Meet the Order's Newest Member

[Acero]

Let's say through some crazy act, a new member joined the OOTS, and you got to create him/her/it.Dont be afraid to include a backstiry of some sort and their interactions with the party
GO!

[waterpenguin43]

Let's say through some crazy act, a new member joined the OOTS, and you got to create him/her/it.Dont be afraid to include a backstiry of some sort and their interactions with the party
GO!

A lawful evil(?) sorceress or air shugenja femme fattale who seduces Elan, creating tension in the party. She gets along well with Belkar.
She lived in Tyrannar at a young age, and is on a kill Bill style quest to kill Tyrannar.

[JGoldenberg]

First of all, I don't think any of us can make a more interesting character than Rich, but here's a character nonetheless

A Chaotic Good Dragonblooded Assassin (I always thought that alignment restriction on Assassins was ridiculous so I always homebrew it out) under Girard's employ who travels with them to Kraggor's Gate after the eventual fall of Girard's Gate (Come on, we know that it's going to happen.)

[Ancalagon]

Before you get "creative", remember: Name + gender + race + class is NOT a character!

[Closak]

A half-dragon whose best friend got killed in the Familicide who joins the order to get at Vaarsuvius.

Bad things soon happens to V at every turn, and in the end the Elven Lands are set aflame, torching everything and killing tens of thousands of elves.

Then V get's blamed for the incident...[Insert sadist grin here]

Then the rest of the order kills him for screwing V over and causing so much damage.

The end.

[Dust]

Eugene Greenhilt. 'Nuff said.

[Acero]

or a monk that's stronger than Belkar just to prove him wrong.
might get along well with Roy

[Debatra]

Well, if we're including Canon Characters here, Raised/Attoning Miko.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Pun-Pun would be pretty interesting.

Actually, any of the TO builds would be interesting....

[Kish]

Pun-Pun would be pretty interesting.

Gah.


Actually, any of the TO builds would be interesting....
Do I want to know what TO stands for?

[Ancalagon]

Let's say through some crazy act, a new member joined the OOTS, and you got to create him/her/it.Dont be afraid to include a backstiry of some sort and their interactions with the party
GO!

You kickstart something like this and the following is all you had in mind? actually, I'm somewhat disappointed.


or a monk that's stronger than Belkar just to prove him wrong.
might get along well with Roy

There must be cooler additions to the Order. How about some pacifist sylph who also tries to become a lawyer? ;)

[Wulfang]

A goblin paladin fighting to find an alternate way to validate the rights of his/her race other than the Dark One's Plan.

Might also be Redcloak's niece. :smallbiggrin:

[Octopus Jack]

A LG halfling shaper psion who has been recording every single one of Belkars crimes and intends to use her incredible mind powers and small army of constructs to help the party with the gates until the quest is over and Belkar is arrested for every crime he has commited.
Turns out she lived in the settlement where Belkar grew up and where his crime spree started and has been following him waiting for the time to strike. (could possibly become romantically involved with Belkar in a very wierd way)

[Closak]

Spike the lizardman.

He would get along great with Roy.

Though chances are he try to strangle Vaarsuvius with his bare hands.

And he might try to kill Belkar if he ever ends up on the receiving end of one of his pranks.

Elan's stupidity would annoy him greatly and cause much facepalming and headdesking, but other than that they would get along pretty well.

He probably try to minimize interaction with Haley, suffice to say he does not like thieves (Or ninjas...he hates ninjas...for good reason, a ninja stole all his stuff once, didn't even leave his pants)

His combat style...something like an odd mix between Elan, Haley and Roy.

Constant taunts and insults flying left and right all the time while he fights (Elan goes with puns, Spike goes with insults and questioning your sexuality...and accusing you of being a mama's boy)

Plenty of sneak attacking involved, he likes to dance around his opponents and stab them in the back, he also enjoys using the environment itself as a weapon

And he fights with a sword, though he's more centered on speed and outmanouvering the enemy than Roy is.

...I put him at around level 12-13 somewhere...some sort of weird Rogue/Fighter hybrid that can make the enemy lose their tempers and make errors in judgement out of anger.

[Wulfang]

Though chances are he try to strangle Vaarsuvius with his bare hands.

Might I be the only one around here that's somewhere between annoyed and unnerved by your constant fantasies of killing Vaarsuvius and elves in general?

[Closak]

It's called Pay Evil Unto Evil (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PayEvilUntoEvil)

Vaarsuvius pulls the Familicide.

So now i want to pull Familicide on Vaarsuvius in return.

Let's see what he thinks when he's on the receiving end.

[Debatra]

Must...not...click...tvtropes...link........ *click*


GAH!!!

[Optimystik]

The Order seems fairly balanced as-is, so I can't think what to add. Perhaps a replacement for Belkar after he passes, assuming the quest is incomplete by then.

Or perhaps a conjurer. They need a fast-travel system, and the summons could also help with the front-line when Belkar is gone.


Do I want to know what TO stands for?

Theoretical Optimization... Basically, any of the more famous CharOp builds that would be unlikely to see the light of day at a gaming table - like the Diplo/Jumplomancer, the Hulking Hurler that can throw a planet, the Shadow Illusionist that can cast Miracle out of 3rd-level slots etc.

[Cleverdan22]

It's called Pay Evil Unto Evil (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PayEvilUntoEvil)

Vaarsuvius pulls the Familicide.

So now i want to pull Familicide on Vaarsuvius in return.

Let's see what he thinks when he's on the receiving end.

I don't understand how all lizardmen would automatically hate Vaarsuvius for killing that amount of black dragons. It doesn't really add up. Also, Vaarsuvius isn't exactly a fan of his recent actions either, and I don't see how killing off that many elves would help. It's that kind of escalation that started these things off anyway. V kills child Dragon. Dragon's Mother attempts to kill V's children and mate as retaliation. V retaliates with one of the most overkill spells ever. If Familicide were cast on V, what retaliation would be next? Wiping out all of the Dragon population?

[Asta Kask]

The Order seems fairly balanced as-is, so I can't think what to add. Perhaps a replacement for Belkar after he passes, assuming the quest is incomplete by then.

Krunk.

"Mercy?!? You wanted Mercy?!? I'm Chaotic Neutral!"

[Cleverdan22]

The Order seems fairly balanced as-is, so I can't think what to add. Perhaps a replacement for Belkar after he passes, assuming the quest is incomplete by then.

I'm thinking it will at least be very close to complete, so I'm not sure.
However, a conjurer could be useful, as teleportation does seem to be something that they are going to need more of sooner or later.

[Closak]

Actually, the reason he would try to strangle V is because of his/her incredibly arrogant attitude.

