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Rin_Hunter
2010-04-10, 07:08 AM
Now, before I post anything I want you all to know that this was created for a high-power setting where undead are not automatically Evil and the creation of mindless undead is used as punishment by governments.

This Dread Necromancer was designed to have the earliest access to Animating and does it in the cheapest way possible because when employeed by the government it saves money and when they are villains it helps them make their army without the DM worrying where they are getting Black Onyx from.

Yes, you will think that this is over-powered, but this is actually balanced quite well against my other class variants, including the Wizard, Priest (Cleric), Sorcerer and Fighter.

Note that my setting uses Spell Points and the points that the class gets are noted here. SP means spell points and SL means spell level (The maximum that the class can cast at the given level).


Dread Necromancer

Hit Dice: d6
Skills (2+Int mod) Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int),
Disguise (Cha), Hide (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int),
Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Cha), Use Magic Device (Cha)

Lv BAB F R W SP SL Special
1 +0 +0 +0 +2 3 1 Charnel Touch, Rebuke Undead, Negative Energy Healing
2 +1 +0 +0 +3 4 1 DR2/B&M
3 +1 +1 +1 +3 5 1 Animate Dead
4 +2 +1 +1 +4 15 2 Negative Energy Burst 1/day, Advanced Learning, DR4/B&M
5 +2 +1 +1 +4 18 2 Fear Aura
6 +3 +2 +2 +5 36 3 Scabrous Touch 1/day
7 +3 +2 +2 +5 44 3 Summon Familiar
8 +4 +2 +2 +6 70 4 Advanced Learning, DR6/B&M, Undead Mastery
9 +4 +3 +3 +6 82 4 Negative Energy Burst 2/day
10 +5 +3 +3 +7 116 5 Craft Wondrous Items, Positive Energy Resistance 5
11 +5 +3 +3 +7 132 5 Lich Transformation, Scabrous Touch 2/day
12 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 174 6 Advanced Learning
13 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 194 6 Enervating Touch (Half Class level)
14 +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 244 7 Negative Energy Burst 3/day
15 +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 268 7 Positive Energy Resistance 10
16 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 326 8 Advanced Learning, Scabrous Touch 3/day
17 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 354 8 Enervating Touch (Class level)
18 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 420 9 DR20/B&M
19 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 452 9 Negative Energy Burst 4/day
20 +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 469 9 Advanced Learning, Positive Energy Resistance 15

Epic advancement
Lv Attack Save Special
21 +1 +0 Scabrous Touch 4/day
22 +1 +1 Bonus Feat
23 +2 +1
24 +2 +2 Advanced Learning, Negative Energy Burst 5/day
25 +3 +2 Bonus Feat, Positive Energy Resistance 20
26 +3 +3 Scabrous Touch 5/day
27 +4 +3
28 +4 +4 Advanced Learning, Bonus Feat
29 +5 +4 Negative Energy Burst 6/day
30 +5 +5 Positive Energy Resistance 25

x4 Advanced Learning
x5 Positive Energy Resistance +5
1, 6 Scabrous Touch +1/day
4, 9 Negative Energy Burst +1/day
31 (+3) Bonus Feat

Adjustments

Skills: Use Magic Device has been added all Arcane Full-Casters in my setting. Both Spellcraft and UMB are keyed to the caster's key spellcasting ability score in my setting (because it just makes good sense to me).

Weapons and Armour: The same as the book.

Negative Energy Healing (Su): This ability allows a DN who is still alive to be healed by negative energy effects (such as an inflict spell or a Charnel Touch). Note that this is a Supernatural Ability and is thus negated by an Antimagic Field or Dead Magic Zone. This was added to free up a feat slot... Because what Dread Necromancer doesn't take Tomb-Tainted Soul?

Charnel Touch: Loses the bonuses above the d8 damage and the minor healing it provides when you hit a target.

Damage Reduction: This advances quite quickly but is overlapped by the Lich's DR. There is an improvement at level 18 as I was trying to avoid dead levels and this is what I thought of to put in.

