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taltamir
2010-03-11, 10:52 PM
I don't want to be a hellfire warlock... are there any other good or cool PrCs for warlock?

Darrin
2010-03-11, 11:00 PM
I don't want to be a hellfire warlock... are there any other good or cool PrCs for warlock?

Eldritch Disciple is pretty strong. I'm also quite fond of Unseen Seer, but qualifying for it can be a bit persnickety.

taltamir
2010-03-11, 11:26 PM
i have played eldritch disciple... for most of your career you are way too weak. And you lose lots of warlock levels to meet the requirement... you can hedge it towards cleric to only lose 2 cleric levels, but that means you lose even more warlock levels.

I'd prefer one that doesn't lose any warlock progression.
thanks for the suggestions though...

where is unseen seer from?

Kosjsjach
2010-03-11, 11:32 PM
Unseen Seer is in Complete Mage. For future queries of this sort, this is a good resource (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/lists). (It's spell search is lacking, but that's why you go here (http://www.imarvintpa.com/DnDLive/FindSpell.php).)

Before someone beats me to it, an apparently popular class combo is Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Hellfire Warlock 3. The entries all work out if planned out properly, and it certainly sounds pretty powerful once Ur-Priest gains steam.

taltamir
2010-03-11, 11:58 PM
mmm... ur priest is very fitting for a warlock... and its easier to reach the min reqs with it then with a plain old cleric thanks to SL = CL on it...
i also love the idea thematically...
doesn't work too well for me though since they must be evil and I don't do evil. thanks for the suggestion. Plus you still lose warlock progression which I don't want to do.

I looked over unseen seer... it doesn't seem to work for warlocks since its requirement is that you have arcane scrying. it also doesn't advance the eldritch blast. Am I missing something?

I was looking more for a warlock PrC where you remain an actual warlock. that is, you don't sacrifice your blast or your invocations progression.
Thank you for that link, I looked up warlock PrCs and I found enlightened spirit from CM60... which sucks really.
Interestingly, eunuch warlock from OA38 is not a warlock, but a wu jen/sorc PrC that utterly and totally sucks (free permanent empower/maximize spell on 3/2 spells... but its a 0/10 caster level class with the "feature" of raising your max SL at level 5 and level 10... so a wu jen 9 (can cast 5th level spells) who has taken 10 levels in eunich warlock, instead of having 9th level spell as a 19th level caster, has a 5th level spells + 0 6th and 7th level spells (aka, bonus from high int spells only for those levels). and still CL9 if I am not mistaken... instead of just getting 9th level casting by now... this is really stupid. At least they could have made it a 4/10 CL progression instead of this weird feature.

So anyways, it seems that there simply aren't any full progression warlock PrCs with the exception of hellfire warlock... which I don't want...

Speaking of hellfire. I just read it and it explicitly says that if you do not have a con score or are immune to con damage you can NOT use its con draining abilities... so how exactly is the binder trick supposed to work?

Zaq
2010-03-11, 11:59 PM
Binding Naberius doesn't make you immune or even resistant to con damage. You take every point of it.

You also just so happen to heal it at a rate of 1 point per round. But you take every point of con damage... for a while.

taltamir
2010-03-12, 12:01 AM
Binding Naberius doesn't make you immune or even resistant to con damage. You take every point of it.

You also just so happen to heal it at a rate of 1 point per round. But you take every point of con damage... for a while.

ah, that makes sense. Sounds pretty damn awesome combo actually.

Kelb_Panthera
2010-03-12, 12:07 AM
The binder trick works because the vestige doesn't prevent you from taking damage, it just heals it in a hurry. Some DM's drop the ban-hammer on it out of principal though. As for PrC's that advance warlock, there aren't many that advance warlock specifically, but there are at least a handful of classes that have the "arcane spellcasting level +1" class feature that warlocks can qualify for. Honestly though, most of those aren't terribly good. You're generally better off just sacrificing a level of warlock for sorc/wizard and using early entry cheese to get into one of the sorc/wizard PrC's and using that to advance your warlock abilities. It works because of the clause in the +1 spellcasting class feature's description that says if you have more than one arcane spellcasting class, pick one for the class to advance. Again, some DM's will drop the ban-hammer on sheer principal for this.

Edit: Partially ninja'd.

taltamir
2010-03-12, 12:12 AM
thanks for all the info guys...
The binder 1 (nebarius)/warlock X/hellfire warlock 3 trick is really nice.
the ur priest route is also pretty cool.

I think I will just stick to a vanillalock though. its such a cool class, its a real shame there aren't more PrCs out for it.


You're generally better off just sacrificing a level of warlock for sorc/wizard and using early entry cheese to get into one of the sorc/wizard PrC's and using that to advance your warlock abilities.
would that advance the Eldritch blast?

T.G. Oskar
2010-03-12, 12:26 AM
Referring to those classes...


would that advance the Eldritch blast?

Yes, yes they're meant to. If you get a level that's considered "+1 to arcane spellcasting", you progress your Eldritch Blast damage and your acquisition and character level of invocations (including, IIRC, access to Lesser/Greater/Dark invocations), which is the main gist of the Warlock anyways.

It's not as bad as Dragonfire Adept, which gets unfairly boned because it gets less invocations and because the breath effects don't count as invocations but as class abilities. Being treated as Dragonblooded no matter what doesn't help that much either (and it cannot access the classes that directly benefit Warlock without some homebrewing).

Zaq
2010-03-12, 12:34 AM
You can get into Sentinal of Bharrai (BoED) without too much fuss, just a couple of burned feats. This allows you to turn into a bear. At will. With 10/10 casting, worded such that it applies to warlocks. Also a bunch of other goodies.

The downside is that you have to be exalted. Still, you're at least an exalted bear.

taltamir
2010-03-12, 02:36 AM
You can get into Sentinal of Bharrai (BoED) without too much fuss, just a couple of burned feats. This allows you to turn into a bear. At will. With 10/10 casting, worded such that it applies to warlocks. Also a bunch of other goodies.

The downside is that you have to be exalted. Still, you're at least an exalted bear.

BoED p69
and this is freaking AWESOMENESS PERSONIFIED!
I love the class... I totally want a warlock sentinal of bhari for my next warlock!
plus... bear cavalry :P

JeminiZero
2010-03-12, 02:54 AM
You could try Eldritch Theurge. Splash 1 arcane spellcasting class (probably sorcerer), and grab precocious apprentice to qualify. You only lose 1 warlock level for tasty arcane goodness, the best of which is probably the ability to cast any area spell, centred on an enemy that you blast.

