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Demons_eye
2010-03-05, 07:07 PM
Just read American born Chinese (ordered Journey to the west also) and wanted to build this wonderful monkey as best as I can but sadly I can not.

Goals of this build


Be a monkey
Have a way to fly around on a cloud
Grow/Shrink at will (Maybe)
Clones
Shape shifting
Size changing Pole
Gold Armor
Spell casting maybe
Divinity not required (No fun to play a guy that can not die)



My thinking is a Psychic Warrior with the Trickery Devotion with gold painted chain mail. After that I am lost.


And I know some one will post it so I will ninja them now. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitlefr5h9p9h6i92?from=Main.EverythingsBetterWith Monkeys)

AstralFire
2010-03-05, 07:17 PM
Jade Phoenix Mage Swordsage/Sorcerer, make it that monkey race from OA - Vanara I think? - take Mirror Image, pole is a magic item.

Demons_eye
2010-03-05, 07:20 PM
All Pole from OA?

oxybe
2010-03-05, 07:20 PM
the pole is easy: ironwood staff of sizing.

Greenish
2010-03-05, 07:22 PM
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/oa_gallery/Shaman.jpg
Vanara from OA. I know it was mentioned, but since I looked it up I'm damn well going to say it!

Expanded Knowledge can get you metamorphosis, which is a shapechange.

Only thing you're missing is the cloud, and that could be refluffed broom of flying or magic carpet.

AbyssKnight
2010-03-05, 07:48 PM
Be a Monkey
Monkey Hengeyokai (Oriental Adventures)
Vanara (Oriental Adventures)
Weremonkey (Monster Manual)
Anthropomorphic Money (Savage Species)
Hadozee (Stormwrack)

Fly on a Cloud
Use a reflavored Carpet of Flying
Cloud Chariot spell (Wu Jen 8, Complete Arcane)

Grow/Shrink-pretty much all spells/powers
Enlarge Person/Reduce Person
Expansion/Compression
Giant Size (Wu Jen 7, Complete Arcane)

Clones
Mirror Image
Simulacrum

Shapeshifting
Druid
Polymorph/Alter Self/Shapechange
Metamorphisis
Hengeyokai- human, monkey, and hybrid forms
Weremoneky- human, monkey, and hybrid forms
Changling

Size Changing Pole
Enlarge Weapon on a quarterstaff (Wizard 2, Complete Scoundrel)

Gold Armor
Maybe we can do without this, if not just make it Mithral armor that looks gold

Spellcasting
Wizard or Wu Jen

I would go with Monkey Hengeyokai or Vanara Monk 2/Wizard or Wu Jen 3/ Enlightened Fist 10.

Interestingly, if someone asked me for Goku, it would be pretty similar.

Demons_eye
2010-03-05, 07:49 PM
Cool beans. Thanks everyone did not think it would be as simple as that.

Edit: @ above, Goku was based on Sun Wukong witch is weird. When I read American born Chinese I thought "Hay this sounds like goku...."

Brother Oni
2010-03-05, 08:00 PM
Note that the ability to fly on a cloud is solely due to the Japanese TV series version called Monkey and was perpetuated by Dragonball.

In the original novel, Sun Kung didn't need a cloud to get about as he could somersault faster.

Maybe you might need to add a flaw or a weakness like Vulnerability: Mountain or Flaw: Can't jump out of someone's hand? :smalltongue:

Innis Cabal
2010-03-05, 08:16 PM
Note that the ability to fly on a cloud is solely due to the Japanese TV series version called Monkey and was perpetuated by Dragonball.

In the original novel, Sun Kung didn't need a cloud to get about as he could somersault faster.

Maybe you might need to add a flaw or a weakness like Vulnerability: Mountain or Flaw: Can't jump out of someone's hand? :smalltongue:

Not 100% correct. He could somersault, but he could land on clouds, so it made it appear as if he was flying.

Hecore
2010-03-05, 09:18 PM
Gold Armor
Maybe we can do without this, if not just make it Mithral armor that looks gold


Gold armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#celestialArmor)

balistafreak
2010-03-05, 09:54 PM
Oh my god it's the frickin' Monkey King.

As a reader of the FULL Journey to the West (unabridged translation, about a foot and a half of literature), I fully endorse this project.

But there's one key feature of him that makes him a worthwhile protagonist that you seem to have missed.

Sun Wukong didn't want to be "good". We're talking about a guy who raided the freakin' heavens for fruit and wine. To be honest, it gave immortality, but this is the guy so strong he was almost never (if at all, if I can remember correctly) outmatched in magic or battle. EVER. (The incident with Buddha tricking him doesn't count. It's... quite hilarious.)

We're talking about a guy who was imprisoned beneath a mountain. As in, not inside of a hollow space in a mountain, but literally had the mountain ON HIM.

And his "get out of jail free" card? Having to escort a monk to the west in search of... scriptures, was it? Well, whatever it was, but Sun Wukong was basically the protagonist the entire story. Screw that monk who was so Lawful Stupid that he never, never saw through a ruse of a monster who wanted to eat him (because apparently being Lawful Stupid makes you tasty to demons), Sun Wukong would always charge/somersault/pwn his way onto the scene.

Making himself huge? Then turning into a multi-armed demon? Then cloning himself a hojillion times? All the while armed with a staff that was acting a support pillar for the world before Heaven (somewhat hesitantly) granted it to him as a weapon because EVERY SINGLE OTHER WEAPON IN HEAVEN'S ARSENAL WAS TOO LIGHT FOR HIM?

... I'm afraid you will never be able to capture the essence of the Great Monkey King in less than epic levels. And even then... it's just not possible.

Sun Wukong makes Chuck Norris cringe in terror.

Demons_eye
2010-03-05, 11:04 PM
Ok, after that I must try.

Using 32 point buy.

Vanaras

Starting:

STR :14
DEX :14
CON :14
INT :14
WIS :14
CHA :10

Ending
STR :22 (+4 from leveling)
DEX :20
CON :20
INT :22
WIS :22
CHA :16


Monk2/Psychic Warrior 18

Powers:

First level:
Compression
Expansion
Grip of Iron

Second level
Animal Affinity
Hustle
Strength of My Enemy

Third level
Empathic Feedback
Vampiric Blade
Ubiquitous Vision

Forth level
Freedom of Movement
Immovability
Energy Adaptation

Fifth level
Psychofeedback
Adapt Body
Oak Body

Sixth level
Mind Blank
Suspend Life
Dispelling Buffer


Other powers:
Metamorphosis



Feats:

Improved unarmed Strike (Monk)
Improved Grapple (Monk)
Combat Reflexes (Monk)
Combat Expertise (First)
Monkey Grip (Third)
Improved Trip (Psychic Warrior)
Improved Disarm (Psychic Warrior)
Expanded Knowledge (Sixth)
Scorpion's Grasp (Psychic Warrior)
Snap kick (Ninth)
Two-Weapon Fighting (Psychic Warrior)
Trickery Devotion (Twelfth)
(Psychic Warrior)
Animal Devotion (Fifteenth)
Earth's Embrace (Psychic Warrior)
Dodge (Eighteenth)
Karmic Strike (Psychic Warrior)


Items:

Pillar of the heavens: +1 Staff Sizing (1d6/1d6 Budging x2, 8,000)
Golden Armor of the Sea Dragon: +3 Chain Mail (Celestial Armor 22,400)
Cloud-walking Boots: Boots of striding and sprinting.

Belt of magnificence: +6 all stats 200,000)


That's all I got for now, any help is welcomed.

AslanCross
2010-03-05, 11:10 PM
Jade Phoenix Mage Swordsage/Sorcerer, make it that monkey race from OA - Vanara I think? - take Mirror Image, pole is a magic item.

This, pretty much. I don't know how to duplicate his "make clones of myself using my hair" ability, though.