He has...issues with people who act like they are better than everyone else.
Though the genocide certainly helps.


And V did kinda start the whole mess.
It's only fair that he/she pay the price for it.

[slayerx]

Actually, the reason he would try to strangle V is because of his/her incredibly arrogant attitude.

Well not quite, after the soul bind and the divorce, V has been making an effort to become more humble and loose that arrogant attitude of his

[aberratio ictus]

A lawful evil(?) sorceress or air shugenja femme fattale who seduces Elan, creating tension in the party. She gets along well with Belkar.
She lived in Tyrannar at a young age, and is on a kill Bill style quest to kill Tyrannar.


A goblin paladin fighting to find an alternate way to validate the rights of his/her race other than the Dark One's Plan.

Might also be Redcloak's niece. :smallbiggrin:

I actually really like those two.

[Wulfang]

Actually, the reason he would try to strangle V is because of his/her incredibly arrogant attitude.

He has...issues with people who act like they are better than everyone else.
Though the genocide certainly helps.

Dunno if you've noticed, but V has certainly made sincere attempts at changing hir behaviour and has shown plenty of regret for hir actions.


And V did kinda start the whole mess.
It's only fair that he/she pay the price for it.

Ever heard the expression 'An eye for an eye makes the world go blind'? I'm sure V will have to pay some sort of price as part of hir redemption, but wiping out the elves would not certainly be right. Escalating cycles of vengeance never lead to any sort of resolution, only to meaningless bloodshed.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Might I be the only one around here that's somewhere between annoyed and unnerved by your constant fantasies of killing Vaarsuvius and elves in general?

No, no you are not.

Seriously, Closak. I'm sure you're a nice person and all, but your utter hatred of all elves, and your occasional posts consisting solely of *eats a half dozen elves* gets a bit disturbing at times.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

What do we have so far:

LG Human Fighter
LG Dwarven Cleric
N Elven Wizard
CG Human Bard
CG Human Rogue
CN Halfling Ranger/Barbarian

So half human, half-demi human. Therefore, I think, to round it out, we need a half-orc or half-elf.

I'd say a Neutral Good would work best. Even along chaos and law, and really we don't need another evil in a team of good. Wouldn't be funny.

Class-wise we have 2 battle oriented, 2 caster oriented, and 2 support oriented.

What do we really need? At this point everyone is sick of Paladins and Monks, and Sorcerer would be redundant with a wizard for all intended purposes.

So we're down to Druid. We've only met one so far, but as long as it is done right, without making him overshadow the others I don't see why not.

Two other suggestions.

#1. Psion. It's open content, is mentioned in passing, and would give the opportunity for many jokes on magic vs. psionics. Main problem though is that psionics are treated as a rarity or a pun and having an actual psionicists may not be as funny as the rare joke may be.

#2. Factotum. If I recall Rich had something to do with that class? Either way, it'd be amusing to have a mixed-up character who does a little of 'everything'. Being a half-breed would also tie into that. Only thing is he may usurp Elan who also can do a little of everything now.

All in all I think a neutral good half-elf druid would work, especially as it is a semi-standard build like most of the others in the Order (outside of Belkar whose meant to be opposite).

Now, personality wise? Lets try not to go all Greenpeace with him, that's Celia's job. Still needs to be funny. Someone who can get Durkon fired up, maybe show a bit more personality than he has so far. In the end has him make peace with the trees?

Hippy-type, maybe? Totally loves trees, man. Smoke a little hemp. Could be amusing, but sounds too much like a lame college skit.

Farmer type? Master of animals, grows things, but goblins burned crops. Rides his cow familiar or cowardly rooster.

Feral child of the woods? Would be amusing with what he could have been raised by.

Large, hairy guy who dallies with nymphs and dryads. Literal tree lover, gets sweaty when meeting a shapely willow? Makes jokes with Belkar about his 'ironwood'.

Half sea-elf whose afraid of the water? Has druidly powers over oceans and such, but tries to stay on land. Keeps summoning fish that die on land and get whisked back away. That'd be one way of keeping a druid's power down.

Any could work if done right I think.

[Kish]

Theoretical Optimization... Basically, any of the more famous CharOp builds that would be unlikely to see the light of day at a gaming table - like the Diplo/Jumplomancer, the Hulking Hurler that can throw a planet, the Shadow Illusionist that can cast Miracle out of 3rd-level slots etc.
Thanks. I am glad to say I don't expect the Dark Fiddler to get his wish. Those builds should be limited to one-off jokes, not actual main characters. :smalltongue:

[Maximum Zersk]

What do we have so far:

LG Human Fighter
LG Dwarven Cleric
N Elven Wizard
CG Human Bard
CG Human Rogue
CN Halfling Ranger/Barbarian

So half human, half-demi human. Therefore, I think, to round it out, we need a half-orc or half-elf.

I'd say a Neutral Good would work best. Even along chaos and law, and really we don't need another evil in a team of good. Wouldn't be funny.

Class-wise we have 2 battle oriented, 2 caster oriented, and 2 support oriented.

What do we really need? At this point everyone is sick of Paladins and Monks, and Sorcerer would be redundant with a wizard for all intended purposes.

So we're down to Druid. We've only met one so far, but as long as it is done right, without making him overshadow the others I don't see why not.

Two other suggestions.

#1. Psion. It's open content, is mentioned in passing, and would give the opportunity for many jokes on magic vs. psionics. Main problem though is that psionics are treated as a rarity or a pun and having an actual psionicists may not be as funny as the rare joke may be.

#2. Factotum. If I recall Rich had something to do with that class? Either way, it'd be amusing to have a mixed-up character who does a little of 'everything'. Being a half-breed would also tie into that. Only thing is he may usurp Elan who also can do a little of everything now.

All in all I think a neutral good half-elf druid would work, especially as it is a semi-standard build like most of the others in the Order (outside of Belkar whose meant to be opposite).

Now, personality wise? Lets try not to go all Greenpeace with him, that's Celia's job. Still needs to be funny. Someone who can get Durkon fired up, maybe show a bit more personality than he has so far. In the end has him make peace with the trees?

Hippy-type, maybe? Totally loves trees, man. Smoke a little hemp. Could be amusing, but sounds too much like a lame college skit.

Farmer type? Master of animals, grows things, but goblins burned crops. Rides his cow familiar or cowardly rooster.

Feral child of the woods? Would be amusing with what he could have been raised by.

Large, hairy guy who dallies with nymphs and dryads. Literal tree lover, gets sweaty when meeting a shapely willow? Makes jokes with Belkar about his 'ironwood'.

Half sea-elf whose afraid of the water? Has druidly powers over oceans and such, but tries to stay on land. Keeps summoning fish that die on land and get whisked back away. That'd be one way of keeping a druid's power down.

Any could work if done right I think.

Pretty well-thought out. I would kind of enjoy a half sea-elf druid that's afraid of water. Seems funny.

[The Dark Fiddler]

I am glad to say I don't expect the Dark Fiddler to get his wish.

Hey, me too. :smallwink:

[CrimsonAngel]

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/CrimsonAngelChris/oots/g268.png
She's a rogue... I don't know, she was in my photobucket so I pasted her here.

EDIT: Her name is Chrisallyn, she grew up on a circus caracan and was the bearded lady until she had enough. She murdered the Ringmaster, shaved, ran away, and got lost in the desert. She lived on cactus and mice until she ran into the Order and begged them to accept her in the party, atleast till they find a town. On their way to town, she proves her worth by holding her own against a swarm of scorpians. The order keeps her.

[Torick]

What do we have so far:

LG Human Fighter
LG Dwarven Cleric
N Elven Wizard
CG Human Bard
CG Human Rogue
CN Halfling Ranger/Barbarian

So half human, half-demi human. Therefore, I think, to round it out, we need a half-orc or half-elf.

I'd say a Neutral Good would work best. Even along chaos and law, and really we don't need another evil in a team of good. Wouldn't be funny.

Class-wise we have 2 battle oriented, 2 caster oriented, and 2 support oriented.

What do we really need? At this point everyone is sick of Paladins and Monks, and Sorcerer would be redundant with a wizard for all intended purposes.

So we're down to Druid. We've only met one so far, but as long as it is done right, without making him overshadow the others I don't see why not.

Two other suggestions.

#1. Psion. It's open content, is mentioned in passing, and would give the opportunity for many jokes on magic vs. psionics. Main problem though is that psionics are treated as a rarity or a pun and having an actual psionicists may not be as funny as the rare joke may be.

#2. Factotum. If I recall Rich had something to do with that class? Either way, it'd be amusing to have a mixed-up character who does a little of 'everything'. Being a half-breed would also tie into that. Only thing is he may usurp Elan who also can do a little of everything now.

All in all I think a neutral good half-elf druid would work, especially as it is a semi-standard build like most of the others in the Order (outside of Belkar whose meant to be opposite).

Now, personality wise? Lets try not to go all Greenpeace with him, that's Celia's job. Still needs to be funny. Someone who can get Durkon fired up, maybe show a bit more personality than he has so far. In the end has him make peace with the trees?

Hippy-type, maybe? Totally loves trees, man. Smoke a little hemp. Could be amusing, but sounds too much like a lame college skit.

Farmer type? Master of animals, grows things, but goblins burned crops. Rides his cow familiar or cowardly rooster.

Feral child of the woods? Would be amusing with what he could have been raised by.

Large, hairy guy who dallies with nymphs and dryads. Literal tree lover, gets sweaty when meeting a shapely willow? Makes jokes with Belkar about his 'ironwood'.

Half sea-elf whose afraid of the water? Has druidly powers over oceans and such, but tries to stay on land. Keeps summoning fish that die on land and get whisked back away. That'd be one way of keeping a druid's power down.

Any could work if done right I think.

I like the amount of thought put into this, and I can't find too much space to disagree. Well analyzed from both a mechanical and a character standpoint - if a new oots member was to arise, you wouldn't want him or her being too redundant with any of the others, in abilities or in personalities.

As for the suggestions you've given, I like the plot-handicapped druid idea, but for the personalities I'd say the first three are a bit threadbare (how much non-hackneyed material is really behind a farmer or raised-in-the-woods character?), and we really already have a sexually-aggressive-toward-strange-things character (not in the Order, but a tree-loving druid would sound a bit too much like a clone of the undead-loving Tsukiko).

But as for the half sea elf hydrophobic druid constantly struggling between her dislike of water and water-themed powers? That's comic gold, there, and it isn't redundant to anything we already have in the strip. Kudos :smallsmile:

[Acero]

You kickstart something like this and the following is all you had in mind? actually, I'm somewhat disappointed.


There must be cooler additions to the Order. How about some pacifist sylph who also tries to become a lawyer? ;)

Did I forget to mention...

His name is TK, former monk under Buggy-Lou, but was never truley accepted because he despised slavery and marinade. Instead, he preferred watching funny movies. TK wears dark sunglasses, a velvet robe, and yells, "Judo Chop!" every time he attacks. He is also proficient with spears, which he uses alongside his fists. He travels with the Order as a token of graditude for freeing him from the tribe when they killed Lou. Chaotic Neutral.

[zimmerwald1915]

It's called Pay Evil Unto Evil (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PayEvilUntoEvil)

Vaarsuvius pulls the Familicide.

So now i want to pull Familicide on Vaarsuvius in return.

Let's see what he thinks when he's on the receiving end.
I can create hyperlinks too. (http://www.fallacyfiles.org/twowrong.html)

I will probably edit this post to include something more germane to the thread when I have read more of it.

[Herald Alberich]

A goblin paladin fighting to find an alternate way to validate the rights of his/her race other than the Dark One's Plan.

Might also be Redcloak's niece. :smallbiggrin:

Belkar sees a goblin and kills it. The Order might be ok with this. Said paladin attacks Belkar for murdering her friend, they fight, and before the Order can render aid, she kills him with a Smite Evil, revealing her paladin status. The Order, though shocked at first, is definitely ok with this. Belkar out, LG goblin in.

Cue trust issues between the paladin and the evil ranger's teammates. Since we did Miko already, though, this paladin would work through them. And yes, her being the niece would be perfect. Oodles of opportunity for conflict with Redcloak, both physical and philosophical. Something really should cause Redcloak to start that soul-searching he's been avoiding.

I've posted this before. Not likely at all, but I'd like to see it happen. Of course, now that I've said that, it won't.

[Optimystik]

Might also be Redcloak's niece. :smallbiggrin:

Ugh, you have no idea how hard I'm kicking myself right now. Right-Eye's daughter would be the perfect addition, regardless of class.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Ugh, you have no idea how hard I'm kicking myself right now. Right-Eye's daughter would be the perfect addition, regardless of class.
...yes she would. That'd be awesome. So delete it before Rich sees

[the humanity]

Belkar's ex girlfriend.
:smallbiggrin:

[multilis]

Belkar's ex girlfriend.
:smallbiggrin:
Miko? :smallwink:

[the humanity]

Miko? :smallwink:

crack pairings much?:smallwink:

[gooddragon1]

Let's say through some crazy act, a new member joined the OOTS, and you got to create him/her/it.Dont be afraid to include a backstiry of some sort and their interactions with the party
GO!

