[3.5 Base Class] Intuimancer (Wis based Arcane Casting?! Madness!)

[Rauthiss]

WHY?
With the Archivist, you can get divine casting from all 3 mental attributes, and yet, there is no wisdom based arcane caster! I figured I might as well try to even the playing field.


Right now, the class is largely a work in progress. I would appreciate any and all input, especially for class ability ideas for the PLACEHOLDER levels and the placement of existing class abilities. Fluff will come later. I was trying to balance around tier 3, but I have an odd feeling I failed miserably.


Intuimancer
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th| 9th

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Spellcasting, School study|6|4

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Bonus Feat|6|5|

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Mimic Potion|6|6|3|

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Practiced Caster (0 level)|6|6|4|

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Leech Spell Completion|6|6|5|3

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Bonus Feat|6|6|6|4

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Mimic Spell Completion|6|6|6|5|3

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+6|Practiced Caster (1st level) |6|6|6|6|4

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+6|Mimic Spell Trigger|6|6|6|6|5|3

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Leech Spell Trigger|6|6|6|6|6|4

11th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Bonus Feat|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|

12th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8|Practiced Caster (2nd Level)|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|

13th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8|Skilled Caster|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

14th|
+7/+2|
+4|
+4|
+9|Echo Caster|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

15th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+9|PLACEHOLDER|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

16th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10|Practiced Caster (3rd Level), Bonus Feat|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

17th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10|Mimic Caster|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

18th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|PLACEHOLDER|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

19th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|PLACEHOLDER|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5

20th|
+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12|Practiced Caster (4th Level), Intuitive Casting|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6 [/table]

Hit Die: d4
Skill Points: 2+Int mod, x4 at first level.
Skills: Concentration (CON), Craft (INT), Decipher Script (INT), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (INT), Spellcraft (INT), Use Magic Device (CHA)

Spells Known
{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2nd|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3rd|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4th|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
5th|4|2|1|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
6th|4|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
7th|4|3|2|1|1|-|-|-|-|-
8th|5|3|2|2|1|-|-|-|-|-
9th|5|4|3|2|1|1|-|-|-|-
10th|5|4|3|2|2|1|-|-|-|-
11th|5|4|3|3|2|1|1|-|-|-
12th|5|4|4|3|2|2|1|-|-|-
13th|5|4|4|3|3|2|1|1|-|-
14th|5|4|4|4|3|2|2|1|-|-
15th|5|4|4|4|3|3|2|1|1|-
16th|5|4|4|4|3|3|2|2|1|-
17th|5|4|4|4|3|3|2|2|1|1
18th|5|4|4|4|3|3|2|2|2|1
19th|5|4|4|4|3|3|2|2|2|1
20th|5|4|4|4|3|3|2|2|2|2[/table]

Spellcasting: An Intuimancer casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. An Intuimancer regains spell slots after 8 hours of rest. She casts spells as a sorcerer, following the spells known table above.

To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the Intuimancer must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an Intuimancer’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the Intuimancer's wisdom modifier. An Intuimancer gains bonus spells per day based on her Wisdom score.

School Study: An Intuimancer, as a result of his need to practice a spell over and over, can only add spells from 3 chosen schools, from Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, or Transmutation to his spells known list when he gains levels. These schools are chosen at first level, and cannot be changed. She may also add universal spells.

Bonus Feat: At 2nd, 6th, 11th, and 16th level, the Intuimancer may gain a bonus feat. They may choose from Skill Focus (Spellcraft), any metamagic feat, any item creation feat, Spell Penetration, Spell Mastery, and Spell Focus.

Mimic Potion: Whenever an Intuimancer drinks a potion of an arcane spell, she may make a Spellcraft check with DC 10 + (2*Spell Level). If she succeeds, she adds the spell the potion contained to her spells known list until she regains her spell slots. The potion is still consumed, and it has all of its normal effects.

Practiced Caster: An Intuimancer may cast spells of the indicated level as a supernatural ability. However, all costs of the spell must still be paid, including expensive material components and XP costs. She still retains the ability to cast them as normal spells.

