LOST: The Final Season [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

YorickBrown

2010-02-25, 02:49 PM

No, but I am watching.

Still at point "Huh. Wonder how this'll turn out."
lol, everyone i know who has been watching the show is at that point...

i've been watching since Day 1 and am completely enthralled with everything about the show. have mixed emotions about it ending, but am excited to see how (if) they wrap it all up

I've just started watching the seasons from start to finish (my first go around) via Hulu (god bless you).

I've been writing down questions presented as I go along, and then writing down answers when they are given.... Somehow I doubt this show will have the big payoff I'm expecting when I get to the final season.
not sure i can share in the doubt...

i thought this week's episode was the best Jack-centric episode they had ever done. loved everything with Hurley & Jacob and i thought the sideways universe story with Jack was very well done.

chiasaur11

2010-02-25, 03:01 PM

I'm wondering what sort of schemes alternate Ben has cooking. Will it be stealing the handicapped space from under Locke's nose? Getting the wrong kind of doughnuts?

You know he's up to something.

Myatar_Panwar

2010-02-25, 04:40 PM

Okay, so I'm watching through the finale of season 4, and....

The helicopter flys off the boat, and leaves about 15 people there. Then Gin comes out and all of a sudden there was a panic? Couldn't he have just taken up a vest and jumped off with the rest of the people (I assume thats what they were doing, they were all donning life vests).

This brings up the bigger question as to why none of those people actually just jumped off when they got their life vest on. I mean, I know that the ocean is hardly safe, but its probably safer than an exploding ship. Were they just waiting around to see if it actually exploded? Didn't want to get all wet?

Wierd

Nameless

2010-02-25, 04:55 PM

Thank God it's finally over. :D

*parties*

Arctic

2010-02-25, 05:38 PM

{Scrubbed}

Nameless

2010-02-25, 05:59 PM

Actually, TB asked a question. I insinuated an answer.

Arctic

2010-02-25, 06:04 PM

{Scrubbed}

Myatar_Panwar

2010-02-25, 06:12 PM

I don't really see how you can find the show unenjoyable. Even though I have my criticisms, it is still a wonderful show.

Innis Cabal

2010-02-25, 06:12 PM

Hey now, lets keep it civil. Obviously Nameless dosn't like the show. The object was to get opnions. He's got a dissenting one. Thats all fair in discussion.

I myself find the show to be needlessly convoluted for the sake of itself. And that puts me right off it.

EleventhHour

2010-02-25, 06:16 PM

It's all the dog's fault.

>.>

No, I don't actually watch the show. That's just what I picked up from a discussion.

chiasaur11

2010-02-25, 06:21 PM

I think, no matter our differences, fan and hater alike, we all can agree on a simple truth.

Ben Linus being punched in the face should happen more often.

Nameless

2010-02-25, 06:33 PM

The object of the question is to find out who likes the show in order to talk about it. If you don't like it, you are irrelevant. You can go now.

I am talking about it. You can't just ignore people who have a different opinion and tell them to go away.

I don't really see how you can find the show unenjoyable. Even though I have my criticisms, it is still a wonderful show.

I just find it the same as so many other shows. It’s pretty dull and boring, then leaves you with some sort of cliff hanger or twist at the end of each episode. Then the next episode, it’s pretty boring again until the very end where it leaves you with yet another cliff hanger to make the viewer come back again to watch yet another boring episode.
I put it together with shows like 24.

YorickBrown

2010-02-25, 06:39 PM

this thread is turning out better than i could've hoped

:belkar:

Arctic

2010-02-25, 07:33 PM

Ben Linus being punched in the face should happen more often.

But that already happens a minimum of 3 times per season! It's as common as Hurley saying "Dude"! :smallbiggrin:

Of course, the show is not meant for just anyone. I find it interesting for it's mythology, recurring themes, and great storytelling. The cast of talented actors (Terry O'Quinn, Michael Emerson, Matthew Fox) adds to it. It would be interesting to know how much of the show has been seen by the dislikers.

Arctic

2010-02-25, 08:40 PM

Payoff, payoff, the show is in it's last season so it has to pay the viewers, what. What about the journey itself?

YorickBrown

2010-02-25, 08:41 PM

while true that the new schedule does keep people someone in the dark if they need refreshers, all episodes are available on Hulu, ABC.com, & Netflix Watch Instantly

chiasaur11

2010-02-25, 08:43 PM

But that already happens a minimum of 3 times per season! It's as common as Hurley saying "Dude"! :smallbiggrin:

That's true and good. Should still happen more often.

Episode consisting entirely of Linus hit in the face: Good thing.

Myatar_Panwar

2010-02-25, 09:25 PM

Payoff, payoff, the show is in it's last season so it has to pay the viewers, what. What about the journey itself?

going through season 4, and starting season 5, here are the things I still need to know

Whats up with the smoke monster and how did ben control it.
whats up with Jacob
Whats up with the exotic wild life on the island
Time travel?
Healing powers on the island?
Jacks dad a head hauncho?
Why do walt/desmond have powers?
Why did claire leave
Why do people see things (shannon seeing walt etc) on the island and off (curly seeing dead people, jack seeing his father)
etc

I'm sure some of these questions will be answered, but I wouldn't doubt it if some weren't.

Unfortunately, when you portray your show as something set in present day, the term "a wizard did it" just wont cut it.

Arctic

2010-02-25, 10:02 PM

going through season 4, and starting season 5, here are the things I still need to know

Whats up with the smoke monster and how did ben control it.
whats up with Jacob
Whats up with the exotic wild life on the island
Time travel?
Healing powers on the island?
Jacks dad a head hauncho?
Why do walt/desmond have powers?
Why did claire leave
Why do people see things (shannon seeing walt etc) on the island and off (curly seeing dead people, jack seeing his father)
etc

I'm sure some of these questions will be answered, but I wouldn't doubt it if some weren't.

Unfortunately, when you portray your show as something set in present day, the term "a wizard did it" just wont cut it.

As of season 6 episode 5:

What's up with the smoke monster and how Ben controlled it (Partial answer, right in the core of it)
What's up with Jacob (Partial answer, right in the core of it)
Exotic wild life (Polar bears and stuff were brought to the island by DHARMA, assumed since season 3)
Healing powers (Answered)
Time travel (Unanswered yet)
Jack's dad (partial answer, right in the core of it)
Walt/Desmond (Unanswered yet, Walt will probably never get explained thought, Desmond will most probably be.)
Claire (Right in the core of it)
Manifestations (Some answered, some not. Depends of the case.)

"Right in the core of it" means that it is being answered bit-by-bit right now.

You will see a whole lot of the smoke monster, Jacob and Claire, don't worry. Just enjoy the ride without having insane expectations, that'll end up ruining the show for you. :smallwink:

ThePhantasm

2010-02-25, 11:37 PM

I have absolutely loved LOST since day 1, and I still love the show. I think that Season 6, bar one episode, has been fantastic so far and can't wait for the finale. Its going to be awesome, folks.

factotum

2010-02-26, 03:34 AM

YorickBrown

2010-02-26, 11:09 AM

:smalleek:

sorry, did not see that part when i was reading through

Nameless

2010-02-26, 11:33 AM

I, myself, wonder how many of the people who hate Lost hate it because of the dark days around Season 2 and the first half of Season 3...it's been pretty much all uphill since then, IMHO. Just waiting for the answers myself!

I only watched the first season. However, my dad watches it because my mum loves the show and he tells me it's pretty much exactly the same. Me and him share the same opinions about shows 99.9% of the time (Not including anime), so when he tells me that it's just as dull as the first season and the story line is just as weak and pointless, I trust him.

Myatar_Panwar

2010-02-28, 10:23 PM

Just got caught up. Wow, the show really jumped in quality for me in season 5.

Moglorosh

2010-02-28, 10:29 PM

"ABC's decision to tape short seasons and not air repeats in the off seasons has made it more difficult (for people who don't or can't watch online on-demand) to keep up with the continuing plotlines."

Not everyone has access to on-demand video. Not everyone can afford cable/satellite fees for high-speed internet.

I live within a hour's drive of a major city, within ten minutes' drive of very affluent areas, but my neighborhood can't even get DSL yet.
It is an unfortunate reality however that these things are becoming more and more expected. It won't be much longer before it makes the jump to necessary for a great deal of the entertainment world.

Chronologist

2010-03-01, 10:00 AM

I must say, I was originally skeptical of the show (me and my pathological hate for mainstream), but I quite enjoyed the episodes I saw.

However, after seeing some of the first episodes and reading a (fairly long and extensive) synopsis, I'm not confused about what's going on on the island. I'm pretty sure everything can be explained as space/time fluctuations due to an temporal paradox.

Anyway, yes, I'm interested in the ending. Hopefully it won't be a letdown.

Arctic

2010-03-04, 01:48 PM

Well, the ending for last episode was quite eerie.

Claire's creepy lullaby in the background only added to the mood. Kate's face being all "what the hell is this" too. Oh well, you could see from the beginning of the episode that Sayid wasn't behaving like normally. Remember in season one where he isolated himself because he thought he was a danger to others? All he did now was stick around and claim he was a good person. Right after he tells Hurley he was a bad person on his death bed. Yeah.

Dogen's little backstory only reinforces my theory that Jacob, as much as MIB, doesn't really give a damn about people. He keeps claiming he gives people choices, when there really is none. If Dogen would've refused Jacob's offer, he would have suffered massive guilt for the rest of his life.

What kind of person would get Sayid's girlfriend killed just so Sayid would come back to the island? That's two lives ruined there.

Most of the Others didn't really seem to know their purpose. Almost as if the only person who really knew what their group is all about was Dogen, and maybe Richard, thought I'm not sure about that.

YorickBrown

2010-03-04, 02:12 PM

LOVED this week's episode

Sayid is a bad bad man

Mystic Muse

2010-03-04, 02:22 PM

The problem I have with Lost is half the episodes consist of flashbacks. After a certain point I stopped caring about the characters' previous lives. It also felt like it took five episodes for the show to actually go anywhere.

I don't mean to offend. That's just what I think of the show. I actually watched a couple seasons of it. However, at this point, I've lost interest in Lost.

YorickBrown

2010-03-04, 03:46 PM

factotum

2010-03-04, 04:52 PM

The problem I have with Lost is half the episodes consist of flashbacks. After a certain point I stopped caring about the characters' previous lives. It also felt like it took five episodes for the show to actually go anywhere.

Actually, there's been barely any flashbacks at all in Season 6 so far, and they played a bit fast and loose with the concept by actually having flash-FORWARDS a couple of seasons ago. Anyway, the flashbacks tell you a lot about the backstory of the characters, which are linked in all sorts of ways...figuring out that puzzle is part of the show's attraction, I think!

Arctic

2010-03-04, 05:04 PM

and if you stopped around the beginning of Season 3 i can definitely understand that opinion of the show. Season 2 was horrendously slow & the first 1/3 of Season 3 wasn't much better, but it picked up mid Season 3 and has been great since

Yep.

Mid season 3 is still slow, but you get to learn a lot of things such as who are the Others, which is a set-up for what's to come. The pace of the show really increases at the end of season 3, and it keeps increasing after. If flashbacks bore you, I can tell you they stop being about irrelevant stuff like Jack's marriage and Kate running away, after season 3. They cease to exist for some characters, and real flashbacks as you used to know them are reserved to the newly-introduced characters. As you can see, the show really changes it's narrative and pace after season 3. You shouldn't give up so soon. :smallwink:

EDIT: We should really define what we consider a spoiler in this thread and what is not. :smallconfused:

Mystic Muse

2010-03-04, 05:11 PM

what season did Charlie die in? That was the season I gave up at.

Arctic

2010-03-04, 05:21 PM

what season did Charlie die in? That was the season I gave up at.

Season 3 :smallwink:

kpenguin

2010-03-05, 12:54 AM

For my part, Lost drew me in with the characterization more than the plot. I suppose I don't care all that much about the mythology, though I certainly do care about it, as much as I care about the character arcs. Thus, the show moving slowly didn't bother me so much as other people and neither did getting few answers.

Arctic

2010-03-13, 08:43 PM

Well, the latest episode showed pretty well one of the reasons I watch the show. Ladies and gentlemens, Michael Emerson.

Totally Guy

2010-03-15, 07:55 AM

I've just bought a season 6 pass on itunes.:smallbiggrin:

The Ben episode was very good. Nothing has gone his way since he returned. But the choice he made I think may have set him on the right road.

"He's the only one who'll have me":smallfrown:

factotum

2010-03-15, 12:53 PM

Arctic

2010-03-15, 09:41 PM

It was interesting that roughly the same thing was happening in both the main story and the flash-sideways episode--e.g. Ben being given the chance of gaining power, but giving it up. Can't imagine the Ben of season 4 or 5 doing that...one can hope he's actually becoming the good guy he always claimed he was!

Actually, it was also mirroring the events of his flashbacks in season 5, where he took leadership of the Others by finding out that Widmore was having an affair with a woman off-island (Penny's mother). Only one scene was about that, so it's easily forgettable, but the whole flash-sideways plot is the same thing, except for the resolution.

Totally Guy

2010-03-16, 02:27 AM

Is the alternate universe timeline the same up until the H-Bomb goes off?

Had Ben still been healed by the others?

Arctic

2010-03-16, 06:58 AM

Is the alternate universe timeline the same up until the H-Bomb goes off?

Had Ben still been healed by the others?

We have nothing to confirm it yet, but people tend to assume so.

Lifeson

2010-03-16, 09:25 AM

But that already happens a minimum of 3 times per season! It's as common as Hurley saying "Dude"! :smallbiggrin:

Of course, the show is not meant for just anyone. I find it interesting for it's mythology, recurring themes, and great storytelling. The cast of talented actors (Terry O'Quinn, Michael Emerson, Matthew FoxJACKFACE, Naveen Andrews) adds to it. It would be interesting to know how much of the show has been seen by the dislikers.

Fixed that for you. :smalltongue:

Also, a certain pairing seems to have sprung up a little in the show that two friends of mine started:

Ben and Ilana, anyone?

As for, well, liking it or not...I like it, and I'm watching it, but I wouldn't put myself as a big fan of it. It...just has enough little things about it that make me think twice about how much I like it.

Syka

2010-03-17, 07:57 PM

I watch Lost for two reasons: Benjamin Linus and Richard Allpert. Used to also be Desmond, but he's mostly a non-character now since his storyline has been cleaned up.

Seriously, that's it.

I started right before Season 2 came out on DVD. I worked at a movie store in 2005-2006, so I watched Season 1 on DVD, then when S2 came out I crammed the ENTIRE SEASON into 2-3 days. Since then I've used a combination of the ABC video player and DVR to keep up real time.

I got my boyfriend into it right abouts S4, but he had to watch through to catch up. He starting complaining halfway through S2 and I made him stick it out. He did. He was happy he did. Once you get to the end of S3 it picks up and actually kinda begins answering questions.

My most favorite Lost scene to date?

At the end of Dr. Linus. Hurley, Jack, and Richard come upon Sun, Miles, Ilana, and Ben. The wideshot shows Hurley, Jack, Sun, Miles, and Ilana in the middle with Ben and Richard standing on the outskirt of both sides.

It was just...touching, in a way. Both are outcasts in their own ways from all groups involved. I just loved it.

Also, Season 6 is thus far rewarding those of us who have made it through. Answers wheeeee!

Next week is Richard's episode. Who else is excited? :smallbiggrin:

Arctic

2010-03-18, 07:13 AM

Next week is Richard's episode. Who else is excited? :smallbiggrin:

Potential Black Rock pirates? YESS! :smallbiggrin:

Desmond was definitely one of the most interesting characters, I'll give you that. Even though his role is very minor now, I don't think we're done with him yet. Remember when Eloise said the Island wasn't done with him yet? Well.

THEORY:
Desmond is currently locked inside Widmore's sub.

Syka

2010-03-18, 10:01 AM

THEORY:
Desmond is currently locked inside Widmore's sub.

:frown:
[/spoiler]And I bet he's all "PENNNNN-NUUUUUH!" lol [/spoiler]

In all seriousness, if he still had a bigger role he'd be at the top of my list. The Constant made me cry. I don't cry. :smalltongue:

ETA:

Can't believe I forgot! Rose and Bernard! Totally my favorite pairing.

The sheer fact they set up camp in the middle of the forest and go tell everyone to go eff themselves since, "Hey, we're retired" is hilarious.

Totally Guy

2010-03-18, 10:07 AM

The Constant :smallbiggrin:

Was that episode aired at Christmas in the US? Because I figured that maybe it was a stealthy Christmas special.

I was so overjoyed with their phonecall.

Syka

2010-03-18, 10:13 AM

According to Wikipedia, it aired February 28, 2008. No Christmas Special. Maybe a Valentine's Day Special?

Arctic

2010-03-18, 09:14 PM

It was simply Christmas day in the Lost timeline. :smallwink:

Syka

2010-03-23, 10:20 AM

Alpert Episode tonight!

Totally Guy

2010-03-23, 10:29 AM

I don't get to see it until Saturday morning when it gets onto i-tunes. I'll have to stay away until then for fear of spoilers! :smallwink:

Mauther

2010-03-23, 12:02 PM

For me Lost in general and season 6 in particular are all about the little things. The flashbacks, flashforwards, and flashsideways are just ways of fleshing out the characters without muddying up the already admittedly ridiculous main plot. I like the main plot, but try explaining Lost to someone who’s never seen it, or show the “previously on Lost” bit at the beginning of each episode to them. It sounds like the dumbest show ever.

But for all the wacky joy of the magical island, it’s the relationships that carry it independent of the main show.
After all, so far season 6 has generated joking fan interest in a Locke and Linus version of Boston Public plus Sawyer and Miles doing a CSI: Los Angeles. The constant throwbacks are also a huge payout to fans: Sawyer’s “of Mice and Men” fixation, Miles grabbing the diamonds from Expose’ the list goes on.
The show rewards its viewers for their investment, and largely assumes they are smart enough to figure out details without having all the answers served up on a silver platter.

Arctic

2010-03-23, 03:42 PM

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/1630/4443059723ff767bbba2.jpg

:smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

Mauther

2010-03-23, 03:56 PM

re: Lafleur the series
Just look at the concept. Troubled cop looking for the villian who caused his parent's death teamed up with a smart aleck who can talk to the dead. Why ISN'T USA network making this already? Its Dirty Hairy meets Tru Calling.

Arctic

2010-03-23, 04:39 PM

pita

2010-03-23, 04:45 PM

I want a show with Jorge Garcia as the villain. I would watch LaFleur. Also, I can only watch on Thursday, (Airing dates in Israel, ugh), but I heard that Titus Welliver (original Man In Black) is coming back, so yay.

Arctic

2010-03-23, 09:04 PM

Ab Aeterno. One of the best LOST episodes ever. I was already attached to Richard's character, but now I really care about him. Who knew Nestor Carbonell had such a great acting range?

Syka

2010-03-23, 11:26 PM

Ab Aeterno. One of the best LOST episodes ever. I was already attached to Richard's character, but now I really care about him. Who knew Nestor Carbonell had such a great acting range?

I know! I'm curious as to whether English or Spanish is his first language (he's part Cuban and part Catalan), and when he learned the other. If I'm not mistaken, his Spanish was well pronounced.

150 years later and he's still heartbroken. :smallfrown: I just wanna give him a big ole hug.

Totally Guy

2010-03-27, 12:31 PM

I enjoyed the focus on Richard. He reminded me of Desmond in a way. In American fiction the sympathetic foreigners tend to be Spanish or Scottish :smalltongue:. But in that respect Lost has done quite well portraying all kinds of culture things, (lack of Australians on the plane not withstanding) but of course I use Charlie as the benchmark, and his flashbacks were convincingly British in my book. Holiday at Butlins? Showing their work.

Need to know about the Man in Black...

kpenguin

2010-03-31, 02:28 AM

THEORY:
Desmond is currently locked inside Widmore's sub.

Good call, brotha

Arctic

2010-03-31, 05:25 PM

THE ISLAND IS NEVER DONE WITH HIM! :smallbiggrin:

kpenguin

2010-03-31, 09:34 PM

I do wonder what Widmore has planned for him.

