LGBTitp - Part Five

[golentan]

Apparently my college just started an LGBT club/support group, Debating going or not. Seems like a good idea and they certainly are advertising well. A bright rainbow poster on every last bulletin board on the campus. Then again my paranoia might set in and be all "I've never known more than 3 other gay people in this college...and they're LWoCs. Something ain't right"

What's an LWoC?

And if you look at the odds, about 1/10th of people will be gay, give or take. Even on a small campus of 2000, that's a couple hundred folks. Plus, you might go to a mixer and find someone you were crushing on in secret. "I didn't know you where gay!" "You never asked." That always feels nice.

Also doubting the elaborate death trap. Though I'd avoid any suggestions of group showers, but that's good general advice. Never more than 2 people in a shower, or the logistics get difficult.

[Beelzebub1111]

LWoCs, eh? Not familiar with that one. I'm thinking Lesbians While on Campus?
Correct! You win the No-Prize! [/marvelnerd]


Plus, you might go to a mixer and find someone you were crushing on in secret. "I didn't know you where gay!" "You never asked." That always feels nice.
With the people I know from college? I don't think that's a possiblity, not that they wouldn't be gay, but that I'd have a crush on any of them.

And my paranoia isn't that it's an elaborate death trap, it's that..well...the posters are EVERYWHERE on campus, and there are a few groups on the school who are rather...unsavory towards perceived homosexuals.

[Jacklu]

New person started work at the gas station my coffee place is in. ... <.< >.> He is rather cute.

[Xzeno]

Darn my inability to stay current with this thread! Should I respond to old posts directed at me or try to stay with the current topic? For now, the topic at hand.


And if you look at the odds, about 1/10th of people will be gay, give or take. I thought the number was much lower. More like 1 in 100.


LWoC :smalleek: No further comment.


And my paranoia isn't that it's an elaborate death trap, it's that..well...the posters are EVERYWHERE on campus, and there are a few groups on the school who are rather...unsavory towards perceived homosexuals.

Sounds possibly a bit shady. Try and see if you can do some recon. Scope out the location before the meeting. Try to talk to those involved, but don't let on that you're investigating. You know, live the PI dream. If nothing else, it's a great way to kill an afternoon.

[Serpentine]

And my paranoia isn't that it's an elaborate death trap, it's that..well...the posters are EVERYWHERE on campus, and there are a few groups on the school who are rather...unsavory towards perceived homosexuals.All the more reason to show solidarity. And if, as I think you're implying, it is a trap for unsuspecting LGBTers, then better for many people to turn up than a few vulnerables!

[golentan]

I thought the number was much lower. More like 1 in 100.

Well, phone surveys tend to identify about 1% homosexual. On the other hand, people tend to have roommates/family members within earshot when answering the phone, and that's an awkward way to come out of the closet.

Person: Hello. No, I don't mind.
Person's grandma: Who is it?
Person: A survey, grandma. Yes. Yes. At 15. Gay.
Person's grandma: What?
Person: Counting my current BF? 6.
Person's Grandma: Oh god! This can't be happening.
Person: Women? Haha, no. Tried it and hated it.
Person's Grandma: This is why you invited your "Friend" from school to thanksgiving, isn't it?! Isn't it!
Person: Grandma, I'm taking the survey. We can talk about this later!

(this dialogue exaggerated for effect)

Other tests identify up to 15% homosexual to some degree, but 10% seems to be the standard number. There's also a strong problem of Incidence vs. Prevalence, and how... *ahem* dirty researchers are willing to get their hands for an accurate sample.

[Asta Kask]

That's interesting. I wonder if this indicates that 90% of all homosexuals are in the closet. Or if they just think "none of your business!"

On a lighter note - The WBC gets pwned (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Of_2ykZpQ)... again.

[Yora]

Isn't the number of homosexuals in the closet, by definition, unknown? :smallwink:

But again, I challange all of these numbers on the ground, that people can not be categorized into "gay" and "not gay".

The concept of homosexuality is less then 200 years old and originated in europe and the US, and other cultures adopted it as part of cultural imperialism.
Before that, some people just had sex with people of the same sex and were either labeled as perverts or not paid any attention. From what I know, there are no historical sources that categorize people into group A and group B.
But the idea, that a persons sexual orientation is an inherent trait like sex or hair color is rather new in human history.

And then people very often lie to each other or even to themselves when it comes to these things, or they might just not have noticed yet.
90% of all statistics are completely made up.

[Nameless]

Hmm? What's this about Abba? There some subtext here of which I was unaware?

I have to admit, I've very much enjoyed what I have heard of them. I was amused when I looked up a bit of info on them and found that they were one of the highest grossing things of their home country's GNP for a couple of years there. At least, I'm fairly sure that was Abba I'm recollecting.

Due to ruminating over Koorli's and the last two fairly young individuals (I believe 12 and 14) situation and Crimson Angel's mentioning of a book series in the RB thread, it came to mind to wonder whether any good series for teens/young adults as far as queer literature had yet arisen, or if the idea is proto-nascent at this point in time.

I suggest Manga. It's kind of hard to find one that isn't queer in one way or another. :smalltongue:

[Asta Kask]

Isn't the number of homosexuals in the closet, by definition, unknown? :smallwink:

We can estimate it.

[Yora]

How?

We have have a number of the base population, which is around 7 billion. Then we have a number of openly queer people, which has never been statistically counted. And we have a number of non-open queers which can't be counted.
And we don't know the rate of queer people who are out of the closet.

Even by the most open definition of "statistics" this is guessing. It doesn't even come close to estimating.

[Faulty]

Isn't the number of homosexuals in the closet, by definition, unknown? :smallwink:

But again, I challange all of these numbers on the ground, that people can not be categorized into "gay" and "not gay".

The concept of homosexuality is less then 200 years old and originated in europe and the US, and other cultures adopted it as part of cultural imperialism.
Before that, some people just had sex with people of the same sex and were either labeled as perverts or not paid any attention. From what I know, there are no historical sources that categorize people into group A and group B.
But the idea, that a persons sexual orientation is an inherent trait like sex or hair color is rather new in human history.

And then people very often lie to each other or even to themselves when it comes to these things, or they might just not have noticed yet.
90% of all statistics are completely made up.

Do you read Foucault?

[golentan]

Yora, I object to your disdain for the field of statistics. Mi Familia is largely statisticians (parents both in OR, which is the illicit lovechild of statistics, ergonomics, and simulation, sister in statistics, me having years of statistics and analysis behind me) and I can assure you statistics do not lie. The people citing them may lie, or use misleading measures (Mean when Median would be more appropriate, for example). And there may be test or selection bias or insufficient sample size for a good Chi-squared, though that's measurable. But statistics are amazingly accurate. The reason I referenced that the lower identifying surveys were phone is because I believe that's a case of test bias.

[Yora]

Oh I love statistics. And I consider myself quite good at it, which is why I object to the idea that you can estimate the percentage of homosexuals. :smallwink:
Statistic methods can do a lot of things, but the quality of the results always depends on the quality of the data you work with. And there's just no reliable way to get any quality data on something people don't want to reveal. It's difficult to get people to answer honestly at all. But when they are actually trying to hide something from you, it's just impossible.

Statistics never lie. But garbage in, garbage out. :smallbiggrin:

[Coidzor]

And my paranoia isn't that it's an elaborate death trap, it's that..well...the posters are EVERYWHERE on campus, and there are a few groups on the school who are rather...unsavory towards perceived homosexuals.

So you're thinking they're going to show up and lynch everyone? Or just sneak someone in with a camera to get everyone's photo for individual lynchings later?

I imagine thinking it's all a ruse for a lynching in and of itself counts as an elaborate death trap, just with the elaborate part in luring people in, and then somehow keeping it together for the 15-20 minutes necessary to prevent stragglers from showing up in the middle of the fracas.

[Yora]

Mr. you're now officially creepy.

[arguskos]

Mr. you're now officially creepy.
Cause Coid is SOOOO not creepy normally. :smalltongue:

Naw, we loves ya Coid.

[golentan]

Mr. you're now officially creepy.

So... not everyone thinks like that? You need to be more paranoid.

Of course, Coid, the best way to prevent such things is to arrive in large numbers with the presence of an authority figure, preferably a policeman. Best way to avoid it while still attending the event is to observe from a distance before entering 20-30 minutes late. Or arrive with a giant can of bear mace.

Or you could do what I did with my high school club (not LGBT): Arrange it on the premise that members will be assaulted and organize it as a nonviolent protest group to take advantage out of it and prevent risk of permanent injury. It's painful, but it can get you a lot of movement on the issue.

Also, when concerned about true hate violence arrive early, remove any unattended baggage, and sweep under the couches and through the trash cans for explosives. Also, having a mole in potential enemy camps is an invaluable resource, you can (if lucky) even have them the one responsible for feeding the enemy information about your group, allowing you to control the situation and force them to be reactive in addition to having early warning for dangerous movement. If possible, have all meetings conducted in a place with multiple exits and entrances, at least one of which is only accessible by your group. Post an early warning system outside, capable of messaging a warning about raids without being spotted.

Umm... Somehow I went from avoiding hate violence to a cell handbook. Most of my advice is unnecessary and or/inadvisable in most situations, I just have trouble ignoring the paranoid voices I've been taught to carry. Sorry.

[Beelzebub1111]

So you're thinking they're going to show up and lynch everyone? Or just sneak someone in with a camera to get everyone's photo for individual lynchings later?

I imagine thinking it's all a ruse for a lynching in and of itself counts as an elaborate death trap, just with the elaborate part in luring people in, and then somehow keeping it together for the 15-20 minutes necessary to prevent stragglers from showing up in the middle of the fracas.

It's not that I think that the club is a ruse, more like: malefactors see the posters. go to find out who's gay, and humiliate them/rough 'em up/harass them when they're alone.

That's how my paranoid mind is thinking it anyways.

[Xzeno]

So... not everyone thinks like that? You need to be more paranoid. [More stuff]

A superior capacity for violence will also go a long way toward protection. Never discount that.


It's not that I think that the club is a ruse, more like: malefactors see the posters. go to find out who's gay, and humiliate them/rough 'em up/harass them when they're alone.

That's how my paranoid mind is thinking it anyways.

That's a completely rational fear. I would not recommend not going to the club because of it, however. If, through intimidation, your enemies (or potential enemies) keep you and your allies divided, they win. If you are worried about harassment and humiliation, a strong network of friends and/or sympathizers is invaluable. If you are worried about being attacked, there's always the 'superior capacity for violence' thing.

[Serpentine]

How?

We have have a number of the base population, which is around 7 billion. Then we have a number of openly queer people, which has never been statistically counted. And we have a number of non-open queers which can't be counted.
And we don't know the rate of queer people who are out of the closet.

Even by the most open definition of "statistics" this is guessing. It doesn't even come close to estimating.Two studies are done, which may or may not be flawed (and I have yet to see a perfect study). One of these studies involves face-to-face interaction, the presence of friends or family, and/or other less anonymous, more "out" sorts of situations. The another is purely anonymous, no direct interaction, no chance of friends or family finding out, etc.
You subtract the results of the former study from the latter, and voila! You have an estimate of the proportion of homosexuals "in the closet".
Again, there's an excellent chance it's not very accurate, but that doesn't mean it doesn't give an idea. It's probably about as accurate as any other method.

[Coidzor]

Mr. you're now officially creepy.

I find bringing out a bit of hyperbole in regards to the fear/paranoia to the surface so we can all look at it and examine it gets to the heart of the issue more quickly.

Anyhoo, I'd already been officially labeled creepy by Dragonrider, IIRC. Never did figure out WHY, but, there ya go.

In other news, apparently my best friend and I (we're both guys) have a pair of doppelgangers that dated at one time and even got a gardening plot together.

[Yora]

The main problem with such a study is, that the subjects would not all trust the surveyor. And even if complete annonymity is guaranteed, people are still lying, both consciously and unconsciously.
It can probably be agreed that cultural factors will have a massive impact, so you'd have to include people from all over the world of all ages. How much effort people put into hiding their homosexuality will be drastically different if they are concerned that they grandmother might not be pleased, or they have to fear for their life. I'd say it just can not be done to get people to "act normally" regarding such a massively controversial topic.
There are means to detect lying in a statistical study, but these are very complicated and not very relyable, and it gets worse the more complex the study gets. And we haven't even yet defined homosexuality. If you make a study purely for homosexuals and heterosexuals, bisexuals and transsexuals will completely f.... mess your study up. And their number could range from only a fraction of a percent to more than half of the worlds population, so you'd have no idea how great the error would be. You'd have to understand the subject and approach it without hoping for any prefered outcome. Which at this time is still decades away.

Not to say you can not make an educated guess about the issue. But even under the best circumstances you could only make a guess about one small population of people in one area at one point of time. Making accurate estimates about the entire human race regardless of social norms however, would just be impossible.

[Serpentine]

Pretty much all these problems apply just as much to any other study in any other field you try to do. That doesn't mean they can't be a reasonably useful estimation.

Remember how I said this?
Abba is known as a "gay band".Well, my boyfriend just told me that a girl at his work assumed he was gay, based solely on the fact that he took an Abba CD to work.

[Yora]

Could it be that this stereotype is mostly an american thing? In Europe they were really big, long before there was any publically visibile gay community.

[Derjuin]

That could be it. I just listen to them because I like their music...=3

[Yora]

But I can definately see their appeal to camp. :smallbiggrin:

[Beelzebub1111]

This reminds me of a bit of a conundrum. I think Cathy Griffin is the funniest woman on the planet. She also has a huge gay following. Now...I'm not saying that all guys who like Cathy Griffin are gay, but If you are gay and like her, That pretty much means that your following the stereotype whether you like to think of it that way or not. Same goes for if you're Irish and like to drink, or if you're Canadian and love hockey.

[Lix Lorn]

Okay... and where's the conundrum? :smallconfused:

[Yora]

Or you are German and nitpick. :smallbiggrin:

[Nameless]

Remember how I said this?Well, my boyfriend just told me that a girl at his work assumed he was gay, based solely on the fact that he took an Abba CD to work.

Yay for generalising people.

[Pyrian]

I get a lot of flack for being Irish and generally disliking alcohol and potatoes. :smalltongue:

[Lix Lorn]

I get a little bit for not liking alcohol. XD

[Faulty]

Mixed drinks will solve all your problems Lix.

[arguskos]

I get a lot of flack for being Irish and generally disliking alcohol and potatoes. :smalltongue:
HERESY!! :smallfurious::smalltongue:

Everyone must like potatoes! It is a rule of the universe! Alcohol I could give or take, but POTATOES ARE AWESOME!

[Lix Lorn]

Nope, dun't help. I don't like anything remotely alcohol related. XD

[Closak]

Not me either.

I hate alcohol, it causes far to many traffic accidents due to drunk driving.

Not to mention that everyone i know becomes total jerks when they are drunk.

[Lyesmith]

I'm English, and from the Home Counties.

I wear a pressed, tailored suit at all times and carry a tea-set in a briefcase. I treat everyone with emotionless indifference, even my most intimate boon companions.

I wear a monocle.

[Lix Lorn]

Wait, where does the emotionless bit come from? O_o

[Closak]

He's a Nobody duh! :smalltongue:
They have no hearts and as such cannot feel emotion.

[Lix Lorn]

Phexazalira?

[Closak]

Pretty much yes.

Wonder what his power is...let's find out, FOR SCIENCE!

*Throws Aziraphale/Phexazalira in a room full of monsters and watches the ensuing fight to find out what his elemental power is*

Nothing personal buddy, i'm doing it FOR SCIENCE!

[Lix Lorn]

4 siense. Getitrite.


(Sneaks off before he notices Nobodyness and throws me in)


(Innocent whistle)

[Pyrian]

Everyone must like potatoes! It is a rule of the universe!How about if I just like french fries and chips (crisps if you're British)?

[Nameless]

How about if I just like french fries and chips (crisps if you're British)?

We actually use both fries and chips. Fries for the thin ones like you get in Burger King, and chips for the thicker ones. And the really fat ones are called wedgies. OMNOMNOM.
But yeah, we call your chips crisps. Silly Americans.

[Coidzor]

I think the more important question is how you feel about sweet potatoes.

And how many different forms of chips/fries you enjoy.

[Asta Kask]

Wait, where does the emotionless bit come from? O_o

English. Stiff upper lip. Grin and bear it. Bite the bullet. You know... :smallsmile:

[Lix Lorn]

Stiff Upper Lip doesn't mean emotionless. It means unbearably positive.

[Lyesmith]

Stiff Upper Lip doesn't mean emotionless. It means unbearably positive.

...I'm sorry, what.

No, no. The Englishman must remain refined at all times. Nary a smile nor a tear - we are as impassioned as the earth, and about as emotional. Cut out our hearts, and 'Dignity' will be carved into the flint.

[arguskos]

And how many different forms of chips/fries you enjoy.
This. Also, do you enjoy baked potatoes? Or twice-baked potatoes? If yes, all is forgiven. If no, then you shall be burned at the stake for your heresy. Nothing personal, just business and all that. :smallwink:

[Pyrian]

If it's a potato it had better be crunchy, that's all I'm saying. :smallamused:

[Lix Lorn]

...I'm sorry, what.

