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Kobold-Bard
2010-02-18, 01:50 PM
Exactly what it says on the tin. What is your favourite incarnation of Star Trek and why? Who's your favourite character, what's your favourite ever episode/film?

Let the nerdiness flow :smallcool:

Personally I'm a fan of DS9, just too many characters to like.

Lord of Syntax
2010-02-18, 01:56 PM
TNG all the way, because I <3 Picard.

My favorite episode is Author, Author from Voyager

Arcane_Secrets
2010-02-18, 02:02 PM
The Next Generation, because I thought it had the best characters and nemeses (the Borg, Lore, Q). My favorite character is Data, and I'd say my favorite episodes are Best of Both Worlds.

Nerd-o-rama
2010-02-18, 02:05 PM
TNG, by a fair margin, although I love the cheese factor of the original series to death.

Wrath of Khan and First Contact are my favorite movies, followed very closely by New Trek.

Icewalker
2010-02-18, 02:19 PM
Data. Spock. Picard. Worf. Mostly TNG. Need to watch more TOS, and definitely more of the movies.

Arcane_Secrets
2010-02-18, 02:25 PM
Data. Spock. Picard. Worf. Mostly TNG. Need to watch more TOS, and definitely more of the movies.

For the movies, the even ones good, odd ones...not so good rule mostly applies. :) (I'd have to say that Star Trek III is an exception).

Joran
2010-02-18, 02:26 PM
Favorite Incarnation of Star Trek: DS9: It broke all the rules of Star Trek (character flaws, plot arcs, less emphasis on exploration) and was the better for it. By staying in one place rather than gallivanting around the galaxy, DS9 created the most memorable supporting characters in Star Trek history.

Favorite Character: Plain, Simple Garak. He contains so many multitudes, swaying from gleefully immoral secret agent to passionate patriot to a good friend.

Favorite Episode: The Inner Light. That flute song still kills me every time.

Favorite Movie: Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. Endlessly rewatchable, humor still holds up.


For the movies, the even ones good, odd ones...not so good rule mostly applies. :) (I'd have to say that Star Trek III is an exception).

Nemesis (X) broke the rule, which led to the reboot (XI) being entertaining. I'm not sure what kind of universe I live in now.

Arcane_Secrets
2010-02-18, 02:35 PM
Nemesis (X) broke the rule, which led to the reboot (XI) being entertaining. I'm not sure what kind of universe I live in now.

That's a good point, although I'd still say it wasn't as bad as I or V.

Kobold-Bard
2010-02-18, 02:43 PM
Can't help but notice that no-one's mentioned Voyager yet :smallwink:

Lord Seth
2010-02-18, 02:55 PM
Exactly what it says on the tin. What is your favourite incarnation of Star Trek and why? Who's your favourite character, what's your favourite ever episode/film?

Let the nerdiness flow :smallcool:

Personally I'm a fan of DS9, just too many characters to like.It's a tough call for all of them, but...

Favorite incarnation: Either TNG or DS9.
Favorite character: Spock
Favorite episode: There are too many to pick just one, so here goes a list of the best: "Mirror, Mirror", "The City on the Edge of Forever", "Balance of Terror", "The Best of Both Worlds", "Tapestry", "In the Pale Moonlight", "Duet", "Trials and Tribble-Ations", and "Past Tense"
Favorite film: Wrath of Khan

Joran
2010-02-18, 02:56 PM
Can't help but notice that no-one's mentioned Voyager yet :smallwink:

Voyager was a great concept, but required much better execution. Voyager could have been Battlestar Galactica; one ship, all alone, having to fend for itself while still trying to adhere to Federation principles. Instead, it endlessly hit the reset button, which removed a lot of the drama and tough choices.

I enjoyed the Doctor a great deal. Poor Harry Kim never got a promotion though =P

Dragor
2010-02-18, 03:01 PM
Favourite series: DS9. Even though it had its horrible moments (Profit and Lace, anyone?) on the whole it was a lot more darker and 'realistic' view of the Star Trek world, revealing that the Federation couldn't just save kittens from trees and thus be the best, and being ruthlessly efficient at times. Sisko was a brilliant captain, who was passionate and endlessly entertaining with his dry wit. He's the captain out of all the captains who I'd most want as my neighbour: entertaining and humorous, but when needed a fiery friend.

Favourite character: Gul Dukat takes this for me. My favourite episode is probably Waltz, where Dukat elevated to the status of a great villain. Although he's lost everything, and even though it's clear that he has done wrong, he still supports his own actions and deems that everything he's done is correct. I didn't like the madness, which I thought was a bit cheesy, but fundamentally he was simply a great villain.

I don't really have a favourite movie (hell, the fact that a movie about time-travelling whales is the best movie says a lot about the quality of the Star Trek films) but I most enjoyed the recent re-imagining. (Heresy! Burn the witch!)

FoE
2010-02-18, 03:32 PM
Voyager was a great concept, but required much better execution.