Syka

2010-03-31, 10:47 PM

:smallfurious:

Oz and I discovered last night, with 7 minutes left in the episode, that the DVR was NOT recording Lost.

Apparently, his mom set it up to record the V marathon on SyFy. We did not realize this overlapped with Lost and NCIS (or CSI or whatever the other show). For some reason it opted to NOT RECORD LOST. :smallfurious:

We have to wait for Hulu or ABC to get the episode online before we can see it. :smallfrown:

...but if Desmond comes back, I can wait. :smallsmile:

thegurullamen

2010-04-01, 01:16 AM

We have to wait for Hulu or ABC to get the episode online before we can see it. :smallfrown:

It's up.

Man, poor The Kwons. The way I see it, they're becoming the show's newest Woobies. Also, I hope soulless Sayid doesn't become a boring caricature of evil. "I feel nothing." Oh, the mind reels in dread from that line and how other writers have used it in the past. That would be a massive disappointment with a character as interesting as Sayid.

Syka

2010-04-01, 10:20 AM

It's up.

In that case, we'll probably watch it tonight. :smallbiggrin: I'm guessing they realized that the whole "Wait 8 days to put episodes online" thing was a Bad Idea?

Or is it only NBC that does that and I'm just getting confused?

thegurullamen

2010-04-01, 02:26 PM

In that case, we'll probably watch it tonight. :smallbiggrin: I'm guessing they realized that the whole "Wait 8 days to put episodes online" thing was a Bad Idea?

Or is it only NBC that does that and I'm just getting confused?

No, I'm pretty sure they used to do it that way and Yea, it was bad and the e-fans cried out "Wtf? You can get more ad revenue if you stop being idiots, here."

Follow up: Why would you Quote my post when it's got a spoiler box?

Szilard

2010-04-01, 09:22 PM

I still think Vincent is the most important character in the series. Of course, I only just finished season 5, and Hulu only has the last five episodes of season six, so it looks like I'm out of luck here.

Terry576

2010-04-01, 10:27 PM

IthilanorStPete

2010-04-01, 10:50 PM

Lost will never end dears.

Check their track record:

Three Years Ago:

LOST! THE FINAL SEASON!

Two Years Ago:

LOST! THE FINAL SEASON!

Last Year:

LOST! THE FINAL SEASON!

This Year:

LOST! THE FINAL SEASON!

...what the heck are you talking about? They fixed this season as the final one, what, 2 and a half years ago? And I don't remember them billing any previous season as the final one.

Arctic

2010-04-02, 12:02 AM

...what the heck are you talking about? They fixed this season as the final one, what, 2 and a half years ago? And I don't remember them billing any previous season as the final one.

Exactly. The end date has been fixed a big while ago, around the season 3 finale. We knew from that moment that the show would end with season six. And, no, the previous seasons were not billed as the final ones. Are we watching the same show? Are you even watching the show? :smallconfused:

Totally Guy

2010-04-10, 04:02 PM

How good is Alternate Universe Desmond? :smallbiggrin:

This episode really hit me...

"Well I've got a great job, lot of money, get to travel the world. Why wouldn't I be happy?"
"Have you ever been in love?"

I'm not quite there myself, but I've got more than I need. I need to find my very own Penny. :smallfrown:

kpenguin

2010-04-10, 07:54 PM

BatRobin

2010-04-10, 08:31 PM

You know, quite a few of the romantic subplots on this show are pretty good. Desmond/Penny, of course, as shown in the latest episode, but also Sun/Jin, Rose/Bernard, and even Charlie/Claire.

Why is the Jack-Kate-Sawyer love triangle such a damn mess.

Charlie/Claire and the Jackateyer B-plots died 2 or 3 seasons ago.

Charlie/Claire died when Charlie died, but the ALT timeline has a very small chance of reuniting them.

Jackateyer is long gone. Juliet came along and it just broke apart. Not even Jack/Kate any more. It's more of 'we all work together' now.

I loved Desmond's recent ep. Loved how Desmond was essentially Charlie's parole officer. Also, Daniel and Charlotte returning this season made me smile a lot.

factotum

2010-04-11, 01:13 AM

Why is the Jack-Kate-Sawyer love triangle such a damn mess.

Because in fiction, as in real life, the course of true love rarely runs smoothly? Besides, as BatRobin just pointed out, the Jack-Kate-Sawyer love triangle doesn't really exist anymore...

kpenguin

2010-04-11, 01:16 AM

Charlie/Claire and the Jackateyer B-plots died 2 or 3 seasons ago.

Charlie/Claire died when Charlie died, but the ALT timeline has a very small chance of reuniting them.

Jackateyer is long gone. Juliet came along and it just broke apart. Not even Jack/Kate any more. It's more of 'we all work together' now..

What's your point? That we won't have to worry about those plots anymore? :smallconfused:

It doesn't take away from the fact that Jackateyer was a mess. And by mess, I don't simply mean in the typical love triangle type of way. By mess, I mean painfully poorly written and unengaging.

The Lost crew could take some pointers from Archie Comics, perhaps.

Jaros

2010-04-11, 09:17 AM

The fifth season finale had a point where half the character's motivation about the bomb came down to how they felt about Kate. The Jacketeyer triangle is still annoyingly strong.

thegurullamen

2010-04-11, 01:42 PM

The fifth season finale had a point where half the character's motivation about the bomb came down to how they felt about Kate. The Jacketeyer triangle is still annoyingly strong.

He's right:

Sawyer: What did you screw up so bad the first time around you're willing to blow up a damn nuke for a second chance?
Jack: (after much babbling about Fate) I had her. I had her and I lost her.

What is so damned special about this woman?

Maelstrom

2010-04-11, 01:43 PM

kpenguin

2010-04-11, 01:44 PM

Kate's not too bad when she's on her own and neither are Jack and Sawyer. It's when they're part of a triangle plot that they get fairly annoying.

The fact that so much time has been devoted to that plot over the seasons only worsens the effect.

Jaros

2010-04-11, 08:10 PM

Jack and Sawyer I both like, but Kate usually annoys me.

kpenguin

2010-04-14, 03:36 AM

...what? What's going on with Desmond? BOTH Desmonds... if they are indeed separate.

Totally Guy

2010-04-14, 06:33 AM

...what? What's going on with Desmond? BOTH Desmonds... if they are indeed separate.

I thought they were going to switch places.

thegurullamen

2010-04-14, 02:10 PM

There is only one Desmond and he is the existential Batman. Watch him lay down a gambit across two universes, thirty years (times two) and one funked up island while being the suave mofo we all know and fear.

Lockeness Monster: "Why aren't you afraid?" (push)
Desmond: (thinks) "Right where I need to be." (smug laugh, Brutha)

Mauther

2010-04-14, 03:55 PM

All plans are for naught when your enemy is willing to throw you in a well. That's seriously a **** move!

Szilard

2010-04-14, 05:37 PM

I like how they attempt to kill eachother in both realities. Almost sort of like revenge on eachother. Yet not. ... I'm not sure what I'm saying anymore.

Moglorosh

2010-04-14, 06:15 PM

I like how they attempt to kill eachother in both realities. Almost sort of like revenge on eachother. Yet not. ... I'm not sure what I'm saying anymore.

I thought the same thing actually, and I chuckled about it a bit.Though it could be that he was trying to "show him something", as he said.

Lifeson

2010-04-14, 10:54 PM

On the bright side, not every episode has Jack crying. Of course he still does, but it's almost a bearable amount though.

Also:

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/1630/4443059723ff767bbba2.jpg

:smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

I would watch the hell out of this. It might even overtake Castle as my favourite crime-fighting-series.

Avilan the Grey

2010-04-15, 12:34 AM

Syka

2010-04-15, 09:34 AM

I think this is worse than Twin Peaks.

I, like most of my friends, LOVED the first season, and was interested in the second, and then dropped it because it was obvious that the writers were too in love with the weird stuff to remember to actually have a plot.

Remember, that even the actors, according to interviews, doubt the ending will be able to satisfy the fans of the show. I am convinced that the ending will be an extreme letdown.

I will probably not watch the last episode, but I will at least read ABOUT it, so I know what happened.

Actually, if you make it through Season 2 and the first third of 3, it gets way better.

Also...I pretty much love how
Desmond, who ends up missing for like half the series, seems to be the Most Important Character. <3 Also...YAY LIBBY!

I was discussing with Oz last night about how they love Great Romances.

Desmond/Penny
Daniel/Charlotte
Rose/Bernard
Charlie/Claire
Hurley/Libby
Alex/That One Boy
Sawyer/Juliet (I liked this one)
Jin/Sun
Richard/The Chick

...among others. 4 of those showed up in this last episode, and a few of them have that "No matter the universe we shalt always be together!" feel.

But yeah, Kate/Sawyer/Jack is just completely screwed up. I was pissed they have Sawyer still having feelings over Kate that interfere with plot since, ya know, it's been THREE YEARS and he is still in love with Juliet. :smallsigh:

Arctic

2010-04-15, 08:10 PM

Remember, that even the actors, according to interviews, doubt the ending will be able to satisfy the fans of the show. I am convinced that the ending will be an extreme letdown.

Could you link us to such interviews? Unless they are made after they received their section of the script, they are as clueless about it as we are. Personally, I'm optimistic about the finale.

pita

2010-04-16, 09:28 AM

Could you link us to such interviews? Unless they are made after they received their section of the script, they are as clueless about it as we are. Personally, I'm optimistic about the finale.

I can't find it, but there was an interview with Henry Ian Cusick last week about Desmond, and he said that he was filming the last episode, and that from the scenes he's in, it didn't get resolved well. of course, that's only his scenes, so we might yet get a good resolution. But other than Hurley, Desmond is possibly the key good guy.

factotum

2010-04-16, 10:42 AM

I can't find it, but there was an interview with Henry Ian Cusick last week about Desmond, and he said that he was filming the last episode, and that from the scenes he's in, it didn't get resolved well.