No, no. The Englishman must remain refined at all times. Nary a smile nor a tear - we are as impassioned as the earth, and about as emotional. Cut out our hearts, and 'Dignity' will be carved into the flint.

Pfffft. I'm English and I'm as emotional as they come.

[Lyesmith]

Pfffft. I'm English and I'm as emotional as they come.

Someone is contradicting themselves. You are evidently not stereotypically English enough. How many cups of tea do you drink per day?

I'm not actually brilliant with emotion, but this is probably less of an English thing than and more of an "FML of the year award" thing.

[arguskos]

If it's a potato it had better be crunchy, that's all I'm saying. :smallamused:
...your heresy is overlooked... for now. We are watching though, and we are waiting for a slip-up. Then, BAM! We'll be there. *insertsinisteremotehere*

And now, back to your regularly scheduled non-threadjack!

[Lix Lorn]

The crux of the matter is, I am English, yet not even slightly sterotypically so. :smallbiggrin:

[Lyesmith]

The crux of the matter is, I am English, yet not even slightly sterotypically so. :smallbiggrin:

Which part of England, though? The south is typically much more unfeeling, wheras the north is renowned for displays of certain types of emotion.

[Lix Lorn]

XD South Coast, West Sussex, near Portsmouth.

[Lyesmith]

XD South Coast, West Sussex, near Portsmouth.

Ahhh. Alright, then. Also, woo, sussex! Goin' there for Uni, if all goes well.
Merciless teasing about it being near Brighton ensued. >.<

[Lix Lorn]

XD
QED.

(grins)

[Fay Graydon]

*lurks*
>.>
<.<

[Jacklu]

Wow! This is certainly an interesting discussion! ... Gay Brits? Something about fishing for Doritos or....

=P

In actual LGBT news: I have concluded that boy at work is quite straight. .-. Oh well.

[Fay Graydon]

Wow! This is certainly an interesting discussion! ... Gay Brits? Something about fishing for Doritos or....

=P

In actual LGBT news: I have concluded that boy at work is quite straight. .-. Oh well.

*giggles and flicks through my phone book* ooh i could give you a list of gay brit boys :smalltongue:

[Nameless]

Wow! This is certainly an interesting discussion! ... Gay Brits? Something about fishing for Doritos or....

http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/daffyd-poster-little.jpg

:smalltongue:

[golentan]

So, did you hear? A school in New York was prosecuted under title IX for gender behavior discrimination against a gay student. First time in a decade that the legal system has used that interpretation. Yay for active defenses! :smallbiggrin:

(Seriously, the school were jerks. The student was picked on, and when he went to faculty a teacher told him to "Hate himself every day until he changed."):smallfurious:

[Fay Graydon]

So, did you hear? A school in New York was prosecuted under title IX for gender behavior discrimination against a gay student. First time in a decade that the legal system has used that interpretation. Yay for active defenses! :smallbiggrin:

(Seriously, the school were jerks. The student was picked on, and when he went to faculty a teacher told him to "Hate himself every day until he changed."):smallfurious:

Human kind in general are 99% <Insert choice word for "Not nice people" here>

[Faulty]

The niceness of people depends on where you look.

[Serpentine]

Could it be that this stereotype is mostly an american thing? In Europe they were really big, long before there was any publically visibile gay community.Considering I'm in Australia, no. But Abba is (or was) peculiarly popular (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U4kDzwZAMk) in Australia. But then, we also have a peculiar relationship with homo (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109045/)sexuality (http://www.mardigras.org.au/).

Goletan: Good on him!

[Serpentine]

:confused:

Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras is an annual gay pride parade and festival for the LGBT community in Sydney, Australia... The first Mardi Gras was held on June 24, 1978 at 10pm as a night-time celebration following a morning protest march and commemoration of the Stonewall Riots.[4] Although the organisers had obtained permission, this was revoked, and the march was broken up by the police. 53 of the marchers were arrested.[5] Although most charges were eventually dropped, the Sydney Morning Herald published the names of those arrested in full, leading to many people being outed to their friends and places of employment, and many of those arrested lost their jobs as homosexuality was a crime in New South Wales until 1984...It's the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras. It's their event. Heterosexuals didn't "let themselves get excluded" - homo-etc-sexuals created it for themselves. Moreoever, it's a seriously big event. If heterosexuals really are excluded from it, then Australia must be the gayest country in the world.

[Serpentine]

It's a ginormous LGBT-themed street party and festival in the middle of Australia's biggest city. Good luck keeping out non-queers.

[Coidzor]

It's a ginormous LGBT-themed street party and festival in the middle of Australia's biggest city. Good luck keeping out non-queers.

I think you're misunderstanding the sort of confusion I was experiencing. But I'll just leave off there.

[Serpentine]

So what was your confusion? It sounded like you were surprised that it's not gay-only, to me.
Or was it more the "mardi gras" bit? Cuz we don't have anything like the international Mardi Gras in Australia, and the choice of that name for the festival is more of the generic than specific variety.

edit: Ricky Martin is (openly) gay! =O

[albis]

edit: Ricky Martin is (openly) gay! =O

Seriously? *laughs uncontrollably* my sister's gonna have a fit when she hears this XD

[MickJay]

Yeah, it's still on the front page in the Entertainment section on UK BBC website.

[The Rose Dragon]

edit: Ricky Martin is (openly) gay! =O

Does that mean I have a chance of bedding him?

Yay! :smalltongue:

((You know, as a straight guy, I should stop making jokes about bedding male people.))

[Lix Lorn]

Hey, it could be worse, John Barrowman's gay and I want to be a girl. XD
(The whole married happily thing is irrelevant. IRRELEVANT. 8D)

[Yora]

So, if you two become a couple, at least one of you is bound to be unhappy?

((You know, as a straight guy, I should stop making jokes about bedding male people.))
You may call yourself whatever you like to. :smallamused:

[MickJay]

((You know, as a straight guy, I should stop making jokes about bedding male people.))

Yes, you should. It's cruel, not to mention unusual, to those who'd actually fancy bedding YOU :smalltongue:

[The Rose Dragon]

Yes, you should. It's cruel, not to mention unusual, to those who'd actually fancy bedding YOU :smalltongue:

Well, honestly, I would only consider sleeping with two guys in the whole world, both of whom are married and one of them has Parkinson's.

For those who are wondering who my exceptions are, they are Michael J. Fox and David Duchovny.

[Nameless]

Hey, it could be worse, John Barrowman's gay and I want to be a girl. XD
(The whole married happily thing is irrelevant. IRRELEVANT. 8D)

It would be gunny if Johhny Depp turned out to be gay. :smalltongue:

[Beelzebub1111]

As far as celebrities go, My list is Joel McHale, Neil Patrick Harris, and Noah Antwiler (yes, I'd spoon with spoony)

[The Rose Dragon]

As far as celebrities go, My list is Joel McHale, Neil Patrick Harris, and Noah Antwiler (yes, I'd spoon with spoony)

Well, the good part is that one of them is gay. So, you know, you have a shot.

[CrimsonAngel]

Here, have spoiler. Tred wisely.
In art class today, my friend asked me to give him a hand job; he actualy got his pants around his knees before the teacher yelled from across the room to sit down. (she didn't see)

And now I just can't stop thinking about it, he makes jokes like that all the time but he looked realy serious. >.<

EDIT: Wait, is it okay to post this if in a spoiler?

[Calamity]

He did that in class? Yeah, I'd be a little concerned about that.

[CrimsonAngel]

I'm not realy concerend. Just confused if he's serious or not. He's actualy pretty cute.

[Fay Graydon]

edit: Ricky Martin is (openly) gay! =O

Who's Ricky Martin?

Hmmm Also I wonder what Ryan Reynold's Marital status is :smallbiggrin:

[King_of_GRiffins]

I'm not realy concerend. Just confused if he's serious or not. He's actualy pretty cute.

I'd agree with being a little concerned too, but if you're curious, the best thing to do is just sit him down and talk. Maybe subetly tell him you'd be interested in spending more time another way and do so. Then maybe tell him class is not the best place to do that :smallwink:


@Celebrities
I normally don't even keep up with the names of celebrities, but I think I totally qualify for the "David Tenant, why don't you marry me?' fan club. :smallredface:

[The Rose Dragon]

Hmmm Also I wonder what Ryan Reynold's Marital status is :smallbiggrin:

Married to Scarlett Johansson.

[CrimsonAngel]

Why did I think it was Scarlett Joe Hanson?