AbyssKnight
2010-03-12, 10:51 PM
few to no lost caster levels, min multiclassing

Sentinel of Bharrai (BoED) 10/10 casting
Swanmay* (BoED) 9/10 casting
*DM approval, resticted to Rangers or Druids as only source of Wild Empathy but Warlocks can pick it up with an invocation
Daggerspell Mage (CAdv) lose 1 level to qualify, 9/10 casting
Blood Magus (CArc) 8/10 casting
Enlightened Fist (CArc) lose 1 level to qualify, 8/10 casting
Wildmage (CArc) 10/10 casting
Mythic Exemplar (CChamp) 8/10 casting
Paragnostic Apostle (CChamp) 5/5 casting
Eldritch Disciple (CMage) lose 3 levels to qualify, 10/10 casting (for warlock)
Eldritch Theurge (CMage) lose 1 level to qualify (Precocious Apprentice), 10/10 casting
Wild Soul (CMage) lose 1 level to qualify (Precocious Apprentice), 9/10 casting
Aracnamancer (DotU) 5/8 casting
Demonbinder (DotU) must be drow, 9/10 casting
Hellfire Warlock (FC 2) 3/3 casting
Master of Shadow (ToM) 9/10 casting
Frostmage (Frostburn) lose 1 level to qualify, 10/10 casting
Fiend Blooded (HoH) lose 1 level to qualify (Precocious Apprentice), 9/10 casting
Tainted Scholar (HoH) 10/10 casting
Dracolexi (RoD) lose 1 level to qualify (Precocious Apprentice), 9/10 casting
Dragonheart Mage (RoD) lose 1 level to qualify, 8/10 casting
Ruathar (RotW) 3/3 casting
Sandshaper (Sandstorm) 8/10 casting
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
you can qualify, but lose more casting

Disciple of Asmodeus (BoVD) 6/10 casting
Acolyte of the Skin (CArc) 5/10 casting
Green Star Adept (CArc) 5/10 casting
Mindbender (CArc) 5/10 casting
Enlightened Spirit (CMage) no casting, but adds EB damage and some invocations
Dragonslayer (Draco) 5/10 casting
Platinum Knight (Draco) 5/10 casting
Talon of Tiamat (Draco) 5/10 casting
Walker in the Waste (Sandstorm) lose 3 levels to qualify, 8/10 casting

Optimystik
2010-03-12, 11:30 PM
Ruathar (RotW) is an excellent PrC for Warlocks - it is only 3 levels long (3/3 casting), nature-themed (you're basically an Elf-friend), easy as pie to qualify for and gives you all Knowledge skills as class skills. This is a great lead-in to Swanmay and Sentinel of Bharrai.

Child of Night (ToM) requires some wonky invocations to qualify for, but makes you creepy as hell.

Sophismata
2010-03-12, 11:48 PM
You can go Eldritch Disciple and only lose 2 warlock levels (and still get 9th level divine casting).

Warlock 5 / Ur-Priest 2 / Eldritch Disciple 10 / Hellfire Warlock 3

You take the Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vest) feat to offset the Con loss. It means you're not taking a level in binder, but it does burn another feat.

Gametime
2010-03-13, 12:01 AM
You can go Eldritch Disciple and only lose 2 warlock levels (and still get 9th level divine casting).

Warlock 5 / Ur-Priest 2 / Eldritch Disciple 10 / Hellfire Warlock 3

You take the Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vest) feat to offset the Con loss. It means you're not taking a level in binder, but it does burn another feat.

Warlock doesn't qualify for Ur-Priest at level 5. They lack the base fortitude save, which is part of why a dip in Binder is recommended. (The fact that it provides a RAW-uncontestable way to counteract the Con loss is a bonus.)

taltamir
2010-03-13, 12:12 AM
Thanks you very much for the list. Lemme read through them and write my opinion of each for anyone who is considering them for his warlock (also, to get people to correct me on any mistake I make)

Daggerspell Mage (CAdv) lose 1 level to qualify, 9/10 casting - this one absolutely sucks and not worth the level loss, heck, even if it was 10/10 casting its not worth losing the basic warlock class features over these crap features.

Blood Magus (CArc) 8/10 casting - the 2 lost levels hurt, but the class has really awesome abilities, is thematically appropriate too. Also synnergizes well with warlock, since warlock gets special crafting ability (emulate any spell) and the blood magus gives him a humonculos familiar, potion crafting, and scroll crafting. (craft a scroll of powerful cleric / wizard spells, likewise with potions).

Enlightened Fist (CArc) lose 1 level to qualify, 9/10 casting - the 1 level lost to qualify is a single level monk dip (you can do it without a monk dip by taking stunning fist the hard way, aka prereq: Dex 13, Wis 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +8.). The casting is actually 8/10 (1st and 6th level do not progress casting).
looking at the abilities, they utterly suck. Not worth it over base warlock even if it was a 10/10 class with no monk 1 prereq. things like "convert a spell to 1HP per spell level" or "convert a ray ranged touch attack into a regular touch attack" (and no, it doesn't improve the action economy)

Wildmage (CArc) 10/10 casting - worse HD, saves, and BAB than warlock. Much worse class features. The features are basically "take magic, make it unreliable"... and it doesn't even hedge the bets in the wildmage's favor, the closest it gets to it is having its CL be -3+1d6 on all spells cast. Which averages out to a +0.5 (since the average of 1d6 is 3.5); but is unreliable and warlocks don't care.
Immunity to confusion and insanity (level 6) is one of their only two useful abilities, so is rolling twice and selecting the better result when using a random item (but those are so rare I have never used one) @ level 3. both don't justify the class.
Everything else utterly sucks about this class, even compared to regular wizards. Wildmages are a nerf to any caster ever to exist; especially so a warlock.

Mythic Exemplar (CChamp) 8/10 casting - a confusing class, as it is 6 different classes in one (you only get to choose one).
4 are 5/10 casting. 2, imdastri or ktolemagne are 8/10 casting. Imdastri advances divine casting, ktolemagne arcane casting... So for an arcane warlock, only ktolemagne mythic exemplar is worth looking at; the rest of the review of this class will assume you chose ktolemagne.
same BAB, worse saves (good will, bad fort and ref). lose 2 caster levels.
at level two you gain a +5 sacred onus on Concentration, Decipher cript, Knowledge (arcana), and Spellraft checks. level 4: +4 insight to int for 1 round a day. 6th level, once per day, cast identify with no material component cost. @8th level, gain SR = 10+CL, for one round a day. level 10: you may spontanously convert any spell you have prepared for a divinition spell of a lower level already in your spellbook (useless for a warlock).
The abilities here are not all bad, but the warlock base abilities are better. Do not under any circumstances take 10th level here, since you lose the second caster level on 10th level for a benefit that doesn't apply to warlocks anyways. 9 levels means 8/9 casting instead of 8/10 casting.

