College Questions

[Pocketa]

I'm sorry I ask so many.


Does community service still matter? Turns out I do 120 hrs/year helping the elderly, and I have since 7th grade. I also read to kids for 2 hrs/week and help disadvantaged teenagers for 6-8 hrs/week. Is that enough? Someone said it was overkill, but it's also the girl that said the thing about National Merit, so her opinion is nill in this situation.
Does legacy matter? Turns out my family has an herbarium and 2 libraries at a certain Ivy and I'd like to know if that'd help.
Will applying to schools that usually accept students with a less rigorous transcript (scores, GPA, etc.) help me get more financial aid from the school, even if it's an out-of-state school?

[CollinPhillips]

No
No
Possibly

I hope that helps.

[blackfox]

1) Not as much as academic extracurriculars/interest in research.
2) Depends on the Ivy. I trust you to make the right choice. :smallamused:
3) Depends on whether or not the school gives financial aid based on merit alone. If you're applying to Ivy's then you won't get any merit-based anyways, and none at all if your family's rich enough to have buildings in their name. Dog only knows I didn't, and I came from an upper-middle-class family.

[Pocketa]

My college counselor answer:

1.) Yes.
2.) Yes.
3.) Yes.

Her argument was that colleges really don't care about athletics right now because my generation isn't that great at them anyways, and that art is something too subjective for them to judge, as are clubs, but community service shows you're dedicated/committed/passionate/buzzword about your community.

She said legacy counts because the Ivy I like has served my family since before the 1800's, and we've got 2 libraries, an herbarium, a court room, a competition, a scholarship fund, and some other things of interest, in (one of) our name(s). The Ivy I wanted has an acceptance rate of less than 10% (durf) but it's confirmed (from the Ivy) to accept 40% of legacies, and not all legacies donate a dime.

Also, colleges in the midwest are looking for more out of state students because apparently it gives them more funding, somehow? Especially because there seem to be more minorities near the coasts, and that counts for diversity, and thus being half Asian and fully female will help, and because less students apply to midwestern U's, they've got more financial aid money available due to having such high acceptance rates, especially for merit based aid for out of state students. Plus, low cost of living (unrelated) doesn't hurt.

She also said private colleges give larger packages than smaller ones, and the average student that goes to the Ivy I want to go to doesn't pay a dime. Including legacy. Less than 5% of the student accepted received no financial aid. The remaining 95% received full financial aid mostly in the forms of grants or scholarships, very rarely in loans.

Next question:

If one has the funds to do so, does it makes sense to buy a house in Cambridge? Or use one the family owns? Because it's a big house, and I could rent out the rooms to pay the mortgage and my own living costs.

(Just because my family never sells property, they keep it in the family because they like certain areas. Alot.)

[Vaynor]

I'm sorry I ask so many.


Does community service still matter? Turns out I do 120 hrs/year helping the elderly, and I have since 7th grade. I also read to kids for 2 hrs/week and help disadvantaged teenagers for 6-8 hrs/week. Is that enough? Someone said it was overkill, but it's also the girl that said the thing about National Merit, so her opinion is nill in this situation.
Does legacy matter? Turns out my family has an herbarium and 2 libraries at a certain Ivy and I'd like to know if that'd help.
Will applying to schools that usually accept students with a less rigorous transcript (scores, GPA, etc.) help me get more financial aid from the school, even if it's an out-of-state school?


- Not really, but it can, depends on the situation (aka how close you are to getting in when compared to someone else, it can help push you ahead in the ranking)
- Again, depends on the situation. Donating buildings and being a legacy couldn't hurt, but I'm not so keen on the whole Ivy League business, so I don't know. My impression is that it helps, but not as much as it used to.
- Most likely. If a school wants you to go there (if you have higher ratings than the average) they may be more likely to give you more money. I have a friend who turned down Berkeley last year for UC San Diego because they gave him a spot in their special honors program and a lot of money, where he'd receive more attention from teachers than at Berkeley. That's not always the case though, but the lower-level schools are definitely more likely to give you larger amounts of money to attend.

[skywalker]

My college counselor answer:

1.) Yes.
2.) Yes.
3.) Yes.

Her argument was that colleges really don't care about athletics right now because my generation isn't that great at them anyways, and that art is something too subjective for them to judge, as are clubs, but community service shows you're dedicated/committed/passionate/buzzword about your community.

She said legacy counts because the Ivy I like has served my family since before the 1800's, and we've got 2 libraries, an herbarium, a court room, a competition, a scholarship fund, and some other things of interest, in (one of) our name(s). The Ivy I wanted has an acceptance rate of less than 10% (durf) but it's confirmed (from the Ivy) to accept 40% of legacies, and not all legacies donate a dime.

Also, colleges in the midwest are looking for more out of state students because apparently it gives them more funding, somehow? Especially because there seem to be more minorities near the coasts, and that counts for diversity, and thus being half Asian and fully female will help, and because less students apply to midwestern U's, they've got more financial aid money available due to having such high acceptance rates, especially for merit based aid for out of state students. Plus, low cost of living (unrelated) doesn't hurt.

She also said private colleges give larger packages than smaller ones, and the average student that goes to the Ivy I want to go to doesn't pay a dime. Including legacy. Less than 5% of the student accepted received no financial aid. The remaining 95% received full financial aid mostly in the forms of grants or scholarships, very rarely in loans.

Next question:

If one has the funds to do so, does it makes sense to buy a house in Cambridge? Or use one the family owns? Because it's a big house, and I could rent out the rooms to pay the mortgage and my own living costs.

(Just because my family never sells property, they keep it in the family because they like certain areas. Alot.)

You have a good college counselor.

Actually colleges care a lot about athletics, but only if you're good enough to play for one of their teams. Otherwise, she's right. Community service is the new cool thing, but it's not going to get you anywhere on its own. Coupled with good grades, it makes you somewhat different, but a lot of prep schools are on this curve with you, mine required 100 hours of community service because they knew it got you into better colleges.

