Dresden Files Alternate Future

[desertfox999]

How about this for an alternate future for Harry Dresden? Post other ideas and comment on mine to build the ultimate future.

Sanya sacrifices himself to save Harry, fueling his anger: all three of the Knights have fallen because of him. To seek revenge on Nicodemus, Harry takes up Fidelacchius (Faith), because he sees that only Faith can triumph. Using Fidelacchius, Sanya had killed four of the Denarians. When he announces that he is going to kill Nicodemus, Murphy and Thomas say they will help him by taking up the other Swords. Murphy takes up Esperacchius (Hope), and Thomas takes up Amoracchius (Love). Murphy is able to use her Sword because she has hope that she can cleanse the world, while Thomas is able to to use his Sword because of his love for Justine.

Let's keep this idea going.

[KnightDisciple]

I...don't think that works.

First, I'd say Fidelacchius fits Murphy better.

Second, I don't think either Thomas or Harry has the right mindset for the swords. They're not just nifty magic items that work if you have some sampling of the necessary virtue. They're very holy relics.

Picking any of them up in anger, with the specific intent to kill and not to protect, will weaken or even destroy the swords.

[desertfox999]

Ok, with the swords, either Jim Butcher didn't think things out or he has a major Chekhov's Gun (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitlexn9xzsjd5fif?from=Main.ChekhovsGun) planned. Why does the small, quick Asian guy have a katana, the big Russian has a saber, and the big white guy has a broadsword. This may be a WMG (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WildMassGuessing?from=WMG.WildMassGuessing), but maybe the Knights can change the weapon to suit themselves. That, or Jim Butcher has no imagination (which we know isn't true). In that case, then the swords work where they are.

As for the protection thing, Murphy wants to protect the humans, Thomas wants to protect Justine, and Harry wants to protect everyone who he hurt or caused to be hurt. That's pretty much everybody, because Harry caused all three of the Knights (in this alternate reality) to fall.

[KnightDisciple]

Ok, with the swords, either Jim Butcher didn't think things out or he has a major Chekhov's Gun (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitlexn9xzsjd5fif?from=Main.ChekhovsGun) planned. Why does the small, quick Asian guy have a katana, the big Russian has a saber, and the big white guy has a broadsword. This may be a WMG (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WildMassGuessing?from=WMG.WildMassGuessing), but maybe the Knights can change the weapon to suit themselves. That, or Jim Butcher has no imagination (which we know isn't true). In that case, then the swords work where they are.

As for the protection thing, Murphy wants to protect the humans, Thomas wants to protect Justine, and Harry wants to protect everyone who he hurt or caused to be hurt. That's pretty much everybody, because Harry caused all three of the Knights (in this alternate reality) to fall.

First, it's been explicitly stated that the swords have been "reworked" (well, Fidelacchius and Esperacchius have been; Amoracchius never has been, and it was Excalibur). So the "changing to fit the wielder" is...not how it works.

Second, I was speaking in the metaphysical sense, that Faith seems to fit Murphy's personality better than Hope. Remember, the reason she refused the offer in the first place is because she already has an oath/job that she's dedicated to. That says "Faith" more than anything.

The thing is, Michael displays love to everyone. He's merciful towards people who willingly allied with fallen angels.
Thomas loves Justine, and loves Harry (as a brother). That's...about it. Thomas isn't a loving person. He's not a nice person. He's frankly too corrupted, too tainted to wield one of the Swords.

Harry's better in that sense, but I don't think he's Knight material. I think he's going to stay a wizard.

Also, recall that as he researches, he finds that all three of the most recent Knights are descended from royalty. This is speculated to be a prerequisite.

Suffice to say, I just don't see your scenario coming about, for various reasons that have nothing to do with the shape of the sword.

[desertfox999]

Then who would take up Esperacchius? Let's look at our cast of characters major enough to become a Knight:
Bob: a), he's a spirit, and b), can't really be trusted with a Sword.
Molly: Maybe, with years and years of training, but not in the foreseeable future.
Ivy: She's a little girl with plenty of power, but no melee skills.
Billy or Georgia: Nope. Too comfortable in their situation.
Charity: Sure, and leave the Carpenter kids with one parent, who's wounded?
Kincaid: Too much of a dark history.
Luccio: Actually, not too far-fetched, but nobody would like the career change.
McCoy: Too old.
Marcone: He's seen less and less combat in recent years, getting away from it. Kind of a change from when he went in, guns blazing. Not Knight material.