Paragnostic Apostle (CChamp95) 5/5 casting - wow, actually considers warlocks as a possibility. advance casting and turning (N/A for warlock), grants lore at first level, and grants a power of choice every level. Most abilities you chose from are not impressive (which are basically, +1DC for very specific spells, or very specific targets), but one is godly.
You can get the ability to grant fast healing X to ANY summoned creature for duration of summon (X = CL/3 to max of 5 @ CL15). Also there is +1 vs SR and dispel checks. one gives +2 level for turn attempts and +1DC vs undead.
This is godly class for clerics, but I don't see the benefit to warlocks, as warlocks don't summon, have turning, or get cleric domains.

I will do the rest later at a different post.

Eldritch Disciple (CMage) lose 3 levels to qualify, 10/10 casting (for warlock)
Eldritch Theurge (CMage) lose 1 level to qualify (Precocious Apprentice), 10/10 casting
Wild Soul (CMage) lose 1 level to qualify (Precocious Apprentice), 9/10 casting
Arcanamancer (DotU) 5/8 casting
Demonbinder (DotU) must be drow, 9/10 casting
Hellfire Warlock (FC 2) 3/3 casting
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not Good Warlock PRCs- you can qualify, but lose alot of casting

Acolyte of the Skin (CArc) 5/10 casting
Green Star Adept (CArc) 5/10 casting
Mindbender (CArc) 5/10 casting
Enlightened Spirit (CMage) no casting, but adds EB damage and some invocations

AbyssKnight
2010-03-13, 12:20 AM
Alright, I made it through all my non-setting specific books.

Just another note, I took out the "Good Warlock" and "Not Good Warlock" titles, as all I was looking for was a) if multiclassing was needed to enter and b) loss of casting.

This means I didn't compare BAB, saves, skills, or evaluate the class features much. So take the list with a grain (or pile) of salt, since some classes may not actually benefit a warlock much over just staying a warlock.

Oh, and the comment that "Wild Mage is a nurf to every caster ever" is totally not true. Doesn't really help Warlocks, but with Practiced Caster or a PrC that gives Spell Power you are looking at worse breaking even and usually getting a CL boost.

Optimystik
2010-03-13, 12:22 AM
It's possible to get 9th-level divine spells and Dark Invocations (well, one) without using Ur-Priest:

Cloistered Cleric 3 (Divine Magician ACF from CM)/Warlock 2/Eldritch Disciple 10/MT 5

(Divine Magician gives you arcane spells, allowing you to qualify for Mystic Theurge later in your career to finish the build.)

Benefits:
- Spells as Cleric 17 (9ths)
- Invocations as Warlock 17 (1 Dark, 8d6 EB)
- Unlike Ur-lock builds, doesn't have to be evil - useful if you want to use ED's Healing Blast.

taltamir
2010-03-13, 12:24 AM
Alright, I made it through all my non-setting specific books.

Just another note, I took out the "Good Warlock" and "Not Good Warlock" titles, as all I was looking for was a) if multiclassing was needed to enter and b) loss of casting.

This means I didn't compare BAB, saves, skills, or evaluate the class features much. So take the list with a grain (or pile) of salt, since some classes may not actually benefit a warlock much or just staying a warlock.

certainly... your list helped me greatly focus my search. I can now read each and evaluate it for warlock specifically, some of them are quite good for warlocks, other are good for other classes. I don't mean it as a devaluation of your effort, but rather, a continuation in building upon the work you did.


Cloistered Cleric 3 (Divine Magician ACF from CM)/Warlock 2/Eldritch Disciple 10/MT 5
you could, but you are going to suck for most of your career, i made one... from level 3 onwards you get progressively weaker. You only start catching up at level 8 (your first dual progression class, eldritch disciple is 10/10 warlock 9/10 cleric progression). But when I say start catching up, I mean gain more power per level, you will still be levels behind on warlock and cleric casting, making you ineffective at both. Your EB damage is crap, you invocations are behind, your cleric casting is behind...
If anything, it makes more sense to go cloistered cleric 4/warlock 1/edlritch disciple 10/MT 5. That way you are only 2 caster levels behind on cleric with some warlock sprinkled in for fun. You still get dark invocations, only at level 20 instead of 19. but then you are mostly a cleric, not mostly a warlock.

check out this character I made: http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZcEvOA-L4zcZGNqNnF0NDdfNjg5ZDI2NmczZzg&hl=en

Also, it didn't occur to me before the warlocks will qualify for MT... but I see now how they would.

deuxhero
2010-03-13, 12:32 AM
Ur-locks don't need to be evil, just play a priest of a dead god.

Thurbane
2010-03-13, 12:42 AM
Chameleon 2 seems to be popular to use your floating feat to craft magic items.

Optimystik
2010-03-13, 12:47 AM
CCleric 4/Warlock 1 is indeed the standard way to build this - I was just trying to squeeze that extra 1d6 EB out of it :smallwink:


Ur-locks don't need to be evil, just play a priest of a dead god.

Yes they do - Ur-Priest has "any Evil" as an alignment requirement. The dead god part is because Ur-Priests can't worship a deity, but ED's need to.

Pluto
2010-03-13, 12:58 AM
few to no lost caster levels, min multiclassing

Sentinel of Bharrai (BoED) 10/10 casting
Swanmay* (BoED) 9/10 casting
Blood Magus (CArc) 8/10 casting
Aracnamancer (DotU) 5/8 casting
Master of Shadow (ToM) 9/10 casting
Sandshaper (Sandstorm) 8/10 casting

Good list.

I'm suddenly much more interested in playing a Warlock.

taltamir
2010-03-13, 12:59 AM
Ruathar (RotW) is an excellent PrC for Warlocks - it is only 3 levels long (3/3 casting), nature-themed (you're basically an Elf-friend), easy as pie to qualify for and gives you all Knowledge skills as class skills. This is a great lead-in to Swanmay and Sentinel of Bharrai.

Child of Night (ToM) requires some wonky invocations to qualify for, but makes you creepy as hell.

