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View Full Version : Generalized Multiclass Feats [3.5, WIP, PEACH]



Fortuna
2010-03-28, 12:01 AM
Multiclassing is an interesting little topic. Although it is often used, the amount of generalized as opposed to specific support is minimal, particularly in the area of feats. We have feats for combining the core classes, and for combining other classes with the core classes, but what I feel is needed is a truly generalized method of generating multiclass feats. Hence, this idea. Notice that I'm still working, and I am only including classes that I have an idea of how to work with. If and when others post their own feat 'halves', I'll edit them into the main post and credit them. The ones that I've done so far are mostly determined by what I like and what ideas I've had: Archivist probably doesn't deserve it, but you guys will live.

Creating a multiclass feat

In general, a multiclass feat may be produced by selecting two classes, adding together their 'half' feats and prerequisites, and giving it a name comprising one class's adjective and the other's noun. In writing these 'half' feats I have used X to denote the class tied to the other half of the feat. Certain groups of classes are treated together, notably the martial initiators.

Classes

Archivist
Knowing/Scholar
Prerequisites: Dark Knowledge 4/day
Benefit: Your levels of archivist and X stack for the purpose of determining how many times per day you may use Dark Knowledge.

Barbarian
Furious/Berserker
Prerequisites: Rage 2/day
Benefit: Your levels of barbarian and X stack for the purpose of determining your Damage reduction, the number of times per day that you may Rage, and your Trap Sense bonus.

Bard
Inspired/Performer
Prerequisites: Inspire Competence
Benefit: Your levels of bard and X stack for the purpose of determining how many times per day you can use bardic music, as well as the bonus that your Inspire Courage and Inspire Competence abilities grant.

Cleric
Sacred/Initiate
Prerequisites: Able to cast second level cleric spells and domain spells
Benefit: Your levels of cleric and X stack for the purpose of determining the most powerful undead that you can affect with turning or rebuking, as well as the benefits of any domains that you may have access to (not including spells granted).

Druid
Wild/Hermit
Prerequisites: Trackless Step
Benefit: Your levels of druid and X stack for the purpose of determining how effective your Wild Empathy is, and half of your levels in X stack with your levels in druid for determining how powerful your animal companion is.

Fighter
Martial/Warrior
Prerequisites: Fighter level 3rd
Benefit: Your levels in fighter and X stack for the purpose of determining your fighter level for taking feats.
Special: Any feat which is made using this 'half' feat is a [Fighter] feat.

Martial Adept
Sublime/Tactician
Prerequisites: Ability to initiate at least 2 2nd level maneuvers
Benefit: Your full levels in X count towards your initiator level.

Monk
Ascetic/Disciple
Prerequisites: Still Mind
Benefit: Your levels in monk and X stack for the purposes of determining your unarmed strike damage and unarmored AC bonus. You may multiclass freely between monk and X.

Paladin
Devoted/Knight
Prerequisites: Divine Health
Benefit: Your levels in paladin and X stack for the purpose of determining your smite evil damage and the number of times per day that you may use smite evil. You may multiclass freely between paladin and X.

Ranger
Nature's/Tracker
Prerequisites: Combat Style
Benefit: Your levels in ranger and X stack for the purpose of determining how effective your Wild Empathy is, as well as for how large your Favored Enemy bonus is and how many Favored Enemies you have.

Rogue
Sneaky/Outlaw
Prerequisites: Sneak Attack +2d6
Benefit: Your levels in rogue and X stack for the purpose of determining how much extra damage you apply on sneak attacks.

Sorcerer
Potent/Arcanist
Prerequisites: Able to spontaneously cast 2nd level spells from the Sorcerer/Wizard list
Benefit: Your levels in sorcerer and X stack for the purpose of determining your caster level for spells gained through the sorcerer class, as well as for determining what abilities your familiar has.

Warlock
Fell/Fallen
Prerequisites: Eldritch Blast 2d6
Benefit: Your levels in warlock and X stack for determining your Eldritch Blast damage.

Wizard
Learned/Mage
Prerequisites: Able to cast prepared spells of 2nd level from the Sorcerer/Wizard list
Benefit: Your levels in wizard and X stack for the purpose of determining your caster level for spells gained through the wizard class, as well as for determining what abilities your familiar has.

arguskos
2010-03-28, 12:09 AM
Ooooooh. Took me a moment, but I got and liked it. Just to be sure, if I wanted to make an Archivist Bard, it would turn out like so:

Inspired Scholar
Prerequisites: Inspire Competence, Dark Knowledge 4/day
Benefit: Your levels of bard and archivist stack for the purpose of determining how many times per day you can use bardic music, as well as the bonus that your Inspire Courage and Inspire Competence abilities grant. Your levels of archivist and bard stack for the purpose of determining how many times per day you may use Dark Knowledge.

