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Soranar
2010-03-04, 07:04 AM
Can you sneak and charge a foe while mounted?

Corey
2010-03-04, 07:14 AM
Can you sneak and charge a foe while mounted?

Only if you yodel.

Ashiel
2010-03-04, 07:20 AM
Can you sneak and charge a foe while mounted?

Yes. There are several ways you could handle this. I think the most RAW method would be the require both you and your mount to make stealth based checks. Alternatively, if your DM is lenient, he or she may allow you to roll your usual stealth checks with a penalty for being larger (accounting for you and the mount) and applying any penalties for armor for both of you.

Otherwise, it ultimately comes down to "If they don't notice me, can I charge?", to which the answer is a resounding "Yes." (you may charge as a standard action, which you may do during a surprise round).

Volkov
2010-03-04, 07:21 AM
Can you sneak and charge a foe while mounted?

Roll your move silently and hide checks for both you and your mount.

bosssmiley
2010-03-04, 08:09 AM
Can you sneak and charge a foe while mounted?

You can, but that doesn't mean you should. :smallwink:

Soranar
2010-03-04, 08:09 AM
You can, but that doesn't mean you should. :smallwink:

oh but I will

Eldariel
2010-03-04, 08:19 AM
You can, but that doesn't mean you should. :smallwink:

Whisper Gnome riding a feline; seems pretty doable and actually surprisingly rational. Silent pounce, nobody knows what happened except someone vanished, rince and repeat.

pasko77
2010-03-04, 08:31 AM
Only if you yodel.

So you can also have a bardic song bonus!

lsfreak
2010-03-04, 10:00 AM
Yup, though you take the normal penalties (I believe it's -20 to both). There's a Shadow Hand maneuver that lets you move your speed and keep your hide/move silently results from before the attack, which might be worth getting via item (Stalker in the Night, 6th level Shadow Hand)

Emmerask
2010-03-04, 10:16 AM
Invisibility sphere (or maybe a custom spell greater invis sphere) + silence spell would be helping a lot too ^^

Person_Man
2010-03-04, 10:23 AM
You can, but it's not necessary. You and your mount would be making the Hide and Move Silently check before combat starts (though I would argue that only your mount needs to make the Move Silently check, since you are on it's back). Once you declare that you want to attack your enemy, you move into the Surprise Round. Everyone who is aware that there is danger (you, your mount, anyone who made their Spot or Listen check) gets to participate in the Surprise Round. The Surprise Round is limited to a Standard Action, but you can still Charge as a Standard Action if you are limited to one (though only at your standard movement rate, not *2). When the Surprise Round is done, normal combat begins. Using Hide and Move Silently during your Charge is pointless, because you are attacking your enemy before then end of your turn, and once you do, he is aware that there is danger, and would be able to act on the next round.

It's possible that you would want to Hide and Move Silently during combat. But I'm not sure how you would get your mount Hide in Plain Site so that you could do that effectively.

Also, you might just want to play a caster class (Spellthief, Arcane Trickster, etc) with a Familiar. You can Share Spells, like Greater Invisibility and Silence.

Sliver
2010-03-04, 10:28 AM
You can, but it's not necessary. You and your mount would be making the Hide and Move Silently check before combat starts (though I would argue that only your mount needs to make the Move Silently check, since you are on it's back). Once you declare that you want to attack your enemy, you move into the Surprise Round. Everyone who is aware that there is danger (you, your mount, anyone who made their Spot or Listen check) gets to participate in the Surprise Round. The Surprise Round is limited to a Standard Action, but you can still Charge as a Standard Action if you are limited to one (though only at your standard movement rate, not *2). When the Surprise Round is done, normal combat begins. Using Hide and Move Silently during your Charge is pointless, because you are attacking your enemy before then end of your turn, and once you do, he is aware that there is danger, and would be able to act on the next round.

It's possible that you would want to Hide and Move Silently during combat. But I'm not sure how you would get your mount Hide in Plain Site so that you could do that effectively.

Also, you might just want to play a caster class (Spellthief, Arcane Trickster, etc) with a Familiar. You can Share Spells, like Greater Invisibility and Silence.

But if you hide on your mount somehow, you could sneak attack at the end of the mount's charge, so your mount doesn't have to be able to hide in combat as it won't matter..

Emmerask
2010-03-04, 11:23 AM
But if you hide on your mount somehow, you could sneak attack at the end of the mount's charge, so your mount doesn't have to be able to hide in combat as it won't matter..

Interesting not covered by raw though I think.
Im not completly sure if I (as a dm) would allow it, it is a bit too goofy for my taste.

Yuki Akuma
2010-03-04, 11:26 AM
Interesting not covered by raw though I think.
Im not completly sure if I (as a dm) would allow it, it is a bit too goofy for my taste.

Concealing yourself on the back of a horse with, say, blankets piled to make it look like a pack, and then springing out when he drops his guard and shivving him seems too goofy to you?

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Superglucose
2010-03-04, 11:26 AM
Interesting not covered by raw though I think.

RAW is very clear: if you are hidden from view, they are flatfooted against you barring special abilities (uncanny dodge, foresight, etc.)

Flickerdart
2010-03-04, 11:26 AM
So you just play a Half-Minotaur and carry around a sack of Rogues?

Yakk
2010-03-04, 11:29 AM
While you are riding a creature with Mounted Combat, the creature can make any Athletics, Acrobatics, Endurance, or Stealth checks using your base skill check bonus rather than its own if yours is better.
In order to remain hidden from a target, you need at least concealment (or the target cannot be battle-ready). But so long as you start an action hidden, you retain the advantages of hidden (such as combat advantage) until the end of the action.

The justification for this isn't that hard -- while the target might be aware of you by the time you reach them, they won't have enough time to fully prepare a defence against your charge.

Killer Angel
2010-03-04, 11:36 AM
Can you sneak and charge a foe while mounted?

Of course you can. You can sneak (attack) when you're flanking an opponent, so all you have to do is to charge from the opposite side, a target who's in melee with one of your allies. :smallcool:

(oh.. did you intend another thing, right? :smalltongue:)

Curmudgeon
2010-03-04, 11:55 AM
RAW is very clear: if you are hidden from view, they are flatfooted against you barring special abilities (uncanny dodge, foresight, etc.)
Check your rules, please. They are only denied their DEX to AC. Being flat-footed carries additional penalties.

ericgrau
2010-03-04, 12:30 PM
Concealing yourself on the back of a horse with, say, blankets piled to make it look like a pack, and then springing out when he drops his guard and shivving him seems too goofy to you?

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
Frankly if I saw a riderless horse charging at me I would get far out of the way. But maybe if they're bent on attacking your allies and won't back away, while you manage to sneak into your horse in the distance before the fight is already over, and you manage to locate your enemy early enough to provide time for all this, and you make your ride check to dismount as a free action (so you still have a move action to reach your foe), then ok... I guess this could work. But is that really the best plan you could come up with after being allowed so much preparation?!



Roll your move silently and hide checks for both you and your mount.
While sticking to the shadows and taking a -20 penalty on your checks. And, oh yeah, horses don't speak common and don't generally sneak on command. So your horse gets a flat -20 on his check.

The real answer is to get the wizard to cast greater invisiblity on you and maybe on your mount. The silly answer is to get an intelligent cohort mount with shadow barding of silent moves. You also get shadow armor of silent moves. Since you have a cohort mount, he may take class levels (and knows how to use their features thanks to his intelligence). Both of you dip shadowdancer for hide in plain sight. With the +15's from your armors, you charge into battle and even with the -20's to your checks you manage to do so unseen and get your sneak attack.

Glimbur
2010-03-04, 12:56 PM
So you just play a Half-Minotaur and carry around a sack of Rogues?

Take a half-giant Psy-war of sufficient level to Expansion up two sizes. Take the TWF tree. Wield two half-giant psy-wars expanded up one size. Each of them wields two half giants. Each of them wields two humans. Each of them wields two halflings. Each of them wields two kobold rogues, due to Slight Build from the web enhancement to kobolds. Each kobold rogue has three natural attacks with sneak attack. Assuming first level kobolds, that's 2^5, or 32 kobolds, each making 3 attacks for 1d6 sneak each. 96d6 of sneak attack, for an average of 336 damage.

That's what you carry a bunch of rogues for.

2xMachina
2010-03-04, 01:08 PM
Do some riding tricks.

You know the one where the rider hangs off the side of the horse, so it appears no one is on it from 1 side? Do that. Keep hiding behind your horse between attacks.

ericgrau
2010-03-04, 01:13 PM
Oh that's right you can use a horse for cover as a free action, and cover lets you hide. While your enemy will still wonder why there's a horse running towards it (see blankets discussion above), that is a little easier to pull off.

Draz74
2010-03-04, 01:51 PM
Only if you yodel.

In-character, or out-of-character?

Greenish
2010-03-04, 02:05 PM
Of course you can. You can sneak (attack) when you're flanking an opponent, so all you have to do is to charge from the opposite side, a target who's in melee with one of your allies. :smallcool:

(oh.. did you intend another thing, right? :smalltongue:)I seem to recall there being a martial stance that allows you to flank from any square, as long as you threaten and one of your buddies the enemy. That is, you can sneak attack while mounted, with the mount as your flanking buddy.


Whisper Gnome riding a feline; seems pretty doable and actually surprisingly rational. Silent pounce, nobody knows what happened except someone vanished, rince and repeat.Now you made me to want to make a build just for that. :smallbiggrin: