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vartan
2010-03-01, 11:24 AM
So, as the culmination of this story arc my players are going to be ushered about the battlefield by an exarch of Tempus to strike decisive blows against the orc army (I don't want to attempt mass battle rules). They will likely be brought to the camps of individual tribes and tasked with killing leaders, shaman, etc. I need some suggestions for challenging orcs for a 5th level party that turns out massive damage (Avenger, Brb/Rngr, and Wiz). Anything from suggestions to complete work ups would be appreciated.

bosssmiley
2010-03-01, 12:08 PM
Massed archery and polearms: the traditional response of humanoids hordes to higher-level PCs. Throw in guard creatures (some use wolves, others boars, I use regressed Orcish Atavisms myself) and some of the old ed rules on Orcs having tougher leader types, shamans, class-levelled half-orcs, and Ogre or Troll tribal mascots for added fun.

Remember, humanoids aren't idiots. They're as cunning and paranoid as RL humans. They might not be able to cast magic themselves, but counters for the obvious low-level tricks should be in place. Their camps should be guarded by sentries (yay for Darkvision!) + scent-capable animals, and surrounded by cleared areas (field of fire/clear vision), gated stockades, alarmed tripwires, and faeces-smeared spikes in trenches. :smallwink:

Greenish
2010-03-01, 12:18 PM
Orc Warlord PrC. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030301a) Might be a bit too much muscle for your party if played smart and with followers.

What are orcs like in your settings? Howling barbarians, almost mindless primitive beasts or well-disciplined warlike race? The type will determine the tactics they use, wether zerg-like charges, nighttime attacks on isolated prey or massed pike/bow formations.

[Edit]:
…faeces-smeared spikes in trenches. :smallwink:Hehe, nothing to demoralize your characters like having to wade through orc-feces covered trenches. I approve. :smallcool:

The Glyphstone
2010-03-01, 12:36 PM
Isn't Avenger a 4E class? Or is that referring the totally-not-an-April-Fool's-Joke-Good-Assassin class?

Dr.Epic
2010-03-01, 12:55 PM
Darn! I thought this thread was for help fighting an orc army not tips on how to make it better. A friend of mine once killed like half an orc army with one spell: cast light (it was that or a similar spell) and with their disadvantage to bright sun light a bunch of them in the front will be dazed or stuned (I forget which) and all the orcs charging behind will run into/trample the frontline guys.

Kol Korran
2010-03-01, 01:17 PM
well, in one of my campaigns i used a hobgoblin army who got helped by an a small orcish tribe witha druidic heriatage. they masterd and used various magical beasts. you can have an orc druid or spirit shaman (easier to handle) with some beasties with him. the druid himself doesn't have to be that high level, but make him hard to hit, and with plenty of HP. examples for beasties:
- Stirges (you may laugh, but mingled with other creatures they become nasty)
- Kreshnar (as low level critters)
- Worgs (for the creepy feel of a talking and mocking wolf. and the trip attack)
- perhaps an ape as an animal companion
- or maybe a baby basilisk, well trained?
- a rust monster could work well with a druid (could be it's mount)
- a large hipogriff
- if you really want to be nasty, add a hydra, which can be ufed by te druid
(perhap with energy resistence or acid)

other possibilites:
the classical Orc shaman/cleric/favoured soul of Gruumush. add a few buffs to either undead, or fanatic zealot warriors (orc barbs with 1-3 barbarian levels). the cleric uses mostly buffing or debuffing spells. think bestow curse, waves of despair and the like.

Orc Duskblade, perhasp as the general- the player won't see him coming! heavy hitter, but may need a few minions to enable him to cast spells.

i hope this helped,
Kol.

AslanCross
2010-03-01, 04:43 PM
It mostly depends on how orcs in your campaign are fluffed, but I don't think they'd go around being such a scourge if they didn't have any cunning at all.

Use terrain to your advantage. Remember cover, concealment, and difficult terrain.

Have the orcs swarm the PCs. The biggest problem with orcs is that they're predictably melee threats, but you can throw in some members of that intelligent orc race in Cityscape who might be controlling the lesser orcs. Make them spellcasters.

I also think the Rust Monster is a good idea.
"The orcs are only wielding spears and rocks. HAH! Primitive beasts."
"...wait. Why are they only wielding spears and rocks?...oh CRAP."

Bringing in mounts and trained beasts is going to make things interesting. Maybe a dire boar or two (or even a dire wereboar orc chieftain).

Saintheart
2010-03-01, 09:43 PM
Orc samurai. Give a platoon of 'em class levels in Warblade, focus on Diamond Mind and Iron Heart, and let 'em go silly. :smallsmile:

Greenish
2010-03-01, 09:50 PM
Have the orcs swarm the PCs. The biggest problem with orcs is that they're predictably melee threats, but you can throw in some members of that intelligent orc race in Cityscape who might be controlling the lesser orcs. Make them spellcasters.Other nice ones are Races of Faerun, gray orcs: bonus to wisdom and Races of Destiny, sharrakim: bonus to int.

AslanCross
2010-03-01, 10:54 PM
Other nice ones are Races of Faerun, gray orcs: bonus to wisdom and Races of Destiny, sharrakim: bonus to int.

The Sharrakin are the guys I'm referring to. I keep confusing cityscape and Races of Destiny for some reason.

tyckspoon
2010-03-01, 11:02 PM
A friend of mine once killed like half an orc army with one spell: cast light (it was that or a similar spell) and with their disadvantage to bright sun light a bunch of them in the front will be dazed or stuned (I forget which) and all the orcs charging behind will run into/trample the frontline guys.