That might just mean Desmond dies horribly or something in the last episode, which certainly wouldn't be a good resolution for HIS character... :smallsmile:

Syka

2010-04-16, 11:10 AM

That might just mean Desmond dies horribly or something in the last episode, which certainly wouldn't be a good resolution for HIS character... :smallsmile:

....Blasphemy. :smallannoyed:

(And yes, that WILL be the expression on my face if they do that...something like ":smalleek::smalleek::smallannoyed::smallmad::small furious::smallyuk::smallfurious:")

Actually reminds me...I need to see if there is a Flashforward thread because I have a reaaaaal beef with what happened to one of the characters in last weeks episode. :smallannoyed:

ThePhantasm

2010-04-16, 02:00 PM

I can't find it, but there was an interview with Henry Ian Cusick last week about Desmond, and he said that he was filming the last episode, and that from the scenes he's in, it didn't get resolved well. of course, that's only his scenes, so we might yet get a good resolution. But other than Hurley, Desmond is possibly the key good guy.

I remember that interview, but he was talking I think about the Desmond / Widmore relationship, not Desmond's arc overall, from what I remember.

Totally Guy

2010-05-01, 04:38 AM

My iTunes download hasn't shown up this week. :(

Mathis

2010-05-01, 06:25 AM

My iTunes download hasn't shown up this week. :(

That's because for some reason unknown to me episode 14 The Candidate won't be airing until 4th of may.

thegurullamen

2010-05-01, 02:12 PM

That's because for some reason unknown to me episode 14 The Candidate won't be airing until 4th of may.

Everything's in reruns this week so the finales will get pushed back into sweeps week.

Totally Guy

2010-05-02, 02:49 AM

Everything's in reruns this week so the finales will get pushed back into sweeps week.

Ok so I'm not missing out, that's ok.

I don't understand this sentence. What's sweeps week?

Kato

2010-05-02, 11:23 AM

Actually, if you make it through Season 2 and the first third of 3, it gets way better.

Hey, I liked season 2. Though, they screwed it up, I liked the mind screw plot idea. Maybe they should have stayed with technobubble instead of switching to mystical angel/devil figures...

Also...I pretty much love how
Desmond, who ends up missing for like half the series, seems to be the Most Important Character. <3 Also...YAY LIBBY!

Yeah, certain fan favorites really get a lot of special attention. (very unique snowflake)

I was discussing with Oz last night about how they love Great Romances.

Desmond/Penny
Daniel/Charlotte
Rose/Bernard
Charlie/Claire
Hurley/Libby
Alex/That One Boy Carl
Sawyer/Juliet (I liked this one)
Jin/Sun
Richard/The Chick

...among others. 4 of those showed up in this last episode, and a few of them have that "No matter the universe we shalt always be together!" feel.

There were even more? (Okay, maybe Jack/Kate, dependin on what you like *hides from other shippers*) But yeah, i liked most of them... though Des/Penny is 'a bit' exagerrated (imo) Too bad some didn't work out in the real timeline, but ALT is where everyone is happy, or something.

But yeah, Kate/Sawyer/Jack is just completely screwed up. I was pissed they have Sawyer still having feelings over Kate that interfere with plot since, ya know, it's been THREE YEARS and he is still in love with Juliet. :smallsigh:

Hm... yeah, but it seemed to me it was so much more Juliet's jealousy instead of his feelings screwing things up. Too bad for her. But yes, Kate is 'teh trophy', and who gets her is the winner of the game. Until the very end, it seems.

ThePhantasm

2010-05-02, 11:30 AM

I'm not convinced that Sawyer still has feelings for Kate. He hasn't behaved as if he does. Just because he has been talking to her and around her for the past few episodes doesn't mean he likes her. In fact, the repeated references to Juliet through the past episodes have emphasized that it is Juliet he still loves, not Kate.

thegurullamen

2010-05-02, 01:35 PM

I don't understand this sentence. What's sweeps week?

It's one of the two major ways networks figure out the size of their shows' viewership. Basically, it's a week devoted to random sampling surveys where the networks show the best they have to offer to gain more points. Or, even simpler, bureaucratic capitalism.

I'm not convinced that Sawyer still has feelings for Kate. He hasn't behaved as if he does. Just because he has been talking to her and around her for the past few episodes doesn't mean he likes her. In fact, the repeated references to Juliet through the past episodes have emphasized that it is Juliet he still loves, not Kate.

This is true and I hope it continues to be so for the rest of the series. Unfortunately, being out of character and illogical has never stopped The Triangle before. Then again, they wouldn't foist it on us with so few episodes remaining, would they? (tearfully) Would they?

ThePhantasm

2010-05-02, 01:59 PM

This is true and I hope it continues to be so for the rest of the series. Unfortunately, being out of character and illogical has never stopped The Triangle before. Then again, they wouldn't foist it on us with so few episodes remaining, would they? (tearfully) Would they?

According to Damon Lindelof, shippers probably won't like the finale very much. I think the triangle is for the most part over (I hope!).

kpenguin

2010-05-05, 12:12 AM

Now, that was just heart-wrenching.:smallfrown:

ThePhantasm

2010-05-05, 12:41 AM

Now, that was just heart-wrenching.:smallfrown:

Yes, but I have a theory...

They aren't permanently dead because they will regain their memories in the ALT, thus "resurrecting" them in a sense and giving them all a happy ending.

That is what I suspect will happen. So all is not... uh... lost.

Still pretty gut-wrenching to watch though.

SDF

2010-05-05, 07:29 AM

Yesterdays episode was SO good. Probably one of the best, IMHO.

Mauther

2010-05-05, 02:54 PM

Szilard

2010-05-05, 05:30 PM

nd Next week is apparently Smokie's origin story? Yesss

You call him smokie too!? :smallbiggrin:

Arctic

2010-05-05, 09:20 PM

Jorge Cruz was on Attack of the Show and they tried to get him to spill some spoilers. He just said, "everyone dies" and everyone laughed. Who's laughing now?

And Next week is apparently Smokie's origin story? Yesss

Jorge Cruz? Who? If you're referring to the actor who plays Hurley, it's Jorge Garcia. :smallwink:

ThePhantasm

2010-05-05, 10:44 PM

You call him smokie too!? :smallbiggrin:

The majority of LOST fans on the internet either call him smokey or MIB.

And yes, supposedly next week is not just the Smoke Monster's origin story, but Jacob's as well. Hopefully (fingers crossed) much will be revealed and many mysteries explained.

kpenguin

2010-05-05, 10:47 PM

I think of him as Man in Black, honestly.

Szilard

2010-05-06, 12:03 AM

I know a friend of mine just calls him Blocke (Man in Black combined with Locke for those that don't get it).

thegurullamen

2010-05-06, 02:40 AM

I prefer the tropers' approach: puns.

UnLocke, the Man in Locke and my favorite, The Lockeness Monster.

pita

2010-05-06, 01:01 PM

I call him The Locke Ness Monster. A bit of a mouthful, but always elicits a laugh.
EDIT- thegurullamen stole my thunder. You totally stole my thunder, dude.

Mauther

2010-05-06, 03:10 PM

Sorry, used Jorge Cruz instead of the proper name. Its a nickname in our office. We joke that he's the Tom Cruise of the cast, and that somewhere on editing room floor there is a Top Gun-esque beach volleyball scene with all of the guys from Lost, with Jorge in the role of Maverick.

I use Smokie cause its the fastest. I like the Lockeness Monster but its too long and I like Flocke (Fake Locke) of Smocke (Smoke Locke), but Smokie has the more genial flow to it.

Kato

2010-05-09, 06:15 AM

Yeah, Smokey kind of... roles of the tongue or something. MiB keeps reminding me of other franchises and Lockeness Monster though funny is just so long.
I'm also quite exceited about next weeks episode, just hope they won't only prove all the stuff the fans have guessed or deduced so far but also throw in some new things.

Anyway, got a question to you, here. Since in my experience people around here are pretty smart and stuff you may help me.
So... why are there so many people who love 'The Constant'? I really don't get. I feel like everyone loves the episode and says it's their favourite of all time, but to me it's just a big chunk of cheesy love and ridiculous lack of any time travel logic. *shrug* So I miss something there, or am I just too insensitive to get that heart gripping love story which takes more than eight years for them toget together?

Szilard

2010-05-09, 10:14 AM

I love the Constant because it's Desmond and Faraday doing crazy stuff with time-travel, and that combination always makes an episode good for me.

factotum

2010-05-09, 12:58 PM

I'm wondering if Desmond is actually a Candidate. Locke didn't seem to be able to kill him directly, and it was a bit suspicious that the hugely deep well he got pushed into was suddenly only about fifteen feet deep when Sayid came to kill him on Locke's orders.

thegurullamen

2010-05-09, 09:10 PM

Hey guys, my friend and I are having an argument and I've hit a roadblock. Basically, he doesn't understand why it was necessary for the Oceanic Six to lie about the island for the safety of the island as Jack/Locke said. The island's gone. Even if they knew where it was or what it was doing, telling the world about it wouldn't affect the island one whit.

Which isn't to say there's no reason to lie. Covering their own asses and maintaining an appearance of sanity in front of the world, sure, we get that, but how does their action have any bearing on the island itself or its inhabitants?

Kato

2010-05-10, 10:33 AM

Um... on the latest post.... it is all knd of shady, as everything with the series, but the last people fnding the island tried to murder everyone. Of course there is no proof on that happening again. Though, Charles propably knows whom to approach if he has any questions. Of course saving the people should have been a much higher priority.
I always mostly went with the santiy thing because telling the truth sounds really weird, especially when part of it is 'we showed up near somewhere in Oceania but you better look all over the world because the ialnd vanished.'

Mauther

2010-05-10, 12:24 PM

Hey guys, my friend and I are having an argument and I've hit a roadblock. Basically, he doesn't understand why it was necessary for the Oceanic Six to lie about the island for the safety of the island as Jack/Locke said. The island's gone. Even if they knew where it was or what it was doing, telling the world about it wouldn't affect the island one whit.

I took it that the island was a magic mystery, and if you told the world you'd have everyone looking for it instead of just one crazy corporation.

Szilard

2010-05-10, 08:07 PM

Plus all the random murders that happened on the island, you wouldn't want to be arrested/have all the police looking for the island to arrest others.

Trog

2010-05-10, 09:59 PM

I've said it elsewhere at the beginning of this season and I'll say it again:

My theory behind the show's secrets. So far this whole season has borne it out.

