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holywhippet
2010-04-06, 07:29 PM
The monk power Enduring Champion has the following movement technique: You move your speed + 2. Each time you are attacked during this movement, you gain a +1 bonus to speed until the end of your turn.

Now consider that, combined with the Endure Pain ability - until the end of your next turn, you gain resistance to all damage equal to 5 + your constitution modifier.

Line up several miles worthy of peasants and have the monk run past them. Each peasant takes an opportunity attack against the monk - but because of endure pain they do no damage at all. Each peasant's attack makes the monk gain +1 speed so if the monk moves past 1000 peasants, until they end of their next turn they have a movement speed of about 1006/1007.

Mando Knight
2010-04-06, 07:36 PM
Doesn't work. You can't apply a bonus from the same element more than once.

tcrudisi
2010-04-06, 07:41 PM
Doesn't work. You can't apply a bonus from the same element more than once.

Can you explain, please? If it's worded exactly how he says it is, then the ability allows itself to stack. It says that, basically, "Each time he is attacked, his speed increases by 1".

Or did you mean another part?

Swordgleam
2010-04-06, 07:42 PM
Doesn't work. You can't apply a bonus from the same element more than once.

That's true usually, but one of the core maxims of D&D is that specific overrules general. The power says "each time" so it obviously stacks.

Caphi
2010-04-06, 07:43 PM
Take a second move action with the increased speed, too.

NEO|Phyte
2010-04-06, 07:44 PM
Take a second move action with the increased speed, too.
Nononono, use the level 1 daily where you move your speed and make an attack against everyone you move adjacent to along the move.

Swordgleam
2010-04-06, 07:45 PM
Take a second move action with the increased speed, too.

Of course, you still need to line up peasants the whole way, not just half way, since otherwise you'd have no way of getting back.

Too bad characters can only take one OA per turn. Otherwise you could line up a couple peasants, run around them repeatedly, and then use your second move action to go infinitely far.

Are there any feats or items that get around the OA limit?

Reynard
2010-04-06, 07:49 PM
Nononono, use the level 1 daily where you move your speed and make an attack against everyone you move adjacent to along the move.

Yes, this.
Move 5000 feet with peasant's flailing at you, stop, turn, run 5000 feet back with one arm outstretched, clothes-lining 1000 peasants to death.

All within 12 seconds.

krossbow
2010-04-06, 07:49 PM
You're using thousands of peasants for a single attack.


while usable, the ridiculous requirements make it unfeasible for military use

tcrudisi
2010-04-06, 07:51 PM
Are there any feats or items that get around the OA limit?

As of books and magazines released pre-January? No. Since January? Maybe, but I doubt it.

Err, rather, there are some minor magic items which lets you use a daily item power to make a second opportunity attack (opportunistic blade or what-not), but that's a bad idea. You don't want the peasants to be using a magical blade, since they'll get max damage + the critical dice. That would eventually knock the monk out.

Tiki Snakes
2010-04-06, 08:09 PM
Well, the question is, when does the speed boost kick in? There's two options;

Firstly, the railgun reading; Everytime you are attacked you add a square to your movement.

Secondly, for every time you are attacked on the movement, you gain a point of speed. This could be 'cashed in' via any other way of using your speed, such as taking a second move action, or charging.

I'm pretty hazy on how things interact with moving, to be quite honest, so I could see either being the case, strictly speaking.

I suspect that the former reading is the RAW, actually. For the simple reason that it isn't likely to actually break the game at any point. You're really unlikely to ever GET a big line of obedient peasants. In a real game scenario, attempting to get attacked a dozen or so times is quite likely to backfire, really. And if you're not 'using' a line of declared low-level minions, that 1/20 critical hit is going to sting even through a damage reducing power.

If people actually do find some kind of exploit, it'll likely be patched pretty soundly. But till then, I think we might infact have found our new peasant railgun. Like the Railgun, it doesn't really do much outside of theory. :smallsmile:

Some kind of Monk-Mail service, perhaps? (It's just that all it delivers is badly bruised monks. What, you think that because they work on a farm, that they're all going to be minions?)

krossbow
2010-04-06, 08:21 PM
Well, the question is, when does the speed boost kick in? There's two options;

Firstly, the railgun reading; Everytime you are attacked you add a square to your movement.

