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Rin_Hunter
2010-04-09, 01:40 AM
Yup, you guessed it. There are no Pigs, Sheep or even Chickens in the MM. Not even a Goat (Though I've not stated a goat, it's essentially a Sheep).

But a Bison can be used for a Cow I suppose... And there are already Horses, a Donkey and a Mule.

So here are my attempts at three animals. Feel free to use them or chuck them. Your choice~

Pig CR ½
Neutral Small Animal
Init +1; Senses Listen +1, Spot + 1, Low-Light Vision, Scent
---------------------------------------------------------------
AC 12, 10, 12 (+1 Size, +2 Natural, -1 Dex)
Hp 1d8+1 = 5 (1 HD)
Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +1
---------------------------------------------------------------
Speed 30
Space / Reach 5 / 5
Melee Slam +1 (1d6/20/x2)
Base Atk +0, Grp -2
---------------------------------------------------------------
Abilities S10, D8, Co12, I2, W12, Ch4
Feats Alertness
Skills Listen +7
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alignment True Neutral
Environment Any Hills or Plains
Organisation Solitary, Pair, Group (3-9), Herd (10-30)

---

Sheep CR ½
Neutral Small Animal
Init +1; Senses Listen +1, Spot + 1, Low-Light Vision
---------------------------------------------------------------
AC 13, 12, 12 (+1 Size, +1 Natural, +1 Dex)
Hp 1d8+1 = 5 (1 HD)
Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +1
---------------------------------------------------------------
Speed 30
Space / Reach 5 / 5
Melee Gore +2 (1d6+1/20/x2) (This is a slam if female)
Base Atk +0, Grp -2
---------------------------------------------------------------
Abilities S12, D12, Co12, I1, W12, Ch4
Feats Alertness
Skills Listen +7
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alignment True Neutral
Environment Any Hills or Plains
Organisation Solitary, Pair, Group (3-9), Herd (10-30)

---

Chicken CR ¼
Neutral Tiny Animal
Init +1; Senses Listen +1, Spot + 1, Low-Light Vision
---------------------------------------------------------------
AC 16, 15, 13 (+2 Size, +1 Natural, +3 Dex)
Hp ½d8 = 2 (½ HD)
Fort +0, Ref +3, Will +0
---------------------------------------------------------------
Speed 30
Space / Reach 2.5 / 2.5
Melee Talon +0 (1d4-2/20/x2)
Base Atk +0, Grp -10
---------------------------------------------------------------
Abilities S7, D16, Co10, I1, W10, Ch2
Feats Alertness
Skills Listen +6
---------------------------------------------------------------
Alignment True Neutral
Environment Any Hills or Plains
Organisation Solitary, Pair, Flock (3-10)

blueblade
2010-04-09, 01:43 AM
Of course, the important question is could they beat a housecat/commoner in combat?

Rin_Hunter
2010-04-09, 01:46 AM
Of course, the important question is could they beat a housecat/commoner in combat?

Wow, one post before Lord Snuggles appears to kill random commoners again? Very nice. I read that old thread and plan to stat Lord Snuggles without going mental with the Psuedonatural template...

But to answer your question. I doubt it.

Altair_the_Vexed
2010-04-09, 02:02 AM
...

Pig CR ½
...
Melee Slam+3 (1d6+2/20/x2)

...

Sheep CR ½
...
Melee Gore +4 (1d6+3/20/x2) (This is a slam if female)
...

Chicken CR ¼
...
Melee Talon +4 (1d6+3/20/x2)
...
*Buys a bag of chickens*
*Throws chickens at enemy*

Did you really mean to write "+" in those damage entries?
Chickens and sheep and pig are able to kill a grown man in a single blow?
A pig is less dangerous than a chicken?
A chicken is as dangerous as a strong man with a short sword?

Rin_Hunter
2010-04-09, 02:09 AM
*Buys a bag of chickens*
*Throws chickens at enemy*

Did you really mean to write "+" in those damage entries?
Chickens and sheep and pig are able to kill a grown man in a single blow?
A pig is less dangerous than a chicken?
A chicken is as dangerous as a strong man with a short sword?

