of the Olympics by now.

Who was I kidding? KO-WAL-CZYK! :smallbiggrin:

Also, I wonder if there were any Poles who listened to the radio transmission of the thing on the Jedynka. The commentator was friggin' hilarious, saying things like "it's like she has the Japanese sword katana IN HER LUNGS!" fast, loud and in a chaotic manner. That was golden. As golden as Kowalczyk's golden medal. :smallbiggrin:

Eldritch Knight

2010-02-27, 11:34 PM

And in other news, Canada now has 13 gold medals, tying the current record for most golds one by a single country. So NYAH! :smalltongue:

SensFan

2010-02-27, 11:38 PM

And in other news, Canada now has 13 gold medals, tying the current record for most golds one by a single country. So NYAH! :smalltongue:
And the most ever by the host country.
And, if all goes well, tomorrow we set the record for most ever.

CWater

2010-02-28, 12:16 AM

WAAAH!!! Now two Bronze medals in icehockey!!

What a great game that was!!!! (And even greater, cos we won!:smallwink:)

Yay!! Now I'm happy again!:smallbiggrin:

I'll be rooting for Canada in the Final game

PhoeKun

2010-02-28, 01:08 AM

I'll be rooting for Canada in the Final game

Why? Wouldn't it be preferable to have been beaten by the team that went on to win the gold med-- oh, right. America. *sighs*

Fine then. I'll just root for the US by myself. *hmphs indignantly*

skywalker

2010-02-28, 01:18 AM

Why? Wouldn't it be preferable to have been beaten by the team that went on to win the gold med-- oh, right. America. *sighs*

Fine then. I'll just root for the US by myself. *hmphs indignantly*

*Roots right along with you!!!*

CWater

2010-02-28, 03:07 AM

Why? Wouldn't it be preferable to have been beaten by the team that went on to win the gold med-- oh, right. America. *sighs*

That's not the reason. (I actually rooted for US in the women's final:smallsmile:.) But you see if Canada wins today the results for both women's and men's hockey would be:

Gold - Canada
Silver - USA
Bronze - Finland

For some reason, I find that outcome amusing:smallbiggrin:

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom

2010-02-28, 12:40 PM

yeah, I"m going to be relegated to watching the gold medal game online later tonight since the two hockey games I'm officiating are during the game. I'm not too thrilled about it, but on the bright side, I"m making $50 for two hours worth of work (if you can call it that). The tough part is not figuring out the result until I have a chance to watch the game.

Mathis

2010-02-28, 02:47 PM

Gold! Glorious, beautiful and sweet sweet gold! Petter Northug dominated the sprint at the end of the 5 mile ski-run today and proved yet again that Norwegians are born with skis on our feet. Suck on that Sweden!

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom

2010-02-28, 02:50 PM

SensFan

2010-02-28, 03:27 PM

Spoilered for those watching it later
HE SHOOTS HE SCORES!!!!!!
1-0 CANADA!!!

Mathis

2010-02-28, 03:45 PM

I think you mean the 50km (30 mile) ski.

No no, I meant mile. I just forgot in my excitement that most people on this forum use the imperial system and not the metric. See, to us (In Norway) 5 miles is the same as 50 km.

So what to you is the 30 mile ski-run, is to us the 5 mile ski-run.

sofawall

2010-02-28, 03:53 PM

Spoilered for those watching it later
HE SHOOTS HE SCORES!!!!!!
1-0 CANADA!!!

YEAH! WOO! WHEE!

If Canada wins Gold in hockey, don't we break some sort of Winter Olympic Gold Medal record or something?

Dire Moose

2010-02-28, 03:56 PM

proved yet again that Norwegians are born with skis on our feet.

Um...OUCH.

SensFan

2010-02-28, 04:08 PM

YEAH! WOO! WHEE!

If Canada wins Gold in hockey, don't we break some sort of Winter Olympic Gold Medal record or something?
Yep. Going into this game, we're tied with Russia (1980?) for most gold medals in a single Winter Olympics.

sofawall

2010-02-28, 04:09 PM

Hockey: Hell yes! We are totally getting this Gold.

Also, Norway 2002, if I recall correctly.

Kneenibble

2010-02-28, 04:13 PM

Oh man, this Canada-US gold match is intense. This determines the fate of the universe. I'm slitting my wrists in the tub tonight if we lose.

Winthur

2010-02-28, 04:17 PM

Um...OUCH.

That's because the sportsmen who do skiing...
*glasses*
...always choose the narrow way.

sofawall

2010-02-28, 04:19 PM

Hockey talk should be in spoilers, at least for a few hours, I think. Some people can't watch it, so they have to watch it later. Some T.V. stations show it 3 hours late, for example.

But yes, holy crap that is some good hockey.

****!

Shas aia Toriia

2010-02-28, 04:43 PM

2-1 right now.
If we lose, I'll have to rage so hard. . . :smallfurious:

Worira

2010-02-28, 05:14 PM

sofawall

2010-02-28, 05:18 PM

**** just got real.

truemane

2010-02-28, 05:21 PM

MAD real son.

PhoeKun

2010-02-28, 05:29 PM

MAD real son.

How real is mad real? If it gets realer, what does it become? Or are we at the maximum level of reality?

Is this kind of real only part of hockey? Is it more real than a sunset? How does one make it fake? *rambles on for until she passes out from lack of oxygen*

sofawall

2010-02-28, 05:41 PM

Oh look, we win.

http://www.hockeyhno.com/images/Hockey%20Canadar.jpg

truemane

2010-02-28, 05:41 PM

One of the tems Wins!

CANADA!

Eh!

Worira

2010-02-28, 05:41 PM

YES.morecharacters

Kneenibble

2010-02-28, 05:43 PM

*dignified cough*
****IN RIGHTS!

Oh MAN, to be in Vancouver tonight... the parties, my women! the parties!

sofawall

2010-02-28, 05:43 PM

ThreeFour posts in about 30 seconds. People must be watching some Hockey :P

PhoeKun

2010-02-28, 05:46 PM

chiasaur11

2010-02-28, 05:47 PM

Good show Canada.