Secondly, for every time you are attacked on the movement, you gain a point of speed. This could be 'cashed in' via any other way of using your speed, such as taking a second move action, or charging.

I'm pretty hazy on how things interact with moving, to be quite honest, so I could see either being the case, strictly speaking.

I suspect that the former reading is the RAW, actually. For the simple reason that it isn't likely to actually break the game at any point. You're really unlikely to ever GET a big line of obedient peasants. In a real game scenario, attempting to get attacked a dozen or so times is quite likely to backfire, really. And if you're not 'using' a line of declared low-level minions, that 1/20 critical hit is going to sting even through a damage reducing power.

If people actually do find some kind of exploit, it'll likely be patched pretty soundly. But till then, I think we might infact have found our new peasant railgun. Like the Railgun, it doesn't really do much outside of theory. :smallsmile:

Some kind of Monk-Mail service, perhaps? (It's just that all it delivers is badly bruised monks. What, you think that because they work on a farm, that they're all going to be minions?)


hey, we have a fully operational one working! it just requires an entire battleship dedicated to it to power it...

FinalJustice
2010-04-06, 08:40 PM
Well, if not a line of commonners, at least you can get your party to high-five you to increase your movespeed when needed. That's gotta be useful.

Reynard
2010-04-06, 08:46 PM
Wait. There's that monk level 1 encounter power that lets them fly their speed, Rising Storm.

With, say, 2000 peasants (+2000 speed, or +10000 feet, or 1 mile and 1573.3 yards), you could use the Enduring Champion power for a run-up, beat down the last peasant (becuase, why not?), spend an action point, then fly the maximum distance (for a total of 20000 feet, or 3 miles and 1386.6 yards). Then you can move another 10000 feet next turn.

You just moved 30000 feet in 12 seconds, or 2500 feet per second.
The speed of sound is 1,125 feet per second.

A level 3 monk just moved over twice the speed of sound.

tcrudisi
2010-04-06, 08:50 PM
From the compendium:

You move your speed + 2. Each time you are attacked during this movement, you gain a +1 bonus to speed until the end of your next turn.

As such, to answer Tiki's question: you can get to keep the speed you gain until the end of your next turn. So if you used this power to get your speed up to 1000, then you can do another move, action point for another move, then next turn do a move and move to have moved approximately 5000 squares. That's 25,000 feet in 12 seconds, which is fairly respectable. Marion Jones at her peak would be hard pressed to beat that.

The Marion Jones comment was a joke.

Reynard
2010-04-06, 08:53 PM
Oh wait, you can double move.

Make that 40000 feet, then. Which is 3333.333 recurring feet per second.

almost three times the speed of sound.

Evard
2010-04-06, 08:55 PM
If a monk abused that to much I would make a physics vs fort attack with a bonus to the attack equal to the speed...

plus what about bugs? ewww

and if he tripped? holy crap that is one major carpet burn....

RiOrius
2010-04-06, 09:00 PM
I'm not too familiar with 4E, but by my reading of what you've written, I would think that you don't get to keep applying the bonus speed to the one move.

That is, I would think instead you'd have to declare your whole move, then start resolving it; along the way, you'd get OAed, boosting your speed, but you can't use the speed boost to extend your path.

Gralamin
2010-04-06, 09:01 PM
I'm not too familiar with 4E, but by my reading of what you've written, I would think that you don't get to keep applying the bonus speed to the one move.

That is, I would think instead you'd have to declare your whole move, then start resolving it; along the way, you'd get OAed, boosting your speed, but you can't use the speed boost to extend your path.

You move one square at a time during a move. In both 3.5 and 4e AFAIK.

Binks
2010-04-06, 09:03 PM
I'm not that familiar with 4e but it seems to me that using peasants for this is all wrong. Tiny creatures, ideally bugs (if they have stats in 4e, or if you can get your DM to stat them out 'as an exercise' :P) would work much better since you can stack up multiple in a single square (at least in 3.5) and they're far cheaper, even in large numbers. Get a few thousand ants to line up and AoO you as you run by for maximum amusement :P. Not to mention that it makes any anthills you find instant speedboosts :P.