That's everybody on the Wikipedia list who isn't evil, dead, or an animal.

Who else but Harry?

[ReluctantReaper]

The answer is obvious....some character that we have not seen yet.

[KnightDisciple]

The answer is obvious....some character that we have not seen yet.

Yeah. I mean, we didn't see Sanya or Shiro until Death Masks. Let's give it time. We've got several more novels like we've had, and then the Apocalyptic Trilogy.

[desertfox999]

All I can say is, Jim Butcher had better give the series a relatively happy ending. I hate those books that end really sadly. Like The Green Mile.

Random thought: What if Molly and Carlos hooked up?

[Cheesegear]

Who else but Harry?

Butters. Obviously. :smalltongue:

In Dead Beat (maybe it was White Night though), Harry says something like "I sure wish one of those Knights would turn up about now..."

He doesn't get a Knight. He gets Butters. And we all know Jim is a fan of foreshadowing. Maybe in the near future Butters will take a level in Badass?

Second, "God sees hearts." We know that Butters can't actually help all the time. But, he wants to. Even when it's against his best interests.

Third, we know Butters has the knowledge to help. But, not the actual skills required. We also know that the swords make you awesome. As Michael and the others are less powerful 'off the clock'.

[Weezer]

All I can say is, Jim Butcher had better give the series a relatively happy ending. I hate those books that end really sadly. Like The Green Mile.

Whats wrong with sad endings? I've found that a really good sad ending is often much more affective than happy endings. Also a well written sad ending is very refreshing, too many books end far too neatly. Though I wouldn't worry, from what I've read of Dresden Files they've all ended relatively happy, or at least definitely not sad so I wouldn't expect him to end the series in a different manner.



Random thought: What if Molly and Carlos hooked up?

Is that line of speculation entirely necessary?

[Tavar]

He doesn't get a Knight. He gets Butters. And we all know Jim is a fan of foreshadowing. Maybe in the near future Butters will take a level in Badass?


Wait, so being the onemanpolkaband/drummer for the dinozombie doesn't count as Badass?

Also, hasn't Murphy's sword already kinda been confirmed. She hasn't taken it up, but one of the swords definitely started it's mojo when she picked it up in one of the books (not sure which).

[KnightDisciple]

Wait, so being the onemanpolkaband/drummer for the dinozombie doesn't count as Badass?

Also, hasn't Murphy's sword already kinda been confirmed. She hasn't taken it up, but one of the swords definitely started it's mojo when she picked it up in one of the books (not sure which).

It was Fidelacchius. Harry even said something like "that sure looked like a job offer to me".

Fidelacchius currently is in the form of a Japanese cane sword.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Its been personally obvious to me for awhile that Murphy will eventually wield Fidelacchius given Harry vision of her with the Sight as a sword wielding angel, its a quasi-katana and Murphy practices akkido, and of course the job offer. She's going to get fired from her job in some future book and then take it up seeing as her obligation to the city of Chicago is met.

The real question is who steps into Michael's awesome shoes, I don't think we've got a good answer there quite yet.

Incidentially I going with Sanya riding it out for awhile yet. I think Butcher would love the irony of the only lasting knight being the "atheist" one.


Random thought: What if Molly and Carlos hooked up?

Molly is apparently dating the young PI we met in the last book, or at least set it up. Plot thread not followed up on in by the conclusion.

[thorgrim29]

I'm of the opinion Thomas takes up Ammorachius, because wielding the sword of love is probably the only thing that can cancel out the monster in his soul. Of course, he's going to have to get over his moral blue screen first.

[KnightDisciple]

I'm of the opinion Thomas takes up Ammorachius, because wielding the sword of love is probably the only thing that can cancel out the monster in his soul. Of course, he's going to have to get over his moral blue screen first.

...I'm still not seeing how Thomas fits the criteria. He loves two people. Justine, and Harry. And he's honest enough to admit he does horrible things sometimes to protect them (per "Backup"). Beyond that, he doesn't seem like someone to wield a holy sword centered around love.

Or any holy sword at all.

I'm sure there's another method that will feel far, far less contrived.

[Cheesegear]

The real question is who steps into Michael's awesome shoes, I don't think we've got a good answer there quite yet.

