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Temotei
2010-02-25, 12:15 AM
I'm tired of the forum saying "grey" is spelled wrong. It's an old spelling, to be sure, but I prefer it.

Anyway, what alternate spellings do you prefer that aren't usually used?

Unusual topic, I know. :smallamused:

skywalker
2010-02-25, 12:18 AM
Grey is actually the preferred spelling across the pond.

I prefer to use "grey" to mean "gray that is more blue than usual," which for me translates to "much more pleasant than the usual gray."

But in reality, it's not an old spelling, it's still preferred in UK and the preferred spelling in some parts of this country.

Drakevarg
2010-02-25, 12:18 AM
I've noticed the different spellings for that myself, and honestly never knew which one was "correct." I always used grey though.

As for other unusual spellings... I dunno. There's "armor" vs "armour." I'm honestly not sure which I prefer, though being from the US of A, the former is technically correct.

ScottishDragon
2010-02-25, 12:25 AM
i like ketchup over catsup,because ketchup sounds better with it's K,and the flavor seems to mee more a K than a c
besides catsup is boring to spell.
i prefer grey over gray because grey is awesome.

The Demented One
2010-02-25, 12:26 AM
I prefer grey. In America!

Starfols
2010-02-25, 12:30 AM
I use gray, because Opera spellcheck highlights grey, and I'm a little OCD about that kind of thing.

Drakevarg
2010-02-25, 12:31 AM
i like ketchup over catsup,because ketchup sounds better with it's K,and the flavor seems to mee more a K than a c
besides catsup is boring to spell.
i prefer grey over gray because grey is awesome.

Wait, "catsup" is actually a word? I've always been convinced that it was an intentional misspelling whenever it was used...

Icewalker
2010-02-25, 12:45 AM
Armor/armour, color/colour, gray/grey, and all that other jazz, are all American vs. British English language differences, I believe.

Temotei
2010-02-25, 12:50 AM
I was taught that either grey or gray was fine, but pretty much everyone uses gray where I'm from. Weird.

Being American, I never spell armor with a "u," and the same goes for color.

Xyk
2010-02-25, 12:51 AM
Well, this being 'Merica, the greatest country on the planet, I prefer gray. The A in gray is for America. The E is for Europe.

Temotei
2010-02-25, 12:53 AM
Well, this being 'Merica, the greatest country on the planet, I prefer gray. The A in gray is for America. The E is for Europe.

:smallbiggrin:

Reinboom
2010-02-25, 02:00 AM
Armor... Armour... oh Armor oh Armour. Well, I don't arm our armer, nor do I precede to the 'or', so I say that the skola.. scholars wer..e fools with both their Frenchifying and their Latinifying ways. Personally, because I'm expected to spell one or the other, I will choose "armor". It saves document space from the need of a useless increase in vowels.

Incidentally, if you want to get into an argument between which "English" (Angleesh!) is oldest and greatest, well, does nobody else find it amusing that south-eastern American English (or, more specifically, Tangier island) is closest in probable form to Shakespearean English? :smalltongue:

That said...
I use grey.
I had no preference before, except that PhoeKun is very passionate about the use of grey over gray. And by extension, I came to habit of using it.

Coidzor
2010-02-25, 02:03 AM
You sure it's not your browser that says it's spelled wrong?

I use both spellings myself. I don't even know why both spellings aren't accepted both places.

Elder Tsofu
2010-02-25, 02:11 AM
Probably uses the US spell checker (standard). For me who use the UK its the other way around. :smallsmile:
(Generally prefer the British English)

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom
2010-02-25, 02:13 AM
It's gray, end of story, period. And anyone else who went to Ohio State will tell you the exact same thing,

Totally Guy
2010-02-25, 02:14 AM
You can't beat a good spelling manoeuvre.

toasty
2010-02-25, 02:32 AM
You can't beat a good spelling manoeuvre.

That's probably the only british spelling convention that really bothers me. That and tyre. Theatre, Armour, Colour, grey, I can stand them.... but manouevre is just ugly.

Dogmantra
2010-02-25, 02:33 AM
Incidentally, if you want to get into an argument between which "English" (Angleesh!) is oldest and greatest, well, does nobody else find it amusing that south-eastern American English (or, more specifically, Tangier island) is closest in probable form to Shakespearean English? :smalltongue:

I find it amusing that people complain about words such as "fall" and "aluminum" not being English, when the former was used for about a hundred years instead of "autumn" and the person who named aluminium decided himself to get rid of the second i.

