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Revan Ordo
2010-04-08, 07:59 AM
I recently decided to convert the 3.5 warmage from Complete Arcane over to the Pathfinder system. I've seen a few other attempts and have liked their overall direction, but thought I would take a stab at it as well to get some other ideas out there. I am also currently working on converting the 3.5 warlock to Pathfinder as well. As soon as I finish it, I'll get it posted.

The Warmage

The Warmage
HD: d8
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special| 1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Armored Mage (light), Cantrips, Warmage Edge|3

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Arcane Strike, Sudden Still|4

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|Advanced Learning|5

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Spell Power|6|3

5th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Advanced Learning, Armored Mage (Medium)|6|4

6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+5|Sudden Sculpt|6|5|3

7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+5|Advanced Learning|6|6|4

8th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+2|
+6|Intense Spells|6|6|5|3

9th|
+6/+1|
+3|
+3|
+6|Advanced Learning, Armored Mage (Heavy Shields)|6|6|6|4

10th|
+7/+2|
+3|
+3|
+7|Sudden Empower|6|6|6|5|3

11th|
+8/+3|
+3|
+3|
+7|Advanced Learning|6|6|6|6|4

12th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+4|
+8|Piercing Spells|6|6|6|6|5|3

13th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+4|
+8|Advanced Learning|6|6|6|6|6|4

14th|
+10/+5|
+4|
+4|
+9|Sudden Maximize|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+5|
+9|Advanced Learning|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+10|Mighty Spells|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+10|Advanced Learning|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+6|
+11|Sudden Quicken|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|Advanced Learning|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12|War Spells|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5 [/table]

Skills: Craft, Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: History, Knowledge: the Planes, Perception, Profession, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device
Skill Points: 2 + Int modifier
Armor and Weapon Proficiency: Warmages are proficient with light armor and shields and with simple weapons plus all martial weapons.
Spellcasting: Intelligence replaces Charisma as the spell casting attribute. This reduces MAD and allows Intelligence to benefit Warmage Edge, Spellcasting, and Skill Points. Also Int seems to be more thematically appropriate as a casting stat than Charisma for the Warmage class.
Armored Mage: At 1st level, the warmage ignores arcane spell failure when wearing light armor and wielding a light shield. At 5th level, the warmage ignores arcane spell failure when wearing medium armor. At 9th level, the warmage ignores arcane spell failure when wielding a heavy shield.
Cantrips: Warmages can cast any of the cantrips from the warmage spell list at will as a spell-like ability. Cantrips are treated like any other spell cast by the warmage in terms of duration and other variables based on level.
Warmage Edge: As warmage edge in 3.5 except you now add 1/2 your caster level plus your Intelligence modifier to the damage done by any spell that deals hit-point damage.
Arcane Strike: At 2nd level the warmage gains the arcane strike feat.
Sudden Still: At 2nd level, as a swift action the warmage can apply the Still Spell metamagic feat 3 + his Int modifier times per day without increasing the spellís level.
Advanced Learning: At 3rd level and every odd level thereafter you may add one evocation spell from the Sorcerer/Wizard list whose level you can cast to your list of spells known or you may add one spell from any of the other schools of magic from the Sorcerer/Wizard list to your list of spells known, however, non-Evocation spells count as one level higher than normal (i.e. Mirror Image would be a 3rd level spell instead of a 2nd level spell).
Spell Power - At 4th level, the warmageís spells that deal damage gain a +1 bonus to their save DC if any.
Sudden Sculpt: At 6th level, as a swift action the warmage can apply the Scuplt Spell metamagic feat 3 + his Int modifier times per day without increasing the spellís level.
Intense Spells - At 8th level, spells the warmage casts that deal energy damage ignores the energy resistance of creatures affected by the spell.
Sudden Empower: At 10th level, as a swift action the warmage can apply the Empower Spell feat 3 + his Int modifier times per day without increasing the spellís level.
Piercing Spells - At 12th level, any spell cast from the warmage list bypasses spell resistance.
Sudden Maxmize: At 14th level, as a swift action the warmage can apply the Maximize Spell feat 3 + his Int modifier times per day without increasing the spellís level.
Mighty Spells - At 16th level, creatures with energy immunity still take half damage when affected by the warmageís spells that deal energy damage.
Sudden Quicken: At 18th level, as a swift action the warmage can apply the Quicken Spell feat 3 + his Int modifier times per day without increasing the spellís level.
War Spells - At 20th level, the warmageís spells that deal damage are treated as if they were enlarged and widened as per the metamagic feats without increasing their level or their casting time.

*Since the sudden metamagic abilities use a swift action, the warmage may only apply one of them to a spell at a time. I may even consider making a warmage specific feat or magic item later that would grant them the ability to take two swift actions per round a given number of times per day, but I'm not sure at this point.

Warmage Spell List - The only changes needed were to add Detect Magic and Read Magic to their cantrips. Other than that it looked good as is.

Revan Ordo
2010-04-09, 07:39 AM
A little feedback would be appreciated.

Darkholme
2010-04-16, 09:17 PM
From what I see, I like the conversion. I'm not a big fan of the "Has entire spell list with a very limited selection". I'd really enjoy seeing a non-spontaneous version of the class that's a little more like the wizard as well.

There is a PrC which might give you some good Ideas "War Wizard". It's in Magic of Faerun I believe.

