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View Full Version : . . .Too Badass? (World of Darkness)



Ravens_cry
2010-03-22, 02:14 AM
A friend of mine is working on a world of darkness campaign and we are all bikers who hunt monsters. Nice. Any way, I had an idea for a back story that while searching for his lost son, little boy who liked to run around the back woods, he found the vampire feeding on his son. Now it turns and runs at him and he dispatches it with a load of buckshot to the face. And this was his awakening. Is this conceivable? Could this happen in the world of darkness world that a bad ass mortal could take out a real weak, real hungry, Vampire? Alone?
Or am I going down the path of Marty Stu?
Dark side that is, not want that I do.

Deca
2010-03-22, 02:22 AM
With a full shotgun blast to the face? Probably.

Harperfan7
2010-03-22, 02:25 AM
You just asked if a shotgun blast to the face would kill something.

Ravens_cry
2010-03-22, 02:27 AM
You just asked if a shotgun blast to the face would kill something.
It's a vampire. I don't know what will kill a WoD vampire.

Sir Homeslice
2010-03-22, 02:28 AM
Of course it's Marty Stu.

Having a character that's effective in a fight is totally unrealistic and only rollplaying cancers to the sacred art of Role-Playing ever make themselves useful in a fight.

Sarcasm aside, one shotting a newbie idiot Vampire with a shotgun blast or two to the face is a perfectly reasonable task and in no way at all makes your character a Marty Stu.


It's a vampire. I don't know what will kill a WoD vampire.

WoD is extremely glass cannon.

HunterOfJello
2010-03-22, 02:28 AM
if i lived in a world that had vampires, i'd hunt with one of these at the very least

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4GXyqEANP0

Harperfan7
2010-03-22, 02:47 AM
It's a vampire. I don't know what will kill a WoD vampire.

I know. I was just providing some perspective and a little humor.

Ravens_cry
2010-03-22, 03:21 AM
I know. I was just providing some perspective and a little humor.
So was I. Well, except the humour part. But thanks. Thank you all for your responses. They have been most helpful.:smallsmile:

Quincunx
2010-03-22, 03:37 AM
Even if it's not conceivable to kill a vampire at full health, who's to say it wasn't wounded and carelessly feeding because it was desperate? You also leave a shiny, baited plot hook for your Storyteller if the vampire's wounds were obviously unnatural because (spooky lighting dims) there's more than one monster out there. (It also leaves another shiny, baited hook if, in fact, a shotgun is not sufficient to kill a healthy vampire in one shot--but you don't know that.)

Delta
2010-03-22, 03:49 AM
If the vampire was hungry and hadn't yet completely fed on his son, then I'd say it's pretty conceivable, yes. Without blood, a vampire wouldn't have access to many of its supernatural powers like superhuman speed or especially regeneration.

Can't speak for oWoD here, but killing a VtR vampire with a shotgun and two or three really lucky rolls is definitely possible.

Shinizak
2010-03-22, 04:31 AM
Try saying the recoil forced it into sunlight when you shot it, shooting someone usually doesn't force an awakening, but seeing something unusual (like a murderer dissolve in sunlight) might.

Totally Guy
2010-03-22, 04:34 AM
So lets say the shot knocked it out (bludgeoning damage after all). It wouldn't show any signs of life even then. It's possible that the character simply drew the wrong conclusion from the situation.

Maybe whilst the vampire was unconscious the sun cam up and turned the body to dust. Then he'd know there was something supernatural afoot.

Delta
2010-03-22, 04:41 AM
Try saying the recoil forced it into sunlight when you shot it, shooting someone usually doesn't force an awakening, but seeing something unusual (like a murderer dissolve in sunlight) might.

The problem with this would be that WoD vampires wouldn't be able to walk around during daytime at all, not even in the shadow, barring very rare circumstances.

Innis Cabal
2010-03-22, 05:17 AM
Try saying the recoil forced it into sunlight when you shot it, shooting someone usually doesn't force an awakening, but seeing something unusual (like a murderer dissolve in sunlight) might.

The other problem being gun's don't work that way.

Shinizak
2010-03-22, 05:20 AM
The other problem being gun's don't work that way.

Bah, who needs logic when you DICE!

horngeek
2010-03-22, 05:21 AM
The other problem being gun's don't work that way.

If you're stunting, they work any damm way you say they do. :smalltongue:

Of course, I don't play WoD. I play Exalted, where said shotgun is probably called Five Suns Reckoning and is capable of killing a god in one shot, never mind the poor vampire. :tongue:

GolemsVoice
2010-03-22, 05:32 AM
You could say you shot it in the face good, but it STOOD up and stumbled towards you and your son. But even Vampires need most of their face intact to function, so it didn't get you and you were able to run away. But you're SURE that no normal man could take this form of punishment and still try to get you afterwards.
It also opens the posibility of the Vampire not being dead, and seeking revenge. Lock up your children, my friend.