[Mystic Muse]

Hey, it could be worse, John Barrowman's gay and I want to be a girl. XD
(The whole married happily thing is irrelevant. IRRELEVANT. 8D)

wait, you aren't a girl? no, offense. That's just the impression I got.

[Fay Graydon]

Married to Scarlett Johansson.

Who's she?
Also.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! D=
Oh Ryan! Why would you break my heart so! T.T

[Lix Lorn]

Kyuubi? Do you know how happy you just made me?
(Dances in meadow with flowers)

[Dogmantra]

Yeah, Lixxy, I always thought you were female, until I read that you weren't.

[Fay Graydon]

Kyuubi? Do you know how happy you just made me?
(Dances in meadow with flowers)

*takes a wild guess and guesses that your like me and TG*

[The Rose Dragon]

Who's she?
Also.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! D=
Oh Ryan! Why would you break my heart so! T.T

You know, you could just Google them and look up their Wikipedia pages, instead of asking all these questions about celebrities.

Just a thought.

[Fay Graydon]

You know, you could just Google them and look up their Wikipedia pages, instead of asking all these questions about celebrities.

Just a thought.

Wi-ki-pedia? *looks at you as if you (or possibly me) was mad*
:smalltongue:

[Lix Lorn]

*takes a wild guess and guesses that your like me and TG*

Guess is correct! ^_^ (Hugs all)
(So, so very happy)

[Fay Graydon]

Guess is correct! ^_^ (Hugs all)
(So, so very happy)

well the way i look at things. Just cuz were in male bodies doesnt mean we're male hun!
I think and act like a women.
So as far as im concerned i am one! :smallbiggrin:

[Lix Lorn]

I'm pretty sure I am!
THough i worry sometimes that half my evidence is based on stereotypical femininity. :smalleek:
Ohwell. Still got the other half.
Plus fooling people here. XD
(Still happy)

[The Rose Dragon]

Strangely, I thought of Lix Lorn as a guy until I read... Lix's posts here.

Languages with different pronouns for sexes confuse me. Especially when talking about... well, you know.

((I refuse to use the terms transgender and transsexual on grounds of scientific correctness. :smalltongue:))

[arguskos]

Is it bad that I never assign genders/sexes/whatevs to folk until they declare it publicly? :smallconfused: As far as I'm concerned, you are what you say you are, and nothing else (this makes albis a computer construct currently :smalltongue:).

[Lix Lorn]

Heehee. What's unsciencey about them? The terms Transsexual/Transgender that is?

[The Rose Dragon]

Heehee. What's unsciencey about them? The terms Transsexual/Transgender that is?

Well, transgender assumes that the binary gender theory is correct and there are proper ways for males and females to act according to their sex. I don't think my sex has anything to do with my behavior, therefore I don't think the gender theory is correct, therefore being trans in something that doesn't really make sense feels wrong.

Transsexual assumes that one's sex can be changed from male to female or from female to male. It would be really nice if we could, but our current knowledge of biology doesn't allow that, since sex is a very complex interaction of genes, epigenetics and phenotype. Until we perfect practical gene therapy, SRS will sadly remain superficial.

But it is my solemn vow that I will start researching that topic as soon as I find the secret of biological immortality in humans.

[Lix Lorn]

Fair enough. (nods) But society feels we need to use a word, and those two are the preferred terms. XD

[Jacklu]

Well, transsexual is an actual term used by medical professionals to refer to a person whose physical sex does not match their desired or self perceived sex. So in that way it is a legitimate term. And discounting transgender because of some ambiguity and fluidity inherent in the nature of the subject isn't fair either, as there are many such things in "hard science." Hell, most of what we understand about human psychology is as transient in nature as gender but it doesn't make terms such as depression and subconscious any less valid in terms of their meaning and application and use in understanding the human condition.

[The Rose Dragon]

Hell, most of what we understand about human psychology is as transient in nature as gender but it doesn't make terms such as depression and subconscious any less valid in terms of their meaning and application and use in understanding the human condition.

Yes, but subconscious and depression are inherent in the person. Gender is a sociological construct enforced by the society.

[Jacklu]

Which doesn't invalidate the term. Somebody who acts in opposition to the social preconceptions of their physical sex is still doing so regardless of whether they agree with the legitimacy or justice of such preconceptions. The fact that gender in its nature lies outside of you and in your social surroundings also implies that it is not your choice whether the term is applied to you or not, unfortunately. It is similar to the people who maintain that Pluto is still a planet. The simple fact of the matter is that the consensus reality established by society includes gender and dwarf planets. Disagree or not, the fact remains that both are still legitimate scientific terms, though their actual definition (at least in the case of gender) is somewhat fluid.

[The Rose Dragon]

The fact that gender in its nature lies outside of you and in your social surroundings also implies that it is not your choice whether the term is applied to you or not, unfortunately.

However, there is no basis for the definition of gender in the first place. It assumes there are inherent social and cultural differences between the sexes. There are certainly mental differences, but they are, in my experience, not nearly pervasive enough to create a binary gender definition.

If gender really exists, it can only be a spectrum, not a "guy-girl" switch, considering the variety of human behavior and thought patterns out there. Transgender assumes that there are only two genders, which I don't agree with, and believe is an outdated mode of thinking.

For example, males can have protective instincts for their offspring stronger than some females. Males can be less interested in physical competition than females. Males can be more interested in, say, knitting than females. That doesn't magically make them "girls" or anything female related. They are still "guys" and male.

[AmberVael]

As I've noted before, I do believe the definition and perception of gender (masculine/feminine, etc) is indeed shifting. This makes gender a really tricky and annoying concept to try and deal with.

Currently, I find it is best defined and recognized as a collection of traits stereotypically assigned to a sex. As you've pointed out, Rose Dragon, it is obviously not the case that these traits are always tied to sex, or indeed, even usually tied to sex. So in my perception, and probably if you want to use the term, the best way to look at it is as a collection of terms and implications not necessarily related to biology at all (except in terms of the physical brain, but I think you get what I was trying to say).

This does leave transgender as sort of a gray area, but hey, not like that is anything new.

Transsexuality, on the other hand, is quite clear, simple, and denying it is pretty difficult to do. While literally you might interpret it the way you did, that's not really what the definition of transsexuality is (etymology does not always give a correct definition, after all). It does not assume that you can change sex- merely that you can desire to, and move towards that as best you can. A transsexual is one who desire to be of a sex that they are not.

[The Rose Dragon]

I am not denying the existence of people who are not comfortable with their sex. I merely disagree that the label used to identify them is fitting.

Then again, linguistics has always terrified me, so I probably am not the person to change it.

[AmberVael]

I am not denying the existence of people who are not comfortable with their sex. I merely disagree that the label used to identify them is fitting.

Then again, linguistics has always terrified me, so I probably am not the person to change it.

Well, it's too late to change it now, it's close enough, so whatever.

But my real point is that etymology is never entirely accurate. It's how language changes so much, after all. If our combination of prefixes and suffixes was perfect and without flaw, entirely modular, language would be a lot easier, and might not have evolved nearly as much, if at all.

To try and say "that isn't accurate" about the way a word is put together really just belies a misunderstanding of how the system works. The word isn't about how it is constructed. The construction is merely a convenience. The definition is something we give to it, not that the word gives to itself.

If I renamed transsexuals tabobs, you'd have no complaint, because you'd have no preconceptions about the word tabob at all. The only thing getting to you about transsexual is that you have preconceptions about it. My point is- that preconception doesn't make the definition of the word. The definition makes the definition of the word.

Prefixes and suffixes may give you some implications, but don't use them over the real definition.

[Derjuin]

I really wish I was able to keep up with this thread better in the past few days. *pouts* I'm TG as well, Fayte =3

And with regards to wording...I don't know how else to let people know what it is I feel. It's hard to say "I'm -this- way", then they ask "What do you mean" and then I have to explain every other term used instead of just saying "I'm TS/TG/Whathaveyou".

[Serpentine]

For the record (not that it matters, but I hate it when I know others agree with me on something but stay silent), I'm with THE Rose Dragon on transgender, and Vael on transexual.

[Derjuin]

I'm in a bit of a bind...

I am not sure if it's particularly possible, but I'd like to work on my fashion sense a bit, considering normal wear for me looks the same 90% of the time, just a different color shirt (sometimes not even that), slightly different jeans and the same shoes. I assume my friends and family aren't comfortable enough with this yet (I inferred this from the fact that they either don't respond or change the subject when I try to talk about clothes, I may be wrong though), so I was wondering...

What in the world can I do to improve, without relying on friends and family? :smallfrown:

[Elentari]

I'm in a bit of a bind...

