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View Full Version : 4e Fey & Vestige Warlock Experiences



H3llM4rine
2010-03-01, 08:19 PM
This will be my first time playing D&D seriously, and I'd like to make a Tiefling Warlock. The two most interesting to me are the Fey (from PHB) and Vestige (from Arcane Power) Pacts. I'd like to hear some people's experiences with these builds. :)

From my understanding, with Fey I'll be teleporting around and then blasting, and just using that to keep from the target as I blast it. Also, with roleplaying, my understanding is that this pact is more interested in natural preservation and the like. I don't so much care for that stance. XP
Vestige sounds more fun, because of the way you can change your pact boon and the like to your advantage, but I'm not sure this will be as useful as I think it will be. As far as roleplaying goes, this sounds more my style, as the character is to be more scholarly, and perhaps a little "rough," or "blunt."

Also, if it helps, I'm playing with a wizzard, fighter, cleric, and two rangers.

What's your thoughts?

Swordgleam
2010-03-01, 08:29 PM
There was a feylock in my game for a while, and he had a lot of fun. He didn't do a ton of damage (it was his first time playing an RPG, so that might be why), but he did teleport all around the battlefield, and the teleportation was handy outside of fights. He seemed to have quite a lot of fun with it.

No first-hand experience with vestige pact.

RedBeardJim
2010-03-01, 08:50 PM
This will be my first time playing D&D seriously, and I'd like to make a Tiefling Warlock. The two most interesting to me are the Fey (from PHB) and Vestige (from Arcane Power) Pacts. I'd like to hear some people's experiences with these builds. :)

From my understanding, with Fey I'll be teleporting around and then blasting, and just using that to keep from the target as I blast it.

Pretty much. Remember that the Shadow Walk and Warlock's Curse features are both designed to encourage you to be mobile, moving around the battlefield, dropping curses on everything that comes in reach, and keeping up concealment to boost your defenses. You will also usually have some nasty status effects on your encounter and daily powers. I've only played fey pact (and only up till level 2 so far) but I've been enjoying it so far. Eyebite is a nice defensive power, and you can use it to keep a single enemy befuddled (especially if you manage to get training in Stealth) or to set up nice action-point combos for when you really want that big daily to land.


Also, with roleplaying, my understanding is that this pact is more interested in natural preservation and the like. I don't so much care for that stance. XP
Meh, that's just a suggestion. My own feylock has a patron that's some sort of archfey who wants to increase its influence into the mortal world for its own reasons, and not necessarily caring all that much about its vessel's well-being in the process.

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-03-01, 08:58 PM
I don't have AP, so no experience with Vestige, but one of my players is playing a feylock right now, and he's having a great time. The uber-mobility is great, especially with 4e battles, which can end up having people sit in one place and hack at the monsters. (I try to discourage this as much as possible, but it helps to have someone who has teleportation powers...) He's playing an Eladrin Feylock, but I thought a Tiefling Feylock would be even cooler, for reasons I don't actually remember at the moment. I think it was mainly due to the fact that the Eladrin let you teleport, which you can do already, but the Tieflings have all sorts of fire-y powers and Temp HP.

So yeah, I'd go with Feylock.

EDIT: Also, as Jim said, the RP suggestions are just that: suggestions. RP however you want. My player is playing his as a crazy sadist who jumps around and attacks people, and has a Trickster-Fey patron, who's using him as a sort of way to control what's going on on in the Material Realm without actually having to get personally involved. And as Swordgleam said, the teleportation is exceedingly helpful outside of combat. You essentially can't be confined, because as long as you can see a patch of land, you can teleport to it. Once you get to a certain level, you can take Warlock's Leap, and you don't even have to be able to see it to teleport to it. Not to mention the ability to teleport upwards into trees and such.

DragonBaneDM
2010-03-01, 09:01 PM
From my understanding, Feylock's are low on damage in comparison with other strikers, however they make up for it by being more or less even split controller/striker.

And Vestige Pact is just complicated. If you're a whiz for remembering details, go for it, as I bet there are some neato tricks VestLocks can pull off.

Reynard
2010-03-01, 09:05 PM
Yeah, teleporting Eladrin Feypact warlocks are great fun, and I've broken my DMs plans at least twice with mine.

On I posted in the Memorable Line thread, but I'll expand on it.


Just before this had happened, we'd hit level 9.