I hope it help compensate for the shame you feel at caring about curling.

afroakuma

2010-02-28, 05:49 PM

Yay! Go Canada! :smallbiggrin:

Hometown hero FTW! :smallbiggrin:

Murska

2010-02-28, 05:49 PM

I think Canada deserved that. By virtue of simply having the best team and on the home field.

sofawall

2010-02-28, 05:52 PM

So, that game gave us a victory on so many different levels.

Shas aia Toriia

2010-02-28, 05:53 PM

F*** yeah Canada!
AWESOME!!!

Also, most gold medals ever in the Winter Olympics.

Alyss

2010-02-28, 05:55 PM

So anyone catch the luge?

truemane

2010-02-28, 05:57 PM

*sighs* Look Canada, I had very simple dreams. And you've spent this last week crushing them into dust. I hope you're happy.

edit: And no, I don't particularly care about spoilers. If somebody hasn't seen the game and wants to without spoilers, they really shouldn't be on the internet in the first place.

Dear America:

Don't feel bad about losing the gold medal in hockey. I mean, really, hockey is actually about the only thing we can actually DO. I mean, aside from apologize for things and operate a civil society in the absence of firearms.

You still have Hollywood. And the military. And a way better national anthem. And a language devoid of extraneous u's.

Seriously, we still have to steal your slang and buy your music if we don't want to look like idiots.

Sincerely,

Canada

PS: If this letter sounds mean, we're sorry.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2010-02-28, 06:41 PM

PhoeKun

2010-02-28, 06:47 PM

I'm getting all my partying and gloating done today, because SOME Americans at school get really defensive *cough cough Grace cough*

Anyways, Most gold medals ever won at the winter olympics!

WHAT UP!

Yeah, see... this is the part I begrudge you, oh neighbors to the north. You couldn't have settled for silver in one of the other events and kept away that incredibly stupid debate about whether most golds tops most medals all time?

You did too well to let me enjoy my country's accomplishment without some sort of asterisk, but not well enough to actually "own the podium". Way to get stuck in the middle, guys. Thanks so much. :smalltongue:

chiasaur11

2010-02-28, 06:58 PM

Yeah, see... this is the part I begrudge you, oh neighbors to the north. You couldn't have settled for silver in one of the other events and kept away that incredibly stupid debate about whether most golds tops most medals all time?

You did too well to let me enjoy my country's accomplishment without some sort of asterisk, but not well enough to actually "own the podium". Way to get stuck in the middle, guys. Thanks so much. :smalltongue:

I think the US's super-gold for snowboarding makes up for it.

The committee's refusal to make a super gold metal speaks only ill of them.

Sneak

2010-02-28, 07:04 PM

Hockey is Canada's national sport. The fact that the game even went into overtime? I call it a win. :smalltongue:

SensFan

2010-02-28, 07:07 PM

Hockey is Canada's national sport. The fact that the game even went into overtime? I call it a win. :smalltongue:
Lacrosse is also our National sport.

Flarp

2010-02-28, 07:09 PM

SensFan

2010-02-28, 07:13 PM

The ancient Olympics were about putting aside war for friendly competition that involved no national teams and existed purely for sports' sake. It was also an amateur competition, and anyone could enter.

I think we messed up.
The reason that pro hockey players are allowed to compete is that before they were, Russia* was accused of sending pro players from the Russian hockey leagues, since its much harder to trace if they're pro than figuring out if Canada/US is using NHL players.

*No offense intended to anyone from Russia.

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom

2010-02-28, 07:35 PM

At least the game was exciting...or so I hear. I couldn't watch it since I was officiating hockey games at the same time. Although the loud cheer I heard from the rink lobby was apparently the tying goal with about 20 seconds left in regulation. I had to end up looking online to find it because nbcolympics.com is stupid and made me have a Comcast video on demand subscription to watch the replay, or I'd actually be watching the game now. But again, sure seemed like a damn exciting game that really could have gone either way in the OT. Although I'm sure all you Cannucks sure were scared after you let that two goal lead (the most dangerous lead in hockey) slip away. I've also heard from several people that the Canadians just looked old out there on the ice, and that in a best of 7, the US clearly looked like a team that could win a series. And seeing as they're the team that has the oldest average age of any team in the tournament, things may get interesting for team Canada in the near future.

@Sens
I'm sorry lacrosse is a national sport for you guys, I really am.

PhoeKun

2010-02-28, 07:38 PM

The ancient Olympics were about putting aside war for friendly competition that involved no national teams and existed purely for sports' sake. It was also an amateur competition, and anyone could enter.

I think we messed up.

The modern Olympics are about putting aside war for friendly competition that lets each country feel its heart beat as a single entity for just a few precious moments, and exists to give the many different cultures of the world a chance to play out their rivalries on a set of fields that exist for sports' sake.

There are open tryouts, and anyone willing to put in the time and dedication to become great can compete.

Messed up? Man, we made this awesome.

SensFan

2010-02-28, 07:40 PM

At least the game was exciting...or so I hear. I couldn't watch it since I was officiating hockey games at the same time. Although the loud cheer I heard from the rink lobby was apparently the tying goal with about 20 seconds left in regulation. I had to end up looking online to find it because nbcolympics.com is stupid and made me have a Comcast video on demand subscription to watch the replay, or I'd actually be watching the game now. But again, sure seemed like a damn exciting game that really could have gone either way in the OT. Although I'm sure all you Cannucks sure were scared after you let that two goal lead (the most dangerous lead in hockey) slip away.
I know ctvolympics.ca was streaming the game live, you may be able to find it there to watch now.

Surrealistik

2010-02-28, 07:42 PM

My country won! Woo, I care!

Flickerdart

2010-02-28, 07:44 PM

Messed up? Man, we made this awesome.
I'm pretty sure the Greeks didn't have guns in their olympics. That alone is worth something, though I suppose we lose points for curling.

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom

2010-02-28, 07:44 PM

I know ctvolympics.ca was streaming the game live, you may be able to find it there to watch now.

NBColympics.com was streaming the games live for free too. But apparently you have to pay to actually see the replay, pretty lame huh.

I'm pretty sure the Greeks didn't have guns in their olympics. That alone is worth something, though I suppose we lose points for curling.

I'm going to have to disagree completely with you on this one. Curling is absolutely awsome. It's like shuffleboard, and chess all mixed into one on a sheet of ice. I love it.

chiasaur11

2010-02-28, 07:44 PM

I'm pretty sure the Greeks didn't have guns in their olympics. That alone is worth something, though I suppose we lose points for curling.