Yes, legacy absolutely counts in the Ivy League. But, you don't live in the area any more, and you didn't go to one of their preferred feeder schools. So that's not in your favor. It depends who your legacy is, whether it was like your great uncle twice removed, or your dad. Also matters how long it has been since those things were donated. But being part of a "very old family... very... well respected" is a good, good thing when it comes to those schools. You seem to have donated quite a bit.

I don't have any idea about Midwestern Us. One thing to consider is that you actually have to live there (and spend the coldest part of the year there) for 4 years. It would've been way too cold for me, at least. Of course the private schools pay more in financial aid, they're not responsible to the taxpayers.

The house in Cambridge seems like a simple thing: If you already own the house, and it is vacant, then of course you should rent rooms. If you don't, and you can expect to recoup your costs, then also do it. If you don't have an expected value above 0, don't.

[Pocketa]

You have a good college counselor.

Actually colleges care a lot about athletics, but only if you're good enough to play for one of their teams. Otherwise, she's right. Community service is the new cool thing, but it's not going to get you anywhere on its own. Coupled with good grades, it makes you somewhat different, but a lot of prep schools are on this curve with you, mine required 100 hours of community service because they knew it got you into better colleges.

Yes, legacy absolutely counts in the Ivy League. But, you don't live in the area any more, and you didn't go to one of their preferred feeder schools. So that's not in your favor. It depends who your legacy is, whether it was like your great uncle twice removed, or your dad. Also matters how long it has been since those things were donated. But being part of a "very old family... very... well respected" is a good, good thing when it comes to those schools. You seem to have donated quite a bit.

I don't have any idea about Midwestern Us. One thing to consider is that you actually have to live there (and spend the coldest part of the year there) for 4 years. It would've been way too cold for me, at least. Of course the private schools pay more in financial aid, they're not responsible to the taxpayers.

The house in Cambridge seems like a simple thing: If you already own the house, and it is vacant, then of course you should rent rooms. If you don't, and you can expect to recoup your costs, then also do it. If you don't have an expected value above 0, don't.

I'm going to work on getting published in addition to the CS then. Apparently being published is even bigger now.

Most common to least common, in what I see people pushing on College Confidential's chancing threads:

Minority (50% seeing as half the world is female, so not a minority technically)
Clubs
GPA/Scores/Numbers
Arts
Athletics
Community Service
Contests
Publication

I can claim all but the arts and athletics, and scores may be somewhat A- rather than A+ if they were scaled to a grade scale. Getting published is pretty rare so I guess I'd have to get published more. Only been in 2 papers, but I was just mentioned in a foreign publication, so I guess I should write a book. Maybe a coloring book (seriously).

Yeah, the Legacy was pretty big, as is the prestige behind the legacy. Some of my Legacy with prestige was accepted as Legacy, possibly.

I visited parts of the midwest over the summer and I personally love Missouri although, I'm going to sound really dumb, I hate what the humidity does to my hair. I live in a dry part of the West Coast, and it's never very humid, but in Missouri, it makes my hair fly around. Everyone else from the area had very nice hair though, so I guess that'd fix itself over time. I just hate it getting in my eyes. Also, California barely has weather. We either have heat or fog or smog, depending on what part you live in. Or beach.

I think the house in the area would be good to rent out because personally, I'd prefer to live on campus and not as somebody's landlord, and I'd love the play money, I mean, uh, I'd invest it in a savings fund. But no, seriously, probably I'd use $100 of mad money from the rent every month, send the rest home or to a savings fund. My family pools their cash, if that sounds weird.

BTW, love the signature.


- Not really, but it can, depends on the situation (aka how close you are to getting in when compared to someone else, it can help push you ahead in the ranking)
- Again, depends on the situation. Donating buildings and being a legacy couldn't hurt, but I'm not so keen on the whole Ivy League business, so I don't know. My impression is that it helps, but not as much as it used to.
- Most likely. If a school wants you to go there (if you have higher ratings than the average) they may be more likely to give you more money. I have a friend who turned down Berkeley last year for UC San Diego because they gave him a spot in their special honors program and a lot of money, where he'd receive more attention from teachers than at Berkeley. That's not always the case though, but the lower-level schools are definitely more likely to give you larger amounts of money to attend.

That's interesting. I actually take a class at Cal (location revealed!) through my school and yeah, I can see that the classes are a lot less person. UCSD is doing a lot of good stuff with research and Cal is a great school, but if you want hands-on personal classes, the smaller UC's are the way to go. UCI is even a bit large now (I think). UCR is the least popular (besides Merced) but students constantly get their names on papers and their science related departments are doing quite well. Nobel Prize in Chemistry, 2006, I believe? I'm going to apply to Cal, but it's definitely not my first choice seeing as I live too close for comfort and college is the time I should leave the nest.

[Vaynor]

That's interesting. I actually take a class at Cal (location revealed!) through my school and yeah, I can see that the classes are a lot less person. UCSD is doing a lot of good stuff with research and Cal is a great school, but if you want hands-on personal classes, the smaller UC's are the way to go. UCI is even a bit large now (I think). UCR is the least popular (besides Merced) but students constantly get their names on papers and their science related departments are doing quite well. Nobel Prize in Chemistry, 2006, I believe? I'm going to apply to Cal, but it's definitely not my first choice seeing as I live too close for comfort and college is the time I should leave the nest.

Exactly. Basically, you have to choose whether the more prestigious school (and hopefully accompanied more prestigious better teachers/materials/resources) is worth losing the individual attention you might get at a smaller college. That, and even if you might get into a more prestigious college (as it was in the example I stated) you might prefer a lower level college based on monetary benefits, individual attention, and specific programs that one college might specialize in over the other. Sorry, that was kind of garbled, but you get the idea.