My friends and I cite Farscape as an example of how Voyager should have been. Perhaps with less puppets and general weirdness, but a lot more desperation.

I mean, they were stranded thousands of light years from home, half of the Voyager crew was dead, they had to rely on Maquis terrorists to replenish their ranks ... There should have been a lot more tension and animosity in that series. And Neelix shouldn't have become such a useless twit.

Nonetheless, my two favourite Star Trek episodes comes from Voyager: Tuvix and Death Wish. Tuvix has a pretty emotionally powerful ending, and Death Wish has that really awesome scene in the Q Continuum. "Oh please, we've all been the scarecrow!"

As for my favourite incarnation ... I would say the new movie is my favourite so far. And I would like to see more of this new "Trek through the Stars."

Favourite villain? The Borg Queen from First Contact. Hands down. Creepy yet strangely seductive, and she makes an appealing case for evil.

Favourite character? Data. I enjoyed all the Data episodes, except that one where he tries to start a relationship with that chick.


I most enjoyed the recent re-imagining. (Heresy! Burn the witch!)

We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately.

Athaniar
2010-02-18, 04:01 PM
Series
Deep Space Nine is my favorite, and probably my favorite TV series ever. I do prefer series with plot over "random encounter" ones like most of the others. The third and fourth seasons of Enterprise come in second.

Character
Garak. Do I really have to explain?

Captain
Picard. Sir Stewart is such a great actor.

Villain
Tough choice. Either Dukat, Khan, or the Borg Queen. Or Weyoun(s).

Episode
Waltz, most likely, for reasons already mentioned.

Movie
I'll have to say Wrath of Khan here.

Novel
Not that I've read many, but the two Rise and Fall of Khan Noonien Singh were nice, and also hardcore Continuity Porn.

Alien Species
Species 8472/"Undines". They make me want to buy Star Trek Online just to see more of them. Among the more humanoid species, I prefer the ever scheming Romulans.

Animal
Spot!

Ichneumon
2010-02-18, 04:09 PM
Series: I liked the randomness of the Original series, "Monster of the Week" and all. However, TNG is better as a series and from a story perspective.

Character: Data

Captain: Picard.

Race: Romulan

Kobold-Bard
2010-02-18, 04:11 PM
...Race: Romulan

They never really did anything for me.

snoopy13a
2010-02-18, 04:15 PM
I like Star Trek IV the best.

It doesn't take itself too seriously and it is a little funny.

As for character, I'll say McCoy.

Telonius
2010-02-18, 04:18 PM
Favorite series: very close between DS9 and TNG. DS9 wins out, very narrowly, due to Quark and Garak.

Favorite Protagonist: Spock

Favorite Antagonist: Q

Favorite Captain: Picard

Most Annoying Character: Neelix.
(Honorable mention: Wesley, O'Brien, Barclay)

Favorite Film: Star Trek VI

Also, Spot is awesome.

Starscream
2010-02-18, 04:30 PM
TNG because I loved the characters. Picard, Worf, Data, Riker, LaForge. An all around awesome cast.

Arcane_Secrets
2010-02-18, 04:40 PM
My friends and I cite Farscape as an example of how Voyager should have been. Perhaps with less puppets and general weirdness, but a lot more desperation.

The weirdness was part of what I liked about Farscape...especially the episodes where it was nearly universal like Crackers Don't Matter.

For that matter, the stranger episodes of TNG are some of my favorites too. Particularly the one where Data's dream sequence involving cellular peptide cake and having a phone in his torso turned out to be the key to saving the ship.



I mean, they were stranded thousands of light years from home, half of the Voyager crew was dead, they had to rely on Maquis terrorists to replenish their ranks ... There should have been a lot more tension and animosity in that series. And Neelix shouldn't have become such a useless twit.

Neelix was anything else?

FoE
2010-02-18, 04:44 PM
Neelix was anything else?

Neelix was halfway competent in the series premiere; he did manage to fool Janeway into helping him. He and Tom bemoaned their decaying badassery in a later episode when they were tricked by a group of con artists.

Kobold-Bard
2010-02-18, 04:49 PM
Neelix was halfway competent in the series premiere; he did manage to fool Janeway into helping him. He and Tom bemoaned their decaying badassery in a later episode when they were tricked by a group of con artists.

He was also a stud for no reason that I can understand. He managed to satisfy that Klingon that nearly killed Harry Kim with her feminine wiles.

FoE
2010-02-18, 04:56 PM
He was also a stud for no reason that I can understand. He managed to satisfy that Klingon that nearly killed Harry Kim with her feminine wiles.

He had been a Klingon ... or at least thought he was one, thanks to the Hirojin putting him through that simulation. It gave him enough understanding of their culture to seduce a Klingon female.

Strawberries
2010-02-18, 04:59 PM
I have very fond memories of the original series. I watched it all in reruns with my grandfather when I was a little girl (four or five years old). To this day, it makes me think of him :smallsmile:. When I was little, my favourite character was Spock. Today I'd say McCoy.