Yeah. Kinda comes out a wash.

FMArthur

2010-02-28, 07:45 PM

And now, every Canadian with a car and a loud horn is on the streets. :smallsigh:

SensFan

2010-02-28, 07:48 PM

NBColympics.com was streaming the games live for free too. But apparently you have to pay to actually see the replay, pretty lame huh.
http://www.ctvolympics.ca/video/index.html

Scroll 2/3rds of the way down the page or so, to "Men's Gold Medal game". It's the game in full.

Sneak

2010-02-28, 07:58 PM

@Sens
I'm sorry lacrosse is a national sport for you guys, I really am.

I agree. Officially sanctioning lax bros is not a good thing.

Eldritch Knight

2010-02-28, 08:06 PM

Of course it's now certain that come 2014, that the Russians will be trying to top Canada's medal count. Either way, it was a good two weeks, and, the really, really good news is THAT BLASTED SONG WILL NO LONGER BE PLAYED SO MANY $#^# TIMES A DAY!!!!

Ravens_cry

2010-02-28, 08:09 PM

We won. And beat the record. I am a happy Canucklehead right now.

Zocelot

2010-02-28, 08:24 PM

skywalker

2010-02-28, 08:35 PM

And a way better national anthem. And a language devoid of extraneous u's.

Yeah but your athletes are so much better at singing yours. It really bothers me that a lot of the time when you see Americans on the top stand, the anthem starts and you see their mouths go "Oh say can you see, by the dawn's early light... What so proudly we... hailed... atthetwilight's..." and then they just kinda stop.

Lacrosse is also our National sport.

No, no, Lacrosse is North America's First National sport.

The ancient Olympics were about putting aside war for friendly competition that involved no national teams and existed purely for sports' sake. It was also an amateur competition, and anyone could enter.

I think we messed up.

You're right, there were no national teams. This is primarily because you had to be free (not a slave) and speak Greek to enter the games at all, pretty firmly establishing you as a member of a certain ethnic group. Yeah, we really messed our version up.

I'm pretty sure the Greeks didn't have guns in their olympics. That alone is worth something, though I suppose we lose points for curling.

No, the Greeks just had boxing, wrestling, spear- and discus (shield)-throwing, chariot racing, and a race contested in full armor. Not militaristic in the slightest. The whole reason Biathlon is an event is because the tradition in the early days of the Olympics was to test the competitors' soldiering skills. This was all done in emulation of the ancient games.

I agree. Officially sanctioning lax bros is not a good thing.

We are not all knuckleheads! Some of us actually speak in complete sentences!

Just heard on the show for the closing ceremony that the President and the Prime Minister (of USA and Canada, respectively) had a case of beer riding on the outcome of today's game. That's classic.

Ravens_cry

2010-02-28, 08:37 PM

Just heard on the show for the closing ceremony that the President and the Prime Minister (of USA and Canada, respectively) had a case of beer riding on the outcome of today's game. That's classic.
Not much of a bet if it's American beer.:smalltongue:

PhoeKun

2010-02-28, 08:45 PM

I know how silly it is to feel pride, seeing as how I did absolutely nothing, but damn, I feel it coursing through my body.

I'm a little biased, but I don't see the "all medals" side of the "gold medals vs. all medals" debate. There's nothing special about third place that makes it so much better than fourth, but first is something that is clearly exceptional.

You can't make blanket statements like that. That's that whole "2nd place is the first loser" mentality that pollutes so many things and makes competitions less fun. To take 3rd place in these types of events is no small feat, and it means the world to these athletes. Bronze is very much a cherished accomplishment, and I promise you that the people who miss out on it by fractions of a second or a point feel absolutely crushed.

It's a question of relativity. If one nation has a massive command of the golds, and another just happens to have won a metric ton of bronze medals, then yes the golds probably count for more. But when one country earns 5 less golds in exchange for fifteen more silvers and bronzes... that is achieving consistent excellence in a way that nobody ever has before. You can't automatically discount that because a narrower range of specialization churned out a handful more first.

Look at it this way. Assign a gold medal 3 points, a silver 2, and a bronze 1. Tally up the results, and see who stands on top. Another important factor to consider in most games is number of medals compared to number of competitors. Although in this case, the number was pretty much the same.

edit: Which is not to discredit Canada's accomplishments. That's a heck of a record to set.

Not much of a bet if it's American beer.:smalltongue:

Nuts to you, Samuel Adams is awesome. Although I believe the price owed is a case of Molson. Would have been Yuengling had the US won. Which... really brings back some odd memories for me. Yay for hometown beers?

skywalker

2010-02-28, 09:00 PM

You can't make blanket statements like that. That's that whole "2nd place is the first loser" mentality that pollutes so many things and makes competitions less fun. To take 3rd place in these types of events is no small feat, and it means the world to these athletes. Bronze is very much a cherished accomplishment, and I promise you that the people who miss out on it by fractions of a second or a point feel absolutely crushed.

It's a question of relativity. If one nation has a massive command of the golds, and another just happens to have won a metric ton of bronze medals, then yes the golds probably count for more. But when one country earns 5 less golds in exchange for fifteen more silvers and bronzes... that is achieving consistent excellence in a way that nobody ever has before. You can't automatically discount that because a narrower range of specialization churned out a handful more first.

Look at it this way. Assign a gold medal 3 points, a silver 2, and a bronze 1. Tally up the results, and see who stands on top. Another important factor to consider in most games is number of medals compared to number of competitors. Although in this case, the number was pretty much the same.

edit: Which is not to discredit Canada's accomplishments. That's a heck of a record to set.

+eleventy billion. Tell the athletes who won bronze that "there's nothing special about 3rd place."

Nuts to you, Samuel Adams is awesome. Although I believe the price owed is a case of Molson. Would have been Yuengling had the US won. Which... really brings back some odd memories for me. Yay for hometown beers?

Yeah, Obama owes Harper a case of Molson.

Yay for hometown beers indeed.

Phoe, I feel like as long as no-one brings up the Patriots, you and I get along just fine...

