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View Full Version : [3.5]Why is prestidigitation considered so good?



Shadowbane
2010-03-20, 10:31 PM
I don't get it. Can someone explain to me why this cantrip is thought of as so good? I look at it and...nothing comes to mind.

Aron Times
2010-03-20, 10:36 PM
It's very useful. With a single spell, you can clean your clothes, your house, and even yourself. You can also use it to heat or chill drinks, season food, and many other useful applications. It lasts an hour per casting, which is more than enough time to get your chores done without lifting a finger (other than to cast the spell itself).

Eldariel
2010-03-20, 10:39 PM
It's Mini Wish. On level 0. Honestly, it does almost anything. If you think even for 10 seconds, you'll come up with at least a dozen uses. I don't think it really needs an explanation.

Shadowbane
2010-03-20, 10:43 PM
Well, it's more like these little things it does aren't really that good, are they? The most creative thing I've ever seen someone do is dig a hole by "cleaning" the ground so many times, which I suppose was pretty smart.

EDIT: I hate typos.

Sir Homeslice
2010-03-20, 10:45 PM
dig a whole by "cleaning" the ground so many times, which I suppose was pretty smart.

Dig a whole what?

Yuki Akuma
2010-03-20, 10:47 PM
It's the most useful cantrip in the entire game (without metamagic tricks). Really, there's nothing else to do with your level 0 spell slots.

Kaiser Omnik
2010-03-20, 10:49 PM
It's the most useful cantrip in the entire game (without metamagic tricks). Really, there's nothing else to do with your level 0 spell slots.

Not even detect magic and read magic (let's say you have no scroll or wand with these spells)?

BenTheJester
2010-03-20, 10:50 PM
Well, it's more like these little things it does aren't really that good, are they? The most creative thing I've ever seen someone do is dig a whole by "cleaning" the ground so many times, which I suppose was pretty smart.

It's not a game breaker. It's just really good for a cantrip.

Cuaqchi
2010-03-20, 10:52 PM
It can kill vampires. Seriously.

The party I was DMing used it to polish some stones to a reflective shine and then used their makeshift mirrors along with the monks speed to bathe the vampire's casket in daylight.

Jergmo
2010-03-20, 10:53 PM
Complete Mage has some new stuff for prestidigitation etc. expansion upon current uses. For example, if you use it to dampen yourself and your clothing, you gain fire resistance 2.

Kaiser Omnik
2010-03-20, 10:54 PM
It can kill vampires. Seriously.

The party I was DMing used it to polish some stones to a reflective shine and then used their makeshift mirrors along with the monks speed to bathe the vampire's casket in daylight.

So it can defeat a medusa too!

Deth Muncher
2010-03-20, 10:55 PM
Complete Mage has some new stuff for prestidigitation etc. expansion upon current uses. For example, if you use it to dampen yourself and your clothing, you gain fire resistance 2.

O_o How the balls did I miss that?

Shadowbane
2010-03-20, 10:57 PM
Complete Mage has some new stuff for prestidigitation etc. expansion upon current uses. For example, if you use it to dampen yourself and your clothing, you gain fire resistance 2.

Wow. Ok, I have to take a look at that.

Deth Muncher
2010-03-20, 10:57 PM
Wow. Ok, I have to take a look at that.

Yeah, can we get a page number on that?

Jergmo
2010-03-20, 11:10 PM
Alright, sorry about that - I got mixed up. It's not from Complete Mage, it's Fun With Prestidigitation (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707) from Tome and Blood.

Deth Muncher
2010-03-20, 11:16 PM
Alright, sorry about that - I got mixed up. It's not from Complete Mage, it's Fun With Prestidigitation (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707) from Tome and Blood.

Ah. Well, it's up on the Interwebbertubernets. That, coupled with it not being reprinted, means it's fair game.

ZeroNumerous
2010-03-20, 11:18 PM
IIRC, it can increase the temperature of an object by 35 degrees per casting. Thus, with a sufficiently large amount of tungsten, one could theoretically start a fusion candle that ignites the planet's atmosphere with a mere 100 items of on-use Prestidigation(about 200,000 gold).

But as said before: People find it useful for a cantrip that remains useful throughout your levels. The only thing that compares to that is Detect Magic.

Jergmo
2010-03-20, 11:18 PM
Ah. Well, it's up on the Interwebbertubernets. That, coupled with it not being reprinted, means it's fair game.

Well, Tome and Blood and the other books like it aren't fair game anymore due to most of their stuff being reprinted in the Complete books. But, Fun with Prestidigitation still works, yeah.

Deth Muncher
2010-03-20, 11:22 PM
Well, Tome and Blood and the other books like it aren't fair game anymore due to most of their stuff being reprinted in the Complete books. But, Fun with Prestidigitation still works, yeah.