Leech Spell Completion: Instead of casting the spell within an arcane spell completion item, an Intuimancer may make a Use magic Device check with DC 20 + Spell Level. If she succeeds, she may instead use the item to regain a spell slot of the level of the spell stored in the item. By doing so, the spell within the item is used up, and cannot be used for another purpose.

Mimic Spell Completion: Instead of casting the spell within an arcane spell completion item, an Intuimancer may make a Spellcraft check with DC 20 + (2*spell level). If she succeeds, she adds the spell contained in the item to her spells known list until she regains her spell slots. By doing so, the spell within the item is used up, and cannot be used for another purpose.

Mimic Spell Trigger: Instead of casting a spell within an arcane spell trigger item, an Intuimancer may make a Spellcraft check with DC 20 + (2*spell level). If she succeeds, she adds the spell contained in the item to her spells known list until she regains her spell slots. By doing so, she uses up one charge of the item and renders it completely inert until she regains her spell slots.

Leech Spell Trigger: Instead of casting the spell within an arcane spell completion item, an Intuimancer may make a Use magic Device check with DC 20 + Spell Level. If she succeeds, she may instead expend a number of charges up to her (class level/2) - 3. If she does, she may regain a spell slot of a level equal to the number of charges expended.

Skilled Caster: An Intuimancer can cast spells affected by metamagic without increasing the casting time.

Echo Caster: Whenever an Intuimancer sees an arcane spellcaster cast a spell, she may make a Spellcraft check with DC 10 + the other caster's caster level. If she succeeds, she may cast the spell as the other person did as if they had used the eschew materials spell. However, the Intuimancer uses her ability score and caster level for DCs and variable effects. Using this ability uses up a spell slot of the level of the spell echoed.

Mimic Caster: Whenever an Intuimancer successfully identifies an arcane spell through the use of a spellcraft check, she may add the spell to her spells known list for one minute.

Intuitive Casting: A number of times per day equal to her Wisdom modifier, an Intuimancer may use a standard action to study another arcane spellcaster. If she does, she adds all spells prepared (In the case of a prepared caster) or all spells known (for a spontaneous caster) by that creature to her spell list until she regains her spell slots.

So? Rip me apart! :3

[finalepic]

This is my first time looking at a class this in-depth, or critiquing at all, really, so take that with a grain of salt.




School Study: An Intuimancer, as a result of his need to practice a spell over and over, can only add spells from 3 schools to his spells known list, chosen at 1st level. She may also add universal spells.
Okay. This may save the class from being horribly totally over your intended tier. I'm not sure.


Bonus Feat: At 2nd, 6th, 11th, and 16th level, the Intuimancer may gain a bonus feat. They may choose from Skill Focus (Spellcraft), any metamagic feat, any item creation feat, Spell Penetration, Spell Mastery, and Spell Focus.
Bonus feats. I'm not sure there's much to comment on here.


Mimic Potion: Whenever an Intuimancer drinks a potion, she may make a Spellcraft check with DC 10 + (2*Spell Level). If she succeeds, she adds the spell the potion contained to her spells known list until she regains her spell slots. This class ability overrides School Study.
Does the Intuimancer still get the benefits of the potion? Does the potion have to be of an arcane spell?


Practiced Caster: An Intuimancer may cast spells of the indicated level as a supernatural ability. She still retains the ability to cast them as normal spells.
Out of curiosity, why would you want to cast them as a normal spell?


Leech Spell Completion: Instead of casting the spell within a spell completion item, an Intuimancer may make a Use magic Device check with DC 20 + Spell Level. If she succeeds, she may instead use the item to regain a spell slot of the level of the spell stored in the item.
I have no idea what this does to balance. I like it, but I honestly have no idea.


Mimic Spell Completion: Instead of casting the spell within a spell completion item, an Intuimancer may make a Spellcraft check with DC 20 + (2*spell level). If she succeeds, she adds the spell contained in the item to her spells known list until she regains her spell slots. This class ability overrides school study.
Same questions arise as with Mimic Potion.