Hmm... Good point :smallbiggrin:

And I shall be lowering some Strength scores very soon~

Rin_Hunter
2010-04-09, 02:15 AM
Fixed my mistakes~ Yup yup~

:smallbiggrin:

Although the bag of chickens was a good idea~

Rainbownaga
2010-04-09, 02:44 AM
They still seem a little on the powerful side. Remember a challenge 1/2 encounter is supposed to be for things like orc/elf warrior; the idea that you get as much xp for killing a sheep or pig as an orc warrior seems a little odd, especially since the existence of the 'boar' implies that these are domestic pigs.

Of course, if the soul purpose of these is for creating zombie pigs and killer farm animals, then go for it.

Edit: Wanted to add that, as far as d&d goes, animals have a historical tendency to be bad ass; you've practically got to be an expert fighter to take on a bear, single wolves can kill even heavily armed norms with little issue, let alone what housecats are capable of. So killer sheep and pigs isn't as much an issue.

Ossian
2010-04-09, 02:51 AM
Hehe, very nice. Although i would drop the chicken“s strength to the minimum (like 1?) and make the damage non-lethal unless the little bastard pounces on your face and starts taloning your skin away

Kensen
2010-04-09, 02:53 AM
Since a number of bird species have been statted out in the MM, I suggest having a look at them and making the chicken a slightly less dangerous version of a bird of the same size since chickens aren't predators.

I think squirrels and rabbits also deserve to be statted out. :smallbiggrin:

Curiously enough, for the goblin game I'm designing, the first creature I statted out was actually a rabbit-like creature. :smallbiggrin: But it involves more hunting and survival than D&D, so it makes sense.

Real Sorceror
2010-04-09, 04:19 AM
*Buys a bag of chickens*
*Throws chickens at enemy*

Did you really mean to write "+" in those damage entries?
Chickens and sheep and pig are able to kill a grown man in a single blow?
A pig is less dangerous than a chicken?
A chicken is as dangerous as a strong man with a short sword?
Did you guys even play Legend of Zelda? I have personally been disemboweled by farm animals hundreds of times! I can only imagine how dangerous they must be in real life!

Zeta Kai
2010-04-09, 05:11 AM
Did you guys even play Legend of Zelda? I have personally been disemboweled by farm animals hundreds of times! I can only imagine how dangerous they must be in real life!

Those were cuccos, not proper chickens. Inasmuch as a gibdos is not a mummy, a stalfos is not a skeleton, & a redead is not a ghoul. The LoZ universe has very dangerous wildlife, which is why their cattle produce milk with such medicinal properties. :smallwink:

hamishspence
2010-04-09, 05:15 AM
For some mysterious reason, in Dragon Magazine, in a list of alternative familiars for arcane casters, rabbits, when they were mentioned, it said "use the cat statblock"

So, a rabbit would have the stats of a housecat. Mmm- killer rabbits....:smallbiggrin:

Ashtagon
2010-04-09, 05:18 AM
For some mysterious reason, in Dragon Magazine, in a list of alternative familiars for arcane casters, rabbits, when they were mentioned, it said "use the cat statblock"

So, a rabbit would have the stats of a housecat. Mmm- killer rabbits....:smallbiggrin:

What is their bite attack?

hamishspence
2010-04-09, 05:22 AM
Cats do 1d3-4 damage (minimum 1 point) with bite attacks.

Since rabbits do have sharp teeth and claws, this isn't all that silly.

A rabbit probably shouldn't be as stealthy as a cat though (my guess is that Dragon Magazine's suggestion was a "get you by" suggestion for those who don't want to stat out their own rabbits.)

For those that do, maybe the Vorpal Bunny from Monty Python & the Holy Grail would have a very nasty bite.


(Vorpal Bunny is just a nickname for it).

Shpadoinkle
2010-04-09, 07:01 AM
What is their bite attack?

Ever been bitten by a rabbit? It hurts like hell. They have strong jaws.

Dust
2010-04-09, 07:11 AM
That rabbit was DYNAMITE.

Rin_Hunter
2010-04-09, 07:52 AM
Ok, so these stats need a lot of work~

I'll be doing it later as I'll be going out soon, but I shall post again when I have finished.

jpreem
2010-04-09, 08:13 AM
Pigs shouldn't be small. A typical well fed ( for slaughtering) pig is at least 200kg = over 400 pounds.

hamishspence
2010-04-09, 08:23 AM
The Boar stats in the MM might do- just how different is a wild pig from a domesticated one?

Especially given D&D tends to be medieval in its agriculture- so the pigs might be closer, physically, to wild boars than present-day domestic pigs are.