Selrahc
2010-03-22, 05:34 AM
Vampires are pretty good at handling bullets. You'd actually be more likely to kill one by swinging an axe at it. Still, Vampires who don't focus on combat aren't much harder to kill than humans if taken unawares, so there is definitely no problem with shooting one even if it does play into the vampires strengths. A starving vampire takes lethal damage every day, which can leave one in the precarious position of being heavily wounded and without the vitae to heal themselves.

It may be important to note torpor. The fact that when vampires take a beating that would kill an ordinary human they in fact sink into a coma/deathlike like state for a few months. If you're in need of antagonists the vampire could well have been left for dead and then rescued.

Quincunx
2010-03-22, 05:35 AM
I assumed that the whole 'seeing the abomination suck the life out of your nearest and dearest' scene would have taken care of the awakening. It sure put calling your ex-wife a bloodsucker into perspective.

Glug tied another hook onto the line. Is it biker habit to check for a pulse and, after finding none, just leave the 'body' where it drops, out in the backwoods? No need to call the cops and bring trouble down on your own head. Suppose you could have buried it out there, if you were feeling generous. [EDIT: I forgot about starvation rules. Burying the body may actually kill it if it's good and torpored.]

Selrahc
2010-03-22, 05:50 AM
[EDIT: I forgot about starvation rules. Burying the body may actually kill it if it's good and torpored.]

Eventually the vampire will wake up. Starvation damages you to near death, then puts you in torpor. Torpor is the only form of natural healing available to vampires with the vampire waking up from Torpor with all but 1 health filled with lethal damage and that filled with bashing. The kind of health where a stiff breeze could take them down.

J.Gellert
2010-03-22, 06:11 AM
It's not a Marty Stu if his son is dead.

Mary Stu is not about how badass you are, it's about everything going your way.

And a shotgun blast to the face would kill the WoD vampire good. I think that seeing a rotten "corpse" with fangs feasting on your child's blood is enough for an awakening, sunlight or no sunlight, but whatever works for you...

If anything, that kind of backstory where monsters kill your kids may be a bit "cliche", but then, you are bikers. So that's awesome.

Riffington
2010-03-22, 06:20 AM
Decapitation kills vampires.
A shotgun at close range is capable of decapitating a vampire (or human) if you hit them just right.
It's not unrealistic - you just got lucky.

Faleldir
2010-03-22, 06:51 AM
If it takes two headshots, that's definitely an awakening.

GolemsVoice
2010-03-22, 06:56 AM
Another idea, have it be a particulary ugly-looking vampire, Nosferatu-like. So you not only saw a man molesting your child, but some ugly hellspawn that definitely wasn't quite human.

grautry
2010-03-22, 08:05 AM
It's possible and in no way makes you a Marty Stu.

Anyway, traditionally vampires getting shot in NWoD = bashing damage. But a vampire shot in the head suffers lethal damage.

So, let's look at this mechanically.

Let's assume that's an average vampire with 7 health levels. You're a moderately badass dude with Dex 3 and Firearms 3. Your shotgun gives you 9-again and 4 bonus dice. Since this is an emotional moment, you spend a willpower point to get 3 bonus dice. Let's also assume that I'm forgetting some another modifier or you get a circumstantial bonus for surprise or something else for another 2 dice.

This gives you 15 dice to shoot with. Assuming my math is correct, this gives you 0.36 successes per dice(or, somewhere around this, the exact number doesn't matter that much)

Average? 5.4 lethal levels of damage, no problem. Assuming you rolled a little bit better than usual, you fill it with lethal - and therefore drive it into torpor - instantly. And if not - the second shot will do it, certainly.

Once the vampire is down from the initial salvo, it can easily be assumed that you emptied the rest of your ammo into it in a fit of rage. This will certainly destroy the vampire, no matter how much it heals.

Anyway, besides mages who are laughably overpowered when used right, NWoD supernaturals are generally reasonably powered and killing one in a straight up combat is certainly within the realm of possibility for a sufficiently badass mortal(especially if the supernatural himself is not suited for combat).

pasko77
2010-03-22, 08:28 AM
It's possible and in no way makes you a Marty Stu.

Anyway, traditionally vampires getting shot in NWoD = bashing damage. But a vampire shot in the head suffers lethal damage.

So, let's look at this mechanically.

Let's assume that's an average vampire with 7 health levels. You're a moderately badass dude with Dex 3 and Firearms 3. Your shotgun gives you 9-again and 4 bonus dice. Since this is an emotional moment, you spend a willpower point to get 3 bonus dice. Let's also assume that I'm forgetting some another modifier or you get a circumstantial bonus for surprise or something else for another 2 dice.