Yes? That is correct? Or would I only get one of the halves (ie. progression in only one thing)?

Fortuna
2010-03-28, 12:21 AM
Yes, that's right. Glad you like it.

arguskos
2010-03-28, 12:23 AM
Yes, that's right. Glad you like it.
Nice. I think you got the feel down just right, and I like it. Sorry I'm not more helpful, but yeah, I think these are really good.

Sereg
2010-03-28, 01:09 AM
Druid
Wild/???

Hermit?


Rogue
???/Outlaw

Sneaky?

Otherwise, very nice, but there's still classes that you're missing.

Fortuna
2010-03-28, 01:14 AM
Hermit?



Sneaky?

Otherwise, very nice, but there's still classes that you're missing.

Thanks, I've used your ideas.

I know that it's unfinished: that's what the WIP tag is for! I'll try to get some more done in the next little while, I'm just thinking about Sorcs and Wizards.

Volthawk
2010-03-28, 04:59 AM
Just something I noticed is that this works well with martial, but for casters it gets kinda weird.

Example, Sorcerer 5/wizard 5 takes Potent Mage. Now at ECL 10, they cast as a Sorcerer 10 and a Wizard 10.

Or if a Wizard 5/Cleric 5 takes Sacred Mage. At ECL 10, 10th level casting in both Cleric and Wizards.

It pretty much makes dual-progression classes useless, except for class features included.

boomwolf
2010-03-28, 05:33 AM
except it is only caster level and not actually casting. you don't get the spells.



Anyways, its a cute idea, but the problem is that there are many aspects of some of these classes that depend on level, and not necessarily the one you present is the one that the player wishes to advance.

So, for a generalized list. its not that generalized.

Volthawk
2010-03-28, 05:38 AM
except it is only caster level and not actually casting. you don't get the spells.


Oh, yeah. I misread it.

herbe
2010-03-28, 05:44 AM
Just something I noticed is that this works well with martial, but for casters it gets kinda weird.

Example, Sorcerer 5/wizard 5 takes Potent Mage. Now at ECL 10, they cast as a Sorcerer 10 and a Wizard 10.

Or if a Wizard 5/Cleric 5 takes Sacred Mage. At ECL 10, 10th level casting in both Cleric and Wizards.

It pretty much makes dual-progression classes useless, except for class features included.

Only for caster levels. -> you dont get additional spell slot. So a wizard5/sorcerer5 can cast spell from socerer spell list as a 5th level socerer and cast spell from wizard spell list as a 5th level wizard but his caster level 10 in both class. Ahhh i was slow
Compare with this feat (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Improved_Caster_Level_(3.5e_Feat)) it should be a overpowered.
Maybe changed to familiar version would be better than add caster level.

Wizard could be scholar/mage

And there is some similar feats in Complete adventurer. Its usuable monk/ranger, monk/paladin, monk/socerer and monk/rogue. They are very useful.

Scow2
2010-03-28, 07:52 AM
Why did you connect Barbarians with Trap Sense? I think you should have gone Rage 2/day. Trap sense has a tendency to get replaced by ACF's.

Gan The Grey
2010-03-28, 08:36 AM
Shouldn't wizards just be Arcane/Mage?

The Dark Fiddler
2010-03-28, 08:38 AM
Wizard
???/Mage
Prerequisites: Able to cast prepared spells of 2nd level from the Sorcerer/Wizard list
Benefit: Your levels in wizard and X stack for the purpose of determining your caster level for spells gained through the wizard class, as well as for determining what abilities your familiar has.

Learned?

I really like the idea of these feats, and they seem pretty good so far, but I think the Monk feat should stack levels for Flurry too, and maybe even the AC bonus.

Rithaniel
2010-03-28, 09:19 AM
For the psionic-lover in all of us, you might wanna add...

Psion
Mnemonic/Mind
Prerequisites: Psion level 3
Benefit: Your levels in psion and X stack for the purpose of determining your manifester level, and your daily power points.

Wilder
Unstable/Scion
Prerequisites: Surging Euphoria +1
Benefit: Your levels in wilder and X stack for the purpose of determining your manifester level, and for your wild surge and surging euphoria bonuses.

