Kishi wants us to hate Sasuke (Spoiler Alert)

[Drolyt]

Seriously, with all these kick the dog moments I think the only possible explanation is that Kishi realized Sasuke fell into essentially two camps in the fanbase: Scrappy Emo Teen (mostly in America) and Draco in Leather Pants (mostly fangirls). He wants Sasuke to be respected as a villain, so he's having Sasuke rape puppies at every turn, including trying to kill all the chicks that happen to be in love with him. Now if only he would start attacking the fangirls it would all be worthwhile...

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

This might be better in the anime and manga thread. After all, since you've given no context to what you're saying at all, only people who know about Naruto will have the faintest idea what you're talking about.

[Drolyt]

This might be better in the anime and manga thread. After all, since you've given no context to what you're saying at all, only people who know about Naruto will have the faintest idea what you're talking about.

Well, it was only meant for people who know about Naruto anyways, nobody else would care. At any rate it wasn't that important, so it's no big deal that nobody responded :frown:

[13_CBS]

Perhaps the author is listening to the fans who are saying that Sasuke is bit of a Canon Sue, and he's overreacting a bit?

[Drolyt]

Perhaps the author is listening to the fans who are saying that Sasuke is bit of a Canon Sue, and he's overreacting a bit?

Yeah, more or less. Just a few chapters ago he was telling Hawk/Snake/Whatever their called not to kill innocents, now he's backstabbing his allies and trying to kill Sakura and Kakashi. I mean, he was neutral at best while he was on his revenge streak but he still had some honor and dignity at that point, now he's just on a raving rampage.

[Jerthanis]

I guess I veered spoilerish, so I might just spoiler my whole post.


I think it's hilarious that even in this poopstorm of evil, eveyone still loves him. Naruto has been acting pathetic for the last two years or so, obsessing about his safety. Sakura just walked in on him standing over the prone form of a dying teammate, ready to deliver the coup de grace and still offered to join him. What's more, when she found out he wanted to kill everyone in Konoha, including all her friends and family, she accepted without hesitation.

Even Kakashi is like, "No matter how far Oorochimaru fell, Sarutobi still loved him... now I understand those feelings"

What did Sasuke ever do while he was their friend? He was a coward who insulted the others to feel better about himself. One time he saved Naruto by jumping in front of a barrage of needles. I can't think of anything else he ever did that was worthwhile.

Really, Kishimoto is succeeding better at making me hate Naruto, Sakura and Kakashi.

[Drolyt]

I guess I veered spoilerish, so I might just spoiler my whole post.


I think it's hilarious that even in this poopstorm of evil, eveyone still loves him. Naruto has been acting pathetic for the last two years or so, obsessing about his safety. Sakura just walked in on him standing over the prone form of a dying teammate, ready to deliver the coup de grace and still offered to join him. What's more, when she found out he wanted to kill everyone in Konoha, including all her friends and family, she accepted without hesitation.

Even Kakashi is like, "No matter how far Oorochimaru fell, Sarutobi still loved him... now I understand those feelings"

What did Sasuke ever do while he was their friend? He was a coward who insulted the others to feel better about himself. One time he saved Naruto by jumping in front of a barrage of needles. I can't think of anything else he ever did that was worthwhile.

Really, Kishimoto is succeeding better at making me hate Naruto, Sakura and Kakashi.

Spoilerific:
I think Sakura was just trying to trick Sasuke so she could kill him, not sure whether his attack there was because he saw through her or because he's just a ****, as for Kakashi him and Sasuke had a lot of off screen bonding, to the point that Kakashi was probably closer to Sasuke than Naruto before the Time Skip. As for Naruto, there is really no explanation for that, Naruto decided Sasuke was his bestest friend and decided to keep believing that even after Sasuke treated him like utter crap and started kicking dogs and raping puppies.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Sasuke's probably just gone nuts due to killing Itatchi. The guy spends his entire life wanting to kill his brother and then when he does it he starts doing random stuff (destroying konoha isn't very logical an action for him) and acting like a sadistic maniac.

In the latest chapter he lists Itatchi among the people he wants to avenge, despite the fact that he himself killed Itatchi because Itatchi wanted him to.

Itatchi also wanted to protect Konoha and was ready to murder his own family to do so. Sasuke wasnts to destroy Konoha and make that sacrifice pointless because he has no understanding of life goals apart from revenge.

Kishimoto probably isn't trolling his fans, he's just trying to make a story about the vicious circle of revenge and sadly isn't pulling it off very well.

[Drolyt]

Sasuke's probably just gone nuts due to killing Itatchi. The guy spends his entire life wanting to kill his brother and then when he does it he starts doing random stuff (destroying konoha isn't very logical an action for him) and acting like a sadistic maniac.

In the latest chapter he lists Itatchi among the people he wants to avenge, despite the fact that he himself killed Itatchi because Itatchi wanted him to.

Itatchi also wanted to protect Konoha and was ready to murder his own family to do so. Sasuke wasnts to destroy Konoha and make that sacrifice pointless because he has no understanding of life goals apart from revenge.

Kishimoto probably isn't trolling his fans, he's just trying to make a story about the vicious circle of revenge and sadly isn't pulling it off very well.

Yeah, I thought it was weird that he wanted to avenge the brother he killed, but your explanation makes some sense. He's simply gone insane. It actually makes his motivation more sensible than Pain's, or, while, most of the other villains in Naruto. Or more to the point I think he blames Konoha not only for the death of his clan, but for Itachi's death because in his mind it wouldn't have happened if it weren't for Konoha ordering Itachi to betray his clan. It's the same kind of "not my fault" reasoning used by lots of irresponsible teenagers: it's at least partially Konoha's fault, so obviously I'm completely exempt from responsibility for my actions.

[Jerthanis]

In the latest chapter he lists Itatchi among the people he wants to avenge, despite the fact that he himself killed Itatchi because Itatchi wanted him to.

Nuts is a good excuse, but I don't think it's quite exactly what's going on. Sasuke wants revenge against Konoha because Konoha is the one that put Itachi in the position of having to choose between his family and his nation. Really, the cycle of revenge and hate started when Konoha began being suspicious/discriminatory towards the Uchiha in the wake of the Kyuubi attack, as the Sharingan was needed to control the Tailed beasts. It was that suspicion and discrimination that led to the Uchiha planning a coup for real. So in a sense, Konoha is responsible for Itachi killing his family, which is the reason Sasuke killed him in return.

So Sasuke is tracing responsibility from himself to Itachi, to the Uchiha coup to Konoha's discrimination. Forgetting the fact that Mandara is probably the reason Konoha discriminated against the Uchiha in the first place.

In that way, I think Kishimoto's doing an okay, if not entirely stellar job of showing how revenge just leads to more revenge... and that responsibility needs to be taken for ones own actions.

Also, I'd almost believe Sakura was trying to trick him, but that when she confessed, Naruto didn't buy it. Now, my reasoning is this: Still images speaking through translation will sometimes fail to properly express nuance in people's speech. Naruto's reaction seemed to imply that she was being really insincere. My reaction to that scene was this: Declaring that she'd track down and kill Sasuke was a ruse to get Kiba's continued help. Her plan to incapacitate her allies and face him alone was her realizing what Naruto said was true, and her feelings still remained with Sasuke.

Now, I hope this isn't true, but I suspect it is.

[Prime32]

I should point out that Sasuke probably could have pulled off the old "your gun was loaded with blanks" trick on Sakura with his illusion powers... but yeah, I think he's lost it. Madara certainly isn't helping.

[Drolyt]

I should point out that Sasuke probably could have pulled off the old "your gun was loaded with blanks" trick on Sakura with his illusion powers... but yeah, I think he's lost it. Madara certainly isn't helping.

That's a good point. There's certainly no reason Sasuke would have to kill Sakura, she wasn't any threat to him. The deal with Sakura and Kakashi right now makes no sense. The only real explanation is that he's nuts.

[KnightDisciple]

Top right panel, bottom panel (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/483/14/). Top left panel (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/483/15/). I'd say those are pretty solid pieces of evidence for him being utterly crazy.

[Xallace]

Top right panel, bottom panel (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/483/14/). Top left panel (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/483/15/). I'd say those are pretty solid pieces of evidence for him being utterly crazy.

Yep. Heeee's lost it.

[Closet_Skeleton]

This is such an obvious spoiler thread that I don't see the point in the cyan boxes.

The other obvious possibility is that Sasuke doesn't plan on actually destroying Konoha, he's planning on Naruto killing him first. This mirrors Itatchi leaving Sasuke alive so that he could grow strong enough to kill him. Sasuke has no life now that he's fulfilled his goal of killing Itatchi and therefore all his actions from that point on are nothing but a suicide note.

Sasuke is just doing all this evil stuff because he knows that otherwise Naruto won't try to kill him. Sadly he hasn't realised that he can't cross the moral event horizon worse than Gaara or Pain already have (including killing Kakashi and a love interest) and the only way he could realistically get Naruto to kill him would be by erasing Naruto's memory of his existance and putting on a mook mask (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatMeasureIsAMook).

He's crazy not because he's been driven mad, but because he has no motivation to hold onto his sanity. Insanity doesn't explain his actions but his situation and actions give require him to throw away his sanity.

[Drolyt]

This is such an obvious spoiler thread that I don't see the point in the cyan boxes.

The other obvious possibility is that Sasuke doesn't plan on actually destroying Konoha, he's planning on Naruto killing him first. This mirrors Itatchi leaving Sasuke alive so that he could grow strong enough to kill him. Sasuke has no life now that he's fulfilled his goal of killing Itatchi and therefore all his actions from that point on are nothing but a suicide note.

Sasuke is just doing all this evil stuff because he knows that otherwise Naruto won't try to kill him. Sadly he hasn't realised that he can't cross the moral event horizon worse than Gaara or Pain already have (including killing Kakashi and a love interest) and the only way he could realistically get Naruto to kill him would be by erasing Naruto's memory of his existance and putting on a mook mask (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatMeasureIsAMook).

He's crazy not because he's been driven mad, but because he has no motivation to hold onto his sanity. Insanity doesn't explain his actions but his situation and actions give require him to throw away his sanity.

Well, my op was vague enough to not be immediately spotted as a spoiler and the relevant chapter was just released, so it's best to spoiler. Anyways your explanation might make some sense, but I thought once Sasuke killed Itachi he would focus on the elders, well he got Danzo but why is he killing his teammates/former teammates? He was never a Card Carrying Villain before even if he was a Marty Stu, this is really out of character for him.

[Silverraptor]

Can you instead put spoiler alert in the title of the thread so we can avoid all the boxes?:smallconfused:

In my opinion, Sasuke is just a spoiled brat still crying for his mommy and daddy.

[Drolyt]

Can you instead put spoiler alert in the title of the thread so we can avoid all the boxes?:smallconfused:

In my opinion, Sasuke is just a spoiled brat still crying for his mommy and daddy.

Put Spoiler Alert. Anyways I don't think that's right, Sasuke's trauma was legitimate and he had every reason to want vengeance. In fact he didn't really complain all that much, the problem is that Kishi went and showed us his every freaking thought on the matter and made sure to flash back to his childhood trauma at least once an arc so that eventually fans started to view him as a sort of emo kid even though a) You'd be mentally scarred too if your entire clan was wiped out by your brother and your brother made you relive your parent's death over and over again. b) Like I said, he didn't really complain that much, most of what we see is internal monologue and c) The kid freaking raised himself from like age 8. That's not what I would call spoiled. At any rate he was at least principled previously, ordering Hawk not to kill innocent bystanders, but now he's killing off his friends and giving scary sociopath looks to everyone. I'm not sure why his character derailed like that.

[Prime32]

At any rate he was at least principled previously, ordering Hawk not to kill innocent bystanders, but now he's killing off his friends and giving scary sociopath looks to everyone. I'm not sure why his character derailed like that.I'd say it starts with a "Ma" and ends with a "dara Uchiha".

[Fiery Diamond]

I'd say it starts with a "Ma" and ends with a "dara Uchiha".

Yeah, I'd say that's a good part of it.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Why this chapter? I decided Sasuke had cut out any tiny bits of anti-hero he had left the moment he stabbed Karin. Given he was on extremely rocky ground for buying into Madara in the first place, I mean isn't Madara the guy that helped Itachi? As in for some reason condoned the murder of the entire clan to the point of participation, for a reason yet to be explained I think. There's some serious fridge logic in there aside from the 'I'm going to kill my entire home village for the decision of a corrupt few' thing.

As long as Sasuke doesn't kill Kakashi though I will still rate the manga as less broken then Bleach though. Until these last few chapters things had been going pretty well I think. (Okay except for even more Sharingan popping up)

[Drolyt]

Why this chapter? I decided Sasuke had cut out any tiny bits of anti-hero he had left the moment he stabbed Karin. Given he was on extremely rocky ground for buying into Madara in the first place, I mean isn't Madara the guy that helped Itachi? As in for some reason condoned the murder of the entire clan to the point of participation, for a reason yet to be explained I think. There's some serious fridge logic in there aside from the 'I'm going to kill my entire home village for the decision of a corrupt few' thing.

As long as Sasuke doesn't kill Kakashi though I will still rate the manga as less broken then Bleach though. Until these last few chapters things had been going pretty well I think. (Okay except for even more Sharingan popping up)

Well, I just brought it up after this chapter is all. It started when he killed Karin, I seriously was like WTF? I liked the character development of Danzo, but I saw that fight as a battle between neutrals until Naruto killed Karin.

[Silverraptor]

Why this chapter? I decided Sasuke had cut out any tiny bits of anti-hero he had left the moment he stabbed Karin. Given he was on extremely rocky ground for buying into Madara in the first place, I mean isn't Madara the guy that helped Itachi? As in for some reason condoned the murder of the entire clan to the point of participation, for a reason yet to be explained I think. There's some serious fridge logic in there aside from the 'I'm going to kill my entire home village for the decision of a corrupt few' thing.

As long as Sasuke doesn't kill Kakashi though I will still rate the manga as less broken then Bleach though. Until these last few chapters things had been going pretty well I think. (Okay except for even more Sharingan popping up)

I think the reason was that a large portion of us were in disbelief that Sasuke would actually kill her in the end. I at first thought it was a kind of twisted calculated part to kill Danzo by going through her to get his heart. I mean, he said, "Hold still" as in he didn't want her to move and causing her more damage. I wasn't even sure if he got one of her vital points. Even the next chapter, I thought he was bluffing the pretenses about her not being use to him.

Of course, now that he shows his true colors its now like, "Meh".:smallsigh:

[Rogue 7]

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9595/ssake.jpg

Prime, I think you'll want to watch the language on that before a mod spots it.

And I've been completely unsurprised by any of these twists since...when Sasuke announced that he was going to take out the entire village. That was when he crossed the line from "idiotic, petulant child with a legitimate hang-up" to "irredeemable villain who should be terminated with extreme prejudice". So I'm glad that my assessment of the lad has lined up with Kishimoto's.

Basically, I can sum up my post with a response to the thread's title:

I already hated Sasuke.

[Prime32]

Prime, I think you'll want to watch the language on that before a mod spots it.Didn't make it. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3250.msg235734#msg235734)

*Removes* :smallannoyed:

[Soras Teva Gee]

I think the reason was that a large portion of us were in disbelief that Sasuke would actually kill her in the end. I at first thought it was a kind of twisted calculated part to kill Danzo by going through her to get his heart. I mean, he said, "Hold still" as in he didn't want her to move and causing her more damage. I wasn't even sure if he got one of her vital points. Even the next chapter, I thought he was bluffing the pretenses about her not being use to him.

Of course, now that he shows his true colors its now like, "Meh".:smallsigh:

I haven't liked Sasuke since he went to Orochimaru but after he killed the snake for a bit I was almost willing to give him some credit for forging his own very darkly neutral path. Then the post Itachi crap and Madara took it right back but at least he seemed to be playing his own tune a bit. Somehow though I just knew when Sasuke went after Karin it was over, after all the tricks he's pulled the only thing he can think of is to stab his own follower to get his enemy.... yeah the full on villian mode of the latest chapter just kinda bounces off now.

I'm just hoping to get a decent story out of the manga now and really hoping Sasuke doesn't become the big bad, dealing with Madara outranking the much better Pain is bad enough.

[Thrawn183]

I think a lot of this is just being done to convince the fans to stop supporting Sasuke. There are a lot of fans who seemed to think that Sasuke's going to Orochimaru wasn't really a big deal, and tried to explain away all the other things like Sasuke trying to kill Naruto.

Sure, Kishimoto might be trying to set us up with a surprise just like with Itachi, but I think this was a somewhat anvilicious attempt to get people to realize that they're really not supposed to be cheering on Sasuke.

I used to think of Sasuke as somewhere in the anti-hero/anti-villain category between the time skip and the Itachi fight. After that he's been moving steadily into straight up villain.

[tyckspoon]

As long as Sasuke doesn't kill Kakashi though I will still rate the manga as less broken then Bleach though. Until these last few chapters things had been going pretty well I think. (Okay except for even more Sharingan popping up)

Sasuke's gonna give Kakashi laser eye beams! By which I mean kill the hell out of him. With laser eye beams (incidentally, does anybody else remember when 'Sharingan Eye Lasers' was a joke?) It's part of that kind of annoying other theme of "The old generation makes way for the new", because everybody knows old people can't be useful or anything.. he'll get to Tsunade sooner or later too.

[Mystic Muse]

Yeah, I agree. I already hated Sasuke. I thought he was insane when he decided he would destroy Konoha for revenge personally.

[Drolyt]

To the people who said they already hated Sasuke: I thought that when he said he was going to destroy Konoha he was lying to Madara. He told Hawk they were only targeting Danzo and the elders, who more or less deserved what was coming.

[Closet_Skeleton]

To the people who said they already hated Sasuke: I thought that when he said he was going to destroy Konoha he was lying to Madara. He told Hawk they were only targeting Danzo and the elders, who more or less deserved what was coming.

Well, we've seen how much he trusts his companions now.

[mikej]

I really hate Sasuke. At first he was kinda of a cool anti-hero character than all the chapters of focus on him. Kishi should just rename the damn manga "Sasuke" not Naruto. On the same note Naruto needs to get better. It's fairly obvious hinted that the original T7 were surposed to surpass the Sannin.
It's just Jaraiya willed himself back to life vs Pein while Naruto just hyperventiled.
It least it's not anywhere near Bleach stupid. I'm still bent over Halibel's lack of backstory and how they went about with Barragan.

[Drolyt]

I really hate Sasuke. At first he was kinda of a cool anti-hero character than all the chapters of focus on him. Kishi should just rename the damn manga "Sasuke" not Naruto. On the same note Naruto needs to get better. It's fairly obvious hinted that the original T7 were surposed to surpass the Sannin.
It's just Jaraiya willed himself back to life vs Pein while Naruto just hyperventiled.
It least it's not anywhere near Bleach stupid. I'm still bent over Halibel's lack of backstory and how they went about with Barragan.

About Bleach:
Yeah the top three Arrancar kinda got shafted. It pretty much sucked, especially after all that build up they did for them. I liked Stark better than those two though.

[Jerthanis]

I think I started really hating Sasuke because of his reasons for going to Oorochimaru. It never came off to me that Sasuke wanted power at any cost/deal with the devil to take out a greater threat. It always seemed to me that he was pissed that Naruto was better than he was at that point, and he wanted to be the best out of Team 7.

I just got the overriding impression that he joined Team Evil because he wanted to be the best more than because of Itachi.

[Indon]

In-universe, I think we can agree that there are a lot of factors contributing to Sasuke's crazy. We may not all agree if those factors justify the crazy, but they're undeniably there. There's also the whole 'ninjas love playing mind games' factor (such as Sakura's semi-intent to use her request to join Sasuke to close in and attack him - in fact, Sasuke's attack may be a response to him sensing that).

From a literary perspective, I think the author is not trying to make Sasuke into a 100% super-evil villain necessarily. Instead, I think the author is trying to make Naruto's upcoming challenge one worthy of him as a character.

Basically at this point Naruto is Ninja Jesus, out to singlehandedly try to stop the cycle of killing and revenge across the ninja world. He's already forgiven the man who killed his mentor and his next target is bringing Sasuke back - and there's little doubt, considering the last hundred chapters or so of Naruto's characterization, that it is his resolve to bring Sasuke back into the fold despite him being a supervillain that is the critical, building conflict in the manga at the moment.

So if Sasuke remains villain-lite, Naruto's attempt at forgiveness, at stopping the cycle, seems fairly trival, basically limited to calming Sasuke down. But if Sasuke through his own actions works to escalate things, that makes it harder for Naruto to impose what other ninjas would feel to be his incredibly nieve beliefs upon them.

[Silverraptor]

For the upcoming fight against Kakashi, I just kinda hope that Sasuke loses the light in his eyes for good. He's so close now, and if Kakashi needs a break, it's that.

Also, Kakashi is now going to be the next Hokage. Don't forget that. He needs to still live!

[Indon]

Also, Kakashi is now going to be the next Hokage. Don't forget that. He needs to still live!

Unless he's an obstacle to Naruto's Hokagehood.

[Drolyt]

I have very little doubt that Kakashi will get his ass handed to him if he fights Sasuke's true power, although there is the whole thing with his eyes fading. If he would just use Itachi's eyes Sasuke would become more powerful than pretty much any other character.

[Silverraptor]

I have very little doubt that Kakashi will get his ass handed to him if he fights Sasuke's true power, although there is the whole thing with his eyes fading. If he would just use Itachi's eyes Sasuke would become more powerful than pretty much any other character.

Yes. But they left Itachi's eyes behind. Besides, Itachi's eyes were almost blind themselves. How do 2 almost completely blind eyes let some one see?:smallconfused:

[tyckspoon]

Yes. But they left Itachi's eyes behind. Besides, Itachi's eyes were almost blind themselves. How do 2 almost completely blind eyes let some one see?:smallconfused:

Magic! No, seriously. According to Itachi (or possibly Madara, there was a string of like six-seven Sharingan exposition chapters between the two of them) if you swap your own failing eye for somebody else's equally powerful failing eye it becomes healthy again and stops going blind. Theoretically this could be arranged as an equal swap and done surgically to the benefit of both characters, but there hasn't been a situation where there were two Mangekyou Sharingan bearers who would agree to that instead of attempting to kill each other.

[Drolyt]

Magic! No, seriously. According to Itachi (or possibly Madara, there was a string of like six-seven Sharingan exposition chapters between the two of them) if you swap your own failing eye for somebody else's equally powerful failing eye it becomes healthy again and stops going blind. Theoretically this could be arranged as an equal swap and done surgically to the benefit of both characters, but there hasn't been a situation where there were two Mangekyou Sharingan bearers who would agree to that instead of attempting to kill each other.

The way I read it the eyes like magically merged or something. It didn't make a whole lot of sense no matter how you look at it, but the definite thing is that somehow Itachi's dying eyes could cure Sasuke's dying eyes. It does make a little sense, maybe each sharingan has a flaw but when you combine two they cover each other's flaws?

[Prime32]

The way I read it the eyes like magically merged or something. It didn't make a whole lot of sense no matter how you look at it, but the definite thing is that somehow Itachi's dying eyes could cure Sasuke's dying eyes. It does make a little sense, maybe each sharingan has a flaw but when you combine two they cover each other's flaws?Well, when Madara takes his brother's eyes in a flashback, his new eyes look like a cross between his brother's and his old ones.

[Drolyt]

Well, when Madara takes his brother's eyes in a flashback, his new eyes look like a cross between his brother's and his old ones.

Right, that's what made me think they like fused or something.

[Silverraptor]

Right, that's what made me think they like fused or something.

Ya, I understand that. Remember back during the grim reaper jutsu the 3rd used? Well, there's something similar appearing over Itachi that has 4 eye sockets and 2 are missing. Maybe that's the key to the Mangekyou Sharingans. That the thing needs to be completed in order for you to see.

[Prime32]

Ya, I understand that. Remember back during the grim reaper jutsu the 3rd used? Well, there's something similar appearing over Itachi that has 4 eye sockets and 2 are missing. Maybe that's the key to the Mangekyou Sharingans. That the thing needs to be completed in order for you to see.What are you talking about? Raideen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfDcbXP-Bqo) Susanoo?

[Soras Teva Gee]

I thought Sasuke did take Itachi's eyes more or less and that was the whole point of the magic head tap at the end of the fight and how Sasuke has Susanoo plus his freaky star eye pattern. I think any current blindness is a result of whatever Sasuke is doing differently, or just plain inevitable anyways.


Sasuke's gonna give Kakashi laser eye beams! By which I mean kill the hell out of him. With laser eye beams (incidentally, does anybody else remember when 'Sharingan Eye Lasers' was a joke?) It's part of that kind of annoying other theme of "The old generation makes way for the new", because everybody knows old people can't be useful or anything.. he'll get to Tsunade sooner or later too.

Oh I can accept Kakashi loosing. For all his supposed brilliance Kakashi hasn't won terribly much without putting himself in the hospital. Course Sasuke has already been through a rough fight. Though I somehow can't put odds in Kakashi's favor, but he can still survive the fight between the presence of Sakura and Naruto on the way.

(Besides Kakashi isn't quite in the old generation to me so he doesn't disrupt the theme)

[Drolyt]

I thought Sasuke did take Itachi's eyes more or less and that was the whole point of the magic head tap at the end of the fight and how Sasuke has Susanoo plus his freaky star eye pattern. I think any current blindness is a result of whatever Sasuke is doing differently, or just plain inevitable anyways.



Oh I can accept Kakashi loosing. For all his supposed brilliance Kakashi hasn't won terribly much without putting himself in the hospital. Course Sasuke has already been through a rough fight. Though I somehow can't put odds in Kakashi's favor, but he can still survive the fight between the presence of Sakura and Naruto on the way.

(Besides Kakashi isn't quite in the old generation to me so he doesn't disrupt the theme)

I never liked that theme anyways, so if some old guys just pop out of no where and start beating the living **** out of Sasuke and Naruto I'd be more or less happy. Anyways Itachi bestowed some of his power on Sasuke and meant for Sasuke to do the eye mergy thing, but since Sasuke refused he still doesn't have the Eternal Mangekyo, which is what he would need to keep his eyes from deteriorating. Actually with the Eternal Mangekyo I'm pretty sure he'd be stronger than Sage Mode Naruto.

[Thrawn183]

Not to mention that Madara already kind of blew that theme to pieces as it is.

[Drolyt]

Not to mention that Madara already kind of blew that theme to pieces as it is.

Him and the First Hokage. Seriously, the theme seems to be "The younger generation are designated heroes, but only people old enough to be your grandfather with virtual immortality are allowed to be villains".

[Moonshadow]

What are you talking about? Raideen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfDcbXP-Bqo) Susanoo?

I love Raideen as a mecha, but I HATE it's theme.

Anyways, on topic.

Doesn't Sasuke have Amaterasu/Tsukuyomi/Susano-o because Itachi basically implanted them into his eyes before he kicked the bucket? Because the deal with the Mangekyo is that you have to kill the one you love the most to unlock them or something.

But if Itachi has implanted knowledge of those jutsu into Sasuke, couldn't he have used a genjutsu of some kind to severely unhinge Sasuke? Remember that Karin has been noticing some sort of dark aura to Sasuke's chakras lately.

Then again, it could have been Madara too, but Itachi DID make it so that if Sasuke saw Madara, Tsukuyomi would go off automatically.

Also, isn't Susano-o basically a... armor shell MADE of the fires of Tsukuyomi? In that case, you wouldn't have to bother killing whatsherface, she's dead anyways.

[Drolyt]

I love Raideen as a mecha, but I HATE it's theme.

Anyways, on topic.

Doesn't Sasuke have Amaterasu/Tsukuyomi/Susano-o because Itachi basically implanted them into his eyes before he kicked the bucket? Because the deal with the Mangekyo is that you have to kill the one you love the most to unlock them or something.

But if Itachi has implanted knowledge of those jutsu into Sasuke, couldn't he have used a genjutsu of some kind to severely unhinge Sasuke? Remember that Karin has been noticing some sort of dark aura to Sasuke's chakras lately.

Then again, it could have been Madara too, but Itachi DID make it so that if Sasuke saw Madara, Tsukuyomi would go off automatically.

Also, isn't Susano-o basically a... armor shell MADE of the fires of Tsukuyomi? In that case, you wouldn't have to bother killing whatsherface, she's dead anyways.

I'm not sure how the hell it's supposed to work. Madara and his brother both had Mangekyo powers already, so Madara took his eyes to prevent the blindness thus gaining the "Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan". It's not clear whether that has anything to do with his apparent immortality. Itachi also had Mangekyo and wanted Sasuke's eyes to avoid the blindness. Sasuke however didn't have Mangekyo powers until Itachi gave them to him, but this doesn't seem to have involved him gaining Itachi's eyes. If it did he shouldn't be going blind.

[Weiser_Cain]

Wait... we all didn't already hate Sasuke from day one?

[Mystic Muse]

Wait... we all didn't already hate Sasuke from day one?

I didn't./sarcasm

[Innis Cabal]

Itachi also had Mangekyo and wanted Sasuke's eyes to avoid the blindness. Sasuke however didn't have Mangekyo powers until Itachi gave them to him, but this doesn't seem to have involved him gaining Itachi's eyes. If it did he shouldn't be going blind.

1. He didn't want Sauske's eyes. Or he'd have them.

2. We don't know if Sauske is going blind.

[The Unborne]

2. We don't know if Sauske is going blind.

There was a hint to it when he toppled the glass over: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/417/09/

Might be due to stress, but one can guess that it's due to Mangekyou usage.

[Drolyt]

1. He didn't want Sauske's eyes. Or he'd have them.

2. We don't know if Sauske is going blind.

1. He pretended to want Sasuke's eyes in some kind of real over the top Xanatos Roulette. But yes he didn't actually want Sasuke's eyes, he wanted to give his eyes to Sasuke.
2. Yes we do.

[ZeroNumerous]

Oh I can accept Kakashi loosing. For all his supposed brilliance Kakashi hasn't won terribly much without putting himself in the hospital.

He wooped ole Zabuza pretty good two out of three times. He also more-or-less effortlessly defeats the snow ninja leader(ha!) in the first Naruto movie.

Kakashi's main problem is plot. His one truly lethal skill is reliant on his Plotingan and is an instant-kill technique(thus making it's probability of success equal to or less than 0%). Plot-wise he can't win without being seriously thrashed, rendered incapacitated, and then allowed to comment on the next ninja of the week that comes along to get beatdown then befriended by Naruto.

So Kakashi is basically doomed to failure. I also seriously doubt his death, as Naruto has no chance of becoming Hokage since his set up as Crystal Dragon Jesus requires him to either end in Heroic Sacrifice/Wander The World moment. My reasoning for this stems from primarily two reasons: 1) Kishimoto(aside from obviously being insane/drunk with money/power) needs to prove Sasuke is in Naruto's league. He does this by effortlessly/easily/eventually crushing Kakashi even with a handicap. 2) Old Mentor Guy never wins.

Aside from that I have a side theory: Namely, no character seen so far who has announced his/her dream has successfully completed his/her dream. Sakura failed to nab Sasuke. Kakashi failed to protect Rin. Obito failed to... Well, not be a screw up. Konohamaru failed to be the next Hokage. The Third failed to convince Orochimaru not to be bat****. Even everyone's favorite Mary Sue failed to kill Itachi(Itachi's disease killed him after Itachi won the duel).

On a side note, Hinata also failed to win Naruto's heart, as he's obviously still crushing super hard on Sasuke. :smalltongue:

Dreams in Narutoland don't succeed. Not just the heroes' dreams either as Pain, Haku, Zabuza, Orochimaru, Itachi and every other non-Deidara villain(he wanted to make beautiful art and I'd say he succeeded) has failed.

For whatever strange reason: No one ever succeeds on a dream they announce. Either Naruto will follow this trend or will break the trend.

[Drolyt]

He wooped ole Zabuza pretty good two out of three times. He also more-or-less effortlessly defeats the snow ninja leader(ha!) in the first Naruto movie.

Kakashi's main problem is plot. His one truly lethal skill is reliant on his Plotingan and is an instant-kill technique(thus making it's probability of success equal to or less than 0%). Plot-wise he can't win without being seriously thrashed, rendered incapacitated, and then allowed to comment on the next ninja of the week that comes along to get beatdown then befriended by Naruto.

So Kakashi is basically doomed to failure. I also seriously doubt his death, as Naruto has no chance of becoming Hokage since his set up as Crystal Dragon Jesus requires him to either end in Heroic Sacrifice/Wander The World moment. My reasoning for this stems from primarily two reasons: 1) Kishimoto(aside from obviously being insane/drunk with money/power) needs to prove Sasuke is in Naruto's league. He does this by effortlessly/easily/eventually crushing Kakashi even with a handicap. 2) Old Mentor Guy never wins.

Aside from that I have a side theory: Namely, no character seen so far who has announced his/her dream has successfully completed his/her dream. Sakura failed to nab Sasuke. Kakashi failed to protect Rin. Obito failed to... Well, not be a screw up. Konohamaru failed to be the next Hokage. The Third failed to convince Orochimaru not to be bat****. Even everyone's favorite Mary Sue failed to kill Itachi(Itachi's disease killed him after Itachi won the duel).

On a side note, Hinata also failed to win Naruto's heart, as he's obviously still crushing super hard on Sasuke. :smalltongue:

Dreams in Narutoland don't succeed. Not just the heroes' dreams either as Pain, Haku, Zabuza, Orochimaru, Itachi and every other non-Deidara villain(he wanted to make beautiful art and I'd say he succeeded) has failed.

For whatever strange reason: No one ever succeeds on a dream they announce. Either Naruto will follow this trend or will break the trend.

This is a Shonen. Of course Naruto will break the trend, that's the whole point of the ****ing series. If he doesn't break that trend I'll be pissed.