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Talbot
2010-03-06, 11:34 PM
The SRD has this to say:

"Benefit

You can create any wondrous item whose prerequisites you meet. Enchanting a wondrous item takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its price. To enchant a wondrous item, you must spend 1/25 of the itemís price in XP and use up raw materials costing half of this price.

You can also mend a broken wondrous item if it is one that you could make. Doing so costs half the XP, half the raw materials, and half the time it would take to craft that item in the first place.

Some wondrous items incur extra costs in material components or XP, as noted in their descriptions. These costs are in addition to those derived from the itemís base price. You must pay such a cost to create an item or to mend a broken one. "

Look at the second sentence of the first paragraph; grammatically, it sounds like you pay 1/50th the item's cost in raw materials, but it could also be taken as 1/2 the item's cost in raw materials. IMO, the first makes more sense (I mean, how much does leather/metal really cost? The expensive part's the magic, which you're providing), but I've never really messed around with crafting before, so I thought I'd ask.

Also, do I need a Craft skill to use this feat? If so, which one?

What are the general rules for imbuing an item with a permanent version of some spell (say, Nystul's Magic Aura or Haste?)

Finally, can I further enchant something I already have? Let's say I want to turn my +4 Gloves of Dex into +6, or add the Evasion ability to another magic ring I already have. Are there instructions for figuring the cost in cash and exp for these somewhere, or do you just subtract what you already have from the price of the finished item and go from there?

Starscream
2010-03-06, 11:51 PM
1) You pay half the price in $$$. You pay 1/25th in XP. The justification for this is that making the effects of the magic permanent requires a lot of expensive materials. The item itself (even though it has to be of masterwork quality) is usually pretty cheap.

2) No, you don't specifically need craft. To, say, enchant a magic sword you would need a sword of at least masterwork quality. If you go out and buy one, you can enchant it. If you want to make one yourself and then enchant it, you'd need to craft it.

3) There aren't so much rules as guidelines for stuff like that. Things like permanent haste can easily break the game, so it is recommended that DMs nix ideas like that.

4) Yes, you can further enchant items. To make a +2 sword out of a +1 sword, simply subtract the price of the +1 from the +2 and create as usual. This mostly applies to things like weapons and armor, however, which often have multiple stacking enhancements (+3 and Flaming for example). With things like Rings and Wondrous Items it is not usually an option, as otherwise there would be nothing stopping players from stacking the effects of a dozen rings onto their two ring item slots. But I personally would allow it for simple numeric bonuses, though. Turning a Cloak of Resistance +3 into a Cloak of Resistance +5 is reasonable, for example.

Yorrin
2010-03-06, 11:51 PM
Go look at the "Creating Magic Items" section of the DMG, and the info on "Craft" in PHB. They will answer all your questions and more.

KillianHawkeye
2010-03-07, 01:36 AM
You can create any wondrous item whose prerequisites you meet. Enchanting a wondrous item takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its price. To enchant a wondrous item, you must spend 1/25 of the itemís price in XP and use up raw materials costing half of this price.
... ... "

Look at the second sentence of the first paragraph; grammatically, it sounds like you pay 1/50th the item's cost in raw materials, but it could also be taken as 1/2 the item's cost in raw materials. IMO, the first makes more sense (I mean, how much does leather/metal really cost? The expensive part's the magic, which you're providing), but I've never really messed around with crafting before, so I thought I'd ask.

Bolded for reference. The word price refers to the base GP value of the item. You pay 1/25 of the item's price in XP, and use up half of the item's price in materials.

Talbot
2010-03-07, 04:50 AM
Bolded for reference. The word price refers to the base GP value of the item. You pay 1/25 of the item's price in XP, and use up half of the item's price in materials.

Right. The problem with that sentence, though, is the use of the word "this" which implies the most immediate subject, i.e., the new, modified 1/25th price. If it had said "that price" (referring to a previously referenced subject) or "the base price" (as other item creation feats do), it would have been much clearer. WOTC should hire better editors.

some guy
2010-03-07, 07:30 AM
With things like Rings and Wondrous Items it is not usually an option, as otherwise there would be nothing stopping players from stacking the effects of a dozen rings onto their two ring item slots.

From the DMG page 288:
"If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a characterís body the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection +2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5. "

So, according the DMG you can actually stack a lot in just rings. It would cost more money than normal, but I don't think any sane DM would allow a Ring of feather falling and of protection +5 and of wizardry (III) and of freedom of movement. (Taking Feather Fall as base enchantment, this ring would cost 242.000 gp., wich is actually quite cheap.)

Saph
2010-03-07, 07:58 AM
Right. The problem with that sentence, though, is the use of the word "this" which implies the most immediate subject, i.e., the new, modified 1/25th price. If it had said "that price" (referring to a previously referenced subject) or "the base price" (as other item creation feats do), it would have been much clearer. WOTC should hire better editors.

The meaning's not that difficult to follow, and just in case it was, the Dungeon Master's Guide includes several example of crafting prices. The cloak of elvenkind is specifically listed on page 283 as an illustration, in the section titled "Creating Magic Items". It has a base price of 2,500 gold, and so costs 1,250 gold and 100 XP to create.

Yuki Akuma
2010-03-07, 08:10 AM
Right. The problem with that sentence, though, is the use of the word "this" which implies the most immediate subject, i.e., the new, modified 1/25th price. If it had said "that price" (referring to a previously referenced subject) or "the base price" (as other item creation feats do), it would have been much clearer. WOTC should hire better editors.

Assuming it means you only pay 1/50 of the GP cost of the item when crafting it involves you consciously ignoring the entire magic item chapter of the DMG.