StoryKeeper
2010-03-05, 11:17 PM
This, pretty much. I don't know how to duplicate his "make clones of myself using my hair" ability, though.

Mirror Image maybe? Isn't there a psionic power for it?

By the way, love that Sun Wukong is getting some attention, and that somebody realizes that an extended pole and flying on a cloud wasn't done by Dragonball first :D (though I do wish Dragonball Z hadn't abandoned Dragonball's various oriental folklore references.)

Brother Oni
2010-03-06, 07:19 AM
Pillar of the heavens: +1 Staff Sizing (1d6/1d6 Budging x2, 8,000)


I'm not too familiar with D&D notation, but does that include the fact that the Gold Tipped Cudgel weighs somewhere in the region of 7.5 metric tonnes?

Also is there anyway to include the fact that he was hatched from a stone egg into his attributes? Maybe some sort of earth element alignment?

Demons_eye
2010-03-06, 07:49 AM
I'm not too familiar with D&D notation, but does that include the fact that the Gold Tipped Cudgel weighs somewhere in the region of 7.5 metric tonnes?


I vaguely remember that you can make you weapon out of gold or some thing and that increase the threat by one more. IE x2->x3



Also is there anyway to include the fact that he was hatched from a stone egg into his attributes? Maybe some sort of earth element alignment?

I would like to but that would increase LA and that mean less PC levels.

After work I will stat out the jade phoenix version.

AbyssKnight
2010-03-06, 10:38 AM
Well, if you want to make the staff heavy, you can make it out of Alchemical Gold. It now does damage as if one size larger (1d8/1d8) but takes an Exotic Weapon Prof to wield.

The Enlarge Weapon and Mighty Wallop spells will also ramp up the damage for your big stick.

Brother Oni
2010-03-06, 12:09 PM
As a reader of the FULL Journey to the West (unabridged translation, about a foot and a half of literature), I fully endorse this project.


I know you're trying for a comedic breakdown of Sun Kung's character and plot of Journey to the West, but there's a number of mis-understandings in your summary that make me wonder about the accuracy of your translated copy.

Can I assume these are intentional errors for the purpose of hyperbole?



I would like to but that would increase LA and that mean less PC levels.


Couldn't you fit in a bought off LA in your character build? After all, he fought and defeated Heaven in the prologue for Journey to the West, so he's epic level, if not a minor divinity, by the time he escorts Tong Sam Jong to India.

Oslecamo
2010-03-06, 12:30 PM
Couldn't you fit in a bought off LA in your character build? After all, he fought and defeated Heaven in the prologue for Journey to the West, so he's epic level, if not a minor divinity, by the time he escorts Tong Sam Jong to India.

Honestly, the monkey king has so many abilities that I would say he's an epic gestalt wizard/factotum, probably the strongest gestalt combination.

Honestly, even Exalted would have trouble stating this bad monkey out. Doing it pre-epic D&D is pretty much impossible unless we use pun-pun level cheese.

Hmm, monky king being pun-pun would make a lot of sense. And then the DM god droped a giant rock on him untill he agreed to play nice with the rest of the party.

Yora
2010-03-06, 01:25 PM
It all reminds me of Hanuman from indian mythology, who actually is a god. I assume he came to China with buddhism.

Shpadoinkle
2010-03-06, 01:50 PM
Class: DM's girlfriend
Level: 1/0

Note that that's undefined, not level 1 in one class and 0 in another.

Demons_eye
2010-03-06, 02:55 PM
Honestly, the monkey king has so many abilities that I would say he's an epic gestalt wizard/factotum, probably the strongest gestalt combination.

Honestly, even Exalted would have trouble stating this bad monkey out. Doing it pre-epic D&D is pretty much impossible unless we use pun-pun level cheese.

Hmm, monky king being pun-pun would make a lot of sense. And then the DM god droped a giant rock on him untill he agreed to play nice with the rest of the party.



Couldn't you fit in a bought off LA in your character build? After all, he fought and defeated Heaven in the prologue for Journey to the West, so he's epic level, if not a minor divinity, by the time he escorts Tong Sam Jong to India.

