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View Full Version : ways to get more spells known as a wizard? 3.5



Mystic Muse
2010-03-08, 05:55 AM
Okay, I'm making a wizard character (with a rather unoptimized concept) and was wondering how to get more spells than 2 per level past first level. my favorite spells are ones involving fear, Ice, death and darkness effects. My DM has a LOT of books so if you can think of it he probably has the source. Spell compendium is allowed.

if you have any suggestions for feats other than energy substution ice and lord of the uttercold I'm up for hearing them. Just keep in mind this character will be neutral good.

PhoenixRivers
2010-03-08, 05:57 AM
Scrolls, paying scribing (PHb, magic overview section) has more.

Scrolls, you can scribe into a spellbook.

Mystic Muse
2010-03-08, 06:00 AM
I should also ask, is a blessed book worth buying?

PhoenixRivers
2010-03-08, 06:03 AM
When you can afford it, most certainly. It's far more efficient than a standard spellbook.

Mystic Muse
2010-03-08, 06:06 AM
So scrolls are the easiest way to add spells to a spellbook if you can afford them?

also, is there a price table for spell compendium scrolls?

PhoenixRivers
2010-03-08, 06:08 AM
So scrolls are the easiest way to add spells to a spellbook if you can afford them?

Certainly the most assured. If you can find friendly spellcasters, there's always scribing from spellbook to spellbook, though that will also cost gold (not as much though).

Runestar
2010-03-08, 06:09 AM
There is collegiate wizard from complete arcane, which doubles the spells you get each lv.

Elven racial wizard sub adds 1 spell know per lv, but the problem is that you need to be an elf and cannot specialize.

faceroll
2010-03-08, 06:09 AM
I haven't double checked to see if this works, but I think you can scribe spells for virtually free with eberron dragonshards and a way to remove the cost of casting arcane mark when inscribing spells in your dragonshard. Maybe turn the spell into an SLA with innate spell or rune caster?

Mystic Muse
2010-03-08, 06:14 AM
I can't seem to find collegiate wizard. got a page number?

Malificus
2010-03-08, 06:16 AM
It's in a sidebar on page 181.

Mystic Muse
2010-03-08, 06:18 AM
okay. thanks for informing me of collegiate wizard.:smallsmile:

Ashiel
2010-03-08, 06:36 AM
It's also worth noting that the spell secret page can let you bypass page limitations in your spell-books. You can essentially scribe entire sets of spells on a single page, or an entire spell on a single sheet of paper (it usually takes 1 page per spell level); and the ability to hold spells in secret pages is called out in the secrete page spell description for any nay-sayers.

Just don't get your spell-book dispelled. :smallannoyed:

It's thematically awesome, and it's also a cool way of hiding spells in games where certain things are frowned upon. For example; you could hide the entirety of your animate dead spell within the page you keep your prestidigitation or disrupt undead spell on. :smallbiggrin:

HunterOfJello
2010-03-08, 06:37 AM
Collegiate Wizard or Elven Generalist are your best bet

ALSO, Spontaneous Divination from Complete Champion will allow you access to every Divination spell on the Sorc/Wiz list without having to put any of them into your spellbook. You give up your Wizard Bonus feats for it, but most people don't take Wizard all the way to level 10 anyway since they've started progressing in a Prestige Class. That puts you at 1 lost feat and a ton of added spell possibilities.

Yora
2010-03-08, 06:41 AM
also, is there a price table for spell compendium scrolls?

Prices are calculated by multiplying caster level with spell level and a constant factor. If there are no expensive material components, an XP component, or a focus, the price is always the same.
Scrolls (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/magicItemsSSW.html#scrolls)

Runestar
2010-03-08, 06:59 AM
You give up your Wizard Bonus feats for it, but most people don't take Wizard all the way to level 10 anyway since they've started progressing in a Prestige Class.

You only give up one of your bonus feats, not all of them.

Even wotc isn't bone-headed enough to introduce a limitation which can effectively be ignored by multiclassing out of wizard at 5th lv. If a feature scales with lv, it will typically entail additional sacrifices at subsequent breakpoints. :smallbiggrin:

Optimystik
2010-03-08, 07:02 AM
You only give up one of your bonus feats, not all of them.