SensFan

2010-02-28, 09:09 PM

+eleventy billion. Tell the athletes who won bronze that "there's nothing special about 3rd place."
Other than the fact that 3rd gets a medal and 4th doesn't (which is an arbitraty distinction, especially in tournament-formats), why should 'more 3rd places' be worth more than 'more 4th places'? Especially since Canada dominated the '4th and 5th' places.

skywalker

2010-02-28, 09:17 PM

Other than the fact that 3rd gets a medal and 4th doesn't (which is an arbitraty distinction, especially in tournament-formats), why should 'more 3rd places' be worth more than 'more 4th places'? Especially since Canada dominated the '4th and 5th' places.

I wasn't trying to say anything about whether or not the US or Canada "won." Thanks for trying to make it about that tho.

It's actually because 3 is the magic number. :smallwink:

PhoeKun

2010-02-28, 09:25 PM

It's a very, very, very old tradition. Take it up with the ancient Greeks. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd are the places given honor. I think it might have something to do with the three ages of heroes in Greek mythology, but that's really just a guess (not to mention not relevant).

And it's hardly that 4th or 5th or even 6th place don't matter. Anybody who does well in their sport has every right to be proud of their accomplishment, especially if they exceeded expectations (such as a cross country skier being praised for 27th when nobody from their country has ever ranked higher than 35th). But the world long ago drew the line at the top three to declare "these are the most excellent. They deserve your recognition and sole focus for this moment", and you can't change that just to win an argument.

Alteran

2010-02-28, 09:28 PM

+eleventy billion. Tell the athletes who won bronze that "there's nothing special about 3rd place."

That's not the argument that was being made, though. Zocelot said that the distinction between third and fourth place wasn't as big as the distinction between first and anything else. Third and fourth at the Olympics are both amazing achievements, but the gap between them isn't as significant as the gap between the best, and everybody else. His argument was that the number of gold medals matters the most, because while number one is a clear goal, three is kind of an arbitrary cutoff for the medals. It's not a bad number, but it doesn't have as much innate significance.

Of course, the gap in actual points or seconds could be even smaller between the first and second place athletes than between those in third and fourth place. But one of them is still the best. :smalltongue:

Edit: I was sort of late with this, but oh well.

MikelaC1

2010-02-28, 09:51 PM

LETS MAKE SURE
EVERYONE KNOWS
WHOSE GAME
THEYRE PLAYING
and We Double Gold Did

PhoeKun

2010-02-28, 09:54 PM

That's not the argument that was being made, though. Zocelot said that the distinction between third and fourth place wasn't as big as the distinction between first and anything else. Third and fourth at the Olympics are both amazing achievements, but the gap between them isn't as significant as the gap between the best, and everybody else. His argument was that the number of gold medals matters the most, because while number one is a clear goal, three is kind of an arbitrary cutoff for the medals. It's not a bad number, but it doesn't have as much innate significance.

Of course, the gap in actual points or seconds could be even smaller between the first and second place athletes than between those in third and fourth place. But one of them is still the best. :smalltongue:

To make my position absitively, posilutely clear, Canda's performance in these games was amazing, and everyone's hats should go off to them. And Canadians can rightly take a great amount of pride in the record they have set. First place means a lot, and to be the absolute best in so many disciplines is nothing short of incredible.

I had complained (partially in jest) about this record because I was worried it would detract from the equally amazing accomplishment the United States achieved in placing themselves among the honored pantheon in a frankly staggering number of events. And it's more amazing because traditionally we're not the best at these sports. Germany and Norway beat us senseless on a regular basis. To be on the very top of the medal count for the first time ever is something I can't even describe to you. We'll just say awesome, and note that I mean that in the sense of what that word is actually supposed to mean.

My concerns were, evidently, founded. Because no sooner did I bring up my pride in my country's accomplishment than did several people declare that it didn't mean as much as their country's accomplishment. And every time I bring it up hereafter, I have no doubt somebody within earshot of the conversation will chime in about the gold medal record being better than the overall medal record. And to this, I say "like heck it is". Every time the Olympics comes around, this argument is very relative. Just how many medals were won, and what kind were they? Can you really tell me with a straight face that one country who wins 13 gold medals is unequivocally better than one that wins a bronze medal in every event? Or if they won a handful less gold, but did it with fewer athletes? Or did it in a hostile nation? Circumstances change the argument about who we get to call "the best".

In this case, a lot of things are startlingly even. If pushed, I'd rank both accomplishments equal. These are incredible records to set. The differences between them are certainly less clear cut than anyone who makes a "1st is infinitely superior to 3rd" argument would appear to believe.

On another topic entirely, may I just say that I hope whoever designed the medals for these games got slapped around? Like, a lot? I really think they're among the ugliest Olympic medals I've ever seen. Why are they all warped? What does this represent, the importance of not putting your awards in the washing machine?

FMArthur

2010-02-28, 09:54 PM

LETS MAKE SURE
EVERYONE KNOWS
WHOSE GAME
THEYRE PLAYING
and We Double Gold Did

#1 reason I wanted our team to lose: all the smug, pre-victory gloating commercials would look even worse.

Worira

2010-02-28, 09:58 PM

Oh, John Furlong. You sure like talking.

SensFan

2010-02-28, 09:58 PM

On another topic entirely, may I just say that I hope whoever designed the medals for these games got slapped around? Like, a lot? I really think they're among the ugliest Olympic medals I've ever seen. Why are they all warped? What does this represent, the importance of not putting your awards in the washing machine?
I heard they represent Vancouver's topography.

Shas aia Toriia

2010-02-28, 10:00 PM

Either way, it was a good two weeks, and, the really, really good news is THAT BLASTED SONG WILL NO LONGER BE PLAYED SO MANY $#^# TIMES A DAY!!!!

OH GAWD I HATE THAT SONG!!! :smallfurious:
Also, to whoever said to give bronze 1 point, silver 2 and gold 3, here's another test for you - Make bronze 1, silver 2 and gold 50. Because first place is more important than 2nd.

Also, the "winner" of the games is whoever gets the most gold medals, so . . .

chiasaur11

2010-02-28, 10:09 PM

OH GAWD I HATE THAT SONG!!! :smallfurious:
Also, to whoever said to give bronze 1 point, silver 2 and gold 3, here's another test for you - Make bronze 1, silver 2 and gold 50. Because first place is more important than 2nd.

