PDA

View Full Version : Evoked Illusion (3.5 Spell - PEACH)



Lysander
2010-02-22, 04:20 PM
Evoked Illusion
Evocation [light] [sonic] [force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: See text
Effect: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: See text

By manipulating light to create images, sonic energy to create sound, and force to create tactile sensations you can copy any sorcerer/wizard illusion spell of 4th level or lower in the figment, glamer, or shadow subschools. The evoked illusion functions exactly like the spell it copies (including allowing the same saving throws and spell resistance), except it is less convincing and allows a DC10 + caster level spot and/or listen check to identify visual effects and auditory illusions as false. Illusions with both sights and sounds allow both checks. Spell effects that merely suppress or hide images and sounds rather than making new ones, such as with invisibility and silence, aren't subject to these checks. True Seeing, See Invisibility, and similar spells that pierce illusions also function against evoked illusions. An evoked illusion spell has the light, sonic, and force descriptors only if it uses that element in copying a spell.

DracoDei
2010-02-22, 05:05 PM
I will allow the balance-mongers to figure out if this should be 6th level, rather than 5th, but other than that, I love it.

DaTedinator
2010-02-22, 05:21 PM
I'd try to figure out something other than the spot/listen checks, or at least make them scale. As it is, I wouldn't use the spell for anything other than invisibility or whatnot, too easy to see through.

The concept, though is brilliant and I love it. I would consider (just consider) only letting it copy figments, though, just like shadow conjuration can only copy creations and summonings.

JoshuaZ
2010-02-22, 05:35 PM
Looks fine as 5th level (since Shadow Evocation is 5th level). This also does a good job of helping make evocation not the first school to be banned without thinking.

There's a weird thing I just thought of: Suppose I want to duplicate a low level illusion but I don't have it prepared. But wait! I've got Greater Shadow Evocation prepared. So I cast Greater Shadow Evocation to make an Evoked Illusion which duplicates the illusion I want. I don't think this is unbalanced (you get both a save and a spot check to realize the illusory nature) but it is weird.

Edit: Also I agree with DaTedinator that should probably only apply to figments since it doesn't make much sense for this to apply Patterns certainly although glamers are not intrinsically unreasonable. And if there are any low level shadow spells (I don't know of any off the top of my head but it wouldn't surprise me) it certainly shouldn't be able to duplicate those.

Lysander
2010-02-22, 06:05 PM
I'd try to figure out something other than the spot/listen checks, or at least make them scale. As it is, I wouldn't use the spell for anything other than invisibility or whatnot, too easy to see through.

The concept, though is brilliant and I love it. I would consider (just consider) only letting it copy figments, though, just like shadow conjuration can only copy creations and summonings.

What if the DC of the spot/listen check was 10 + caster level? Would that scale enough?


Looks fine as 5th level (since Shadow Evocation is 5th level). This also does a good job of helping make evocation not the first school to be banned without thinking.

There's a weird thing I just thought of: Suppose I want to duplicate a low level illusion but I don't have it prepared. But wait! I've got Greater Shadow Evocation prepared. So I cast Greater Shadow Evocation to make an Evoked Illusion which duplicates the illusion I want. I don't think this is unbalanced (you get both a save and a spot check to realize the illusory nature) but it is weird.

Seeing as your spending an 8th level spell to cast a 4th or lower spell it doesn't seem that overpowered. What really neat though is using Evoked Illusion to cast Shadow Conjuration :smallbiggrin:

JoshuaZ
2010-02-22, 06:14 PM
Seeing as your spending an 8th level spell to cast a 4th or lower spell it doesn't seem that overpowered. What really neat though is using Evoked Illusion to cast Shadow Conjuration :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, that drives home the edit I just made to my above remark since I forgot that Shadow Conjuration was only 4th level. This really should only work on figments and glamers. It doesn't make sense that this could duplicate a shadow based effect.

Lysander
2010-02-22, 06:24 PM
My reasoning is that any solid object usually made of shadow is instead made of force constructs. The question is whether that's balanced or not.

Roderick_BR
2010-02-22, 07:25 PM
Haha. I love it. I actually thought about making this sort of thing, since they made Shadow Evocation, that is just silly. They keep making evocation weaker and weaker and everything else be able to replace it, and still think it's the strongest school.

Yeah, the DC needs to scale more. It already wouldn't work well with patterns, I agree, so let's not nerf it much.

There'll have a Greater version, right?

lesser_minion
2010-02-22, 07:45 PM
Interestingly, most good evocations can't be duplicated - it's just that there aren't that many good evocations.

Still, I quite like this spell, although you're jumping into an arms race here.

Yuki Akuma
2010-02-22, 07:47 PM
Interestingly, most good evocations can't be duplicated - it's just that there aren't that many good evocations.

Still, I quite like this spell, although you're jumping into an arms race here.

All evocations can be duplicated with Shadow Illusion. :smallbiggrin:

lesser_minion
2010-02-22, 07:52 PM
All evocations can be duplicated with Shadow Illusion. :smallbiggrin:

Not true.

Shadow Wind Wall is completely ineffective, and Shadow Contingency automatically fails because you already have proof that it isn't real, so you automatically disbelieve it with no chance to relent on the save. Resilient Sphere can be duplicated in part, but no longer provides any protection and fails if you try to exploit the subject's immobilisation.