Psychic Warrior
Psionic/Ascetic
Prerequisites: Psycic Warrior level 3
Benefit: Your levels in psychic warrior and X stack for determining your manifester level.

(Also, I'd run the martial adepts a little differently, since there might be things you'd rather get out of those classes, like the swordsages 'quick to act' bonus, or the crusaders 'delayed damage pool', it isn't necessarily just about the maneuvers)

awesome idea, btw

The Dark Fiddler
2010-03-28, 10:04 AM
For the psionic-lover in all of us, you might wanna add...

Psion
Pneumonic/Mind
Prerequisites: Psion level 3
Benefit: Your levels in psion and X stack for the purpose of determining your manifester level, and your daily power points.

Wilder
Unstable/Scion
Prerequisites: Surging Euphoria +1
Benefit: Your levels in wilder and X stack for the purpose of determining your manifester level, and for your wild surge and surging euphoria bonuses.

Psychic Warrior
Psionic/Ascetic
Prerequisites: Psycic Warrior level 3
Benefit: Your levels in psychic warrior and X stack for determining your manifester level.

I dunno about those, the Wilder feat is quite obviously better than the others (advancing effective Manifester level & class features) but I don't really know how to solve that (the others don't really have class features...). Maybe since the Psychic Warrior gets so few anyway, have it also advance either power points or powers known?


(Also, I'd run the martial adepts a little differently, since there might be things you'd rather get out of those classes, like the swordsages 'quick to act' bonus, or the crusaders 'delayed damage pool', it isn't necessarily just about the maneuvers)

I like this idea too, personally. If I weren't away from my group's only copy of ToB, I'd come up with what to do, but since I'm not...

I suppose the Warblade feat should advance effective fighter level for taking fighter feats.

Fortuna
2010-03-28, 12:17 PM
OK, I've taken many ideas. Those psionic feats worry me, however. Isn't the only thing limiting how much you can augment your manifester level and how many power points you have? I could see a Psion 3/X 17 being very happy indeed, unless I've missed some big point somewhere. Sure, you lose the high-level powers, but you still get more than the Wizard or Sorcerer.

The Dark Fiddler
2010-03-28, 12:26 PM
OK, I've taken many ideas. Those psionic feats worry me, however. Isn't the only thing limiting how much you can augment your manifester level and how many power points you have? I could see a Psion 3/X 17 being very happy indeed, unless I've missed some big point somewhere. Sure, you lose the high-level powers, but you still get more than the Wizard or Sorcerer.

Granted, a Psion 3/X 17 would only have 11 + bonus from high Int power points, so they wouldn't be able to fully augment more than one power.

Eurus
2010-03-28, 02:13 PM
But the feat says...


Psion
Pneumonic/Mind
Prerequisites: Psion level 3
Benefit: Your levels in psion and X stack for the purpose of determining your manifester level, and your daily power points.

The Dark Fiddler
2010-03-28, 02:18 PM
But the feat says...

Failed my spot check, sorry.

Maybe stunt the power point progression somehow?

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-03-28, 09:04 PM
Sorry to nitpick, but it's a pet peeve of mine:


Psion
Pneumonic/Mind

Pneumonic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumonic) deals with the lungs; mnemonic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemonic) deals with the mind.

Sereg
2010-03-29, 12:06 AM
Thanks, I've used your ideas.

Glad I could help.


I know that it's unfinished: that's what the WIP tag is for!

Sorry. Didn't notice the WIP tag.

Rithaniel
2010-03-29, 03:35 AM
Well, simply stuff: the idea's behind differences with the Psychic Warrior and Psion feats, is that a melee character has a lot more motivation to multiclass than the caster-y character. The caster-y character tends to stay in his own class so that he can get the shiney toys that he wants. So, to make a multiclass feat actually desirable for a caster-y character, it's gotta carry a bit more than the multiclass feat for the melee character. That's why the Psion feat progresses power points as well.

About manifester level, you might actually be right that it's too much to give it full. Course, with a psionic classes, you're gonna look for manifester levels. It's the biggest thing they lose when they multiclass, so, it'd be the best thing to let them keep with a multiclass feat.

Also, the Wilder has the worst list of powers out of all three classes (Psions get disciplines). That's why he got class feature progression too.


Pneumonic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumonic) deals with the lungs; mnemonic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemonic) deals with the mind.

Whoops. That'd be my bad *fixes*