...

But twenty five times as important? Really?

Giving three points for gold in that hypothetical system makes gold as important as everything else combined. Maybe not big enough, sure. But geeze, Insisting that a gold in, say, ice dancing is 2,500% better than a silver in the decathalon?

Really?

(Besides. You got a gold in curling. It invalidates any other achievements, past present and future.)

SensFan

2010-02-28, 10:13 PM

...

But twenty five times as important? Really?

Giving three points for gold in that hypothetical system makes gold as important as everything else combined. Maybe not big enough, sure. But geeze, Insisting that a gold in, say, ice dancing is 2,500% better than a silver in the decathalon?

Really?

(Besides. You got a gold in curling. It invalidates any other achievements, past present and future.)
If you HAVE to assign a point value, I think Bronze-1 Silver-2 leads to Gold being somewhere between 5 and 10.

Crimmy

2010-02-28, 10:13 PM

Surprise to me and my family:
M. J. Fox is Canadian.

Kaiser Omnik

2010-02-28, 10:15 PM

A little respect for those who practice curling would be nice. I don't especially like that sport, but who are we to judge?

I know people are joking and all, but they deserved their medals as much as the skaters and hockey players.

Worira

2010-02-28, 10:15 PM

Gold's about 67 times more valuable than silver. This is how we should evaluate the results.

PhoeKun

2010-02-28, 10:18 PM

Kaiser Omnik

2010-02-28, 10:23 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot, the olympic spirit is all about feeling superior to others.

PhoeKun

2010-02-28, 10:27 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot, the olympic spirit is all about feeling superior to others.

Er... I really didn't mean offense by that. On the contrary, I meant every word I said.

I just also couldn't pass up the opportunity to pun. Is that so wrong?

@v: you're confusing the Olympics and the internet. It is 100% possible to both feel a sense of national pride and to have a civil discussion with other people about the results of athletic contests. Of course, this becomes much more difficult when someone decides they want to be so antagonistic when making their points.

Shas aia Toriia

2010-02-28, 10:27 PM

Of course it is - feeling superiour to other people you've never met before based solely on something that neither you nor they contributed to.

FMArthur

2010-02-28, 10:34 PM

The Olympics are about nationalism more than the sports themselves to most non-participants. I don't like it, but it's true and it's not going to change.

chiasaur11

2010-02-28, 10:40 PM

The Olympics are about nationalism more than the sports themselves to most non-participants. I don't like it, but it's true and it's not going to change.

When really, they should be about unity.

Mainly, everyone getting together and snickering about ice dancing being a sport.

skywalker

2010-02-28, 11:03 PM

To make my position absitively, posilutely clear, Canda's performance in these games was amazing, and everyone's hats should go off to them. And Canadians can rightly take a great amount of pride in the record they have set. First place means a lot, and to be the absolute best in so many disciplines is nothing short of incredible.

I had complained (partially in jest) about this record because I was worried it would detract from the equally amazing accomplishment the United States achieved in placing themselves among the honored pantheon in a frankly staggering number of events. And it's more amazing because traditionally we're not the best at these sports. Germany and Norway beat us senseless on a regular basis. To be on the very top of the medal count for the first time ever is something I can't even describe to you. We'll just say awesome, and note that I mean that in the sense of what that word is actually supposed to mean.

My concerns were, evidently, founded. Because no sooner did I bring up my pride in my country's accomplishment than did several people declare that it didn't mean as much as their country's accomplishment. And every time I bring it up hereafter, I have no doubt somebody within earshot of the conversation will chime in about the gold medal record being better than the overall medal record. And to this, I say "like heck it is". Every time the Olympics comes around, this argument is very relative. Just how many medals were won, and what kind were they? Can you really tell me with a straight face that one country who wins 13 gold medals is unequivocally better than one that wins a bronze medal in every event? Or if they won a handful less gold, but did it with fewer athletes? Or did it in a hostile nation? Circumstances change the argument about who we get to call "the best".

In this case, a lot of things are startlingly even. If pushed, I'd rank both accomplishments equal. These are incredible records to set. The differences between them are certainly less clear cut than anyone who makes a "1st is infinitely superior to 3rd" argument would appear to believe.

Just wait. Next time there's a summer Olympics, they'll be telling you that the winner is "the one with the best sportsmanship" or something like that.

This debate is getting really tiresome.

*flees*

Better hurry!

Mainly, everyone getting together and snickering about ice dancing being a sport.

Dude. I'd like to see you lift a 100lb. woman into the air, while spinning, while standing on one skate blade, on ice.

Alternatively, you could let said woman jump and stand on your leg, with her ice skate.

Yeah, really not a sport, there...

chiasaur11

2010-02-28, 11:44 PM

Just wait. Next time there's a summer Olympics, they'll be telling you that the winner is "the one with the best sportsmanship" or something like that.

This debate is getting really tiresome.

Better hurry!

Dude. I'd like to see you lift a 100lb. woman into the air, while spinning, while standing on one skate blade, on ice.

Alternatively, you could let said woman jump and stand on your leg, with her ice skate.

Yeah, really not a sport, there...

Hey, I kid because...

Well, anyway, they could kick my butt, no question, and most of them, darn good at what they do.

But here's the thing. The ability to mock with minimal thought or concern for factual accuracy is a foundation of the internet.

If every joke had to be strictly factually accurate and sure not to even hypothetically offend any party?

Less of them.

Besides, lots of things that require tons of physical exertion, well worth doing, that I would also never call a sport.

Alteran

2010-03-01, 12:08 AM

To make my position absitively, posilutely clear, Canda's performance in these games was amazing, and everyone's hats should go off to them. And Canadians can rightly take a great amount of pride in the record they have set. First place means a lot, and to be the absolute best in so many disciplines is nothing short of incredible.

I had complained (partially in jest) about this record because I was worried it would detract from the equally amazing accomplishment the United States achieved in placing themselves among the honored pantheon in a frankly staggering number of events. And it's more amazing because traditionally we're not the best at these sports. Germany and Norway beat us senseless on a regular basis. To be on the very top of the medal count for the first time ever is something I can't even describe to you. We'll just say awesome, and note that I mean that in the sense of what that word is actually supposed to mean.