Mimic Spell Trigger: Instead of casting a spell within a spell trigger item, an Intuimancer may make a Spellcraft check with DC 20 + (2*spell level). If she succeeds, she adds the spell contained in the item to her spells known list until she regains her spell slots. This class ability overrides school study.
And again


Leech Spell Trigger: Instead of casting the spell within a spell completion item, an Intuimancer may make a Use magic Device check with DC 20 + Spell Level. If she succeeds, she may instead expend a number of charges up to her class level/2 - 3. If she does, she may regain a spell slot of a level equal to the number of charges expended.
Same as with Leech Spell Completion


Skilled Caster: An Intuimancer can cast spells affected by metamagic without increasing the casting time.
This I like. A lot.


Echo Caster: Whenever an Intuimancer sees a spellcaster cast a spell, she may make a Spellcraft check with DC 10 + the other caster's caster level. If she succeeds, she may cast the spell as the other person did as if they had used the eschew materials spell. However, the Intuimancer uses her ability score and caster level for DCs and variable effects.
Does this take a spell slot? If not, it could end very, very badly. Also, is it limited to Arcane spells?


Mimic Caster: Whenever an Intuimancer successfully identifies a spell through the use of a spellcraft check, she may add the spell to her spells known list for one minute. This overrides School Study.
[insert repitition here]


Intuitive Casting: A number of times per day equal to her Wisdom modifier, an Intuimancer may cast any spell on the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, as if it was on her spells known list.
This takes a spell slot, right?


So? Rip me apart! :3
I printed out a copy and ripped it out...since you asked me to. :smallamused:

Seriously, though, I like the concepts behind this class, but it seems a bit powerful for the tier you're aiming for. I see it as a sorcerer with class features.

[Rauthiss]

Does the Intuimancer still get the benefits of the potion? Does the potion have to be of an arcane spell?
Yes, they get the benefits of the potion. Yes, the potion must be arcane. Lemme fix that...

Out of curiosity, why would you want to cast them as a normal spell?
Metamagic feats can't be applied to supernatural abilities.


I have no idea what this does to balance. I like it, but I honestly have no idea.
Basically, it lets a scroll be different spells. I agree on not knowing the balance.


Same questions arise as with Mimic Potion.
It is used up, but the spell within is not cast. Yes, it must be arcane.

And again
See above.

Same as with Leech Spell Completion
See above.

This I like. A lot.
:D

Does this take a spell slot? If not, it could end very, very badly. Also, is it limited to Arcane spells?
It does take up a spell slot, and it is limited. If it is over your maximum, it uses two of your highest level spell slots.


[insert repitition here]
Insert repetitive answer here

This takes a spell slot, right?
Yes.

Seriously, though, I like the concepts behind this class, but it seems a bit powerful for the tier you're aiming for. I see it as a sorcerer with class features.Tencharacters.

[DragoonWraith]

The language "overrides School Study" is confusing and does not mean what I think you intended it to mean. You should say that you may even cast spells from schools other than your chosen three, or something. Saying you override that feature seems to imply that once you get one of the features with that line, you're no longer limited by School Study in what spells you choose from then on.

Also, Intuimancer is... a tough name to say. Just saying.

As far as a Wis-based Arcane caster, I quite like it, for exactly the reasons you stated. In fact, so much so that I'd actually already made one, though the Arcanist is incomplete. Very different features though; I like yours. It's a very interesting direction to take things in.

[Zexion]

Why can the Intuimancer cast 6 level 9 spells per day at Lvl 20? That seems really really unbalanced.

[Rauthiss]

@Dragoon:
Hmm... That's true. Perhaps I could simply reword School Study to something along the lines of "An Intuimancer, as a result of his need to practice a spell over and over, can only add spells from 3 schools, chosen at 1st level, to his spells known list when he gains levels. She may also add universal spells.

I pronounce it "into - ih - mancer", and have no problems with it. :p

why thank you!

@Zexion:
Given a spells known list that small, I thought it might be balanced. Alas, I don't play many spellcasters at that level, so I wouldn't know very well.

[JoshuaZ]

6 is very high. Sorcerers get 6 but that's making up for their very tiny set of spells known. Since this class only gets 2 9th level spells and a sorcerer gets three that's probably ok.

[Zexion]

A 20th level sorcerer knows only 3 9th level spells, and can cast only 6 in a... never mind. I didn't know sorcerers were THAT unbalanced... whoa! That's crazy!
EDIT: JoshuaZ, yeah... oops.