Even wotc isn't bone-headed enough to introduce a limitation which can effectively be ignored by multiclassing out of wizard at 5th lv. If a feature scales with lv, it will typically entail additional sacrifices at subsequent breakpoints. :smallbiggrin:

Not always. All three of the Erudite variants trade one measly bonus feat for game-breaking levels of power.

magic9mushroom
2010-03-08, 07:32 AM
Not always. All three of the Erudite variants trade one measly bonus feat for game-breaking levels of power.

They don't gain additional benefits as you go up in levels, though. The single benefit is just that hax.

Optimystik
2010-03-08, 07:40 AM
They don't gain additional benefits as you go up in levels, though. The single benefit is just that hax.

He didnt say "additional benefits," he said "scaling benefits" - and the three variants definitely do scale in effectiveness with level.

Even better, you are no worse off than a psion for doing so - they will typically spend a feat on a psicrystal before level 5, you still get yours, so you break even with them feat-wise and still get all the cheese goodness.

AslanCross
2010-03-08, 07:51 AM
Collegiate Wizard, and the Elf Wizard substitution level from Races of the Wild. (You can't specialize, though.)

Also, the Geometer (complete arcane) PrC allows you to scribe each spell as a diagram that only takes up one page each on your spellbook.

Tyndmyr
2010-03-08, 08:00 AM
Domain Wizard. Basically, you get a domain in addition to being a generalist wizard. You trade your ability to specialize, which you weren't using as a generalist anyway.

Nother spell known, and another spell slot per level(which must be from that domain). Fringe bennie, some domains add spells not normally on the wizard list to your spells known.

Optimystik
2010-03-08, 08:12 AM
Also, the Geometer (complete arcane) PrC allows you to scribe each spell as a diagram that only takes up one page each on your spellbook.

Totally forgot that, and it's one of my favorite wizard PrCs :smallredface:

I'd love to see a houseruled/homebrew version for Archivists - one that takes into account the fact that they rarely need material components.

Mystic Muse
2010-03-08, 02:21 PM
Domain Wizard. Basically, you get a domain in addition to being a generalist wizard. You trade your ability to specialize, which you weren't using as a generalist anyway.

Nother spell known, and another spell slot per level(which must be from that domain). Fringe bennie, some domains add spells not normally on the wizard list to your spells known.

What book is this in?

and no, I wasn't specializing anyway.

Not going to use the elf substitution level because I have a specific character concept in mind and that concept does not involve elves.

2xMachina
2010-03-08, 02:23 PM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizardVariantDomainWiz ard

^ SRD has it. Probably UA if you want the book (most variants come from there)

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-08, 02:29 PM
I have a suggestion:

Race: Human, Grey Elf, or Tinker Gnome (My pick: Tinker Gnome)
Class: Domain Spontaneous Wizard (with the Domain Power ability from CC) 5/Sand Shaper 1/Rainbow Servant 10/Archmage 4
Feats: Arcane Discipline (X), Mother Cyst, Obtain Familiar, Spell Focus (Every School), Metamagic Staples

Here's What you basically get:

5 Domains with powers (2 of your choice, Good, Sand, and Sun)
Every Good Dread Necromancer Spells
Spontaneous Casting w/out a spellbook (though you keep your normal amount of spells in exchange for your familiar, which you regain)
+2 CL to any spell

Go forth and destroy, my brother

Mystic Muse
2010-03-08, 02:31 PM
I have a suggestion:

Race: Human, Grey Elf, or Tinker Gnome (My pick: Tinker Gnome)
Class: Domain Spontaneous Wizard (with the Domain Power ability from CC) 5/Sand Shaper 1/Rainbow Servant 10/Archmage 4
Feats: Arcane Discipline (X), Mother Cyst, Obtain Familiar, Spell Focus (Every School), Metamagic Staples

Here's What you basically get:

5 Domains with powers (2 of your choice, Good, Sand, and Sun)
Every Good Dread Necromancer Spells
Spontaneous Casting w/out a spellbook (though you keep your normal amount of spells in exchange for your familiar, which you regain)
+2 CL to any spell

Go forth and destroy, my brother

Doesn't fit my character concept at all.:smalltongue:

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-08, 02:32 PM
Doesn't fit my character concept at all.:smalltongue:

but you literally can open Spell Compendium and point to any spell at random and cast it...

lightningcat
2010-03-08, 02:32 PM
You can always copy spells out of other people's spellbooks. So just go mage hunting and you're golden, unless you hunt down a sorcerer.