We were in a 'take your weapons away without a chance to fight back' plot twist, the DM had the BBEGs goons, led by his third in command, capture the party.

I wasn't having any of that.

First, Otherwind Stride got me to the nearest window, and immobilized the two goons either side of me, I shifted out side the window then used Fey Switch and swapped the places of me and the party barbarian, then I used an action point to use Fey Step to get back next to the barbarian. There were still a lot of dudes in the room, more than an un-armed barbarian and a warlock could take out, as they weren't just minions, and were infact slightly higher levels then the party.

Me and the Barb do a runner out into the street, looking to get far enough away so that we can hide, or at the very least get weapons, and end up fighting a running battle with the BBEGs third in command, just barely keeping ahead. Due to my teleporting powers, the Barbs player had an idea: 'hold them off', then I get to the dungeon and break everyone loose.

This only sort of went to plan. I was able to get away from the grunts, but, while trying to get out of the city over the walls, I ran into the BBEGs third-in-command. The barb had landed some hits on him, and he'd been the target of most of my attacks, so he wasn't at full health. But there was no way I could take him, so I turned and ran to the last tower I came through, and made my way to the roof, for I had an idea. Stopping in the door to eyebite him, I closed it and went up. Eyebite bought me a turn, so I was at the top for a couple of rounds before he got there.

As for what happened next:

EG: "Any last words?"
Me: "Yeah..."
*backs against edge of tower*
Summons of Khirad
"...stop following me."

BEG: *takes 59 falling damage.*

Which, after the running battle, was enough to kill the bugger.

After a much less exciting chase to get somewhere mildly safe, the next day I went and broke the party out of a dungeon.
Party rogue was both impressed and annoyed.
The DM was annoyed, turns out we would have been given the chance to escape at a point in the future, after being forced some plot.

Master_Rahl22
2010-03-01, 10:40 PM
Fey Pact is a lot of fun, and I have no experience with Vestige Pact. However, keep in mind that at Paragon you can take Twofold Pact, and you gain all the benefits of the second pact, the at-will, power riders, feats and PPs that require it, and the pact boon. So, for example at lvl 11 you could become a Fey/Star Pact Warlock, and if the teleport isn't useful, you can just pick up a +1 to a d20 roll when you get your pact boon. Fey Pact powers do tend to be lower in damage, but you can use Dark or Star (Cha) powers too if you want higher damage options. Fey pact tends to have quite a few Psychic, Fear, and dominate/mind control type powers, so it can be really fun to play the puppet master type of character.

H3llM4rine
2010-03-01, 11:06 PM
Holy crap! That is going to be awesome! I didn't even think about teleporting like that, but now that you've all given me some material to work off, my head's just exploding with all these fun ideas!

Thanks guys!

But! if there _is_ a Vestige Warlock out there, I would love to hear what you do with it as far as RPing, damage, and nifty mechanics. I'm afraid it won't be as extravagant as the teleporting, but I'm sure it will be great. :)

sombrastewart
2010-03-01, 11:36 PM
I've played a Fey pact warlock and had great fun. Well, to be honest, it was a Dual Pact Fey/Dark, but the mobility of Fey teleporting (especially with Ethereal Sidestep) and some Eladrin Boots. I played a human so I'd have access at-wills that attack all the different NADs.

If you play a Feypact warlock, remember that you're going to be looking to invoke those sweet, sweet status effects. The best example is the comparison between Eyebite and Spiteful Glamor; Eyebite has a terrific rider, Spiteful Glamor has more damage potential.

Reynard
2010-03-01, 11:39 PM
And there's Mire the Mind, at level 7. Which is like Eyebite, only it does more damage and the target can't see anybody on your team. And it gives you a bonus to stealth.

Colmarr
2010-03-01, 11:51 PM
But! if there _is_ a Vestige Warlock out there, I would love to hear what you do with it as far as RPing

There was a warforged vestige pact warlock in our SSTL campaign (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104388).

Bengi first appears at post 90, if you want to look him up.

He was roleplayed as a sentient golem who had been deactivated and re-awakened a number of times over vast periods of time. He had a number of "voices" in his head that gave him sometimes-conflicting directions on what to do.

He has since changed to infernal pact (by engaging in suspect experiments on a captured duergar) for the greater damage it offers.

Swordgleam
2010-03-02, 12:12 AM
Not to mention the ability to teleport upwards into trees and such.

Last session, our feylock teleported up into a tree. Then failed the dex check to balance on the branch. That was awkward.

Akal Saris
2010-03-02, 01:24 AM
I play a vestige lock, so I can give a bit of background on them.

The vestige lock is based off of the 3.5 Binder class, which had much more flavor for each vestige. So I homebrewed different fluff for each of my vestiges, in part because I'm playing in a feudal Japan game. Basically, my character is a "Magical girl" in that she has the unique ability to see youkai, aka spirit creatures, and she has a tiny band of youkai who follow her around and protect her. She also has an Arcane Eyeball familiar, who is fluffed as the returned spirit of her sake-loving grandfather! So she's probably one of the only characters around who actually takes orders from her familiar :P

I like vestige locks because they are con-focused, so at the low levels I actually had more HPs than the party's defender did, which meant that the tiny little girl I was playing could pull a sword out of her stomach and glare at the ogre. Their at-will is also very flexible and targets Will, which is the lowest defense generally.

It's also one of the most complicated and versatile classes (like the 3.5 Binder, but less so), since each of your dailies effectively changes your main at-will into a slightly different ability, and also changes your pact boon. So depending on which vestige you bind, you can be a semi-controller, a semi-defender, or a decent striker.

If you do go for Vestige lock, Dragon #382 has some new feats for the class. Personally, however, I'd recommend a fey lock for your first character, since it's simpler than the vestige lock, and the teleporting will help you if you get in a tight situation. In either case, I suggest making one of your first feats "Arcane Familiar" from Arcane Power - having a familiar is a lot of fun for RP and can give you some extra flexibility :)

Kurald Galain
2010-03-02, 07:00 AM
I found vestigelocks to be gimmicky. The feylock is more straightforward to play, and the complexity of your constantly-shifting vestiges adds a bunch of bookkeeping for no noticeable benefit. Thus, I'd recommend the feylock.

H3llM4rine
2010-03-02, 10:32 AM
Akal Saris: Thanks a lot for all the info' on the Vestige 'lock. I really like how much you can change of your character so easily, but how well does it actually work in battle? Do you have to use especially more planning because of it?

Honestly, I don't think I'm ready to play Vestige just yet, but I look forward to it as a future class. I really didn't even think of things that way for D&D and that opens the game up a lot for me.

About playing a Feylock: how do teleport without having my curse trigger Misty Step? Is Otherwind Stride by best option? It seems weak, and I'd like someone to convince me otherwise.

Kurald Galain
2010-03-02, 10:39 AM
About playing a Feylock: how do teleport without having my curse trigger Misty Step? Is Otherwind Stride by best option? It seems weak, and I'd like someone to convince me otherwise.

The simple answer is "play an Eladrin".

Also, at level 10, warlocks get an at-will teleportation utility.

incubus5075
2010-03-02, 10:43 AM
The fey/dark pact someone had mentioned looked fun. Using the CH builder I make up alot of character ideas I use as I DM. How about an Eladrin captured by drow that has managed to escape but not without a dark taint. Perhaps his/her patron is an underling of Lloth?

Yakk
2010-03-02, 10:48 AM
About playing a Feylock: how do teleport without having my curse trigger Misty Step? Is Otherwind Stride by best option? It seems weak, and I'd like someone to convince me otherwise.
Otherworld Stride is strong.

5+int square teleport (easily 40', hits 50'+ eventually), immobilise everyone adjacent to you (which is great if you can find any cluster of opponents).

Go and MC wizard (if you can afford 13 wis, you can MC wizard for a skill training and arcana) and pick up enlarge spell, and it becomes a 5x5 area where each target hit is immobilised, then you teleport nearly anywhere in the battlemat.

Mix that with anyone else in the group having zone-based damage, and you just ruined the bad guys day.

Swordgleam
2010-03-02, 10:51 AM
Is Otherwind Stride by best option? It seems weak, and I'd like someone to convince me otherwise.

Otherwind Stride is great, especially since even feylocks have decent con. Ours would run into a mess of badguys, Otherwind Stride away, and then let the fighter go smashy smashy on them. It's also very handy if you get surrounded, which is a nightmare for a mobility-based striker like you.

Taking Improved Misty Step is also a good idea. And I think there's some sort of item which lets you "store" one curse's worth of pact boon after it triggers? That would give you an extra teleport.