Ruathar (RotW122) - same BAB and HD as warlock, different saves but still 2 good saves. 3/3 casting is good. Very thematically appropriate, especially going into Swanmay and Sentinel of Bharrai as you said.
The abilities however are:
LVL1: elves magically recognize you are one and are thus are friendly by default unless they see you do something evil.
LVL1: get one time gift of ~1000gp item.
LVL2: Low light vision
LVL2: Elven keen senses gives racial bonus +2 to spot search listen (stacks with existing keen senses if already an elf)
LVL3: +1 sacred bonus to attack and saves while outside, aboveground, at night.
LVL3: Live 50% longer

Basically, the abilities utterly suck. all knowledge skills is useful though; especially as prereqs for bharrai. While it is easy as pie to qualify for, you need BAB6 (warlock 8), or any skill 9 (level 6), or 3rd level casting (EB @ level 6, there is no least invocation of 3rd level equivalence; I just looked through every single least invocation in the book, and you get lesser in level 6 as well).. so basically, you need to be warlock 6 before qualifying. While bharrai requires you to be level 5 only (but you need an alternative source of knowledge nature). if you don't have a source for know nature, you can take this at level 7, and bharrai at level 8-18. because straight warlock can't take bharrai until he is warlock 13 due to the knowledge nature 8 requirement

Gametime
2010-03-13, 01:03 AM
Warlocks only have one good save, Will. Why do people keep referring to them having two?

Kelb_Panthera
2010-03-13, 01:03 AM
Ruathar (RotW122) - same BAB and HD as warlock, different saves but still 2 good saves. 3/3 casting is good. Very thematically appropriate, especially going into Swanmay and Sentinel of Bharrai as you said.
The abilities however are:
LVL1: elves magically recognize you are one and are thus are friendly by default unless they see you do something evil.
LVL1: get one time gift of ~1000gp item.
LVL2: Low light vision
LVL2: Elven keen senses gives racial bonus +2 to spot search listen (stacks with existing keen senses if already an elf)
LVL3: +1 sacred bonus to attack and saves while outside, aboveground, at night.
LVL3: Live 50% longer

Basically, the abilities utterly suck. all knowledge skills is useful though; especially as prereqs for bharrai. While it is easy as pie to qualify for, you need BAB6 (warlock 8), any skill 9 (level 6) 3rd level casting (EB @ level 6, there is no least invocation of 3rd level equivalence; I just looked through every single least invocation in the book, and you get lesser in level 6 as well).. so basically, you need to be warlock 6 before qualifying. While bharrai requires you to be level 5 only (but you need an alternative source of knowledge nature). if you don't have a source for know nature, you can take this at level 7, and bharrai at level 8-18. because straight warlock can't take bharrai until he is warlock 13 due to the knowledge nature 8 requirement

Actually you only need one of those three. Either BAB 6 or any skill 9 ranks or the ability to cast 3rd level spells. I'd go with the skills for warlock since you don't meet the bab requirement till 9th and don't meet the spellcasting requirement at all without dipping a spellcasting class.

Optimystik
2010-03-13, 01:07 AM
Basically, the abilities utterly suck.

Its full-casting, so the abilities are irrelevant really.
But as you said, you can dip in for one level to get Know (Nature) as a class skill and move on to Sentinel of Bear-eye or Swanmay if you really want :smalltongue:

EDIT: I didn't realize what you were saying until Kelb pointed it out. Yes, with Ruathar all you need is a skill at 9 ranks to qualify (and save an elf of course - bleah.)

Bonus points if you save an Elven Swanmay, qualifying for 2 PrCs at once.

taltamir
2010-03-13, 01:10 AM
Child of Night (ToM117) - qualify by level 5.
same HD, 1 good save instead of 2, worse bab.
abilities are actually useful, mainly improving your defenses and granting immunity (to different things than the warlock normally grants).
Also very cool and thematic build.
I don't think it is worth the loss of 1 caster level though. it would have been a very cool alternative to traditional warlock if it was a 10/10 casting class though.
EDIT: actually, now that I think about it, it basically replaces warlock's natural defenses with better natural defenses at the cost of 1 caster level. and a bunch of cool thematically appropriate abilities, its definitely a valid warlock path. not any better or worse than standard warlock 20.[/EDIT]


Actually you only need one of those three. Either BAB 6 or any skill 9 ranks or the ability to cast 3rd level spells. I'd go with the skills for warlock since you don't meet the bab requirement till 9th and don't meet the spellcasting requirement at all without dipping a spellcasting class.

actually, a warlocks eldritch blast is considered a spell whose spell level is 1/2 the warlocks level. So at level 6 the warlock automatically qualifies :P

and I noticed it was or, this is why I summarized with "warlocks 6 qualify" :P

Its abilities itself really suck, they are all roleplay with no cruch. But the knowledge nature thing makes it a valid dip.


Warlocks only have one good save, Will. Why do people keep referring to them having two?

Oops. I remembered them having will and fort for some reason. My bad.

Optimystik
2010-03-13, 01:15 AM
Losing 1 caster level is not the end of the world as so many in CharOp would have you believe. Though -1d6 EB and a Dark invocation seem like a steep price to pay, I'd say permanent concealment, able to become incorporeal, and not needing to eat/sleep/breathe are worth it.

taltamir
2010-03-13, 01:23 AM
Swanmay (BoED76) 9/10 casting - Must be a woman, knowledge nature 8 and survival 8 are a problem; you need to be warlock 13, or dip into a class that grants them, such as elf friend first (Ruathar).
I don't see how a warlock can qualify for it at all though, because you MUST be able to cast speak with animals.

the swanmay abilities utterly and completely suck, with the exception of spell resistance 12+Swanmay level, and DR10/cold iron at level 10. (which the base warlock already gets).

This isn't worth it even if it was a full casting class, because unlike the wizard and the sorcerer, the warlock actually has somewhat useful class features. The SR might be worth if it was a 10/10 class it if you really don't care for the other benefits of warlock.


Losing 1 caster level is not the end of the world as so many in CharOp would have you believe. Though -1d6 EB and a Dark invocation seem like a steep price to pay, I'd say permanent concealment, able to become incorporeal, and not needing to eat/sleep/breathe are worth it.

you also lose on DR, and your energy resistance is 15 cold instead of 10 vs 2 of choice. Permanent concealment and per day incorporeality are cool, but losing invocation progression means you miss out on spells that do the same or better. I did say it is actually a valid, yet different, path for the warlock to follow.

dark invocation (at will):
Dark Discorporation: Become a swarm of batlike shadows, gaining many benefits of the swarm subtype.
Dark Foresight: Use foresight as the spell, and communicate telepathically with a close target of the effect.
Path of Shadow: Use shadow walk as the spell and speed up natural healing.
Retributive Invisibility: Use greater invisibility as the spell (self only) that deals damage in a burst if dispelled.
Word of Changing: Use baleful polymorph as the spell, but the effect could become permanent.