One of the goals of this build is to not be immortal because its no fun. Having an I win button is lame, to me at lest. Stating him out as an NPC might be fun as that could explain everything but I am trying to make him for players. I don't play Epic or Exalted so I could not stat that but if you want go ahead I wont stop you. I do plan on making an Arcane/Divine/Psychic version of him but other then that I am at a lost of what to do. MAYBE make a MnM version too.

taltamir
2010-03-06, 02:56 PM
sun wukong was a min maxing munchiken... the solution was "rocks fall, you die" (well, mountain fall) and he survived that too...

the staff isn't HIS ability, its just a major artifact. he didn't have a flying cloud, he had the ability to leap leagues with a single jump, and he could WALK on clouds. i don't think you need to mimic this with expisting RAW spells, just have it written down as an ability of his.

he is a deity, whose abilities include walking on clouds and jumping leagues... totally unkillable, etc.

Prime32
2010-03-06, 03:22 PM
Oh my god it's the frickin' Monkey King.

As a reader of the FULL Journey to the West (unabridged translation, about a foot and a half of literature), I fully endorse this project.

But there's one key feature of him that makes him a worthwhile protagonist that you seem to have missed.

Sun Wukong didn't want to be "good". We're talking about a guy who raided the freakin' heavens for fruit and wine. To be honest, it gave immortality, but this is the guy so strong he was almost never (if at all, if I can remember correctly) outmatched in magic or battle. EVER. (The incident with Buddha tricking him doesn't count. It's... quite hilarious.)

We're talking about a guy who was imprisoned beneath a mountain. As in, not inside of a hollow space in a mountain, but literally had the mountain ON HIM.

And his "get out of jail free" card? Having to escort a monk to the west in search of... scriptures, was it? Well, whatever it was, but Sun Wukong was basically the protagonist the entire story. Screw that monk who was so Lawful Stupid that he never, never saw through a ruse of a monster who wanted to eat him (because apparently being Lawful Stupid makes you tasty to demons), Sun Wukong would always charge/somersault/pwn his way onto the scene.

Making himself huge? Then turning into a multi-armed demon? Then cloning himself a hojillion times? All the while armed with a staff that was acting a support pillar for the world before Heaven (somewhat hesitantly) granted it to him as a weapon because EVERY SINGLE OTHER WEAPON IN HEAVEN'S ARSENAL WAS TOO LIGHT FOR HIM?

... I'm afraid you will never be able to capture the essence of the Great Monkey King in less than epic levels. And even then... it's just not possible.

Sun Wukong makes Chuck Norris cringe in terror.
You forgot his ability to see into people's souls, the 72 lives (all of them immortal) and the power to transform anyone or anything into anyone or anything (like polymorph any object, but he could make any transformation permanent).

When Vael was starting up that Fate/stay night game, I considered submitting Wukong as Rider, but dropped it when I realised he basically had the powers of all the canon Servants combined.


That said... maybe a silver dragon could emulate some of his powers? (cloudwalking and changing shape) Some caster cheese build, since going full spellcaster is the only way to get that many abilities.

AbyssKnight
2010-03-06, 03:27 PM
he didn't have a flying cloud, he had the ability to leap leagues with a single jump, and he could WALK on clouds. i don't think you need to mimic this with expisting RAW spells, just have it written down as an ability of his.


RAW covers this, at least in Epic levels. A Balance DC 120 lets you walk on clouds, and getting a high enough speed (which automatically increases Jump) and Jump skill will let you do it.

Oslecamo
2010-03-06, 03:29 PM
One of the goals of this build is to not be immortal because its no fun. Having an I win button is lame, to me at lest. Stating him out as an NPC might be fun as that could explain everything but I am trying to make him for players.

But the problem is that Sun Wukong is a "I win!" character that curb stomped the heavens themselves.