Mystic Muse
2010-03-08, 02:35 PM
but you literally can open Spell Compendium and point to any spell at random and cast it...

which isn't my character concept.:smalltongue:

so, for the domain wizard, do I get to choose any domain or just the ones underneath the entry in the SRD?

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-08, 02:39 PM
which isn't my character concept.:smalltongue:

so, for the domain wizard, do I get to choose any domain or just the ones underneath the entry in the SRD?

any domain. Literally any. And with giving up one feat, you gain the domain's power (modded for wizard of course) and with Arcane Discipline, you gain another. And with Sandshaper 1, you gain the Thirst (sorry, I mistyped it on the build) domain. And with 10 levels of Rainbow Servant, you gain Good and Sun as domains. All of those with powers included. Then, Mother Cyst gives you Necromancy spells.

Mystic Muse
2010-03-08, 02:43 PM
Okay, then what are some good domain choices? I kind of like illusion and transmutation.

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-08, 02:45 PM
Okay, then what are some good domain choices? I kind of like illusion and transmutation.

I highly suggest Healing (to make you tanky and a secondary healer) and Patience (simply for a free Extend Spell feat ;3).

I say focus on domains that give you nonwizard/sorcerer spells

Wings of Peace
2010-03-08, 02:47 PM
Tainted Scholar and massive amounts of taint (Groundbreaking levels of broken though).

AmberVael
2010-03-08, 02:48 PM
Uh, no. A Domain Wizard (as in the variant presented in Unearthed Arcana) cannot take cleric domains. Divine domains and the Domain Wizard variant have no connection to one another.

I quote:


At 1st level, a domain wizard selects an arcane domain from those listed below. (At the game master's discretion, the player might create an alternatively themed domain instead.) Once selected, the domain may never be changed.

TaintedLight
2010-03-08, 02:49 PM
but you literally can open Spell Compendium and point to any spell at random and cast it...

This seems out there. Can you explain how that works exactly? Also, having a hard time finding the spontaneous domain wizard mentioned in that concept.

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-08, 02:49 PM
Tainted Scholar and massive amounts of taint (Groundbreaking levels of broken though).

EVIL!!!! *throws army of mice to eat the cheese before it begins*

Tianted Scholar is a Royal Can-'o-Wyrms (now available in both Blueberry and Grape flavor ;3) that we REALLY don't need opened here

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-08, 02:52 PM
This seems out there. Can you explain how that works exactly? Also, having a hard time finding the spontaneous domain wizard mentioned in that concept.

Domain wizard from UA
and Spontaneous is one my DM came up with where you give up your familiar for Spontaneous Casting with the wizard's staggering Spells/day

and I'll gladly explain:

Because you have 5 domains (One from Domain Wizard, one from Arcane Discipline, One from Sand Shaper, and two from Rainbow Servant), 19th level wizard casting, and a handful of nasty necromancy spells, you have almost any spell in the book (note: one could scrap Mother Cyst for a second Arcane Discipline to gain another domain)

deuxhero
2010-03-08, 02:55 PM
okay. thanks for informing me of collegiate wizard.:smallsmile:

It's also in a preview, I'll go find it.

edit: here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041114a)

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-08, 02:55 PM
Uh, no. A Domain Wizard (as in the variant presented in Unearthed Arcana) cannot take cleric domains. Divine domains and the Domain Wizard variant have no connection to one another.

I quote:

and I quote:



(At the game master's discretion, the player might create an alternatively themed domain instead.)