I don't think anyone will - or should. Michael did his thing. And he did it awesomely. If someone else takes up the sword, it will be lame. Because we've already seen it done - about a hundred times better - by Michael. No-one will ever dual-wield Excalibur and a Holy Katana on the top of a moving train against the most hardcore Fallen Angel ever again.

My best guess is Butters. Or Charity. If it would be anyone at all.
Not sure which sword Butters would get. Probably Hope.
But, Charity loves everyone. Even Harry. :smallamused: And yeah, I'm pretty sure she would definitely stand in her husband's place if she could. She already has some battle-training to boot.

There needs to be some women in the book who aren't either a) The Bad Guy, or b) Repeatedly kicked and broken.

Murphy would be good. But, we know she 'turned it down'. You can apparently do that. And I wouldn't put it past it to be a 'one time offer' deal. You have a choice, after all. And Murphy's was that she doesn't want it.

If she did take it, it would probably because there's just nothing left. Or no other options. And, I'm fairly certain that 'it' shouldn't work that way. If it does, I think Butcher will have just killed his 'Faith is a Choice' mythos.

"Oh...Hey, I was fired from my job...I'll just take up that sword now if it wouldn't be any problem..."

...Oooh. We know Susan is in the next book. Would she count?

[Jade_Tarem]

This line of speculation has been done before. Fidelacchius is a perfect fit for Murphy - she turned it down out of loyalty to her existing commitment to Chicago CP-SI. The arguments against it ever ending up in her hand rely mostly on "facts" made up on the spot - like the offer being a one-time deal, which to my knowledge isn't supported by anything in the story.

Given that there's a bunch of books to go, and a few months to a year between each book, there's time for Molly to pick up the sword - one of her possible futures in the Soulgaze showed her with a sword. It was probably supposed to be a Warden Sword, but who knows? This theory has the added benefit of her being a direct descendent of Charlemagne, although it has the disadvantage of Molly really, really hating direct combat.

Charity is an even smaller possibility. She's too tied up with her family to really take up the blade, unless she suddenly became very, very confident that Michael could take care of them.

There's also the outside chance that Michael Carpenter will get better. I don't really think that's going to happen, but we know that the Dresdenverse is full of astonishing magic - including the power to reverse vampirism (granted, it came from the Faerie Queens). This would imply that the ability to fix him up is out there somewhere.

Butters just seems like too much of a stretch. He's about as dangerous as an anemic housefly, and completely settled in his job - which is also incredibly convenient for Harry in terms of supplying clandestine medical support and tech savvy. There's character development, and then there's character derailment, and Butters as a sword-wielding holy knight is more of the latter, IMO.

Also note that Harry's argument to Michael about how he wanted a knight to help him with Cassius and he got Butters instead is fallacious - Cassius wasn't a Denarian at the time. Heck, he was barely alive.

Thomas I find doubtful due to general goodness issues, but he's still more likely to wield it than Marcone, who is the last major character (who isn't also a recurring villain) who should be given a sword. To be fair, remember that Sanya was almost still a Denarian when offered Esperacchius, so maybe Thomas will end up with it after all - and remember that he is the son of the White King (and depending on just how much of Lord Raith's mind is left, could technically already be the White King), so if royalty is a requirement then he's got that covered...

Nah, I'm with those who think it will be a character we haven't seen yet that gets Amoracchius - if someone picks it up again at all.

[Hadessniper]

...although it has the disadvantage of Molly really, really hating direct combat.

There is literally no way Molly can avoid taking a level in badass. If by the end of the series she isn't a major player I will eat my shoes, but that being said I don't think she will take up one of the swords. Hasn't it been heavily implied that wizards can't wield them at all?

[desertfox999]

There's also the outside chance that Michael Carpenter will get better. I don't really think that's going to happen, but we know that the Dresdenverse is full of astonishing magic - including the power to reverse vampirism (granted, it came from the Faerie Queens). This would imply that the ability to fix him up is out there somewhere.

Butters just seems like too much of a stretch. He's about as dangerous as an anemic housefly, and completely settled in his job - which is also incredibly convenient for Harry in terms of supplying clandestine medical support and tech savvy.

Since I love Jim Butcher, it pains me to say this, but he does sometimes call up Deus Ex Machina to settle some problems. "Hey, guys, we need someone who can give us weapons made of pure iron, as well as wield them. Any volunteers? Oh, hey there, housewife with God-only-knows how many kids! Care to join us on a charge against the faeries?" Seriously?