Negative Energy Burst: This does indeed hit the DN and provide healing under this variant of the class.

Animate Dead (Sp): Earliest access to the spell in the game as well as it being free for this class. Inspired by the Pale Master, to some degree. This spell is removed from their spell list.

Rebuke Undead: This is actually a feat in my setting and is based on HD, not "Effective Cleric level".

Craft Wondrous Items and Lich Transformation: Very early so that they can actually be usefull. Note that the Lich Transformation conforms to the minimum level a you can turn into a Lich anyway.

Positive Energy Resistance (Su): Just a bit of resistance to thos nasty, nasty Cure spells.

Advanced Learning: Eclectic Learning (I think that's how it is spelled), the Warmage variant in the PH2, is now the standard.

Everything else is pretty much the same.

Realms of Chaos
2010-04-10, 05:15 PM
hmmm... a couple of comments.

First, Animate Dead at will as an SLA at level 3 is a bit extreme. I know of no other class that gains a free supply of permanent minions, let alone ones that can be renewed in numbers so quickly.
While I wouldn't suggest pushing this ability back (it's clear that doing so is contrary to your goals), I would suggest at least switch this ability with the Warlock Invocation "The Dead Walk". In this way, it remains at will and you can get some free minions but your only permanent minions are the ones you pay for (perhaps halve the cost needed to keep them around).

Secondly, the DR advancement is just kind of wonky.
Level 2: DR 2
Level 4: DR 4
Level 8: DR 6
Level 18: DR 20??
I honestly don't know here but it seems as though there should be a consistent pattern.

My last quibble with this class is how you handled the lichdom. Nothing that you've said in regards to your alterations of other classes makes me thing that slapping on +4 LA at mid level with no consequences is balanced.
Furthermore, this guy doesn't have a capstone anymore, meaning that there is no reason to keep taking levels after level 11. This is probably intentional on your part but it still looks as if your trying to turn this 20 level class into an 11-level class with 9 levels of spellcasting PrCs.
While there is nothing particularly wrong with this, it seems kind of silly to even make those last 9 levels that no one will ever see. You, madam, should feel silly. :smalltongue:

Rin_Hunter
2010-04-10, 06:39 PM
Before I reply properly, I will say in the original post that you would think it is overpowered. This class is really aimed at having villains or solo-players use it, but I feel it still works as part of a group.

There are reasons I have made given Animate Dead there that touch a lot on my setting and other rules changes. Making Animate Dead a 3rd level spell for Wizards and Sorcerers was one of them. In play-testing, this ability has made players have Skeletons as quite expendable and only favourites are actually retained for the army. When I was playing it myself, I know that I've let at least 50 Skeletons just wander off because I no longer needed them. This ability alone makes it an amazing solo class, to be honest.

The DR improvement is above the Lich's DR of 15, so the class just lets you naturally advance something you gain from the race.

Actually, in standard play, a +4 level adjustment would cause those 4 levels to be lost completely, so your example should have been 11 levels of this class and 4 of another. Luckily most of my players don't consider PrCs and prefer to stick with just one class. They prefer to stick to one class and optimise that class as much as possible.

All-in-all, these changes were meant to make it more powerful and I feel that I have achieved this and don't feel silly. And just 5 hours ago my friend proved that this class was still beatable by using an Eldritch Spear and a critical hit to bypass my Skeletons and kill me, who was standing on a hill long-range Charnel Touching using Spectral Hand. If I had been a Lich at the time that would not have bothered me so much.

Realms of Chaos
2010-04-10, 07:58 PM
Ah, my apologies. :smallredface:

I did see that this was for a high-powered setting and that others would think it was overpowered. What I did not know was that this was intended for mostly solo play and villains... or that Animate Dead is only a third-level spell in your campaign.
...
Actually, it's pretty darn impossible to comment on any of this unless we know the general power level of the rest of your campaign. Can you provide more details so I can get a more complete look of what there is?