I am not sure if it's particularly possible, but I'd like to work on my fashion sense a bit, considering normal wear for me looks the same 90% of the time, just a different color shirt (sometimes not even that), slightly different jeans and the same shoes. I assume my friends and family aren't comfortable enough with this yet (I inferred this from the fact that they either don't respond or change the subject when I try to talk about clothes, I may be wrong though), so I was wondering...

What in the world can I do to improve, without relying on friends and family? :smallfrown:

All I can say is: maybe try different colors and patterns than you normally wear? Try going outside your comfort zone a little? Also, go shopping and get some cute shoes :smallbiggrin:

[Serpentine]

What about layers? I like wearing t-shirts over long-sleeved tops.

[Coidzor]

You figure out if you're a spring, summer, autumn, or winter, complexion-wise?

I believe that's the source of the idea of the term color chart. Or possibly that's just linked with the qualities of ones' eyes.

Have you determined what colors go nicely with your skin tone yet or are you still in the process of ascertaining that?

[Derjuin]

I haven't done any looking into figuring either of those out yet, as I had no idea where to start...Shall I google it up?

[Elentari]

You could, I guess. Also, I think if you go to a big department store that has those makeup counter things, they can help you figure out what goes well with your complexion? Someone correct me if I'm wrong....

[Fay Graydon]

*Try's to read the wall of text and gets a headache*

Well TBH I don't care what other people identify someone as Female, Male, Transgendered or Transsexual.
In my own opinion, a "Gender" should be the Sex that you consider yourself in your own head.

And I'm determined to make my outside appearance match my internal... thingy >.>
I'm Currently waiting to see if my GP is able to get funding to go through the long process of Gender Reassignment Therapy (or whatever those Monkey's in suits call it these days :smalltongue:)

[Nameless]

*Try's to read the wall of text and gets a headache*

Well TBH I don't care what other people identify someone as Female, Male, Transgendered or Transsexual.
In my own opinion, a "Gender" should be the Sex that you consider yourself in your own head.

And I'm determined to make my outside appearance match my internal... thingy >.>
I'm Currently waiting to see if my GP is able to get funding to go through the long process of Gender Reassignment Therapy (or whatever those Monkey's in suits call it these days :smalltongue:)

*snorts* I just got the funniest image of my GP as a monkey in a suit. :smallbiggrin:

...

Okay, I'll go back to my creepy lurking now. *lurklurklurklurklurk*

[Jacklu]

Not so fast! *drags Nameless out of lurking* *snuggles mercilessly* =3 ^_^

[Nameless]

Not so fast! *drags Nameless out of lurking* *snuggles mercilessly* =3 ^_^

ONOZE. I’ve been captured by the Snugglesaurus!

:3

[CrimsonAngel]

*shoots the snugglesaurus in the head with a harpoon gun.*

I saved nameless!

[Ilena]

Awwww thats mean! *huggles snugglesaurus back to life*

[CrimsonAngel]

*shoots Crixon with the harpoon gun* *shoots the snugglesaurus again* I will protect nameless with my harpoon gun of DOOM!

[Nameless]

Yay harpoon gun of doom!

Wait, what?

[CrimsonAngel]

Nameless, I hjave determined that you are a threat to yourself. Prepare to be terminated.

[Nameless]

Nameless, I hjave determined that you are a threat to yourself. Prepare to be terminated.

Yaaaaayyyy!

[Ilena]

*cries* ive been shotted! tis horrible! :(

[Nameless]

*cries* ive been shotted! tis horrible! :(

*gives plaster* o3o

[Yora]

DOOM!!!!!!

[Lix Lorn]

(protects nameless) No-one hurts the one with no name. -_- NOT ON MAH WATCH.

I need to TALK to my GP. O_o

[Nameless]

*climbs on Lix's back* o3o

[Lix Lorn]

(Changes to Wolf)
Arf. XD

[Faulty]

I'm going out and browsing the women's sections of clothing stores BY MYSELF which scares the **** out of me so like. Wish me luck.

[Lix Lorn]

Good luuuuck! <3

[Elentari]

Good luck! Hope you find something you like!

[MoriHikari]

good luck Faulty!!:smallbiggrin:

[Fay Graydon]

Good luck Faulty!
Which reminds me in need new Underwear >.>

[Faulty]

I walked into H&M, almost had a heart attack, left, went to a store where there were literally on 3 or 4 other customers in the whole place, wandered around, didn't find anything I liked, went to Pharmaprix, bought a cream soda to drown my sorrows. :<

[SMEE]

Hint, when out of courage to pick them up and try, just do some eye measuring and pick them for your "sister", "cousin", "friend", "girlfriend", etc.

I did that at the very beginning.

[AmberVael]

Alternately, you can just say "Look, a three-headed monkey!" and then run while their backs are turned. :smalltongue:

[Jacklu]

*hugs Faulty* What Smee said.

EDIT: Especially what Amber said. ^_^

[Faulty]

Hint, when out of courage to pick them up and try, just do some eye measuring and pick them for your "sister", "cousin", "friend", "girlfriend", etc.

I did that at the very beginning.

I'm just worried I'll get the wrong size, or it'll look bad. I guess I can return it, though.

[golentan]

Eh, the most mortifying has to have been my anniversary.

My GF demanded lingerie. So I went into Victoria's Secret to pick something out for her, because it was supposed to be a surprise and she wanted me to shop there. While I went through a pile of lacy underthings looking for something nice, the entire staff comes over to help because they find this amusing. It was the most embarassed I've been in my life.

Of course, this was my GF with a thing for crossdressing men. And nobody believed I was getting them as a present for her when I had to ask if there was a male changing room, or what my size would be. :smallredface:

[Coidzor]

My GF demanded lingerie. So I went into Victoria's Secret to pick something out for her, because it was supposed to be a surprise and she wanted me to shop there. While I went through a pile of lacy underthings looking for something nice, the entire staff comes over to help because they find this amusing. It was the most embarassed I've been in my life.

That is the exact antithesis of a surprise.

[golentan]

That is the exact antithesis of a surprise.

The specific articles were supposed to be.

[Coidzor]

The specific articles were supposed to be.

You were following a command which was unspecified in what exactly the form the lingerie had to come in. So, still not a surprise. Now if she wanted things for herself but you were just getting things for yourself as part of some kind of crossdressing sexual favor, then it could reenter the realm of a surprise, but you didn't provide enough information for that to be determined.

As it stood you just made it sound like your g/f demanded you go to buy yourself lingerie so she could have debauched fun with it later.

Though I have to admit, heading into a victoria's secret to buy lingerie to wear on your body without any inkling of your measurements was a bit silly. I mean, that's what the internet is for, yo.:smallwink: I believe I'm about a 38 or so in terms of the chest circumference thing, last I checked with a tape measure.

[Serpentine]

*snorts* I just got the funniest image of my GP as a monkey in a suit. :smallbiggrin:I just got an image of my mum as a monkey in a suit! :smalleek:

For a real surprise, he should've gotten her steel-capped boots :smalltongue:
If Conrad Poohs (he was around here for a little while...) can do it, you can too! :biggrin:

Went into a women's clothing store and, after trying them on in the change-room, bought myself a pair of woman's leggings. Aaah...satisfying!

[Asta Kask]

I walked into H&M, almost had a heart attack, left, went to a store where there were literally on 3 or 4 other customers in the whole place, wandered around, didn't find anything I liked, went to Pharmaprix, bought a cream soda to drown my sorrows. :<

But it will be easier next time. Remember that.

*hugs*

[Quincunx]

As it stood you just made it sound like your g/f demanded you go to buy yourself lingerie so she could have debauched fun with it later.

As much as I am sure there's something wrong with this statement, I just cannot see it. . . :smallcool:

OR

"My parents say I don't know what good clean fun is. And they're right--I don't know what good it is."

[Lix Lorn]

...nice line. XD

[Nameless]

I just got an image of my mum as a monkey in a suit! :smalleek:

I have an idea...

[Serpentine]

:eek:
Oh noes!

[Nameless]

:eek:
Oh noes!

I'll need a large net, 13 monkey-sized lab coats and a tuna roll.

[Coidzor]

As much as I am sure there's something wrong with this statement, I just cannot see it. . . :smallcool:

OR

"My parents say I don't know what good clean fun is. And they're right--I don't know what good it is."

I probably butchered my grammar, I guess, or needed more commas. And I think I might have come off as harsher than I really meant to. Depends on the flavor of wrongness.

Or possibly the flavor of monkey.

[Lix Lorn]

I'll need a large net, 13 monkey-sized lab coats and a tuna roll.