So you could suggest any existing domain from that list, or the cleric's list. And since its technically a domain (let's say you worship Deity X), the Domain Power Variant lets you gain the Domain power, whilst the chosen Domain gives you the spells. Win/Win in my book

TaintedLight
2010-03-08, 02:59 PM
Domain wizard from UA
and Spontaneous is one my DM came up with where you give up your familiar for Spontaneous Casting with the wizard's staggering Spells/day

and I'll gladly explain:

Because you have 5 domains (One from Domain Wizard, one from Arcane Discipline, One from Sand Shaper, and two from Rainbow Servant), 19th level wizard casting, and a handful of nasty necromancy spells, you have almost any spell in the book (note: one could scrap Mother Cyst for a second Arcane Discipline to gain another domain)

That sounds like utter insanity. How could it possibly be a balanced trade to get spontaneous casting from a huge list of spells known at the expense of a familiar?

AmberVael
2010-03-08, 03:01 PM
Relying on Rule 0 and Homebrew isn't really a good idea, however. :smallannoyed:

By the rules, IE, RAW, no- you can only choose the domains listed.

Yes, you can ask for others, but to say that you can get other domains, or that yes, you can certainly choose divine domains, is extremely misleading.

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-08, 03:02 PM
That sounds like utter insanity. How could it possibly be a balanced trade to get spontaneous casting from a huge list of spells known at the expense of a familiar?

because the familiar's bonuses, depending on the player. What you did is you basically gave up your familiar and spellbook, making you a spontaneous caster. However, you can't learn spells from another wizard's spellbook.

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-08, 03:04 PM
Relying on Rule 0 and Homebrew isn't really a good idea, however. :smallannoyed:

By the rules, IE, RAW, no- you can only choose the domains listed.

Yes, you can ask for others, but to say that you can get other domains, or that yes, you can certainly choose divine domains, is extremely misleading.

I'm relying on Rule 0. My DM told me "so long as the Domian's in a book, you can choose it"

plus, some of those are decent for the thematics of the prcs. I mean if you pick Fire, you can choose the Fire Domain Power and voila, DM isn't mad and you stay well within the rules.

TaintedLight
2010-03-08, 03:04 PM
because the familiar's bonuses, depending on the player. What you did is you basically gave up your familiar and spellbook, making you a spontaneous caster. However, you can't learn spells from another wizard's spellbook.

Still sounds quite sketchy to me, but if your DM says it's fine for your game, I guess that's that :smalleek:. I know MY DM would flip pretty hard if I proposed that to him.

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-08, 03:05 PM
Still sounds quite sketchy to me, but if your DM says it's fine for your game, I guess that's that :smalleek:. I know MY DM would flip pretty hard if I proposed that to him.

then drop the spontaneous and Obtain Familiar. Pick up an extra Arcane Discipline and you have another domain to choose from.

Mystic Muse
2010-03-08, 03:06 PM
using rule 0 isn't much of a suggestion.:smallannoyed:

AmberVael
2010-03-08, 03:07 PM
I'm relying on Rule 0. My DM told me "so long as the Domian's in a book, you can choose it"

plus, some of those are decent for the thematics of the prcs. I mean if you pick Fire, you can choose the Fire Domain Power and voila, DM isn't mad and you stay well within the rules.

That's what I'm saying. Just because your DM has okayed it doesn't mean another DM will. It is false to state that you can do it just because one DM in one game has okayed it.

I'm not arguing against your capability to do it in your game- I'm arguing against you telling another person who in all likelihood does not have the same DM that it is indeed okay and by the rules to take a domain that their DM may not allow.

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-08, 03:09 PM
That's what I'm saying. Just because your DM has okayed it doesn't mean another DM will. It is false to state that you can do it just because one DM in one game has okayed it.

I'm not arguing against your capability to do it in your game- I'm arguing against you telling another person who in all likelihood does not have the same DM that it is indeed okay and by the rules to take a domain that their DM may not allow.

I'm not. I'm Not. I'm simply saying that one must ask thy DM before the session whether or not this works in their world. (Note: If you want this, buy your DM a box of Doughnuts and "convince" them to let it fly)

AmberVael
2010-03-08, 03:10 PM
any domain. Literally any.

Yes. You did.

Mystic Muse
2010-03-08, 03:10 PM
I'm not. I'm Not. I'm simply saying that one must ask thy DM before the session whether or not this works in their world. (Note: If you want this, buy your DM a box of Doughnuts and "convince" them to let it fly)

hey good idea! I'm going to bring a box of donuts to my next D&D game.:smallsmile:

(no this is not to bribe my DM. This is to be nice)

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-08, 03:13 PM
hey good idea! I'm going to bring a box of donuts to my next D&D game.:smallsmile:

(no this is not to bribe my DM. This is to be nice)

It's not bribing. It's a suggestion

jiriku
2010-03-08, 03:14 PM
hey good idea! I'm going to bring a box of donuts to my next D&D game.:smallsmile:

(no this is not to bribe my DM. This is to be nice)

Kyuubi you now have a standing invite to join my gaming group whenever you please.

Mystic Muse
2010-03-08, 03:18 PM
Kyuubi you now have a standing invite to join my gaming group whenever you please.

Live in Indiana near Fort Wayne? otherwise it's not going to matter.

Tyndmyr
2010-03-08, 03:32 PM
Uh, no. A Domain Wizard (as in the variant presented in Unearthed Arcana) cannot take cleric domains. Divine domains and the Domain Wizard variant have no connection to one another.

I quote:

Here's the fun part.

You take one of those listed below(I like storm, due to divine spells on it, which I can cast as arcane.)

You then take Bonus Domain. Yes, the requirements are annoying(epic feat, 9th level divine spells, 21+ wis), but if you're collecting spells, you're probably something like domain wizard/ur priest/MT anyhow. Thing is, the feat itself makes no divine caveat. You simply have access to the domain spells AND it's ability as normal. Since you normally cast domain spells via domain wizard, you gain access to them there.

I suggest dragonwrought kobold to cure the epic feat access. It's also handy for dealing with the wisdom issue. You only need nine levels of UP to get 9th level spells, so this is theoretically doable at level...10 with blatant level drain cheese, 15 otherwise.

Mystic Muse
2010-03-08, 03:42 PM
Not.........My.......character......concept......

AmberVael
2010-03-08, 03:55 PM
Well lets see, to actually provide information for you...

If you went into Illusionist instead of being a general or domain wizard, you could get Illusion Mastery. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#illusionMastery) Very nice little variant there. Two extra illusion spells per level, and spell mastery for all illusion spells. You mention Darkness and fear are some of the things you like, and that's definitely something an Illusionist can deliver.

Furthermore, if you did that, you could then go into the Prestige Class, Master Specialist. It grants a few extra spells known (one at 2nd level, 5th, and 8th). There are probably better alternatives to that though.

Mystic Muse
2010-03-08, 04:03 PM
hmm. the illusionist sounds good. Just need to think of which schools to ban. Definitely enchantment but not sure what else.

AmberVael
2010-03-08, 04:14 PM
Evocation is a standard suggestion- if you don't plan on heavily blasting, you can usually get by without it fairly easily (conjuration will cover most minor blasting needs).

I might suggest necromancy, but that seems too in line with your preferred theme (death, ice, fear, darkness? I mean... gotta have necromancy).

Conjuration is really powerful, so giving it up would likely be a bad idea. It just has like... everything.

Transmutation has some really nice stuff- no matter what else you want to do, you usually at least want Fly, so dropping Transmutation... eeeeehhh.... not usually a good idea.

Abjuration provides a lot of defenses and dispel magic. You might be able to handle things without, but you'll need to be cautious.

And you can't give up divination. Bummer.

I recommend Evocation. After that, Abjuration or Transmutation (but both of these are way more valuable).

Mystic Muse
2010-03-08, 04:21 PM
I'll probably do Evocation. I don't want to (I want a wall of level draining uttercold:smallfrown:) but it's the only thing I can think of that works. I need Abjuration for Banishment.

SartheKobold
2010-03-08, 04:34 PM
Live in Indiana near Fort Wayne? otherwise it's not going to matter.