[DragoonWraith]

Hmm... That's true. Perhaps I could simply reword School Study to something along the lines of "An Intuimancer, as a result of his need to practice a spell over and over, can only add spells from 3 schools, chosen at 1st level, to his spells known list when he gains levels. She may also add universal spells.
Ack, sorry! Miscommunication there - School Study is worded fine. It's the other features that say they "override" School Study that are problematic. The Mimic ones.


I pronounce it "into - ih - mancer", and have no problems with it. :p
It's not hard to pronounce, it just... doesn't roll off the tongue well. It's five syllables long, that's a pretty intense word, really.

Also, on some level, it's a right bastardization of a word - "intui-" comes from Latin, while "-mancy" comes from Greek. I doubt many would know that, but it does actually cause some of the problem with the word - people may not know why, but mixing roots like that can lead to words sounding 'off' to people.


why thank you!
You're very welcome!

[Rauthiss]

Ack, sorry! Miscommunication there - School Study is worded fine. It's the other features that say they "override" School Study that are problematic. The Mimic ones.
Yes, but by rewording School Study, I can remove the need to change the rest. Simple answer. :3


It's not hard to pronounce, it just... doesn't roll off the tongue well. It's five syllables long, that's a pretty intense word, really.

Also, on some level, it's a right bastardization of a word - "intui-" comes from Latin, while "-mancy" comes from Greek. I doubt many would know that, but it does actually cause some of the problem with the word - people may not know why, but mixing roots like that can lead to words sounding 'off' to people.
My other Idea was Serendipimancer, but I thought intuimancer was better. :p Not trying to be snarky, but do you have any other ideas? I agree that Intuimancer is... weird.


You're very welcome!
Tencharacters

[DaTedinator]

A few alternate name ideas: Intuitive, Intuiter, Intuitor/Intuitrix.

Frankly, I only like the first one, but hey, no bad ideas in brainstorming, right?

[Milskidasith]

The "I can cast any spell I want 12+ times per day" (with light optimization) capstone secures this at T1.

If you want it there, good. If you want it at sorcerer level, you might want to nerf that. The fact that, if you aren't alone, you can also use all the spells your allies do, though less flexibly, is also very good.

It's definitely a full caster. However, before it's capstone, without allies, it will still be fairly weak unless fighting other casters who happen to use a lot of spells they are vulnerable to, which, as a matter of course, isn't safe with Rings of Spell Battle flying about.

[Rauthiss]

The "I can cast any spell I want 12+ times per day" (with light optimization) capstone secures this at T1.

If you want it there, good. If you want it at sorcerer level, you might want to nerf that. The fact that, if you aren't alone, you can also use all the spells your allies do, though less flexibly, is also very good.

It's definitely a full caster. However, before it's capstone, without allies, it will still be fairly weak unless fighting other casters who happen to use a lot of spells they are vulnerable to, which, as a matter of course, isn't safe with Rings of Spell Battle flying about.

Hmm, true. I'll probably change the capstone to something weaker.

[Rauthiss]

Bumpity bump bump for review.

[zagan]

Well someone already did an evaluation but I'll try my hand at it.



Hit Die: d4
Skill Points: 2+Int mod, x4 at first level.
Skills: Concentration (CON), Craft (INT), Decipher Script (INT), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (INT), Spellcraft (INT), Use Magic Device (CHA)


Standard, nothing to change here.


Spells Known
-snip-

Seem fine


Spellcasting: -snip-

Standard


School Study: An Intuimancer, as a result of his need to practice a spell over and over, can only add spells from 3 schools to his spells known list, chosen at 1st level. She may also add universal spells.

You might want to clear up the wording perhaps something like that:

At first level choose three scholl magic among the following list: Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, Transmutation.
You can only cast spell from these scholl plus Universal spell.



Bonus Feat: At 2nd, 6th, 11th, and 16th level, the Intuimancer may gain a bonus feat. They may choose from Skill Focus (Spellcraft), any metamagic feat, any item creation feat, Spell Penetration, Spell Mastery, and Spell Focus.


Standard.


Mimic Potion: Whenever an Intuimancer drinks a potion, she may make a Spellcraft check with DC 10 + (2*Spell Level). If she succeeds, she adds the spell the potion contained to her spells known list until she regains her spell slots. This class ability overrides School Study.