My concerns were, evidently, founded. Because no sooner did I bring up my pride in my country's accomplishment than did several people declare that it didn't mean as much as their country's accomplishment. And every time I bring it up hereafter, I have no doubt somebody within earshot of the conversation will chime in about the gold medal record being better than the overall medal record. And to this, I say "like heck it is". Every time the Olympics comes around, this argument is very relative. Just how many medals were won, and what kind were they? Can you really tell me with a straight face that one country who wins 13 gold medals is unequivocally better than one that wins a bronze medal in every event? Or if they won a handful less gold, but did it with fewer athletes? Or did it in a hostile nation? Circumstances change the argument about who we get to call "the best".

In this case, a lot of things are startlingly even. If pushed, I'd rank both accomplishments equal. These are incredible records to set. The differences between them are certainly less clear cut than anyone who makes a "1st is infinitely superior to 3rd" argument would appear to believe.

I suppose it's problematic for me to be talking about this with my location listed just to the left of my posts. I wasn't trying to portray my own country as the winner, which seems to be the impression I may have given. Nor was I trying to belittle the USA's incredible achievement. I was just trying to clarify what I thought Zocelot was saying, as I thought that he was being misunderstood. I'm personally undecided as to which achievement I would consider more impressive, I think I'm probably going to agree with you and say "equal, both amazing". Competition for the actual events was fierce enough, there's no reason to have it carry over to interpretation of the results.

Don Julio Anejo

2010-03-01, 01:12 AM

And here I thought the Olympics were about running around Granville, Davie and Robson and yelling

CANADA, WOOO!!!!:smile::elan::smile::elan::biggrin:

I guess I was wrong and it's about civilized discussion on the internet :smallfrown:

I say my version of the Olympics is better than your version of the Olympics :tongue: I'd still be out there if I didn't have to wake up for class at 6:30 AM tomorrow...

Edit: oh yeah, almost forgot:
LUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!

/drunk happy rant

Destro_Yersul

2010-03-01, 01:39 AM

And here I thought the Olympics were about running around Granville, Davie and Robson and yelling

CANADA, WOOO!!!!

And Beatty. I work over there, and I can tell you, we had plenty of drunk revelers as well. Though not as many as Granville.

Mathis

2010-03-01, 07:40 AM

Whats all this arguing about most gold medals in the winter olympics? I think you are all forgetting the actual champions there; Norway.

The Norwegians have carried home a grand total of 106 gold medals over the course of every winter olympics since 1896 to 2010, only the US of A is close with 94, now compare this to the number of inhabitants and number of sports participated in and you'll be really impressed.

But really, Canada deserves some love for carrying home that many gold medals in a single winter olympics, that is truly a feat of strength. *Gives a tip of the hat I wish I had*

SensFan

2010-03-01, 08:48 AM

Edit: oh yeah, almost forgot:
LUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!
That reminds me of the funniest moment of the afternoon. When Luongo did the lap after the game, one of the girls watching the game with us got all upset, and said "Poor guy, he did his best. It wasn't his fault the States tied it up. Its so unfair for him to be booed when he just won us gold!"

skywalker

2010-03-01, 11:52 AM

Hey, I kid because...

Well, anyway, they could kick my butt, no question, and most of them, darn good at what they do.

But here's the thing. The ability to mock with minimal thought or concern for factual accuracy is a foundation of the internet.

If every joke had to be strictly factually accurate and sure not to even hypothetically offend any party?

Less of them.

Besides, lots of things that require tons of physical exertion, well worth doing, that I would also never call a sport.

And I find it fun to play against the typical "grr, football" attitude a lot of people bring to these sorts of discussions. Not necessarily you, but there are people who will say "it's not a real sport," and absolutely positively mean it. I thought we were still having fun. In fact, that is typically how this conversation goes. Some guy friend of mine says "Ice dancing is not a real sport", I point out that the woman is now standing her skate blade on some part of the man's anatomy, and then he gets all sheepish and says "yeah, I kinda overdid that one." And it's all fun, and all part of the joke. The ability to riposte to mocking without thought or concern for factual accuracy is also a fundamental part of the internet.

That reminds me of the funniest moment of the afternoon. When Luongo did the lap after the game, one of the girls watching the game with us got all upset, and said "Poor guy, he did his best. It wasn't his fault the States tied it up. Its so unfair for him to be booed when he just won us gold!"

You know, it kinda...
<<
>>
was his fault. All those juicy rebounds...

SensFan

2010-03-01, 11:56 AM

You know, it kinda...
<<
>>
was his fault. All those juicy rebounds...
Yeah, I'm going to disagree entirely with that one.
Luongo had 2 American players within 5 feet in front of him. It was great that he was able to make the save at all.

onthetown

2010-03-01, 11:59 AM

I'm not a big sports person, but I decided to watch the final showdown hockey game... I didn't understand what was going on apart from shoot puck into net, but I screamed and jumped up from my seat when Crosby got that goal in overtime. It was incredible to know that (most of) the rest of the nation was feeling that excitement and pride with me :smallsmile: And though none of my friends will admit it from their sports high right now, I do want to say that the US played an exceptional game. It was well worth watching.

Eldritch Knight

2010-03-01, 12:00 PM

Surprise to me and my family:
M. J. Fox is Canadian.

Actually, he holds a dual citzenship.

SensFan

2010-03-01, 12:01 PM

And though none of my friends will admit it from their sports high right now, I do want to say that the US played an exceptional game. It was well worth watching.
Oh, no question. This was the best two teams in the tournament, and I think they both brought their best game for this one.

Joran

2010-03-01, 12:18 PM

And I find it fun to play against the typical "grr, football" attitude a lot of people bring to these sorts of discussions. Not necessarily you, but there are people who will say "it's not a real sport," and absolutely positively mean it. I thought we were still having fun. In fact, that is typically how this conversation goes. Some guy friend of mine says "Ice dancing is not a real sport", I point out that the woman is now standing her skate blade on some part of the man's anatomy, and then he gets all sheepish and says "yeah, I kinda overdid that one." And it's all fun, and all part of the joke. The ability to riposte to mocking without thought or concern for factual accuracy is also a fundamental part of the internet.

Well, it seems to me that the Winter Olympics is basically "What's not a sport in the Summer Olympics, put it on snow or ice, and suddenly it's a Winter Olympics sport!"