[Firestar27]

Honestly, I think you're fine. You're saying things like "Ok, I'm already doing amazing, let's see if I can win the Nobel Peace Prize in a few months. Will the colleges like that?" Geez, just do well, keep track of what you've done. Remember, anything you've done matters. However, you don't need to go absolutely insane over college. Just make sure that you go (and I suppose, get into) a place that is right for you and that you will enjoy, and not a place that just happens to be "known" for being good (although it certainly doesn't hurt :smalltongue:).
Good luck. :smallsmile:

[toasty]

[quote]Exactly. Basically, you have to choose whether the more prestigious school (and hopefully accompanied more prestigious better teachers/materials/resources) is worth losing the individual attention you might get at a smaller college. That, and even if you might get into a more prestigious college (as it was in the example I stated) you might prefer a lower level college based on monetary benefits, individual attention, and specific programs that one college might specialize in over the other. Sorry, that was kind of garbled, but you get the idea.[quote]

There are good small schools you know... the University of Chicago has struck me as an amazing school, but its supposed to have small class sizes.

@OP: You know what... you probably have better stuff than I do. :smalltongue: I did fine by the way, got into the university I wanted, have a good shot at getting into the honors program, I'm happy. I mean, really, unless you are aiming for like... Harvard (which it seems you are.... but anyways) then you should be fine. And I personally think Harvard is probably overrated.

[ForzaFiori]

Honestly, I think you're fine. You're saying things like "Ok, I'm already doing amazing, let's see if I can win the Nobel Peace Prize in a few months. Will the colleges like that?" Geez, just do well, keep track of what you've done. Remember, anything you've done matters. However, you don't need to go absolutely insane over college. Just make sure that you go (and I suppose, get into) a place that is right for you and that you will enjoy, and not a place that just happens to be "known" for being good (although it certainly doesn't hurt :smalltongue:).
Good luck. :smallsmile:

Not always true. I thought I was doing fine (I had most of the stuff on that list, and the scores and stuff were amazing compared to my school) and Vanderbilt shot me down. If your looking at an Ivy school, u need to work in all you can get. Don't kill yourself over it, but if its a choice of doing something for college of sitting around, don't rest on your laurels till you get in.

[snoopy13a]

1) Community Service absolutely helps.

2) Legacy also helps but it also depends on how strong your legacy is. There are basically three types:
a) son/daughter of famous (Harvard*) alums such as Al Gore III
b) son/daughter of alum who has given tons of money to the school
c) son/daughter of other alumni

A+B are pretty much shoo-ins. I think the Cs get an edge over non-legacies when it comes to tie breakers between applicants. For example, if a non-legacy and legacy both have a 4.0 GPA, 1550 SATs, similiar activities, etc, then the legacy will get admitted.

*It's pretty much clear you're talking about Harvard here. I don't like Harvard very much and I remember we used to throw fish at their hockey team :smalltongue:

3) Yes and no. A less rigorous school might give you more financial aid and perhaps even a full scholarship. However, Harvard, Yale and Princeton give out the most "need-blind" aid (those three are richer than the other Ivies and give out more "need-bind" aid than the other 5). Whether or not you'll get financial aid (and how much) from those schools depends on your parents' income. So, if your parents are wealthy, you'd probably have to pay the full tuition at Harvard but could get academic scholarships at another school. If your parents are poor, Harvard would give a grant which would cover nearly all costs and thus would be more than other schools. Middle class people tend to get nice financial aid packages at Ivy League schools.

Since you do other stuff, you probably don't have to do a sport but I'd recommend track or cross country if you want to pad your application. Running is fun and it can be a life-long activity.

As for school reputation, that is the most important thing. Arguing whether Harvard is overrated doesn't make sense because when it comes to a school's reputation, appearance is reality. Going to Harvard will open doors. You will be essentially guaranteed either a good job or admittance to medical school, or a top law school or grad program upon graduation. You can be just as successful going to another school but there is more pressure to work harder and get great grades in undergrad.

[jlvm4]

I'm sorry I ask so many.


Does community service still matter? Turns out I do 120 hrs/year helping the elderly, and I have since 7th grade. I also read to kids for 2 hrs/week and help disadvantaged teenagers for 6-8 hrs/week. Is that enough? Someone said it was overkill, but it's also the girl that said the thing about National Merit, so her opinion is nill in this situation.
Does legacy matter? Turns out my family has an herbarium and 2 libraries at a certain Ivy and I'd like to know if that'd help.
Will applying to schools that usually accept students with a less rigorous transcript (scores, GPA, etc.) help me get more financial aid from the school, even if it's an out-of-state school?


For the top two, if you've got them, why not mention them. It can't hurt. As for the last, financial aid varies by school (usually based on their budget and things like endowment size), and as far as I know does not depend on grades or scores of any kind. Aid is based on your, and depending on your age, your parents' income and assets.

So what it comes down to is that you need to pick a college that best fits you. Does it have the program you want to study at a quality level you would be willing to pay for? Because that's essentially what you are doing. You wouldn't buy a car or a house without doing careful research to match what you need and can afford with the options out there. With luck, you will find someplace that fits you pretty well.

That being said, if given the choice (and no other constraints like you can't afford it) I would go for the school with the better reputation as a whole. Puxatawny U might have a great Natural Resources program, but so does Cornell and a degree from Cornell would carry more weight in the outside world where sometimes 'name' does matter.

Good Luck

[jlvm4]

Next question:

If one has the funds to do so, does it makes sense to buy a house in Cambridge? Or use one the family owns? Because it's a big house, and I could rent out the rooms to pay the mortgage and my own living costs.

(Just because my family never sells property, they keep it in the family because they like certain areas. Alot.)

If you can, I would try to pay your own way. If tuition is covered, by folks or financial aid, then I would try to meet everything else without family help. Mostly because you will need to eventually, and your current situation (such as having the house available) provides a safety net for you to learn in.