Rathe Darkharrow (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=25301)

Rathe pops up in his newest incarnation (he's a blue psi-dragon) in 714 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0714.html). Channels 1000 power points into his breath weapon and blasts away the green dragon for 1006d8 (4483) electrical damage. The other half dragon explains that V is responsible for killing so many black dragons and supports the forces of good. Rathe counters that he is good aligned and is attempting to join their party. The blue half dragon drops Elan, charges, and says electricity won't work against him and that as a medium dragon Rathe has no chance. Rathe backhands him through the top of a building (he dies before he hits it) for 1d6+1000 (2+1000=1002) damage. Rathe touches V and shares reconstruction to completely cure V's str damage and regular damage, also fixes up Elan and Haley. Explains that he doesn't want a share of the treasure as he can make his own if he wanted just wants to help with something of cosmic importance and be remembered. On that note, Haley asks for a demonstration of treasure creating capability. Rathe creates a big ... diamond for her to give back to her intro page character and says that there are more important things in life than money but agrees to disagree on that point with her.

EDIT: TBPH though... when Rathe backhanded him with 4010 Strength behind his attack... the half dragon shouldn't have gone through a building... he should have chunked. Only problem there... is that this may be a bit too violent for this comic.

2.2171147989325515e+242 lbs as a light load to give an example of how much 4010 STR is.

EDIT 2: Weight of the observable universe in KG = Observable Universe 1e+55 Kilograms
KG to LBS = 1 kilogram = 2.20462262 pounds < 3 lbs
3e+55 lbs <<<<<<...<2.2171147989325515e+242 lbs

EDIT 3: And you thought Thog's power attack was bad... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0121.html)

[Procyonpi]

An Epic level chaotic Evil sorcerer lich!

Edit:

Belkar's ex girlfriend.

:belkar: : Hey! You mean some whore I slept with once. Monogomy and committed relationships are for suckers.

[Draconi Redfir]

2+2=5


holy math overload batman!

[Herald Alberich]

An Epic level chaotic Evil sorcerer lich!

I'm now trying to think of what possible reasons Xykon might have for teaming up with the Order. I don't believe there are any.

[gooddragon1]

holy math overload batman!

Was my math wrong? Or a bit over the top? I thought I was gonna get it for the textwall...

[Zxo]

Most interesting PC to join the Order?
A female. Flirt, romance, jealousy, wardrobe malfunctions are great material for jokes and Haley is out of it since she's in a serious relationship now. Also, Roy needs a new girlfriend.
A race different than the ones we've got already, like aasimar, tiefling, genasi, humanoid. Weird looks would give opportunities for more jokes.
Class? The party is pretty balanced and unless we need to replace someone who dies, I'd go with some obscure prestige class that doesn't make one super competent in everyday fighting, but gives specialized abilities which OoTS just happens to need to overcome the specific, rare challenges they will meet. Possibly something divine/druidish, like others said.
Alignment? I'd say something with a Neutral component, NG, LN, TN... Everyone in the party, except for V(?), is polarized and a bit of balance could be good.
Personality... this one is tough. Maybe mysterious, with a secret, keeping distance. We know so much about the party now that a new member who would have some secrets to be yet revealed and would fuel speculation would be interesting.

[Sholos]

The best person to join the Order? Nobody. It's good as is, and another character would ruin the balance, aside from being completely unnecessary.

[Scarlet Knight]

Two other suggestions.

All in all I think a neutral good half-elf druid would work, especially as it is a semi-standard build like most of the others in the Order (outside of Belkar whose meant to be opposite).

Hippy-type, maybe? Totally loves trees, man. Smoke a little hemp. Could be amusing, but sounds too much like a lame college skit.

Any could work if done right I think.

Love the idea! Can you imagine the pro tree/ antitree debates with Durkon? The giggling with Elan? V's frustration?

As for me, I recommend a LN ninja with no-name. Perhaps she has shadowdancing powers, also.

While the party is short 2 members, the ninja offers to help. States that her lord was killed in the Azure City takeover. Liegeless , she considered hara kiri, but was following the Order after they teleported the fleet to learn more of these Noble Northerners. As plot thickener, she can be after revenge, either on V or Elan because her lord was Kubota. Or She may be after Belkar as the sister of Yik Yik or Salt Larkyurg. I would have her succumb to the sexy shoeless god of war's charms but that would be too Therkla-esque. Unless she causes Belkar's death in flagrante delicto because he is so confident of his charms.

[Wulfang]

Ugh, you have no idea how hard I'm kicking myself right now. Right-Eye's daughter would be the perfect addition, regardless of class.

Out of the theories I've come up with, it's the one I love the most. Though, for certain, nothing assures us that the Order won't simply become a 5-person team after Belkar's death.

[Faramir]

While I love the Redcloak's niece idea I also wouldn't mind turning the general "get back at V" idea on its head. How about someone whose family/town was about to be killed by a black dragon (they are evil remember) but the dragon was killed by the familicide just in time. He or she is seeking V to thank him for what she did.

[Dr.Epic]

:thog:

because he's hilarious and after the Guild is defeated I want him to stick around.

[RMcMurtry]

I like the Redcloak's niece idea. Especially if she, for the first time, reveals Redcloak's real name in a "Hello, Uncle___________" moment

[Vinyadan]

An ultimate magus, possibly human.
:vaarsuvius: would suffer a lot because of him/her. First, V would not be anymore the doubtless master of arcane magic in the party, so he would grow gealous. Secondly, he would grow gealous towards someone who is a spontaneous spellcaster, which would give V a great loss of self-esteem.Things would grow even more complicated as V understand that the magus also is a wizard, and therefore cannot be supposed to be a lazy lucky man who possesses magic "because it happens".
It would be a chance of self-discovery for V. Also, the new character probably would be balanced enough to be liked by anyone else (sorcerer = charisma, wizard = intelligence), beside Belkar and Haley. I don't know why, but I think Haley would not stand someone made this ay.

[Basooned]

I do not believe the Giant would ever create a jealousy loveplot thing with another female character seriously, it happened with Therka and it was short lived to say the least :smallcool:

That and I think of Megatokyo and what happens when stories go from game parody to romance... *shudder*

[Phoenix Xul]

First of all, I don't think any of us can make a more interesting character than Rich, but here's a character nonetheless

You have some brown right here - :smallsigh:

Don't get me wrong, he's a great storyteller, but he's not some god among stories. Odds are, there are some incredible, potentially even professional, writers among the fanbase here.

Anyway, one of Julio Scoundrel's many illegitimate children (Potentially from the western continent?) would be cool, although personally I'd leave the character roster alone.