If you want an underpowered version of the monkey king, I sugest you my homebrew silver dragon class that is intended for players:

Silver dragon:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG86.jpg


HD:d12
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1 | +1 | +2|+0 |+2 |Silver Dragon body, Arcane blood, Alternate form
2| +2| +3|+0 |+3 | Keen senses, Blizzard Breath
3| +3| +3|+1| +3| Blindsense 60 feets , Cloudwalking
4| +4| +4| +1|+4 | Wings, Lesser Silver Magic 1/day.
5| +5| +4| +1| +4| Paralyzing breath
6| +6| +5|+2 |+5 | +1 Str, +1 Con
7| +7| +5| +2| +5| Lesser Silver magic 2/day, +1 Cha.
8| +8| +6| +2| +5| +1 Str, +1 Con
9| +9| +6| +3| +6| Lesser Silver magic 3/day, +1 Cha
10| +10| +7|+3 |+7 |Tail slap, Growth
11| +11| +7| +3|+7 | Silver Magic 1/day, +1 Cha
12| +12| +8| +4|+8 | Arcane Skin, +1 Str
13| +13| +8| +4| +8|Iron Scales, +1 Con
14| +14| +9| +4| +9| Silver Magic 2/day, +1 Cha
15| +15| +9| +5| +9| Frightfull presence, Growth, crush.
16| +16| +10| +5| +10| +1 Str, Silver Magic 3/day
17| +17| +10| +5|+10 | +1 Con, +1 Str Lesser Silver Magic 4/day
18| +18| +11|+6 |+11 | +1 Cha Silver Magic 4 /day
19 | +19| +11| +6| +11| +1 Str, +1 Con Lesser Silver Magic 5/day, Silver Magic 5/day
20| +20| +12| +6| +12| Reverse Gravity, +1 Str, +1 Con, +1 Cha

[/TABLE]
2 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Concentration, climb, jump, spot, listen, apraise, bluff, intimidate, Knowledge(any), spellcraft.

Proefeciencies: a silver dragon isn't proefecient with any armor or weapons, besides his own natural weapons.


Features:
Silver dragon Body: The silver dragon loses all other racial bonuses, and gains Dragon traits, cold subtype, bite 1d8 damage, 2 claws attack for 1d6 damage each and 40 base speed, medium size. The silver dragon has wings, but they're too weak to do anything for now. His claws are capable of fine manipulation and can be used for somatic components of spellcasting or anything else a human hand could do.

The Silver dragon also gets a natural armor bonus equal to his Con modifier. Whenever the silver dragon grows one size category, his natural armor increases by a further 1.

The silver dragon gains resistance to electrecity and acid equal to it's HD, but takes +50% damage from fire attacks.


Arcane Blood:A silver dragon receives spells known and spells per day as a bard of same level, but he casts as a sorceror and takes his spells known from the sorceror/wizard spell list.


If it multiclasses as a bard it's spellcasting increases as a bard.
If it multiclasses as a sorceror it counts as already having sorceror casting depending on it's dragon level, as shown on the following table.

{table]Dragon level | Virtual sorceror casting
1|-
2|1
3|2
4|3
5|4
6|5
7|6
8|6
9|7
10|8
11|8
12|9
13|10
14|10
15|11
16|12
17|12
18|13
19|13
20|13
[/table]

So for example a dragon 2 who takes a level of sorceror would count as already having 1 level of sorceror and gains the spell slots and spell knowns that a sorceror gains when leveling from level 1 to 2, but not the spell slots and spell knowns from the 1st level of sorceror, nor the familiar ability

A dragon 18 who takes a level of sorceror would count as having 14 levels of sorceror(14+1) and gain the spell slots and spell knowns that a sorceror gains when leveling from level 13 to 14, but not the spell slots and spell knowns that a sorceror gets from level 1 to 13, nor the familiar ability

His Caster level remains equal to his full HD when multiclassing to sorceror.