Losing one of these is a steep price to pay.

Optimystik
2010-03-13, 01:26 AM
I don't see how a warlock can qualify for it at all though, because you MUST be able to cast speak with animals.

Call of the Beast (CM, page 123.)

It's suboptimal, true, but there aren't many other really thematic options for a Feylock in 3.5.

Kelb_Panthera
2010-03-13, 01:33 AM
actually, a warlocks eldritch blast is considered a spell whose spell level is 1/2 the warlocks level. So at level 6 the warlock automatically qualifies :P

and I noticed it was or, this is why I summarized with "warlocks 6 qualify" :P



Check again friend, the eldritch blast counts as a spell-like ability, not a spell. Same with all of his invocations. I really wish you were right, it'd make getting into PrC's so much easier for a warlock.

taltamir
2010-03-13, 02:17 AM
Eldritch Disciple (CMage) lose 3 levels to qualify, 10/10 casting (for warlock) - cool class with cool abilities. But losing 3 levels to qualify (2 with ur priest) really hurts, you are way behind on the power curve, you get progressively weaker until level8, at which point you start catching up, you only finally catch up with full casters somewhere between level 15 and 20. It is a cool class and concept, but like all dual progression casters it suffers.
Here is the one I played: Salem The Eldritch Disciple (http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZcEvOA-L4zcZGNqNnF0NDdfNjg5ZDI2NmczZzg&hl=en)

Eldritch Theurge (CMage) lose 1 level to qualify (Precocious Apprentice), 10/10 casting - Same as Eldritch Disciple; DM probably will not allow precocious early entry trick.

Wild Soul (CMage84) lose 1 level to qualify (Precocious Apprentice), 9/10 casting - the only noteworthy abilities are summon monster (liimited selection) 3/day (level increases as you level) and that wildsouls have a list of spells Dependant on whether they are good or evil (netural characters get to chose, changing alignments retroactively changes your abilities) which they may spontanously convert their prepared spells or spell slots into.
This does not seem to work for warlocks as it says:
Access to a spontaneous spell does not grant the ability to cast it if you do not have a prepared spell or spell slot of appropriately high level to lose in exchange.
So a warlock taking this class is losing 1 caster level for nothing. if your DM rules that you can use warlock castings for it, then it gives you a list of 9 spells (which spells depend on alignment) you may now spontaneously cast at will, some of which are REALLY powerful (including time stop, at will). However I don't see how you could possibly make this interpretation, if you do, then this class is broken all to hell.

{table]Spell Level|Seelie (good)|Unseelie (evil)
1st|remove fear|lesser confusion
2nd|Tasha's hideous laughter|detect thoughts
3rd|invisibility sphere|poison
4th|break enchantment|bestow curse
5th|baleful polymorph|endless slumber*
6th|true seeing|mass suggestion
7th|prismatic spray|waves of exhaustion
8th|sympathy|horrid wilting
9th|time stop|wail of the banshee[/table]
As you can see, the list is very very good if your DM allows you to use warlock castings to get any of those at will.

Arachnomancer (DotU65) 5/8 casting - qualify at level 5, and be evil.
spider domain: non clerics actually get daily domain slots with a spell from the spider domain. (max level Dependant on your current max spell level in whichever class gives you casting). also get rebuke spiders.
bunch of spider related abilities that don't matter, immunity to web, and wildshape into spiders only.
Same BAB and HD as warlock, ref save is good.

SPIDER DOMAIN
Granted Power: Rebuke or command spiders as an evil cleric rebukes or commands undead. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Cha modifier. (Arachnomancer who aren't clerics can still rebuke spiders, using only their Arachnomancer levels to calculate their cleric level)

Spider Domain Spells
1 Spider Climb: Grants ability to walk on walls and ceilings.
2 Summon Swarm: Summons swarm of bats, rats, or spiders.
3 Phantom Steed*: Magic horse appears for 1 hour/level. (*has vermin shape)
4 Giant Vermin: Turns centipedes, scorpions, or spiders into giant vermin.
5 Insect Plague: Locust swarms attack creatures.
6 Spider CurseÜ: Turn humanoid subject into a drider.
7 Stone SpidersÜ: Transform pebbles into monstrous spider constructs.
8 Creeping Doom: Swarms of centipedes attack at your command.
9 Spider ShapesÜ: Polymorph one creature/level into monstrous spider.

This is an interesting selection of spells, you basically get to cast one of those each day... I don't think its worth 3 caster levels though.

Demonbinder (DotU72) must be drow, 9/10 casting - a warlock specific class. Must be drow, level 5, and chaotic evil. It doesn't actually say that it advances the eldritch blast which is a problem; even though it seems like it was intended to (kinda like monks and proficiency with their own fists), it doesn't actually say it does.
Worst HD and BAB than warlock, but 2 good saves vs 1.
Better DR than warlock (6/good instead of 5/cold iron)
electricity immunity instead of resistance to 2 of choice

this is a very cool class with the ability to partially transform into a demon for 10 rounds (uses up damnation points, which you have as cha + level; 5 minute rest recharges them). that transformation gives you interesting powers and temporary hitpoints.

9/10 casting and no eldritch blast progression and lower HD and BAB (but better saves) isn't worth it I think. If your DM rules that it does progress eldritch blast, then it could be worth it, this is a very interesting class to try out as a drow. Definitely a new flavor of warlock, its not stronger or weaker then a regular warlock, just different.

Hellfire Warlock (FC2-p89) 3/3 casting - bread and butter of warlock PrC; allows you to boost your eldritch blast by 6d6 at third level, but at the cost of 1 con damage to yourself. You need to bind nebarious to make this worthwhile.

taltamir
2010-03-13, 02:24 AM
Its full-casting, so the abilities are irrelevant really.

if you are a sorcerer, then that is the case (ignoring other PrCs)... since they get no abilities whatsoever. If you are a wizard, it needs to be better abilities than 1 feat every 5 levels... in both cases it has to beat other, better PrCs... Actually, now that I think about it, I'd rather take 3 more levels of sorcerer than elf friend, 3 more levels of familiar progression are better than the "abilities" it offers.
but for a warlock, it doesn't just have to compete with other PrCs, it has to compete with the base abilities a warlock gets, such as DR and ER and so on... while they aren't too good and easily surpassed by better abilities, the abilities elf friend gives are so utterly bad the warlock base abilities has them beat. Actually I don't think I have ever seen more useless class abilities, the monk abilities make the elf friend abilities look sad and pathetic.

Sophismata
2010-03-13, 02:36 AM
Actually I don't think I have ever seen more useless class abilities, the monk abilities make the elf friend abilities look sad and pathetic.

But... but... you're a friend of elves! You can go into their houses at night, and wreck up the place.

taltamir
2010-03-13, 03:02 AM
But... but... you're a friend of elves! You can go into their houses at night, and wreck up the place.

literally :P, it is a magical class ability that you are a friend of elves*!

*wrecking their place actually causes you to lose that status.

AbyssKnight
2010-03-13, 03:08 AM
Prestige Classes don't have to say they increase Eldritch Blast. In the "Warlocks and Prestige Classes" section of CArc pg. 18, it explains that any prestige class that gives "+1 to spellcasting" increases EB and Invocations known/class of invocations available.

So, for ex., the Demonbinder gets 9/10 spell casting. That means you would add 9 levels to your Warlock to determine his EB damage and Invocations.

For Swanmay and Aracanamancer, you would look at "Specific Spell Requirements" CArc pg 78. If a PrC/feat requires the ability to cast a certain specific spell (as opposed to a certain level of spell) then having that spell as a spell-like ability also qualifies for the prereq.

So, for ex., the Swanmay, a Warlock can get Speak with Animals (and Wild Empathy) from Call of the Beast. Aracnamancer needs any one of three possible spells (Spider Climb, Summon Swarm, or Web). Warlocks have options for two of those (Spiderwalk for Spider Climb, and Summon Swarm for Summon Swarm).

taltamir
2010-03-13, 03:23 AM
Prestige Classes don't have to say they increase Eldritch Blast. In the "Warlocks and Prestige Classes" section of CArc pg. 18, it explains that any prestige class that gives "+1 to spellcasting" increases EB and Invocations known/class of invocations available.

the demonbinder does NOT get +1 to spellcasting, he gets +1 to "invocations known".

AbyssKnight
2010-03-13, 03:48 AM
Then it should be even more plain that it would increase EB as EB is an Invocation, as noted (strangely enough) under the Weapon and Armor Proficiency section of the Warlock class.


Complete Arcane pg7, in part
all invocations, including eldritch blast, have a somatic component


It seems unsurprising that a class that progresses Invocations (and therefore the CL for Invocations) would increase the damage of EB, since it is itself an Invocation.

Looking at the example character, a Warlock 5/Demonbinder 4, we can note is lists her EB as 4d6. Since Demonbinder loses one level of Invocations at 1st level, that makes her effectively an 8th level Warlock for EB and Invocations. Checking the Warlock progression, we see that indeed an 8th level Warlock would have 4d6 EB (if Demonbinder did not improve EB, she would only be considered 5th level and her EB would have been only 3d6).

taltamir
2010-03-13, 04:15 AM
Then it should be even more plain that it would increase EB as EB is an Invocation, as noted (strangely enough) under the Weapon and Armor Proficiency section of the Warlock class.

It seems unsurprising that a class that progresses Invocations (and therefore the CL for Invocations) would increase the damage of EB, since it is itself an Invocation.

Looking at the example character, a Warlock 5/Demonbinder 4, we can note is lists her EB as 4d6. Since Demonbinder loses one level of Invocations at 1st level, that makes her effectively an 8th level Warlock for EB and Invocations. Checking the Warlock progression, we see that indeed an 8th level Warlock would have 4d6 EB (if Demonbinder did not improve EB, she would only be considered 5th level and her EB would have been only 3d6).

thank you for this clarification. This is a very good thing then.
I know it seems I am being overly negative about the various classes, but itís just because most are unsuited for warlocks.

So let me go ahead and sum up what I think the good PrCs for warlock are which donít include becoming a dual progression caster (since I want to stay as a warlock); thanks everyone who pointed them out to me)

Warlock/ binder 1/ Hellfire Warlock 3/more warlock Ė binder 1 allows you to bind Neberious, which lets you heal 1 ability damage point per round per ability score. Hellfire warlock is a 3 level PrC for warlocks that lets you do an additional 6d6 damage with your eldritch blast in exchange for tacking 1 point of con damage, which nebarious heals you next round. Be careful of AoE blast shapes because its 1 con damage per target hit; you can kill yourself that way.

Sentinel of Bharrai (BoED69) Ė a really cool class, full warlock advancement, you get to transform into a (dire)bear of choice at will, daily lightening AoE spells, summon bear cavalry and some other cool stuff. You only qualify at level 13, but a 1 level dip into ruathar for the knowledge nature at level 7 lets you take SoB at level 8. Ruathar has useless class features other then the class skills; but it is full caster progression so you donít lose out on EB and invocations for taking that dip; so you might as well do it.
EDIT: taking the feat "education" which makes all knowledge skills class skills and gives a +2 bonus on two of them makes you qualify for SoB at level 7. So you can be a Warlock6/Sentinel of Bharrai 10/More warlock

Blood Magus (CArc) 8/10 casting - the 2 lost levels hurt, but the class has really awesome abilities, is thematically appropriate too. Also synergizes well with warlock, since warlock gets special crafting ability (emulate any spell) and the blood magus gives him a homunculus familiar, alternate medium potion crafting (in your bloodstream), and alternate medium scroll crafting (on your flesh). Craft scrolls of powerful cleric / wizard spells you donít normally have access to, likewise with potions.

Child of Night (ToM117) 9/10 casting - qualify by level 5. A very cool class thematically that replaces the warlocks natural defense abilities with a different, somewhat better set of defensive abilities. Costs 1 caster level / EB level though, but it is a very interesting warlock path to take; not any better or worse than standard warlock 20.

Demonbinder (DotU72) must be drow, 9/10 casting - a warlock specific class. Qualify by 5, and be chaotic evil. this is a very cool class with the ability to partially transform into a demon for 10 rounds (uses up damnation points pool, of which you have cha + level; 5 minute rest recharges them) that transformation gives you interesting powers and temporary hitpoints (5 temp HP per damnation point used). it is another valid path for a warlock, not more or less powerful than a regular warlock, just different.

Oh what the heck, I will list some good dual progression ones too:
Warlock 4/Ur Priest 2/Eldritch Disciple 10/Mystic Theurge 4.
lose 2 levels of warlock casting, gain 9th level cleric casting... plus ur priest is cool. Very powerful build

Warlock 4/Wizard 1 with Precocious Aprentice/Eldritch Theurge 10/more warlock
Lose 1 level of warlock casting, gain other arcane casting.

gorfnab
2010-03-13, 05:20 AM
Oh what the heck, I will list some good dual progression ones too:
Warlock 4/Ur Priest 2/Eldritch Disciple 10/Mystic Theurge 4.
lose 2 levels of warlock casting, gain 9th level cleric casting... plus ur priest is cool. Very powerful build

I'm not sure how you're qualifying for Ur-Priest that early because of skill requirements and saving throw requirements, but as previously mentioned this build below is much better and qualifies for it's prestige classes with very little effort:

Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Hellfire Warlock 3

Also look into the Escalation Mage from Faiths of Eberron. It's 6/6 for warlock casting and its abilities work on invocations very nicely.