Err... I do? Near New Haven...
PM me, please. I totally need a group...

On topic, and majorly violating RAI...


Spells Copied from Anotherís Spellbook or a Scroll
A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizardís spellbook. No matter what the spellís source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Next, she must spend a day studying the spell. At the end of the day, she must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spellís level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from her specialty school. She cannot, however, learn any spells from her prohibited schools. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into her spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, below). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.

It says nothing about them needing to be from the Sorc/Wiz Spell List, simply that they need to be on a magic scrolls, and they can't be prohibited. It's a chance, but you can also learn Divine Spells. I wouldn't allow it as a DM, but does seem like an exploitable oversight...
Unless I'm mistaken, and I very well may be...

lsfreak
2010-03-08, 04:41 PM
I'll probably do Evocation. I don't want to (I want a wall of level draining uttercold:smallfrown:) but it's the only thing I can think of that works. I need Abjuration for Banishment.

Wall of Magma instead of Wall of Fire. From Sandstorm. It's a level higher, but it's better in pretty much every other respect.

Banning Enchant/Trans might work. Trans has a lot of buff spells, but if you're really focused on debuffing first that might not matter as much. Illusion and Necromancy have some pretty potent debuffs, as does Conjuration.

Mystic Muse
2010-03-09, 02:02 AM
and there goes Evocation. thanks for the info:smallsmile:

Now, I have one other question. is there any way to get more spells per day? Probably won't need them. just curious.

2xMachina
2010-03-09, 03:42 AM
I'll probably do Evocation. I don't want to (I want a wall of level draining uttercold:smallfrown:) but it's the only thing I can think of that works. I need Abjuration for Banishment.

Also, Shadow Evocation.

Also, for more spells per day, Focused Specialist. Need to drop 1 more school though.

taltamir
2010-03-09, 06:42 AM
i don't know why people insist on saying scrolls are a good way to acquire spells, they are the absolute WORST way to acquire new spells.

The best way is of course collegiate.

The second best way is to get access to someone's spellbook for free... this is either a quest reward, the result of joining a guild, looting it off a corpse of an enemy wizard, or stealing it from a still living enemy wizard or just trading spell X for spell Y (you let me copy from your book, I will let you copy from mine). Cost? 100gp per spell level. nothing with blessed book. If the DM is nazi about it then have multiple PCs who are wizards, each gets 4 different spells on level up and they copy from each other.

the third best way is to pay a wizard for the service of copying from his spellbook. Cost is 50gp per spell level for service +100 GP per spell level to scribe (waived by blessed book)

the fourth and absolutely worst way is to use scrolls, a consumable resource worth money and XP.
cost is (for a minimum CL scroll with no expensive material component or XP component) 25*SL*(SL*2-1) + 100 SL.
Where SL = Spell level.
The +100 is waived if you have blessed book.
SL*2-1 = Caster level.

So scribing a 9th level spell costs the following with each method:
1. free
2. 900gp, or free with blessed book.
3. 1350gp, or 450gp with blessed book.
4. 4725gp, or 3825gp with blessed book.

As you can clearly see, scrolls absolutely suck for learning new spells.
With blessed book you can actually make money. Every level you learn new spells, put them in a mundane spellbook. Then COPY Those into your blessed book (for free), then sell your mundane spellbook for 50gp per page. (of course, you can just keep on buying blessed books, filling them up, and selling them for massive profit).

EX. your collegiate wizard became level 10, he gains 4 spells of SL5 for free... he puts them in a blank new book which costs 15gp. He copies those spells into his blessed book for free... he then sells the mundane book for 5x4x50 = 1000gp. making a neat 985gp profit.

Tyndmyr
2010-03-09, 01:06 PM
Feh, once you've got a blessed book, you then use secret page. Space problem solved.

That still doesn't guarantee access to the original spells, though, which I suspect is the point of this.

Knowstones grant additional spells known, but they are really intended for spont classes, and likely wouldn't help wizards without shenanigans that are...generally not worth it. It's unlikely that knowstones would be significantly more common than scrolls.