Of the new series, Deep Space Nine. I enjoy the darker and more "realistic" setting, and I find some of the characters extremely interesting, expecially the more "ambiguous" ones (Garak comes to mind).


Can't help but notice that no-one's mentioned Voyager yet :smallwink:

What do you mean? There has never been a Star Trek series by that name [/denial] :smalltongue:

Starfols
2010-02-18, 05:22 PM
Series: Enterprise, definitely

Character: I can't say. :smallbiggrin: Phlox, Reed, Tucker, Sato, Data, LaForge, Bones or Sulu

Captain: I like Picard the most. Archer is a close second.

Antagonist: Q. Who else?

Species: does the ISC count?

Animal:Porthos!

Jerthanis
2010-02-18, 05:28 PM
Every story is driven by its characters, their hopes, dreams, flaws and so on.

Deep Space 9 had almost a dozen phenomenal characters. Every other Star Trek had a few entertaining characters, a few bad characters, and one or two truly memorable characters.

I can tell you my favorite character from every Star Trek that isn't DS9 off the top of my head, no contest: Spock, Picard, Paris, and Archer. Often, these characters aren't my 'favorite' so much as my 'least disliked'.

On DS9, more than half the cast is tied for my #1 favorite spot. Sisko, Odo, Garak, Dax, Jake, Quark... and I still find everyone else interesting or entertaining.

DS9 also had the most coherent storyline with the most interesting setting elements. From religion to politics to economics, DS9 had it all.

Dienekes
2010-02-18, 05:41 PM
TOS and TNG for me. I never got into DS9, felt too much like a soap opera in space to me for some reason.

khoregate
2010-02-18, 05:45 PM
Series: Enterprise, definitely

Species: does the ISC count?

Animal:Porthos!


i also liked playing their ships in SFB started playing that in england now i live about 40 miles from Amarillo design bureau and found out recently i may actualy be related to stephen V Cole strange how things happen

Favourite series... : will have to be TNG

favourite Captain Pickard

favourite Character Spock

Favourite villian The Borg queen

favourite Animal SPOT !!

Most hated character Wesley Crusher anyone else remember the alt.wesley.crusher.die.die.die newgroups ?

Lord Seth
2010-02-18, 07:47 PM
Can't help but notice that no-one's mentioned Voyager yet :smallwink:Well the thing is, Voyager was almost completely forgettable. It was average pretty much the whole way through, and can't even be memorable for being bad. The first two seasons of Enterprise might have been awful (in the words of Chuck Sonnenberg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXxjfJpcgwQ), "Sometimes I think Enterprise exists just to make Voyager look good") but at least they were memorable for being so bad, and the show started to turn itself around starting in its third season. Voyager was, from start to finish, an utterly forgettable show.

The Glyphstone
2010-02-18, 07:55 PM
Series: TNG, it was the bread and butter of my Star Trek experience. TOS I found afterwards.

Character: Worf. Poor guy could never catch a break. Runner-up, Voyager's Doctor.

Captain: Picard. That's SIR Patrick Stewart, remember.

Villain: The Borg Queen. Q takes second place as best antagonist, but not actual villain.

Episode: Q-Pid, the one where the crew ends up in a Robin Hood scenario.

Movie: Wrath of KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN. Honorable mention to Episode IV: Search For The Nuclear Wessels.

Animal: Spot.

Starfols
2010-02-18, 08:34 PM
Well the thing is, Voyager was almost completely forgettable. It was average pretty much the whole way through, and can't even be memorable for being bad. The first two seasons of Enterprise might have been awful (in the words of Chuck Sonnenberg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXxjfJpcgwQ), "Sometimes I think Enterprise exists just to make Voyager look good") but at least they were memorable for being so bad, and the show started to turn itself around starting in its third season. Voyager was, from start to finish, an utterly forgettable show.

Heey, Enterprise wasn't -- nevermind, I'm not getting into that argument again..yet :smalltongue:

The Big Dice
2010-02-18, 11:35 PM
Well the thing is, Voyager was almost completely forgettable. It was average pretty much the whole way through, and can't even be memorable for being bad. The first two seasons of Enterprise might have been awful (in the words of Chuck Sonnenberg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXxjfJpcgwQ), "Sometimes I think Enterprise exists just to make Voyager look good") but at least they were memorable for being so bad, and the show started to turn itself around starting in its third season. Voyager was, from start to finish, an utterly forgettable show.

Up until Seven of Nine joined the show, I'd agree. However, Year of Hell pt 1 and 2, plus Scorpion pt 1 and 2 are worthy additions to Trek. Though I have to say, Star Trek is just lame for the most part, despite me really liking the show.

TOS: We come in peace, shoot to kill! Ad libs round the captain's chair to end.

TNG: Let's have a meeting and then not shoot to kill at all!

DS9: Boldly going ... um, in Babylon 5's wake?

Voyager: Boldly going where several other shows have been before...