Katana_Geldar
2010-02-25, 02:48 AM
I blame Webster for this sort of nonsense. I understand the preference for the word "jail" over "gaol" though, and that is as far as I will go.

The fan fics I write I use British English, and the Americans complain about them, but who cares>

Reinboom
2010-02-25, 02:54 AM
I blame Webster for this sort of nonsense. I understand the preference for the word "jail" over "gaol" though, and that is as far as I will go.

The fan fics I write I use British English, and the Americans complain about them, but who cares>

The debate is older than Webster you know...
The blame should be focused more towards various English scholars deciding the Latin was more proper and shifting everything to -or. Or the French Norman invaders into England and the leading French dominance causing everything to shift back to -our.

Webster just chose a side.

PhoeKun
2010-02-25, 02:58 AM
Webster just chose a side.

And he chose the side most Americans were trending towards, anyway. It's a difference in culture and dialect, nothing more. These things develop out of different circumstances for various groups of people, and the subtle variations on pronunciation that arise from the accents created by the living conditions.

Of course, that's less fun than being nationalistic and smarmy, huh?

rakkoon
2010-02-25, 02:59 AM
Usually use the British spelling (Europe ya know) but American books and television are making everybody schizophrenic around here.
Who really writes programme even if you write synchronisation ?

Dogmantra
2010-02-25, 03:08 AM
Who really writes programme even if you write synchronisation ?

Phun Phact: As far as I'm aware, both program and programme are used in British English. At least... they are in the British English I use. The former being used for computer programs, and the latter being used for anything else that could be described as a programme.

Katana_Geldar
2010-02-25, 03:10 AM
I think you guys over use the "z"

"Thou whoreson zed! Thou unneccesary letter!"

llamamushroom
2010-02-25, 03:13 AM
As far as spelling goes, I'm a proper British English lad, except for gaol - jail is just so much neater.

If we extend this discussion to pronunciation, there, too, am I a good Englishman-who-has-never-been-to-England. Lieutenant will always be pronounced 'left-tenant' by me.


Wait, "catsup" is actually a word? I've always been convinced that it was an intentional misspelling whenever it was used...

Actually, catsup and ketchup are two different things - from memory, catsup doesn't need as much tomato in it.

Totally Guy
2010-02-25, 03:18 AM
Actually, catsup and ketchup are two different things - from memory, catsup doesn't need as much tomato in it.

Tomarto or Tomayto?

Katana_Geldar
2010-02-25, 03:20 AM
Let's call the whole thing off :smallwink:

Reinboom
2010-02-25, 03:21 AM
As far as spelling goes, I'm a proper British English lad, except for gaol - jail is just so much neater.

If we extend this discussion to pronunciation, there, too, am I a good Englishman-who-has-never-been-to-England. Lieutenant will always be pronounced 'left-tenant' by me.

For a French word, and in lieu of a tenant (place keeping, ahoy!), I have no idea why one would ever pronounce it leftenant. One certainly does not say "in lef of a tenant" in either dialect. :smallconfused:

Coidzor
2010-02-25, 03:23 AM
I'm not sure why, but I believe Leftenant is some kind of military joke.

Reinboom
2010-02-25, 03:24 AM
I'm not sure why, but I believe Leftenant is some kind of military joke.

Tom Clancy pokes fun at it, commonly. Perhaps that's why?
Or perhaps it was honest slang that caught on ("Hey, he's always on the lef' o'er there boys, we shoul' all jus' call him a leftenant!") . It would make more sense as to how it randomly transformed pronunciation with lieu being left alone.

Coidzor
2010-02-25, 03:24 AM
Tomarto or Tomayto?

ahh, Ahh, AHHH! AHHHHHHH!!! ...And there's no R in the word.


Tom Clancy pokes fun at it, commonly. Perhaps that's why?

Doubt it. I mean, he might have helped give it some more air time and popularity than it had been experiencing before him, but... As a progenitor, Tom Clancy seems a bit dubiously recent.

llamamushroom
2010-02-25, 03:27 AM
Tomarto or Tomayto?

Well, as it's obviously a disgusting American version of tomarto sauce, I'm going to go with tomayto.