If a dragon takes a casting prc, it may choose to advance his casting as that of a sorceror. So a dragon 10/loremaster 10 would cast as a 18th level sorceror (he would still receive spell slots and spells knowns from a bard 10 from the first 10 dragon levels and then the spell slots and spell knowns from a sorceror 11-18 for the loremaster levels)

Alternate Form (Su): A silver dragon can assume any animal or humanoid form of Medium size or smaller as a standard action 1/day for each HD it has. The dragon can remain in its animal or humanoid form until it chooses to assume a new one or return to its natural form.

Keen senses:The silver dragon sees four times as well as a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. It also has darkvision out to 120 feet.

Blizzard Breath:Cone 30 foot dealing 1d6 cold damage/HD with DC ref of 10+1/2 HD+Con modifier for half every 1d4 turns. Cone increases by 5 foot with each extra HD the player takes from here.

Blindsense:as the normal ability, range 60 feets.


Cloudwalking (Su):A silver dragon can tread on clouds or fog as though on solid ground. The ability functions continuously but can be negated or resumed at will.


Ability score increase: The silver dragon ability scores increase by the shown amount.

{table]Level | Bonus gained
6| +1 Str, +1 Con
7| +1 Cha.
8| +1 Str, +1 Con
9| +1 Cha
11| +1 Cha
12| +1 Str
13| +1 Con
14| +1 Cha
16| +1 Str
17| +1 Con, +1 Str
18| +1 Cha
19 | +1 Str, +1 Con
20| +1 Str, +1 Con, +1 Cha
[/table]


Wings:The silver dragon becomes able to fly at the speed of 10 feets per HD, with poor maneuverability. The maneuverability doesn't increase naturaly, but players can take the Savage Species feat that increases it by two steps(stackable). Each wing can also be now used to deliver a natural atack dealing 1d4 damage.

Lesser silver magic:The silver dragon can use fog cloud and feather fall as SLAs the indicated number of times in the table per day.

Paralyzing breath:Cone 45 feets, fort DC 10+1/2HD+Con or be paralyzed 1 round for each 2HD of the silver dragon. Cone increases by 5 feets for every extra HD from here.


Growth:At 10th level the silver dragon grows to large size.
At 15th level the silver dragon grows to huge size.

His AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change acordingly, but he doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties.

Tail slap:The silver dragon can now make a tail slap attack dealing 1d8 damage(already taking in acount large size).

Silver Magic:The silver dragon can use Control Winds and Control weather as SLAs a number of times per day as indicated in the table.


Arcane skin: The silver dragon gains SR equal to his HD+11.

Iron Scales: The silver dragon gains DR/magic equal to half his HD.

Crush: The dragon can make a crush attack dealing 2d8 damage base, already taking in acount huge size
This special attack allows a flying or jumping dragon of at least Huge size to land on opponents as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. Crush attacks are effective only against opponents three or more size categories smaller than the dragon (though it can attempt normal overrun or grapple attacks against larger opponents).

A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the dragonís body. Creatures in the affected area must succeed on a Reflex save (DC equal to that of the dragonís breath weapon) or be pinned, automatically taking bludgeoning damage during the next round unless the dragon moves off them. If the dragon chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. Pinned opponents take damage from the crush each round if they donít escape.

A crush attack deals the indicated damage plus 1Ĺ times the dragonís Strength bonus (round down).

frightfull presence:The ability takes effect automatically whenever the dragon attacks, charges, or flies overhead. Creatures within a radius of 30 feet ◊ half the dragon's level are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than the dragon. A potentially affected creature that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + Ĺ dragonís HD + dragonís Cha modifier) remains immune to that dragonís frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, creatures with 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Dragons ignore the frightful presence of other dragons.


Reverse gravity:the silver dragon can now use reverse gravity as a SLA 1/day for every 5 HD it has. Save=10+1/2HD+Cha modifier.



Change shape at 1st level allows him to disguise as a mokey, human or human-monky from OA. It has spells, can walk on clouds, flies, breathes and then spellcasting for the rest. Get a sizing staff out of alchemical gold. Profit.