And when all else fails there is usually a very nice handbook for most D&D classes to look at, like this one: Warlock Information Compilation (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2915.0)

taltamir
2010-03-13, 06:04 AM
interesting link... it points out something we missed:
Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil is a valid PrC for warlock :P. It will waste most of your invocations as prereqs unless you do something like Warlock 12/Wizard 1/IotSV 7. (where you only need to use one invocation as a prereq: devour magic)

Optimystik
2010-03-13, 12:42 PM
Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Hellfire Warlock 3

I don't think this build is possible - you'll hit Ur-Priest 11 (2+9) at level 17, and you can't advance a PrC's casting past 10 until epic levels.

So you have to make it ED 9, which gives you a level free for something else. I would take Mindbender (with the Charm invocation) and use one of my feats for Mindsight from LoM.

Tinydwarfman
2010-03-13, 12:53 PM
I don't think this build is possible - you'll hit Ur-Priest 11 (2+9) at level 17, and you can't advance a PrC's casting past 10 until epic levels.

So you have to make it ED 9, which gives you a level free for something else. I would take Mindbender (with the Charm invocation) and use one of my feats for Mindsight from LoM.

Wait, you have to advance Ur-Priest? I thought it was optional. Even if it isn't, I doubt many dm's will say "No, you're not allowed to take 10th level in that class, it doesn't give you enough".

Gametime
2010-03-13, 01:09 PM
Be careful of AoE blast shapes because its 1 con damage per target hit; you can kill yourself that way.



No, it isn't. You take 1 con damage every time you use the ability, and it explicitly says that using the ability on an AOE blast causes each target to take the extra damage. 1 con/blast, basically, regardless of who you hit.

Mongoose87
2010-03-13, 01:28 PM
Wait, you have to advance Ur-Priest? I thought it was optional. Even if it isn't, I doubt many dm's will say "No, you're not allowed to take 10th level in that class, it doesn't give you enough".

I think, as a DM, I would probably rule that level just gives you +1 CL.

Optimystik
2010-03-13, 01:35 PM
Wait, you have to advance Ur-Priest? I thought it was optional. Even if it isn't, I doubt many dm's will say "No, you're not allowed to take 10th level in that class, it doesn't give you enough".

You can take the 10th level of ED just fine, you just can't take it until Clvl 21. So you need something else to fill the last level (since Hellfire Warlock takes you to 19.)

Pluto
2010-03-13, 01:40 PM
You can take the 10th level of ED just fine, you just can't take it until Clvl 21. So you need something else to fill the last level (since Hellfire Warlock takes you to 19.)I don't mean to sound overly skeptical, but where can I find these rules?

Tinydwarfman
2010-03-13, 01:41 PM
You can take the 10th level of ED just fine, you just can't take it until Clvl 21. So you need something else to fill the last level (since Hellfire Warlock takes you to 19.)

I'm sorry, I still don't understand - Can you not take the level, or should you not take it?

AbyssKnight
2010-03-13, 02:26 PM
I just wanted to throw out my favorite Eldritch Disciple build. Note that it is more Cleric focus and loses a good bit of Warlock, so its not a great build for the OP but I still like it.

Warlock 1/ Cleric 2/ Master of Shrouds 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Master of Shrouds +5

Gets 11th level Warlock invocations, and 17th level Cleric spells, plus summoning incorporeal undead and Rebuke Undead as 19th level Cleric.


Also, it looks like I need to apologize. On DotU pg 74, under the Combat section there is one line that does indicate that EB damage is not advanced by Demonbinder. It isn't in the PrC entry itself, but in the description of playing the PrC after the class.

I disagree that this should be the case as invocation advancement should also advance EB as it is an invocation and the sample character shows EB being advanced by the class. But to be fair to the boards I had to mention the line now that I have seen it. Mea culpa.

If you DM doesn't allow Demonbinder to advance EB damage, I still think the class may be worth takeing, but it is definately a pretty big mark against it.

2xMachina
2010-03-13, 02:43 PM
I'm sorry, I still don't understand - Can you not take the level, or should you not take it?

He means can't.

Though I'd just rule that you get no benefit from that lvl with Ur-Priest till you become epic yourself.

Yorrin
2010-03-13, 02:57 PM
I'd like to second third fourth Sentinel of Bharrai. I've played a Warlock 10/SoB 10 before and had a blast (pun totally intended). A flying invisible talking bear can have all sorts of fun. Flavor/joking aside, Dire Bear form is actually pretty useful. Self-healing and melee competence round out the Warlock book of tricks rather nicely, imo. Especially if you're not building a Glaive-lock.

Optimystik
2010-03-13, 03:13 PM
I don't mean to sound overly skeptical, but where can I find these rules?

"A ten-level prestige class can progress beyond 10th level, but only if the character level is already 20th or higher." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/basics.htm)


He means can't.

Though I'd just rule that you get no benefit from that lvl with Ur-Priest till you become epic yourself.

That's a reasonable interpretation, but why waste it? Just grab Mindbender 1 instead (progresses Warlock just fine, and makes you qualify for Mindsight.)


I'd like to second third fourth Sentinel of Bharrai. I've played a Warlock 10/SoB 10 before and had a blast (pun totally intended). A flying invisible talking bear can have all sorts of fun. Flavor/joking aside, Dire Bear form is actually pretty useful. Self-healing and melee competence round out the Warlock book of tricks rather nicely, imo. Especially if you're not building a Glaive-lock.

How did you qualify at Warlock 10? You need 8 ranks of Know (Nature) which is not a class skill.

This is why Ruathar is such a helpful way to enter - easy qualification, gives you Know (Nature), is nature-themed itself, and does not delay your invocation/EB progression.

Pluto
2010-03-13, 03:26 PM
"A ten-level prestige class can progress beyond 10th level, but only if the character level is already 20th or higher." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/basics.htm)
That refers to actual levels in a class, not caster progression.

I'm not aware of any rules preventing caster progression to be raised with secondary PrCs.

I remember Keld tossing a few Suel Arcnamach builds that progressed to CL12 without drawing any criticism.