Missing a few letters in that status condition.. Orcs are only Dazzled by sunlight, which is a -1 to hit. Worth inflicting if you're playing averages in army vs. army, but it's probably not going to make the difference in a normal fight.

WeeFreeMen
2010-03-02, 01:49 AM
Oh Wow, that Feat. Might makes Right: Add Str bonus to Leadership score could get ridiculous.

On another note.
I did something VERY similar.
As for tribal bosses I just did typical defenses (think WWII type, Trenches and the like), add some Warthogs for flavor and guard duty. Throw in some followers, and as mentioned above a Troll/Giant mascot always makes for fun. Especially if its stupid enough to be influenced, its a good RP situation and chance for the players to talk to the lumbering idiot and use him rather than outright slay him.

As for mini-BBEG's
The Warlord of Warlords: This guy was the campaigns main BBEG, pretty much a Optimized Frenzied Beserker, with 3 bodyguards, a healer (the actual mini class), and a low level Wizard for some CC
Ranged Combat Specialist: Scout Leader, for the scouting Orcs.
Siege Specialist: and by this I mean a Hill Giant and his men chucking Rocks
Mounted Combatants: Goblins riding Bugbears and Warthogs (Was actually VERY effective encounter, as they had ride by attacking and forced the PCs to actually retreat the first time to restratagize, afterall Mobility is a very important role in War)
2 Melee Specialist: Barbarian and Fighter (They were brothers, signifying Defense and Offense on the lines of War)


While we are on the topic on minions.
I highly recommend "Marshals" from the mini handbook as demi captains/commanders.
It gives your PCs a sense of "I need to kill their leader" etc, when they see some guy yelling and buffing everyone around him.
Also make the leaders and the captains/commanders Moral Targets.
Give the PCs a time limit, and however many Targets they kill will impose penaltys on the Orcs for the following attack.

Ex. 6 Leaders, Kill 3/6. The orcs get +3 from the 3 leaders left, but -3 since some were eliminated.

I really really enjoyed running this for the PCs, and it was one of the most memorable encounters we had.

JaronK
2010-03-02, 04:52 AM
This might be too dangerous, but here's a nasty Orc army for you that's a significant threat, even with all level 1 troopers.

First off, your basic troops are Orc Crusaders with EWP: Awl Pike, and are armed with Awl Pikes and Spiked Brigadine Mail (nice and cheap). They're in units of 40, with 36 of them being actual Crusaders. Of those, 2 in the back have Bolstering Voice, two in the back have Leading the Charge, 16 have Iron Guard's Glare, and 16 have Martial Spirit. Those last 32 are checkerboarded together such that they're completely intermixed, so the Iron Guard's Glares overlap. Also in the unit are two Marshals with different Auras and two Binders who are binding Malphas and using the bird to hear instructions from the command group, which is positioned well back from the main action.

Additionally, there are groups of Orc Fighter 1s as archers, with Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot. Each of these has one Binder and one Marshal, as with the Crusader groups. Some of these take Farshot instead of Rapidshot and have the teamwork effect from DMGII or Heroes of Battle that lets them coordinate fire. They've got standard Longbows and Brigadine Armor (remember, gear shouldn't be too expensive... it's unrealistic for an army to be super well equipped, and the party might end up looting a lot of this stuff).

The command group has a bunch of Binders, two for each unit in the field... these have Malphas birds that stay with the units, allowing them to hear and see what the unit hears and sees (and letting the unit communicate). There's also a series of bards. One bard has Masterwork Wardrums, another has normal Wardrums (see complete adventurer). Then there's a bunch of Dragonborn Orc Bards with Masterwork Wardrums, each with a different Dragonfire Inspiration (one each for fire, electricity, acid, cold, and sonic). The combined effect of those bards gives all orcs in the field +10d6 elemental damage in addition to +2 to hit and damage and +1 to saving throws against fear and charm... plus there's the bolstering voice bonuses. Plus the boss of the army is there... a Marshal 1/Warlock 1/Binder 1/Bard X with the charisma boosting aura and Skill Focus Diplomacy who has used diplomacy to get his entire army up to Fanatic status (and maybe he's playing one of the drums too, giving a larger bonus. Perhaps he even has feats to augment his bardic music). He's also used the Heroes of Battle rules to give himself strategic advantages. Perhaps he has a few nice magic items that boost charisma and diplomacy.

The result of this? The Orc army is extremely dangerous. Even the level 1 guys are a major threat... they've got great reach which gives them many attacks, they can self heal, and even though they have a tough time hitting higher level enemies when they land a shot it could easily be lethal. Charging them head on would be nearly suicidal. Plus the archers can rain down death if they get a clear shot. As such, if the party wants to survive they have to sneak over and hit the command group hard and fast. The leader can be high level without being a huge melee threat... pump his diplomacy up and optimize him for that and it'll make sense why he's in charge despite the fact that as a one on one combatant he's not that amazing. If the party kills him and the command Bards, the army will be far less dangerous, and the army won't retreat until the commander is dead due to Fanatic status. When the guy goes down, the fact that all the units can see the command area (due to Binders) will become a disadvantage, as they'll all see their leader cut down... this should force morale checks and a good bit of the army should retreat (causing serious disarray). Remember they still have Crusaders with Bolstering Voice up, so not all the army will run at once... still, the death of the command group would be a clear road to victory.

This allows the party to really feel like they can make a meaningful difference in the battle in a realistic way without having to actually fight the entire army.

JaronK