Cyber punk books

[toddex]

Just finished Neuromancer and now im looking for some other good cyber punk books!

[Erts]

Snow Crash.

Seriously, read it. I liked the creativity behind it more than in Neuromancer.

[Thanatos 51-50]

For a second, I thought you said "Boots" and I was all ready to link Cryoflesh.
But, yeah. Books. Snow Crash. Do it.

[Seraph]

snow crash, obviously.

[Seonor]

The Shockwave Rider by John Brunner.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Finish the trilogy: Neuromancer/Count Zero/Mona Lisa Overdrive

Snow Crash. It ROCKS!
The Diamond Age. Not quite as "cyberpunk," more to do with the next generation of technology after the Internet: Nanotech. Similar attitudes in the "criminal" class...

The Difference Engine: Steampunk. The reason people dress up in Victorian Fashions and wear Brass Goggles. :smallwink:

[JonestheSpy]

My personal opinion - Snow Crash is overhyped, a fun read but basically sci-fi junk food. A lot of interesting ideas, severe lack of followthrough, and tons o' cliches.

My idea of the absolute best cyberpunk is Gibson's early short stories, collected in Burning Chrome. And pretty much anything Bruce Sterling has written is worth checking out.

Shockwave Rider is pretty awesome as well, as is Michael Swanwick's Vacuum Flowers.

[Icewalker]

Snow Crash is a very fun book. Certainly not a deep book, but it works, and it works very well for what it is. And it's awesome.

[raitalin]

Its because of people like all of you that I was disappointed by Snow Crash. Not a bad book at all, but very obviously an author's early work when you read it.

Everyone else stole all my suggestions.

[Eldan]

When you read snow crash, just don't even try and make sense of the "science" involved.

[The Big Dice]

Burning Chrome. Gibson's finest work is short stories, not full length novels.

[Britter]

+1 for Burning Chrome. Very good stuff.

I also like Richard K Morgan's Altered Carbon. I don't know if it counts as cyber-punk, but it is dystopian noir sci-fi with a hard-bitten edge to it, and is a very enjoyable read.

[comicshorse]

'Mirrorshades' is a great collection of Cyberpunk short stories

[Weirdlet]

High Aztech. Utterly hysterical book.

[Mauther]

Another vote for Burning Chrome and add Globalhead its old but good. Snowcrash is fun and a good introduction to cyberpunk. Just realize that its the ho-ho of cyber.

Getting away from the biggies I'd recommend "Circuit of Heaven" by Dennis Danvers (society slipping into virtual reality) and "Infoquake" the first of the Jump225 trilogy by David Louis Edelman (programing bodies & reality itself).

[TheBibliophile]

I also like Richard K Morgan's Altered Carbon. I don't know if it counts as cyber-punk, but it is dystopian noir sci-fi with a hard-bitten edge to it, and is a very enjoyable read.

This. It's excellent, and I *think* it counts as cyberpunk.

Also, Snow Crash, most definitely. It is literally awesome (in the "awe-inspiring" sense) when you consider that it introduced the concept of avatars and the Internet years before either of those things actually existed.

Also, it has railguns. :smalltongue:

[Jerthanis]

This. It's excellent, and I *think* it counts as cyberpunk.

Also, Snow Crash, most definitely. It is literally awesome (in the "awe-inspiring" sense) when you consider that it introduced the concept of avatars and the Internet years before either of those things actually existed.

Also, it has railguns. :smalltongue:

Neuromancer had avatars and the internet too. It came out in 1984.

[Seonor]

This. It's excellent, and I *think* it counts as cyberpunk.

Also, Snow Crash, most definitely. It is literally awesome (in the "awe-inspiring" sense) when you consider that it introduced the concept of avatars and the Internet years before either of those things actually existed.

Also, it has railguns. :smalltongue:Neuromancer had avatars and the internet too. It came out in 1984.


Shockwave Rider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shockwave_Rider) is from 1975 and had also something similiar to the internet.

[Erts]

My personal opinion - Snow Crash is overhyped, a fun read but basically sci-fi junk food. A lot of interesting ideas, severe lack of followthrough, and tons o' cliches.



Snow Crash is a very fun book. Certainly not a deep book, but it works, and it works very well for what it is. And it's awesome.


Its because of people like all of you that I was disappointed by Snow Crash. Not a bad book at all, but very obviously an author's early work when you read it.



Agreed with these, regardless of my earlier suggestion. It's not deep, but it is fun and creative.

[The Big Dice]

Neuromancer had avatars and the internet too. It came out in 1984.

Neuromancer is where the term "cyberspace" was coined too.

[Brewdude]

In fact, when Microsoft trademarked the term "Cyberspace", William Gibson trademarked the term "Bill Gates".

Finish up gibson's stuff first, then read snow crash, then diamond age (it's sort of a sequel), then move on over to Cryptonomicon, and finally, Baroque cycle. Yeah, it's not cyberspace, but it iS math intensive, so it hits the same "nifty" factor.

[Revlid]

Snow Crash has already been recommended, multiple times, so I'll give a recommend to Halting State. A very good book.

[Cyrion]

The thing I liked about The Diamond Age over Snow Crash is the educational theory. In addition to the cool cyberpunk factor, Diamond Age takes a look at how constructivist educational theory, specifically Rousseau's version, could be implemented with modern technology. Like all the best "strict" science fiction, it's got a solid premise behind it that gets pushed beyond the here and now.

A couple of other recommendations-

Glass Houses by Laura Mixon
Library Journal Review:
A dystopian Manhattan of the next century is the setting for this tough, gritty sf debut featuring an agoraphobic salvage artist who uses virtual reality to connect her with the machines that face the world in her stead. Part cyberpunk, part mystery, Mixon's first novel introduces a lesbian heroine whose life is made up of second-hand encounters until reality comes calling with a vengeance. The author's razor-sharp prose catapults this story beyond the bounds of genre. Recommended for most sf collections.


Wetware by Rudy Rucker
Not quite as cyberpunky, perhaps, but still quite enjoyable. Amazon's review:
Humans created the sentient robot "boppers," but now it's the boppers who have started creating humans. Clones and DNA-splicing have spawned the meatbop, a human body infused with the software (the mind and personality) of a bopper. The meatbops are interested in propagating down on Earth, but that might not be so good for humanity (the boppers have a nasty habit of enslaving humans, actually). When a couple of (reasonably) innocent humans get tangled up in the bopper's machinations on the moon, it's time to drag out the stored mind of bopper-creator Cobb Anderson and see if he can help.

It's definitely not Gibson's immediate style of writing, but it's a fun read.

Modular Man by Roger McBride Allen
A crippled man transfers his mind into a robot (has vaccuum cleaner actually), and the robot gets arrested for murder. His wife, crippled in the same accident, is a lawyer who ends up doing the defense. The premise may start out sounding absurd, but this is an excellent look at what makes us "human." It's not as flashy as Gibson in the writing, but I think it's far meatier. I've read almost everything recommended so far on this thread, and this is by far my favorite among all the recommendations here.

[toddex]

I am 150 pages into Count zero and I have to say, I am very bored. The only story that has interested me is the actual count zero segment. The other two are ... boring... whats up with this meek female ? Molly would kick her ass up and down the street. One of the reasons I really liked Neuromancer was because it had a strong female character.

[JonestheSpy]

Molly would kick her ass up and down the street. One of the reasons I really liked Neuromancer was because it had a strong female character.

You probably want to keep reading...

[FoeHammer]

Snow Crash has already been recommended, multiple times, so I'll give a recommend to Halting State. A very good book.

THIS! This so many times over... The first and best cyberpunk book I read. If you like that some of his more space opera sci-fi is even better. He is also responsible for the only work I am aware of in which a secret agent battles Elder Gods. IT IS THAT AWESOME.

[Deth Muncher]

...huh. I read Snow Crash before I even knew what Cyberpunk was. Looking back...yeah, it's kinda like that.

[King_of_GRiffins]

On the topic of books in the genre, I'm curious in making a sort of 'man to machine' transformation as one of the themes in a cyberpunk game I want to get running in the future. Are there any in particular which also deal with cyborg type folk? Anyone who goes off and replaces say, an arm with a machine? I'm curious in making a sort of 'man to machine' transformation as one of the themes in a cyberpunk game I want to get running in the future.

[JonestheSpy]

On the topic of books in the genre, I'm curious in making a sort of 'man to machine' transformation as one of the themes in a cyberpunk game I want to get running in the future. Are there any in particular which also deal with cyborg type folk? Anyone who goes off and replaces say, an arm with a machine? I'm curious in making a sort of 'man to machine' transformation as one of the themes in a cyberpunk game I want to get running in the future.

Long before there was "cyberpunk", the late great Roger Zelazny wrote some wonderful short stories about cyborg types. Very clearly a progenitor to cyberpunk not just because of the technology but thematically as well. Kinda halfway between Gibson and Hemingway.

"Halfjack" and "The Engine at Heartsprings Center" are about cyborgs, one intentional, one not. "Permafrost" and "24 Views of Mt. Fugi, by Hokusai" are both about the melding of a human with computer. And "Home is the Hangman" and "For a Breath I Tarry" (one of my favorite stories of all time, ever ever) are about articificial intelligences evolving toward actual humanity.

All these stories are conveniently collected in the 2002 antholgy The Last Defender of Camelot, which is somewhat different from the 1980 collection of the same name (the earlier one is missing Fuji and Permafrost, but has a lot of other amazing stories).

[imp_fireball]

Snow Crash is obviously among the best of the cyberpunk novels, because it could actually be made into a movie.

Some of the others don't make sense almost half the time, hence they couldn't really see any chance of being made into movies.

Like neuromancer for example has a dozen flashbacks that I felt were unnecessary.

I enjoyed the descriptions, but I didn't really get what the main character's motives were. He decides to hunt a rogue AI called Wintermute, okay I got that... but, like, everything else?

The ending was also sorta half-expected/half not. Wintermute ascends to higher level of virtual reality where it is essentially a net god and no longer concerns itself with mortal affairs.

How do the other books tie in? I understand that it's all the same universe, but is there any relevance at all?


Molly would kick her ass up and down the street. One of the reasons I really liked Neuromancer was because it had a strong female character.

Oh, feminist literature... will it ever die the death it deserves? :smallsigh:

Seriously, Molly was interesting because she was human, not because she's a woman who happens to be some kind of urban samurai with metallic nails and mirror shades fused to her face for absolutely no reason. :smalltongue:

Well I mean, that is interesting. But not because she's a woman. Maybe because she's hawt too.


... the girl with the gymnast body.

xD

[JonestheSpy]

Snow Crash is obviously among the best of the cyberpunk novels, because it could actually be made into a movie.



Somebody please tell me this was a satirical statement. Sometimes I just don't know if my Sarcasm Detector is working or not.

[toddex]

Snow Crash is obviously among the best of the cyberpunk novels, because it could actually be made into a movie.

Some of the others don't make sense almost half the time, hence they couldn't really see any chance of being made into movies.

Like neuromancer for example has a dozen flashbacks that I felt were unnecessary.

I enjoyed the descriptions, but I didn't really get what the main character's motives were. He decides to hunt a rogue AI called Wintermute, okay I got that... but, like, everything else?

The ending was also sorta half-expected/half not. Wintermute ascends to higher level of virtual reality where it is essentially a net god and no longer concerns itself with mortal affairs.

How do the other books tie in? I understand that it's all the same universe, but is there any relevance at all?