H3llM4rine
2010-03-02, 11:14 AM
Whoops...I was thinking of a different spell. (Ha ha!) Otherworld Stride does seem good. I was thinking of this Ethereal Stride, which can be used as a move action.


Otherwind Stride is great, especially since even feylocks have decent con.

I do _not_ have good con. Perhaps I'm doing it wrong? (Ha.) Suggests tweaks if you'd like:
Str: 8; Con: 10; Dex: 10; Int: 16(+2 Tiefling); Wis: 11; Cha: 17 (+2 Tiefling).

I decided to not go with any Con because I intended to kind of fit the Cha based-Warlock niche, and raise my Int way up rather than my Con.

Thanks. :)

Reynard
2010-03-02, 12:01 PM
Con has little to do with Otherwind Stride, It's a Cha attack, and the Feypact bonus is Int based. High Con, and thus extra HP, might be nice if you find yourself using it to escape, rather than using it as an attack after a move action teleport into a group.

H3llM4rine
2010-03-02, 12:16 PM
Con has little to do with Otherwind Stride, It's a Cha attack, and the Feypact bonus is Int based. High Con, and thus extra HP, might be nice if you find yourself using it to escape, rather than using it as an attack after a move action teleport into a group.

I believe the Fey Pact is more Cha-based. Almost everything has theseDice+Cha, and then many have +Int as well.

So, would a more respectable ability score be something like this?
Str: 8; Con: 13; Dex: 10; Int: 15(+2 Tiefling); Wis: 10; Cha: 17 (+2 Tiefling).

And does my ability score ever change as I level up?

Hzurr
2010-03-02, 12:26 PM
ISo, would a more respectable ability score be something like this?
Str: 8; Con: 13; Dex: 10; Int: 15(+2 Tiefling); Wis: 10; Cha: 17 (+2 Tiefling).

And does my ability score ever change as I level up?

Yes, they change as you level.

At levels 4, 8, 14, 18, 24, and 28; you'll choose 2 ability scores to give a +1 to. (for example, if at level 4 you decided you want to increase your con and int, than you'd have a con score of 14, and an int score of 16)

At levels 11, and 21 you increase all of your scores by 1 point.

So if you continually raise your primary ability score over all 30 levels; your final score will be your starting +8 (unless you have an Epic Destiny that also increases one of these scores)

Swordgleam
2010-03-02, 06:56 PM
Con has little to do with Otherwind Stride

Not directly. But good con means you can stand in one place and lure more enemies to you before using it, because you have the HP to soak up the hits. I should have made that part of the tactic explicit; sorry.

I assumed your feylock would have decent con since most warlocks dip into the other pacts for a power or two. If you don't want to do that, you don't really need con.

H3llM4rine
2010-03-02, 08:24 PM
Not directly. But good con means you can stand in one place and lure more enemies to you before using it, because you have the HP to soak up the hits. I should have made that part of the tactic explicit; sorry.

I assumed your feylock would have decent con since most warlocks dip into the other pacts for a power or two. If you don't want to do that, you don't really need con.

Ah...I didn't think of like that, so thanks for saying it so explicitly. On the other hand, though, I figured I would try to resist going into Con too much because I prefer to specialize.

What would you suggest? A con of 11?
Str: 8; Con: 11; Dex: 10; Int: 16(+2 Tiefling); Wis: 10; Cha: 17 (+2 Tiefling).
Or a con of 13?
Str: 8; Con: 13; Dex: 10; Int: 15(+2 Tiefling); Wis: 10; Cha: 17 (+2 Tiefling).
I'm kind of thinking the latter. XP

Yakk
2010-03-02, 09:00 PM
Sacrifice to Caphion is a must-have feat.

It makes all of your encounter powers reliable, for a small HP cost.

Swordgleam
2010-03-03, 09:15 AM
What would you suggest? A con of 11?
Str: 8; Con: 11; Dex: 10; Int: 16(+2 Tiefling); Wis: 10; Cha: 17 (+2 Tiefling).
Or a con of 13?
Str: 8; Con: 13; Dex: 10; Int: 15(+2 Tiefling); Wis: 10; Cha: 17 (+2 Tiefling).
I'm kind of thinking the latter. XP

Con 13 opens up a lot more feat options, especially a lot of the damage increasing feats. I'd definitely lean towards the second choice.