Enterprise: Boldly going where ... waitaminute!

To be fair, Star Trek did set the bar for science fiction on tv pretty high. But that was when there was no competition. Babylon 5 showed that you didn't have to hit the reset button every week. Farscape showed that you could go to some extremely surreal and disturbing places. Stargate and spinoffs showed that action and story, along with extended plotlines don't have to be mutually exclusive. And BSG showed that you don't have to assume your audience is dumb and only really paying attention to the token bimbo in the cast.

Lord Seth
2010-02-19, 12:12 AM
Up until Seven of Nine joined the show, I'd agree. However, Year of Hell pt 1 and 2, plus Scorpion pt 1 and 2 are worthy additions to Trek.Voyager did have a few good episodes. Unfortunately, Voyager at its best is nothing close to TOS/TNG/DS9 at their best. Was Scorpion pretty good? Sure. But compare it to, say, The Best of Both Worlds and it doesn't match up. I will agree that Voyager improved afterward Seven of Nine joined up but all that did was cause there to be the occasional bump in the mediocrity.


Though I have to say, Star Trek is just lame for the most part, despite me really liking the show.

TOS: We come in peace, shoot to kill! Ad libs round the captain's chair to end.

TNG: Let's have a meeting and then not shoot to kill at all!

DS9: Boldly going ... um, in Babylon 5's wake?

Voyager: Boldly going where several other shows have been before...

Enterprise: Boldly going where ... waitaminute!I'm not entirely certain what you're even trying to say with TOS/TNG, though "Boldly going where several other shows have been before" is quite possibly the best description of Voyager I've ever heard. However, DS9 really was quite different from Babylon 5. Yeah, I know, there's a good chance the executives ripped off some of the concepts but the series really diverged by quite a bit as they went along. It's a tough call as to which one I preferred more. DS9 at its best is better than Babylon 5 at its best (I can't think of any Babylon 5 episodes that reached the brilliance of "In The Pale Moonlight" or "Duet"), but DS9 at its worst is also worse than Babylon 5 at its worst (what were they thinking with "Profit and Lace"?) Then again, I have trouble figuring out whether I like TNG or DS9 more, so...

Roukon
2010-02-19, 01:19 AM
My favorite will probably always be TNG. DS9 is a close second for my favorite, just for some of the great characters, but I started on TNG, so it will always be best for me.

As for character, probably Data, though Doctor Bashir would be a close second. When they teamed up in Birthright was great. I really liked how they were able to add his genetic engineering without making it overt every episode. I'm really excited to be able to meet Brent Spiner in March, along with Levar Burton.

Favorite villian has to be Q. As John de Lancie says of Q (by way of Lord Byron), "he was mad, bad and dangerous to know". The audio recording of him and Spock debating is hilarious and one of my favorite things that I have purchased.

Later Days,
Roukon

The Glyphstone
2010-02-19, 01:25 AM
Not sure why I hadn't considered Q as a villain. Probably because he was so funny even while he jerked everyone around.

Lord Seth
2010-02-19, 01:54 AM
Q isn't a villain. An antagonist, yeah, but not a villain.

Avilan the Grey
2010-02-19, 02:21 AM
Absolute favorite: The "New" universe from the movie reboot of TOS.

Character favorites: Kirk and Spock from TOS.

TV series favorite: TNG. Mostly, I guess, because that was the series that was running when I discovered Star Trek. Plus I love the evil Klingon Sisters (they were in way too few episodes!)

thompur
2010-02-19, 09:39 AM
TOS - Classic Trek! I used to be able to quote whole scenes with my brother, mainly because we would watch the reruns constantly. Since there were only 79 eps, we saw all of them many times. Loved the Kirk/Spock/McCoy dynamic.

TNG - I always called this the 'Get-Along-Gang in Space'. Yes, the acting was better, but there was no tension between the characters. They tried to correct that with the new doctor, but the chemistry wasn't there.
I guess that's why I liked...

DS9 so much more. Great character interactions, more consistantly good writing, and better overall cast.

None of the others impressed me enough except for...

Favorite Animal: PORTHOS!!!

Dervag
2010-02-19, 09:57 AM
Favorite villian has to be Q. As John de Lancie says of Q (by way of Lord Byron), "he was mad, bad and dangerous to know". The audio recording of him and Spock debating is hilarious and one of my favorite things that I have purchased.Wait, what is this and how do I get a copy?

Joran
2010-02-19, 11:23 AM
Up until Seven of Nine joined the show, I'd agree. However, Year of Hell pt 1 and 2, plus Scorpion pt 1 and 2 are worthy additions to Trek. Though I have to say, Star Trek is just lame for the most part, despite me really liking the show.

Year of Hell was quite good, except the writers then made the entire thing irrelevant by hitting the reset button hard. It was interesting to see how the crew banded together, the relationships that were formed, but otherwise it had no major impact on the characters or the series as a whole.

This is one of my major issues with Voyager; nothing really has long-range consequences on the show. One of my favorite episodes was Timeless, where Harry Kim for once didn't die, and bitter, old Harry Kim had to try to save the ship. Once again, Voyager hit the reset button.


To be fair, Star Trek did set the bar for science fiction on tv pretty high. But that was when there was no competition. Babylon 5 showed that you didn't have to hit the reset button every week. Farscape showed that you could go to some extremely surreal and disturbing places. Stargate and spinoffs showed that action and story, along with extended plotlines don't have to be mutually exclusive. And BSG showed that you don't have to assume your audience is dumb and only really paying attention to the token bimbo in the cast.

As a huge fan of Babylon 5, I think DS9 stands up quite nicely with it. I can see some similarities but the accusations of "ripping off" seem overstated.

I don't think the influence of Star Trek: TOS can be overstated; it's groundbreaking television for people growing up in the 1960's. It tackled a bunch of the social issues that were otherwise untouchable on network TV. Heck, Martin Luther King Jr. forbid Nichelle Nichols from quitting the show because of the impact her presence on TV had on African-Americans.

http://planetwaves.net/pagetwo/2010/01/18/martin-luther-king-mlk-uhura-nichelle-nichols/

Star Trek at its very best touches issues outside of its universe and into the real world.

Roukon
2010-02-19, 11:30 AM
Wait, what is this and how do I get a copy?

There are two audio recordings made by John de Lancie and Leonard Nimoy called "Spock vs Q." They are recordings of them from conventions some years ago, iirc. I found them on Amazon and bought them a few years ago. http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Spock-Collection-Gift/dp/0743509463/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266597689&sr=8-1

Later Days,
Roukon

onthetown
2010-02-19, 11:40 AM
Original Star Trek is my favourite, then TNG, then Voyager. I grew up watching Voyager with my cousin so it used to be my all-time favourite, now it's just funny to watch.

Favourite episode is the Trouble With Tribbles :smallwink: I have a mouse named Tribble because of it. Also, Threshold from Voyager is hilarious when drunk. And when sober.

The Big Dice
2010-02-19, 12:05 PM
This is one of my major issues with Voyager; nothing really has long-range consequences on the show.

No consequences is one of my biggest issues with Star Trek in general. In many ways, that's an effect of the times the show was made in, but in general Trek has always held to the rules of each episode is a self contained entity, with no real development of situation. They dabbled with that a little in DS9 and to a greater extent with Enterprise. But really, the format got left behind when guys like Joss Whedon and J Michael Straczinski came on the scene.

That said, you can't overstate the importance of both TOS and TNG. Both were iconic shows in ways that none of the other three spinoffs could quite capture.

Kobold-Bard
2010-02-19, 12:35 PM
...Enterprise: Boldly going where ... waitaminute!...

So is Enterprise worth the investment of time?

Starfols
2010-02-19, 01:32 PM
So is Enterprise worth the investment of time?

It's my favorite by far, but everyone else hates it :smallfrown:. It's only four seasons, so it's not really that big of an investment. It's popularly believed the 3rd or 4th season is the best, perhaps start there.

Athaniar
2010-02-19, 01:45 PM
I suggest you watch at least the pilot two-parter, and then jump to the last episode of season 2, if you're not like me and want to see everything anyway (including a surprise appearance by the Borg). The first two seasons were very dull, but the third and fourth are awesome.

Kobold-Bard
2010-02-19, 01:51 PM
Well then, perhaps I'll watch it once I get through with Shameless.

Joran
2010-02-19, 03:07 PM
It's my favorite by far, but everyone else hates it :smallfrown:. It's only four seasons, so it's not really that big of an investment. It's popularly believed the 3rd or 4th season is the best, perhaps start there.

I gave it one and a half seasons and just couldn't do it anymore. I've been told the third or fourth season got better, but I was already disillusioned with it.


No consequences is one of my biggest issues with Star Trek in general. In many ways, that's an effect of the times the show was made in, but in general Trek has always held to the rules of each episode is a self contained entity, with no real development of situation. They dabbled with that a little in DS9 and to a greater extent with Enterprise. But really, the format got left behind when guys like Joss Whedon and J Michael Straczinski came on the scene.

The episodic format is alive and well, but just not in sci-fi. Crime shows like CSI and Law and Order, medical shows like House are some of the most popular shows on television. It just seems like episodic television shows for sci-fi are less prevalent. For a production company, episodic is better because you can sell it to syndication and do repeats; serial dramas like Lost don't do as well on repeats. Also, it's harder for people to get into the show while it's going on; it's either better to start from the beginning or just wait for the DVDs to come out and watch it that way.

Currently Burn Notice has it right, I think. Burn Notice is mostly episodic with only the first and last 5 minutes devoted to an overarching plot. The "previously on Burn Notice" section, informs everyone enough for the overarching plot to make sense.

Kobold-Bard
2010-02-19, 03:17 PM
...The episodic format is alive and well, but just not in sci-fi....