Yorrin
2010-03-13, 03:47 PM
How did you qualify at Warlock 10? You need 8 ranks of Know (Nature) which is not a class skill.

This is why Ruathar is such a helpful way to enter - easy qualification, gives you Know (Nature), is nature-themed itself, and does not delay your invocation/EB progression.

Feat: Educated- makes all Knowledge skills class skills for you.

KellKheraptis
2010-03-13, 03:48 PM
Optimystik, open up Complete Divine to the Ur-Priest and read the Adaptation Section. Nowhere in that section does it require an Ur-Priest to be evil, under any circumstance. You can play a lawful bloody good paladin kissing Ur-Priest of Paladine in Greyhawk just fine thanks to that.

AbyssKnight
2010-03-13, 04:19 PM
Forgotten Realms Warlock PrCs
Auspician (Faith and Pantheons)
lose 1 level to qualify, 10/10 casting
Wearer of Purple (Faiths and Pantheons)
lose 1 level to qualify, 10/10 casting
Windwalker (Faiths and Pantheons)
lose 1 level to qualify, 10/10 casting
Zhentarim Skymage (Lords of Darkness)
5/5 casting, needs Fiendish Heritage, Fiendish Legacy, and Fiendish Presence feats
Evereskan Tomb Guardian (PGtF)
lose 1 level to qualify (Precocious Apprentice), 5/5 casting
Harper Agent (PGtF)
4/5 casting
Harper Paragon (PGtF)
lose 1 level to qualify, 10/10 casting
Spellsinger (Races of Faerun)
lose 1 level to qualify, 5/5 casting
Serpent Slayer (Serpent Kingdoms)
lose 1 level to qualify, 10/10 casting
Master of the Yuirwood (Unapproachable East)
10/10 casting [see Ruathar is good for something]
Deep Diviner (Underdark)
9/10 casting

Eberron Warlock PrCs
Nosomatic Chirurgeon (Dragonmarked)
must be halfling, 4/5 casting
Cataclysm Mage (Explorer's Handbook)
prereqs not clear, say spell-likes qualify but must cast 3rd level spells...?, 9/10 casting
Impure Prince (Magic of Eberron)
lose 1 level to qualify, 4/6 casting
Renegade Mastermaker (Magic of Eberron)
8/10 casting
Escalation Mage (Faiths of Eberron)
5/5 casting

Again, just looking to see if multiclassing is necessary to qualify, and casting increase.

AbyssKnight
2010-03-13, 04:23 PM
Optimystik, open up Complete Divine to the Ur-Priest and read the Adaptation Section. Nowhere in that section does it require an Ur-Priest to be evil, under any circumstance. You can play a lawful bloody good paladin kissing Ur-Priest of Paladine in Greyhawk just fine thanks to that.

I believe most everyone is looking at the Requirements section, which does indeed state that the Ur Priest must be Evil.

The adaptation section would universally fall under a house rule to change the class as written.

And even then, it only says that you could adopt it to empower clerics of gods who have died/disappeared or wishing to elevate a non-divine being to godhood. The variants would not necessarily be evil, but it still does nothing to change the Requirements of the class as it is presented.

Thurbane
2010-03-13, 04:51 PM
Can you get into Anima Mage with Warlock instead of a casting class? If so, this might be a good option. You only need to take 1 level of Binder (or none, if you believe the cheese about the feats that give you limited binding ability), and the Anima Mage PrC is full casting progression for 10 levels, as well as improving binding 10/10.

AbyssKnight
2010-03-13, 05:01 PM
To get into Anima Mage you need 2nd level Arcane spells and 2nd level vestiges.

So you could go Wizard 1/Binder 1/Warlock 1/Anima Mage 10 (improving Binder and Warlock), with Precocious Apprentice, Improved Binding, and one metamagic feat (say, Invisible Spell). Follow that up with Eldritch Theurge 7, and you end up with Binder 11 (sorta 13), Wizard 11, Warlock 18 abilities. Not too bad.

Of course, you would also qualify without taking the level of Warlock (Wiz 1/Binder 1/Anima Mage 10) too.

taltamir
2010-03-14, 12:02 AM
I should note about Sentinel of Bharrai (BoED69) warlock, there is an easier way to enter it than ruathar... you can take the "educated" feat at level 1 which makes all knowledges your class skills for all your classes, and gives a +2 to two of them of your choice. You can then enter it at level 7, for warlock 6/SOB10/more warlock

Sentinel of Bharrai is a really cool class, full warlock advancement, you get to transform into a (dire)bear of choice at will, two daily quickened lightening AoE spells, summon direbear cavalry once a week, 4 energy resistances instead of two, track, and and some other cool stuff. it is full caster progression so you donít lose out on EB and invocations for taking that dip; so you might as well do it.

T.G. Oskar
2010-03-14, 12:32 AM
I should note about Sentinel of Bharrai (BoED69) warlock, there is an easier way to enter it than ruathar... you can take the "educated" feat at level 1 which makes all knowledges your class skills for all your classes, and gives a +2 to two of them of your choice. You can then enter it at level 7, for warlock 6/SOB10/more warlock

Sentinel of Bharrai is a really cool class, full warlock advancement, you get to transform into a (dire)bear of choice at will, two daily quickened lightening AoE spells, summon direbear cavalry once a week, 4 energy resistances instead of two, track, and and some other cool stuff. it is full caster progression so you donít lose out on EB and invocations for taking that dip; so you might as well do it.

Indeed, it is a good class...lots of skills (including Use Magic Device!), energy resistance, the ability to turn into a bear, resistance 10 to four energy types (all except sonic), quickened Call Lightning and Call Lightning Storm spells, and the ability to summon bears (DIRE bears!).

Except...how does a Chaotic Good Warlock follow a Vow of Obedience is clearly beyond my grasp. Completely, clearly, and definitely beyond my grasp. I mean, unless your powers come from a Fey (or perhaps Eladrin) and you keep your vow to them...

Oh, and recall it has a Vow. Lose the vow, it's irredemably lost and you lose about 10 levels. Think about that; that's almost as hilarious as a DM trying to make a Paladin fall.

Not bashing or anything; just nitpicking. Not to mention Stormwind Fallacy is almost proven here...

taltamir
2010-03-14, 02:37 AM
Except...how does a Chaotic Good Warlock follow a Vow of Obedience is clearly beyond my grasp. Completely, clearly, and definitely beyond my grasp. I mean, unless your powers come from a Fey (or perhaps Eladrin) and you keep your vow to them...
thats exactly how, be a chaotic good warlock who gets his powers from the fey or the eladrin