The Locke/Smoke Monster is the "devil." The Island is hell. Specifically, the Eqyptian version of hell - Flame Island. Where a big black snake monster (Smoke monster) eats the souls of those who are judged to be unworthy. How to judge the unworthy? Why by the 42 principals of Maat, of course.

Amongst them:
#4 I have not slain men and women.
#8 I have not uttered lies.
#15 I have not attacked any man.
#16 I am not a man of deceit.
#23 I have terrorised none.
#42 I have not slain the cattle (men) belonging to the god.

The worthy are whisked off tot he afterlife. Like anyone on the list. Like all those kids that were on the list that got taken the first night - in the afterlife.

Locke wants off the island to be free and will end up killing all mankind. He is not allowed to kill the candidates for the same reason he was not allowed to directly kill Jacob.

The real question is candidates for what? To kill Locke? To replace him? To replace Jacob? Likely it is the position of saviour... a position that Jack's character has been primed for for the whole run of the show. Always wanting to save everyone but never having the ability to do so. So by... solving the smoke monster/Locke problem in whatever way... he will save everyone on earth, basically.

Knowing JJ Abrams and his love for the "question box" they will probably resolve the plot without explaining much about what happens, leaving the audience to either draw their own conclusions about the show's main questions or (as seems to often happen in reaction to his endings) be annoyed as hell that it wasn't spelled out in black and white for the audience.

kpenguin

2010-05-10, 10:30 PM

You know, people never complain about a certain other island based show never having all the answers spelled out for them...

chiasaur11

2010-05-10, 10:36 PM

You know, people never complain about a certain other island based show never having all the answers spelled out for them...

It's obvious there.

They're in robot hell, and Gilligan is the robot devil.

Arctic

2010-05-10, 11:19 PM

I've said it elsewhere at the beginning of this season and I'll say it again:

Knowing JJ Abrams and his love for the "question box" they will probably resolve the plot without explaining much about what happens, leaving the audience to either draw their own conclusions about the show's main questions or (as seems to often happen in reaction to his endings) be annoyed as hell that it wasn't spelled out in black and white for the audience.

Even though Abrams' last known direct contribution to Lost was the script to the season 3 premiere, "A Tale of Two Cities" (which he co-wrote with Damon Lindelof), and he had stopped being the main driving force behind the direction of the show as early as season 1, instead leaving Lindelof and Carlton Cuse as the showrunners, a considerable part of the (casual) audience still considers Abrams to be the man in charge of the show. This is mostly due to his high profile name, thanks to his past work on shows such as Alias, and movies such as Mission Impossible III and Cloverfield. The misconception is not helped by media often falling into the same trappings: On the one hand, specialized media offerings such as Entertainment Weekly or TV Guide have staff closely following the show and with close contacts to the cast and crew, therefore being quite aware of what Damon, Carlton etc. do. On the other hand, however, local newspapers, international media and even foreign TV stations that air Lost abroad often don't have such an in-depth insight into the specific responsibilities of the production team, and therefore often tend to consider the most high-profile name—in this case, Abrams—as the main driving force behind the show.

It's all about Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse (duo nicknamed "Darlton"). Not Abrams.

factotum

2010-05-11, 01:35 AM

Trog, if your theory is correct, how does it explain that people appear to be able to get on and off the Island?

Jaros

2010-05-12, 10:17 AM

Mauther

2010-05-12, 11:03 AM

I loved that episode when I was watching it, but the more I think about it, the more I think they could've done it better. I mean I still enjoyed it, but it doesn't add that much to the Island mythology.

Also, did anyone else see a slight resemblance between that woman and Olivia Colman?

I don't think it was an earth shattering episode, but that was always going to be a difficult one to pull off. Jacob and Smokie are the types of characters that are actually diminshed as they are explained. But the fans demanded, so the episode was needed. I'd rate it a B-, largely on the strength of the acting for Jacob and ManinBlack. It didn't really answer many questions, it just cemented stuff we already knew or had largely figured out by now. There was a degree of handholding to this episode that I felt let down by. For instance, the flasback (flashforwards?) to the discovery of Adam and Eve from season 1. Traditionally, Lost has left such minor call backs for the viewers to catch. Sort of an acknowledgement and reward for how detailed the fans are in tracking the mythology. That they would retreat at this late date to such conventional story-telling is disappointing. Unless that reveal is going to play a much bigger role in the finale.

There's more than a passing resemblance between Colman and Allison Janney, but that's kind of hard on Colman since shes about 15 years younger than Janney.

pita

2010-05-12, 01:04 PM

This was just a bad episode, I think. Very shoddy writing, didn't really answer anything (It gave us answers, they were just not satisfying. Except for why Locke Ness is a monster. Having him thrown into the essence of life and becoming death is a great idea), didn't give us any insight into Jacob and Locke Ness. I heard this was the greatest episode of the season, and it was very... meh. Titus Welliver and Mark Pellegrino are very very good actors (Locke Ness and Jacob, for those of you who do not follow such things), even compared to the cast of Lost, which is one of the best casts I've seen. But here they both fell flat. Jacob was an irritating man-child, and Locke Ness was whiny. The kids did a better job portraying the characters as they've been in the show than the adults did.

chiasaur11

2010-05-12, 02:24 PM

Yeah, kinda a sucky episode that sucked there.

Disappointing. We only had four hours and one was wasted on that?

thegurullamen

2010-05-12, 02:43 PM

I don't see where all of this dislike is coming from. I liked it. I think it fits really well with the small aspects of Jacob we've gotten to date (namely, from Ab Aeterno and the season five finale.) Actually, it does a pretty good job of explaining Ben's scene with/about Jacob as well. I felt the source and the wheel were handled a little hastily, but also consistently regarding their role in the mythology. Sure, it could have been done better, but I think it's a decent episode for what it is: a massively overdue expodump.

Trog

2010-05-12, 10:13 PM

Hmm... intersting bit there about Abrams not being involved for a while. I didn't know that. Not that he wasn't around when they figured out most of the fleshing out of the overall series, because a lot of that work had to be done in the very beginning. I don't mind Abrams and his "question box" but there are more satisfying ways to follow through on the writer's/rs' implicit promises made during the very first season - i.e. What is the island and the smoke monster, at the very least. So far it looks like they are following through on that. Which is awesome and whoever it was that decided not to leave the audience hanging - Abrams or "Darlton" deserve much props.

Trog, if your theory is correct, how does it explain that people appear to be able to get on and off the Island?
Well it's a physical location on earth, of course. We know from past episodes that it is hard to get to (and from) and that it can move around, but it is still anchored in the real world. The idea of the egyptian hell is a place where one goes to have your soul judged. Your heart is weighed against a er... holy feather of some sort (I forget the specific name of it) to see if your soul is pure. If it is, you move on to the afterlife. If it isn't, your soul is fed to the Devourer and destroyed forever.

So, yeah. My explanation. I'll add a bit more to it after seeing the latest episode which, again, holds up to my theory as far as I can tell.
Here we see the creation of two immortals (though we are never shown HOW this was done Jacob's mother states indicated that she has changed them somehow to be immortal and also makes it so Jacob and his brother cannot kill one another). The light in the tunnel that she shows them is the afterlife - where worthy souls go. My guess is, she is Maat or at least a descendant in the tradition of the being that was once Maat long ago. Either way, she fulfills this role. This would make Jacob Thoth then or the male "version" of Maat. Jacob's lists that he wrote up for the others add to the theme as Thoth was often shown, at the weighing of the hear, to be writing.

So... yeah. Egyptian hell - their weird between heaven and earth middle land where one is judged. Theory still holding up. Only a couple more episodes to go.

Szilard

2010-05-13, 11:22 PM

I think my favorite part is when Smokey asks "What's dead?" And I like how they played Senet. Or I think it's senet anyway.

Kato

2010-05-14, 02:27 AM

Hm... the episode was pretty average I guess. They did some good stuff but there was still a lack of many things (Okay, I guess they just didn't care to answer everything)
They said... something about the wheel... but apparently something is bugged there, unless Smokey did it again in a vain attempt to leave or so.
Also I really sympathize with Smokey now. Their 'mother' was a... okay, let's say I didn't give a **** when he killed her. Source of life or not even a guardian should have standards. Also I liked how Smokey was so much more awesome than Jacob (or so it seemed to me) but it seems over the centuries he has lost his knack. Or maybe not, not too sure there.
Finally, it kind of bugs me how they ended it and just assume us to belive everything is fine now... There's just too much about how it became a game and stuff which is still in question. But maybe that will change.

pribnow

2010-05-16, 07:23 AM

I had some difficulty with the episode as well.

The fact that bugged me most was that it seems to me the episode wasn't about the smoke monster at all, but only about Jacob. We know that the Smoke Monster can take on the form of any human being, his latest form being Locke and Jack's father before that. So now this episode tells us that the first form the Smoke Monster took was that of Jacob's brother. But what does that tell us about the Smoke Monster? Absolutely Nothing! He is just a big a mystery as he was before the episode.

And I was somewhat disappointed by the Cave of Golden Light as well. If it was meant to give an answer to the magnetism and time travel wheel, it really doesn't. It is just solving a mystery by giving a new mystery.

Oh, and I was also wondering about Jacob and his brother not being able to kill each other. Isn't it weird that the Smoke Monster would not be able to kill Jacob for the same reason? Or has the Smoke Monster some strong physical limitations dependent on the human form the takes on? Any thought?

One last thing that struck me as interesting was Jacob's mother telling her sons that they cannot leave the island. Nevertheless, Jacob seems to get off the island in the last episode of season 5, when he 'touches' all the Losties.

Jaros

2010-05-16, 07:58 AM

I saw it as the Smoke Monster is Jacob's brother, not just taken on his form, hence the whole 'wanting to go home' stuff and Jacob's brother (I understand they wanted him to retain some mystery, but at least give the poor guy a name!) being 'worse than dead'

pribnow

2010-05-16, 08:28 AM

Mmm, you may be right. But in that case he would just be a mean old twisted man. I always thought the Smoke Monster was some sort of Judge as well (Eko, Ben), and more connected to the island. Maybe he became that in time though.

