Parallel universes

[pendell]

Or so some scientists at UC Santa Barbara (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/05/freaky-physics-proves-parallel-universes/) claim.

That give us .. time travel, FTL travel. *If true*. It also has implications for string theory and our understanding of how other universes might impact our own. I wonder what other implications there would be?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Quincunx]

The implication is that thousands of forum-sitting thought experimenters weren't paid for this and that these guys were, and furthermore, that there's some sort of grant money out there I ought to be soliciting.

[Yora]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/string_theory.png

[Delta]

I wonder what other implications there would be?

One of the most important implication would be to take everything you hear about quantum physics from Fox News (or anything else your hear or read from Fox News, from what I can tell of my admittedly limited contact with them...) with a grain of salt. A quite large one, preferably ;)

Actually, Yora's post will tell you a lot more about string theory than most of the stuff you will see on tv.

[DSCrankshaw]

One of the most important implication would be to take everything you hear about quantum physics from Fox News (or anything else your hear or read from Fox News, from what I can tell of my admittedly limited contact with them...) with a grain of salt. A quite large one, preferably ;)

Actually, Yora's post will tell you a lot more about string theory than most of the stuff you will see on tv.

Eh, I'd apply that to any mainstream news science reporting. If possible, read the original article, rather than rely on the news's interpretation.

In fact, it's good to apply that to all news reporting when you can. You'll often find that the news summarizes what's happened in a way that misses the point.

[chiasaur11]

Possible implications?

A hellish alternate reality based on primitive genetic engineering.

This will probably lead to clones, exploding dogs, and demonic deer that drop shotgun shells when you kill them.

[PersonMan]

Eh, I'd apply that to any article.

In fact, it's good to apply that to all [articles]. You'll often find [out] what's happened in a way that misses the point.

Summarized that for you. :smallamused:

[Szilard]

I wonder if there are perpendicular universes too.

[Kaelaroth]

So.

How long 'til we invade other universes in search of natural resources?

[pendell]

If we invade other universes, I suspect it will be because we are in search of un-natural resources; resources that are useful in our reality but do not exist anywhere in 'nature' -- i.e., anywhere in our reality, our universe. Who knows what unobtanium might be out there?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Player_Zero]

So.

How long 'til we invade other universes in search of natural resources?

Like in all those millions of scifi novels? Didn't you read the end? It turns out badly for the invaders.

Also:

Freaky Physics Proves Parallel Universes Exist
Oh ho.

So... The guy writing knew nothing about physics huh?

[Starscream]

Oh ho.

So... The guy writing knew nothing about physics huh?

Pretty much sums it up. This is a clear example of fascinating science being bogged down by lousy journalism.

[Mando Knight]

Or so some scientists at UC Santa Barbara (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/05/freaky-physics-proves-parallel-universes/) claim.

That give us .. time travel, FTL travel. *If true*. It also has implications for string theory and our understanding of how other universes might impact our own. I wonder what other implications there would be?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Parallel universes don't impact other universes. That's the whole point of a parallel universe. To influence another, parallel, universe, you would need to be able to cross the multiversal trans-dimensional stream, probably by skipping across intersections with cross universes (that is, points in time where the universe is entirely identical to another universe).

Personally, I think that if there really is a multiverse, it's more of an omniverse... a fractally differentiating set of temporal curves containing all possibilities for what our universe could be or could have been, intersecting with a similarly massive set of cross-universes, which may or may not be perpendicular, and may or may not be traveling "backwards" along some kind of hyper-time. Such a "cross universe" would include weird crazy universes incomprehensible to our own, as well as universes that appear identical to ours except for a minor branch off... from as simple as whether you ordered a cheeseburger or chicken strips at the fast food joint the other day, to as different as John Wilkes Booth failing to kill Lincoln or Teddy Roosevelt winning his third term as president.

[absolmorph]

Parallel universes don't impact other universes. That's the whole point of a parallel universe. To influence another, parallel, universe, you would need to be able to cross the multiversal trans-dimensional stream, probably by skipping across intersections with cross universes (that is, points in time where the universe is entirely identical to another universe).

Personally, I think that if there really is a multiverse, it's more of an omniverse... a fractally differentiating set of temporal curves containing all possibilities for what our universe could be or could have been, intersecting with a similarly massive set of cross-universes, which may or may not be perpendicular, and may or may not be traveling "backwards" along some kind of hyper-time. Such a "cross universe" would include weird crazy universes incomprehensible to our own, as well as universes that appear identical to ours except for a minor branch off... from as simple as whether you ordered a cheeseburger or chicken strips at the fast food joint the other day, to as different as John Wilkes Booth failing to kill Lincoln or Teddy Roosevelt winning his third term as president.

