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Draconi Redfir
2010-02-28, 07:45 PM
So I’m trying to make my own campaign for me and my friends to play, but it requires undead player characters. I’ve already posted this on another message board, but for one reason or another, the people on that one have become unresponsive, so id like another opinion.

note: these are templates for races, not classes.

note2: criticism is encouraged, as it helps me make more balanced templates.


Skeleton:

Skeleton:

Abilities: Str: –2, Dex: +2, Con: none

Medium size

Land speed of 30 Ft

Known languages: Common. Bonus languages: Elven, Infernal, Dwarven, Goblin

Skill bonuses: +3 to climb, +2 to intimidate.

Special skills: Damage reduction: 3/bludgeoning (-3 to all attacks not made with bludgeoning weapons) Darkvision to 60 Ft, +1 bonus feat

Undead use Charisma score in place of constitution



Ghost:

Ghost:

Abilities: Str: none, Con: none, int +2, Wis +4

Medium size

Flight speed of 30ft (no land speed)

Known languages: Common. Bonus languages: Elvin, Dwarven, Celestial

Skill bonuses: +4 perception and stelth.

Special skills: AC deflection bonus =Cha modifier, Darkvision 60 Ft, immunity to weather, DR 5/magic & holy water, Can not give, or be affected by trip or grapple attacks. Weightless. Dexterity modifier applies to a ghosts melee, and ranged attacks. may lift or wear a total of 10xCha (mod) pounds of items, weapons, and armor without the ghost touch bonus. Ghostly copy.

Ghostly copy:
Any item, weapon, or armor placed onto the remains of the ghosts once-living body will be useable by the ghost as a ghostlike version of itself. Weapons wielded by the ghost in this way receive a -2 to hit due to being ghostly. Rings and armours worn this way act as if having the “ghost touch” bonus. Tools such as ropes, bottles, and ladders become useless to any non-ghost that dose not possess at least one item with the ghost touch bonus.




vampire:

Vampire:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-lists-and-details/-v/vampire

Abilities: Str +2, Wis -2 Cha +2, Con: none

Medium size

Land speed of 30

Known languages: Common. Bonus languages: Abyssal, Goblin, Draconic, Undercommon

Skill bonuses: +2 on bluff, and stealth

Special skills: Scent, darkvision to 60 Ft, +3 natural armour, uses Charisma score in place of constitution

Other: must feed on the blood of the vampire’s original race at least once per day. Not doing so will result in –1 Str and –2 maximum HP per day until blood is drank. After 10 days without blood, the vampire will die.
Vampires must say 5ft (one square) away from mirrors or holy symbols. Vampires may not make touch, melee or grapple attacks on characters holding a holy symbol or mirror.

Blood Drain (Su): A vampire can suck blood from a grappled opponent; if the vampire establishes or maintains a pin, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution damage. The vampire heals 5 hit points or gains 5 temporary hit points for 1 hour (up to a maximum number of temporary hit points equal to its full normal hit points) each round it drains blood.



Lich:

Lich

Abilities: Str –2, int +2, Wis +2, Con: none

Medium size:

Land speed of 30

Known languages: common, Abyssal, infernal, Ignan

Skill bonuses: +2 Knowledge (arcana), and spellcraft.

Special skills: Darkvision 60 Ft, Dr 3/bludgeoning and magic, Rejuvenation: when lich is destroyed, it will regenerate itself via its Phylactery for 1d10 days.

Other: a Lich must select an object of its choice to be its phylactery. This object must be an artificial item, and may not be an object such as a rock or plant. Should this object be destroyed, the lich has until its next death to create a new one.

phylactery
Phylactery:
Upon creation, a Lich gets one free phylactery of his choice, the phylactery will continue to revive the Lich upon death until such a time that the Lich has reached level 5, upon which, the phylactery may only revive the lich 1d4+Dex more times before it crumbles to dust. The Lich must then create a new phylactery, which will last until the next level divisible by 5.(5, 10, 15, ETC)

Creation of a 2nd level phylactery (working until level 10) requires:

1 artificial item of small or tiny size
2 hours time
5000 GP
200 EXP
Caster level of 1

Gold, experience, and caster level costs are multiplied by five for every level phylactery made. So the GP cost of a level 3 phylactery is 25000, 4th level is 125000, ETC.



Ghoul:

Ghoul:

Abilities: Str+4, Dex+2, Con: none, int-2, wis–2,

Medium size

Land speed of 30

Known languages: common. Bonus languages: none

Skill bonuses: +2 on acrobatics and climb,

Special skills: darkvision 60 Ft. bite.

Bite: Ghoul disease: once per round a ghoul may opt to use a bite attack as a free action. The targeted organic opponent must make a fortitude save. If the total amount is less then 15, the opponent will suffer 1d4 damage per turn until it reaches zero hit points, or a cure disease is cast. Target must be within melee range to bite.


Mummy:

Mummy


Abilities: Dex:+4, Con: none, int-2, wis-2,

Medium size

Land speed of 30

Known languages: common. Bonus languages: Giant, Gnoll, undercommon

Skill bonuses: +2 on survival and escape artist.

Special skills: darkvision 60 Ft. dehydration.

Dehydration: if a mummy rolls a natural 20 when attempting to hit an organic opponent, it may opt to exchange its normal attack for a Dehydration attack. Roll 1d8+Dex modifier for damage, if the attack winds up dealing the killing blow, said enemy will crumble to dust. Should the mummy opt to use Dehydration, it forfeits any damage multipliers granted by a standard critical attack. (Ex: a critical hit done with a Club multiplies damage rolled by 2. Dehydration has no such multiplier, despite being done on a natural 20.


Thoughts? Suggestions for improvements?

DracoDei
2010-02-28, 08:40 PM
All I have time to say at the moment (and WITHOUT looking at what you have) is that you might try THIS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142724) thread for comparison. As of this posting it includes at least Skeletons and Mummies.

Draconi Redfir
2010-02-28, 09:25 PM
thats for 3.5 though, this is for pathfinder. the two are mostly the same, but differ on some key points.

Glimbur
2010-02-28, 09:53 PM
Nitpick: they should have Con scores of -, not 0.

Skeleton looks strong. DR and immunity to the two most common elements and a feat means it's at least competitive with human and probably better.

Ghost should specifically be made [Incorporeal], they have a lot of nice bonuses and immunities. They seem too strong for LA +0; maybe give some racial hit dice instead? I foresee ghost clerics and druids and wizards and such being difficult to challenge.

Vampire is limited enough that I wouldn't want to play one. The DR is nice but the rest of the positives are kind of meh compared to all the drawbacks.

Lich is crazy powerful at low levels. Eventually, death becomes cheaper and losing your stuff is what really hurts, but until then your DR/Magic and Bludgeoning and your free respawns mean you can take more risks. The immunities are just icing on the cake.

Ghoul isn't very good. Bonus Str is nice, but all the other penalties hurt and suggest a heavily armored melee type. The bite is cute but not very helpful; especially since the DC is set so by mid levels it works one hit in twenty. You're better off just hitting your foes.

Mummy... there's not much here. The Dex is nice, the Dehydration is weak at most. They could make decent rogues or other light armor classes. The slight mental penalties discourage casters. Maybe a sorcerer?

tl;dr Most seem too good, a few seem bad.

My advice would be to check out Necropolitan(a template) from Libris Mortis and encourage re-fluffing... maybe some homebrew feats or Savage Species progressions.

Draconi Redfir
2010-03-01, 02:30 PM
Nitpick: they should have Con scores of -, not 0.
Undead always have a 0 Con. They use the Cha modifier instead of it.


Skeleton looks strong. DR and immunity to the two most common elements and a feet means it's at least competitive with human and probably better.
ya, thinking of reducing the DR, and possibly removing /reducing an immunity or two.


Ghost should specifically be made [Incorporeal], they have a lot of nice bonuses and immunities. They seem too strong for LA +0; maybe give some racial hit dice instead? I foresee ghost clerics and druids and wizards and such being difficult to challenge.
Didn’t quite understand half of what you did there, but what if I just gave them a mid-to-high DR when against non-magic or holy water attacks? Would that balance things out a bit?


Vampire is limited enough that I wouldn't want to play one. The DR is nice but the rest of the positives are kind of meh compared to all the drawbacks.
Ironic because the vampire was actually the most overpowered of them all when I first made it. What would you suggest I do to fix it?


Lich is crazy powerful at low levels. Eventually, death becomes cheaper and losing your stuff is what really hurts, but until then your DR/Magic and Bludgeoning and your free respawns mean you can take more risks. The immunities are just icing on the cake.
I could probably reduce/remove the DR, to magic at least, possibly remove an immunity or two like with the skeleton. As for the respawns, what if i set it up, so that after a lich reaches X level, they can only die #+Dex mod before the phylactery automatically breaks, and you need to make a new one? I could probably set up money and material cost that grows with level if it seems fair.


Ghoul isn't very good. Bonus Str is nice, but all the other penalties hurt and suggest a heavily armored melee type. The bite is cute but not very helpful; especially since the DC is set so by mid levels it works one hit in twenty. You're better off just hitting your foes.
Ok. What if I added in a small Dex bonus (+1 or 2 or so) and reduced the Wis/int penalties to -1 or 2 each? Would that be an improvement? Not really sure what to do with the bight, maybe add it in as a free action once per turn?


Mummy... there's not much here. The Dex is nice, the Dehydration is weak at most. They could make decent rogues or other light armor classes. The slight mental penalties discourage casters. Maybe a sorcerer?

Yeah I honestly didn’t quite know what to do with the dehydration thing. ATM it just looks like some fancy way of making something dead without leavening a corpse. didn’t really know what else I could do with it.


My advice would be to check out Necropolitan(a template) from Libris Mortis and encourage re-fluffing... maybe some homebrew feats or Savage Species progressions.

Sorry, only have the pathfinder players handbook and the internet. not much else.

Edge
2010-03-01, 02:33 PM
Undead always have a 0 Con. They use the Cha modifier instead of it.

No, they have no Con score, not a Con score of 0. The former means you are an unliving creature, the latter means you are the corpse of a formerly living creature.

DracoDei
2010-03-01, 02:37 PM
As for the respawns, what if i set it up, so that after a lich reaches X level, they can only die #+Dex mod before the phylactery automatically breaks, and you need to make a new one?
Why would you base it on DEXTERITY?

Also, instead of "forged" maybe you should say "artificial" for the phylactery?

Draconi Redfir
2010-03-01, 03:11 PM
No, they have no Con score, not a Con score of 0. The former means you are an unliving creature, the latter means you are the corpse of a formerly living creature.
ahh ok, that makes sence. though undead technechly ARE corpses.


Why would you base it on DEXTERITY?

Also, instead of "forged" maybe you should say "artificial" for the phylactery?
becuse Con isent availible. and maby regeneraiting from the phylactery causes a physical strain that reaches its limits at your Dex modifier?

Draconi Redfir
2010-03-03, 02:39 AM
One last shameless bump for glory!

jagadaishio
2010-03-03, 11:20 AM
You should never, ever, ever, ever have ability score adjustments of +/- an odd number. It's just too uneven. The reason that ability score adjustments come in evens is that guarantees a change in the ability score modifier, instead of just the ability score. The adjustments will always matter that way.

That is all.

Draconi Redfir
2010-03-03, 12:08 PM
You should never, ever, ever, ever have ability score adjustments of +/- an odd number. It's just too uneven. The reason that ability score adjustments come in evens is that guarantees a change in the ability score modifier, instead of just the ability score. The adjustments will always matter that way.

That is all.

k, fixed it. kinda worried some of the ability +/-'s might be too high now though, what do you think?

DracoDei
2010-03-03, 12:32 PM
You should never, ever, ever, ever have ability score adjustments of +/- an odd number. It's just too uneven. The reason that ability score adjustments come in evens is that guarantees a change in the ability score modifier, instead of just the ability score. The adjustments will always matter that way.

That is all.
At a high enough skill level... rules like this are made for breaking. What I am saying here is a note for the future, not for this present case.

Draconi Redfir
2010-03-04, 05:06 PM
any other suggestions /critiqes? i could really use some help here pepole.

Draconi Redfir
2010-04-13, 01:15 AM
updated the templates a bit. check em out in the first post.


What I did:
Neafed the vampire abilities, from Str+6, dex+4, int+2, Wis+2 and Cha +4 to current.
Increase the ghoul Str bonus from +3 to +4
Reduced the Vampire skill bonuses from +5 to +2. Removed sense motive.
Removed the Lich’s skill bonuses (+4 on perception, sense motive and stealth.) replaced with current.
Reduced total number of skills with skill bonuses to two per race.
Gave Skeletons an additional bonus feat like humans.
Vampires may now only drink the blood of the same race it came from.
Added a mummy race
Removed vampire DR
Added a DR 5/magic to ghost, as opposed to immunity to nonmagic attacks.
Removed weaknesses to running water, and innibility to enter private homes from Vampire.
Removed Lich’s Cha bonus
Removed Skeleton and Lich immunities
Switched the word “foraged” with “artificial” in the Lich’s phylactery
Added instructions on how to create a Lich’s phylactery
The Ghoul’s bite is now a free action, and may be used in addition to regular attacks.
Buffed the Mummy’s dehydration attack, making it actually useful.
Removed Int bonus from vampire
Altered raicial bonuses to eliminate odd-numbers.
Added a Dex bonus to the Ghoul.
reduced damage reduction from 5 to 3 on the skeleton and the lich

Darkholme
2010-04-13, 01:39 AM
Well, about a year ago I redid the vampire. It's meant to be PF compatible, playable with no Level Adjust, and reasonable.

It's mostly good as I have it up on there, but it needs some updating. The temporary HP need to be dropped, and DR scales too fast.

Check out the Revised template, and corresponding Template Class. It may be of use to you.

Also, the 3.5e Monsters as classes thing I started a PF thread today, with the Satyr as my sample.

Here's the Vampire I'm talking about. (http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-house-rules/268688-playable-vampire-level-0-up.html)

Draconi Redfir
2010-06-20, 09:53 PM
added a way for Ghosts to hold items without the ghost touch bonus, as well as giveing them the ability to create ghostly versions of weapons, items, and armors given to the Ghosts once-liveing corpse.