For a French word, and in lieu of a tenant (place keeping, ahoy!), I have no idea why one would ever pronounce it leftenant. One certainly does not say "in lef of a tenant" in either dialect.

I have read a history of the word "lieutenant" (made specifically to address the pronunciation issue), and I think it had something to do with one mis-read French word on some document way back when. And, by the by, I'm fairly certain that lieutenant does not have any connection to "lieu" and "tenant" in their modern meanings.

Edit: Wikipedia to the rescue! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieutenant)

Katana_Geldar
2010-02-25, 03:33 AM
For a French word, and in lieu of a tenant (place keeping, ahoy!), I have no idea why one would ever pronounce it leftenant. One certainly does not say "in lef of a tenant" in either dialect. :smallconfused:

Maybe it's the whole anti-French of the English thing.

Totally Guy
2010-02-25, 03:35 AM
ahh, Ahh, AHHH! AHHHHHHH!!! ...And there's no R in the word.

Sure you're right, I'll rephase that.

Tomato or tomato?

Edit: :smalltongue::smallwink:

Reinboom
2010-02-25, 03:42 AM
Maybe it's the whole anti-French of the English thing.

..wa... wah?!
That just... that doesn't make any sense! I mean, if English was truly anti-French... then... we'd all be pronouncing things very heavily Germanic. :smalleek:


Sure you're right, I'll rephase that.

Tomato or tomato?

Edit: :smalltongue::smallwink:

I offer a friendly rebuttal:
Tomeowto!
http://pifro.com/tempmove/tamato.png

memnarch
2010-02-25, 03:44 AM
Grey and colour for me, just because I think they're cool. That's about it for what's different though for where I live.

Totally Guy
2010-02-25, 03:45 AM
I offer a friendly rebuttal:
Tomeowto!
http://pifro.com/tempmove/tamato.png

If only we could make a muffin out of that...

But something like that is strictly soup, sauce, salad territory.

Katana_Geldar
2010-02-25, 03:52 AM
..wa... wah?!
That just... that doesn't make any sense! I mean, if English was truly anti-French... then... we'd all be pronouncing things very heavily Germanic. :smalleek:


The English and the French have been rivals for centuries and have had quite a few wars between them, official and unofficial. Them getting chummy chummy in WWI and II was a very new thing.

I think it may have to do with the fact that off and on the English had lands in France. Normandy, Anjou, Aquitaine and with Henry V the whole country as his mother was a French Princess. It slowly decimated until Mary Tudor's time when the English lost Calais.

My Aunt, who is English, told me this. Read enough Agatha Christie and you'll read about the English anti-foreigner slant. Not to suggest that it is like this NOW, but it has been for a very long time..

Totally Guy
2010-02-25, 04:14 AM
Not to suggest that it is like this NOW, but it has been for a very long time..

Perhaps you mean "had"?:smalltongue:

Serpentine
2010-02-25, 04:35 AM
I find it amusing that people complain about words such as "fall" and "aluminum" not being English, when the former was used for about a hundred years instead of "autumn" and the person who named aluminium decided himself to get rid of the second i.It's my understanding that "aluminum" and "aluminium" were independently or semi-independently come up with or at least in use at around the same time, and then the US decided to go with one and everywhere else in the world went with the other. But I'll check that.
edit: Wikipedia suggests that "aluminum" came first (well, after "alumium), a critic suggested "aluminium" (for admittedly pretty pretentious reasons), and then preference appeared to be pretty much random until eventually, without any particular reason, the US settled on "aluminum" while the rest of the world preferred "aluminium".
I think you guys over use the "z"

"Thou whoreson zed! Thou unneccesary letter!"Actually, of all the Americanisms, this one bugs me the least. I always think zed is neglected in non-American English...


ahh, Ahh, AHHH! AHHHHHHH!!! ...And there's no R in the word.No, but there is a soft "a".
..wa... wah?!
That just... that doesn't make any sense! I mean, if English was truly anti-French... then... we'd all be pronouncing things very heavily Germanic. :smalleek:Pfft. The English were bagging the French for centuries before the US made it cool.

Katana_Geldar
2010-02-25, 04:41 AM
What about the fact they don't call it "zed", Serpentine?

Serpentine
2010-02-25, 04:43 AM
That bit's silly, but low down on the list of "Americanisms That Annoy Me".

Reinboom
2010-02-25, 04:44 AM
Pfft. The English were bagging the French for centuries before the US made it cool.

:smallconfused:

Why did you say "Pfft."?
I basically just said that the brits were claiming of French long before the US made it cool (the US did? I did not know this.), and this is the reason we speak, as a collective English speakers no matter the dialect, English the way we do.

William the Conqueror and the Great Vowel Shift and all that jazz. Before jazz.

Incidentally, I find it amusing that you called it 'zed' when saying what you said.

[edit]
And besides, many of our Americanisms were originally Britisms that we simply kept. :smalltongue:

Oh the zed versus zee... I am rather fond of the beat of Dr. Seuss, personally. It makes quite a bit more sense to me, personally.

Serpentine
2010-02-25, 05:08 AM
You were suggesting that the English weren't "truly anti-French", and I was explaining that they are the original anti-French, well before the US (which is notorious for it).
I don't see why my use of "zed" is so notable in that context :smallconfused: It's the increased use of the letter "z" in US English that I like, which has nothing to do with zed vs. zee.

Atelm
2010-02-25, 05:22 AM
I mostly try to use British spelling, therefore grey, centre, colour, and so on for me.

potatocubed
2010-02-25, 05:25 AM
Actually, of all the Americanisms, this one bugs me the least. I always think zed is neglected in non-American English...

Might I introduce you to 'Oxford English'? Yes, that's right, Oxford is so snooty and superior that they have their own written dialect of English, and since there are several large publishing companies based here we get to force it on everybody else, too.

The main quirk in OE is using '-ize' endings in place of '-ise' endings. The second quirk is that serial commas are allowed - encouraged, even. Everything else is as normal British English.

Personally, it drives me up the wall - I've been using -ise for so long that seeing -ize in an otherwizewise UK-spelled document has me reflexively reaching for the red pen. But if the style says Oxford English, then Oxford English is what you use...

GolemsVoice
2010-02-25, 05:36 AM
the person who named aluminium decided himself to get rid of the second i.
Here in Germany, it's still Aluminium. Aluminum would sound weird, I think.

When I write, I fear I make a wild mess out of the various spellings. It's really hard to use just one when you are neither American nor English.

KuReshtin
2010-02-25, 07:22 AM
On the topic of aluminum vs aluminium, when I first heard the beginning of this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxQmV0Sd6qo), I chuckled a bit to myself.

I never figured out which spelling of grey/gray was the correct one for me, so I just stopped trying to worry about it.

Weimann
2010-02-25, 07:35 AM
I think I bastardize my English by mixing and matching between the two. I should logically use the British spelling, since I live in Europe, and do indeed prefer armour, colour and such, but I also use gray, theater and center (the latter probably because they are spelled like that in Swedish). So I guess I'm a double agent.

lesser_minion
2010-02-25, 07:44 AM
Might I introduce you to 'Oxford English'? Yes, that's right, Oxford is so snooty and superior that they have their own written dialect of English, and since there are several large publishing companies based here we get to force it on everybody else, too.


Wait, why is it snobby to use a serial comma?

In any event, -ize is closer to the original spelling, and suggesting it as the way forward isn't unique to the OED.

The only thing I found snobby about Oxford English was the refusal to refer to 'that other place' by name (although that works both ways).

Personally, I always use '-ise', but I like the serial comma, thank you very much.

Aside from that, I use British spelling, even when it's something ridiculous like 'biscuit' <geekiness src="QI">(which is pronounced 'bisket', mainly because that's how it was originally spelt)</geekiness>.

This also means not omitting half the letters from 'doughnut'.

(Complaints about hypocrisy and dodgy faux xml in 3...2...)

Autolykos
2010-02-25, 07:45 AM
When I write, I fear I make a wild mess out of the various spellings. It's really hard to use just one when you are neither American nor English.Same for me. I learned British English in school, but nowadays I read mostly American English, so I take what looks "less wrong" to me, which is mostly the American spelling as I'm more used to this.

Grey Paladin
2010-02-25, 08:23 AM
* Cough *

Gitman00
2010-02-25, 08:52 AM
Heh. I opened this up thinking it would be a discussion of this. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GreyAndGrayMorality)

I usually think of grey as a lighter shade of gray. Also, as an eye color, I always use "grey," but when talking about an overcast sky, I use "gray".

Athaniar
2010-02-25, 09:23 AM
Not having English as my first language gives me the opportunity to mix different spellings. For example, I almost always use grEy instead of grAy, but I hardly ever use "ou" when I can use "o". For example, "My armor is grey" instead of "My armour is gray".

