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Morquard
2010-03-07, 01:51 PM
Hi

Does a druid thats been wild shaped into an animal gain its bonus feats, like "Track" when changed into a wolf?

ericgrau
2010-03-07, 01:52 PM
No, here's what you do get though:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#alternateForm

Dr Bwaa
2010-03-07, 03:01 PM
Short answer: no.

Long answer: look at the Bible: Wild Shape Rules! (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19528526/updated_Master_of_Many_Forms_Bible__official_wild_ shape_rules) (keep in mind this is made for the Master of Many Forms PrC, but the list of official wildshape rules in the beginning applies for everyone).

urbanpirate
2010-03-08, 01:16 AM
is there an item or armor special ability that allows your gear to remain functional while you are wildshaped?

ericgrau
2010-03-08, 01:25 AM
Wild armor lets you keep your armor and shield bonuses. It costs as much as +3 armor. Wilding clasps from the MIC allow other items to remain functional, but otherwise I don't see a way.

Anyhoo druids get a crazy, game breaking power boost if you let them keep their stuff while wildshaped without an additional cost. And explaining how you got custom stuff for the new form gets silly. Not to mention how you sell it and get new stuff for new forms. And really you're only trying to work around the rules.

Morquard
2010-03-08, 07:41 AM
Well you can always take your armor and jewelry off and don it again when wildshaped (or have an ally put it on you). I think magic stuff changes size to fit the wearer, so at least belts and cloaks etc should work that way, I'm not sure if magic armor actually changes size (and it most likely won't change so much that it can be worn by a non-humanoid animal)

I'm looking into what different shapeshifter abilities are there in D&D now, I'm sure I'm missing some stuff though.

Base Classes: Druids - Wild shape (just animals and elementals)
Sorc/Wiz/Bard - Alter self (just humanoids and low duration), Polymorph (even lower duration) or Shapechange later

Prestige Classes:
Master of Many forms - impoves Wild shape, allows pretty much any form. Not sure how good it is though, you gain more uses per day and more forms, but stop progressing in your druid spells, and even with Shifter's Speech you probably still need Natural Spell feat to perform the somatic components of a spell.
Shapeshifter - I'm not sure if that's still in 3.5 even, it says its from Oriental Adventures, and when I checked for that it said its a 3.0 book. Might be a 3.5 version of it too?
Master Transmogrifist - Kind of like MoMF for mages

Well thats what I found so far, missed anything?

ericgrau
2010-03-08, 10:16 AM
I've seen arguments for putting normal items on medium or maybe large animals, and resizing house rules, but magic items do not normally resize.

unre9istered
2010-03-08, 10:55 AM
I've seen arguments for putting normal items on medium or maybe large animals, and resizing house rules, but magic items do not normally resize.

From the DMG:

Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. As a rule, size should not keep overweight characters, characters of various genders, or characters of various kinds from using magic items

Weapons and armor are the only items that normally do not resize.

ericgrau
2010-03-08, 12:10 PM
That's garments, gender and weight not size category. Like I said you could make an argument for a medium or maybe large creature for certain items, but beyond that is iffy. Plus the intent there seems to be to not to keep people from using their treasure for fluff reasons. The intent behind the alternate form rules seems to be to prevent very real and heavy abuse that was going on before they updated the rules. Polymorph and wild shape were the #1 complaint by far back in the day, and not without reason. IIRC there are still rules allowing you to put on certain gear, but how much you can, how much is abusive and so forth it is annoyingly ambiguous.

unre9istered
2010-03-08, 12:45 PM
That's garments, gender and weight not size category.

From Draconomicon:

Because magic items that must be worn will fit users of any size, a dragon can use any magic item a humanoid character can.

This clarifies the line I quoted from the DMG.

ericgrau
2010-03-08, 01:04 PM
I just don't find it plausible for errata to solve what was perhaps perceived to be the biggest problem around is nothing more than a minor inconvenience.



Any gear worn or carried by the creature that canít be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures canít wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice versa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.

The main issue seems to be to avoid using armor. Other items may conceivably be kept. There was a thread a long time ago where someone posted a druid with obscene AC from barding when AC was not even his main goal. So I can see why.