Nice ability as was said by DragoonWraith you might want to clarify the wording.


Practiced Caster: An Intuimancer may cast spells of the indicated level as a supernatural ability. She still retains the ability to cast them as normal spells.


That's really powerfull, you need to add that the expensive material component and Xp cost must still be paid otherwise it will be abused even with the level limit.


Leech Spell Completion: Instead of casting the spell within a spell completion item, an Intuimancer may make a Use magic Device check with DC 20 + Spell Level. If she succeeds, she may instead use the item to regain a spell slot of the level of the spell stored in the item.

What's the effect on the item ? Can it still be used afterward ?


Mimic Spell Completion: Instead of casting the spell within a spell completion item, an Intuimancer may make a Spellcraft check with DC 20 + (2*spell level). If she succeeds, she adds the spell contained in the item to her spells known list until she regains her spell slots. This class ability overrides school study.

Same thing as with Mimic potion and same question as with the Leech ability.


Mimic Spell Trigger: Instead of casting a spell within a spell trigger item, an Intuimancer may make a Spellcraft check with DC 20 + (2*spell level). If she succeeds, she adds the spell contained in the item to her spells known list until she regains her spell slots. This class ability overrides school study.

Does it consume charge from the tiem ?


Leech Spell Trigger: Instead of casting the spell within a spell completion item, an Intuimancer may make a Use magic Device check with DC 20 + Spell Level. If she succeeds, she may instead expend a number of charges up to her class level/2 - 3. If she does, she may regain a spell slot of a level equal to the number of charges expended.

Same question as above.



Skilled Caster: An Intuimancer can cast spells affected by metamagic without increasing the casting time.

Nice.


Echo Caster: Whenever an Intuimancer sees a spellcaster cast a spell, she may make a Spellcraft check with DC 10 + the other caster's caster level. If she succeeds, she may cast the spell as the other person did as if they had used the eschew materials spell. However, the Intuimancer uses her ability score and caster level for DCs and variable effects.

Does it use a spell slot ?


Mimic Caster: Whenever an Intuimancer successfully identifies a spell through the use of a spellcraft check, she may add the spell to her spells known list for one minute. This overrides School Study.

Nice.


Intuitive Casting: A number of times per day equal to her Wisdom modifier, an Intuimancer may cast any spell on the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, as if it was on her spells known list.

Powerfull but it's a capstone. Are you still limit by scholl study ?



So? Rip me apart! :3

Done

[Rauthiss]

So at this point, what's really needed for the class is to clear up the wording on most of these and eliminate some of the gray areas. Got it.

[zagan]

So at this point, what's really needed for the class is to clear up the wording on most of these and eliminate some of the gray areas. Got it.

Yeah, that's exactly it. And I didn't say so but I really like the idea and the ability are nice.

[Temotei]

Because no one else did: Madness? THIS. IS. SPARTA!

*whoosh*

Ahhhhhh ahhh ahhhhhhh ahhhh ahhh ahhh ahhhhh ahhhh...etc. :smalltongue:

[Rauthiss]

Updated! :3

[zagan]

This look good now, no obvious loophole. A solid Tier 1 full caster, good job.

[Flickerdart]

I wouldn't say Tier 1. Tier 2 if dropped into a dungeon alone, Tier 1.5ish with the help of another Tier 1 caster or a stockpile of purchased scrolls or wands. I would put a range limit on the capstone, otherwise the Intuimancer just casts Gate or otherwise views someone like Elminster (or even looks at an autographed picture of Elminster) and gets a pile of spells. Without that little exploit (and a capstone does not a tier change make) it's Tier 2.
I would also make the Spellcraft checks on the Leech and Mimic for items an explicit action (Move or Standard).

[Rauthiss]

As much as I appreciate the kind words, I wasn't going for Tier 1. I'm considering lowering down the maximum spell level known to 6 or 7, then spreading out the class features around more. Thoughts on that?

[DracoDei]

What weapons are they proficient with? With only 1 1st level spell known until 3rd level (where they also get mimic potion), that could be very important.

[Rauthiss]

I was planning on having them be proficient with only simple weapons.

[Rauthiss]

Any thoughts, anyone?