So, somewhere in the omniverse, I'm a Pokemon Trainer?

... You rock, other me.

[Kobold-Bard]

So.

How long 'til we invade other universes in search of natural resources?

Just remember: if we can invade them, they can invade us right back.

[Sliver]

So, somewhere in the omniverse, I'm a Pokemon Trainer?

... You rock, other me.

Somewhere, you might be actually a rock!

[absolmorph]

Somewhere, you might be actually a rock!
I might?!
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/liquidprefix/geodude.gif
SWEET!

[Kobold-Bard]

I might?!
...
SWEET!

Because I have a long-standing vendetta against Geodude I just can't see it without posting this in reply:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/MisterHero/Geodude_4realz.jpg

[Closak]

There's three levels here.

Universe: One universe, such as the one we live in.

Multiverse: A gathering of mutiple universes, take one universe and then make a duplicate of it for every possible event that could have gone differently anywhere at any point, so now we have an infinite number of universes in a giant cluster, forming a multiverse.
Something as simple as whether you choose to hold your breath for a fraction of a second longer before taking a new breath will create a new universe where it went differently, thus accounting for every possibility.

A multiverse is basically a giant cluster of universes, each one a different version of what could have happened.

Omniverse: Literally everything, all of existence, made up of countless multiverses.


There is a difference between how things work though, things that would be impossible in one multiverse may very well be common in another.
You won't see any magic in our multiverse, but if you ended up in another there is a chance you would.

I am now imagining an alternate me in another multiverse shooting fireballs out of my hands for fun...


This would mean that all these video games, books and other fictional stuff have actually happened somewhere in some multiverse (Or in some variations of said multiverse, happening right now)

If we ever find a way to cross dimensional borders i want to visit the D&D multiverse. I have some ideas i would like to try out in person.

[absolmorph]

Because I have a long-standing vendetta against Geodude I just can't see it without posting this in reply:
...
Yes, well, I can still evolve into a boulder thing.

[denthor]

The powers that be have already prepared us for this theory

anyone remember

SLIDERS????

[absolmorph]

The powers that be have already prepared us for this theory

anyone remember

SLIDERS????
Mmmmm... sliders. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0366551/)

[pendell]

Parallel universes don't impact other universes. That's the whole point of a parallel universe.


Except that, if we can perform experiments that validate the existence of other universes, that implies those other universes are impacting our universe; at the very least, sufficiently enough to observe the interaction. And if we can *observe* another universe, or at least it's effects, then it is likely we will also *affect* the other universe. Heisenberg. To observe something is to affect it.

Therefore, these other universes cannot be truly parallel. If they were, there would not be enough cross-traffic even for useful experiments.

Indeed, the word "parallel" has other problems as well, because it implies straight lines. I suspect -- if anyone could draw the topology without going stark raving mad -- curves would predominate far more than lines and planes. It's not as if truly straight lines or completely rectangular planes exist outside pure mathematics.



Personally, I think that if there really is a multiverse, it's more of an omniverse... a fractally differentiating set of temporal curves containing all possibilities for what our universe could be or could have been, intersecting with a similarly massive set of cross-universes, which may or may not be perpendicular, and may or may not be traveling "backwards" along some kind of hyper-time. Such a "cross universe" would include weird crazy universes incomprehensible to our own, as well as universes that appear identical to ours except for a minor branch off... from as simple as whether you ordered a cheeseburger or chicken strips at the fast food joint the other day, to as different as John Wilkes Booth failing to kill Lincoln or Teddy Roosevelt winning his third term as president.

Quite possible, and an elegant summation of the theory.

More practically, if we can find a way to cross the dimensional barrier I'm going to invent the Bag of Holding. I'd also make landfills a thing of the past. RBP's disposal service , makes your trash 'go away'. Hopefully the other end will be some green world populated by blue smurfs. I've had it in for those guys since the movie.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Kaelaroth]

Just remember: if we can invade them, they can invade us right back.

Which is why we have to get there first.

[Maximum Zersk]

Course I've heard of it.

Hmm, does this mean that the Lord of the Rings Universe exists? Or that the Discworld exists? If it was true?

I was thinking, maybe they're parallel curves?

[Yulian]

This article means that journalists have no comprehension of the difference between "events" as we tend to think of them and quantum events, which is what this is really all about.

- Yulian

[denthor]

Course I've heard of it.

Hmm, does this mean that the Lord of the Rings Universe exists? Or that the Discworld exists? If it was true?

I was thinking, maybe they're parallel curves?

A universe where disco is king Maximum Zersk you are the greatest.

[TSGames]

Or so some scientists at UC Santa Barbara (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/05/freaky-physics-proves-parallel-universes/) claim.