Ballroom Dancing -> Ice Dancing
Motorcross/BMX -> Snowboard/Ski Cross
Shuffleboard + Bowling + Horseshoes -> Curling

For my definition of a sport, I think it has to have an objective method of determining the winner. This is why ice dancing, figure skating, half-pipe rub me the wrong way. Sure, it's beautiful to watch and requires a lot of athleticism, but a judge is required to subjectively determine who is the winner.

P.S. My reaction to the U.S. vs. Canada hockey game probably mirrors all Caps fans. "WHY DID IT HAVE TO BE CROSBY?!" Great game though. I skipped out on the third period to do some grocery shopping. The wife called me with 2 minutes left with the U.S. still down 2-1, and told me I should come home quickly. I told her, "No worries, we'll tie it up and I'll watch OT."

Indurain

2010-03-01, 12:47 PM

Well, it seems to me that the Winter Olympics is basically "What's not a sport in the Summer Olympics, put it on snow or ice, and suddenly it's a Winter Olympics sport!"

Ballroom Dancing -> Ice Dancing
Motorcross/BMX -> Snowboard/Ski Cross
Shuffleboard + Bowling + Horseshoes -> Curling

Let's be fair, I'm pretty sure that skiing was around before motorcycles. And curling's been around for over 500 years.

Just because Canadians are the only ones doing it, doesn't mean it didn't exist. :smallbiggrin:

What I don't understand is why people argue over what's the greater accomplishment? (Medal count, Gold count) Does it truly matter? Is that what the olympics are about now? Proving your country is better than all the others? Don't get me wrong, I love rubbing it in Shadow's face that we won the hockey game...but in the end, what difference does it make?

So why debate over which country "won" the olympics? I say, just enjoy the show. I know I did.

Don Julio Anejo

2010-03-01, 01:24 PM

P.S. My reaction to the U.S. vs. Canada hockey game probably mirrors all Caps fans. "WHY DID IT HAVE TO BE CROSBY?!."
Agreed, I would much rather it was Ovechkin :smallamused:

skywalker

2010-03-01, 01:46 PM

Yeah, I'm going to disagree entirely with that one.
Luongo had 2 American players within 5 feet in front of him. It was great that he was able to make the save at all.

Watch the whole play again. He has a chance (I believe with the glove) to freeze the puck about 5-10 seconds before the actual shot. But he lets it bounce out (as he has been doing all game) and an American picks it up and keeps the cycle going, which leads to the goal, eventually. He played a good game, but Miller's was better. The difference was the Canadian D. On most of those big rebounds Lu gave up, there was a red jersey there to sweep it away from him. Very few second chances for the US, but that wasn't due to Lu. It was due to guys like Pronger (I retract my earlier weaksauce comment based on his play in this game), Boyle, Niedermayer, etc. I think the defense was the one area where Canada's age actually was an advantage. Youthful mistake by American D (I believe it was Erik Johnson) lead directly to the Toews goal.

Sure, it's beautiful to watch and requires a lot of athleticism, but a judge is required to subjectively determine who is the winner.

So you would remove gymnastics, diving, etc. from the Summer Olympics?

Joran

2010-03-01, 02:30 PM

So you would remove gymnastics, diving, etc. from the Summer Olympics?

Yes, but it's not going to happen, like ice dancing and figure skating in the Winter Olympics. Also... boxing >.> <.<

So, why not embrace ballroom dancing? Based on the ratings for "Dancing with the Stars" and figure skating, it'd probably be absurdly popular. Maybe they can incorporate some kind of risk element... like sharks or covering the dance floor with lard.

SensFan

2010-03-01, 04:23 PM

Watch the whole play again. He has a chance (I believe with the glove) to freeze the puck about 5-10 seconds before the actual shot. But he lets it bounce out (as he has been doing all game) and an American picks it up and keeps the cycle going, which leads to the goal, eventually. He played a good game, but Miller's was better. The difference was the Canadian D. On most of those big rebounds Lu gave up, there was a red jersey there to sweep it away from him. Very few second chances for the US, but that wasn't due to Lu. It was due to guys like Pronger (I retract my earlier weaksauce comment based on his play in this game), Boyle, Niedermayer, etc. I think the defense was the one area where Canada's age actually was an advantage. Youthful mistake by American D (I believe it was Erik Johnson) lead directly to the Toews goal.
I think the difference was up front, not the defense. Miller was certainly the best player on the ice - as he's been since US' first game - but apart from the last part of the 3rd, Canada pushed the pace all game long, and peppered Miller. Luongo was very good, but he didn't need to be as good as Miller had to be, since the US wasn't generating close to as many scoring chances as Canada.

raitalin

2010-03-01, 04:49 PM

I'd like to point out that the purpose of the Olympics *is* nationalism. When they were recommenced at the turn of the 20th century there was a great deal of international tension and it was hoped that the Olympics would provide a non-violent outlet for this. If you look at the early Olympic posters many of them were almost military, and were crammed with nationalist imagery.

When the Olympics were corporatized in the Late 50s/Early 60s this started to decline. The U.S. vs. U.S.S.R/East Germany rivalry kept some of this going, but with the Fall the Olympics have become more of a celebration of amateur sport than a stage for countries to prove they're the best.

And Curling isn't a sport, its a game. Like horeshoes, lawn darts or golf. I suspect that competition for spots on national curling teams is going to get tough, what with so many people seeing it and thinking "*That* is all it takes to be an Olympis athlete? I can do that with a beer in my hand while smoking a cigarette!"

SensFan

2010-03-01, 04:51 PM

I suspect that competition for spots on national curling teams is going to get tough, what with so many people seeing it and thinking "*That* is all it takes to be an Olympis athlete? I can do that with a beer in my hand while smoking a cigarette!"
That's a pretty massive insult to all of us who put hours and hours into learning and practising the sport.

raitalin

2010-03-01, 05:01 PM

That's a pretty massive insult to all of us who put hours and hours into learning and practising the sport.

I've put hours and hours into playing D&D, but that doesn't make it a sport or something that anyone couldn't do if they put the time in.

Its not that I don't think Curling doesn't deserve any respect, just that it deserves the same amount of respect as anything played in the backyard at family gatherings.