Jothki
2010-04-06, 09:14 PM
You're using thousands of peasants for a single attack.


while usable, the ridiculous requirements make it unfeasible for military use

How about thousands of soldiers lined up in formation?

tcrudisi
2010-04-06, 09:17 PM
I'm not too familiar with 4E, but by my reading of what you've written, I would think that you don't get to keep applying the bonus speed to the one move.

That is, I would think instead you'd have to declare your whole move, then start resolving it; along the way, you'd get OAed, boosting your speed, but you can't use the speed boost to extend your path.

It makes no sense to print a power that says, "Move your speed +2. If you get OA'ed, then increase your speed by 1 for each OA you take. Except, don't. You won't actually get to use this bonus."

No, the way the power is written, you get those bonuses immediately. Much like if you are slowed during your move and you've already moved at least 2 squares, you stop moving immediately, if your speed increases, you would get to keep moving.

Gametime
2010-04-06, 09:22 PM
I'm inclined to think this doesn't work, based on this text about double move actions:


One Speed: When you double move, add the speeds
of the two move actions together and then move.

This makes me think (although I can't find anything explicit about single moves) that you're supposed to determine your speed before you move. You can move any number up to that speed, but the speed that limits your maximum movement is determined at the start of your move. Under this interpretation, the power would increase your speed on the next turn, but not the current one, and the rail gun is impossible.

The rules are a bit ambiguous, though, and if the intention is to give the monks a power that speeds them up as they get attacked, then I can't see anything opposing the rail gun. (Other than the acquisition of several thousand commoners, obviously.)

raitalin
2010-04-06, 09:25 PM
How about thousands of soldiers lined up in formation?

Yeah, if anything this might *only* have military use. I can see formations of soldiers shooting monks traveling at the speed of sound and attacking person in their path. More effective than a cannon, or even a 4e wizard.

Gametime
2010-04-06, 09:36 PM
It makes no sense to print a power that says, "Move your speed +2. If you get OA'ed, then increase your speed by 1 for each OA you take. Except, don't. You won't actually get to use this bonus."

No, the way the power is written, you get those bonuses immediately. Much like if you are slowed during your move and you've already moved at least 2 squares, you stop moving immediately, if your speed increases, you would get to keep moving.

It would make perfect sense if you kept the speed boost until the end of the next turn, which you do. It's possible that their intention was to make the power boost your speed as you go, and I suspect that's the case, but it's by no means clear.

Reynard
2010-04-06, 09:40 PM
Yeah, if anything this might *only* have military use. I can see formations of soldiers shooting monks traveling at the speed of sound and attacking person in their path. More effective than a cannon, or even a 4e wizard.

"Sir, we've found the enemy commander. He's about a mile behind the lines."

"Load the monks."

Tiki Snakes
2010-04-06, 09:56 PM
In a real game situation, the beating you would invariably take trying to use such a loop is enough that it's not worth worrying about. (Because you can't rely on everyone being treated as minions, meaning 1 in 20 hits no-matter what, and does max damage. There's no such thing as non-lethal, either, so this could get very painful very quickly.)

Or, to put it another way, the enemy commander blinks, and half a dozen unconcious monks slam into the wall behind him.

In a Theoretical situation, well. It does seem that the intent is to give you a speed boost for use during a a charge, or for any actions you take the next round. The way it's written does imply to me that it is intended that you take your speed, add 2, and then move. You get a bonus for any further actions equal to the number of attacks.
However, by RAW, I can see a case for the instant-increase reading.

If it was till end of turn, I'd be more inclined to support the latter as RAI than I am since being reminded that it is infact till end of next. Seems clear that RAI is the former, really.

Two closing notes, to consider when firing your Monk-Cannons, however;

Firstly, there is no such thing as a 'Commoner' anymore. That peasant might be treated as a minion, or the DM might just roll an appropriate dice or for any damage he does. Minions are, after all, for speeding up combat etc, not a method of simulating masses of miscelanious people. It'd only take one or two non-minions per dozen to cripple the monk-missile.

Secondly, all it'll take to stop the monk is a single fighter in the right place. They hit as he fires past, and they stop him instantly. Now, if you were hoping to kill the Enemy commander (and a thousand catgirls) by using some physics related argument, the fighter doesn't even need to roll damage, as the deceleration trauma will finish you off instantly.
Note; If the DM was suspiciously kind enough to give you a thousand minions to get the Monk up to speed, are you sure he's not cunning enough to have given the opposing army's first rank of soldiers all that same Fighter Ability?