I am reminded of how alchemists proved that lead could be turned into gold. I'm going to sleep again, wake me up in 600 years when there's a slim chance it might be practical science.

[Binks]

Therefore, these other universes cannot be truly parallel. If they were, there would not be enough cross-traffic even for useful experiments.

Yep. I suspect that, if these experiments hold out and we're able to interact with these other universes that there will be a call for a renaming since they can't really be parallel anymore if they're affecting (intersecting) with our universe.


Indeed, the word "parallel" has other problems as well, because it implies straight lines...

Not so much. Parallel is a funny word actually. It's technically a property of Euclidean geometries that's been extended to non-Euclidean ones...and there's absolutely no reason to believe that whatever structure a multiverse would have would be Euclidean. There's good reason to believe that our universe in non-Euclidean, and the Earth's surface is non-Euclidean (being a spherical plane, a surface that has no parallel lines interestingly enough), so we don't see Euclidean geometries all that often in nature. Euclidean space is a useful approximation, like Newtonian gravity, it's not so applicable in situations like this.

In short parallel != straight except in very specific cases. (the vast majority of those cases being Euclidean spaces). It's perfectly reasonable to have parallel curves so long as you're not restricted to Euclidean geometries. You can even have intersecting geodesics be parallel so long as they intersect at infinity. Math is weird.


Hopefully the other end will be some green world populated by blue smurfs.

More likely it'll be a species that didn't know other dimensions existed until stuff started popping into their world, at which point they developed a means to send all of their garbage to another world...which loops back to us...inter-dimensional trade! :P

[golentan]

So, rather than parallel universes is this a case of nearly orthogonal universes (where the axes are ALMOST independent of each other).

Fascinating science, terrible reporting, pretty much what I've come to expect from "Science" news articles.

[Phae Nymna]

In an infinite number of randomly occurring scenarios in an infinite number of theoretical alternate universes, I ------ your ------ in ------ and ------ over ------ and the new stallion's ------ at which point I was crowned ------ of ------ and ------ became a werewolf.

[Delta]

Except that, if we can perform experiments that validate the existence of other universes

Which we haven't, it's just the way a journalist with no knowledge whatsoever of quantum physics tried to understand the result while not being even slightly interested in the actual physics behind it, but "Parallel universes proven to exist!" makes for a better headline in mainstream media than anything you'd find in a quantum physics textbook.

[Deadly]

I felt Matt Springer put it well (http://scienceblogs.com/builtonfacts/2010/04/the_worst_physics_article_ever.php) regarding that particular bit of bad journalism.

[Kallisti]

I do not trust any article on science that uses the word "wonky."

[chiasaur11]

I do not trust any article on science that uses the word "wonky."

I fear you won't particularly like any Galifrian research papers, then.

A shame.

"The Multiverse is a bit Wonky, innit?" was a real eye opener.

[Kallisti]

Well, that was a bit much, but technically "It goes ding when there's stuff" was simple truth, so that one gets a pass.

[Capt Spanner]

OP has some very interesting research in it, but sadly not for the reason the article links to describes.

Deadly got it spot on (or at least, the link Deadly went to got it spot on).

There is an interpretation of quantum superposition* that states that something in superposition exists in one state in one universe and one state in another (the many worlds interpretation). The more common interpretation is the Copenhagen interpretation, which states that the superposition is real, and that an object is actually in both states at the same time.


The research reported in the OP is interesting because this is the first time superposition has been observed on a macroscopic level, as opposed to a sub-atomic level.

If you imagine that actually performing the Schroedinger's Cat experiment is like landing a man on the moon, this is like the first manned orbit of the moon, where previously we'd only managed to send robots to crash into it. It's a big discovery, but Fox News totally missed the point.

*Superposition is a bit of an odd word. It basically means being in two mutually exclusive states at the same time, and it is possible when you don't know which state it is in.
For example, if you have a box with a sub-atomic particle inside. And that particle can either be blue or red totally at random. Until you look at it and see the particle is simultaneously red AND blue. It's only when you look that it "decides" - for mathematical reasons, physicists say its wave function collapses. (I'm not going to go into it, because the maths is a total bastard. Oh, and how the collapse happens is one of the big unanswered questions in physics.)
The world "superposition" is used because it refers to the next level up in the hierarchy to "position", rather than some new and improved version of position.


For those interested:

Here's the original article. (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v464/n7289/full/nature08967.html)

Nature News and Views on the discovery (http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v6/n4/full/nphys1649.html). (Far better then Fox News!)
An online subscription to Nature is needed - most Universities have them, so if you're logged at a Uni, you should be able to get it.

Also: Original press release. (http://www.ia.ucsb.edu/pa/display.aspx?pkey=2200)