Get the hang of paying your bill in full and on time and living off a monthly budget. Heck, pay your folks rent to live in their house (they'll probably think it's cute), if it seems wasteful not to use the resources available. The key is to get practice doing adult things. Taxes, finding money for food, having a job, etc is all something you're going to have to do anyway sometime. I think making enough money to cover your living expenses won't interfere too much with your studies, and if it did, you could always pull back and use the rent-free living.

Seriously, I had friends who lived in on-campus housing and their folks covered everything and once they got out on their own had no idea how to do it. They learned the hard way, with credit card debt, moving back home, etc. So try it now, while you can get your feet under you in relative safety.

[Pocketa]

Exactly. Basically, you have to choose whether the more prestigious school (and hopefully accompanied more prestigious better teachers/materials/resources) is worth losing the individual attention you might get at a smaller college. That, and even if you might get into a more prestigious college (as it was in the example I stated) you might prefer a lower level college based on monetary benefits, individual attention, and specific programs that one college might specialize in over the other. Sorry, that was kind of garbled, but you get the idea.

This is a good point, because Cal hasn't produced a ton as of late, wheras the other UCs have. Including WoW, I believe. And the college I'm looking into hasn't had any grads that I particularly admire as of late either. I like the campus and the curriculum, but it's not my grandfather's college any more. It's changed a lot.


[quote]Exactly. Basically, you have to choose whether the more prestigious school (and hopefully accompanied more prestigious better teachers/materials/resources) is worth losing the individual attention you might get at a smaller college. That, and even if you might get into a more prestigious college (as it was in the example I stated) you might prefer a lower level college based on monetary benefits, individual attention, and specific programs that one college might specialize in over the other. Sorry, that was kind of garbled, but you get the idea.[quote]

There are good small schools you know... the University of Chicago has struck me as an amazing school, but its supposed to have small class sizes.

@OP: You know what... you probably have better stuff than I do. :smalltongue: I did fine by the way, got into the university I wanted, have a good shot at getting into the honors program, I'm happy. I mean, really, unless you are aiming for like... Harvard (which it seems you are.... but anyways) then you should be fine. And I personally think Harvard is probably overrated.

Why does everyone assume it's Harvard out of all the Ivy's!?

Also, UoC is great, library is great, they just don't offer the environment or majors I'm looking for.

Environment: If coastal, a college town or rural.
If midwest, rural outskirts of a city.

Majors: Engineering, science, math, in that order. And yes, I have deeper tracks within those fields I'd specialize in.

Also, Harvard's acceptance rate jumps to 40% for the 12% of students that apply that are also legacy kids. So it's not entirely impossible to get into, but there are definitely some differences in the admissions process depending on legacy, which may or may not be fair, depending on how you look at it, and that's not what the threads about it, but the stats change from 7% to 40% is a huge jump.


If you can, I would try to pay your own way. If tuition is covered, by folks or financial aid, then I would try to meet everything else without family help. Mostly because you will need to eventually, and your current situation (such as having the house available) provides a safety net for you to learn in.

Get the hang of paying your bill in full and on time and living off a monthly budget. Heck, pay your folks rent to live in their house (they'll probably think it's cute), if it seems wasteful not to use the resources available. The key is to get practice doing adult things. Taxes, finding money for food, having a job, etc is all something you're going to have to do anyway sometime. I think making enough money to cover your living expenses won't interfere too much with your studies, and if it did, you could always pull back and use the rent-free living.

Seriously, I had friends who lived in on-campus housing and their folks covered everything and once they got out on their own had no idea how to do it. They learned the hard way, with credit card debt, moving back home, etc. So try it now, while you can get your feet under you in relative safety.

Well, my family'd still live on the West Coast. I'd be going East, but if financial aid covers a dorm, that'd be swell. I know how to manage resource and cash, my parents made sure of that a while ago, as well as how to rent out a house (PROTIP: use agency). So that's solved. Also, I only use cash and a checking account will be added when I get older. Credit cards are messy, and debit cards have hidden problems (buying gas, for one thing).

[Cyrion]

People are assuming Harvard because you mentioned renting the house in Cambridge, and that makes it pretty likely that you're either looking at Harvard or MIT.

Think carefully about what you're looking for when you choose the school, especially regarding reputation and opportunity. Harvard (just as an example to pick on) has a great reputation overall and carries a lot of ponderous weight. However, for actual results, don't overlook small schools. I went to Drew (a not-quite-Ivy). It's a small school that only has graduate programs in theology and the divinities. However, my chemistry professors still wanted to teach and do the cool stuff. Without grad students, guess who got to learn and do the cool stuff with them... I was two years into the UC Davis graduate program in chemistry before I ran into material that I hadn't had some exposure to.

Also, make sure you do your research for your financial aid. Drew has the Drew Scholars Program- anyone placing in either the top 2% of their graduating high school class or #1 or #2 in the case of smaller classes gets a merit scholarship. In my day it was $12k per year, nearly a full ride. Get in touch with the financial aid offices for the schools you might be interested in and find out for sure what they might offer.

Another issue to weigh is what field you want to go into and whether you need a graduate degree. The name on your terminal degree is the most important. As a personal preference, I'd go to a school with a good name but small classes as an undergraduate and then go for the large school with the large name for a graduate degree. Having taught at both large and small schools, there's no substitute as an undergrad for the smaller classes. (Again, personally,) I'd lean toward the Drew-type schools of the world- which of the Ivies have small class sizes?- for undergrad and save the UCs etc. for graduate school.

[BRC]

1) I'm not a college counselor or admissions person, but I'm pretty sure it does. Community Service shows that you are socially conscious and driven, two things colleges want in their students.
2) Yes. At the very least, it certainly couldn't hurt.
3) Yes. Financial Aid is used to attract students. If a college knows that you could go to a better school, they will offer Financial Aid to try to get you to attend their school. Yes, even if it's out-of-state, especially if it's not a state school. Not-state colleges actually want people from out-of-state to attend because it makes their student body more diverse.