Archonic Energy
2010-02-25, 09:40 AM
well as a Brit i am under the impression that this formatting will work...

i bet it didn't though!
:smallwink:

Ikialev
2010-02-25, 09:43 AM
I use grey to describe living things, and gray to objects. And sky.

Erloas
2010-02-25, 10:16 AM
i like ketchup over catsup,because ketchup sounds better with it's K,and the flavor seems to mee more a K than a c
besides catsup is boring to spell.

Actually I believe one is a copy-righted product name, and the other is a generic name used for the same product by other companies.


I always use grey myself, and it really makes me mad when the spell checker tries to tell me it is wrong... just like it is doing right now.

AtomicKitKat
2010-02-25, 10:18 AM
Grey
Just about anything ending in -or will be retyped as -our.
Manoeuvre used to muck me up as well. These days I just remember it as Oxford English University(don't ask me why), and I remember how to spell it. The really hard one is "manoevrability.
AluminIum forever. My brother and I have a joke not suitable for the boards with regards to pronouncing "aluminum". The only metallic element I will accept dropping the "I" for is platinum, and only because "platinium" sounds a little awkward.

valadil
2010-02-25, 10:20 AM
I'm pretty sure you can set the region or locale of your spell checker. Use british english instead of american english if you really want it to recognize grey.

I switch off between the two spellings. No idea why.

Zom B
2010-02-25, 10:27 AM
There's a town near here named Armuchee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_County,_Georgia#Cities_and_towns). Try to pronounce it like that and you'll get clobbered. It's pronounced Armurchee.

Mercenary Pen
2010-02-25, 10:29 AM
Being English, I always use the British spellings (but not the Oxford versions- which I hadn't heard of until now). I've even trained myself to use lef-tenant as appropriate... This is merely a case of what I'm used to, rather than anything else.

PhoeKun
2010-02-25, 11:52 AM
You were suggesting that the English weren't "truly anti-French", and I was explaining that they are the original anti-French, well before the US (which is notorious for it).
I don't see why my use of "zed" is so notable in that context :smallconfused: It's the increased use of the letter "z" in US English that I like, which has nothing to do with zed vs. zee.

I think some wires have been crossed here. English loves French. "Je taime, Francais" it will say every night before snuggling into bed in between it and German every night. They're really quite adorable. This is primarily due to the French (Normans) led by William the Conqueror invading England and taking over stuff there. These same French speaking English nobles would later go on to take massive portions of France while very skilled authors wrote stories in French about King Arthur.

The English and the French have no love lost between them, owing to centuries of European politics and power struggles, and probably having a lot to do with the aforementioned English occupation of France (at the height of which, English nobles had more say in French government than the French King, who of course didn't have a lot of power to begin with).

Reina was talking about the first, and you appear to be talking about the second. And you're both right! =D

On the use of 'z' in words: An 's' cannot completely stand in for a 'z' if the word calls for the harsh "zzz" sound. Much like 'ey' versus 'ay' and 'o' versus 'ou', there are subtle differences in the pronunciation of these syllables. Which one you use is cultural, and the accepted lexicon is probably based on the accents that developed locally more than anything else. When rifts like this appear, it tends to mean the pronunciation of a word is volatile enough that a change in dialect has enough of an impact on the way its said to warrant a new spelling. In these cases, it really means that either or both are acceptable spellings, so it's your call as an English speaker/writer to decide which one appeals to you more and use that. Personally, I like to spell words like I say them in cases like these. This means 'grey', but not 'colour'.

On "zed" versus "zee": b,c,d,e,g,p,t,v... I sense a pattern here. Nothing specifically excludes 'zed' from being right (after all, x is just plain weird), but to get upset at people for assuming a given letter might fit into the most common pronunciation scheme in the alphabet, and worse, call them stupid, smacks of ego stroking and smugness (I know I quoted you, Serpy, but I'm not actually accusing you of this. Or anyone, specifically).

Castaras
2010-02-25, 11:54 AM
ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY "U".

Mum, not "Mom".
Armour, not "Armor".
Colour, not "Color".

I use both grey and gray. Mostly Grey though.