Any gear worn or carried by the druid melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When the druid reverts to her true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on her body that they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items worn in the assumed form fall off and land at the druid's feet.

The druid class feature causes all items to meld, but leaves the possibility open to put on new items. This is the part that's ambiguous, and it's plausible that wondrous items could still be used. Dunno about rings.

Morquard
2010-03-08, 01:51 PM
Rings might be problematic with animal forms that have claws or paws.
But say an Ape shouldn't have a problem wearing rings.


The wearer of a suit of armor or a shield with this ability preserves his armor bonus (and any enhancement bonus) while in a wild shape. Armor and shields with this ability usually appear to be made covered in leaf patterns. While the wearer is in a wild shape, the armor cannot be seen.
That allows your armor to remain functional, but still melds into your shape and is invisible.
Now the question is what happens if a druid wears such armor and then puts on barbing in animal form? I can't imagine those two stack, that would just be insane. (at least as DM i wouldn't allow it)

Ryumaru
2010-03-08, 01:56 PM
That allows your armor to remain functional, but still melds into your shape and is invisible.
Now the question is what happens if a druid wears such armor and then puts on barbing in animal form? I can't imagine those two stack, that would just be insane. (at least as DM i wouldn't allow it)

Well, if the melded armour is still providing it's armour bonus (no idea if it changes), then barding wouldn't stack. Both would be providing an armour bonus to AC.

unre9istered
2010-03-08, 01:58 PM
Now the question is what happens if a druid wears such armor and then puts on barbing in animal form?

Easy, the two armor bonuses wouldn't stack as they are both of the same type. Only the highest applies. Same for the penalties.

EDIT: Should have expected that ninja...

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-08, 02:01 PM
Well you can always take your armor and jewelry off and don it again when wildshaped (or have an ally put it on you). I think magic stuff changes size to fit the wearer, so at least belts and cloaks etc should work that way, I'm not sure if magic armor actually changes size (and it most likely won't change so much that it can be worn by a non-humanoid animal)

I'm looking into what different shapeshifter abilities are there in D&D now, I'm sure I'm missing some stuff though.

Base Classes: Druids - Wild shape (just animals and elementals)
Sorc/Wiz/Bard - Alter self (just humanoids and low duration), Polymorph (even lower duration) or Shapechange later

Prestige Classes:
Master of Many forms - impoves Wild shape, allows pretty much any form. Not sure how good it is though, you gain more uses per day and more forms, but stop progressing in your druid spells, and even with Shifter's Speech you probably still need Natural Spell feat to perform the somatic components of a spell.
Shapeshifter - I'm not sure if that's still in 3.5 even, it says its from Oriental Adventures, and when I checked for that it said its a 3.0 book. Might be a 3.5 version of it too?
Master Transmogrifist - Kind of like MoMF for mages

Well thats what I found so far, missed anything?

Lion of Talisid - "Good Guy" Druid who favors big cats
Nature's Warrior - more martial wildshaper
Warshaper - Able to wildshape parts of his body

Eldariel
2010-03-08, 05:04 PM
Rings might be problematic with animal forms that have claws or paws.
But say an Ape shouldn't have a problem wearing rings.

Rings are supposed to be worn at different body parts for different creatures. Lords of Madness and Draconomicon make it obvious that every creature type has at least 2 ring slots (and those that miss out on other slots have more). For example, Beholders have them around eyestalks.

They can be worn around whole appendages for all it matters; don't have fingers? Use the arm. Don't have arms? Use the legs.

2xMachina
2010-03-09, 03:49 AM
No legs (like snake)? Slip on tail.

Or the 3rd leg...

Lord Vukodlak
2010-03-09, 05:06 AM
If we look at the DMG entry further it says that players shouldn't be penalized for picking halflings. Which says to me at least size category is included in the stated paragraph

The SRD lists the DMG entry differently.

Size And Magic Items
When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldnít be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items.

They probably removed the overweight to prevent confusion, after all if a ring can adjust from a halfling to a half-orc, there should be no question for fatso.