SensFan

2010-03-01, 05:09 PM

I've put hours and hours into playing D&D, but that doesn't make it a sport or something that anyone couldn't do if they put the time in.

Its not that I don't think Curling doesn't deserve any respect, just that it deserves the same amount of respect as anything played in the backyard at family gatherings.
What makes Baseball/Basketball sports, and Curling not a sport?

raitalin

2010-03-01, 05:26 PM

What makes Baseball/Basketball sports, and Curling not a sport?

Alright, I've gotten into this debate a lot of times, and there isn't a definite answer. Honestly I think its a "I'll know it when I see it" thing, but I have some criteria.

1. There's direct competition. The other "team" is trying to prevent you from winning the game. +1 for Curling

2. It isn't played on a table or lane. -1 for curling.

3. It requires exceptional athleticism at its highest levels. This could change, much in the way that Tiger introduced athleticism to golf, but for right now the only thing separating anyone from an Olympic curler is practice. Notice the turnover in a lot of Olympic teams this year. -1 for curling.

Sure, its an arbitrary distinction, but everyone's got to draw the line somewhere. I could turn it around: What makes Curling a sport and billiards/horeshoes/shuffleboard/poker/D&D (wherever you draw your line) not a sport?

SensFan

2010-03-01, 05:30 PM

Alright, I've gotten into this debate a lot of times, and there isn't a definite answer. Honestly I think its a "I'll know it when I see it" thing, but I have some criteria.

1. There's direct competition. The other "team" is trying to prevent you from winning the game. +1 for Curling

2. It isn't played on a table or lane. -1 for curling.

3. It requires exceptional athleticism at its highest levels. This could change, much in the way that Tiger introduced athleticism to golf, but for right now the only thing separating anyone from an Olympic curler is practice. Notice the turnover in a lot of Olympic teams this year. -1 for curling.

Sure, its an arbitrary distinction, but everyone's got to draw the line somewhere. I could turn it around: What makes Curling a sport and billiards/horeshoes/shuffleboard/poker/D&D (wherever you draw your line) not a sport?
I've played Baseball, Soccer, Volleyball, and Football competitively. I've also played pick-up Basketball.
Curling takes far more physical exersion and athleticism than any of the above - other than Football - for 3 of the 4 players.

Joran

2010-03-01, 05:35 PM

Alright, I've gotten into this debate a lot of times, and there isn't a definite answer. Honestly I think its a "I'll know it when I see it" thing, but I have some criteria.

1. There's direct competition. The other "team" is trying to prevent you from winning the game. +1 for Curling

2. It isn't played on a table or lane. -1 for curling.

3. It requires exceptional athleticism at its highest levels. This could change, much in the way that Tiger introduced athleticism to golf, but for right now the only thing separating anyone from an Olympic curler is practice. Notice the turnover in a lot of Olympic teams this year. -1 for curling.

My criteria is:

1) Objective means of scoring or determining a winner. Style points are not awarded.

2) Requires athleticism to play. Here's where I run into a problem, but I'll go with requires physical strength, dexterity, and endurance. Hopefully, this removes games like darts, chess, shuffleboard, pool, and video games.

3) Requires that most effort be done by either gravity or the human body. So, no race car driving, no horse riding, but includes skiing and I guess bobsled/luge.

I've tried curling just last weekend. It's as much a sport as bowling, but requires more physical exertion with the sweeping, so it meets my criteria. Please punch holes in my definition; I've been working on this for sometime.

skywalker

2010-03-01, 06:31 PM

I think the difference was up front, not the defense. Miller was certainly the best player on the ice - as he's been since US' first game - but apart from the last part of the 3rd, Canada pushed the pace all game long, and peppered Miller. Luongo was very good, but he didn't need to be as good as Miller had to be, since the US wasn't generating close to as many scoring chances as Canada.

Go back and watch the game, and see how many pucks bounce off of Miller and onto a Canadian stick. Then watch how many shots bounce off of Luongo and onto an American stick. The difference is severely noticeable. Yes, the Canadian forecheck was incredible (it frequently looked like they had an extra guy on the ice, to be honest), but in the end, whether or not it was the Canadian forecheck, their proficiency at clearing the zone, or their D, they saved Luongo a lot of headaches, and when he was pressed, he looked shaky all night. He lost his net a couple times and left corners open others.

I'd like to point out that the purpose of the Olympics *is* nationalism. When they were recommenced at the turn of the 20th century there was a great deal of international tension and it was hoped that the Olympics would provide a non-violent outlet for this. If you look at the early Olympic posters many of them were almost military, and were crammed with nationalist imagery.

When the Olympics were corporatized in the Late 50s/Early 60s this started to decline. The U.S. vs. U.S.S.R/East Germany rivalry kept some of this going, but with the Fall the Olympics have become more of a celebration of amateur sport than a stage for countries to prove they're the best.

Quite right.

And Curling isn't a sport, its a game. Like horeshoes, lawn darts or golf. I suspect that competition for spots on national curling teams is going to get tough, what with so many people seeing it and thinking "*That* is all it takes to be an Olympis athlete? I can do that with a beer in my hand while smoking a cigarette!"

The apocryphal origin of curling is that it was invented by Canadians for precisely this reason.

And actually, I think you're right. My Uni just started a curling club. A lot of people are going to think what you just said, try it once, realize it is hard as hell, and quit.

Its not that I don't think Curling doesn't deserve any respect, just that it deserves the same amount of respect as anything played in the backyard at family gatherings.

The most played backyard game is probably football (take your pick of which version, to make this applicable worldwide).

3. It requires exceptional athleticism at its highest levels. This could change, much in the way that Tiger introduced athleticism to golf, but for right now the only thing separating anyone from an Olympic curler is practice. Notice the turnover in a lot of Olympic teams this year. -1 for curling.

By this definition, every sport ever invented wasn't a sport when it started.

Sure, its an arbitrary distinction, but everyone's got to draw the line somewhere. I could turn it around: What makes Curling a sport and billiards/horeshoes/shuffleboard/poker/D&D (wherever you draw your line) not a sport?

Here's an interesting criteria I just thought of: Do most competitors need a shower afterward?

Curling, most competitors do. Billiards/horseshoes/shuffleboard/poker/D&D, most people don't. Well, the D&D players who do needed one before, too. :smalltongue: