Worst Security in Fiction

[Randel]

In movies, comics, and video games there can be some pretty crummy security in place to protect valuable people or items. What are the most blatant violations of proper security in fiction?


One example is how the governement kept tabs of Doctor Manhattan in the Watchmen movie and the comic.


First off, its the United States of America thats running the building that Manhattan and Silk Spectre are in so they should at least know about proper security measures. Second, Doctor Manhattan is basically a physical god capable of synthesising any material needed on demand, seeing the future, solving near impossible questions about the physical universe, and he's basically Americas missile defence system during the Cold War and a potential person of mass destruction.

Frankly, he should have been under 24 hour constant security, had teams of psychiatrists and physicists keeping tabs on him comstantly, had a small army there to protect him in case the Russians snuck some sort of suitcase Intristic Field Nullifier bomb across the border, and had a dozen or so backup girlfriends to keep Manhattan occupied in case the first one dumps him.

Oh, and the complex itself should have been inside a Fort Knox, inside another Fort Knox, under Cheyenne Mountain, in Area 51, with several other Area 51's around as decoys and have him randomly rotated between other ultra-secure compounds daily. It should be pretty much physically impossible for anyone to get inside without teleporting and even then impossible to teleport in and out without someone noticing. If Doctor Manhattan were to get some sort of weird demi-god flu that puts him out of commision or makes him sneeze anti-matter then they want a team of people on hand to deal with the problem.

Instead, the security is so bad that Rorscach can get inside (I like Rorschach, but I gotta admit he is no James Bond. He has no business being able to sneak into a government building holding a WMD. It should be easier to sneak into the White House than to sneak into Manhattans compound). And later on in the movie Manhattan builds that weird physics defying generator thing based off his powers and then teleports it to Ozymandias artic complex. He should not be able to send GODtech devices to a civilian businessman who's base of operations is located at the north pole without somebody from the government noticing and either stopping him or otherwise following up on it.

I would find it rather satisfying if Ozys plan fell apart because somebody in the US government looked over the security logs regarding what their local demigod was up to on the days before he left and noticed that he sent something to an arctic base to Ozymandias... and all the scientists who were helping to work on the project mysteriously vanished.


Anyway, what other huge security breaches in fiction could have been avoided with some common sense?

[Prime32]

TVTropes calls this Lex Luthor Security (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LexLuthorSecurity). So that's one obvious example. :smalltongue:

[Lord of Rapture]

You're talking about upgrading security for a guy who is practically a Living God who is impervious to any kind of human assault.

Yeah, I think the security for Manhattan takes care of itself. :smallsmile:

[BRC]

Remember, Doctor Manhattan is pretty much invincible. It's not like a guy with a gun could slip into the compound and kill or kidnap him, and if he wanted to leave it's not like the US military could have stopped him.

No, the worst security in Fiction goes to Arkham Asylum from Batman. Now, if the game Batman Arkham Asylum is any indication, Arkham actually has incredibly good security, and yet the inmates/patients keep breaking out somehow. Considering the nature of the inmates you'd think they would step things up, or stop sending every supervillain in Gotham there, you know, considering it's track record and all.

[Starscream]

Arkham Asylum should install a revolving door. At times it seems to almost work on the honor system.

The Joker in particular seems to be able to leave at will. One comic mentioned that Batman always tries to leave him with a broken bone or two when they fight, in the hopes that he will take some time to convalesce before escaping again.

Yeah, he actually trusts a couple of broken ribs to contain the Joker more than he trusts the walls and armed guards. That's saying something.

[BRC]

Hi, welcome to Arkham, I see you're new here so lets go over some rules.
This is your cell, the lock is a little fragile so be careful with it, and if you want some fresh air you can just open that nice big window there.
Oh dear, somebody seems to have left a pile of rope, guns, jetpacks, and the Asylum blueprints in your cell. Somebody will be by in a couple days to clean that up for you. Your guard will be Jake, he's got narcolepsy, so if you see him falling a sleep be a dear and wake him up for me.

Oh right, the rules. Meals are served 6:30-8:30, 11:30-1:30, and 5:30-7:30, cell inspections occur once a month, group therapy occurs weekly, you can talk with your doctor about grounds privilages...hrm...there must be something I'm forgetting...oh right, please no escaping. Okay, I think that's about it, enjoy your stay here.

[Innis Cabal]

Arkham Asylum should install a revolving door. At times it seems to almost work on the honor system.

The Joker in particular seems to be able to leave at will. One comic mentioned that Batman always tries to leave him with a broken bone or two when they fight, in the hopes that he will take some time to convalesce before escaping again.

Yeah, he actually trusts a couple of broken ribs to contain the Joker more than he trusts the walls and armed guards. That's saying something.

Its been suggested the Asylum itself is the problem, not just the guards. That after so many crazies, its become a Genus Loci and is actually letting the prisoners out.

[X2]

The only thing I can remember from Flight of the Navigator when I saw it all those years ago is me and my dad marvelling at the stupidity of the guards in the movie.

[Lord of Rapture]

Its been suggested the Asylum itself is the problem, not just the guards. That after so many crazies, its become a Genus Loci and is actually letting the prisoners out.

Source please. That sounds too logical and awesome to be true.

[Oslecamo]

Its been suggested the Asylum itself is the problem, not just the guards. That after so many crazies, its become a Genus Loci and is actually letting the prisoners out.

Trust me, there are much worst super villain "prisons" out there.

The one where they sent Carnage to for example. Yes, the psychotic bullet-proof mass murderer with a super symbiosis.

They had nothing more than leather straps and normal batons to try to to restrain him.

There were no survivors.

Men, the economy must be really tough in Marvel universe, for people having acepted to work in those conditions in the first place!

[Dr.Epic]

In movies, comics, and video games there can be some pretty crummy security in place to protect valuable people or items. What are the most blatant violations of proper security in fiction?


One example is how the governement kept tabs of Doctor Manhattan in the Watchmen movie and the comic.


First off, its the United States of America thats running the building that Manhattan and Silk Spectre are in so they should at least know about proper security measures. Second, Doctor Manhattan is basically a physical god capable of synthesising any material needed on demand, seeing the future, solving near impossible questions about the physical universe, and he's basically Americas missile defence system during the Cold War and a potential person of mass destruction.

Frankly, he should have been under 24 hour constant security, had teams of psychiatrists and physicists keeping tabs on him comstantly, had a small army there to protect him in case the Russians snuck some sort of suitcase Intristic Field Nullifier bomb across the border, and had a dozen or so backup girlfriends to keep Manhattan occupied in case the first one dumps him.

Oh, and the complex itself should have been inside a Fort Knox, inside another Fort Knox, under Cheyenne Mountain, in Area 51, with several other Area 51's around as decoys and have him randomly rotated between other ultra-secure compounds daily. It should be pretty much physically impossible for anyone to get inside without teleporting and even then impossible to teleport in and out without someone noticing. If Doctor Manhattan were to get some sort of weird demi-god flu that puts him out of commision or makes him sneeze anti-matter then they want a team of people on hand to deal with the problem.

Instead, the security is so bad that Rorscach can get inside (I like Rorschach, but I gotta admit he is no James Bond. He has no business being able to sneak into a government building holding a WMD. It should be easier to sneak into the White House than to sneak into Manhattans compound). And later on in the movie Manhattan builds that weird physics defying generator thing based off his powers and then teleports it to Ozymandias artic complex. He should not be able to send GODtech devices to a civilian businessman who's base of operations is located at the north pole without somebody from the government noticing and either stopping him or otherwise following up on it.

I would find it rather satisfying if Ozys plan fell apart because somebody in the US government looked over the security logs regarding what their local demigod was up to on the days before he left and noticed that he sent something to an arctic base to Ozymandias... and all the scientists who were helping to work on the project mysteriously vanished.


Anyway, what other huge security breaches in fiction could have been avoided with some common sense?

Prepare to have you comments ripped apart.

-He doesn't see the future. He sees all time simutaneously: "I can't change the future. To me it's already happened."
-Dr. Manhattan can suvive without an intinsic field so big deal if the Russians found a way to mess with that.
-A girlfriend dumping Manhattan is going to reak havoc on his emotional state. You think a new one is just going to make him feel better?
-In general, why would Dr. Manhattan need security? He can pretty much kill anyone on the planet and is unkillable. That's like hiring a body guard for Brock Samson or Cthulhu: do they really need the protection?
-You comments about Dr. Manhattan sending Adrian his powers in the movie: movie's stupid. Don't waste you time thinking about it. It in no ways lives up to the comic.

[Starscream]

Source please. That sounds too logical and awesome to be true.

Well, a few books over the years have suggested that the place itself is cursed. But the main one everyone remembers is Grant Morrison's Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth.

In that story, it is revealed that the founder of the asylum came under the belief that the house itself drove people mad, and that this was caused by an evil demon he called "The Bat". He himself went nuts, was committed to his own asylum, and spent the rest of his days scratching a spell intended to bind the Bat into his cell's floor with his fingernails.

An insane doctor in modern times believes that Batman himself is The Bat, and is responsible for making things worse by bringing the asylum more madmen.

[Dr.Epic]

The vault in the movie Hobgoblins. First, it was locked behind a bar cell which wasn't locked and the vault was neither locked either. And the monsters in the vault caused people to hallucinate which would in some way lead to their demise.

[Dire Moose]

Star Trek has a particularly noteworthy problem with security. Namely, the fact that anyone can just walk right into the shuttlebay and steal a shuttlecraft without the crew noticing is sad enough as is. When this keeps happening over the course of an entire century and no security improvements have been made, you've got to wonder what Starfleet was smoking.

Maybe the lax security is for the best, though. After all, we know what usually happens to Starfleet security officers (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/7/78/20070212191802!Redshirt_comic.jpg)...

[Coidzor]

The Ministry of Magic in the Harry Potter universe.

Then again, they're wizards, so they have no concept of proper protocols for anything. *rolls eyes*

[warty goblin]

The Ministry of Magic in the Harry Potter universe.

Then again, they're wizards, so they have no concept of proper protocols for anything. *rolls eyes*

My explanation for most Harry Potter common sense failures at this point is that the magic gland in a wizard's brain takes all the blood meant for abstract reasoning. Occasionally you get a lucky mutation that results in somebody who can actually think and do magic, but it's hard for this to get recognized because nobody else really understands what is going on.

[Dr.Epic]

My explanation for most Harry Potter common sense failures at this point is that the magic gland in a wizard's brain takes all the blood meant for abstract reasoning. Occasionally you get a lucky mutation that results in somebody who can actually think and do magic, but it's hard for this to get recognized because nobody else really understands what is going on.

Or, you know, a wizard did it.

[Drakyn]

Considering how much random symbolism and general "magiciness" there is involved in magic, I half-wonder if a good chunk of the perceived lack of common sense with those guys is due to being raised in an environment where things that make no logical sense are more common than logic itself.

[Optimystik]

Hi, welcome to Arkham, I see you're new here so lets go over some rules.
This is your cell, the lock is a little fragile so be careful with it, and if you want some fresh air you can just open that nice big window there.
Oh dear, somebody seems to have left a pile of rope, guns, jetpacks, and the Asylum blueprints in your cell. Somebody will be by in a couple days to clean that up for you. Your guard will be Jake, he's got narcolepsy, so if you see him falling a sleep be a dear and wake him up for me.

Oh right, the rules. Meals are served 6:30-8:30, 11:30-1:30, and 5:30-7:30, cell inspections occur once a month, group therapy occurs weekly, you can talk with your doctor about grounds privilages...hrm...there must be something I'm forgetting...oh right, please no escaping. Okay, I think that's about it, enjoy your stay here.

Ok, this thread's purpose has been fulfilled

[skywalker]

An insane doctor in modern times believes that Batman himself is The Bat, and is responsible for making things worse by bringing the asylum more madmen.

I love ideas like this one.

Are we sure it's the doctor who's insane?!


The Ministry of Magic in the Harry Potter universe.

Then again, they're wizards, so they have no concept of proper protocols for anything. *rolls eyes*

What on Earth would you possibly want to take from the Ministry of Magic? Seems like most of the stuff they deal with is rather public, the stuff that isn't (everything Harry and co. dealt with in Book 5) pretty much protects itself, and when you can read someone's mind, why bother rifling through his papers?


My explanation for most Harry Potter common sense failures at this point is that the magic gland in a wizard's brain takes all the blood meant for abstract reasoning. Occasionally you get a lucky mutation that results in somebody who can actually think and do magic, but it's hard for this to get recognized because nobody else really understands what is going on.

Most of what you read in Harry Potter is about children. 11-17 year olds do not the most rational thinkers make, ya?

[Tavar]

Doesn't explain why the adults act that way as well.

[Avilan the Grey]

Source please. That sounds too logical and awesome to be true.

Depending on mythos (alternative worlds, what-ifs etc) I also recall that the founder / creator of the place was insane to begin with?

Edited:
Ah. Not reading through the threads do that to you. Not Ninja, but sloppy.
Yes The Bat explanation is very Awesome.

[Bouregard]

Star Wars: The Clone Wars ... How manage Jedi to sneak in high sensitive areas of the droid armies? I mean take those Trade Federation Cruisers... Just turn off life support. Your Clanker army won't need it. And every Jedi stupid enough to enter such a ship will simply die from vacuum or have to wear a clunky spacesuit that reduces fighting ability.

And Jedi are primary melee fighters. How about special droids thet set off a thermal detonator the second they get wasted? Of course you have to loosen up your formations a bit...

Sync your droids firing modes:
If more then 10 droids fight a single jedi, they should try to surround him and then stop firing for a fraction of a second, every droid aims for a different spot on the jedi and then every droid fires. They can block bolts. But not hundreds approaching from different directions in different heights at the exact same time.

Or the low tech variant:

Close all openings to room with Jedi. Flood it with water as fast as possible.

a) wait for him to drown
b) heat the water (microwave for fun, yeah!)
c)throw a grenade in the room.

(Assumption: Lightsabers don't work underwater, so no cutting free.)

[hamishspence]

Assumption is half-right. Normal lightsabers short out underwater.

There are, however, waterproof lightsabers, that work- and cut things just fine. Usually used by Jedi of aquatic species.

So, in general, it would work, until the Jedi catch on and start making waterproof lightsabers more often.

[Bouregard]

Assumption is half-right. Normal lightsabers short out underwater.

There are, however, waterproof lightsabers, that work- and cut things just fine. Usually used by Jedi of aquatic species.

So, in general, it would work, until the Jedi catch on and start making waterproof lightsabers more often.

But wouldn't they cook the water around them? And if the room is sufficiently small the jedi too?

[Spiryt]

Or the low tech variant:

Close all openings to room with Jedi. Flood it with water as fast as possible.

a) wait for him to drown
b) heat the water (microwave for fun, yeah!)
c)throw a grenade in the room.

(Assumption: Lightsabers don't work underwater, so no cutting free.)
How it's low tech?

Where one should take all this water from? Even with small 5 x 5 x 3 meters room it's at least 70 tonnes of water.

How to pump this water in there, and trough what? And what starship/whatever should have rooms like that? And for what?

And if you can microwave the water, why not just microwave the jedi? Much simpler.

[rakkoon]

why not just microwave the jedi? Much simpler.

That has GOT to be the quote of the week!

[Bouregard]

That has GOT to be the quote of the week!

Mhm I don't know how fast someone dies in a microwave oven... So I think it's smarter to prevent them from escaping in case the Jedi has to be well done to die.

[daecrist]

Star Trek has a particularly noteworthy problem with security. Namely, the fact that anyone can just walk right into the shuttlebay and steal a shuttlecraft without the crew noticing is sad enough as is. When this keeps happening over the course of an entire century and no security improvements have been made, you've got to wonder what Starfleet was smoking.

Heck, even when they have armed security guards keeping an eye on things it doesn't work out. Think of the numerous aliens Worf "escorted" only to get his butt handed to him in a fight.

And there's the most famous example in Star Trek III when they bust McCoy out of prison. "Don't call me tiny."

[Coidzor]

Or the low tech variant:

Arm your men/droids/???? with shotguns.

[Avilan the Grey]

Arm your men/droids/???? with shotguns.

Side track / nitpick:

Comic book physics... When John Byrne ran Wonder Woman, she made a comment once that she wasn't sure if her bracers would stop a shotgun blast (meaning she might have been hurt or killed by a thug preparing to blast her from a yard away) but as usual she later takes a beating that would flatten a tank, and energy shots from Darkseids troops.
So she is night unkillable by blunt force trauma, but you can kill her with a shotgun?

...Not very likely, no.

[Drakyn]

Superhero clause. Regardless of powers, you are nigh invulnerable to savage beatings and any of their legitmate side effects (broken bones, crushed internal organs, internal haemorrhaging) as well as energy weapons, which we all know are actually 500x weaker than bullets because you can show people getting hit by them all the time, even in cartoons. I think these rules have eased up over the last couple of decades, but aren't exactly dead yet.
Besides, Wonder Woman has soft, delicate, bullet-piercable skin because she's made sure to use lotions. BEAUTY PRODUCTS LEAD DIRECTLY TO BULLET WOUNDS.

[AstralFire]

Wonder Woman was originally made of clay. As a result, she's supposed to be less resilient against point-force. That was definitely taking it too far though.

[Mercenary Pen]

Star Wars: The Clone Wars ... How manage Jedi to sneak in high sensitive areas of the droid armies? I mean take those Trade Federation Cruisers... Just turn off life support. Your Clanker army won't need it. And every Jedi stupid enough to enter such a ship will simply die from vacuum or have to wear a clunky spacesuit that reduces fighting ability.

Well, most of the droid ships actually had skeleton biological crew providing vital command functions- so the ships were kept properly pressurised so that they could move about as needed. This also saves having to section the interior of the ship more than is absolutely essential and removes the need for vast numbers of airlocks between sections- thus making the ships cheaper to construct... Of course, adding all those extra airlocks (probably with blast doors on both sides) and thick internal partition walls would have slowed down clone/jedi boarding actions immensely, though it would have reduced overall droid capacity. Considering that- during the clone wars- pretty much every capital ship was trying to function as a fleet carrier and an assault landing ship in addition to any other mission role(s) it may have had, the separatists seem to have chosen droid capacity and ease of movement every time.

[Drakyn]

A good example of poor security would be the Vault from Marvel Comic's late 80s. It was a superpowered prison, and we all know how THOSE turn out. Interestingly enough, after it was blown up for good, apparently the writers summed up the issues with it (and by extension, ALL superpowered prisons) as follows:
-If it's secure, you can never use villains that get chucked in it again.
-But you need those villains, so breakouts happen all the time for all the titles in your lineups, because any villain taken into state custody gets sent there.
-But the place is being used precisely because its entire purpose is to be ultra-secure.
-Damn, this makes so little sense even characters in a superhero comic'll notice it.

[skywalker]

Side track / nitpick:

Comic book physics... When John Byrne ran Wonder Woman, she made a comment once that she wasn't sure if her bracers would stop a shotgun blast (meaning she might have been hurt or killed by a thug preparing to blast her from a yard away) but as usual she later takes a beating that would flatten a tank, and energy shots from Darkseids troops.
So she is night unkillable by blunt force trauma, but you can kill her with a shotgun?

...Not very likely, no.

Even more of a nitpick: A shotgun blast from a yard away with the typical "killing people" load (00 buck shot) will be essentially one massive bullet. IE, the pellets stay stacked pretty well the way they were in the shell. At 15 yards, your typical buckshot load will spread out a bit but it's less like a "cloud of lead" and more like a "largish blob" of lead.

You will get more spread at longer ranges, but if you spread far enough to confound her "blocking sense," you also get close to spreading far enough to only give her a couple of projectiles she needs to block. And while bird shot would put quite a few more projectiles in the air, there are records of it being stopped by a thick coat, so I doubt Wonder Woman would have much trouble.


A good example of poor security would be the Vault from Marvel Comic's late 80s. It was a superpowered prison, and we all know how THOSE turn out. Interestingly enough, after it was blown up for good, apparently the writers summed up the issues with it (and by extension, ALL superpowered prisons) as follows:
-If it's secure, you can never use villains that get chucked in it again.
-But you need those villains, so breakouts happen all the time for all the titles in your lineups, because any villain taken into state custody gets sent there.
-But the place is being used precisely because its entire purpose is to be ultra-secure.
-Damn, this makes so little sense even characters in a superhero comic'll notice it.

This is why I prefer the "he has really good lawyers" method of getting criminals "de-captured."

[Drakyn]

This is why I prefer the "he has really good lawyers" method of getting criminals "de-captured."

Honestly, no matter what excuses you're using, a villain that's still actively miscreantful long years after introduction needs one of the following to remain plausible:
A: A part of one long legitimate story arc, as opposed to playing catch-and-release in many smaller appearances that make each new occurance of permitted bad behaviour increasingly improbable.
Or
B: Never enough of an actual threat or danger in the first place to warrant someone taking extreme measures (really locking them up will or killing them).
Considering both of these, it's no wonder that long-running superhero comic series tend to bear the brunt of these issues. Have a good villainand he'll never leave the house. Even if he has to wait 50 years, he WILL COME BACK. Of course, the same holds true for the good guys, so at least it can't be said it's utterly unfair. Equal-terms implausibility for all.

[Joran]

One pretty blatant security gaffe was in Minority Report.

In the near future, everyone is tracked via retinal scans; everywhere a person goes, their eyes are scanned for everything from personalized ads to access to the most secure crime fighting facility in the country.

Tom Cruise, top crime fighter, has to suddenly go on the lam. He notices that the police can follow him because his eyes are scanned, so he changes out his eyes. Then he uses his old eyes (remember: tagged as a criminal) to enter the most secure portion of the most secure crime fighting facility in the country. He didn't hack into the security system; he just used his old credentials. Someone apparently failed to lock him out of the facility.

Okay, maybe the bum in charge of the access control list forgot to file the right paperwork even though Tom Cruise was a wanted criminal, perfectly understandable with government work. Tom Cruise is captured and locked in the jail in the most secure crime fighting facility in the country, where he will stay for the rest of his life.

Tom Cruise's wife suddenly marches into the jail, using his old eyes AGAIN to gain access and breaks him out. /facepalm

[chiasaur11]

I think the FF generally solved the problem well enough.

Have baddies you point blank can't lock up. And generally apparently kill them at the end of every story.

[Jahkaivah]

The vault in the movie Hobgoblins. First, it was locked behind a bar cell which wasn't locked and the vault was neither locked either. And the monsters in the vault caused people to hallucinate which would in some way lead to their demise.

That bank door killed a man.

[Pastafarian]

And later on in the movie Manhattan builds that weird physics defying generator thing based off his powers and then teleports it to Ozymandias artic complex. He should not be able to send GODtech devices to a civilian businessman who's base of operations is located at the north pole without somebody from the government noticing and either stopping him or otherwise following up on it.
-You comments about Dr. Manhattan sending Adrian his powers in the movie: movie's stupid. Don't waste you time thinking about it. It in no ways lives up to the comic.

You're pretty much flat out wrong here. The movie is at least as well thought out as the comic, and this is no exception. Veidt was working to reverse-engineer Manhattan's powers, supposedly for civilian electricity generation, and was doing so with the full support of the government; they thought they knew what he was doing, and had no desire to stop him.

Sorry about that, but the knee-jerk reaction of "adaptations always suck" bugs me. And to keep this post at least partly on topic, I nominate the Wraith of Stargate Atlantis. The protagonists seem to spend just about every other episode traipsing about through various Wraith facilities and ships, usually encountering only minimal resistance.

EDIT: And I'm pretty sure it's the south pole.

[Dr.Epic]

You're pretty much flat out wrong here. The movie is at least as well thought out as the comic, and this is no exception. Veidt was working to reverse-engineer Manhattan's powers, supposedly for civilian electricity generation, and was doing so with the full support of the government; they thought they knew what he was doing, and had no desire to stop him.

Thought out or not it's still not as good as the comic. A movie is just the wrong medium for the Watchmen story not to mention they cut the squid out which makes far more sense than that stupid generator thing in the film. Also, movie had plot holes the comic didn't. The movie also had to condense/cut out about half the stuff from the book making it harder for the film to illustrate its themes.

[BRC]

Thought out or not it's still not as good as the comic. A movie is just the wrong medium for the Watchmen story not to mention they cut the squid out which makes far more sense than that stupid generator thing in the film. Also, movie had plot holes the comic didn't. The movie also had to condense/cut out about half the stuff from the book making it harder for the film to illustrate its themes.
I'll admit alot of stuff the Film did worse than the Book, but the ending wasn't part of it.

Framing Dr Manhattan for attacking multiple cities works alot better than the Squid from a logical standpoint. If Ozzy's goal was to unite the world against a common threat, he needed to threaten the entire world. The Squid plan assumes the US won't say "ZOMG, THE RUSSIANS HAVE TEAMED UP WITH THE MARTIANS! NUKE 'EM"

[rakkoon]

Feel free to spoiler the end of movies people. Really, don't hold back

[Dr.Epic]

I'll admit alot of stuff the Film did worse than the Book, but the ending wasn't part of it.

Framing Dr Manhattan for attacking multiple cities works alot better than the Squid from a logical standpoint. If Ozzy's goal was to unite the world against a common threat, he needed to threaten the entire world. The Squid plan assumes the US won't say "ZOMG, THE RUSSIANS HAVE TEAMED UP WITH THE MARTIANS! NUKE 'EM"

A. Adrian cloned the squid from the mind of a human psychic sending images of alien worlds to people all around the world to make people truly believe an alien race threatened all humanity.

B. I kind of think if Dr. Manhattan wanted to kill everybody he could. He can't be killed and he has the superpowers to do it. I mean at that point it be game over. We're all screwed. Why even bother proclaiming piece? Dr. Manhattan's going to nuke us. Also the part where he leaves earth works less well in the movie because he's kind of forced to because everybody hates him.

[TheThan]

Arkham Asylum is probably the greatest example of bad security. Just look at the sort of characters Batman fights regularly:

The joker
The penguin
Two-face
The Riddler
Harley Quinn
The Mad Hatter


All of these characters (and a bunch more) are normal humans with no super powers. So they have no reason to so easily break out of a jail, yet they do constantly. It’s gotten silly really. With super powered individuals, I would expect them to be able to escape a mundane prison. Super powered people should be hard to detain, but seriously, mundane people (even if they are crazy) shouldn’t be.

[faceroll]

My explanation for most Harry Potter common sense failures at this point is that the magic gland in a wizard's brain takes all the blood meant for abstract reasoning. Occasionally you get a lucky mutation that results in somebody who can actually think and do magic, but it's hard for this to get recognized because nobody else really understands what is going on.

Or it was J. K. Rowling's commentary on the British government. I thought giving a child the ability to travel through time just so she can take a heavy course load was pretty ridiculous. That's got to be the most powerful spell-thingy in existence. Screw those stupid death curses; I want to go back and fix mistakes.


Arm your men/droids/???? with shotguns.

Yeah; projectile weapons that fire loads of projectiles. Jedis are only cool because of their plot armor. It gives them like +10 vs. everything. The only time they ever die is when the DM throws some CR +5 monster their way that's specially designed to kill them.


Even more of a nitpick: A shotgun blast from a yard away with the typical "killing people" load (00 buck shot) will be essentially one massive bullet. IE, the pellets stay stacked pretty well the way they were in the shell. At 15 yards, your typical buckshot load will spread out a bit but it's less like a "cloud of lead" and more like a "largish blob" of lead.

That's why you've got the barrel sawed down to 8 inches.


Thought out or not it's still not as good as the comic. A movie is just the wrong medium for the Watchmen story not to mention they cut the squid out which makes far more sense than that stupid generator thing in the film. Also, movie had plot holes the comic didn't. The movie also had to condense/cut out about half the stuff from the book making it harder for the film to illustrate its themes.

Please take the fanwank somewhere else.


Arkham Asylum is probably the greatest example of bad security. Just look at the sort of characters Batman fights regularly:

The joker
The penguin
Two-face
The Riddler
Harley Quinn
The Mad Hatter


All of these characters (and a bunch more) are normal humans with no super powers. So they have no reason to so easily break out of a jail, yet they do constantly. It’s gotten silly really. With super powered individuals, I would expect them to be able to escape a mundane prison. Super powered people should be hard to detain, but seriously, mundane people (even if they are crazy) shouldn’t be.

Comic books are full of bizarre DM fiat so the DM can pit DMPCs against each other in epic battles while yelling cliched soliloquies at each other. In general, the average comic book is no better than a mediocre game of D&D or whatever.

[Seppl]

Any museum/casino/bank in any burglar movie ever made. Dodgeable Laser barriers are just so stupid in a world where motion detectors are so cheap that they are used to turn on bathroom lights.

[comicshorse]

On the Arkham thing it suggests in many comics that the reason the villains keep breaking out is due to completely corrupt gaurds (this is Gotham after all) who let anybody free for the right price


And sorry but the ending of the Watchman film makes much more sense than the comic

[Pastafarian]

To avoid hijacking this thread any further, I've made my own: Watchmen Ending: Movie vs. Comic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142715)

[Moglorosh]

One pretty blatant security gaffe was in Minority Report.
...
Tom Cruise's wife suddenly marches into the jail, using his old eyes AGAIN to gain access and breaks him out. /facepalmIt's entirely possible within the context of the movie that she didn't break him out, and that it was all just a dream.

[chiasaur11]

It's entirely possible within the context of the movie that she didn't break him out, and that it was all just a dream.

If we're giving out "all a dream" without really, really good textual support?

It tends to be a bad idea. Otherwise, well, things get dumb.

[comicshorse]

I have a dislike of cheap thrillers with conveniently terrible security.
'Edge of Danger' by Jack Higgins springs immediately to mind where the cunning plan to assassinate the President involves waiting until he goes to his beachfront holiday home ( which has been mentioned in TIME magazine) then shooting him when he leaves because the most powerful man in the world is protected by two Secret Service agents and absolutely nothing else !

[Moglorosh]

If we're giving out "all a dream" without really, really good textual support?

It tends to be a bad idea. Otherwise, well, things get dumb.
It's suggested by the technician that his inmates are constantly dreaming.
Also, the ending breaks established rules of the universe, not to mention being implausible for other in-universe reasons. If the film itself seems to suggest the possibility, then we aren't just "giving it out".

[faerwain]

I'm going medieval on your thread now!:smallfurious:


No, seriously, I'm gonna: First Knight. Okay, being at war and all that aside, your Queen is charged with High Treason, so a you want the trial immediately. Granted. You want it to be public and the city gates open, so every commoner can see the law works. Accepted.

That is still no reason to blindfold all of your guards. No kidding, watch the finale: Despite the kingdom being in the middle of a war, the villain's troops approach the capital in broad daylight, pass the gates well armed while everybody else has to attend the public trial without weapons (yes, even the knights and guards - did I mention they are at war?) and nobody recognizes them before they seize the walls around the courtyard.

And all this while still wearing their own uniforms. Yes, the dark ones, which are highly different from the blue stuff everyone else in Camelot is wearing.

"My men are unarmed." Great job on the tactical thinking, Arthur.

[Wardog]

What about that shed containing all the materials and tools necessary to build a tank that they kept locking the A-Team in?

[Avilan the Grey]

My men are unarmed." Great job on the tactical thinking, Arthur.

King Arthur tend to be a moron, no matter adaptation and medium.

[readsaboutd&d]

For Arkham, we are talking about people who can probably drive any security gard mad or are very athletic and stuff. Also, they dont come out instantly, if you look at the timescale its very possible that several months have past since an individual prisoner's breakout. And its shown that they would all break out immediately if they could (see kinghtfall). And at least it keeps the terrible, monstrous maxie zeus or worse the calendar man out of the way.

[Lord of Rapture]

King Arthur tend to be a moron, no matter adaptation and medium.

Even if Arthur wasn't really a "king". :smallamused:

[Kris Strife]

And at least it keeps the terrible, monstrous maxie zeus or worse the calendar man out of the way.

Well, Calender Man isn't too bad most of the time. He only needs to be locked up on and around major holidays, the rest of the year he's just as sane as any other resident of Gotham.