On one forum there was a filter which changed "Alot" into "A lot (two words, not one)". So I always bypassed the filter to say "Alot". :smallbiggrin:

Reinboom
2010-02-25, 12:17 PM
Yes! To Phoe. :smalltongue:


On one forum there was a filter which changed "Alot" into "A lot (two words, not one)". So I always bypassed the filter to say "Alot". :smallbiggrin:

ur on a boat? Oh the T-pain.

Neither British nor American accepts "alot" you know. Not to say that it isn't expected to become a standard, it being in the same boat as "awhile", but that will be some time in the future. :smallconfused:

Athaniar
2010-02-25, 12:48 PM
Speaking of Z, I prefer to pronounce it "zed". Not that I ever have to pronounce it at all, but still. Can't have two letters pronounced almost the same way, can we?

Also, I always use the serial comma. It just looks wrong without it...

Arti3
2010-02-25, 01:44 PM
In my humble opinion, grey=color, gray=name.

GreyVulpine
2010-02-25, 02:34 PM
~whistles innocently~

snoopy13a
2010-02-25, 03:24 PM
Aside from that, I use British spelling, even when it's something ridiculous like 'biscuit' <geekiness src="QI">(which is pronounced 'bisket', mainly because that's how it was originally spelt)</geekiness>.



Americans spell "biscuit" the same. However, the words mean different things.

A British biscuit is an American cookie.

So I suppose that Cookie Monster would have to be Biscuit Monster across the pond :smalltongue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biscuit

Castaras
2010-02-25, 03:25 PM
Yes! To Phoe. :smalltongue:



ur on a boat? Oh the T-pain.

Neither British nor American accepts "alot" you know. Not to say that it isn't expected to become a standard, it being in the same boat as "awhile", but that will be some time in the future. :smallconfused:

I know it doesn't. But the filter he had just annoyed me, so I bypassed it on purpose just to annoy the admin. *whistles innocently*

@^ That's another one. Biscuits are biscuits, cookies are a type of biscuit (the biscuits with chocolate chips in them).

Fifty-Eyed Fred
2010-02-25, 04:02 PM
British spelling triumphs! American spelling often looks idiotic to people on this side of the pond, since most of them look like the kind of phonetic approximations of words you would expect from a child. Not that they are of course, they just appear that way.

And an English perspective on our historical relations with France: don't confuse the Normans or England's medieval Francophone nobility with the French. Under most circumstances the fact that the kings of France had vassals that often wielded more power than them (Particularly humiliating for the French when we were in direct control of half of France in both the Angevin Empire and the territorial gains of Henry V) caused a great deal of conflict between England and France. When an English nationalism anglicised the aristocracy during the Hundred Years' War it shot the last chance for the nobles to be able to see themselves as French in the foot (not that most of them did by that stage, but still), leaving England and France as national enemies for the next 450 years, as we competed for European influence, imperial dominance, and just about anything else you can think of. It was only in the early 20th century that we became non-temporarily allied to France against the new great enemy, Germany. After WWII we haven't really had a great enemy, since our relations with France and Germany are now friendlier (though there is still some national animosity between Britain and France in the modern world, it doesn't translate to declaring war on each other and such).

And in terms of the English language, as I mentioned the nobility, and thus the country, fully adopted the English language from the Hundred Years' War onwards. English has quite a lot of French vocabulary but barely any of the grammar; English remains a Germanic language, albeit with French influences.

Bonecrusher Doc
2010-02-25, 04:09 PM
In Soviet Russia... there is no grey! Only Red!


What is the connection between a lieutenant governor and a lieutenant in the army? In the etymology of the word lieutenant, at least, the connection lies in their holding a place; that is, the word lieutenant is from an Old French compound made up of lieu, "place," and tenant, "holding." The word in Old French and the borrowed Middle English word lieutenant, first recorded near the end of the 14th century, referred to a person who acted for another as a deputy. This usage has survived, for example, in our term lieutenant governor, the deputy of the governor and the one who replaces the governor if need be. In military parlance lieutenant appears by itself as well as in compounds such as first lieutenant and second lieutenant, which muddy the water a bit, but the original notion of the word in military usage was that the officer it referred to ranked below the next one up and could replace him if need be. A lieutenant in the U.S. Army could thus step into the shoes of a captain.

Deadly
2010-02-25, 04:37 PM
I think I use whatever comes to mind first. Sometimes gray, other times grey. Sometimes a 'u' gets added to words liked colo(u)r, sometimes I leave it out. I do prefer the British spelling in most cases, I think, I'm just not conscious enough about it to actually use it consistently.

I certainly don't like the serial comma, though all my other commas tend to be scattered around in totally random fashion. I honestly don't know what I'm doing when it comes to commas.

As for zed vs zee... I prefer zed, absolutely. Maybe because that's just about how it's pronounced in Danish too, so it comes naturally. But also because zee is just too close to 'c'.

Capt Spanner
2010-02-25, 05:13 PM
I find it amusing that people complain about words such as "fall" and "aluminum" not being English, when the former was used for about a hundred years instead of "autumn" and the person who named aluminium decided himself to get rid of the second i.

Well, that soft, silvery metal certainly has a preferred spelling. (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Aluminum&redirect=no):smallcool:

No less an authority than Shakespeare uses "fall" to mean Autumn at some point, although I prefer the term Autumn, and generally use British spellings (-our instead of -or, -ise instead -ize, etc...)


I'm British, btw.

Fifty-Eyed Fred
2010-02-25, 05:28 PM
I see your Shakespeare and raise you Keats' To Autumn (http://www.bartleby.com/126/47.html), considered by critics as one of the most perfect poems in the English language. :smallcool:

PhoeKun
2010-02-25, 05:34 PM
I see your Shakespeare and raise you Keats' To Autumn (http://www.bartleby.com/126/47.html), considered by critics as one of the most perfect poems in the English language. :smallcool:

I see your poem and raise you the fact that treating multiple words with accepted meanings or multiple accepted spellings of a single word as adversarial is incredibly stupid.

As though the existence of Autumn somehow invalidates Fall. No no, surely someone must be right and someone else wrong. That's how life works, right? :smallyuk:

CrimsonAngel
2010-02-25, 05:53 PM
I use grey, but my art teacher spells it gray all the time.

Actualy Gray would be a cool monster name.

Fifty-Eyed Fred
2010-02-25, 06:12 PM
I see your poem and raise you the fact that treating multiple words with accepted meanings or multiple accepted spellings of a single word as adversarial is incredibly stupid.

As though the existence of Autumn somehow invalidates Fall. No no, surely someone must be right and someone else wrong. That's how life works, right? :smallyuk:

Shh, you'll blow my cover! :smalltongue:

It is a difference in terminology, however. Of course Autumn and Fall are the same thing, but then so is a holiday (UK) and vacation (US); there are lots of these terms that change between sides of ponds; I just wanted a literary counterpart to his fall-loving Shakespeare. :smallsmile: Plus, yay Keats.

Thufir
2010-02-25, 06:30 PM
In my humble opinion, grey=color, gray=name.

That's pretty much the way I view it. The colour is grey, but it'd seem weird to me to have a person called [First name] Grey. Gray is better in that context.

Trog
2010-02-25, 07:04 PM
I use both and don't really mind either grey or gray. I tend to not use the extra u's in words. I saved them all up to make this:

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
As to the Aluminum/Aluminium discussion... Appropriate Linky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pVgj6bawus) :smallbiggrin:

Shades of Gray
2010-02-25, 07:05 PM
I think you all know where I stand on the Gray vs Grey debate.

Temotei
2010-02-25, 07:40 PM
I think you all know where I stand on the Gray vs Grey debate.

It's funny how many people on here have grey or gray in their names.

We're bordering heavily on politics though. Let's keep out of that. :smallamused: I like to hear about language preferences, not relationships between European countries and America.

Weimann
2010-02-25, 08:19 PM
On the metal issue, Swedes have it as "aluminium" and that's where it's stayin' long as I'm concerned.

RabbitHoleLost
2010-02-25, 08:37 PM
I prefer sabre to saber.

Edit: As for other things, I tend to use the American spelling, because, honestly, I prefer o's to e's, and I hate unnecessary U's.
Where the heck does the U in Mum come from, anyways? Its not 'Muther', its 'Mother'.

teleute
2010-02-25, 08:37 PM
I'm an American, but I prefer "grey". It just looks more elegant. As a web designer, though, I have to watch my spelling--"grey" will work as a value in Firefox, but not in any other browser that I've tested (I usually end up using hex codes, anyway).