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-16, 09:45 PM
Looks good. I'm not exactly sure why you felt you needed to 'convert' it to pathfinder, but it's a small boost, which is good in my book.

chando
2010-04-17, 06:27 PM
It doesn't have an HD. I think it should be d8 (if i'm not mistaken, regular wizards have a d6 in pathfinder. Even if I'm mistaken, d8 seems right for a class with "War" in its name, 3/4 BAB and such a limited spell list)

Maybe it could grant full martial weapons proficiency at some level(even if not at fisrt level) just so it could qualify for some Gish Prc without multiclassing. 6th, 7th or 8th level seem about right, or you could just give it away at fisrt level like a fighter just to not right a whole new class feature for it. (it would save lines, less reading, more simplistic mechanic :D )
Also, the class gains "Arcane Strike", so it fits the arcane warrior theme.
(but the way you do does give him proficiency similar to a bard, witch would be about right as well, I'd go either way here, really)


I did like a lot of the Sudden metamagics, it seems almost worth to go all the way in Warmage. But maybe you sould have Sudden Sculpt at level 6 and Sudden Still at level 2 or so. Sudden still isn't really good, only once in a while, while Sculpt Spell is really needed to not fry your friends with your fireballs and almost any area spells. Plus, it does fits the WAR theme.

The "War Magic Power" class features, can you choose the same feature over and over again? Or you just gain the feature for that level?
Not sure if it would be overpower or not, be it needs to be specified. Also, if you can't choose the same War Magic Power more then once, then way call it that at all? why not just put Spell Power, Intense Spells, etc on the table and make it different abilities? It would look more pro. Unless you are meant to choose what you get each level (ala rogue special abilities after 10th level)

Also, not sure how Piercing Spells work... Does all conjuration spell automatically bypass spell resistance in Pathfinder(away from books) ? If so, thats ok, but why not just write that the warmage spells automatically bypass spell resistance (or give it a bonus equal to its Intelligence modifier when bypassing SR, witch woudl result in basically the same).

Anyway, looks great, better then the regular warmage, but the regular warmage does suck badly, so yeah, maybe this is finally in the same power level as the sorcerer.

Revan Ordo
2010-04-20, 07:34 AM
First, Thanks to all of you who have looked over this and commented. I've looked at the comments and made some of the changes suggested.

The HD for the class was added (can't believe I missed that one). Decided to go ahead and add full martial weapon proficiency to allow it to better fulfill its combat role and to allow it to qualify for prestige classes. Got rid of the War Magic Power as that was confusing and made it so you get spell power, intense spells, etc. at the specified level. I also changed it so the warmage gets sudden still at 2nd level, and sudden sculpt at 6th level.

I think I've covered all of the bases for now and that this is a class that is at least as powerful as a sorcerer or close enough. While I think most would admit that 'blasting' isn't the most optimal or powerful, this class makes it worthwile to pursue that route.

Darcand
2010-04-20, 08:53 AM
Consider either having the Warmage's casting ability based on int, or his edge based on cha. Also, consider changing the sudden metamagic bonus feats to a sudden metamagic ability allowing the Warmage to apply any metamagic feats they already have 3+1/2 warmage level times per day starting at around level six.

The Warmage lacks the type of spells that work well in a traditional gish build, however the Arcane Archer prestige class fits her perfectly, at the very least for a two level dip to get imbue arrow to really turn them into the artillary they are meant to be. Maybe adding a few battlefield control spells to the list would be helpful?

Infact, to PF a Warmage I would give her the Sorc's spells per day with the bonuses of a Wiz specialized in evocation and only able to draw spells from that school and then at 3rd and every odd thereafter let them add one spell from any other school. Only armor them up to medium, they will be cranking dex anyway for ranged attack bonuses I suspect.

Valairn
2010-04-20, 10:51 AM
Consider either having the Warmage's casting ability based on int, or his edge based on cha. Also, consider changing the sudden metamagic bonus feats to a sudden metamagic ability allowing the Warmage to apply any metamagic feats they already have 3+1/2 warmage level times per day starting at around level six.

The caster stat and edge are both based off int already.

For the metamagic recommendation, I would say allow the warmage to apply any metamagic feat they have without increasing its spell level 3+int mod times per day. This is really not too unfair, considering that the warmage can only, "blast."


The Warmage lacks the type of spells that work well in a traditional gish build, however the Arcane Archer prestige class fits her perfectly, at the very least for a two level dip to get imbue arrow to really turn them into the artillary they are meant to be. Maybe adding a few battlefield control spells to the list would be helpful?

The new pathfinder eldritch knight has an ability where if you crit, you can instantly quicken a spell in that round, so it not entirely a waste to go full EK with this, you only lose 1 spell level! You could in fact go arcane archer, get imbue arrow, then finish out ek, and crit with your bow and cast additional spells, real artillery power! :D


Infact, to PF a Warmage I would give her the Sorc's spells per day with the bonuses of a Wiz specialized in evocation and only able to draw spells from that school and then at 3rd and every odd thereafter let them add one spell from any other school. Only armor them up to medium, they will be cranking dex anyway for ranged attack bonuses I suspect.

I wouldn't go this far, you risk just making the warmage, a re-tooled sorceror.

Revan Ordo
2010-04-20, 04:12 PM
Thanks for the comments, I will consider them. However, at the moment I think I will keep the class as is. I'm going to play test it probably this weekend when I get the time. Depending on how it goes, I may tweak it some more.

Darcand
2010-04-20, 06:38 PM
The caster stat and edge are both based off int already.

Right you are sir, I missed that it had been changed when I read through this morning.

Valairn
2010-04-22, 01:31 PM
I am in fact play testing this in a campaign soon. So i'll get back to you on how it rolls out.

Revan Ordo
2010-04-23, 07:10 AM
Valairn,

Thanks. Looking forward to hearing how this plays out in your campaign.