Kato

2010-05-16, 01:32 PM

I'm also rather sure the smoke monster is Jacob's brother, at least to some extent. Pretty much his soul which got bitter over a long time. Don't really know how it is worse than death but I don't know how it feels either. (Or it's just dumb talk) Also, due to this the before only slightly important job of guarding the source in case people came across it became the much more vital job of keeping an angry, immortal being in check which's anger was caused by the guardian himself. (Of course we can't have it the old battle 'good vs evil' just being an arguement between two brothers but one needs to want to destroy the world now)
Finally... yeah, i wondered about Jacob being off the island as well... maybe it was some kind of astral projection? If he can leave the island... uh... yeah... I don't want to think about it. (Sending Richard would have been too easy of course)

Tiger Duck

2010-05-16, 01:47 PM

I think it is that ever sinds he became the guardian he could leave whenever he wanted to. I mean his mother could make it so that they could never kill each other when she was the guardian.

Jaros

2010-05-16, 01:48 PM

As the Guardian or whatever, he probably can leave, to do what he has to do, but Smoke Monster leaving would be a Very Bad Thing (although I think his leaving whilst human was just something his 'mother' didn't want)

thegurullamen

2010-05-16, 02:14 PM

I think Jacob got off of the island by using the lighthouse. It's got ties to all 360 candidates, shows their locations to him whenever he wants (at least, when they're not on the island), so who's to say he can't use it to project or teleport?

As a side note, I love how jaded 'good' and 'evil' get. Compare their portrayals this episode to the ones in Ab Aeterno and the season five finale and what you get are a pair of curmudgeon monsters arguing not over humanity's innate worth versus their destructiveness, but whether or not they can do anything good at all before they do something pointless, stupid, short sighted and/or evil.

factotum

2010-05-16, 04:25 PM

Trog

2010-05-16, 05:27 PM

The Smoke Monster and Jacob have to be linked in some way. Locke said that he could no longer take on a different form, and it's reasonable to assume that's because Jacob is dead--nothing else has changed that would be likely to cause that. There's also nothing to indicate the Smoke Monster existed BEFORE Jacob threw his brother into the cave, so I don't have a problem with the Smoke Monster still being Jacob's brother in some way.

What I'm more interested in knowing is when the "donkey wheel" got mounted--Jacob's brother never finished that work, and the cave it was happening in was buried, so how come the wheel was in place when Ben came to turn it?

Well the smoke monster has been able to turn into other people since the first season... since he had recently admitted to being the being who appeared as Jack's father (and, presumably, every other ghost-like being on the island - Walt, the Horse, etc.). Also Locke/Smokey/Jacob's Brother has been able to change from smoke and back at will throughout this season so I don't think Jacob's death has had much to do with his choice of form.

The smoke monster IS Jacob's brother because, in the episode where he was introduced and said to Jacob "You don't know how much I wish I could kill you" would have to take place after his smoke monster transformation as, before then, he got along reasonably well with his brother. If he had said this before he was tossed into the light I kind of doubt they'd be able to have such casual games of senet. Plus Locke/Smokey said he was once a man so... yeah. I think any other conclusion is sort of overthinking it.

And since all of his tribe was (seemingly) wiped out by his mother it's reasonable to assume that Smokey built the wheel by re-digging up the well and continuing with the work which his mother had merely delayed. But it would appear that that method of leaving the island doesn't work for Smokey because, if it did, he'd be long gone by now. It does, however, seem to work for mortals.

DomaDoma

2010-05-16, 08:53 PM

My stepdad is convinced that their "mother" was the smoke monster first. Given what she did to the proto-Widmores, and that she was killed with that dagger, I can definitely see where he's getting the notion, but all the same, Smokey does mention that he wants to go home an awful lot.

I guess the simplest explanation is that the Source created two different smoke monsters?

factotum

2010-05-17, 01:41 AM

Well the smoke monster has been able to turn into other people since the first season... since he had recently admitted to being the being who appeared as Jack's father (and, presumably, every other ghost-like being on the island - Walt, the Horse, etc.). Also Locke/Smokey/Jacob's Brother has been able to change from smoke and back at will throughout this season so I don't think Jacob's death has had much to do with his choice of form.

I know that, but "Locke" actually said at one point during this season that he can't appear as anyone other than Locke now--I was making no comment on his ability to turn into Smoke Monster and back into Locke.

Trog

2010-05-23, 11:34 PM

Why the ending to Lost sucked: A rant by Trog.
Well first and foremost is the whole JJ Abrams question box ending. Yes I know he hasn't been involved with it for some time but that doesn't change that the ending was in his usual style. I sense influence. Or if he is not to be blamed then let the blame lie with all of the writers. Shame on them.

The ending episode smacked of the a Hallmark Presents melodrama. Everyone ends up with someone they love (except uh... Hurley? wtf? Fat guy gets stood up at his own afterlife?). I saw this happy ending bit coming though. The alternate reality "flash sideways" storyline looked like it was tooling towards the happy ending from the very beginning of this final season. I was hoping, though, that there was a -point- to watching all that other than satisfying our curiosity as to "what if" the island never had existed. It's like it's trying to beat it's own fan fiction to the punch or something.

And instead they left it for everyone else to decide what the hell was with the island. I already have a pretty damn decent theory about it being the Egyptian afterlife. And the writers or producers or whoever were on the summing up show the hours before the finale when they got to Jacob they were all happy and satisfied sounding when they were like: So it turns out Jacob was just a man like everyone else. Them: :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin: Me: :smallannoyed:

Sorry but that's not really the important bit to answer. The important bit is HOW the powers of the island were at all possible. They smokescreen all this by having the dog run in at the last minute making it sort of seem like that jack really died in the plane crash or something. You can argue this or that.. it's not the point. The POINT is that they failed to deliver on the implicit promise of the show: What is the island is the question (or more succinctly: "Charlie: "Guys... where ARE we?"). Their answer: "..."

Only a few films and stories can manage to pull off the whole "let the audience decide what happens in the end" type endings and THOSE films usually have an obvious either/or option. Do they finally get together or do they not? Did they succeed or didn't they? This? This is a cluster **** of problems. None of which they adequately answered. It's a cop-out for an explanation. It's like having a whodunnit-type mystery where, in the end, they don't tell you whodunnit. And THAT... is, in my opinion, the definition of bad, lazy writing.

And also, my explanation still seems to work and fit even after the finale. Likely there will be other explanations that will also fit/work too. It's just disappointing that they didn't actually -CHOOSE- one and play it out. A mystery without an answer is a sucky mystery. :smallyuk:

DomaDoma

2010-05-23, 11:39 PM

Damn. The finale was doing so damned well, right up until they've all died and gone to ecumenical heaven.

I mean, I'm always for giving fiction the benefit of the doubt, but you see there, Show? You've destroyed that. Seriously, what a cop-out for the nature of the Sideways universe. They were wasting half the season on some meaningless River Lethe scenario? Blecha.

valadil

2010-05-23, 11:47 PM

I'm feeling a bit left out here. I actually enjoyed the last episode quite a bit. It was a disappointing end of the show, but as a standalone episode I had a good time with it.

Because this is a gaming forum I can explain why and y'all won't look at me funny.

I used to LARP. A lot. Not the foam weapons kind, but the every character is a PC and all their plots collide kind of LARP.

After a LARP ends, everyone gathers in a room and goes over their secrets. They explain what was going on behind the scenes. People who played enemies meet up and talk about how they tried to foil each other. Sometimes you even get people who played in other runs of the game and they'll tell you about how their run deviated from yours. After a long game, game wrap is a surreal experience.

And that's how the end of LOST felt to me. I know it didn't handle the explanation part. But the way everyone came together and laughed about it all. It evoked the same feeling I got out of a game wrap. I don't know if anyone else felt that way, but it certainly was effective on me.

-- edit --

No idea why, but Komm, Süßer Tod from the end of Evangelion feels very appropriate following Lost.

kpenguin

2010-05-24, 02:25 AM

I started watching Lost back when it all started, in September of 2004. I had just entered middle school then, at the tender age of 12, taking my first steps into teenager-hood.

I was enthralled. Not only by the mystery and the surprises of it all, but more importantly by the characterization and the character development. The flashbacks showed me tragedy. The story showed me redemption and change.

Over the next six years, I went through that change. Its the teenage/middle school/high school experience after all. It was a time of turbulence, of great joy, of great sorrow, of my world being shaken up and being put back together.

And that's what Lost was. An incredible rollercoaster of emotion and character development that went along with me. A constant, if you will, throughout those six years. Even as my friends one by one dropped off the Lost boat, I kept with it. I kept watching, kept sitting rapt episode after episode, season after season.

It was nice, really, to know that for a few months every year I could sit down on my couch on a fine Wednesday night and watch the show I came to love. Sometimes, it was the highlight of my week. Each time a season ended, I waited anxiously for more. Each time a new season began, it was like seeing an old friend again.

To say that Lost has a sentimental value to me would be an understatement.

Now, as I'm going through the final weeks of high school, legally an adult, readying for graduation and college and onto a new world, Lost ends and I am... satisfied. Mostly.

It didn't answer that much, as Trog pointed out. I, however, was never in for the mystery alone and answers were never what I wanted from this finale. What I wanted was an emotional resolution, for the characters to reach the end of their development, to resolve their issues. To move on.

And, by and large, they did. We see lovers reunited. We see enemies make their peace. Fathers and mothers and children and siblings and all that good stuff. We see Jack making the heroic sacrifice he was destined to do from the start. We see Hurley realizing his potential. We see Ben and Sayid confront their darkness and choose good.

We see the monster defeated without ever knowing its name, but I know who he is. He is stagnancy. He is lack of change. He is a man who has not changed for millenia, still hellbent on one goal and twisted by it.

Now, of course, it wasn't all good. I'd like to see things resolved for plenty of other characters not shown. Where is Michael being a good father to Walt? Where is Eko making peace with his brother? Where is Miles making peace with his father.

But, in the end, Lost's finale was emotionally rewarding. It was an ending that satisfied my heart, if not my mind. People who know me in real life would find this surprising, but I'm a sucker for such things. There was resolution. There was nostalgia. There was everything.

The lovers reunited touch my heart. So did Locke remembering, more than anyone else's returned memory. Locke was... is... my favorite character. I was sad when he died, sadder when he returned... different. When the Locke turned out to be unLocke, I accepted he was dead and I moved on with the story.