(Supplies)
:smallamused:

[Nameless]

(Supplies)
:smallamused:

Awesome, I'm starving. *noms tuna roll*
Ooo, free dolphin meat...

[Derjuin]

So...I've come to the realization that if I were to actually change my wardrobe now, my friends would likely have a hard time...dealing with it. Anything "too girly"* causes them to give me strange looks, or if, for example, they stop by to hang out for a bit, they'll turn around after seeing me...this is usually followed by me shouting "Hold on I'll change" and then they come back after I'm in jeans and a "suitable" t-shirt. By suitable, I mean one of sleeve length common to men's shirts, anything less requires a sleeved vest over it or something.

This really hurts my self-esteem sometimes...I realize I can't force them to accept me, or even expect them to suddenly see me the way I wish they would. If someone can help, that'd be great, but this was mostly to vent my frustrations... :smallsigh:

*Anything that isn't t-shirt and jeans is too girly.

edit: I didn't realize until after I'd hit post and walked away for 20 minutes that this post seems incredibly whiny. I'm sorry.

[Faulty]

It's not whiny, hun. I take it you'd like to where more girly clothes? When I told my room mates, friends and some of my family that I wanted to wear dresses it was overall taken pretty well, so I assume that you dressing to what is seen as your gender would be accepted by your friends. If it's not, see it as threshing the chaff. You deserve to be happy in your skin and your clothing, and if you have friends who can't deal with you being happen, maybe you shouldn't consider them friends at all.

[The Rose Dragon]

*Anything that isn't t-shirt and jeans is too girly.

Did you try wearing a tuxedo and a black tie?

[Fay Graydon]

So...I've come to the realization that if I were to actually change my wardrobe now, my friends would likely have a hard time...dealing with it. Anything "too girly"* causes them to give me strange looks, or if, for example, they stop by to hang out for a bit, they'll turn around after seeing me...this is usually followed by me shouting "Hold on I'll change" and then they come back after I'm in jeans and a "suitable" t-shirt. By suitable, I mean one of sleeve length common to men's shirts, anything less requires a sleeved vest over it or something.

This really hurts my self-esteem sometimes...I realize I can't force them to accept me, or even expect them to suddenly see me the way I wish they would. If someone can help, that'd be great, but this was mostly to vent my frustrations... :smallsigh:

*Anything that isn't t-shirt and jeans is too girly.

edit: I didn't realize until after I'd hit post and walked away for 20 minutes that this post seems incredibly whiny. I'm sorry.

I have the same problem hun.
Except that its only really one friend and his family (and another friends family).
Most of the time I've gotten into the mindset of "If you dont like it then your not a very good friend" but I found that (push come to shove), keeping a few gender neutral clothes in the wardrobe can be a good idea.
But for me I have-
*quickly counts*
- onle really one gender neutral outfit which a couple of my friends call the "L suit" (after L from death note) Which is basically a long sleeve white tee, and a baggy pair of jeans.

So having one outfit, or a few bits of Gender Neutral clothes is usefull till you build your self esteem hun ^^
psssst! keep a hitty bat just incase >.> :smallwink:

[Coidzor]

Wow, Derjuinista. That's... kind of ridiculous of them. So do they give you **** about it too or just do a silent shunning where they turn their backs to you from the get go?

[Derjuin]

To Faulty: I would love to. Unfortunately...I always feel uneasy in public, though, something fantastically interesting occurred today. Half of the campus' RPG club's guys wore dresses all day...and I stopped going to RPG club meetings last semester :smallmad: *pouts*

To -the- Rose Dragon: I haven't ever wanted to...though I am sure they would say I look odd in it, the most formal wear I've donned is slacks and a button-up for an interview, which I found out was a "casual interview".

To Fayte: Thank you for the help ^_^ I'm trying with more female-oriented shirts and such (and enjoying them muchly *glee*), and right now long skirts have caught my eyes, but...again, I don't know if I could feel confident enough to wear one.

To Coid: It's more of a shift in their attitude, not a huge one where they're throwing insults and such. It seems like they get a little uneasy, especially when I ask if it looks good or not. Usually I just get an offhand "Sure" or "Yeh" in response.

And now, I have realized, about a year ago one of my friends wanted to give me some of her old jeans and such, since I have so few pairs...I've talked to her a few times and we went through them, though the last time I talked to her about them she said she didn't want to talk about them...Not sure if I should ask again or not. :smalleek:

[Coidzor]

I'd probably drop it with the friend about the pants if she's asked you to drop it.

And are these friends that you're asking whether you look good or not heterosexual males? Because if so, that's your problem right there, especially if you've made any sort of a habit of doing so. If you're getting similar reactions from women when away from man-peers, then, I dunno. I had a thought there of what to say in that instance but I just lost it.

[Fay Graydon]

To Fayte: Thank you for the help ^_^ I'm trying with more female-oriented shirts and such (and enjoying them muchly *glee*), and right now long skirts have caught my eyes, but...again, I don't know if I could feel confident enough to wear one.

Ooooh I dont like long skirts :smallconfused:
However I do like my miniskirts >.>
Kinda awkward though when I plan to go out XD

[Derjuin]

If I could pull off a miniskirt, or at least a mid-length one, I think I would try...hehe =3

[Anuan]

Get a tartan miniskirt, tell your friends it's a sexy kilt :smallwink:

[Coidzor]

Get a tartan miniskirt, tell your friends it's a sexy kilt :smallwink:

Unleash the powah of the mini-kilt!

...I'll add in the relevant link to the noob soonish.

[Serpentine]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs034.snc1/4322_88532392341_522797341_1834853_729876_n.jpg

STOP MAKING HIM RELEVANT! D=

edit: Seriously, though, you could just take a page out of his book: He don' care what he wears! Actually, that's not true; he actively avoids anything normal... But, if you do weird often enough, it becomes normal...
And I actually do think that, if you wanna ease into it, layering your tops could help. Buy subtly female jeans, wear a slightly girlishish t-shirt over a coloured long-sleeved top...

[Coidzor]

Or just start buying girl's jeans from goodwill and such if you don't wanna pay top dollar for the transitory phase of trying 'em out for a duration.

Plenty of emo guys do that, after all. http://www.hanksclothing.com/womensconversion.html that's a quick search on a guideline to get you started in trying 'em out.

[Nameless]

*pop*
Or just do what I do, wear womens clothes that you can get away with wearing. :3
*poof*

[Derjuin]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! :smallbiggrin:

That is a sexy little kilt...maybe I should get one!

Regarding Goodwill, I think I will go there now, I wasn't even thinking about them before..

[Jacklu]

*grabs Nameless mid-poof* *cuddles and snuggles* Nameless doesn't get away that easily.

[Ilena]

awww, why does nameless always get the hugs? :(

[Derjuin]

I think Jackie has something for he-who-cannot-be-named =3

In other news,

*hugs Crixon* ^_^

[Ilena]

Aww *hugs* hehehe

[Nameless]

awww, why does nameless always get the hugs? :(

Becuase I'm an OCD magnet?

*cuddles*

[Asta Kask]

Becuase I'm an OCD magnet?

*cuddles*

I prefer to call it CDO.

http://trollcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/i_have_cdo_ocd_trollcat.jpg

[Lix Lorn]

Ohmigod Asta I love you so hard. XDDDD

[Ilena]

omg lix i love your pic!

[Nameless]

I prefer to call it CDO.

http://trollcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/i_have_cdo_ocd_trollcat.jpg

:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Lix Lorn]

omg lix i love your pic!

:smallredface:
Thanks. XD

[Fay Graydon]

Get a tartan miniskirt, tell your friends it's a sexy kilt :smallwink:

I have a Pink Tartan one :smalltongue:

[Jacklu]

I think Jackie has something for he-who-cannot-be-named =3

No! ... Yes. <.< >.> Maaaaaaaaybe. .-. =3 <333

[Rauthiss]

So, uh... looking through old email, and found this - Drag night at SUUSI a couple of years ago. Rau in a dress he sewed himself.

Yes, I realize my skills as a seamstress leave a lot to be desired. But for sewing by hand for a day, I'm proud of myself. I still have the dress too.

If anybody asks, you never saw this. <_<

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l171/jacarath/GetAttachmentaspx.jpg
Yay for not being feminine at all... >_<

[Fay Graydon]

It's not that bad hun ^^
With a bit of practice you could make a wonderful seamstress :smallbiggrin:

[Jacklu]

Jacklu got called pretty because of her hair today. And last week a customer called me "Ma'am." .-.

[blackfox]

Jacklu got called pretty because of her hair today. And last week a customer called me "Ma'am." .-.Yay! You know, it does look much better longer than it did when it was short, you should leave it that way.