For more of my homebred monster classes, check here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7928088#post7928088).

balistafreak
2010-03-06, 03:50 PM
I know you're trying for a comedic breakdown of Sun Kung's character and plot of Journey to the West, but there's a number of mis-understandings in your summary that make me wonder about the accuracy of your translated copy.

Can I assume these are intentional errors for the purpose of hyperbole?

... yeah. :p Most of those were simply the memetic versions of exaggerated folktales that I heard from my dad, who heard them from his dad, who heard them from his dad...

Hilariously, the "truth" still isn't too far off from what was actually in the book. I will recommend this as reading to a great deal of people, along side the other door-stoppers of Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Outlaws of the Marsh (sometimes known as Bandits of the Marsh or Water Margin). Three Kingdoms inspired the entire Dynasty line (Dynasty Warriors most famously) and Outlaws of the Marsh inspired the Suidoken (I probably didn't spell that right) series of RPGs.

Asian literature is awesome. /shameless fanboyism

Brother Oni
2010-03-06, 06:29 PM
... yeah. :p Most of those were simply the memetic versions of exaggerated folktales that I heard from my dad, who heard them from his dad, who heard them from his dad...

Hilariously, the "truth" still isn't too far off from what was actually in the book. I will recommend this as reading to a great deal of people, along side the other door-stoppers of Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Outlaws of the Marsh (sometimes known as Bandits of the Marsh or Water Margin). Three Kingdoms inspired the entire Dynasty line (Dynasty Warriors most famously) and Outlaws of the Marsh inspired the Suidoken (I probably didn't spell that right) series of RPGs.

Asian literature is awesome. /shameless fanboyism

Fair enough. :smallbiggrin:

I do have one piece of advice for those people attempting to read Romance of the Three Kingdoms - try and play a Dynasty Warriors game concurrently with the book. Being able to place faces (or at least an artist's impression) to names makes sorting out the various sides much easier, especially if you're not familiar with Chinese names.

However the Gensou Suikoden series of games has very little in common with the source novel (they both have 108 'good guy' characters and that's about it).

Amiel
2010-03-06, 06:51 PM
Am wondering; are you attempting to design a sun wukong, or The Sun Wukong?
If the latter, it may be easier working within the Exalted ruleset.

Here are some of the feats attributed to this monkey; Sun Wukong is the physical incarnation of the Chaotic Neutral alignment.

-He can lift his 8,100 kg (slightly heavier than 7.5 metric tons) golden rod with ease; and can shrink it to the size of a sewing needle and hide it behind his ear
-He is capable of moving 54,000 kilometres in one somersault
-His 72 transformations allows him to transform into various animals and objects. However, he has slight problems with transforming into people, as he cannot completely hide his tail
-He went toe-to-toe with the best generals of Heaven; and was completely able to hold his own. In fact, his headband is so that he doesn't and cannot completely own the opposition
-Every single one of his hairs is itself a clone of the Monkey King himself, or various weapons, animals or other objects
-He was born from a mystical stone at Time's Antiquity from primal chaos

Oslecamo
2010-03-06, 07:17 PM
-Every single one of his hairs is itself a clone of the Monkey King himself, or various weapons, animals or other objects


That isn't exactly true. I believe it would be more acurate to say that he can transform his hairs into whatever he wants.

theMycon
2010-03-06, 07:22 PM
However the Gensou Suikoden series of games has very little in common with the source novel (they both have 108 'good guy' characters and that's about it).

In the first two, you can pretty easily place which character is which (at least for the "core 36" AKA those whose names come up often enough to remember- I imagine if I remembered more new ones would stand out), a lot of the little jokes make more sense, and the plot of the first one is modeled after the plot of the book. Ditto a few nonsensical challenges, which mimic ones from the book (I.E. Barbed lances-> fire spears, etc.)

Other than those, yeah.

balistafreak
2010-03-06, 07:28 PM
I do have one piece of advice for those people attempting to read Romance of the Three Kingdoms - try and play a Dynasty Warriors game concurrently with the book. Being able to place faces (or at least an artist's impression) to names makes sorting out the various sides much easier, especially if you're not familiar with Chinese names.

WHAT

You'll excuse me, but I picked up the PS2 controller exactly once while reading RotTK. I put it down an hour later, my mind spinning not with understanding but confusion. Perhaps the names and faces help, but not the history. At all. Not even close. :p

That being said, playing the game before reading the book, and getting familiar with "characters" helps. :)


However the Gensou Suikoden series of games has very little in common with the source novel (they both have 108 'good guy' characters and that's about it).

There's actually quite a few other similiarities aside from that, but they're quite subtle and really only noticeable when you've beaten the game and then played it again while reading a guide dedicated to pointing out the similiarities. Like how your "base" is always near water, just like the Outlaw's Marsh. Things like that.

But yeah, since Suikoden is (rightfully so) more interested in its own original storylines, this is understandable. It's source material inspiration still is visible, though.

Amiel
2010-03-06, 07:30 PM
That isn't exactly true. I believe it would be more acurate to say that he can transform his hairs into whatever he wants.

Not exactly sure how this is different to what I wrote ;)


In addition, each of his hairs could be transformed as well, so by pulling a few hairs, and chewing them up, he could produce an army of copies of himself.



OP, this site (http://www.pantheon.org/articles/s/sun_wu-kung.html) may be relevant to your interests.

AslanCross
2010-03-06, 10:24 PM
It all reminds me of Hanuman from indian mythology, who actually is a god. I assume he came to China with buddhism.

Yep. Hanuman and Wukong do share a lot of similarities, though if I'm not mistaken, Wukong was a more chaotic figure than Hanuman, who was most known for his devotion to Rama.

Hanuman was the son of Vayu the wind god, which is probably where he got his amazing leaping ability from. I think he was also depicted as wielding a mace instead of a staff. The Ramayana text we used was rather lousy, but I got the impression that Hanuman could also increase or decrease his size.

Brother Oni
2010-03-07, 07:39 AM
-He can lift his 8,100 kg (slightly heavier than 7.5 metric tons) golden rod with ease; and can shrink it to the size of a sewing needle and hide it behind his ear

It depends on which conversion system you're using. Traditionally, the weapon weighed 13,500 catties and a catty has variable conversions into metric depending on which country you're working in.


WHAT

You'll excuse me, but I picked up the PS2 controller exactly once while reading RotTK. I put it down an hour later, my mind spinning not with understanding but confusion. Perhaps the names and faces help, but not the history. At all. Not even close. :p

That being said, playing the game before reading the book, and getting familiar with "characters" helps. :)

I agree that the history isn't accurate, but I'm after the characters names.

With at least 5 famous generals of the main sides, all the strategists, the multiple rulers (of which the Wu side went through three), and all the deposed sides (the Yuan, Lu Bu, etc) any way that helps you pin down who is on what side is useful.

I suppose it didn't help that my copy of Three Kingdoms copied the original author's style more accurately, in that he was biased in favour of Shu and Liu Bei in particular, so most of the time in respect, Liu Bei is referred to with his style name, Xuande.

Adumbration
2010-03-07, 07:59 AM
As a sidenote the class Wu Jen from Complete Arcane would be a better fit by far than a wizard or a sorcerer, if we give him caster levels. Wu Jen has Body Outside Body spell, which basically creates multiple clones, Giant Size which is exactly what it says it is, as well as multiple other flavorful and fitting spells.

Amiel
2010-03-07, 08:14 AM
It depends on which conversion system you're using. Traditionally, the weapon weighed 13,500 catties and a catty has variable conversions into metric depending on which country you're working in.


Yes, a catty is the English name for jin; a standard unit of mass used across East Asia (East and South East); not surprisingly, it was invented by the Chinese.

Regarding variable conversions, very true. The original author may have been using the 600 gramme measurement; 13500x0.600=8100 kg.
It is also entirely possible that the measures they used all those centuries ago was/are different to what the standards are today.