My DR comment was more about Aesthetics than actual power level. It's a bit high for normal play but that seems to be the entire point. I just like classes that look pleasing to the eyes in their design (because I'm crazy like that). :smallbiggrin:

I actually forgot that Dread Necromancers do have to pay for their Lichdom LA. :smalltongue: I've never seen someone get up to such a high level.

I guess that my true question should be what you intend to get out of posting this class here? We can't really praise or critique it with an incomplete idea of your setting.

Edit: Oh, silly me. I almost forgot that we can actually use it. Using it in a party of unaltered classes would be a bit tricky but anyone who wants a solo necromancer or an evil villain can really make it work for them.

Rin_Hunter
2010-04-10, 08:21 PM
Well, I'm not sure if you saw my Living Undead spell, but I mentioned my alternate DN there and it was requested that I show it all. And this can be used in a group, but it functions better as a villain or solo character because then it has more freedom in its creating.

---
A little about my setting

The setting is quite high-power. Several of the country leaders got there by being war heroes (or in the case of one of my main player's previous characters, toppling the mountain that the main enemy city is built on).

Epic characters are uncommon, but they are present and active. The current main King is an Epic level Paladin and often participates in any battles that arise between his nation and another, though he prefers the peaceful approach.

Magic is extremely common. Psionics is present, but is not the common way of doing things. Magic item shops are all over the place and often offer magic items just above cost.

At this time, Necromancy and the Undead are not considered taboo. In fact, the main city hold a festival every year on the first day of winter for those who choose to become a Necropolitan (the ritual has had a reflavour to be less Evil, same goes for the Lich's Phylactery).

Many undead are not Evil and live peacefully with living beings. Ghouls and Wights feed on chickens and cattle and such. Necromancers are hired by the government to raise executed prisoners who have been sentenced to hard labour after death, meaning a lot of the executed can't be resurrected because of the spells' time limits.

I have also invented a new type of creature called The Life, which are created near great sources of magic whenever someone is raised from the dead. These creatures can cause a character of equal hit dice an extreme amount of trouble due to their magic-absorbing abilities and are often hunted for their potent Life Dust, which is created when they are destroyed.

All of this added up needs more powerful base classes and this is one of the ones I've done.

---
And yes, feel free to use it. It can also explain why all those low level necromancers hiding in that mansion can control those undead without saying "just because".

Lord Loss
2010-04-11, 08:33 AM
If I knew the power lvl of your characters (their classes, levels and feats), because this is differently powered in the midst of Trip-Fighters than it is with Batman Wizards. I would regress the Lich Transformation to lvl 20, and reduce the DR.

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-11, 09:42 AM
Could you post your other class variants? Like the fighter?

JoshuaZ
2010-04-11, 01:15 PM
This is interesting. Your earlier remark that this moves up to Tier 2 is probably accurate: It lacks the sheer versatility to be tier 1 even with the modified form of advanced learning. (I've played with a tweaked DN but this one is much stronger than that one although may have less flexibility since one of the tweaks was Advanced Learning at every even level)

Rin_Hunter
2010-04-11, 02:49 PM
Lord Loss: The only one currently active is Lv7, quite basic equipment, and the feats are Corpsecrafter, Nimble Bones and Improved Initiative. It's a solo character and is doing rather well on its own. Moving the Lich Transformation was one of the big points of the variant and I see no problem with that damage reduction because chances are it can be bypassed by level 5+ anyway.

Tinydwarfman: I suppose I could. Haven't fully typed up the Fighter yet, but it won't be much trouble to type up.

JoshuaZ: Advanced Learning at every level? :smallconfused:

JoshuaZ
2010-04-11, 03:00 PM
JoshuaZ: Advanced Learning at every level? :smallconfused:

Every *even* level. That is, 2,4,6,8,10... rather than 4,8,12... This helps deal with their lack of spell selection a fair it.

Rin_Hunter
2010-04-11, 03:14 PM
Every *even* level. That is, 2,4,6,8,10... rather than 4,8,12... This helps deal with their lack of spell selection a fair it.

Ah~ Misread your last post~

The only low level spells I tend to use are Undetectable Alignment and Spectral Hand, so I could see that being useful.