[Dr. Bath]

How the hell could a (private?) college survive when only 5% of the students pay anything at all? Are you sure you haven't got the percentages the wrong way round?

From what I've heard from friends in the states before, even public uni's are fairly exorbitant in their pricing and Ivy league fees are astronomically high.

[jlvm4]

So that's solved. Also, I only use cash and a checking account will be added when I get older. Credit cards are messy, and debit cards have hidden problems (buying gas, for one thing).

On an entirely separate issue, you should get a credit card and use it properly. It helps to build up your credit record, something you will need going forward. If you start a long history of using the card and paying it off in full every month now, it pays off later when you want a mortgage of your own, etc. Not saying you need to go crazy, but buying Pizza on gaming nights, or some such, with the card and then paying off the low balance scrupulously has benefits and won't get too messy.

[Mando Knight]

Also, colleges in the midwest are looking for more out of state students because apparently it gives them more funding, somehow? Especially because there seem to be more minorities near the coasts, and that counts for diversity, and thus being half Asian and fully female will help, and because less students apply to midwestern U's, they've got more financial aid money available due to having such high acceptance rates, especially for merit based aid for out of state students. Plus, low cost of living (unrelated) doesn't hurt.

...You're open to a Midwest school? And you're looking for a science or engineering degree? Missouri S&T (http://mst.edu/) is a good school...

I don't have any idea about Midwestern Us. One thing to consider is that you actually have to live there (and spend the coldest part of the year there) for 4 years. It would've been way too cold for me, at least.
Winter here isn't too bad at all, really. That is, if you don't mind it being freezing one day and spring-like the next.

I visited parts of the midwest over the summer and I personally love Missouri although, I'm going to sound really dumb, I hate what the humidity does to my hair. I live in a dry part of the West Coast, and it's never very humid, but in Missouri, it makes my hair fly around. Everyone else from the area had very nice hair though, so I guess that'd fix itself over time. I just hate it getting in my eyes. Also, California barely has weather. We either have heat or fog or smog, depending on what part you live in. Or beach.
It's not always really humid here, either. Just usually over the summer. And even then that's actually just interspersed with dry heat, actual rain, and mild temperatures. Missouri weather is a touch chaotic at times.
Youshouldcomehereyou'rereallycuteand soundlikeyou'realsoreallysmartand...

[Vaynor]

On an entirely separate issue, you should get a credit card and use it properly. It helps to build up your credit record, something you will need going forward. If you start a long history of using the card and paying it off in full every month now, it pays off later when you want a mortgage of your own, etc. Not saying you need to go crazy, but buying Pizza on gaming nights, or some such, with the card and then paying off the low balance scrupulously has benefits and won't get too messy.

This. You need to build up your credit score to get a good loan for houses, cars, and other big purchases. Trick is to only buy things with money you actually have, and pay it off immediately. By making payments regularly and on time, your credit score improves.


How the hell could a (private?) college survive when only 5% of the students pay anything at all? Are you sure you haven't got the percentages the wrong way round?

From what I've heard from friends in the states before, even public uni's are fairly exorbitant in their pricing and Ivy league fees are astronomically high.

I'm fairly certain that information is inaccurate. Colleges fluff those numbers by giving most students a tiny bit of money, and say that they help almost all of their students, when really only a smaller portion actually receive enough for a full ride (usually due to extraordinary academics or being on a sports team). 5% of students pay the full amount, and most of the rest pay almost the full amount. It's all to improve their image.

[BRC]

I don't have any idea about Midwestern Us. One thing to consider is that you actually have to live there (and spend the coldest part of the year there) for 4 years. It would've been way too cold for me, at least. Of course the private schools pay more in financial aid, they're not responsible to the taxpayers.

As somebody who lived for almost 19 years in Saint Louis, it's not that bad. You get lots of extremes, It's very hot in the summer, and it can get cold in the winter, but it's not some sort of frozen hellscape. Learn to wear sweaters and you should be fine all winter.

[WalkingTarget]

As somebody who lived for almost 19 years in Saint Louis, it's not that bad. You get lots of extremes, It's very hot in the summer, and it can get cold in the winter, but it's not some sort of frozen hellscape. Learn to wear sweaters and you should be fine all winter.

Yeah, "the midwest" is pretty varied. I'm from a bit farther north than BRC here, but it's not that bad.

[BRC]

Yeah, "the midwest" is pretty varied. I'm from a bit farther north than BRC here, but it's not that bad.
Yeah
The thing about the Midwest (or at least the bit I'm from) is that we have extremes. Our summers are Hot, so people north of us assume we are like Florida (I'm going to college in Upstate new york, and when I say where I'm from it's not uncommon for people to respond "Do you get snow there?"). We have cold winters so people south of us assume that we are like Minnesota.
In fact, all it means is that we are capable of surviving in more climates than most, aiding our slow takeover of the world.

[snoopy13a]

How the hell could a (private?) college survive when only 5% of the students pay anything at all? Are you sure you haven't got the percentages the wrong way round?



Harvard has a $25 billion or so endowment (it used to be around $36 billion, they lost $12 billion in the recession :smalleek: ). That's why they can afford to give grants. They could theorectically have all undergrads go for free but I believe they have rich students pay.

A conservative 4% yearly return on $25 billion is $1 billion. Harvard has so much money it's sick.

To the OP: I assumed Harvard from the Cambridge statement.

To other posters: MIT is not an Ivy League school although it does have an equal or better reputation than all of the schools in the Ivies. The Ivy League was formed as a lousy football conference. The eight members are Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Pennsylvania, Princeton, and Yale.

Harvard, Princeton and Yale have a superior reputation compared with the others.

[Syka]

Agreed on the 5% paying full amount thing. I go to a private school, a graduate program, and while most of us don't pay much/if at all out of pocket, we're either paying something or someone else is. In my case I pay 10%+taxes (taxed as income). Two of my friends are here because of the army. Several belong to organizations who have a close relationship with the school- but I guarantee those companies are paying.

Most get SOME form of aid; but most also pay something.


That said, community services helps IN ADDITION TO grades and extracurriculars. If it's just CS, it won't work; but it can tip the scale in your favor.

I know nothing about legacies. I'm actually a legacy at the school I'm at now, but I think being the child of an employee helped more than being a legacy (one parent attended the school before I was born; the other now works here for unrelated stuff). As for Ivies....eh. It CAN help open doors, but the studies which said Ivy League graduates make more than their peers are bunk, apparently. I saw some stuff recently that suggests that those who were similar in all ways EXCEPT being accepted to an Ivy (like, they applied and were rejected) made the same amount of money, regardless of school. It was ambition, not institution, that made the people.

My advice on money is to go to the best school that you can afford. I got accepted at Rutgers, which is termed a public Ivy, but I opted to go to an in-state school that also has a pretty darn good reputation. It came down to the fact that I'd be at least 50k in debt if I went to Rutgers (I would have gotten very little financial assistance), but by going to the in-state school, I graduated debt free due to a combination of scholarships and grants I got. I got an equivalent education (my alma mater is pretty well ranked, only a bit below Rutgers) without indebting myself.

[SurlySeraph]

Community service is very helpful. And colleges like to see that you're committed to something; doing a lot on one community service project is better than low-level membership in a bunch of clubs. Writing your essay about it might be a good idea.
Legacy is helpful, but it's effects are often overstated. My mother and grandfather went to my college, I had extremely good standardized test scores and great grades, and I barely got in.
Where else you're applying usually doesn't have that much effect on financial aid, though you can call the financial aid office and note what you're being offered elsewhere. With that said, most of the Ivy League has pretty generous financial aid. Almost everyone can get some.


If one has the funds to do so, does it makes sense to buy a house in Cambridge? Or use one the family owns? Because it's a big house, and I could rent out the rooms to pay the mortgage and my own living costs.

(Just because my family never sells property, they keep it in the family because they like certain areas. Alot.)

Speaking as a Harvard student: no, it doesn't make sense. The dorms are great and if you live off-campus you'll never meet anyone. Plus doing so might reduce the amount of financial aid you're eligible for. However, renting it out might be worthwhile.

If you're talking about a non-Harvard Ivy (which I doubt :smalltongue:), it might make sense. Look at each school's financial aid policies individually. Or have your parents do it, since they probably know more about finances than you.

[skywalker]

How the hell could a (private?) college survive when only 5% of the students pay anything at all? Are you sure you haven't got the percentages the wrong way round?

As was said, they get lots of donations.

They can also afford to give need-blind aid, which public schools cannot do. The way it typically works out is that at private schools, a few pay none, a lot pay some, and even fewer pay all. At public schools, this is contrasted (generally) by a few paying none, and most paying all.


Yeah
The thing about the Midwest (or at least the bit I'm from) is that we have extremes. Our summers are Hot, so people north of us assume we are like Florida (I'm going to college in Upstate new york, and when I say where I'm from it's not uncommon for people to respond "Do you get snow there?"). We have cold winters so people south of us assume that we are like Minnesota.
In fact, all it means is that we are capable of surviving in more climates than most, aiding our slow takeover of the world.

You mention a couple of pertinent things: Yes, Missouri weather isn't that bad. But Minnesota is. Missouri is one of the last states I think of when someone says "Midwest." Midwest evokes images of Ohio, Michigan, and lots and lots of snow.

Also keep in mind, Tennessee summers sometimes don't get hot enough for me. :smallamused:

EDIT:
To other posters: MIT is not an Ivy League school although it does have an equal or better reputation than all of the schools in the Ivies. The Ivy League was formed as a lousy football conference. The eight members are Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Pennsylvania, Princeton, and Yale.

Harvard, Princeton and Yale have a superior reputation compared with the others.

This is a recent feature of our newer, more merit-based method of evaluating people.

As an easy example, George Bush made mediocre grades at Yale, but that wasn't really important. What was important were the social connections he made, being in the right secret society, etc. That would not be the case in today's world. The Ivies have lost some prestige recently as the network has really become much less useful, no matter what path you choose in life.

[Mando Knight]

Missouri is one of the last states I think of when someone says "Midwest." Midwest evokes images of Ohio, Michigan, and lots and lots of snow.

For you, maybe. The Midwestern US generally means from Ohio to Nebraska, with Missouri, Illinois, and Kansas on the southern edge and the Dakotas and Minnesota on the north. If you want to define the Midwest by a single state, go with Iowa, which is a colder Missouri that lacks Cardinals baseball. :smalltongue:

[SurlySeraph]

That's not true. Missouri has terrain features other than corn.

[snoopy13a]

That's not true. Missouri has terrain features other than corn.

Yeah, the Mississippi river :smalltongue:

So that's two :smallbiggrin:

Washington University in St. Louis is a very good college, if one wants to go to school in Missouri.

As for the premier colleges/universities in the US for undergrads, I'd go with (in alphabetical order):
Amherst, Caltech, Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Stanford, Williams, and Yale.

There are some major differences. Caltech and MIT are primarily engineering schools (although MIT has an outstanding very good biology program among others), Amherst and Williams are small liberal arts colleges and the rest are large research universities.

[BRC]

Yeah, the Mississippi river :smalltongue:

Also, Soybeans, upside down metal U's, and A hill.

[Pocketa]

...You're open to a Midwest school? And you're looking for a science or engineering degree? Missouri S&T (http://mst.edu/) is a good school...

Winter here isn't too bad at all, really. That is, if you don't mind it being freezing one day and spring-like the next.

It's not always really humid here, either. Just usually over the summer. And even then that's actually just interspersed with dry heat, actual rain, and mild temperatures. Missouri weather is a touch chaotic at times.
Youshouldcomehereyou'rereallycuteand soundlikeyou'realsoreallysmartand...

I went to MUST over the summer, for Jackling Intro to Engineering, and loved it. Some of my camps friends (seniors) have already been accepted. Missouri is a beautiful state, but the weather! I sort of want to go to a school in a state with predictable weather because the Bay Area weather varies a ton.

HowwouldyouknowthatIwasreallycute?

I do have grades and extracurriculars.


Also, just for fact's sake, this is what I'm considering:

Harvard, Dartmouth, possibly Princeton - Reach, and I picked them due to the presence of an engineering department. Mechanical engineering please.
Missouri ST - Safety
UC Riverside - Safety
CSU Long Beach - Safety
UC Irvine/Davis - Target
UC Berkeley - Reach
Mills College/Cottie College/Wellsley - Target/Safety/Reach
University of North Dakota, University of Tulsa - Safety
MIT/CalTech - Reach, and they do not like legacy.


West - West Coast, states touching the Pacific
East - East Coast, 13 colonies
South - Everything south of the colonies touching the Atlantic Ocean
North - Everything touching Canada
Midwest - Every other state except Hawaii/Alaska

[toasty]

That's a lot of schools... 0_0

When I applied to College I filled out 3 applications... and got accepted to all...

[THAC0]

That's a lot of schools... 0_0

When I applied to College I filled out 3 applications... and got accepted to all...

I did three as well, but if you're applying to a lot of reach schools, which many of those can be considered, having a long list isn't a bad thing.

[Cyrion]

If you're looking at mechanical engineering and looking for reputation, also take a look at the University of Wyoming. I don't know their current status, but they used to be one of THE schools in engineering. Better in the field than the Ivies. Since I'm not an engineer, I haven't kept up with it, so definitely get the current scoop.

[Vaynor]

Also, just for fact's sake, this is what I'm considering:

Harvard, Dartmouth, possibly Princeton - Reach, and I picked them due to the presence of an engineering department. Mechanical engineering please.
Missouri ST - Safety
UC Riverside - Safety
CSU Long Beach - Safety
UC Irvine/Davis - Target
UC Berkeley - Reach
Mills College/Cottie College/Wellsley - Target/Safety/Reach
University of North Dakota, University of Tulsa - Safety
MIT/CalTech - Reach, and they do not like legacy.


Cool, I've applied to Davis as well (along with UCSB (reach), UCSD (reach), UCSC (target), Cal Poly SLO (target, I'm surprised you didn't apply here, SLO has an amazing engineering program), and SFSU (safety)). Oh, and I just got into Merced (safety), if that counts for anything. :smalltongue:

Waiting for results is the worst. :smallfrown:

[Erloas]

If you're looking at mechanical engineering and looking for reputation, also take a look at the University of Wyoming. I don't know their current status, but they used to be one of THE schools in engineering. Better in the field than the Ivies. Since I'm not an engineer, I haven't kept up with it, so definitely get the current scoop.

I wouldn't be surprised if the University of Wyoming had a great engineering department because its a huge energy and industrial state, but I didn't go there so I really couldn't say. However, having lived most of my life in Wyoming, I don't think I've meet anyone that really likes Laramie. Wyoming is also not known for its good weather, especially not perdicatable. Well, you can perdict it will be cold and windy and cold some more and the interstate will be closed fairly regularly durning the winter.

Well my cousin did go to the automotive school in Laramie for a couple years (one of the best in the country last time I heard) and he said the only person that liked Laramie was someone from Mississippi, which is why he didn't accept going into the BMW (I think, one of the luxury car companies) automotive school, because it was in Mississippi.


If I were going for engineering I would probably try for MIT. (well I kind of did go into engineering, but I really didn't research or try to get into any high end college after high school.)

[snoopy13a]

I went to MUST over the summer, for Jackling Intro to Engineering, and loved it. Some of my camps friends (seniors) have already been accepted. Missouri is a beautiful state, but the weather! I sort of want to go to a school in a state with predictable weather because the Bay Area weather varies a ton.

HowwouldyouknowthatIwasreallycute?

I do have grades and extracurriculars.


Also, just for fact's sake, this is what I'm considering:
[LIST]
Harvard, Dartmouth, possibly Princeton - Reach, and I picked them due to the presence of an engineering department. Mechanical engineering please.


Dartmouth has engineering but if you want to pick engineering at an Ivy League school I'd suggest Princeton or Cornell.

[Mando Knight]

I went to MUST over the summer, for Jackling Intro to Engineering, and loved it. Some of my camps friends (seniors) have already been accepted. Missouri is a beautiful state, but the weather! I sort of want to go to a school in a state with predictable weather because the Bay Area weather varies a ton.

HowwouldyouknowthatIwasreallycute?

I do have grades and extracurriculars.


Also, just for fact's sake, this is what I'm considering:

Harvard, Dartmouth, possibly Princeton - Reach, and I picked them due to the presence of an engineering department. Mechanical engineering please.
Missouri ST - Safety
UC Riverside - Safety
CSU Long Beach - Safety
UC Irvine/Davis - Target
UC Berkeley - Reach
Mills College/Cottie College/Wellsley - Target/Safety/Reach
University of North Dakota, University of Tulsa - Safety
MIT/CalTech - Reach, and they do not like legacy.

YoupostpicturesontheYou!Thread...
I guarantee you that whenever you complain about the weather being varied, someone else from another state will retort that their state is worse. :smalltongue: Your best bets for consistent weather are probably either up north where the seasons are cold and not-as-cold, or somewhere along the coasts closer to the equator...

Missouri's variance in the weather isn't a bad one, though. Other than a few occasional storms, the precipitation isn't bad, and spring and fall tend to stay warm-ish. When it gets wacky is in winter, but that's actually fine by me since the wackiness serves mostly to warm things back up...

That's not true. Missouri has terrain features other than corn.
You're right. I'm sorry, I forgot that Iowa really was fifty-six thousand square miles of cornfields. I guess I remembered Des Moines and forgot the majority of the state. Sorry, Iowa, I should know better than that... but at least Des Moines is the state capital *glares at Chicago*... :smalltongue:

[BRC]

\ weather because the Bay Area weather varies a ton.

This goes against everything I have ever heard about the Bay area.

[Vaynor]

This goes against everything I have ever heard about the Bay area.

Yeah, the Bay area is known for its weather not varying much. I think you've been spoiled with awesome California weather. :smalltongue:

[skywalker]

HowwouldyouknowthatIwasreallycute?

I'd like to direct you to your avatar. It is directly to the left of every post you make.



South - Everything south of the colonies touching the Atlantic Ocean


So, uh... Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Texas?

Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia are all firmly considered Southern... And were also British Colonies.

Not to mention, your cunning scheme seems to group Arizona and Tennessee into the "Midwest."

[Pocketa]

Cool, I've applied to Davis as well (along with UCSB (reach), UCSD (reach), UCSC (target), Cal Poly SLO (target, I'm surprised you didn't apply here, SLO has an amazing engineering program), and SFSU (safety)). Oh, and I just got into Merced (safety), if that counts for anything. :smalltongue:

Waiting for results is the worst. :smallfrown:

CSU SLO has an amazing program, and I'm still trying to figure out what safeties/targets I'll apply to. And CSU SLO is not! an easy school to get into.

[Vaynor]

CSU SLO has an amazing program, and I'm still trying to figure out what safeties/targets I'll apply to. And CSU SLO is not! an easy school to get into.

Well, it's definitely the hardest Cal State to get into, but Cal Poly isn't that difficult, it just depends on your major (for the more competitive majors at Cal Poly, like aeronautical engineering and architecture, it can be quite difficult). Also, they focus more on GPA than almost everything else, your SAT and other testing don't matter much there. I know some engineering programs are easier to get into, but I'm not sure which ones are easier and which ones are harder (except aeronautical, I know that's the hardest). I have a friend who just got into the aeronautical engineering program with a 3.8 GPA and and a 2250 SAT score, and he just barely got in (they had him wait listed for a while, even). I applied there as a Computer Science (BS) major, which, while they have a great Computer Science program, isn't terribly competitive, so I'm hopeful.

Edit: If it helps, I go to a school with an API rating of 10, he's Asian-American, and doesn't do much community service/clubs. He does take a lot of high-level AP courses, though.

[blackfox]

Pocketa, if you must live in Boston and do MechE, go to MIT. Compared to most of the other Ivies, Harvard is lousy for engineering. I'm in engineering, looked at both while in Boston. The other thing about Cornell and Colombia is that they're less of a reach than Harvard, although I guess you don't have the legacy going for you there. Dartmouth has a decent engineering program. The UC's hardly take any out-of-state students, so UC Davis might even be as much of a reach as the Ivies.

And re: weather... it's pretty predictable at Cornell. Gray and precipitating. I lurves it. :smallamused:

[Vaynor]

The UC's hardly take any out-of-state students, so UC Davis might even be as much of a reach as the Ivies.

I'm fairly certain she lives in California, so not much of a reach at all.

[Pocketa]

I'm fairly certain she lives in California, so not much of a reach at all.

Not too much of a reach, but it is a target.

How is Cal Poly Pomona?

[Vaynor]

Not too much of a reach, but it is a target.

How is Cal Poly Pomona?

Like the significantly less intelligent and uglier cousin of Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. I visited there about half a year ago (it's fairly close to where I live) and it wasn't exactly overwhelming. While Cal Poly SLO is definitely the best CSU on the market, Pomona... isn't. While I'm sure it's an ok school, but the area is pretty terrible (it's surrounded by ranches/farmland and the whole area smells a bit off, and then the surrounding urban area is basically dirty cement). Judging by the other schools you've listed, I wouldn't suggest applying there, a lot of other CSU's would be a better bet, especially SLO.

In other news, I didn't get into Cal Poly SLO (just found out today). Oh well.

[rakkoon]

Question (from a country where you get into any university you want without applying, which explains why many fail their first year and open a pub somewhere). This getting accepted, are there that many students that want to get into the same university or is it about grades, like 99% of our students graduate with honours?

[Vaynor]

Here's the statistics from one of the most applied to public universities here in California from last year.

UCLA:
http://img.skitch.com/20100226-ngtjxjcn5tirx2f34y6kqjqr7e.jpg

And then from UC Berkeley (another one that gets a lot of applications, these are the two best public schools in California):

http://img.skitch.com/20100226-85mmpa17biggt6d4y435e689k7.jpg

And the statistics from UC Irvine, which has higher admission rates and a large number of applicants:

http://img.skitch.com/20100226-th4m754g1ck3nswua3tjsx9cda.jpg

(I'm not biased towards California, the University of California just gets more applicants than almost any other college)

So to answer your question, yes, there are that many students applying to these universities, and it is also mostly based on academic performance and testing (GPA and SAT/ACT scores being the highest, with class rank, extracurriculars, sports, clubs, essays, etc. being secondary in most cases (but all schools differ in this regard)).

For example, in the case of UC Berkeley and UCLA, the most selective public schools in California, both require almost perfect grades, 95th percentile or above testing scores on the SAT or ACT, and usually a lot of extracurriculars/clubs/a sport, as well as a great personal statement (2 essays written for the UC application) and awards. Some students get in for less (based on extremely high test scores (i.e., a perfect score) or for athletic reasons (to play for the school's team)), but it's still hard.

[Cyrion]

The complicating issue of the argument is the public nature of the UC and CSU system. Both are required to accept a certain percentage of California high school applicants. When I was there, UC was required to take the top 25% or 28% of California applicants, and the CSUs were required to accept the top 30-something%.

I have no idea how they manage to balance their selectivity and required admissions- I wouldn't want to have to be the one responsible for that balancing act. I'd guess that most of the time it works out on its own, but I can see it going catastrophically wonky from time to time.