Right, that's the bit I meant. You undermeant what I stood, so it's all well and good. /accidental rhyming

Hand_of_Vecna
2010-03-20, 11:27 PM
It's great for alot of things. In a recent game I had a prankster sorceror who hid in a corner while using prestidigitation to turn objects pink, make all the food taste like pork, create small fragile obviously magical pig ornaments and lead a PC on a chase by making pig sounds for him to follow.

It doesn't win epic battles it's just an awesome an versatile spell.

Kris Strife
2010-03-20, 11:30 PM
IIRC, it can increase the temperature of an object by 35 degrees per casting. Thus, with a sufficiently large amount of tungsten, one could theoretically start a fusion candle that ignites the planet's atmosphere with a mere 100 items of on-use Prestidigation(about 200,000 gold).

But as said before: People find it useful for a cantrip that remains useful throughout your levels. The only thing that compares to that is Detect Magic.

Assuming the average 4 person party with standard WBL, that can be done between 10th and 11th level. Is there a lower level way to kill all life on a planet?

ZeroNumerous
2010-03-20, 11:33 PM
Assuming the average 4 person party with standard WBL, that can be done between 10th and 11th level. Is there a lower level way to kill all life on a planet?

Aside from obvious things(Pun-Pun, 1d2 Crusader, other ways of Infinite damage being dealt to the planet): Major Creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/majorCreation.htm) + Eschew Material Components = Anti-osmium. Doable at 9th level for a wizard.

Deth Muncher
2010-03-20, 11:36 PM
Aside from obvious things(Pun-Pun, 1d2 Crusader, other ways of Infinite damage being dealt to the planet): Major Creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/majorCreation.htm) + Eschew Material Components = Anti-osmium. Doable at 9th level for a wizard.

Or do it with the aforementioned Tungsten.

Xzeno
2010-03-20, 11:43 PM
I never understood the fixation with Prestidigitation was myself. Sure, it's useful for things like staying clean, but come on, no one cares about that anyway. All the conversations I've had about the spell have gone something like this:

"...and, you can move half a squares worth of caltrops per round."
"So?"
"Per round."

Kelb_Panthera
2010-03-21, 12:28 AM
Prestidigitation is made of awesome and win. It has virtually no combat application whatsoever but in any other situation it's hilariously fun. Anytime one of my characters has a 900gp burning a hole in his pocket I get a custom item of prestidigitation if I can. I then use that item to stitch up the hole all that gold burned into my pocket :smalltongue:

Sliver
2010-03-21, 12:36 AM
Wait! Wait.. Wait...

In some of my RL games some players insisted their character should eat only kosher and that it made sense somehow.. What will happen if someone makes their food taste like pork?

Eurus
2010-03-21, 12:38 AM
Wait! Wait.. Wait...

In some of my RL games some players insisted their character should eat only kosher and that it made sense somehow.. What will happen if someone makes their food taste like pork?

It's still not actually pork, so no problem?

sonofzeal
2010-03-21, 12:42 AM
Wait! Wait.. Wait...

In some of my RL games some players insisted their character should eat only kosher and that it made sense somehow.. What will happen if someone makes their food taste like pork?
Absolutely nothing, beyond give them a good scare. It's not actually pork, now is it?*



*no pigs were harmed in the casting of this spell

Sliver
2010-03-21, 01:05 AM
Absolutely nothing, beyond give them a good scare. It's not actually pork, now is it?*



*no pigs were harmed in the casting of this spell

If they get scared when they taste pork.. They knew how pork tastes like!

lsfreak
2010-03-21, 01:11 AM
Once cast, a prestidigitation spell enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour.
A lot of people overlook this and think that each casting does one thing. Each casting lasts and hour, and lets you do an hours worth of stuff.

Easily cover your tracks (gather some of the dust in an area to the area of your footprints), or make tracks in dust or dirty (via cleaning a boot-shaped area on the ground).

Chill/warm to distinguish items apart, such as vials of potions or rods when you're running around with 20 of them on you at once. Also potentially able to keep a tent nice and cool in the desert, or warm in the arctic.

Warm a bath. Cool a bath as a joke. Cold beer in the desert. Microwave your cold broth without risking a bright fire.

Keep yourself clean at all times. Alternatively, dirty up your clothing so it's not so obvious you just came from the banquet where someone was killed.

Flavor the dry grass to taste like something great. Keep yourself from getting too hungry; sure it's not healthy, but it's filling. Alternatively, a great joke to play on the uptight aristocrat; everything they eat tastes of dung, or perhaps their wine goblet is suddenly irresistibly delicious and they spend the whole time just sucking at the edge.

Sketch for short-term markers - like for marking the correct path to go for the person 20 minutes behind you, but not for the pursuing mercenary troop a few hours distant. Make a sign by turning one thing into something else - a pebble becomes a coin making a trail, which vanishes after a short time.

Make yourself look extravagant by transmuting a bunch of pebbles into rings. Turn a bunch of pebbles into mundane but workable ammunition.

Moisten dried food to make it more palatable. Dry someone's food to torment them. Dry a handful of salt water to get salt. Dry food so you don't have to wait weeks or months for it to dry itself. Dry some local plant for recreational use. Dry wood in a swamp to make it ignite. Dry a place to sleep in the swamp.


It's still not actually pork, so no problem?
Judaism has a long-standing tradition of going to what the law is trying to get at, not the mere letter of the law. This has actually come up IRL thanks to pork-flavored - but otherwise kosher - snacks. Some/many practicing Jews would say that this violates the spirit of the food laws, if not the letter, and is not acceptable.

Dilb
2010-03-21, 01:12 AM
IIRC, it can increase the temperature of an object by 35 degrees per casting. Thus, with a sufficiently large amount of tungsten, one could theoretically start a fusion candle that ignites the planet's atmosphere with a mere 100 items of on-use Prestidigation(about 200,000 gold).

But as said before: People find it useful for a cantrip that remains useful throughout your levels. The only thing that compares to that is Detect Magic.

Atmosphere's don't ignite IRL, so why would they in D&D? Besides, to actually get fusion going requires a temperature of at least 1 million Kelvin, and to produce any great amount of power requires more like 1 billion Kelvin. The core of the sun produces less heat per volume than a person does. Tungsten boils at 5828 Kelvin, so it's not going to help you start a fusion reaction anyway.

Rainbownaga
2010-03-21, 01:16 AM
Wait! Wait.. Wait...

In some of my RL games some players insisted their character should eat only kosher and that it made sense somehow.. What will happen if someone makes their food taste like pork?

How would they know what pork tasted like if they hadn't cheated before, eh?

Kallisti
2010-03-21, 01:17 AM
To echo the sentiments of most of the above, Prestidigitation has few solid practical uses but is immense fun. It lets a caster pull off all the little magical miracles you'd expect, like always being magically clean even after going through a swamp or conjuring music from the air to amuse children. Or you can do what many players do, which is spend an hour having immature fun by recoloring the rest of the party in polka-dots. Or otherwise goofing off.

Tl;dr prestidigitation is only practically useful for stuff like recoloring a soldier's uniform or recreating a foppish dandy's signature perfume, but it's a fun toy.

WarKitty
2010-03-21, 01:22 AM
How would they know what pork tasted like if they hadn't cheated before, eh?

Depends on their background, e.g. I'm a vegetarian but I know what bacon tastes like because I wasn't raised as a vegetarian.

Deth Muncher
2010-03-21, 01:25 AM
Wait! Wait.. Wait...

In some of my RL games some players insisted their character should eat only kosher and that it made sense somehow.. What will happen if someone makes their food taste like pork?




Judaism has a long-standing tradition of going to what the law is trying to get at, not the mere letter of the law. This has actually come up IRL thanks to pork-flavored - but otherwise kosher - snacks. Some/many practicing Jews would say that this violates the spirit of the food laws, if not the letter, and is not acceptable.

As the only open Jew on the forum (that I've seen, at least), I guess I'll try my hand at this one. To the best of my -albeit limited- knowledge, pork is trayf (that is, un-kosher) because pigs are "unclean." As in, they roll around in brown icky substances that may or may not just be mud. Other such things fall that fall in this category: any bottom-feeding animal (catfish, shrimp, etc) because they generally eat other animals' filth; crustaceans of any sort, as, again, not only do they eat filth, but I'm pretty sure that what you're actually eating when you eat them is solidified body fluids from the cooking process.

Other than that, y'know, there's a bunch of other crazy things, like not eating milk products and meat at the same time (I think you can eat meat first, then milk-stuff, but not the other way around).

And, like yeah. That's enough Heberanting. Point being, why oh why do the kosher dietary laws exist in your campaign? Do your characters not already have enough problems?

Also, an apology to Roland, as this may have veered a bit onto Real World Religion, but as it's discussing dietary customs, I hope talking about kosher things is, well...kosher. :P

Optimystik
2010-03-21, 01:34 AM
Even the awesomeness of prestidigitation can't stop a pointless religious side-discussion from taking root.

And yes, it is called "mini-wish" (or perhaps "limited limited wish") for a reason.

If you soil someone's food should they roll a fort save vs. disease?

Deth Muncher
2010-03-21, 01:37 AM
Even the awesomeness of prestidigitation can't stop a pointless religious side-discussion from taking root.

And yes, it is called "mini-wish" (or perhaps "limited limited wish") for a reason.

If you soil someone's food should they roll a fort save vs. disease?

More like fort save vs. spitting it out, I'd think. I mean, it could be very clean soil. :P

Brigham
2010-03-21, 01:40 AM
A question:

(sorry if it's been answered)

Suppose someone keen on cleanliness uses prestidigitation daily in place of a bath and has it such that the duration extends past the next casting (24hr duration, character casts it every 12).

What happens a year from now when the spell lapses for some reason (character falls asleep, unconscious, etc.)?