This gives you 15 dice to shoot with. Assuming my math is correct, this gives you 0.36 successes per dice(or, somewhere around this, the exact number doesn't matter that much)

Average? 5.4 lethal levels of damage, no problem. Assuming you rolled a little bit better than usual, you fill it with lethal - and therefore drive it into torpor - instantly. And if not - the second shot will do it, certainly.

Once the vampire is down from the initial salvo, it can easily be assumed that you emptied the rest of your ammo into it in a fit of rage. This will certainly destroy the vampire, no matter how much it heals.

Anyway, besides mages who are laughably overpowered when used right, NWoD supernaturals are generally reasonably powered and killing one in a straight up combat is certainly within the realm of possibility for a sufficiently badass mortal(especially if the supernatural himself is not suited for combat).

Yes the math is correct, but we assume that:
1) the vampire is a total moron, or a newbie, or has some incapacitating flaws (i.e. is temporarily frenzied, or out of blood, or whatever).
2) the vampire is not combat oriented (or Fortitude would soak enough to let them retaliate) while the human is at least moderately proficient.

Given these, or a lot of luck, yes, it's possible.

grautry
2010-03-22, 08:43 AM
1) the vampire is a total moron, or a newbie, or has some incapacitating flaws (i.e. is temporarily frenzied, or out of blood, or whatever).

The story does say that the vampire was feeding on his son.

That's like surprising someone in the middle of sex(as feeding is supposed to be OMG awesome for vampires). It's kind of easy to get a drop on someone who's distracted like that.

And, duh, of course it's a total newbie. Do you really think an elder would go skulking around a forest looking for food? Nah, he'd have a ready-made harem of victims that comes to him.


2) the vampire is not combat oriented (or Fortitude would soak enough to let them retaliate) while the human is at least moderately proficient.

Vampires are mainly social monsters.

The physical ones will be far rarer than the social ones. In the grand scheme of things, would you rather have a supernatural power that lets you mind control someone or survive one more bullet?

Anyway, assuming that the vampire doesn't put a mind-whammy on him the instant after getting shot(which would kind of get monstrous circumstantial penalties, considering you're a monster that just fed on his son and you're trying to make nice) killing a vampire with one or two shots from the shotgun is very much in the realm of possibility.

GolemsVoice
2010-03-22, 09:32 AM
I really don't think we need to play this situation out. It's supposed to be backstory, so he did already manage it, and we all agree it it certainly possible.

Morquard
2010-03-22, 09:53 AM
As some have said vampires in WoD are pretty resilient to gunshots, they usually treat them as bludgeoning damage instead of lethal like everyone else.
The reason behind that is that they don't actually need those organs that get perforated by the bullets, like living beings do and therefor its not so bad for them.
However vampires need one thing: a head. Therefor aiming for the head with a gun or blunt object is usually treated as lethal damage. So a shotgun to the head will hurt really really bad, even a vampire.

Also decapitating a vampire means instant final death. He'll probably be dust before the corpse hits the ground. You could easily argue that a shotgun blast to the head does destroy enough of it to count as beheaded and poof.

In the background story thats all possible, in game itself aiming for the head brings about pretty hefty penalties to aim, so its not always useful there, but if it hits it would work for the same reasons.

Totally Guy
2010-03-22, 09:59 AM
Also decapitating a vampire means instant final death. He'll probably be dust before the corpse hits the ground. You could easily argue that a shotgun blast to the head does destroy enough of it to count as beheaded and poof.

I didn't know that. After all that time we spent lugging the headless "Corpse Marie" around with us in hopes she'd get better... Then we forgot to take her with us when blew up our own temporary haven. Oops.

Don't feel so bad now.:smallwink:

Fishy
2010-03-22, 10:08 AM
If it takes two headshots, that's definitely an awakening.

Rule #4, the Double Tap.

pasko77
2010-03-23, 04:28 AM
That's like surprising someone in the middle of sex(as feeding is supposed to be OMG awesome for vampires).

Yes this bit of the background always made me roftl... :smallsigh:

comicshorse
2010-03-23, 04:53 AM
Or there is them option that your character didn't kill the vampire at all. It just used weird supernatural powers to implant the memory of you killing it while it walked away. BUT IT'S STILL OUT THERE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hadrian_Emrys
2010-03-23, 07:08 AM
Looking at the math again (from a MET stance as I seem to have lost my tabletop book):

3 dex
3 firearms
1 specialty (boomstick)
4 shotgun
-3 (called shot)
base 8

(To the best of my knowledge, Willpower is not applicable at the attack.)

If the vamp just woke up from an extended dirt nap, and just drained the kid dry, he'd be at 5 dots o'life (3 base + 2 stam). It'd be a pretty lucky set of rolls to lighten the leech's cranial load in one blow, but not so much that it is totally unbelievable. However, let's say he got the drop on the vamp by accident and got a shot off before the charge. A half confetti-faced Nos rushing your guy would be easy pickings for the second pull of the trigger, and more than enough for an awakening.