Reynard
2010-04-06, 10:07 PM
Endure Pain ability - until the end of your next turn, you gain resistance to all damage equal to 5 + your constitution modifier.

Rising Thunder lets you fly.

tcrudisi
2010-04-06, 10:11 PM
I'm inclined to think this doesn't work, based on this text about double move actions:



This makes me think (although I can't find anything explicit about single moves) that you're supposed to determine your speed before you move. You can move any number up to that speed, but the speed that limits your maximum movement is determined at the start of your move. Under this interpretation, the power would increase your speed on the next turn, but not the current one, and the rail gun is impossible.

The rules are a bit ambiguous, though, and if the intention is to give the monks a power that speeds them up as they get attacked, then I can't see anything opposing the rail gun. (Other than the acquisition of several thousand commoners, obviously.)

Well, at this point we are arguing intent, but I've always took the opposite route with the double move action. Basically, it's there for the following situation: your speed is 6. Normally you can't end in your allies square and you want to move 12 squares. However, your ally is exactly 6 squares away and in the square you need to end in. Because of the double-move, you get to keep moving. However, you don't have to declare the double move at the start of the move.

Another example: you want to move 4 squares to attack the bad guy. After moving 2, you step on a trap which slows you. Your movement now ends, since you've already moved 2 squares. Your next action? You move 2 more squares.

Per your interpretation, that would be a double-move, so you would not be able to move the second time. Even if you "errata'ed" the first move into a double move, the slow would knock the double-move down to a speed of 2, so you'd only get to move 2 squares for your whole turn.

Swordgleam
2010-04-06, 10:13 PM
I'm not that familiar with 4e but it seems to me that using peasants for this is all wrong. Tiny creatures, ideally bugs (if they have stats in 4e, or if you can get your DM to stat them out 'as an exercise' :P) would work much better since you can stack up multiple in a single square (at least in 3.5) and they're far cheaper, even in large numbers. Get a few thousand ants to line up and AoO you as you run by for maximum amusement :P. Not to mention that it makes any anthills you find instant speedboosts :P.

Do any of the primal classes have a power or ritual that lets you summon swarms of insects? If so, instant travel to anywhere as a multiclassed monk/whatever. Conjure up some insects, run past them, go far.

tcrudisi
2010-04-06, 10:45 PM
Do any of the primal classes have a power or ritual that lets you summon swarms of insects? If so, instant travel to anywhere as a multiclassed monk/whatever. Conjure up some insects, run past them, go far.

Well, that's the thing. You aren't going to be able to break this power. If you find a monster that can hit you consistently, it will be able to hurt you. If you find a monster that can't hurt you, it won't be able to hit you.

Plus, it requires the DM to basically line up thousands of monsters perfectly. Even getting +4 speed from this would be hard to do (and very painful). It's not a broken power, by any stretch, and I don't know of any way to break it.

Also, per 4e, a swarm would still be 1 creature, so even if you get hit by a swarm, that's only +1 speed.

Gametime
2010-04-06, 10:46 PM
Well, at this point we are arguing intent, but I've always took the opposite route with the double move action. Basically, it's there for the following situation: your speed is 6. Normally you can't end in your allies square and you want to move 12 squares. However, your ally is exactly 6 squares away and in the square you need to end in. Because of the double-move, you get to keep moving. However, you don't have to declare the double move at the start of the move.

Another example: you want to move 4 squares to attack the bad guy. After moving 2, you step on a trap which slows you. Your movement now ends, since you've already moved 2 squares. Your next action? You move 2 more squares.

Per your interpretation, that would be a double-move, so you would not be able to move the second time. Even if you "errata'ed" the first move into a double move, the slow would knock the double-move down to a speed of 2, so you'd only get to move 2 squares for your whole turn.

I've always played it that way, too, since there's no such thing as a "double move" action and the text describing it seems to contradict the action structure 4th edition uses. Resolving move actions separately works much more cleanly with the actions structure and gives players a lot more options to respond to a changing environment.