Can you imagine how ripe that character would be after a year of fake-bathing? :smalltongue:

Math_Mage
2010-03-21, 01:41 AM
A question:

(sorry if it's been answered)

Suppose someone keen on cleanliness uses prestidigitation daily in place of a bath and has it such that the duration extends past the next casting (24hr duration, character casts it every 12).

What happens a year from now when the spell lapses for some reason (character falls asleep, unconscious, etc.)?

Can you imagine how ripe that character would be after a year of fake-bathing? :smalltongue:

Cleaning an object doesn't wear off when Prestidigitation does.


Any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour.

So, that character will smell just fine.

Magnor Criol
2010-03-21, 01:50 AM
I think that both Prestidigitation's charm to many people and confusion to others lies in the fact that other than the numbers in the stat block itself, the spell has few measurable, numerical quantifiers. It's a very open-ended spell, that's bounded by your creativity, not by any ability you have to tweak numbers. This makes it very powerful and fun in some players' hands, and very weak and useless to others.

Yahzi
2010-03-21, 02:01 AM
Prestidigitation:

Destroys the entire spice import industry.

Produces perfect dental hygiene.

Significantly impacts the dye industry.

Invents the dry-cleaning industry.

Invents distillation (brandy and whiskey instead of just beer, wine, and ale).

Other than that... I guess it doesn't do much.

krossbow
2010-03-21, 02:07 AM
Prestidigitation:

Destroys the entire spice import industry.

Produces perfect dental hygiene.

Significantly impacts the dye industry.

Invents the dry-cleaning industry.

Invents distillation (brandy and whiskey instead of just beer, wine, and ale).

Other than that... I guess it doesn't do much.


Well, its not like conjure food and conjure water don't destroy agriculture, wall of iron doesn't destroy the mining industry, ect.

Wizards running lose really should have collapsed the economy several times over really.

Tinydwarfman
2010-03-21, 02:12 AM
Well, its not like conjure food and conjure water don't destroy agriculture, wall of iron doesn't destroy the mining industry, ect.

Wizards running lose really should have collapsed the economy several times over really.

No, but it should.

Devils_Advocate
2010-03-21, 07:00 AM
Prestidigitation is unlikely to directly assist in killing things and taking their stuff, but a lot of people still like it for the flavor.

Get it?


Point being, why oh why do the kosher dietary laws exist in your campaign? Do your characters not already have enough problems?
Maybe someone was playing a Wu Jen? They're specifically required to have personal taboos which may or may not make any sense. Might as well borrow something from the real world for that.


More like fort save vs. spitting it out, I'd think. I mean, it could be very clean soil. :P
Yeah, I'd rule that it just creates dirt, not bacteria. Although extra-clean dirt could have uses of its own. ... Not that I can think of any.


Well, its not like conjure food and conjure water don't destroy agriculture
Man what? Create food and water cast by a fifth level Cleric feeds 15 humans for a day... and costs 150 frickin' gp. No, not to cast, to have cast for you. Because you're probably not a fifth level Cleric. On the other hand, three good meals each for 15 humans costs 225 sp.

Slayn82
2010-03-21, 07:25 AM
Well, i remember seeing an old Dragon Magazine article for second edition (AD&D) that expanded prestidigitation, allowing wizards to use it as a skill, and gave a few usefull abilities for each school. Those were reprinted in the Tome and Blood, but those left outside included:

Divination: Find the North, detect the gender of target creature.

Necromancy: Animate Tiny undead, as mice and bats. Those things had 1-2 HP, and you could animate one per caster level.

Conjuration: Creating any small itens, with the resistance of bamboo.(ok, thats technically around).

Of course, the change/transmutation power of being able to turn a coin into the key to open that locked chest is always usefull. Or at least, its a good way to obtain some proper tools for any skill check. And if you use disguise to colour your clothes, you can obtain a +2 bonnus to your Hide checks.

Also, if you are invisible, you can interact with your friends by using prestidigitation to make some points or auras to give them some notion of where you are. Or even leave blue footprints around, wherever you step. Or you can soil the ground, to allow people an observation check to see where an invisible enemy is (determine the square, chance of missing hits still aplicable).

And making ties is a surprising usefull way to end grapple contests.

The Dark Fiddler
2010-03-21, 07:41 AM
Man what? Create food and water cast by a fifth level Cleric feeds 15 humans for a day... and costs 150 frickin' gp. No, not to cast, to have cast for you. Because you're probably not a fifth level Cleric. On the other hand, three good meals each for 15 humans costs 225 sp.

Set up tons of traps of Create Food and Water obviously.


Chill: You reduce the temperature of an object by about 40 F, but never below freezing (32 F). After an hour the object's temperature returns to normal.

Obviously you find something with a freezing point above 32 degrees Fahrenheit and you can freeze it.


Sketch: You create a two-dimensional visual figment of whatever you desire. You can leave the image hanging in the air, in which case it is immobile, or place it on a mobile object, such as a shield. The image can be no more than 1-foot square, and it lasts a maximum of 1 hour.

Obviously great for con-men trying to sell famous paintings.


Color: You bring color to an object. You can restore faded hues or give it a new color. If you add color, it must be from the visible spectrum (red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, or violet). You cannot change an object's pattern, such as adding or removing stripes or polka dots, but you can change the color in a pattern so that, for example, a blue garment with white stripes becomes green with yellow stripes.

Lucky it mentioned from the visual spectrum or you'd have Cantrip Invisibility. That doesn't end when you attack.

Lycanthromancer
2010-03-21, 09:05 AM
If they get scared when they taste pork.. They knew how pork tastes like!Pork tastes like human.

And eating other humans is technically kosher.

graeylin
2010-03-21, 09:12 AM
i might be missing something, but aren't a lot of these "uses" illegal by RAW, since other spell effects are being duplicated?

Starbuck_II
2010-03-21, 09:27 AM
Pork tastes like human.

And eating other humans is technically kosher.

I'm afraid to ask, but how do you know how human taste?

Lycanthromancer
2010-03-21, 09:32 AM
I'm afraid to ask, but how do you know how human taste?There was a talk-show host that had a chunk of his hindquarters surgically removed, then roasted and ate it on the air.

Secondhand knowledge, but Knowledge is Power! Go Joe!

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w274/willzweigart/the_more_you_know.jpg

Starbuck_II
2010-03-21, 09:34 AM
Doesn't that just mean human butt taste like pork?

Sliver
2010-03-21, 09:37 AM
Judaism has a long-standing tradition of going to what the law is trying to get at, not the mere letter of the law. This has actually come up IRL thanks to pork-flavored - but otherwise kosher - snacks. Some/many practicing Jews would say that this violates the spirit of the food laws, if not the letter, and is not acceptable.

Depends on who you ask, really. One of my teachers (Coming from a not religious class in a religious school with half Russian (not religious) teachers) liked to tell us stories about Hebrews that followed all the rules and traditions, but in a sort of RAW abusing way, like bypassing the rule against not being allowed to drink alcohol on a certain day by injecting it into oranges, and therefore eating alcohol, not drinking it. I liked that teacher.. :smallamused:

Lycanthromancer
2010-03-21, 09:47 AM
Doesn't that just mean human butt taste like pork?With fava beans and a nice Chianti.

the_archduke
2010-03-21, 09:50 AM
Well, i remember seeing an old Dragon Magazine article for second edition (AD&D) that expanded prestidigitation, allowing wizards to use it as a skill, and gave a few usefull abilities for each school. Those were reprinted in the Tome and Blood, but those left outside included:

Divination: Find the North, detect the gender of target creature.




Is this where half-dragons come from?

Volkov
2010-03-21, 09:59 AM
Is this where half-dragons come from?

No the half-dragon comes after that.

Darth Stabber
2010-03-21, 02:33 PM
detect the gender of target creature.



Does it detect biological sex, or gender identity? Because that spell could give worse than no info.

Gerrtt
2010-03-21, 02:48 PM
In the first game I ever played in the party wizard used prestidigitation to lift 1 pound of lava and drop it on a troll. I don't know if it's legit or if I'd allow it, but the DM let him do it.

I mean, how much damage does 1 pound of lava do? We know how much total immersion does, but not 1 pound dropped on the subject.

It does say in the spell description that "it" (the spell) can't do damage or interrupt spellcaster's concentration, but it doesn't say anything about the effects of your actions doing so.

Swordgleam
2010-03-21, 03:15 PM
As the only open Jew on the forum (that I've seen, at least), I guess I'll try my hand at this one. To the best of my -albeit limited- knowledge, pork is trayf (that is, un-kosher) because pigs are "unclean."

Howdy neighbor! You have it half right - pigs are a special exemption due to uncleanliness, since otherwise they'd be kosher. But everything else follows specific rules - creatures of the sea have to have fins and scales (hence no shrimp), insects can't be swarming, land animals have to have cloven hooves and chew their cud four times, and I forget the rule for birds but I believe you're not supposed to eat predators.


(I think you can eat meat first, then milk-stuff, but not the other way around).


Based on my background (raised as a conservative jew) you have this backwards. You have to wait 1 hour after eating dairy to eat meat, and 3 hours after eating meat to eat dairy.


Pork tastes like human.

And eating other humans is technically kosher.

Wrong. Humans don't have cloven hooves or chew our cud four times.

In answer to the pork taste question: I stopped keeping kosher three years ago, have been doing my utmost to make up for lost time, and I still don't know what pork tastes like. It's the most bland meat in the world.

JohnnyCancer
2010-03-21, 03:56 PM
My transmuter used it in a Pathfinder adventure path to make a guard's fancy hat smell like sulpher, which attracted some of the town's resident imp pests to pester him to distraction.

Lycanthromancer
2010-03-21, 04:10 PM
Wrong. Humans don't have cloven hooves or chew our cud four times.And bats aren't birds, camels don't have cloven feet, hares aren't ruminants, and you can't eat any animal whatsoever without consuming at least some blood.

What's your point?Now let's stop talking about this (as it's getting remarkably close to breaking the rules), and start talking about prestidigitation.

Swordgleam
2010-03-21, 04:23 PM
And bats aren't birds, camels don't have cloven feet, hares aren't ruminants, and you can't eat any animal whatsoever without consuming at least some blood.

What's your point?Now let's stop talking about this (as it's getting remarkably close to breaking the rules), and start talking about prestidigitation.

As far as I know bats and camels aren't kosher, and kosher meat is specifically prepared to avoid blood.

Prestidigitation rocks. It especially helps in enhancing bluffs. Have some minor magical effects going on while you're trying to convince someone you're scary, and you're good. Plus, insta-forgery for those banquet invitations you don't have.

The Deej
2010-03-21, 04:25 PM
My group has (possibly as a houserule) used it do the following:

DM: You have slain the dragon and found his horde. It's a massive pile of mixed coins and gems
Wizard: Prestidigitation. I count all of it (instantly)
DM: There is X platinum, Y gold, and Z silver, along with A, B, and C of 3 types of gems.

holywhippet
2010-03-21, 04:33 PM
During one game a player had his half-elf ranger/sorcerer on the run from an angry mob who were tracking him with dogs. I took a look at his list of spells to see if I could suggest anything and noticed how versatile presdigitation seemed to be and suggested using it to produce some kind of sound/light show to distract the mob. Instead he pulled a piece of meat out from his supplies and used the spell to give it a very strong scent so the dogs would be distracted by it.

Really, it's the kind of spell that's only limited by your imagination.

Draxar
2010-03-21, 04:33 PM
As the only open Jew on the forum (that I've seen, at least), I guess I'll try my hand at this one. To the best of my -albeit limited- knowledge, pork is trayf (that is, un-kosher) because pigs are "unclean." As in, they roll around in brown icky substances that may or may not just be mud. Other such things fall that fall in this category: any bottom-feeding animal (catfish, shrimp, etc) because they generally eat other animals' filth; crustaceans of any sort, as, again, not only do they eat filth, but I'm pretty sure that what you're actually eating when you eat them is solidified body fluids from the cooking process.

Other than that, y'know, there's a bunch of other crazy things, like not eating milk products and meat at the same time (I think you can eat meat first, then milk-stuff, but not the other way around).

And, like yeah. That's enough Heberanting. Point being, why oh why do the kosher dietary laws exist in your campaign? Do your characters not already have enough problems?

Also, an apology to Roland, as this may have veered a bit onto Real World Religion, but as it's discussing dietary customs, I hope talking about kosher things is, well...kosher. :P

On the matter of dietary laws, both real world and therefore I'd say in character, there's also the thing that a lot of religious dietary laws make very good practical sense in the situations they arose from – as well as being feeders of filth, pigs, shrimp and so forth go off far quicker than other types of meat/fish, especially in warm climates.

Thus a possible place to start with 'Why does this character have these taboos' can be 'Because they made good sense in a particular situation and their god/whatever, therefore told them to do it that way'.

As an example, in a world where Taint from Heroes of Horror/Book of Vile Darkness exists, if there are tainted areas that tend to have similar appearances, or other ways to gain taint, there may be taboos/religious laws based around that.

Shalist
2010-03-21, 04:48 PM
I'm sorry that this post is about prestidigitation, and thus completely off topic, but...I challenge the people of this board to figure out how to use prestidigitation to travel backwards in time.

On a side note, that "heating things up" bit caps at 140 degrees. That could still be pretty dang useful in extreme environments--chilling your water in a nasty desert, or to turn snow into hot chocolate (or yellow slushies that don't taste like urine..."of course its safe to eat the yellow snow, you can trust me!")...

Heck, forget survivability...with a few 900g trinkets, you could probably open up a spa or hot springs at the north pole :P

Slayn82
2010-03-21, 08:14 PM
Well, prestidigitation heats anything a certain amount of heat, independently of that substance's specific heat. Thats a pretty good way to get a lot of Work done with that kind of hability if you know your physics.

Also, the old divination effect of prestidigitation used to give specifically the "biological" sex genre, including strangely hermafroditism. And could be fooled by shapechange/metamorfosis.:smalleek:

Other effect of divination was finding hidden doors, with exactly the same chance the caster would have, including the same time. That would allown the caster to search another area, and double the speed.

Abjuration had the power of repelling small insects in a 3feet dome (no mosquitoes, insects, rats or other vermim), and the power of animate small objects to execute some activity they were adequate outside of combat. A broom would make cleaning, a pen would write, a shovel would dig, a bucket would remove water from a well. Yes, just like Phantasia. Or if you didnt had the utensils at hand, you could creat ghostly versions of them.

Evocation caused - lights, glows, sparks and other things. Yes, you could spark to death those mosquitos.

Conjuration could summon small creatures, like common insects, non poisonous spiders, and small snakes (and now you control your mosquitos). Common objects weighting no more than 1 pound could be permanently summoned/created, and items up to 5 pounds disapeared when the spell ended. Also, you could use your power to summon arcane forces to annoy people. Small things, like light slaps, pulling clothes, small scratches.

Alteration effects is mostly of those transcribed by the Players handbook. Of note, is that you could transmute matter on the same kingdom, for instance, turning an spider into a beetle or a mouse. Or turning those coins into rings.

Enchantment got both the power of moving objects, as described, or causing one creature to execute some small minor action, like sneezing, smile, fart, scratch self, laugh or blink. Nothing that could disturb their concentration.

Illusion cantrips could create small odors, sounds and images. Also could change the facial apearance of one creature, create bidimensional ilusions or generate illusory furniture. Any visual illusion could be destroyed by being touched.

And the other necromantic effects were: 1) to cause dead bodies to move slightly and in a sinister manner, with lights glowing on their eyes - good for a scare. And 2) To make every undead in 20 mts ( 66 ft) to be aware of your presence. They reacted as they wanted, that didnt influence their actions at all.

Riffington
2010-03-21, 08:22 PM
http://www.baconsalt.com/buy/kosher.php

Radiun
2010-03-21, 08:31 PM
At a trial?
Someone you know is guilty about to walk off scott free?
High level magics monitored but low-level magic fine?

Why, I do think his shirt could be warmer, much warmer. Let's make him sweat, pull that collar a bit to ventilate.

RebelRogue
2010-03-21, 09:16 PM
It's the most bland meat in the world.
I beg to differ!

Tinydwarfman
2010-03-21, 11:48 PM
I've always wanted to make a wizard with arcane thesis on prestidigitation, and went around shouting UNCLEAN!!! As he cast quickened chained twinned Prestidigitation. (with appropriate 0th metamagics and level reducers of course.)

Lord Vukodlak
2010-03-22, 12:13 AM
So it can defeat a medusa too!

Gaze attacks can't be reflected but you could use it to make some mirrors fairly quickly to combat the medusa's.

One odd use for Prestidigitation I heard was a living Prestidigitation spell to clean the sewers of major cities.

quiet1mi
2010-03-22, 01:18 AM
hmmm... Arcane Thesis prestidigitation... Would that mean you would have a silent and still prestidigitation for a single feat!?

I think there is much potential for this.

lsfreak
2010-03-22, 10:19 AM
I've always wanted to make a wizard with arcane thesis on prestidigitation, and went around shouting UNCLEAN!!! As he cast quickened chained twinned Prestidigitation. (with appropriate 0th metamagics and level reducers of course.)

You don't need to do that. Casting Prestidigitation lets you accomplish any of those things for the next hour.

Nich_Critic
2010-03-22, 10:42 AM
My players found an orc on their ship, with some powder kegs and tinder twigs. One of the players threw an alchemical substance on the guy, which splashed to the kegs (but otherwise wouldn't have caused an explosion). Then the bard used prestidigitation on the kegs to create a small trickle of smoke, and bluffed the guy to get out of the way. Once dismissed spell later and they'd saved the ship.

Petrocorus
2010-03-22, 11:30 AM
Other than that, y'know, there's a bunch of other crazy things, like not eating milk products and meat at the same time (I think you can eat meat first, then milk-stuff, but not the other way around).


Wait, that mean that sandwich, or hamburger, or pizza are forbidden because they include both cheese and meat?

Fitz10019
2010-03-22, 11:47 AM
Prestigitation is the reason that coins are differentiated by metal AND size/imprints/ridginess. Just in case some Blackleaf makes the spell work IRL.

Sliver
2010-03-22, 11:51 AM
Wait, that mean that sandwich, or hamburger, or pizza are forbidden because they include both cheese and meat?

Hamburger lack cheese, not being cheeseburgers. Fish instead of sausages is OK (fish not being meat.. Personally never got it so don't ask) and sandwiches can be without both.

Kobold-Bard
2010-03-22, 02:42 PM
:smallbiggrin: Firefinger finally exists, I've been doing that for years and the DM keeps looking at me dubiously.

Also making guys looked like they've wet themselves is hilarious, especially when it's the BBEG and he's monologuing

Yahzi
2010-03-22, 03:05 PM
Well, its not like conjure food and conjure water don't destroy agriculture, wall of iron doesn't destroy the mining industry, ect.
Conjure food is a 3rd level spell. Assuming the cleric gets it as his domain spell, it still requires a 5th level guy for every 30 people. That seems like an unreasonable ratio. And worse, the food is stated to be nourishing but bland. People are not gonna settle for meatloaf 365 days a year.

Wall of Iron does destroy mining... except that it requires an 11th level wizard. Chances are, 11th level wizards actually have better things to do with their time.

Prestidigitation, on the other hand, can be done by apprentices.

lsfreak
2010-03-22, 03:15 PM
Conjure food is a 3rd level spell. Assuming the cleric gets it as his domain spell, it still requires a 5th level guy for every 30 people. That seems like an unreasonable ratio. And worse, the food is stated to be nourishing but bland. People are not gonna settle for meatloaf 365 days a year.

A resetting trap of create food and water, with a resetting trap of prestidigitation. A *single* trap at minimum caster level covers the daily food and water requirements of over 200,000 people.

CoffeeIncluded
2010-03-22, 03:20 PM
Hamburger lack cheese, not being cheeseburgers. Fish instead of sausages is OK (fish not being meat.. Personally never got it so don't ask) and sandwiches can be without both.

It's because back then if you wanted a cheeseburger, you slaughtered the cow and made cheese from the milk of a (Most likely related) cow, since they're all from the same tribe, not from different farms like nowadays. And they realized that cooking veal in its mother's milk is kinda messed up.

Back on topic, Prestidigitation is pretty much only limited by imagination. And it's great for pulling pranks. :smallamused:

Toliudar
2010-03-22, 03:47 PM
For me, Prestigiditation is great for all those little theatrical things that Masters of the Arcane Arts should be able to do. Light candles with a wave of the hand. Make a coin appear behind someone's ear. Rustle your cloak and have it be clean and dry again. Cool stuff that doesn't break the game, but makes the RP aspects much more fun.

Kobold-Bard
2010-03-22, 03:48 PM
http://www.frontiernet.net/~jamesstarlight/CantripsOrisons.html

Technically 2Ed I think, but each of these Cantrips would make a good Prestidigitation effect I think.

Ishcumbeebeeda
2010-03-22, 04:01 PM
I'll be honest and say that I didn't read all the responses, so I'm sorry if someone's already said something like this but in one RL game I was in I had a sorcerer character with prestidigitation, and I decided that one of the things it should reasonably be able to do is change one smallish object of one material into a similar material for the duration of the spell. Like one mineral into another... like copper into platinum. Fortunately for my character's coin purse and unfortunately for the rest of the party, my DM agreed. And had banks in his world. My CN (changeling) sorcerer got rich at the small small cost of getting the entire party kicked out of a.... continent.:smallbiggrin: (and for anyone who may have been paying attention because of some odd OCD problem, yes, this is a copy-paste from a different thread:smalltongue:)

HenryHankovitch
2010-03-22, 04:05 PM
Wall of Iron does destroy mining... except that it requires an 11th level wizard. Chances are, 11th level wizards actually have better things to do with their time.I].

Additionally, the price of (mined) iron may not be higher than the component cost for casting Wall of Iron...especially once wizards start casting Wall of Iron for money. Depending on your setting, peasants are definitely more widespread than 11th level wizards are.

And besides, it's not like you have spells for Wall of Tin, Wall of Coal, Wall of Silver, Wall of Mercury, Wall of Ammonia...

Kobold-Bard
2010-03-22, 04:08 PM
Additionally, the price of (mined) iron may not be higher than the component cost for casting Wall of Iron...especially once wizards start casting Wall of Iron for money. Depending on your setting, peasants are definitely more widespread than 11th level wizards are.

And besides, it's not like you have spells for Wall of Tin, Wall of Coal, Wall of Silver, Wall of Mercury, Wall of Ammonia...

Silver maybe not (material that has a mechanical effect), but the rest are easy to homebrew.

Swordgleam
2010-03-22, 05:01 PM
It occurs to me that it's got to be a lot easier to poison someone if you can make the poison taste and smell like anything you want, or nothing at all.

HunterOfJello
2010-03-22, 05:44 PM
It occurs to me that it's got to be a lot easier to poison someone if you can make the poison taste and smell like anything you want, or nothing at all.

Chloroform that smells like bubble gum!

Drascin
2010-03-22, 05:59 PM
Really, it's not a combat spell. But it takes care of infinity little out-of-combat tasks, freeing you to carry more useful stuff. It makes food taste good, so you can just pack the jerkiest jerky with no flavor at all but which lasts approximately forever. It takes care of cleaning, so, just right back from killing orcs but don't want to cause a bad impression on the Duke you're asking for reinforcements? Don't worry, Prestidigitation's got your back. Need to hide your tracks but you're in a hurry? Just cast prestidigitation and let the spell calmly sweep around the area like an invisible butler!

So, mostly, it's good because it has dozens of little uses, and it's in a spell level where there's exactly one other worth it spell (Detect Magic).

Deth Muncher
2010-03-22, 06:05 PM
It occurs to me that it's got to be a lot easier to poison someone if you can make the poison taste and smell like anything you want, or nothing at all.

A: What's in that?
B: Cyanide.
A: Cyanide?
B: And happiness!
A: Happiness? I'll take two!

Kobold-Bard
2010-03-22, 06:07 PM
A: What's in that?
B: Cyanide.
A: Cyanide?
B: And happiness!
A: Happiness? I'll take two!

I would be fairly suspicious if someone was offering my a bottle etc. of Happiness.