But... when he remembered... it was like Locke was back. And he had finally, finally, made peace with Jack... and Ben... and his life before the Island. A completted character arc. Beautiful.

And... wow, I'm really rambling aren't I? tl:dr? I like the ending. Simple as that.

pita

2010-05-24, 04:14 AM

I like what kpenguin said. And I like the realization that he's my age, and he got into Lost two years before I did.
Now, I don't like the idea that Ben, who committed mass murder, or Kate, who committed mass stupidity as well as murder, both got to get a reward in purgatory, while Michael, who murdered two people, was punished by being forced to remain on the island for eternity.

Kato

2010-05-24, 06:44 AM

Hey there. Uh... just to post an opposite to the two people before me... ^^' I started LOST when it started airing over here but got kind of tired so I must have drpped it somewhere in season 2. Spring this year I picked it up again and went through all the seasons in English. Yeah, so... all of it is in my head pretty scrambled together.

Um... it's not that I disliked the final epsiode but I was kind of underwhelmed. The island timeline was so apart from a few things so predictable I was actually surprised by the twists NOT happening (okay, maybe that was what they intended)

I liked Des being wrong. I disliked Locke being finished of that easily/early. Also, I was dissappointed by Ben not getting anything special to do.

ALT...

Last things first: ALT IS HEAVEN? What?!
Um... I liked the love thingies getting unwrapped. (Mostly Suliet because i thought it was cute and Claire and Charlie cause I am kind of a Charlie fanboy) But the other stuff was nice enough too.
I LOVED Terry being Locke again. I just feel so much more secure when his smile means 'Trust me' and not 'Be my tool, I know you want to.' Yeah, really, really loved that. Also his scenes with Jack and Ben. He's just great. (btw, was Hugo and Ben foreshadowing for Christian or did I miss something?)
Um... yeah... Christian... I refused to believe what he was saying but they made it an anvil unable to ignore. I guess it's an explanation as good as any.
What really annoyed me was the choice of characters in the ending. There was just no scheme to it. It was not limited to 815's, it was not candidates, not people alive, not people dead, nothing. Also, there were many people who should have been there, I guess. But whatever... I even hoped for Jacob and maybe even MiB to be there (priest or so) but no, guess they don't get to be in heaven. Hell, not even Miles got to be there. At least Ben was allowed to wait in front of the door.

Yeah... overall... I liked it good enough I guess, but being the finale of LOST it was just not good enough. It answered... like... ONE major question (what is ALT?) and everything else just turned out. Period. Also, still too many things don't make any sense...

Szilard

2010-05-24, 08:17 AM

I liked it. Had my favorite characters (Vincent and Faraday, even if only for a few minutes each), good story, and I suppose a good ending. As for everyone being dead... I didn't like that as much. But it was good up 'til then. Other than that, good episode all around.

Ironically, it was the only episode I saw on an actual TV. The rest I got from Hulu. :smalltongue:

chiasaur11

2010-05-24, 02:02 PM

Hmm.

Not bad. Glad I watched.

Also: I don't remember seeing Frank in the altworld.

Logically, this means he is immortal. Way to go, Frank!

Myatar_Panwar

2010-05-24, 11:32 PM

I just watched the ending and.... it was pretty good. Great, even.

There are still a couple questions/loose ends I would like dealt with (walt mostly), but they are surprisingly few in number, and I can live with that.

SDF

2010-05-25, 12:20 AM

(except uh... Hurley? wtf? Fat guy gets stood up at his own afterlife?)

Libby was in the church.

The actor that played Eko chose to leave and not continue on with the show. That's why they didn't get him back.

I didn't catch anyone outside of 815 survivors in the church, so my theory is Jack's desire to fix things and detonate the bomb let the other survivors get to see an outcome of what they would have had if Jacob hadn't taken their "choice" and forced them to come to the island. They are able to realize Jacob was correct in his speech that they were all flawed and needed the island like it needed them. I liked the ending in a way. There were one or two questions I still had, but felt it could have been a lot worse. The other thing that bothered me was faith wining out over science. Through most of the show that was a big point of contention. Could it all be explained through science, or was it a miracle you had to take on faith? Well the show and tell killed that mystery. Maybe it's how they planned it anyway.

Also, I was confused at how the world was going to end if Locke in black got off. Clearly removing the source turned them to men and killed the power, so he lost his rules, and his powers. Was he ever a danger then? If removing the source would have destroyed the world then it was never LockeIB that was a threat. I mean, he could trick you like Loki into doing something stupid that got you killed, set up some Rube Goldberg that you set off and destroyed you. It turns out he never really could do much of anything to anyone important. He was at a disadvantage the entire time, and didn't even really understand what was going on himself. Which again seemed to be the point, but seriously that dude got shafted as much as anyone else in the show.

Avilan the Grey

2010-05-25, 12:48 AM

All I can say after reading a lot about this is... It seems I made the right decision to stop watching the show mid-season 2... WAY too weird for me :smallbiggrin:

thegurullamen

2010-05-25, 02:42 AM

I loved it. Emotionally satisfying like 'whoa'. Sure, they didn't answer all of the questions (well, hardly any, actually,) but I think that would have held the show back. Too many scifi and fantasy writers get too caught up in the mechanics and capabilities of their universes and like to show their work Stephenson-style. And a lot of those are to the detriment of the work as a whole. There are dozens of gaps left in the Lost mythos, yes, but I think it's good they were left that way for 2 reasons:

1) Part of the fun of Lost was always the WMGing and this leaves open a vast amount of mysteries for the fans to puzzle out.

2) The show was never really about the island. It was about the people who visited and populated it, navigating its mysteries like, well, humans. Conquest, betrayal, love, kidnapping, loss, all of that epic adventure. That the finale was more about their fates and showing how they grew (loved how Deadmond was so wise and stoic: made him seem like a sagacious man, which he might have been, having survived the island and probably seen a ripe old age with his wife and son). All you have to do is look at every single episode ever made. They all have flashbacks, flashforwards, and flash-interdimensionals that outline not the island, but the people on it. Even the Richard, Jacob and Others' episodes were about the flaws of the characters and their relationships with the mystery and danger of the island serving as a backdrop.

In the end, what I take away from the island is this: who cares? Whatever the light was, whatever weird effects it had, or how it was guided, or whether it was controlling Jacob, or Ben, or Smokey; it all came down to an unknown (and likely unknowable) force that brought out the characters' humanity. And that's a good set up for the (sometimes average, but overall) great storytelling we got.

Myatar_Panwar

2010-05-25, 04:18 AM

I think the main problem people have with expecting answers, is that they are expecting scientific answers in a very spiritual setting.

Serpentine

2010-05-25, 06:02 AM

Dunno if anyone's already done this, in which case please point me to it.
Could someone please give me a summary of Lost? Please? Like... simpler than the Wiki, even?

Jaros

2010-05-25, 06:15 AM

There you go (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63dmgzc1jBE)

Serpentine

2010-05-25, 06:20 AM

'net's been shaped. No use even looking at Youtube 'til the 7th :smallfrown:

Jaros

2010-05-25, 06:43 AM

It's Hurley explaining what really happened to his mum early in season 5

Okay, so we did crash, but it was on this crazy island. And we waited for rescue and there wasn't any rescue. And there was a smoke monster, and then there were other people on the island, we called them 'The Others.' And they started attacking us. And we found some hatches and there was a button you had to push every 108 minutes or...well it was never really clear on that. But The Others didn't have anything to do with the hatches, that was the Dharma Initiative. They were all dead, The Others killed them. And now they're trying to kill us. And then we teamed up with the Others because some worse people were coming on a freighter. Desmond's girlfriend's father sent them to kill us. So we stole their helicopter, and we flew it to their freighter, but it blew up. And we couldn't go back to the island because it disappeared. So then we crashed in the ocean, and we floated there for a while, until a boat came and picked us up. And by then there were six of us.

Kato

2010-05-25, 09:08 AM

Just for the sake of it I'll place some spoilers.

I didn't catch anyone outside of 815 survivors in the church...
Yeah, except for Desmond and Penny and Juliet... Also, quite some 815s were not there, such as Michael and Walt or Ana Lucia. And Ben was invited but decided not to come. Nope, 'invitations' obviously didn't follow any clear rules.

Also, I was confused at how the world was going to end if Locke in black got off. Clearly removing the source turned them to men and killed the power, so he lost his rules, and his powers. Was he ever a danger then? If removing the source would have destroyed the world then it was never LockeIB that was a threat. I mean, he could trick you like Loki into doing something stupid that got you killed, set up some Rube Goldberg that you set off and destroyed you. It turns out he never really could do much of anything to anyone important. He was at a disadvantage the entire time, and didn't even really understand what was going on himself. Which again seemed to be the point, but seriously that dude got shafted as much as anyone else in the show.
Hm... it really is rather shady. Seems the source of light thingy is somehow important (almost expected Satan to jump up from that hole or something) but also Smokey's source of power... Or the game was over and the rules changed or something like that.
If Smokey had succeeded he would have probably been a normal human, in Locke's body and depending on how important the source is all he could have left the island and nothing bad would have happened. Though, if that plug really would have led to the apocalypse, he would have had nothing to go to. Obviously, MiB didn't understand how things worked as well as he thought. Neither did Jacob.

Syka

2010-05-25, 11:27 AM

I was pretty good with it up until the very end.

I know they said that the island wasn't purgatory way back in the beginning, but they also discounted time travel which, well, definitely happened. So...it could be.

Honestly, what I think is that the time on the island was real. The alt timeline was purgatory or whatever the inbetween is. Because it existed out of time, different people could die at different times but still show up at the 'same time'. An explanation for the missing people/non-815ers could be that it is people who specifically impacted Jack on the island.

I'm a little sad that they made it obvious that Jack is the main character. I liked it better when it was a true ensemble cast.

I'll admit...I'm a hopeless romantic, so I loved how it tied all the loose ends up. Especially that Sun and Jin got to be happy together in the end. Sayid and that one chick was a little sad, since they've played Nadia up as being his True Love but...what can you do? It makes sense, since they were both 815ers.

I didn't hate it, but I was a little underwhelmed. I think I saw it coming for...a while. A lot of theories I saw said similar things to how it actually ended so...well, there you go.

