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Cowboy_ninja
2010-02-14, 01:15 AM
Is there a way to concentrate on two spells at once?

fore example: I'd like toconcentrate on Binding Winds and Storm of Elemental Fury at the same time. I can use the extraordinary concentration feat to reduce both concentration checks to move actions, but that feat specifically says that this does not allow you to concentrate on more than one spell at the same time.

Is there another way?

Irreverent Fool
2010-02-14, 01:21 AM
Offhand, there's Persist Spell which works on spells with a duration of 'concentration', thus allowing them to continue even when you aren't concentrating.

I believe there's a spell which allows you to transfer concentration of a spell to another character. Handy if you have a familiar or something summoned. I'll see if I can find it.

obnoxious
sig

Eloel
2010-02-14, 01:23 AM
You could use Solicit Psicrystal power, if you were a manifester instead of a caster.

Nothing useful here, go on.

tyckspoon
2010-02-14, 01:24 AM
There's the spell Sonorous Hum from the Spell Compendium (Clr/Wiz/Sor 3), which will take over concentration for you, and there's the Swift Concentration skill trick from Complete Scoundrel, which lets you reduce maintaining concentration to a Swift action. If you're high enough level to make use of Extraordinary Concentration, I would probably go with that + Sonorous Hum.

Cowboy_ninja
2010-02-14, 01:31 AM
There's the spell Sonorous Hum from the Spell Compendium (Clr/Wiz/Sor 3), which will take over concentration for you, and there's the Swift Concentration skill trick from Complete Scoundrel, which lets you reduce maintaining concentration to a Swift action. If you're high enough level to make use of Extraordinary Concentration, I would probably go with that + Sonorous Hum.

.... ok great.... anyone know how to add Sonorous Hum to the Druid Spell list?:smallbiggrin:

Cowboy_ninja
2010-02-14, 01:33 AM
Offhand, there's Persist Spell which works on spells with a duration of 'concentration', thus allowing them to continue even when you aren't concentrating.

I believe there's a spell which allows you to transfer concentration of a spell to another character. Handy if you have a familiar or something summoned. I'll see if I can find it.

obnoxious
sig

What book is Persist Spell in?

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-14, 01:33 AM
.... ok great.... anyone know how to add Sonorous Hum to the Druid Spell list?:smallbiggrin:Be a cleric?

Kumori
2010-02-14, 01:35 AM
Persistent Spell is in Complete Arcane, page 81, or here (http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Feats.pdf), page 58.

Cowboy_ninja
2010-02-14, 01:42 AM
Persistent Spell is in Complete Arcane, page 81, or here (http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Feats.pdf), page 58.

Oh right. Duh. The 24 hr spell. I was reading Persist spell for no reason....

Cowboy_ninja
2010-02-14, 01:44 AM
Offhand, there's Persist Spell which works on spells with a duration of 'concentration', thus allowing them to continue even when you aren't concentrating.

I believe there's a spell which allows you to transfer concentration of a spell to another character. Handy if you have a familiar or something summoned. I'll see if I can find it.

obnoxious
sig

That sounds good. Please post when you find it.

Dimers
2010-02-14, 03:12 AM
There's also an 8th-level wu jen spell in CArc called finding the center, which utterly removes the need to concentrate on one spell for ten minutes. That and the "psicrystal concentrates for you" power are the only two abilities I know about.

Adumbration
2010-02-14, 03:22 AM
Spirit shaman gets an ability that allows the spirit guide to concentrate on a spell in your behalf. 10th level, IIRC.

Pluto
2010-02-14, 03:36 AM
Is there a way to concentrate on two spells at once?

I suddenly want to play a Synad Spirit Shaman/Sanctified Mind with a Psicrystal and Extraordinary Concentration.
And items for Schism and Sonorous Hum.
It will be *awesome*

PhoenixRivers
2010-02-14, 03:38 AM
Alternately, you could just spam sonorous hum, followed by concentration spells, over and over.

Energy Transformation Field can also maintain concentration.

magic9mushroom
2010-02-14, 06:09 AM
I should note that if you're Swift Concentrating or Extraordinarily Concentrating on spells, you can't cast others (Swift Concentration allows you to concentrate on others, but not cast them). Only Sonorous Hum allows you to cast while concentrating.

Aharon
2010-02-14, 06:28 AM
@Phoenix
just a question, not a definite statement:
Wouldn't the rule about stacking apply, so that only the last spell cast is maintained? If not, could you explain why?



Same Effect with Differing Results: The same spell can sometimes
produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than
once. For example, a series of polymorph spells might turn a creature
into a mouse, a lion, and then a snail. In this case, the last spell in the
series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually
removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the
final spell in the series lasts.

PhoenixRivers
2010-02-14, 06:31 AM
@Phoenix
just a question, not a definite statement:
Wouldn't the rule about stacking apply, so that only the last spell cast is maintained? If not, could you explain why?

Sonorous Hum - Next spell cast is maintained by it.
Summon Elemental Monolith. <Gets maintained>
then
Sonorous Hum - Next spell cast is maintained by it.
Summon Elemental Monolith <Gets maintained>

It's not an effect which stacks. Each casting applies seperately to a different spell. You thread the spells back and forth.

You're not <Spamming Sonorous hum> followed by concentration spells.

You're Spamming <Sonorous hum, followed by a concentration spell>.

Aharon
2010-02-14, 07:28 AM
Ok, thanks. I was mislead by the fact that it has a range of personal and a target of you, although it actually affects spells you cast.

Minor nitpick: I think the stacking rule actually does kick in, as all Sonorous Hums you cast have Target: You, but doesn't do anything in this case, as none of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled. Is that correct?

PhoenixRivers
2010-02-14, 07:36 AM
Ok, thanks. I was mislead by the fact that it has a range of personal and a target of you, although it actually affects spells you cast.

Minor nitpick: I think the stacking rule actually does kick in, as all Sonorous Hums you cast have Target: You, but doesn't do anything in this case, as none of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled. Is that correct?

Multiple copies of a spell are permitted on a single character, and stacking rules are only invoked if they produce redundant effects (such as 2 Charm Person spells), or the same effect, in differing strengths (or the same strength).

Each one is seperately maintaining a different spell. Thus, their effects are not redundant, as they affect different things. In the same way, you can have 2 castings of Fire Shield up, one for fire, one for cold, and they both work fine, because the effect is not redundant.

Similarly, you may have more than one casting of Energy Immunity active on you, and, if for different elements, the effects are not overlapping in any way.

Now, you can't effectively twin a sonorous hum, because they'll both lock onto the next spell you cast (creating a redundant effect). Granted, this would make the hum more difficult to dispel, but would otherwise produce no other effect.

Basically, what a spell targets, and what it affects are two different things in this case.

T.G. Oskar
2010-02-14, 07:45 AM
I should note that if you're Swift Concentrating or Extraordinarily Concentrating on spells, you can't cast others (Swift Concentration allows you to concentrate on others, but not cast them). Only Sonorous Hum allows you to cast while concentrating.

So does the Spirit Shaman's Spirit Guide. The spirit effectively takes over concentration of your spell for as long as you desire, and uses your Concentration modifier if necessary. It's also a free action, so you get both the ability to cast concentration spells AND retain your swift action.

However...I'd find a tad more prudent to get which spells are concentration-based. I knew of Binding Winds (darn, it's a good spell!), but not of any others, which affects the power of these kinds of abilities.

PhoenixRivers
2010-02-14, 07:54 AM
So does the Spirit Shaman's Spirit Guide. The spirit effectively takes over concentration of your spell for as long as you desire, and uses your Concentration modifier if necessary. It's also a free action, so you get both the ability to cast concentration spells AND retain your swift action.

However...I'd find a tad more prudent to get which spells are concentration-based. I knew of Binding Winds (darn, it's a good spell!), but not of any others, which affects the power of these kinds of abilities.

At high levels, Summon Elemental Monolith is good.

magic9mushroom
2010-02-14, 08:01 AM
Now, you can't effectively twin a sonorous hum, because they'll both lock onto the next spell you cast (creating a redundant effect). Granted, this would make the hum more difficult to dispel, but would otherwise produce no other effect.

You could Repeat it, though.


So does the Spirit Shaman's Spirit Guide. The spirit effectively takes over concentration of your spell for as long as you desire, and uses your Concentration modifier if necessary. It's also a free action, so you get both the ability to cast concentration spells AND retain your swift action.

I wasn't familiar with that, and was hence specifying the details of stuff I did know that does it.

Bayar
2010-02-14, 11:11 AM
It should be noted that swift concentration lets you make a concentration check as a swift action for only one round.

Heliomance
2010-02-14, 12:07 PM
I believe an Epic concentration check also lets you concentrate as a move or swift action, doesn't it?

magic9mushroom
2010-02-14, 12:18 PM
I believe an Epic concentration check also lets you concentrate as a move or swift action, doesn't it?

No.aaaaaaa

Acero
2010-02-14, 01:42 PM
i want to fire disintegrate off every finger at once...

Keld Denar
2010-02-14, 01:53 PM
Beholder Mage? Technically, they aren't fingers, and technically they aren't all disintegrates...but close enough!

magic9mushroom
2010-02-14, 02:02 PM
i want to fire disintegrate off every finger at once...

Split and Twin it.

Cowboy_ninja
2010-02-14, 05:38 PM
So if I did manage to concetrate on a spell say Call Lightning Storm as a swift or move action via the skill trick or Extrodinary Concetration. Am I still allowed to cast another spell in the same round with my remaining standard action?

Sinfire Titan
2010-02-14, 05:41 PM
So if I did manage to concetrate on a spell say Call Lightning Storm as a swift or move action via the skill trick or Extrodinary Concetration. Am I still allowed to cast another spell in the same round with my remaining standard action?

RAW: No, because you are still Concentrating on a spell. Attempting to cast another spell ends the Concentration on the first one.

RAI: Ask your DM, but the answer will most likely be yes unless the really read that rule closely.

Splendor
2010-02-14, 05:48 PM
Yes you can use Extraordinary Concentration to concentrate on a spell and cast another spell.


RAW: No, because you are still Concentrating on a spell. Attempting to cast another spell ends the Concentration on the first one.
Rule location? The feat Extraordinary Concentration is suppose to allow you to cast spells when concentrating on another spell.

Edit: found the rule

CONCENTRATION - Rules compendium pg 127
The spell lasts for as long as you concentrate on it. Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that doesn’t
provoke attacks of opportunity. Anything that could break your concentration when casting a spell can also break
your concentration while you’re maintaining one, causing the spell to end.
You can’t cast a spell while concentrating on another one. Sometimes a spell lasts for a short time after you
cease concentrating.
But if this is the case and Extraordinary Concentration doesn't bypass it, then Extraordinary Concentration is pretty much a useless feat.

Infact you couldn't concentrate on a spell and cast a quickened spell either with this rule.

You could take:
Familiar Concentration (lost empires of faerun pg 8)
Prerequisites: Improved Familiar, caster level 9th.
Benefit: When you cast a spell requiring concentration, you can designate your familiar as the “concentrator.” At any time during the spell’s duration, you can hand over control of it to your familiar as a free action, provided the creature is within 5 feet of you and its Intelligence score is at least 10 + the level of the spell. The familiar then concentrates to maintain and direct the spell just as you would. You cannot take back control of a spell once you have transferred it to your familiar.

The Glyphstone
2010-02-14, 06:06 PM
Yes you can use Extraordinary Concentration to concentrate on a spell and cast another spell.


Rule location? The feat Extraordinary Concentration is suppose to allow you to cast spells when concentrating on another spell.

Edit: found the rule

But if this is the case and Extraordinary Concentration doesn't bypass it, then Extraordinary Concentration is pretty much a useless feat.

.

Much less useful, but not entirely useless. With Extraordinary Concentration, you now have either a move action or a standard action, instead of just a move action, after concentrating. That opens up a lot more options of things to do during your turn, from hitting someone over the head (if you're a gish) to drinking a potion (that you drew last turn).

Cowboy_ninja
2010-02-14, 06:15 PM
Would it not depend on the spell?

I know Extrodinary Concentration does not allow you to concentrate on two spells at once, but spells like Call Lightning whose duration does not end when you stop concentrating on it, it simply calls down another lightnign bolt. Another example is Whirlwind where concentrating only moves the whirlwind it in a different direction. In other words these spells do not need concentration to maintain them, they simple do things when you concentrate on them.

Extrodinary Concentration does not allow you to concentrate on two spells at once but what rule states that you can't concentrate on a spell as a move/swift action and cast another? Even more so, concentrate on a spell like the ones mentioned above, and cast another spell.

lsfreak
2010-02-14, 06:39 PM
The fluff of Extraordinary Concentration makes it perfectly clear it's supposed to let you maintain a spell and keep casting. But the rules in the feat doesn't ever actually override the rule that to cast you have to give up concentration. I'm pretty sure 99% of DM's would let you take the feat, concentrating as a move/swift action and casting another spell as a standard action.

Splendor
2010-02-14, 08:18 PM
Extrodinary Concentration does not allow you to concentrate on two spells at once but what rule states that you can't concentrate on a spell as a move/swift action and cast another?

as I stated above

CONCENTRATION - Rules compendium pg 127
The spell lasts for as long as you concentrate on it. Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. Anything that could break your concentration when casting a spell can also break your concentration while you’re maintaining one, causing the spell to end.
You can’t cast a spell while concentrating on another one. Sometimes a spell lasts for a short time after you cease concentrating.

And I fully agree with "lsfreak" it should allow you to cast a spell when concentrating on another. The feat wasn't worded correctly when written.

With the way that Concentration is written there is no way to concentrate on one spell and cast another. And as I said earlier this also means you cannot concentrate on a spell and cast a quickened spell either.

magic9mushroom
2010-02-15, 02:02 AM
So if I did manage to concetrate on a spell say Call Lightning Storm as a swift or move action via the skill trick or Extrodinary Concetration. Am I still allowed to cast another spell in the same round with my remaining standard action?

For spells that don't require constant concentration, yes, because you're not concentrating when you cast the spell. (You can't concentrate on another spell, though.)

For concentration duration spells, no. You need Sonorous Hum or one of the ways to get someone else concentrating for you.