Debihuman
2010-03-07, 12:27 PM
The problem with assigning costs to Wondrous Items (not swords or other items that have their own rules regarding costs to make) is that The DMG and Rules Compendium differ quite a bit. The RC is more current, but it is less likely that a DM will actually have it and have adjusted for cost changes.

How often you use them and how they are activated can also affect costs. A magic widget you that you can use 3 times a day is more costly than one you can use once a day.

Debby

Talbot
2010-03-07, 12:45 PM
Assuming it means you only pay 1/50 of the GP cost of the item when crafting it involves you consciously ignoring the entire magic item chapter of the DMG.

Or it means I was just looking at the SRD, and was confused, which was why I posted this thread. You know, either or.

ericgrau
2010-03-07, 02:04 PM
Look at the second sentence of the first paragraph; grammatically, it sounds like you pay 1/50th the item's cost in raw materials, but it could also be taken as 1/2 the item's cost in raw materials. IMO, the first makes more sense (I mean, how much does leather/metal really cost? The expensive part's the magic, which you're providing), but I've never really messed around with crafting before, so I thought I'd ask.
1/2



Also, do I need a Craft skill to use this feat? If so, which one?

No. While you could craft the non-magical components, it's usually easier to buy them.



What are the general rules for imbuing an item with a permanent version of some spell (say, Nystul's Magic Aura or Haste?)

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#magicItemGoldPieceValues
Spell level x caster level (may be lower than crafter's caster level but must be at least the minimum required to cast the spell) x 2000 x duration factor (see table footnotes in link). However, these are only guidelines and all custom items should be approved by the DM. Items that give bonuses to unusual things are a common source of abuse (and should be denied IMO), whereas those that let you use a cool spell or other cool effect are an excellent application IMO.



Finally, can I further enchant something I already have? Let's say I want to turn my +4 Gloves of Dex into +6, or add the Evasion ability to another magic ring I already have. Are there instructions for figuring the cost in cash and exp for these somewhere, or do you just subtract what you already have from the price of the finished item and go from there?
Yes, you simply pay the difference to upgrade an item. But for the total cost of items with multiple abilities, see above link and if it's custom likewise get DM approval.

Yuki Akuma
2010-03-07, 02:06 PM
Or it means I was just looking at the SRD, and was confused, which was why I posted this thread. You know, either or.

The SRD contains the entire magic item chapter.

Talbot
2010-03-07, 02:18 PM
The SRD contains the entire magic item chapter.

Obviously I was just looking at the Feat, though. But sure, you're right; I'm sorry I didn't know exactly where everything I needed was located, and I'm sorry I asked for help. Please forgive my ignorance.

On a more relevant note, would 25,000 (twice the craft cost of a ring of evasion) be about right to make a magic item that granted Improved Evasion, or should it be higher? The links don't seem to have anything on items that imitate class features.

Dr Bwaa
2010-03-07, 02:21 PM
As some people have said, it costs 1/2 of the base price in $, and 1/25 of the base price in XP.

For more information than the SRD provides, the Magic Item Compendium is a fantastic (and better in a lot of ways) resource, especially for things like adding multiple properties to the same wondrous item. There's a whole section near the back (before all the wonderful tables of items sorted by various metrics).


I'm sorry I asked for help.

Not something to be sorry for. :smallsmile:

Starbuck_II
2010-03-07, 02:45 PM
Obviously I was just looking at the Feat, though. But sure, you're right; I'm sorry I didn't know exactly where everything I needed was located, and I'm sorry I asked for help. Please forgive my ignorance.

On a more relevant note, would 25,000 (twice the craft cost of a ring of evasion) be about right to make a magic item that granted Improved Evasion, or should it be higher? The links don't seem to have anything on items that imitate class features.

Unlisted stuff is eyeball stuff. Dependent on DMs whims sadly.

25, 000 is decent for a ring of Improved Evasion, Boots of Improved Evasion, or Gloves of Improved Evasion. I see Quickness (gloves) and Movement (boots) as closest body slot.
Remember Rings count as every slot (which is why they are as cheap as slotted items), but limited to 2.

ericgrau
2010-03-07, 02:47 PM
On a more relevant note, would 25,000 (twice the craft cost of a ring of evasion) be about right to make a magic item that granted Improved Evasion, or should it be higher? The links don't seem to have anything on items that imitate class features.
At a bare minimum it would be 4 times the cost of a normal ring (2 x 2), if following any kind of pattern. But as a high level class feature this is something the designers probably don't want you to have. Rarity aside, the ability to receive half damage on a failed save is superb for those that dumped their reflex save (i.e., none of the classes that get improved evasion as a class feature, and plenty of classes that don't). I could see epic characters paying almost any amount for such a ring. If you really want it you should talk to your DM about what would be a reasonable price: i.e., high enough that a high level or epic character would think twice before buying it, but not so high that they'd never buy it. But I'm thinking it's out of your range.

Now I just know I'm jinxing myself and someone's going to post a stupidly cheap and broken item from the Magic Item Compendium that grants improved evasion :smalltongue:.

Dr Bwaa
2010-03-07, 02:56 PM
I think there's a spell that grants improved evasion, though I have no idea where it is. If you can find it, it shouldn't be too hard to extrapolate from there as to what level spell would grant improved evasion, and thus what the price would be.

EDIT: Evidently, it did not exist at the time of the DMG's printing, since the Ring of Evasion in there uses Jump as the requisite spell. *shrug*

KillianHawkeye
2010-03-07, 05:39 PM
Right. The problem with that sentence, though, is the use of the word "this" which implies the most immediate subject, i.e., the new, modified 1/25th price. If it had said "that price" (referring to a previously referenced subject) or "the base price" (as other item creation feats do), it would have been much clearer. WOTC should hire better editors.

My point was that every time the word price was used, it was referring to the same amount. The item's market price.