I don't use other British spellings aside from that, but I have a friend who does. When I showed him how to change his spellchecker language to UK English, he was rather pleased to see "gray", "color", and "realize" all get tagged as being misspelled. :smallamused:

DSCrankshaw
2010-02-25, 08:45 PM
Grey and gray are both fine. I actually prefer grey, but I've trained myself to use gray so I don't get editors mad at me.

As for other words that I like spelling oddly: personally, I've always preferred gryphon over griffin, and I use it exclusively. It's just a cooler spelling--plus it's closer to the Greek spelling and the Latin intermediate, and we all need more Greek and Latin in our lives.

Serpentine
2010-02-25, 08:46 PM
There's a town near here named Armuchee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_County,_Georgia#Cities_and_towns). Try to pronounce it like that and you'll get clobbered. It's pronounced Armurchee.Pronounce this town:
Tallangatta
I would put it at 70% probability you'll get it wrong. 90% if you know the town Wangaratta and other similar Australian towns.

Phoekun: Ah, that makes sense. Also, if you're right, here in 'straya we should be spelling colour "Culla" :smalltongue:

On cookie vs. biscuit: While I almost always call any hard, flat, (normally) sweet carbohydrate-based snackable a "biscuit", I am okay with calling the more homemadeish, visibly identifyable ingredients, extra-bits (e.g. chocolate chips) varieties "cookies". But, say, Arnotts Arrowroot is always always always biscuit. Also Oreos and the like.

Arti3
2010-02-25, 08:53 PM
I'm partially surprised the English don't say "grouy" :D

Temotei
2010-02-25, 10:47 PM
I actually say "Mum" when I call for Mum. I'm an American with Italian (25%), Irish (X%), and German (Y%) history. :smallbiggrin:

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-02-25, 11:04 PM
Grey for me. And Firefox doesn't correct it.

(Course, I also use theatre, daemon, and betwixt, so I shouldn't really be used as an indicator for the population in general...)

teleute
2010-02-25, 11:07 PM
I actually say "Mum" when I call for Mum. I'm an American with Italian (25%), Irish (X%), and German (Y%) history. :smallbiggrin:

I'm about the same percentage of nationalities (with a few others thrown in for color), but I was raised by the Italian side of my family. We all have a tendency to say "Ma".

Temotei
2010-02-25, 11:09 PM
I'm about the same percentage of nationalities (with a few others thrown in for color), but I was raised by the Italian side of my family. We all have a tendency to say "Ma".

I think I have a mishmash of other nationalities as well, but those are the ones that I actually have a measurable amount in.

I just developed "Mum" out of nowhere. No one ever said Mum around me, no one else ever called their mothers Mum...hm. I suppose I'm just unique. :smallamused:

ForzaFiori
2010-02-26, 12:18 AM
I use gray. And pretty much every other American spelling. Oddly, the only exception is that when referring to a place that plays are performed, I use theatRE. But if movies are shown, its TheatER.

Felixaar
2010-02-26, 12:44 AM
Being the complete nutbar I am, I used them diffrently depending on the situation and themes involved.

Oh, don't look at me like that.

Dexam
2010-02-26, 01:12 AM
Where the heck does the U in Mum come from, anyways? Its not 'Muther', its 'Mother'.

That's because mum has it's origins in ma'am (itself a shortening of the French madame), not mother. And before anyone comments about that making even less sense: the a's in ma'am are spoken with the English short, soft, back-of-throat pronounciation; not that hideously hard, drawn-out, nasal pronounciation that seems to be the preference of many Americans. :smalltongue:

Katana_Geldar
2010-02-26, 02:28 AM
I hate that noise, and no offence to Americans but you put it everywhere. :smallmad:

Linkavitch
2010-02-26, 01:44 PM
I pretty much just use the more european-seeming spelling of 'grey'. It occasionally annoys people, so that'sa part of the reason.

Dogmantra
2010-02-26, 02:35 PM
I use gray. And pretty much every other American spelling. Oddly, the only exception is that when referring to a place that plays are performed, I use theatRE. But if movies are shown, its TheatER.

That... that makes sense I guess, kind of how I do programme and program in British English. It's sort of the "newer" words being for the newer concepts.

lesser_minion
2010-02-26, 03:39 PM
As I understand it, a 'program' is a list of instructions (which can also be instructions for a human being, e.g. a recipe), while a 'programme' is something you watch on TV, or a schedule for a sequence of events.

According to wiktionary, however, 'program' refers exclusively to instructions for a machine.

NB. The above refers to British usage only.