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View Full Version : What to make for a newish player in a high power group... [3.5e]



Lord of Syntax
2010-02-21, 09:45 PM
I have a fleshworld group with a new player joining (new to D&D, not just new to this group), and it is a __VERY__ high power game, what should I make for him that has fun tricks, but not enough to make his head explode?

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-21, 09:47 PM
I have a fleshworld group with a new player joining (new to D&D, not just new to this group), and it is a __VERY__ high power game, what should I make for him that has fun tricks, but not enough to make his head explode?Crusader or warblade.

Alternately, binder or dragonfire adept. Great with the right feats.

Godskook
2010-02-21, 09:52 PM
Depends on the player's general capability. If he's likely to take a while getting used to D&D before he's ready to spread his own wings, DFA is fantabulous. Alternatively, if he's the type to dive straight in, ToB would be better.

Essentially, I'm totally agreeing with Lycanthromancer, except on the Binder part, since from what I've seen, they're not straight-forward to play, even once built.

Flickerdart
2010-02-21, 09:57 PM
Give him a Barbarian. They're easy to play, take a long time to kill and his friends can buff him in case of whatever.

Draz74
2010-02-21, 09:57 PM
Yeah, before I read the other responses, I was already going to say "Dragonfire Adept."

Godskook
2010-02-21, 10:02 PM
If he goes DFA, make sure he grabs the feat Entangling Exhalation. It is to DFAs what Spell Focus is to wizards.

Lord of Syntax
2010-02-21, 10:03 PM
The party is a Dark Chaos Shuffling Anthropomorphic Bat (+6 to Wis) DMM: Persist abusing Cleric/Sovereign Speaker/Contemplative (6 bonus domains between them (for Dark Chaos Shuffle fuel))//Druid/Planar Shepard (me), and some other gawdly overpowered builds I don't know.

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-21, 10:06 PM
The party is a Dark Chaos Shuffling Anthropomorphic Bat (+6 to Wis) DMM: Persist abusing Cleric/Sovereign Speaker/Contemplative (6 bonus domains between them!)//Druid/Planar Shepard (me), and some other gawdly overpowered builds I don't know.d2 crusader, then.

Draz74
2010-02-21, 10:07 PM
The party is a Dark Chaos Shuffling Anthropomorphic Bat (+6 to Wis) DMM: Persist abusing Cleric/Sovereign Speaker/Contemplative (6 bonus domains between them!)//Druid/Planar Shepard (me), and some other gawdly overpowered builds I don't know.

Ah. OK, a run-of-the-mill DFA with Entangling Exhalation will probably be a little ... impotent, then.

In that case, I'm thinking maybe he should use something that's normally ridiculously broken, and count on his inexperience with the game to tone him down to non-game-breaking levels. Tainted Scholar, maybe?

... No, wait, I've got it: Hulking Hurler abuse. Possibly on a Tauric Template creature. It doesn't get much simpler than "My turn? I throw another boulder. 4287d6 damage."

Human Paragon 3
2010-02-21, 10:07 PM
Set him up with an ubercharger build with irrelevent flaws for bonus feats. Help him pick out really good magical gear. That should at least let him contribute to a party like this. And buff him.

WeeFreeMen
2010-02-21, 10:13 PM
Pun-Pun?..
I kid.

However, Have you thought of Wizard lock-down / Batman?
Can never go wrong with one of those, and played right not much can beat it.

Plus its good fun ;]
RP him as Insane :D

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-21, 10:13 PM
Vow of Poverty Dragonfire Inspiration/Snowflake Wardance bard/crusader/sublime chord (1)/jade phoenix mage? Focusing on White Raven maneuvers?

Buff while you buff while you buff in the buff?

Godskook
2010-02-21, 10:13 PM
The party is a Dark Chaos Shuffling Anthropomorphic Bat (+6 to Wis) DMM: Persist abusing Cleric/Sovereign Speaker/Contemplative (6 bonus domains between them (for Dark Chaos Shuffle fuel))//Druid/Planar Shepard (me), and some other gawdly overpowered builds I don't know.

Oh, oh god. I can't tell where one build ends and the next begins.

Lord of Syntax
2010-02-21, 10:18 PM
It is all me, yay gestalt!

Arakune
2010-02-21, 10:20 PM
What the GM throws at you? Twice Betrayer? Ike Tarrasques? Tarrasques as MOB?

Dusk Eclipse
2010-02-21, 10:21 PM
The party is a Dark Chaos Shuffling Anthropomorphic Bat (+6 to Wis) DMM: Persist abusing Cleric/Sovereign Speaker/Contemplative (6 bonus domains between them (for Dark Chaos Shuffle fuel))//Druid/Planar Shepard (me)

You want a newish player to play in such a grou???