[golentan]

Gratz, Jacklu. The new hair looks nice. Cuuuuuuurly...

And that is a sweet dress, Rauthis.

So: whining about hormones/relationship stuff below.

So I seem to be going through a "gay phase" again. As I've mentioned before, often I'm more interested in women, sometimes in men, never exclusively one or the other. Normally it just changes who I'll call attractive more freely. But right now I really want to go out and find some guy, almost any guy.

I'm not going to, of course. But it's really weird, given I spent half a century going without sex without any interest in having changing that, and then suddenly have a floodgate break and I'm being mugged by my hormones in a dark alley. And I can't really talk about it with my family, given that they think I'm dating my mostly-lesbian-friend who seems to view me as a walking reference book or wikipedia alternative/battery operated sextoy, something I don't feel comfortable correcting them on partly because I have no idea where I stand on the subject. Other than that she keeps trying to hook me up with my insane friend who is probably carrying a sleeper program to kill me on the grounds we would be really cute together.

I've decided that my nads just hate me. Friendship? Let's throw in attraction that you can never act on! Romance? Whoo: Let's throw a gender preference flip on him! Simple, uncomplicated emotions? Complicate them with inappropriately timed chemical surges! Deep seated revulsion for primates? MUAHAHAHA!!!!

[Jacklu]

Yay! You know, it does look much better longer than it did when it was short, you should leave it that way.

:smallredface: Thanks. I feel a ton better about myself with it long, too. ^_^

[Lykan]

Jacklu got called pretty because of her hair today. And last week a customer called me "Ma'am." .-.

Luckyyyy. I still get called "sir" while wearing a dress. -.-

[albis]

So, uh... looking through old email, and found this - Drag night at SUUSI a couple of years ago. Rau in a dress he sewed himself.

Yes, I realize my skills as a seamstress leave a lot to be desired. But for sewing by hand for a day, I'm proud of myself. I still have the dress too.

If anybody asks, you never saw this. <_<

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l171/jacarath/GetAttachmentaspx.jpg
Yay for not being feminine at all... >_<

Hey, if you've sewn it all by hand you did one awesome job! You look really nice!
I cosplay a lot and make my costumes myself, so, if you have (or are about to get) a sewing machine, I can give you pointers for basic shapes and stuff... :smallsmile:

[Jacklu]

*hugs Lykan*

Also, 49 pages. That was fast. .-. Anyone mind if I make the next one when the time comes?

[Coidzor]

Well, there's no thread-starter rotation around here, so, I don't see any particular reason unless SMEE wanted to make the new one, which I hadn't seen any tell of, so... yeah.

[Quincunx]

Rauthiss: How was that dress attached? Elastic at the top? Pinned together at the front and a little drape artistically pinned over the obvious closure? (having done the same with my last less-than-invisible invisible zipper rush job. . .) Buttons?

@V: Ah, the noble, and oft-forgotten, comma. . . :smalltongue:

[Thufir]

Other than that she keeps trying to hook me up with my insane friend who is probably carrying a sleeper program to kill me on the grounds we would be really cute together.

That's an unusual reason to kill someone.

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

OK, I have a question for you, the participants of this thread. Forgive me if it comes across as either rude or utterly basic, or if it has as I suspect already been discussed at some point, but I really do not have much experience in matters non-heterosexual.

How does one actually know or figure out that one is gay, or bisexual, or any other non-heterosexual orientation? I imagine that one would know in the same way that I know I am heterosexual, being physically attracted to women and all, but I hear stories of people who don't realise they're gay until they're in their forties, so surely social conditioning has a part to play as well?

[Fay Graydon]

OK, I have a question for you, the participants of this thread. Forgive me if it comes across as either rude or utterly basic, or if it has as I suspect already been discussed at some point, but I really do not have much experience in matters non-heterosexual.

How does one actually know or figure out that one is gay, or bisexual, or any other non-heterosexual orientation? I imagine that one would know in the same way that I know I am heterosexual, being physically attracted to women and all, but I hear stories of people who don't realise they're gay until they're in their forties, so surely social conditioning has a part to play as well?

Hmmmm, well I first realized i liked guys (and later worked out why) a while ago.
Basically it was a case of I kept looking at guys and not really girls, and whenever I looked at a girl I had a strong feeling of jealousy or envy rather then a swooning moment.
Eventually I realized that my mind had tried to look at girls and go:
"Cor blimey! look at 'em hooters!honk honk!" whilst my body was doing the whole face-palm and walk away.
Eventually I found myself looking at guys and thinking "Ooooh he's cute"
And when it gets to that stage I think it's fairly obvious I preferred men then women.
(And it turned out it was because the part of my brain that wasn't trying to conform to what was generally accepted as socially acceptable for your physical body and social status was actually female :smallbiggrin:)

But that's just me, dunno how others realized their sexuality or anything.

[Derjuin]

I'm still a bit fuzzy on my own, but I sort of realized something was different when I was looking at both men and women in a "They're cute" sort of way. I don't know if I lean one way or the other, or if I'm somewhere in between, like a balance; I'm not sure if I like men more than women or vice versa, or either.

This confusion started in high school, a place where anything out of the ordinary save being a geek is demonized. So, I just kept it all to myself until afterwards...I still usually keep it to myself though.

[Lix Lorn]

I was looking through Wikipedia one day, found the article on Gender Identity Disorder. Read it, realised 'Holy Crap that sounds like me.'

And the more I thought about it, the more sure I got. I have never been this sure before. It's just... I would never have thought of it unless I'd found that.

...and then one friend said she'd suspected it for ages and another guessed it as a half joke a couple of days after.

[golentan]

Well, in high school a guy wandered into the classroom while I was kind of out of it from lack of sleep and I said "**** he's sexy... Wait, what did I say?"

Of course, that was while I was still dealing with leftover molestation issues so it was another 5 years before I could cope with being attracted to guys (or contact with anyone) when fully conscious without having a panic attack, but I kind of suspected even though I couldn't admit it to myself.

[Yora]

I remember one day I had a free hour between classes in school (12th grade) and some of the actually rather nice guys where once again annoying the girls with their (purposely) immaturely silly acting. And that moment I realized that men and women really are different and it's not just pre-teen akwardness. It's just that these differences don't really apply to me. Though admitedly I soon forgot about it and really started to understand what it means for me years later.

Hm, and about that thing about liking men... Let's just I was alone one night and noticed that the image of me having sex with a man didn't make me freak out at all. You probably know what I'm meaning... :smallwink:
Which was actually quite strange. I always had these images of guys having a total freakout when first being confronted with their homosexuality, but I guess that's common if you grew up in the early 90's. But I didn't feel any less attracted to women and my family had never shown any hints that it might be a problem. So I didn't spend much time thinking about and just got back to thinking about something else. *wink* *wink*

[albis]

I don't remember when I realized what, but I do clearly remember last Thursday night's party, where an extremely pretty Jill Valentine cosplayer walked out of the dressing room as I put my Dark-Link costume... I -quite stupidly- stared right at her with a goofy smile and said "a beautiful evening, isn't it, miss Valentine?" XD

[Rauthiss]

Probably my first experience with it was at a friend's house in 8th grade - we had gotten ready to go swimming in his pool, and as we were swimming, one person.. *ahem* stole another's trunks. Without knowing why, I tried to get a better look. <_<

As for actually realizing it, that was much later. For reasons that I won't go into here for matters of not mattering, I don't find the human body very attractive at all, so the idea of who I'm romantically attracted to really didn't come up - I wasn't interested in anyone, no matter the gender. I'm starting to wonder if that was late onset puberty, but that's another discussion for another time.

When I realized it, it wasn't so much "OH EM GEE I AM TEH GAY" but more along the lines of "Hm. I might be gay, might not. But I still like females. So I'll call it bi." When I announced this on another forum I used to frequent, I was immediately questioned by the local camp gay...intensively. That scared me from finding other gay/bi guys for a while, I think. >_o

I'm perfectly happy with who I am, and although this might be cliche, whatever label is given to you isn't what really matters, but rather how you define yourself.

Hope that helped.

As for the dress, Quin, That requires a bit of explanation. I've always been a fan of strapless dresses, but naturally a male lacks the shelf to keep the dress on, if you know what I mean. I originally designed it with a string through the top that I could tie and keep it there, but in the end, I was having trouble making it tight enough. What I ended up doing was taking a strip of leftover fabric and tying it to the string at the back, then tying it to the front again to fit.

[Jacklu]

Hmmm... When did I first realize? Well, it really started in my early teens when I kept catching myself gazing at guys in the same way I did girls. After quite a bit of trying to sort out those feelings I settled with straight but still liking guys on an aesthetic level. It basically stayed that way until last year when I had my first serious crush on a guy.

[Serpentine]

I don't remember when I realized what, but I do clearly remember last Thursday night's party, where an extremely pretty Jill Valentine cosplayer walked out of the dressing room as I put my Dark-Link costume... I -quite stupidly- stared right at her with a goofy smile and said "a beautiful evening, isn't it, miss Valentine?" XDSmooooooth :wink:
I think I like looking at lady-bodies more than gentleman-bodies... Dunno if that means anything, but there you go.

[Graymayre]

First memory of these feelings was with the green power ranger at a young age.

First recognition of feelings at the age of 18.

That's about it. There were no trumpets announcing its arrival. There was no intense alteration to my personality. Save for the epiphany and the lack of being crippled by depression there wasn't a big difference to anything in my life. I guess I pay more attention to what I wear and how I look, but that's understandable. I'm in a new ballpark now.

I treat the whole thing like a scientific study. I'll compile data on what arouses me and study the correlation. If it's more men than women gay, if vice versa straight, if middle bi. Simple.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Greetings, ___itp-ers; I have a question for you folks, with a bit of background attached. Prepare for wall o' text!

I have a male friend (let's call him B) who's pining after a girl (C) in another dorm, to the point that he always sits with her in the dining hall when she's there, constantly mentions how he doesn't have a chance with her, etc., though he doesn't seem to want to make a move. Fairly normal for a nerdy, introverted compsci major, one would think :smallwink: except that he goes on about it to the point that methinks he doth protest too much. I thought at first that he was just insecure about not having a girlfriend, as I first noticed it after a few other guys in our group of friends were talking about girlfriend issues one night, but another friend of mine--who's bi and claims to have a fairly reliable "gaydar", let's call him G--says he thinks B is in fact gay.

I brushed that off at first, but when I started to contemplate it, there were a few cues that he might be right. First, another bi friend of mine who also claims good gaydar agreed on that point when it came up when he and G were talking, so that's two votes for. Second, whenever anything gay comes up in our group conversations (gay marriage in political debates, mentions of gay friends, gay jokes, etc.) he kind of flinches and gets quiet for a bit, and he gets mildly homophobic in his comments for a short while. Third, there are a few other details, like the fact that when the two girls in our group are staring at a guy with a "Wow, he's hot!" kind of look I'll sometimes catch him doing the same (trying to be subtle about it, of course).

So here's the issue: the whole unrequited love/macho posturing act is getting really irritating for everyone (though as far as I know no one else has cause to believe it isn't genuine), and the occasional homophobic comments are getting on some other friends' nerves (particularly G's), so G and I are trying to come up with a way to let him know that it's okay, everyone in the group will be fine with him no matter what, our college is fairly LGBT-friendly, he doesn't have to officially come out but he can drop the act, and so forth. Problem is, at the merest suggestion of "B" and "gay" appearing in the same sentence he clams up and ignores anything people say after that point.

I've gotten pretty good at ignoring him when he goes into posturing mode, so I don't know if it's worth talking to him about it if it'll sour his relations with the group (there are 14 of us, living right next to each other, so bad blood would be really bad), but if he continues in this vein I think it'll probably get worse.

So...yeah. What to do in this situation, Playgrounders?

[golentan]

Leave him alone and don't try to suggest an orientation for him? Seriously, he knows better than you do. Why, just look at me, my college buddies kept insisting I was Bi and should just admit it, and now... I'm...

Okay, bad example. The point remains that you can't judge someone's orientation for them. Gaydar don't work. Flirting does, but that isn't clear here. If he's gay, well, he can come to terms with that on his own, maybe with a willing friend's help. But pressuring someone to come out is as bad as pressuring them to stay in the closet.

Also, please dissuade homophobic comments.

[Jacklu]

I'll second Golentan's advice on this one. The fact of the matter is, if your friend is gay but in denial, trying to force him to admit it will only cause more stress than is necessary and won't make anyone happy. If he isn't gay, then you have the same problem. If you force the issue, either way, it is going to end up putting a lot of strain on your friendship.

And yes, try to dissuade homophobic comments.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

To clarify, we're not trying to pressure him either way, and I frankly don't care either way, we're just trying to get him to tone down the posturing. Since a simple "Hey dude, we get it, she doesn't like you, sorry" hasn't done it, I'm wondering if there's a way to gently break it to him that, if he's gay, trying to cover it with macho-ness and homophobia isn't cool without, y'know, straight-out saying "Hey, if you're gay, trying to cover it with macho-ness and homophobia isn't cool." Asking him to just cut out those comments in general hasn't worked, just made them more infrequent.

[albis]

Smooooooth :wink:
I think I like looking at lady-bodies more than gentleman-bodies... Dunno if that means anything, but there you go.

Well, she did smile at me and said "nice ears you got there" so I guess it wasn't that bad :smallbiggrin:

about the bodies thing, I have the same interest you have, and I think it's because the female body has a smoother and more fluid line, that results more pleasant to the eye...

[Serpentine]

To clarify, we're not trying to pressure him either way, and I frankly don't care either way, we're just trying to get him to tone down the posturing. Since a simple "Hey dude, we get it, she doesn't like you, sorry" hasn't done it, I'm wondering if there's a way to gently break it to him that, if he's gay, trying to cover it with macho-ness and homophobia isn't cool without, y'know, straight-out saying "Hey, if you're gay, trying to cover it with macho-ness and homophobia isn't cool." Asking him to just cut out those comments in general hasn't worked, just made them more infrequent.To paraphrase: What is one to do when a friend's suspected closetedness is damaging his relationships and social life?

Albis: Yeah, maybe... I do like a good waistline (and look forward to having my own :smallwink:). But, of course, I do like a good man-back...

[Coidzor]

Hmm. Depends on how long he's been making an ass of himself. And what sort of triggers it has.

Have you guys given him the "Stop acting the part of a pathetic worm/lovesick puppy" talk about the professing to obsessing thing?

I believe the usual advice is a sort of intervention if having someone whom he trusts have a conversation with him about such things.

[Lioness]

Lady bodies are much nicer than man bodies. Then again, some man bodies are better than woman bodies. I go on a case-by-case basis. Even though I generally prefer men, and am really only interested in romantic/sexual relationships with men, I think women are prettier.

[Lyesmith]

Nah, man. It's all about the man-bodies! I mean, I'm biased, strictly speaking. But y'know, a bit of musculature, some light facial hair, good face...:smallamused:

I suppose women have their merits.Two of them, attatched to the front /typicalmale

[Nameless]

Smooooooth :wink:
I think I like looking at lady-bodies more than gentleman-bodies... Dunno if that means anything, but there you go.

Serp's Latent bisexuality is being taken over by her latent homosexuality. :o

:smalltongue:

[Anuan]

I don't remember when I realized what, but I do clearly remember last Thursday night's party, where an extremely pretty Jill Valentine cosplayer walked out of the dressing room as I put my Dark-Link costume... I -quite stupidly- stared right at her with a goofy smile and said "a beautiful evening, isn't it, miss Valentine?" XD

Ahah, so you're a girl :smalltongue: Y'know, as far as physical stuff goes...

[Nameless]

Ahah, so you're a girl :smalltongue: Y'know, as far as physical stuff goes...

BAHAHA! I knew it! And I told you all! But noone listened! :smallbiggrin:

[Lioness]

Ahah, so you're a girl :smalltongue: Y'know, as far as physical stuff goes...

Not necessarily. I mean, Albis never said what was realised. It could have been the realisation that he/she was straight. Who knows?

*trying to rationalise opinion*

[Anuan]

...Curse you, Lioness, you have thrown my deductions into disarray again!

Oh well. Albis is cute in either case >.> Speaking as a straight (but not narrow :smalltongue:) guy.

[Serpentine]

Also, could be a unisex dressing room? Possibly?

[albis]

Lioness has an incredible logic. XD

Though it was only natural Anuan came to the conclusion he did, since my wording wasn't very accurate in pointing out that my past realization and last Thursday were completely unrelated. u_u
Though it was bisexuality being realized, and not straight...ness.
And -sadly- I must say that I've been mostly attracted to miss Valentine alone also because the party was extremely lacking in male material. XD


---and yeah, there was only one big dressing room. Cosplayers aren't very shy XD

[Coidzor]

---and yeah, there was only one big dressing room. Cosplayers aren't very shy XD

Ah. I was wondering what you were doing getting dressed outside of it.

[albis]

I was already dressed, I was putting on contact lens in front of the outside mirror cuz it was crowded inside =)

[Jacklu]

NEW THREAD (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8218471#post8218471)