Oh so very true. (http://www.cracked.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/cracked-article.jpg)

Lord Seth
2010-02-19, 11:13 PM
So is Enterprise worth the investment of time?Well I'd suggest skipping most if not all of the first two seasons. I know I always quote SF Debris regarding Star Trek, but it's just because he says things better than I could, and this applies very well to the first two seasons of Enterprise: "Idiot explanations to justify boring hack stories." It doesn't help that the characters for the most part all act like idiots and leave you wondering that if these were the guys that made the cut to be on the Enterprise, the rest of Starfleet must be full of drooling morons.

The last episode of season two finally, finally actually starts making things interesting. It really has one of the most effective teasers I've seen in any Star Trek episode, and while the rest of the episode isn't anything amazing, it definitely felt like actual effort was being put into it. And that brings us to season three. Season three had some very high points, and some very low points. But unlike the first two seasons, it had actual high points, rather than episodes that just sucked less than the rest. Season four for the most part was pretty good, but unfortunately it got cancelled after that, with what it seems everyone considers to be a purely awful finale. A shame, it looked like they had some interesting ideas for season five...


The episodic format is alive and well, but just not in sci-fi. Crime shows like CSI and Law and Order, medical shows like House are some of the most popular shows on television.House may be episodic in the patient-of-the-week stuff but it does have overarching story arcs in most episodes.

Athaniar
2010-02-20, 05:39 AM
If you want to know what happened after ENT season 4, thought the series finale was a bit... odd, and enjoy reading Star Trek novels, read The Good That Men Do, then Kobayashi Maru, and then The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing. I've already read the first two and will start reading The Romulan War next week.

Kobold-Bard
2010-02-21, 06:24 AM
I never realised how much of a racist Miles O'Brian is about Cardassians. He seems like such a nice guy.

Joran
2010-02-22, 04:26 PM
I never realised how much of a racist Miles O'Brian is about Cardassians. He seems like such a nice guy.

He's the every-man of the crew: the one with a family, the only non-officer of the bunch, the guy who'd you want to be have a drink with.

That's why almost every season, the creators decide to make one episode specifically to torture O'Brien.

He's been thrown in jail for years (only in his mind), he's been undercover with the mob where he was forced to befriend then betray a member, his wife's been taken over by a hostile alien, and he died once.

Apparently, O'Brien's hatred of Cardassians came about because he witnessed a civilian massacre and also accidentally killed one of them during a battle, which was the first time he killed anything. Poor guy.

comicshorse
2010-02-22, 04:33 PM
He's been thrown in jail for years (only in his mind), he's been undercover with the mob where he was forced to befriend then betray a member, his wife's been taken over by a hostile alien, and he died once.

You forgot temporarily losing his daughter, being nearly killed by an alien bio weapon and being hunted by a psychotic Garak

Zeta Kai
2010-02-22, 04:47 PM
Well, I can see the greatness (& shear awfulness) of every series, & I love me some DS9 (which seems to be the most consistently high-quality series), but I have a special place in my heart for TNG. And by TNG, I mean seasons 3-7. Those first two seasons are dreeeeeeeaaaadful. :smallsigh:


It really has one of the most effective teasers I've seen in any Star Trek episode, and while the rest of the episode isn't anything amazing, it definitely felt like actual effort was being put into it.

Picard: All hands, abandon ship! Repeat! All hands, ab-

Ship asplode.

Opening credits start.

That (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cause_and_Effect) is how you do a teaser to start an episode.

Arcane_Secrets
2010-02-22, 06:54 PM
You forgot temporarily losing his daughter, being nearly killed by an alien bio weapon and being hunted by a psychotic Garak

He also got kidnapped by the Cardassians in deep space-where they put him on trial for a crime they framed him for, and the Cardassian 'justice' system consists entirely of show trials in which the defendant is always presumed guilty.

Lord Seth
2010-02-23, 12:25 AM
Well, I can see the greatness (& shear awfulness) of every series, & I love me some DS9 (which seems to be the most consistently high-quality series), but I have a special place in my heart for TNG. And by TNG, I mean seasons 3-7. Those first two seasons are dreeeeeeeaaaadful. :smallsigh:Nah, the first two seasons were okay. They weren't bad (not bad like the first two seasons of Enterprise), they were just average. And they weren't without their standout episodes; "The Measure of a Man" is considered to be one of the best episodes of the entire series, and I think "11001001" and "Q Who?" were pretty good as well.


Picard: All hands, abandon ship! Repeat! All hands, ab-

Ship asplode.

Opening credits start.

That (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cause_and_Effect) is how you do a teaser to start an episode.That was another good teaser.

celticbushido
2010-02-23, 04:15 AM
Favorite Series: Well, DS9 is awesome for reasons I'll note below, and is honestly probably the best over all series, but TNG gets my vote. Honestly I grew up watching it, and really just the theme music alone is enough to make my heart all warm and fuzzy. TOS is well the foundation of it all, but really for me it's nothing but cheese, enjoyable cheese, but I have a hard time taking it seriously. Voyager, and Enterprise....meh

Favorite Captain: Certainly Sir Patrick Stewart is a better actor, and Picard is awesome on a stick, but ultimately Sisco wins. The guy manages to balance being a single father, prophet, overseer of a vast interstellar space station, and federation liaison to an entirely new and unexplored sector of the galaxy. All that better he even get's his fourth pip. It took the Federation going to war, to get his promotion but once he became a full Captain he fully put on display his full range of badass warrior instincts. Not to mention he survived Wolf 359. you know where Picard led full Borg assaulted on a Federation armada, 'nuff said.

Favorite Main Character: Three way tie between Data, Picard, and Doctor Bashir. Data, simply is, how can you not love his fumbling attempts to become more human. Brent Spiner is a fantastic actor and watching him become more and more human never ceases to make me smile. To this day if I ever feel awkward and out a place in life, I think of Data, and somehow that makes it better.

Picard the character fully goes beyond Picard the Captain. Often the Picard's best moments of character are in his most uncaptainly moments, such as recovering from his Borg Assimilation or torture at the hands of Gul Madred, or just playing a flute.

DS9's good doctor is just so fun it's hard not to like him. In many ways I feel like he's the heart of DS9, the glue that bounds them all together. Plus he's got all those awesome upgrades, and still lets O'Brien win at darts.

Honorable mentions go to Garek, O'Brien and Quark

Favorite Secondary Characters: Lwaxana Troi and Q. Both are just over all fun characters. Whenever they appear in an episode you know at very least you're in for a laugh.

Favorite Race: Cardassians for the win. As evil as they were at first as brutal dictators of the Bajorans, they fully ratchet up the jerk scale by aligning with the Dominion. Quality, believable villains with solid motivation, and frightening execution. The Borg started out as Cthulu level scary but got watered down really quickly, which is very sad. Also the Jem'Hadar are pretty brutal themselves even though they really don't qualify as being a full race since they're just bio-engineered shock troops.

Favorite Villains: Gul Dukat of the Cardassians, and Commander Sela of the Romulans.

Gul Dukat, eats, drinks, and lives villainy, look into his eyes you'll see nothing but darkness and I sometimes have nightmares about what might be going on inside the guy's head. Best of all he's a true believer, he knows everything is does is completely right, couldn't possibly be wrong. This is the stuff of Devils.

Commander Sela is just a perfect foil for the crew of the Enterprise. She has the face of their fallen comrade, but the mind of a completely devoted Romulan. Honestly I wish they'd focused more on her and the Romulans as an antagonist for TNG, there were some great stories there, even if they were never ultimately told.

Honorable mention goes to Lore.

Favorite Movie: Wrath of Khan or New Trek.

I may not have been able to take TOS seriously but Khan proved me wrong. I still sit on the edge of my seat whenever I watch two great warriors in Kirk and Khan match wits and wills.

New Trek, it was both completely satisfying, and totally accessible. People who've never liked Star Trek, like my roommate love the movie. Quality action, and acting, coupled with a plausible (at least in Federationverse) explanation as to why events in this series will diverge from events of any existing Star Trek continuity. Not only do I just plain like it the simple fact that it's brought new fans to my most beloved sci-fi franchise, has to make it my favorite.

Athaniar
2010-02-23, 12:31 PM
My own favorite teaser has to be Scorpion's.

d12
2010-02-23, 10:21 PM
Favorite series is probably TOS, though even then there's a lot of it I just don't care for. In Futurama, when Fry described Trek to Leonard Nimoy's head as having "79 episodes, about 30 good ones," he was actually surprisingly accurate, if probably a bit charitable. Sure it's kind of cheesy, but to a degree that contributes to the entertainment sometimes (and Shatner's always good for a few laughs).

TNG takes itself too seriously and still manages to be really cheesy most of the time. Not to mention that the only forms of entertainment in the 24th century seem to be community theater and pretending you're not in space by using a technology that would have been permanently decommissioned after season 2 for massive design flaws (seriously, holodeck eps suck). Oh, and quoting nursery rhymes as some kind of reference to high culture..what the hell is that?? Bach, Mozart, Tchaikovsky? Buncha bums. Humpty Dumpty, now that encapsulates the human experience. And this is kind of how every TNG ep seems to feel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtmbzJNPsaQ& :smalltongue: Those edits are better than the actual series a lot of the time.

DS9 just doesn't seem to move most of the time, so I quickly get fatigued watching it. They also seemed to forget about the lighting budget for most of its run (there's an episode where Quark walks over to a window to get a better look at something he's holding--he walks to a window to the inky void of space in order to be able to read better). Then there's the bajorans--friggin can't stand the bajorans. They may not have been quite so intolerable if Kira wasn't constantly crying about their culture or some crap. Yeah, imagine that, your poetry brigades were of limited utility when the cardassians started airdropping doom legions on your planet. There's probably a lesson in there somewhere, which it may behoove you to bother learning, since Darwin seems to have taken a holiday.

Voyager is...Voyager. Probably my favorite episode of Voyager would have to be Year of Hell (even though I normally can't stand time travel), mostly because I always thought that was kind of a microcosm of how the series as a whole should have run (minus the time travel garbage). You suddenly find yourself on the opposite side of the galaxy, way the hell away from any allies, reinforcements, or supplies. This region is generally poorly understood and seems to have a reputation of being kind of dangerous (that I seem to remember), so naturally supplies are going to be low a lot of the time, the crew's going to shrink (unless you happen across some friendlies willing to join), the ship's going to take damage that can't be repaired, you may need to start resorting to desperate measures in order to try surviving, etc.

Haven't seen a lot of Enterprise, but based on what I have seen I have something of a question. Is it me, or do a lot of the rooms on that ship have a lot of empty space? At least I think the shots I'm thinking of were on the ship rather than a station or something. I mean, some of those rooms must have 20-foot ceilings. And these aren't even cargo bays or anything; what possible purpose could all of that vertical space serve? I don't think even the Enterprise D has that much roominess, and it was built what, 200 years later? For being on a starship they sure seem to waste a ton of space. And you can't really say that the space on Enterprise D had to go to the weapons/defense systems, since their shields fail whenever they so much as encounter the interstellar medium.

Favorite captain, appropriately, is Kirk. Picard's ok sometimes, but just not as enjoyable. Sisko has a good commander-type look about, what, 3 seasons in (when he started shaving his head and grew the goatee), but he has some weird verbal tics that frequently sound like he's trying to channel Kirk, which I always found really distracting. And I never really cared for the whole 'prophet' thing. Janeway's got a voice you can cut glass with, and seemed all around unremarkable besides that (though it's been a while since I've actually watched, much less paid much attention to Voyager). Never really saw much of Enterprise, so I can't say much about Captain Sam Beckett.

Favorite non-captain character would probably have to be either Spock or Q, aside from the writers' tendency to confuse "logical" with "reasonable" and the fact that I never really liked the idea of the Q continuum for some reason.

The problem I have with antagonists in Trek is that the writers always seem to find a way to screw them up. The klingons were turned into some quasi-tribal bunch who are way too obsessed with beating themselves for insults one of their grandfathers hurled at the other and who I have a hard time believing would ever make it into space. The borg--ugh, I used to have an actual list of things they did wrong with the borg. The only one I really remember is that whole emo "we're just so ronery" phase they had when they were whoring around with Lor. Then of course there was the whole borg queen thing. I mean, this is a technological hivemind, not a friggin ant colony. Perhaps the most painful was species 8472. They were introduced as a pack of super-badasses that made the borg crap themselves in terror, so naturally by the end they're a bunch of xenocidal maniacs who just want peace...what??? I mean, sure I guess there would be a general lack of conflict after wiping out everybody else (outside of internal power struggles or something), but I didn't get the impression that's what the writers were going for.

All that being said, um, I always kind of liked either Weyoun specifically or the vorta in general. Never really figured out why. Can't really say I like the klingons or vulcans, since the writers' apparent attempts to humanize them in later series just made them a lot less interesting to me.

Data always bothered me. Always seemed too expressive for an emotionless robot. And the "I wanna be a real live boy" thing got tired very quickly. And he really should have pulled a few of these now and then: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iTsLZFaYIw& :smallbiggrin:

tl;dr: In my experience, even when Star Trek is good, it's still not very good.

Joran
2010-02-24, 01:44 PM
DS9 just doesn't seem to move most of the time, so I quickly get fatigued watching it. They also seemed to forget about the lighting budget for most of its run (there's an episode where Quark walks over to a window to get a better look at something he's holding--he walks to a window to the inky void of space in order to be able to read better). Then there's the bajorans--friggin can't stand the bajorans. They may not have been quite so intolerable if Kira wasn't constantly crying about their culture or some crap. Yeah, imagine that, your poetry brigades were of limited utility when the cardassians started airdropping doom legions on your planet. There's probably a lesson in there somewhere, which it may behoove you to bother learning, since Darwin seems to have taken a holiday.


I don't remember much about Bajoran poetry. I always imagined the Bajorans to be China or Korea, with the Cardassians as the Japanese. The Cardassians were just more advanced than the Bajorans, with the Bajorans not even settling outside of their system before they got occupied by a starfaring civilization. It wasn't a fair fight.

I liked Kira, especially. When confronted by a Cardassian civilian that was collateral damage to an attack that she made, instead of apologizing for an indiscriminate attack, she said something to the point of "None of you should have been on our planet in the first place; to me, you were all legitimate targets."

I liked the Bajorans actually. There were the collaborators, who helped the Cardassians along with the resistance. They're picking up the pieces right around the first season, so there's a lot of nice tensions between the groups, with lots of politicking and backstabbing.