Well.... maybe an incantrix// factotum would be nice...give him a magic item of Spellcraft so he can persist, extend sculpt, what ever he wants multiple times per round

Amphetryon
2010-02-21, 10:22 PM
Make a Nasty Gentleman (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19861906/LoPs_Dirty_Tricks_4:_The_Nasty_Gentlemen)

Draz74
2010-02-21, 10:25 PM
I still say this whole situation is precisely why the Hulking Hurler exists. :smallbiggrin:

Lord of Syntax
2010-02-21, 10:27 PM
We are a preexisting group, we are now doing a high powered campaign.

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-21, 10:29 PM
We are a preexisting group, we are now doing a high powered campaign.You horrifically cruel man, you.

[edit] Really, your best bet is to make him into something that gives everyone else more actions. White Raven maneuvers.

Warblade/crusader//factotum?

Play him as an egomaniacal Sun Tzu, playing with the battlefield like a chessboard, moving his pawns on a whim.

Simple, elegant, and able to keep up with the party by making their power his own.

Flickerdart
2010-02-21, 10:32 PM
Yes, perhaps...toning things down might be a good idea. If it's a new player, gestalting together two Tier-1 classes is not a good introduction for them. Having said that, Arcane Swordsage might be what you need.

Kylarra
2010-02-21, 10:35 PM
++to the hulking hurler.

Mushroom Ninja
2010-02-21, 10:41 PM
Maybe some sort of bard with Inspire Courage/Dragonfire Inspiration optimization. As long as the player remembers to sing every combat, they're helping out the party. Beyond that, they can experiment around with a wide range of options without seriously detracting from the group's power.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-02-21, 10:45 PM
Hellfire Glaivelock with a level dip in Binder for Strongheart Vest, and Legacy Champion to promote Hellfire Warlock to stupid levels

He has a short list of fun abilities, can crank out stupid D6's, and has some utility with things like Chilling Tentacles, plus being surprisingly difficult to kill.

Here's how I'd run things:

Eldritch Glaive, Eldritch Spear (for when they try to stay away), and Dark One's Own Luck to help him survive SoD situations for Least invocations

I'd also give him Voratious Dispelling as an Invocation, because sometimes when dealing with a Batman Wizard, the best thing to do is strip him. Plus Flee The Scene. He's gonna need hellrime blast to qualify for HFW

For greater, you got options. Chilling Tentacles are fun, so is Vitriolic Blast and Eldritch Cone/Chain. But there's some fun toys here

And for Dark invocations, you simply cannot go wrong with Utterdark Blast.

Make him a Pixie, and buy off the LA as you progress. That gives you Flight, Greater Invisibility, and Tiny size for better AC. Also, a huge beam of energy erupting from a tiny pixie is simply amusing.

Lord of Syntax
2010-02-21, 10:48 PM
It is starting at lvl 11.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-02-21, 10:54 PM
It is starting at lvl 11.

Gestalt game, right? Here's what you do:

Pixie4/WhateverClass6//Warlock6/HFW3/Bloodline2

Alternately,

Crusader/Cleric/RKV

That ought to be fun

Dusk Eclipse
2010-02-21, 11:02 PM
Hellfire Glaivelock with a level dip in Binder for Strongheart VestNaberious , and Legacy Champion to promote Hellfire Warlock to stupid levels

He has a short list of fun abilities, can crank out stupid D6's, and has some utility with things like Chilling Tentacles, plus being surprisingly difficult to kill.

Here's how I'd run things:

Eldritch Glaive, Eldritch Spear (for when they try to stay away), and Dark One's Own Luck to help him survive SoD situations for Least invocations

I'd also give him Voratious Dispelling as an Invocation, because sometimes when dealing with a Batman Wizard, the best thing to do is strip him. Plus Flee The Scene. He's gonna need hellrime blast to qualify for HFW

For greater, you got options. Chilling Tentacles are fun, so is Vitriolic Blast and Eldritch Cone/Chain. But there's some fun toys here

And for Dark invocations, you simply cannot go wrong with Utterdark Blast.

Make him a Pixie, and buy off the LA as you progress. That gives you Flight, Greater Invisibility, and Tiny size for better AC. Also, a huge beam of energy erupting from a tiny pixie is simply amusing.

Fixed that for you, and Strongheart vest is incarnium

BooNL
2010-02-22, 03:21 AM
I bet you if this guy even takes one glimpse of your characters' sheets he's going to be confused, majorly.

If you want someone to learn the ropes, don't drop them into an 11th level min-maxed gestalt game. Do you really expect him to say "Geeh, I think I've got the hang of this now" after the first 3 sessions?

Seriously, just do a one-off with the guy, using regular rules at low level. After he's broken in a bit, let him join your other game. At least that way he's prepared.

Also, if he's really a newbie, he could consider getting a copy of NWN2. While it's not a perfect intepretation of 3.5, he should be able to pick up some of the rules from that and at least learn which kind of character he likes.

Lord of Syntax
2010-02-22, 04:35 AM
Is is not a "newbie", he just does not have much experience, I can explain the gaps, and the other players wont wait, and it is all ready been timeshifted for me...[/drama]
We need someone for the role of the corpse front-line combatant.