Anonymouswizard
2010-04-09, 08:36 AM
Rabbits should have a +5 vorpal bite, and are allowed a re-roll if they don't get a critical threat.

Real Sorceror
2010-04-09, 08:52 AM
Rabbits should have a +5 vorpal bite, and are allowed a re-roll if they don't get a critical threat.
You forget that they can fly with perfect maneuverability and have DR 20/holy. Oh ya, and Great Cleave as a racial bonus feat. And Frightful Presence that activates when they charge or fly overhead. :smallfrown:

Yora
2010-04-09, 08:53 AM
"'tis no ordinary rabbit!"

Jack of Spades
2010-04-09, 08:59 AM
Ever been bitten by a rabbit? It hurts like hell. They have strong jaws.

I own a rabbit, and she's antisocial and evil. I can tell you, being bitten by a rabbit doesn't hurt.

Also, a rabbit's main form of attack is to scratch at things, using the same motion they would use to dig a hole. That is rather painful.


The Boar stats in the MM might do- just how different is a wild pig from a domesticated one?

Especially given D&D tends to be medieval in its agriculture- so the pigs might be closer, physically, to wild boars than present-day domestic pigs are.

Seconded. D&D is set back in the day when people would die in hog roping contests.

Also, maybe the pig should have some sort of representation of their truffle-hunting ability? They have the sense of smell of a bloodhound, but it only applies to food. Seems crunchworthy :smallbiggrin:

Finally, why no love for the squirrel that Kensen mentioned? :smallwink:
They're my favorite creature in Magic: The Gathering by far, don't see why they wouldn't be in D&D :smalltongue:

Eldan
2010-04-09, 09:02 AM
You should really have a look at size modifiers on attribute scores: a chicken, especially compared to similar animals, should have a strength score of one or two.

Oh, and I suggest giving Scent to pigs.

dspeyer
2010-04-09, 09:42 AM
The Boar stats in the MM might do- just how different is a wild pig from a domesticated one?

Especially given D&D tends to be medieval in its agriculture- so the pigs might be closer, physically, to wild boars than present-day domestic pigs are.

IIRC, domesticated pigs' tusks are removed when they are young. This means they lose their gore attack. I guess they get a slam attack in its place (1d6 bludgeoning instead of 1d8 piercing -- not much change).

The main difference is temperament. Pigs start as friendly toward humans and become helpful if you offer them food (and they'll eat almost anything).

hamishspence
2010-04-09, 09:53 AM
IIRC, domesticated pigs' tusks are removed when they are young. This means they lose their gore attack. I guess they get a slam attack in its place (1d6 bludgeoning instead of 1d8 piercing -- not much change).

Now, yes, but what about then?

DueceEsMachine
2010-04-09, 12:16 PM
Male pigs, or boars usually have tusks - at least the ones we used for breeding on the pig-farm I used to live on. They -could- be clipped, but it wasn't any fun. As for the size - I think the 200 kg ratio is a pretty good bet.

The other thing to remember, sows, or female pigs were usually fairly well-mannered until they had their first litter - then they got cantankerous and evil in a heartbeat. Often times even eating several of their offspring.

Pigs are notorious for eating almost anything - feathers, bones, you name it, they can digest it. It made butchering chickens quite easy - anything that wasn't mean - beaks, feet, ect, just went to the pigs.

That's another thing to remember. Even if they don't have tusks, they can bite like you wouldn't beleive. Even piglets can bite hard enough to take a chunk out of you if you're not paying attention. Fortunately, their mouths are usually too small to get a grip on legs/arms. Usually.

I don't know. I guess it's just idle thought, but hey, i've got experience living on a farm, so I thought I'd put in my 2 cents. Maybe it will help with some ideas.

Corporate M
2010-04-09, 01:18 PM
I would've been just fine with chickens being as powerful as a guy with a shortsword. I mean have you seen Legend of Zelda?

It's D&D, we should mess with the ecology.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-04-09, 01:33 PM
Chickens, guineafowl and peafowl
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2519985#post2519985

Also, check my link in my sig to the Compendium for...
Aurochs, Burl Tortoise, Canopy Scorpion, Dire Duck-Billed Platypus, Dropbear, Gamecock, Giant Archerfish, Hummingbird, Longhorse, Moa, Nibbleduck Swarm, Riverbeast, Skunk, Splittermaw, War Longhorse, Xoloitzcuintle