Oh, feminist literature... will it ever die the death it deserves? :smallsigh:

Seriously, Molly was interesting because she was human, not because she's a woman who happens to be some kind of urban samurai with metallic nails and mirror shades fused to her face for absolutely no reason. :smalltongue:

Well I mean, that is interesting. But not because she's a woman. Maybe because she's hawt too.



xD


No one is talking about feminist literature here, gender blindness will never exist because we arent some crazy asexual race from star trek.

Anyway I really didnt point out molly being a woman as a big factor to her character, just said I hate female characters who are all poor me shinji style and prefer female characters who kick butt and handle their own ****. Honestly you could take the female characters out of that statement and it still stands.

[bosssmiley]

The Demon Download cycle. Kim Newman does cyberpunk/alt history for Games Workshop. Better (and a lot weirder) than it sounds.

Related: Cyberpunk Reading List (http://people.cs.ubc.ca/~harrison/Cyberpunk/cyberpunk.html) (Wow, does that ever take me back... :smallcool: )

[Mauther]

Related: Cyberpunk Reading List (http://people.cs.ubc.ca/~harrison/Cyberpunk/cyberpunk.html) (Wow, does that ever take me back... :smallcool: )

The list you reference highlights something I thought when I first saw this thread. Most of the "great" cyberpunk books seem to come from the late 80's early 90's. What good cyber has been written in the last say 5 years? I've certainly read some (another plug for Edelman's Jump225 series starting with Infoquake), but I can't think of anything massive Neuromancer or Burning Chrome.

[raitalin]

The list you reference highlights something I thought when I first saw this thread. Most of the "great" cyberpunk books seem to come from the late 80's early 90's. What good cyber has been written in the last say 5 years? I've certainly read some (another plug for Edelman's Jump225 series starting with Infoquake), but I can't think of anything massive Neuromancer or Burning Chrome.

More recently the sci-fi community has moved on to nanopunk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanopunk) and biopunk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopunk).

[comicshorse]

Posted by Bosssmiley

The Demon Download cycle. Kim Newman does cyberpunk/alt history for Games Workshop. Better (and a lot weirder) than it sounds.


Seconded. I thought I was the only who who remembered those. Do you know if he ever finished the series ?

[bosssmiley]

Posted by Bosssmiley



Seconded. I thought I was the only who who remembered those. Do you know if he ever finished the series ?

United States Calvary - the last of the Demon Download Cycle - was never produced. Shame that.

Wikpedia (caveat lector) mentions there were some DF novels released in 2005-06. I'm assuming they're not all Kim Newman pen names...

Golgotha Run by Dave Stone
American Meat by Stuart Moore
Jade Dragon by James Swallow
Reality Bites by Stuart Moore

[latwPIAT]

...you people are aware that Snow Crash is a parody, right?

And that The Diamond Age is so post-cyberpunk Stephenson had the cyberpunk arrested and executed on page 37? Sure, they're great books (Cryptonomicon fanfic? I'd never...), but if you're looking for "something like Neuromancer" they're the exact opposite...

[Kuma Da]

He is also responsible for the only work I am aware of in which a secret agent battles Elder Gods. IT IS THAT AWESOME.

I know we're I'm getting a little off-topic here, but two words. Delta. Green. Also "The Atrocity Archives" and "The Jennifer Morgue" by Charles Stross.

As for cyberpunk recc's, Zelazney's "24 views from mount fuji" is a fantastic read. Or, if you're looking for something a little less made of paper, "System Shock", while not a book, could be well worth your time.

[FoeHammer]

Also "The Atrocity Archives" and "The Jennifer Morgue" by Charles Stross..

Those are the works to which I was referring.

[imp_fireball]

No one is talking about feminist literature here, gender blindness will never exist because we arent some crazy asexual race from star trek.