[Orzel]

Hon, the 4e halfelf star warlock from the FUTURE!

[Skeppio]

It's called Pay Evil Unto Evil (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PayEvilUntoEvil)

Vaarsuvius pulls the Familicide.

So now i want to pull Familicide on Vaarsuvius in return.

Let's see what he thinks when he's on the receiving end.

Exactly. I hope Io or someone comes down to nail it into V's head. I'd love to see a Half-Dragon join the party and snap V's neck when the time is right (aka: ASAP). Either that, or the Half-Dragon could be the bigger man and not slaughter V, leaving V feeling hollow, worthless and self-loathing. Just as he should feel.

[cocked_brow]

I like the Redcloak's niece idea. Especially if she, for the first time, reveals Redcloak's real name in a "Hello, Uncle___________" moment

"Hello, uncle_________. My name is___________. You killed my father... Prepare to die..."

[Asta Kask]

A Warblade!

[Closak]

I still stick with the belief that Spike the lizardman would fit perfectly.
The guy is comedy gold.

He could fill in for Belkar, best part is he's Chaotic Neutral (Leaning towards Good, but still enough of a jerkass to qualify as Neutral on the Good/Evil axis) and he actually has a sense of morals.
Unlike a certain halfling.
Still a total jerkass whenever he's annoyed at something though.

Making fun of people (Including himself apparantly) is what he does best.

...Some sort of weird Fighter/Rogue hybrid, (At least he fights like a mix of the two classes) about level 12-13 somewhere, seems to have extremely limited spell-casting (Third level spells at level 12 is...not that good...but better than Belkar who can't cast at all)

Has serious issues with not knowing when to shut up, is probably authistic.
He talks first and thinks later, which can cause problems when he insults the wrong person (Doesn't matter if the insult is true, it still pisses people of)

Has a thing for shooting people in the head.
He likes his headshots you see.
Setting them on fire works too.

[Water-Smurf]

Umm... Let's see...

Malkash, a True Neutral (borderline Neutral Evil) Dark Elven Druid who fights with a quarterstaff and has a viper for a familiar.

She would probably join the Order because the unraveling of the fabric of reality starts effecting the Underdark and she is sent out to find out what's wrong and, upon seeing the heroes that were supposed to stop it, she decides that she has to join to make sure they don't screw it up royally. There's some tension between her and Vaarsuvius because, while V's proven that s/he doesn't care much at all about race and more about intellect and prowess, Malkash deeply dislikes elves because they regularly go into the Underdark and raze the villages on the outskirts, one of which was hers. She usually harasses V in passive-aggressive ways--never to the point where Blackwing can't talk V down from a fireball, but definitely in a way that causes hostility. There's also tension between her and Durkon, though that's a little more one-sided as Durkon insists that she's working for the trees and always thinks she's trying to betray them. She ignores him for the most part.

She wears a lot of thick, long-sleeve, hooded cloaks to protect her sensitive skin from the sun and wears sunglasses to protect her eyes and keep from getting dazed. (Insert joke explaining how sunglasses exist in the first place.) She stays very quiet for the most part, only speaking when spoken to, and sometimes not even then. She feels that she can say what she needs to without having to blather all the time. What the Order doesn't know is that she's extremely paranoid and hypervigilent due to the environment she was brought up in (the Dark Elves aren't too nice), to the point where one could argue that she suffers from PTSD. Because of this, she rarely trances enough, is constantly suspicious of her companions, keeps something nice and pointy on her at all times, and she gets agitated if someone is behind her or between her and an easy exit. The only one she vaguely trusts is her animal companion, Vine, though she isn't comfortable with even him, something that causes him exasperation and no small amount of hurt. She gets intrusive trance memories of the various traumas she experienced as a child, not the least of which the razing of her childhood home, but she'd sooner die than tell anyone.

Interpersonally, she's not fun to be around, but professionally, she's actually a very good companion. If worse comes to worst, she can work together (provided she doesn't have to turn her back on anyone) effectively and she's very resourceful and streetwise. She knows how to manipulate or force information out of people and she's not above using seduction to do it. She also knows how to exploit weaknesses in people, making it easy for her to get things she wants out of others, and she is not too shabby at fighting or healing. Even her paranoia helps out--she's able to spot a threat easily and she knows how to guard against it.

She's a good resource to have despite the tension she causes, which makes Roy keep her around. No one is too happy with her there--along with Durkon and V, Haley doesn't like how she harasses V, Belkar thinks that she's no fun, Elan thinks she's mean, and Roy thinks she's a bit of a bitch--but she's useful and refuses to leave. Should she get a little more trusting and if her PTSD symptoms ease a little, she may form a tentative friendship with Elan and V--the former because his sweet innocence is stark against her nasty cynicism, and the latter because they both understand trauma and would come to respect each other's magical prowess and intellect if the racial issue was out of the way. Vine insists that this is good for her and plots with Blackwing to make this happen.

This would also offer an opportunity for conflict over race--the Order has technically worked with Dark Elves before, but in their experience, they've all been Evil. They're relatively blind to the idea that you shouldn't kill 'Evil' races for the sake of their race (except perhaps Roy). With a consistent partner that is a member of an 'Evil' race, they will start becoming more aware of the mistreatment they suffer and would be more open to the idea that goblins, drow, orcs, and the rest of them deserve equal rights. It could cause conflict with Redcloak because he doesn't stand up for drow, but here's someone who's suffered similar prejudice as him, basically standing up and saying that ending the mistreatment is not worth risking the very world.

This is sloppy, but screw it, I slapped it together on the spot.

[Basooned]

It should be a monk with a greatsword.

[Sholos]

Exactly. I hope Io or someone comes down to nail it into V's head. I'd love to see a Half-Dragon join the party and snap V's neck when the time is right (aka: ASAP). Either that, or the Half-Dragon could be the bigger man and not slaughter V, leaving V feeling hollow, worthless and self-loathing. Just as he should feel.

I'll point out that the remains of a disintegrated half-dragon are probably not all that different from the remains of a disintegrated dragon. Oh look, new "PC" is dead. Time to move on.

[Nilan8888]

The best person to join the Order? Nobody. It's good as is, and another character would ruin the balance, aside from being completely unnecessary.

I disagree. As long as the character is good and compelling it could only help a given situation. The only problem would be if there were too many characters to keep track of, and OOTS does a fine enough job of thinning its herd every once in a while.

A whole new member of the order would be great, but they would have to be "thier own thing" so to speak.

I think in creating a character we should think more in terms of story than stats or class. Make it different yes, but only becuase it will be fresh. And keep in mind when I say "story" I mean their OWN story. How will they affect the current story? WHO CARES: that will write itself if the character is drawn clearly enough. The story that is important with the character is thier own motivations, quests and desires and what drives THEM. If it's compelling enough people won't mind in the slightest that the search for the latest gate gets put off for months or even a year.

One thing the Giant hasn't really done is outright insanity. That might be an interesting place to start.

Right off the top of my head, I'd say go the psyonicist route. Maybe a Psyon who doesn't quite who he is and is a bit messed up in the head -- but in a way the order can work with. Like maybe he can flip alignments at the drop of a hat under pressure but it's pretty rare and normally he's something approaching a NG sort of guy. And there's a fair bit of humor to the guy a lot of the time. But underneath the surface his own power has done a serious number on his brain.

V might be scared to death of such a guy, just in concept. and even worse that he'd be an ally and not a foe.

[Sholos]

I disagree. As long as the character is good and compelling it could only help a given situation. The only problem would be if there were too many characters to keep track of, and OOTS does a fine enough job of thinning its herd every once in a while.

A whole new member of the order would be great, but they would have to be "thier own thing" so to speak.

I think in creating a character we should think more in terms of story than stats or class. Make it different yes, but only becuase it will be fresh. And keep in mind when I say "story" I mean their OWN story. How will they affect the current story? WHO CARES: that will write itself if the character is drawn clearly enough. The story that is important with the character is thier own motivations, quests and desires and what drives THEM. If it's compelling enough people won't mind in the slightest that the search for the latest gate gets put off for months or even a year.

One thing the Giant hasn't really done is outright insanity. That might be an interesting place to start.

Right off the top of my head, I'd say go the psyonicist route. Maybe a Psyon who doesn't quite who he is and is a bit messed up in the head -- but in a way the order can work with. Like maybe he can flip alignments at the drop of a hat under pressure but it's pretty rare and normally he's something approaching a NG sort of guy. And there's a fair bit of humor to the guy a lot of the time. But underneath the surface his own power has done a serious number on his brain.

V might be scared to death of such a guy, just in concept. and even worse that he'd be an ally and not a foe.

What exactly does this character bring to the table? Psions have been used as a one-off joke, but nothing else, and so suddenly making one a major player seems odd. Not to mention that adding another protagonist this late in the story seems odd just in the conception. I've always found that long, on-going stories do best if they build a main set of characters early on and stick with them.

To put it another way, a new main character would either have to shove his way into the story (in which case he'd be disruptive and a detriment to the story) or sit there quietly (in which case there really wasn't a point in adding him at all). It's simply been too long for a new character to have the same level of development without being completely out of sync with the others.

There's also the question of what the purpose of this new character would be. You say that this is not important, that it will grow from the new character's backstory. That being "good and compelling" is enough. I have to completely disagree with you, and in fact, I have to say that I hope never to see a new character whose backstory is their sole purpose. Not as a main character, anyways. I actually think that if a new character were to be brought into the party (and I've already explained why I think that's a bad idea), then they need to fill some sort of appropriate role. Being a good and compelling character is a co-requirement, but is not enough on its own.

Now, what makes a good role? Causing conflict with the established members isn't a good role. Celia did that really well, and how many people want her around permanently? Being a love interest for any of the characters (and let's be serious here, Durkon is the only reasonable one) is too shallow. We don't need anyone physical, and we also have the arcane and divine arts covered. We've got a skill monkey. So, really, what could a new character bring to the story that would be both worthwhile and require that they be a main character? Notice that I specifically included both, as things like conflicts for the established characters to resolve is best brought up by side characters.

So, if you really want to go down this path, start with a role/purpose for the character, and build from there. Always remember that a character's role in a story is the most important thing.


Exactly. I hope Io or someone comes down to nail it into V's head. I'd love to see a Half-Dragon join the party and snap V's neck when the time is right (aka: ASAP). Either that, or the Half-Dragon could be the bigger man and not slaughter V, leaving V feeling hollow, worthless and self-loathing. Just as he should feel.

I decided I wanted to touch on another point in this post. A point more worthwhile than my simple reply above.

V should not feel "hollow, worthless, and self-loathing." These are completely negative mental states, and, while it's important that V recognize the magnitude of the evil that he caused, it's also important that he remain mentally healthy if he ever wants to accomplish something good. In fact, if V were to get trapped in that mental state, it's actually more likely for him to do something on the same scale again. After all, it's not like he can get any worse, right? V needs an attitude that says, "I will be better than that," and "I am a better person than that." Not, "I am a horrible person and will never accomplish anything good," because he might just believe it and decide to embrace it.

[JonestheSpy]

I think a young girl who can walk through walls would be a good addition to any team.

[Nilan8888]

What exactly does this character bring to the table?

Something new.


Psions have been used as a one-off joke, but nothing else, and so suddenly making one a major player seems odd.

Why would it seem odd? At one time there wasn't even a single Paladin in OOTS. And then suddenly OOTS was filled with them.



Not to mention that adding another protagonist this late in the story seems odd just in the conception.

How do we know how late in the story it is or how early? That's defined by the writer and the writer can change plans any time they wish.



I've always found that long, on-going stories do best if they build a main set of characters early on and stick with them.

I've always found that with the same characters indefinately things can grow stale. At some point you've said everything you wanted them to say and explored all that you could with them. If there are other things you want to say that would necessitate another character well then why not? As long as it is and remains interesting. At some point your characters are going to be finished thier arc, and sometimes it's well before another character is done with thiers. Why not then introduce another when the oppertunity presents itself?


To put it another way, a new main character would either have to shove his way into the story (in which case he'd be disruptive and a detriment to the story) or sit there quietly (in which case there really wasn't a point in adding him at all). It's simply been too long for a new character to have the same level of development without being completely out of sync with the others.

Why has it been too long? There's nothing to say that it has. Every moment of the story can potentially bring in new and interesting characters until the climax is at hand. There's no rule that says you can't and there's no such thing as being 'in sync' with anyone. All that is required is development of the new character. And if it is entertaining, who would complain?

The first rule is the story. A new character introduced and executed properly will only add to that. This is not a mathmatical formula: there is no 'balance' of which to speak. There is only what works and what does not, and it is not defined by any time or place to create a character.


There's also the question of what the purpose of this new character would be. You say that this is not important, that it will grow from the new character's backstory. That being "good and compelling" is enough. I have to completely disagree with you, and in fact, I have to say that I hope never to see a new character whose backstory is their sole purpose.

I didn't say it is thier sole purpose. I said that it is thier PRIMARY purpose. It's the same as the current characters. V's primary purpose is his backstory, his struggle with power. Roy's is his own backstory and defeating Xykon. Haley's is finding her father and getting the courage to be with Elan. And on it goes.