But that one passage describing double move actions does seem to imply that the "correct" way to do it is to take your double move all at once.

Swordgleam
2010-04-06, 10:53 PM
Well, that's the thing. You aren't going to be able to break this power. If you find a monster that can hit you consistently, it will be able to hurt you. If you find a monster that can't hurt you, it won't be able to hit you.

Plus, it requires the DM to basically line up thousands of monsters perfectly. Even getting +4 speed from this would be hard to do (and very painful). It's not a broken power, by any stretch, and I don't know of any way to break it.

Also, per 4e, a swarm would still be 1 creature, so even if you get hit by a swarm, that's only +1 speed.

I don't think anyone is advocating using it for combat. It's more of a theoretical exercise / really fast transportation or messenger service. So you don't really need to worry about the DM providing helpful monsters - you go out and find the peasants and line them up and pay them some of the profits from your service. Presumably you'd build your character with a lot of HP but a very low AC.

Good point on the swarm.

Tiki Snakes
2010-04-06, 11:05 PM
I don't think anyone is advocating using it for combat. It's more of a theoretical exercise / really fast transportation or messenger service. So you don't really need to worry about the DM providing helpful monsters - you go out and find the peasants and line them up and pay them some of the profits from your service. Presumably you'd build your character with a lot of HP but a very low AC.

Good point on the swarm.

No, you want high AC too, even in Theory-land. You don't need to get hit to get the bonus, but if your peasant hits on a 20 already, reguardless of the crit, then they just did max damage. If they weren't a Minion, you could be in trouble. If they don't hit with a roll of 20 except that it's a crit, then it's just an auto-hit, not auto-max.

Plus, without any way to trigger many Op attacks from a small number of people, you'd need to line your route with people something like 1/4 to 1/2 of the way there. So, sure, you could travel from New York to California in 12 seconds, IF you lined up at least a quarter of the route with people standing 10 foot apart ready to strike. That's assuming none of them are doing more than 7 or so damage on a crit.

Adrayll
2010-04-06, 11:08 PM
Don't you take minimum one damage, regardless of DR?

Swordgleam
2010-04-06, 11:11 PM
Ah, I missed that it's when you're attacked, not when you're hit. Assuming you have helpful peasants, just have them all doing things that give them penalties to hit - lying prone, juggling carrots, making unarmed attacks, whatever. And since they're intentionally limiting their attacks, it shouldn't be hard to find a bunch of people who are able to cause themselves to rarely do more than 9 (5 + 4 from con) damage on a single hit.

Let's say you can find 100 squares of people to line up. You move 100, take another move action for 100, spend an action point for another 100, then take two more move actions next round for another 200, plus 5x whatever your base speed + feat/item modifiers from run are. So say around 520 squares for 100 people. That doesn't seem bad at all.

krossbow
2010-04-06, 11:12 PM
I don't think anyone is advocating using it for combat. It's more of a theoretical exercise / really fast transportation or messenger service. So you don't really need to worry about the DM providing helpful monsters - you go out and find the peasants and line them up and pay them some of the profits from your service. Presumably you'd build your character with a lot of HP but a very low AC.

Good point on the swarm.


The Death of One Monk is easily worth the destructive capability of his impact! :smalltongue:

They're into that noble sacrifice thing, right?

tcrudisi
2010-04-06, 11:14 PM
Don't you take minimum one damage, regardless of DR?

Nope. You can reduce damage down to 0.

I can think of a funny story hook revolving around this. There's this monastery, and for each applicant to become a full monk, they must complete a quest. To help speed them along, all the people in the city line up to punch the "monk hopeful" while he leaves to go complete his quest.

That would be hilarious and I could see a city making themselves famous for this (I could see this in a funny, definitely not serious sort of way).

Swordgleam
2010-04-06, 11:16 PM
To help speed them along, all the people in the city line up to punch the "monk hopeful" while he leaves to go complete his quest.

They can punch one monk a round. So just have the entire 'monk training group' leave on their quests at once (over the course of a few rounds), and the town can have a seasonal Monk Punching Festival!

tcrudisi
2010-04-06, 11:18 PM
They can punch one monk a round. So just have the entire 'monk training group' leave on their quests at once (over the course of a few rounds), and the town can have a seasonal Monk Punching Festival!

haha. True, but technically you can make one OA per combatant's turn, so even if all the monks were to go at once, you could make an OA against each one.

But that would sorta be fun, too. I want to move to a city where it's sanctioned, nay, required, to punch someone once a year. :smallcool:

krossbow
2010-04-06, 11:20 PM
Thinking about this, what would the maximum carrying capacity of the monk in question be?

Force x mass after all; i'd like to see just how damaging this impact would be.

Tiki Snakes
2010-04-06, 11:24 PM
Thinking about this, what would the maximum carrying capacity of the monk in question be?

Force x mass after all; i'd like to see just how damaging this impact would be.

He could make a bull-rush attempt as part of his charge on his last action, but otherwise he just...gets to where he was going. There's no clause that links speed or weight to impact damage.
Exactly like the commoner-railgun infact.

That's assuming the monk doesn't crumple into unconciousness (Read; Missfire) half-way there, from one crit too many.

[edit] Also -
+4 from con, really? On a Dex, Str, Wis class?

Swordgleam
2010-04-06, 11:25 PM
haha. True, but technically you can make one OA per combatant's turn, so even if all the monks were to go at once, you could make an OA against each one.

Hey! So you could take your first turn, have a warlord buddy (perhaps a Small one you're carrying on your back?) give you a move action, and get even more squares out of it.

holywhippet
2010-04-06, 11:43 PM
Of course, you still need to line up peasants the whole way, not just half way, since otherwise you'd have no way of getting back.


You could actually, just line the peasants up on either side of the monk's path - ie. you run down through a corridor of them.

This could be so much fun to use. Actually the monk power that lets you fly your speed could be so much fun to use with this - Supermonk.

Swordgleam
2010-04-06, 11:54 PM
That would be a good way to get more mileage out of your squares.

I mean getting back later, though. You monkgun(tm) out to the big city to do some shopping, then you need some peasants to help you monkgun back. Of course, with the new efficiencies, you only need peasants like 1/10 of the way. But you'd need that many on each end of the trip.

krossbow
2010-04-06, 11:56 PM
I wonder how long till the monk surpasses the speed of light and breaks the universe.

Binks
2010-04-07, 12:05 AM
Do monks still get some kind of poison immunity in 4e? Again, using 3.5 references, something like the monster spider would work well then, since it deals <2 damage max (1d4-3) making a crit still not able to deal damage. Assuming of course that something similar exists in 4e. Basically you'd need to find a way to generate as many very small (fine would be ideal since you can fit 100 to a square, making 10 squares of them 1000 AoO's) very weak creatures as you can.

Perhaps the town simply has the 'wall of knats', a small walled off area 10 squares long full of little insects that the monks run through to pick up speed. One side would have to be open when the monk starts running obviously but you could contain them fairly well and it would be a hilarious initiation for new monks :P. "Come on, get in there so you can run to the next town and pick up some milk." "What are you crazy? It's full of bugs!" "Precisely!"

Swordgleam
2010-04-07, 12:09 AM
10x3 square area, you mean - get AOs from the gnats in your square, and the gnats in the surrounding ones.

This could be a great service in towns. Have an official Monkgun network, then charge wandering monks to use your Gnat Corridors to fuel their rapid transit.

absolmorph
2010-04-07, 12:33 AM
I approve of this thread.
Ridiculous speed for no particular reason is the best speed. And reason.

IonDragon
2010-04-07, 01:01 AM
How fast exactly is he going?
Mach 3?
Light Speed?

No, light speed is too slow.
Ludicrous speed! Go!

Binks
2010-04-07, 01:15 AM
10x3 square area, you mean - get AOs from the gnats in your square, and the gnats in the surrounding ones.

This could be a great service in towns. Have an official Monkgun network, then charge wandering monks to use your Gnat Corridors to fuel their rapid transit.

I didn't think tiny and smaller creatures could AoO outside their square (no reach). Did that change in 4e?

Jothki
2010-04-07, 10:15 AM
I wonder how long till the monk surpasses the speed of light and breaks the universe.

Any character does it any time they move.

Indon
2010-04-07, 10:26 AM
No, you want high AC too, even in Theory-land. You don't need to get hit to get the bonus, but if your peasant hits on a 20 already, reguardless of the crit, then they just did max damage. If they weren't a Minion, you could be in trouble. If they don't hit with a roll of 20 except that it's a crit, then it's just an auto-hit, not auto-max.
If the peasant can't hit on a 20, however, he can not crit - he can only hit, even on a 20.

A more feasible use of this would be with your party members (particularly spellcasters, so they have the option of a feeble OA). Not much speed boost, but still, in a highly tactical combat every little bit can help.

subject42
2010-04-07, 12:05 PM
To help speed them along, all the people in the city line up to punch the "monk hopeful" while he leaves to go complete his quest.

This reminds me of the Lupercalia festival in Ancient Rome. They would beat you with strips of bloody animal skin as you ran through town naked.

More seriously, would caltrops or other traps trigger this ability? If you have DR and Caltrops do 1 damage, it could just require really pointy roadways.

Nidogg
2010-04-07, 12:14 PM
Wouldnt the peasants at the end be swept away by the monks ludicrous slipstream? Or get blasted off their feet by a sonic boom?
And can someone explain "The NEW peasant railgun"? was there an old one?

senrath
2010-04-07, 12:23 PM
More seriously, would caltrops or other traps trigger this ability? If you have DR and Caltrops do 1 damage, it could just require really pointy roadways.

I'm pretty sure those aren't actually considered attacks, though.

subject42
2010-04-07, 12:25 PM
And can someone explain "The NEW peasant railgun"? was there an old one?

The peasant railgun was a 3.5 method of combining game rule abuse with real-world physics to make things go really fast.

You would like up a few thousand peasants and have them hand an item down the line with readied actions. Since handing an item to someone else is a free action, it would take six seconds to travel the entire distance no matter how many people were involved. At the end, the implication was that the last person would let the item go and it would fly off into the far realms at several times the speed of light.

subject42
2010-04-07, 12:26 PM
I'm pretty sure those aren't actually considered attacks, though.

I've only played 4e a few times, but don't they still have to make an attack roll like in 3.5? Wouldn't that count?

SSGoW
2010-04-07, 12:34 PM
I'm pretty sure those aren't actually considered attacks, though.

Well it depends if it is considered dificult terrain or not...

If caltrops get a attack vs ref then yes it would be considered an attack. I would say no as a DM but yes as a player XD

*edit*
Traps and such work differently in 4e than 3.5... In 3.5 you get a saving throw but in 4e you get attacked (even if it is a caltrop on the ground). Technically you are the one attacking (stepping n the caltrop) and the caltrop is hitting you with a immediate interupt AoO

Yora
2010-04-07, 12:35 PM
But they are not "someone" to make an attack.

Create huge numbers of very small construct creatures that make a very weak attack when someone runs by them. Set them up in a very long line. Now take a character with the appropriate abilities and give him a back of holding, or create a custom magic item in form of a cart that requires minimum strength to pull, even when fully loaded.
You know have a long distance transport network that can deliver packages or people to any location within the network within 6 seconds. And it only needs a 6 second cooldown before the line can be used again.

SSGoW
2010-04-07, 12:39 PM
Make the caltrops magically "alive" by a ritual or something to make them count as someone then?

Wow that would be painful, running at mach speed and stepping on well anything even the ground XD

Vulkarius
2010-04-07, 02:52 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought in 4e a critical wasn't a guarenteed hit. You have to add the 20 + whatever bonus you get for the attack vs. Defense and it has to be more than their defense to hit. Question mark !

Tiki Snakes
2010-04-07, 06:22 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought in 4e a critical wasn't a guarenteed hit. You have to add the 20 + whatever bonus you get for the attack vs. Defense and it has to be more than their defense to hit. Question mark !

20 is an auto-hit. HOWEVER, it's only a crit if it would hit without the auto-hit.

Sir Homeslice
2010-04-07, 07:02 PM
And it only needs a 6 second cooldown before the line can be used again.

Enduring Champion is an encounter power. They'd need to take occasional five minute breaks.

Reynard
2010-04-07, 07:58 PM
So, we'd just need 62 monks in each depot. The instant they arrive, they sit in the corner and rest.

Worira
2010-04-07, 08:27 PM
You can arrange the commoners in a spiral pattern for more space efficiency.