Eldariel
2010-02-22, 04:36 AM
Druid. Easy, easily powerful enough to carry anyone through. No. Wrong. Choices. Oh, and yeah, pretty fcking good frontliner.

Lord of Syntax
2010-02-22, 04:38 AM
We already have 2.

Draz74
2010-02-22, 04:44 AM
We already have 2.

Technically, I don't see why that should necessarily stop you. :smallamused:

The Warlock with Hellfire shenanigans was a good suggestion, too, though.

Pluto
2010-02-22, 04:48 AM
FoI Factotum//Warblade then.


Overall a set ability list, with room for experimentation and adaptation through spells.
Fills the front-liner role.
Will have something to contribute to any given problem, regardless of the rest of the group.

magic9mushroom
2010-02-22, 04:49 AM
Ah. OK, a run-of-the-mill DFA with Entangling Exhalation will probably be a little ... impotent, then.

In that case, I'm thinking maybe he should use something that's normally ridiculously broken, and count on his inexperience with the game to tone him down to non-game-breaking levels. Tainted Scholar, maybe?

This. Tainted Scholar on a Sorcerer is pretty simple, and doesn't rely much on player skill in combat (just when you're selecting spells, and the other people can help with that)

Kobold White Dragonspawn Sorcerer/Tainted Scholar with Greater Draconic Rite of Passage and Favoured/Primary Contact for early entry. Sounds pretty simple and lethal to me.


... No, wait, I've got it: Hulking Hurler abuse. Possibly on a Tauric Template creature. It doesn't get much simpler than "My turn? I throw another boulder. 4287d6 damage."

Or this.

Wings of Peace
2010-02-22, 04:57 AM
Race: Human Ghost (Ghostwalk)

Side 1: Bard 1/Warblade 8/Mind Bender 1/Master Thrower 1 (Palm Throw)

Side 2: Druid 5/Planar Shepard 6 (Dal'Quor/Region of Dreams)

Feats of Note: Draconic Heritage (Sonic/Force), Dragon Fire Inspiration (Sonic/Force), Ghostly Grasp, Mindsight, Song of the White Raven, Words of Creation,

Weapon of choice: Skullmarbles, LOTS of Skullmarbles.

Maneuvers that matter: White Raven Tactics (Self)

Warcry: "Pew pew!"

Eldariel
2010-02-22, 05:12 AM
We already have 2.

1) What? Party with 2 Druids needs a frontliner?
2) So? 3 Druids is better than 2.

Indon
2010-02-22, 08:30 AM
... No, wait, I've got it: Hulking Hurler abuse. Possibly on a Tauric Template creature. It doesn't get much simpler than "My turn? I throw another boulder. 4287d6 damage."

And War Hulk on the other side of the gestalt progression.

Lord of Syntax
2010-02-22, 02:58 PM
The party is me, a Orb of Doooooom Wizard//Rogue to skillmonkey (dosen't have dungeonscape or brain), a VoP, VoNV Druid (It was ruled that his Animal Companion conted as him) party buffer, and two more I do not know.

Kylarra
2010-02-22, 03:02 PM
Why do you even have a party with shenanigans like that going around?

Lord of Syntax
2010-02-22, 03:08 PM
Fun, of course!

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-02-22, 04:09 PM
You want to make something hard to kill?

Crusader11//Barbarian (lion totem)1/Fighter2/Rogue2/Warhulk6

Pick up the stance that heals you every time you hit an opponent. Pick up Stone Power to be able to ignore 10 damage a round, on top of the Crusader Delay Damage thing.

You have both Evasion and Mettle. If you can make the save, you can completely ignore it.

You can hit 3 opponents with every swing. Great for mowing down mooks.

You can Shock Trooper/Leap Attack and combine it with Spiked Chain + Improved Trip + Combat Reflexes. Toss in Karmic Strike or Robliar's Gambit if you have the space for the feats.

Template-Stack to end up with immunities to most of the shut-down effects.

d13
2010-02-22, 04:54 PM
Why do you want another meatshield, if you already have 2 druids??? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3945177)

Mushroom Ninja
2010-02-22, 04:59 PM
Why do you want another meatshield, if you already have 2 druids??? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3945177)

That's an awesome build! Too bad it doesn't work.

Lord of Syntax
2010-02-22, 05:00 PM
We have a VoNV bufflord Druid and 1 combat druid.

Lord of Syntax
2010-02-22, 09:14 PM
Booooooooiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnggggggggg!

Wings of Peace
2010-02-22, 09:18 PM
My vote still goes out to the marble tosser. Even at level 11 with Rapid shot he'll be throwing 16 marbles per full attack each of which will deal around 4d6 damage each as touch attacks. Add planar bubble and you're throwing around 160 marbles a round, even more if you can get haste.

Artemiz
2010-02-23, 04:31 PM
I don't know how relatively powerful most of these listed builds are, and I know that you already have druids, but a conjuration Druid abusing Greenbound Casting and Ashbound Casting, among others, would DESTROY your game. :smallbiggrin: