Create Trap + invisible spell

[jiriku]

So, if one creates a trap using the create trap spell in Races of the Dragon, and applies the Invisible Spell metamagic feat, the resulting trap apparatus is invisible. Invisibility generally applies a +40 DC to spot an inanimate object, but what (if anything) would it apply to the Search check to find a created trap?

I'm inclined to give it the full +40, making invisible create trap traps very hard to find indeed. I'm thinking this is not so gamebreaking since the spell can only be used to create temporary CR 1 traps, but I'm concerned about the precedent, and its possible impact on verisimilitude. What if my players start wanting to apply invisibility to every trap they create? And if making your traps invisible is so great, wouldn't everyone do it?

[Mastikator]

Invisible spell doesn't work on permanent effects or things or creatures. Says so right in the feat description.
So I take it that create trap has a non-permanent duration?

[Jack_Simth]

Invisible spell doesn't work on permanent effects or things or creatures. Says so right in the feat description.
So I take it that create trap has a non-permanent duration?

Umm... my copy of Cityscape does not have that clause in the feat (page 61). Was there errata?

So, if one creates a trap using the create trap spell in Races of the Dragon, and applies the Invisible Spell metamagic feat, the resulting trap apparatus is invisible. Invisibility generally applies a +40 DC to spot an inanimate object, but what (if anything) would it apply to the Search check to find a created trap?

I'm inclined to give it the full +40, making invisible create trap traps very hard to find indeed. I'm thinking this is not so gamebreaking since the spell can only be used to create temporary CR 1 traps, but I'm concerned about the precedent, and its possible impact on verisimilitude. What if my players start wanting to apply invisibility to every trap they create? And if making your traps invisible is so great, wouldn't everyone do it?

Exactly as listed? Absolutely none. If I was feeling generous, I might pull up the Blinded (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#blinded) condition only applies a -4 penalty to Search checks, and use that.

[jiriku]

Invisible spell doesn't work on permanent effects or things or creatures. Says so right in the feat description.
So I take it that create trap has a non-permanent duration?

Correct. The conjured trap has a duration of 12 hours.

[HunterOfJello]

yeah, you would create an invisible trap

[jiriku]

Exactly as listed? Absolutely none. If I was feeling generous, I might pull up the Blinded (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#blinded) condition only applies a -4 penalty to Search checks, and use that.

OK, -4 I can work with. This provides a measurable benefit without providing a bonus so enormous that it begs for exploitation.

[HunterOfJello]

Blinded character, "takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class, loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), moves at half speed, and t-4 penalty on Search checks and on most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks. All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Spot checks) automatically fail."


*edit*

scratch that you use search for traps

[Jack_Simth]

Blinded character, "takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class, loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), moves at half speed, and t-4 penalty on Search checks and on most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks. All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Spot checks) automatically fail."


*edit*

scratch that you use search for traps

???
Your quote mentions Search - explicitly.

[jiriku]

Aha. Found rules for invisible traps in Dungeonscape. -20 to Search, -10 to Disable Device. Reading my books FTW!

[Jack_Simth]

Aha. Found rules for invisible traps in Dungeonscape. -20 to Search, -10 to Disable Device. Reading my books FTW!

Interesting... so it's easier to find an invisible trap if you're blinded, by 80%? Very interesting.

[Darrin]

... applies the Invisible Spell metamagic feat

...and you pretty much have to stop right there. Absolutely no good can come from anything that follows.

[jiriku]

Well, I know that game rules need no justification and all...

But log-ic-ally...if you're blinded, you'll rely heavily on your sense of touch when searching, because you know you can't see. However, if you can see but the trap is invisible, you'll tend to believe what your eyes are telling you: you're less likely to carefully explore a surface by feel when your eyes are telling you there's nothing there.



...and you pretty much have to stop right there. Absolutely no good can come from anything that follows.

I have two words for you, Darrin....
Tucker's. Kobolds.

[quiet1mi]

Invisible Pit Traps!!!!