Anyway I really didnt point out molly being a woman as a big factor to her character, just said I hate female characters who are all poor me shinji style and prefer female characters who kick butt and handle their own ****. Honestly you could take the female characters out of that statement and it still stands.

Well, in western fantasy/sci-fi fiction there's plenty of those kinds of women already out there (as far back as James Bond femme fatales), so its nothing new. Not so sure about eastern (haven't read much manga).


More recently the sci-fi community has moved on to nanopunk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanopunk) and biopunk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopunk).

None of that's new. Cyberpunk remains distinctive because it focuses on the urban impact of fantastic science fiction technology.


...you people are aware that Snow Crash is a parody, right?

Dammit, yes. But it's a satire. Not a direct parody of anything.


Somebody please tell me this was a satirical statement. Sometimes I just don't know if my Sarcasm Detector is working or not.

It's not funny enough to be sarcasm. Seriously, if have a penalty to your wisdom score, there's no need to show it off. :smallannoyed:

The way it reads is like a movie. The dialogue is so realistic that the characters are alive enough to be portrayed in a cinematic sense very easily without any creative direction (apart from the author).

Also, a lot of the scenes simply need to be put on screen. Very difficult to visualize otherwise.




Sniper: There's five guys on a boat heading toward us.

Boom.

Sniper: Now there's four guys.

Boom.

Sniper: Three. They're turning around now.

Boom. A fireball erupts 200 meters away.

Sniper: Now there's no boat.

Everyone else: Lol.



we arent some crazy asexual race from star trek.

I just commented on Molly's hawtness, thus contradicting your assumption of my assumption. :smallamused:

[Cyrion]

On the topic of books in the genre, I'm curious in making a sort of 'man to machine' transformation as one of the themes in a cyberpunk game I want to get running in the future. Are there any in particular which also deal with cyborg type folk? Anyone who goes off and replaces say, an arm with a machine? I'm curious in making a sort of 'man to machine' transformation as one of the themes in a cyberpunk game I want to get running in the future.

You really, really need to find a copy of Modular Man. The main characters are a man who has transferred his whole consciousness into a machine and a woman who is crippled and bed-ridden and interacts with the world through a remote control body.

[King_of_GRiffins]

You really, really need to find a copy of Modular Man. The main characters are a man who has transferred his whole consciousness into a machine and a woman who is crippled and bed-ridden and interacts with the world through a remote control body.

Done and done. I've since ordered that book, as well as a few others:

Nueromancer/Count Zero/Mona Lisa Overdrive
Shockwave Rider
The difference Engine (steampunk)
Burning Chrome
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
Altered Carbon
High Aztech
Global Head
Halting State
The Diamond Age
Modular Man
Last Defender of Camelot

Hopefully, that should provide a rather comprehensive list. Right now I'm reading through nueromancer, since I got that first, and will next read through Modular Man. Thanks to folks for providing all of the suggestions :smallsmile:

[JonestheSpy]

It's not funny enough to be sarcasm. Seriously, if have a penalty to your wisdom score, there's no need to show it off. :smallannoyed:


Now now, personal attacks are frowned on, hm?

That aside, I find the idea of judging a book "better" than others because it might translate to film easier to be quite laughable, actually. That's why I thought/hoped you were maybe joking.

[raitalin]

...you people are aware that Snow Crash is a parody, right?

And that The Diamond Age is so post-cyberpunk Stephenson had the cyberpunk arrested and executed on page 37? Sure, they're great books (Cryptonomicon fanfic? I'd never...), but if you're looking for "something like Neuromancer" they're the exact opposite...

If Snow Crash is a satire its much worse than I thought.

[chaosgirl]

I am 150 pages into Count zero and I have to say, I am very bored. The only story that has interested me is the actual count zero segment. The other two are ... boring... whats up with this meek female ? Molly would kick her ass up and down the street. One of the reasons I really liked Neuromancer was because it had a strong female character.

Oh...

Molly's still around...