I'm sad it's over, though. I've been watching Lost longer than I've been dating Oz, lol (only by about a year, but it's still amusing).

Mauther

2010-05-25, 12:46 PM

Dude, your spoiler didn't work...
Anyways, I thought for what it had to be the finale was good. They had to have a happy ending, that was kind of the mood of lost as a whole. By the end, they had what 7 survivors out of 300+ passengers on flight 815, plus how many dozens of Others, freighter folk, Ajira flight 316, and Widmore vassals. They had killed pretty much every love interest. The only way to get a happy ending was to put it in the afterlife, cause that's where just about everyone already was. I prefer to think of the finale as two episodes: the island showdown was the finale, the Alt timeline/ecumenical heaven was the farewell. I thought the showdown went down about as well as could be expected, and a lot better than it could have. You had the inevitable Jack/Smocke throwdown, Kate coming to the rescue, Jack's reconciliation with Locke, the noncandidate worthies making good their escape (yeah Lapidus!), the apotheosis of Hurley and Ben's redemption. The church scene was just the farewell to the characters you have in every series finale. Its pretty much a requirement now adays, and with that requirement, I thought this was about as good as you were gonna get. The number of people I know who admit they were crying by the end was pretty respectable (crybabies!), so if it was maudlin, at least it was effective maudlin.

My main complaint with the complainers is how many of them miss the point. I've heard some pople claiming that the ending shows Jack dying on the beach with Vincent laying next to him, therefore he died in he crash and everything was a dream/death flash. Except you have Jack watching the Ajira plane fly away and he's wearing jeans/t-shirt and holding his stab wound. Others have claimed that end credits showing the wreckage implied everyone died in the crash. Except that wreckage shows foot prints all over the place, pretty heavily implying survivors. One of the complaints about the church ending is all the people not there (Michael/Walt, Ecko). But from what I could tell, only whose people who were important to Jack where in the church. That was Jack's specific moment. It (Christian) seemed to imply that everyone would have their own moment. that's why Ben stayed outside, he wasn't emotionally important to Jack (well not in a good way). Except Boone, who was there because the ladies love Somerhaulter (sp?) and apparently he's pretty cheap to get.

Things I loved:
All my favorite side characters escaped (Lapidus, Miles with the diamonds!, and Richard)
Rose and Bernard survive on the island
Hurley is The One, and Ben is a real great number two
Jack gets to martyr, twice
Smocke is killed by a fall (poetic justice)
Jack's creepy kid never really existed
Sun and Jin actually get together without fire, gunfights, beatings, or sinking

factotum

2010-05-25, 05:39 PM

Trog

2010-05-25, 08:39 PM

To all the people saying "Oh, that proves the island was purgatory/Egyptian Hell/delete as applicable":

Doesn't work. When Christian is talking to Jack in the church, he makes two things clear: firstly, the people in the church all died at different times, so they didn't all die in the crash of Oceanic 815; and secondly, he said the reason they tried to get together in the afterlife is because the most important time they spent in their LIFE was when they were all together. Thus, all the events that happened on the island are when they're all alive!

One other point: Hurley says to Ben that "you were a great number 2". This obviously refers to the bit on the island when Hurley got the Jacob job and asked Ben to help him, which again implies the events that happened there were real.

Reply:
Does work. You misunderstand me. They weren't dead... just in the physical location of Egytian "hell". I never believed they were all dead this entire time. Think live PCs adventuring in the Abyss or of Dante's Inferno if that helps you at all. Again, it was a place in between worlds where you were judged, etc, etc, see my previous post. They need not be dead to be there. It was a real physical location on earth.

The running egyptian motif throughout the show points to the island being the possible origination for the egyptian afterlife myth long ago. At the very least it clearly was a source of inspiration for the writers due to all the connections to egyptian mythology.

Believe what you want. I'll still believe that it sort of sucks not to get a definite answer from the shows' writers. But lacking an explanation, I'll stick with mine and I highly doubt I'll change my mind in that regard. Since, apparently, we are all left on our own to decide what it was.

Libby was in the church.
Really? Oh good. Yay for Hurley! :smallbiggrin:

kpenguin

2010-05-25, 09:01 PM

I'm going to reiterate what I said before:

No one ever seems to complain about the lack of answers from a certain other (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prisoner) island based show.

Avilan the Grey

2010-05-26, 12:56 AM

I'm going to reiterate what I said before:

No one ever seems to complain about the lack of answers from a certain other (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prisoner) island based show.

Of course some of us that do not complain about that are not doing it because of the same reason we do not complain about the lack of answers in Lost: We never cared about it enough to give a damn. :smallsmile:

I DO however complain about the lack of answers in the ultimate island based show (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitle0k5nsks4?from=Main.GilligansIsland). :smallbiggrin:

factotum

2010-05-26, 01:21 AM

No one ever seems to complain about the lack of answers from a certain other (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prisoner) island based show.

The Prisoner wasn't set on an island... :smallsmile:

Serpentine

2010-05-26, 01:31 AM

kpenguin

2010-05-26, 01:47 AM

The Prisoner wasn't set on an island... :smallsmile:

Maybe... see how little answers we got in The Prisoner? We never even knew whether the Village was on an Island or on a coast somewhere.

factotum

2010-05-26, 08:11 AM

Maybe... see how little answers we got in The Prisoner? We never even knew whether the Village was on an Island or on a coast somewhere.

Given they were able to drive all the way from the Village to London in a cage on the back of an articulated lorry, I'd say it was a coastal place somewhere in the mainland UK--just like Portmeirion, in fact! :smallsmile:

ThePhantasm

2010-05-26, 11:36 AM

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

Some of those mysteries were answered, but most weren't.

chiasaur11

2010-05-26, 01:59 PM

The Prisoner wasn't set on an island... :smallsmile:

And it gave us the lack of answers to a snappy Beatles tune, so everyone was okay with it.

Or not. People wanted Patrick McGoohan dead for that ending. Seriously, the Lost complaints are nothing in comparison.

Totally Guy

2010-05-26, 03:29 PM

Was the

"You were a real good number two."
"And you were a great number one."

a direct reference to the prisoner?

tiercel

2010-05-27, 04:37 AM

Eh. Honestly, I'd take my time back than this. Though Lost and its characters were intriguing for a time, the more I watched the more I felt like the writers were just jerking the chain to see how much they could get away with it, and the final season/finale was just the culmination of this.

Ranting ahead:

How many Other Other Other Other Other Other Other Others were there at some point in the series? Started to feel like the entire human race was on the island(s). Twice.

The nameless monster/"evil" Locke, after building and building and building a ruthless, terrifying, and even sympathetic presence, gets ingloriously one-shotted by the most mewlingly ineffectual simpering character on the show (yes, I'm looking at you Kate).

"Good" means inflicting a worse-than-death punishment with eternal imprisonment on your own brother for killing not only the woman who murdered your own mother but also all his friends and everything else he had in his life -- and then repeatedly manipulating lives to ensure someone will keep slamming the prison door in your brother's face in case he ever dares to settle the score. (And the poor schmucks can't get out of your devious machinations, they have to come back to fulfill your twisted will.)

"Evil" means just wanting to get out of an eternity of torture.

And the fatalism. I know there's a lot of "it's not the destination, it's the journey" sentiment to go around, but what was the point? Everything was destined to happen, often with mystic, you-can't-argue-with-me smugness. It's not clear what setting off the nuke or, indeed, any other character decision did in the end. Would it have even made any difference in the end if the island had been destroyed?

For those that enjoyed it, fine.. but by time it got to the finale, I was actively pulling for the "bad guy" (monster/"evil Locke") to win, kill off as many main characters as possible, and destroy the island. A little bit out of sheer perversity, sure, but much more because at some point what passed for the tangle of plot went so far over the horizon of "interesting puzzle" to "hopeless mess" that I was hoping for a Gordian knot resolution, as well as a breath of free will.

Kato

2010-05-27, 09:30 AM

How many Other Other Other Other Other Other Other Others were there at some point in the series? Started to feel like the entire human race was on the island(s). Twice.

The nameless monster/"evil" Locke, after building and building and building a ruthless, terrifying, and even sympathetic presence, gets ingloriously one-shotted by the most mewlingly ineffectual simpering character on the show (yes, I'm looking at you Kate).

"Good" means inflicting a worse-than-death punishment with eternal imprisonment on your own brother for killing not only the woman who murdered your own mother but also all his friends and everything else he had in his life -- and then repeatedly manipulating lives to ensure someone will keep slamming the prison door in your brother's face in case he ever dares to settle the score. (And the poor schmucks can't get out of your devious machinations, they have to come back to fulfill your twisted will.)

"Evil" means just wanting to get out of an eternity of torture.

And the fatalism. I know there's a lot of "it's not the destination, it's the journey" sentiment to go around, but what was the point? Everything was destined to happen, often with mystic, you-can't-argue-with-me smugness. It's not clear what setting off the nuke or, indeed, any other character decision did in the end. Would it have even made any difference in the end if the island had been destroyed?

For those that enjoyed it, fine.. but by time it got to the finale, I was actively pulling for the "bad guy" (monster/"evil Locke") to win, kill off as many main characters as possible, and destroy the island. A little bit out of sheer perversity, sure, but much more because at some point what passed for the tangle of plot went so far over the horizon of "interesting puzzle" to "hopeless mess" that I was hoping for a Gordian knot resolution, as well as a breath of free will.

... THANK YOU SO MUCH. Okay, not for the entirety of the post but I was starting to get the feeling I was the only one who started cheering for MiB much more than for Jacob, even in the end.

The inconsistency of the plot aside and the 'not-really-made-clear' consequences of destroying the source I would have been glad if he had have succeeded with destroying the source became human again sunk the godforsaken island and left to live a few normal years away from it. Wouldn't even have to kill the candidates. If we ignore the random killings which make about no sense considering his goal and the whhole bunch of semi-truths Jacob kept telling them they might have even helped him ending his eternal struggle. But noooo, the guy in white must be the good one so we better kill someone we don't know anything about.
Okay, I guess you can't just ignore half the plot (or more) to focus on the third-to-last episode but why come up with something like that so late just to then kill him off in such a pathetic way? (Getting shot by Kate that is)