Any main character has to be themselves first and service the plot second. If that character doesn't fit the purpose of that plot, you find another one that does.


Not as a main character, anyways. I actually think that if a new character were to be brought into the party (and I've already explained why I think that's a bad idea), then they need to fill some sort of appropriate role. Being a good and compelling character is a co-requirement, but is not enough on its own.

Now, what makes a good role? Causing conflict with the established members isn't a good role. Celia did that really well, and how many people want her around permanently? Being a love interest for any of the characters (and let's be serious here, Durkon is the only reasonable one) is too shallow. We don't need anyone physical, and we also have the arcane and divine arts covered. We've got a skill monkey. So, really, what could a new character bring to the story that would be both worthwhile and require that they be a main character? Notice that I specifically included both, as things like conflicts for the established characters to resolve is best brought up by side characters.

Actually causing conflict with your characters is PRECISELY a good role for a new character. Without conflict there is no story: period.

But you are correct: the character must have a role to play. Thier use must have something to say.

But the divine/skill monkey/physical roles? Malarky, a new character doesn't have to fill any one of those things. Those aren't story roles, they're RPG stereotype slots. Sure, a monk or psyionicist creates variety, but if it helps the story and it's a good character I don't think a writer should hesitate for a second to create a second mage, a second thief or a second fighter. Any work should be about the story first and about the group battle mechanics second.



So, if you really want to go down this path, start with a role/purpose for the character, and build from there. Always remember that a character's role in a story is the most important thing.

Absolutely: if that role is story related. If it's anything other than that, throw it away and see what you can match it up with later. The story comes first, not things like who is hitched up or is playing the fighter part or not.

[Elfey]

I like the Redcloak's niece idea. Especially if she, for the first time, reveals Redcloak's real name in a "Hello, Uncle___________" moment

I love the general idea, but I think his name must never be said as part of what he is. Redcloak has sacrificed everything for the plan, his name is small beans, but symbolic.

[silvadel]

An actual ranger who can track etc and makes belkar look like an incomp (and hence going on his hate list) and upstages haley's arrows(making her upset) and has tensions with V. Eventually to become a replacement for belkar when he dies.

[Draconi Redfir]

just becuse im bored, i provide the order with one of my charicters:



Gicko Redfir (the scout) the true-neutral Bugbear Ranger. (No this is not self-insert, Gicko is just one of my D&D characters :P)


Gicko is a headstrong woman who is quite easy to provoke. Attempts to seduce her are often met with violence, and insults to her, or her tribe, are often met with death.


Gicko's weapon of choice is her ancestral Elvin swordbow (see avatar), taken from a downed Elf during an event over thirteen generations ago were the Redfir tribe was liberated from enslavement from the Drow with the assistance of a large group of elves looking to free their own people. The Redfir tribe has lived alongside these Elves in the Sowidi rainforest ever since, providing and receiving aid whenever it is necessary. because of this, Gicko gets along relatively well with Vaavisuvus(sp?) though the feeling may not be mutual. Gicko is also engaged in a bit of a friendly rivalry between herself and Haley, as they both specialize in Bow weapons, Gicko however, can use her bow as a double-bladed sword free of penalty should the need arise.


Gicko also sports a pair of gills along her neck, given to her by a magic potion she drank early in her newfound career as a player character. While not overly useful, they provide a small bonus to swim checks, and allow her to breathe underwater.






though in all honestly i too would love Redcloaks Neice to appear as the next order member. it just makes sence :P

[Scarlet Knight]

Gicko Redfir (the scout) the true-neutral Bugbear Ranger.

Gicko is a headstrong woman who is quite easy to provoke. Attempts to seduce her are often met with violence, and insults to her, or her tribe, are often met with death.

Gicko also sports a pair of gills along her neck, ...



So, she's a bugbear with gills, and she has to chase off seducers? :smallconfused:

[Draconi Redfir]

So, she's a bugbear with gills, and she has to chase off seducers? :smallconfused:

the gills are kinda hard to see, and most of the seducers send to be non-humans such as other bugbears :P

its not like she gets a hundred seducers eavry day though. she's just a very indipendent woman.

[Snake-Aes]

If it's not remarkable...why mention it on a short resume?

[gooddragon1]

If it's not remarkable...why mention it on a short resume?

What a perfect idea... why not make a Resume for Rathe?!?! Ha... if only I weren't a lazy sack of ... but maybe I'll do it anyway :smalltongue:

[Sholos]

What a perfect idea... why not make a Resume for Rathe?!?! Ha... if only I weren't a lazy sack of ... but maybe I'll do it anyway :smalltongue:

Because Rathe is a bad character, and if you carry a joke too far, it dies. Let it be.


Something new.
That's not a good enough reason by itself. It's just a requirement.


Why would it seem odd? At one time there wasn't even a single Paladin in OOTS. And then suddenly OOTS was filled with them.
Yes, there were. As side characters. Notice that none of them stuck around, and no one wanted them to.


How do we know how late in the story it is or how early? That's defined by the writer and the writer can change plans any time they wish.
There's only two more Gates available, and I know there's a post around (or it's in one of the commentaries) that we're around half-way through or something like that; and, while an author can change plans in the middle of a story, it's typically seen as weak writing to do so without good reason. Introducing an unnecessary character would not be a good reason.


I've always found that with the same characters indefinately things can grow stale. At some point you've said everything you wanted them to say and explored all that you could with them. If there are other things you want to say that would necessitate another character well then why not? As long as it is and remains interesting. At some point your characters are going to be finished thier arc, and sometimes it's well before another character is done with thiers. Why not then introduce another when the oppertunity presents itself?
Because when you've said everything you want to about your main characters and explored everything you can, it's time to end the story, not keep them around with new characters. If there's things that need a new character to be said, then they can be said with a side character. You say that as long as it remains interesting. I say that it will not remain interesting, for a variety of reasons that I have already set forth. As to some characters finishing arcs before others, well of course that's going to happen. That's just how stories work. Those characters either fade out (if they're side characters) or stick around. If they become boring, that's a failing of the author, not an inevitability. Introducing more characters means you either have to get rid of old ones or suffer from character overload, neither of which is acceptable here. It would work in a work that established a rotating cast early on, but OOTS is obviously the stable party type of story.


Why has it been too long? There's nothing to say that it has. Every moment of the story can potentially bring in new and interesting characters until the climax is at hand. There's no rule that says you can't and there's no such thing as being 'in sync' with anyone. All that is required is development of the new character. And if it is entertaining, who would complain?
Look at how long it has taken for the character development to take place in the characters we already have. A new character would either have to have his development artificially fast, or it would extend the story unnecessarily, or the development would be cut short. None of these are good.


The first rule is the story. A new character introduced and executed properly will only add to that. This is not a mathmatical formula: there is no 'balance' of which to speak. There is only what works and what does not, and it is not defined by any time or place to create a character.
I agree for side characters that this is true. However, like I said earlier, it's way too late to be introducing new characters. It'd be like introducing a brand new main character into a TV show in its 8th season with only a few seasons to go and a lot of story to cover. Oh, and no new protagonists have been introduced since the very first episode. See why I think this isn't a good idea?


I didn't say it is thier sole purpose. I said that it is thier PRIMARY purpose. It's the same as the current characters. V's primary purpose is his backstory, his struggle with power. Roy's is his own backstory and defeating Xykon. Haley's is finding her father and getting the courage to be with Elan. And on it goes.
And what is this person's reason for existing? So far, the only half-way decent possibility I've seen is Redcloak's niece, and even she would make a better side character than a permanent addition.


Any main character has to be themselves first and service the plot second. If that character doesn't fit the purpose of that plot, you find another one that does.
Yes, but that character needs to fit into the plot well, and another protagonist at this point doesn't.


Actually causing conflict with your characters is PRECISELY a good role for a new character. Without conflict there is no story: period.
Again, this is a role best suited to side characters, not a brand new protagonists. We've already got plenty of conflict between the members, so there's no need for another angle to come in and screw up the dynamic that we've got.


But you are correct: the character must have a role to play. Thier use must have something to say.

But the divine/skill monkey/physical roles? Malarky, a new character doesn't have to fill any one of those things. Those aren't story roles, they're RPG stereotype slots. Sure, a monk or psyionicist creates variety, but if it helps the story and it's a good character I don't think a writer should hesitate for a second to create a second mage, a second thief or a second fighter. Any work should be about the story first and about the group battle mechanics second.
They do, because this is, in addition to a story group, a D&D group. If you're redundant, you're either upstaging one of the established characters (something we certainly don't want from a permanent addition) or being upstaged (again, something we don't want).


Absolutely: if that role is story related. If it's anything other than that, throw it away and see what you can match it up with later. The story comes first, not things like who is hitched up or is playing the fighter part or not.
By your logic, Girard would make a perfect addition to the party. He'd certainly bring lots of conflict, and I have no doubt that he's a well developed character with his own foibles and desires. He's also something new. So, what's wrong with him?

[danielmayer]

an evil half-celestial monk with two greatswords?

as the Order is a fixed group an should keep sticking to that, I'd like to have some guest appearances from OoPCs.
Frudu? ....but....four attacks(*cry*)? perhaps those-who-stormed-Hell?:smallredface:

[Tannhaeuser]

I'm a bit surprised no-one has suggested That Guy With A Halberd yet...

[Snake-Aes]

an evil half-celestial monk with two greatswords?

as the Order is a fixed group an should keep sticking to that, I'd like to have some guest appearances from OoPCs.
Frudu? ....but....four attacks(*cry*)? perhaps those-who-stormed-Hell?:smallredface:

As far as we know, if Four Attacks Guy is the same level as belkar he's probably dishing out more damage :p

[Nilan8888]

That's not a good enough reason by itself. It's just a requirement.

Sure it is. If you've figured out how the character would work and not destroy the narrative, its as good a reason as any.


Yes, there were. As side characters. Notice that none of them stuck around, and no one wanted them to.

No they weren't. The first paladin didn't appear, even as a side character, until after Durokan's dungeon. And the ones introduced have stuck around: Hinjo, O'Chul, Thanh, Lien... the last mention of the last 3 has been within the last 5-6 strips.



There's only two more Gates available, and I know there's a post around (or it's in one of the commentaries) that we're around half-way through or something like that; and, while an author can change plans in the middle of a story, it's typically seen as weak writing to do so without good reason. Introducing an unnecessary character would not be a good reason.

PPOR. How is it 'typically seen as weak'? How could it be if you as the reader don't know exactly when that midpoint is? The number of gates left could have nothing in particular to do with the story: those could take as long or as short as the writer wishes to be resolved.

Frankly the only necessary character the story at this point is Roy. There's plenty of good reason to introduce a new character because it would be the same as the other characters: because there's another facet to the story the writer wants to cover.



Because when you've said everything you want to about your main characters and explored everything you can, it's time to end the story, not keep them around with new characters. If there's things that need a new character to be said, then they can be said with a side character. You say that as long as it remains interesting. I say that it will not remain interesting, for a variety of reasons that I have already set forth. As to some characters finishing arcs before others, well of course that's going to happen. That's just how stories work. Those characters either fade out (if they're side characters) or stick around. If they become boring, that's a failing of the author, not an inevitability.

First you say that when you've said everything there is to say about your charaters then it's time to end the story and not keep them around. Then you say characters finishing thier arcs before or after others is just how stories work.

Well.... which is it?

You seem to say that there's no possible way a new character can work at this point. There are many things impossible in this world but this simply isn't true. There's nothing I know that offers any particular proof of this as a tautology.


Introducing more characters means you either have to get rid of old ones or suffer from character overload, neither of which is acceptable here. It would work in a work that established a rotating cast early on, but OOTS is obviously the stable party type of story.

What is this 'stable party type of story'? Where is that defined? I don't recall there being a category for such a thing. Introducing a new character doesn't automatically mean you've overloaded your story, and in any cast the story does a fine enough job of removing characters to keep the numbers low, either by killing them off or putting them on a bus. One character does not an overload make.



Look at how long it has taken for the character development to take place in the characters we already have. A new character would either have to have his development artificially fast, or it would extend the story unnecessarily, or the development would be cut short. None of these are good.

Character development doesn't always take place at the same rate. A new character doesn't have to stay around for over 600 strips before it has a semi-romantic arc with a ninja Orc. Or 650 before they become engaged with thier quest for power (in fact before that point V's arc had little to no impact on the story -- Elan at least had Nale dropping in now and again). A new character could potentially tackle thier arc sooner after thier introduction. And considering 600-650 is still the clear majority of the strips, that's not exactly a unfathomable change of pace.


I agree for side characters that this is true. However, like I said earlier, it's way too late to be introducing new characters. It'd be like introducing a brand new main character into a TV show in its 8th season with only a few seasons to go and a lot of story to cover. Oh, and no new protagonists have been introduced since the very first episode. See why I think this isn't a good idea?

Don't they do this on LOST? They didn't bring in the character of Juliet until the 3rd season. They didn't bring in Miles Straume until the 4th. There's 6 seasons altogether. The former died just recently but that wasn't an absolute necessity (it could have been one of the mains that died instead). Miles is still running around with the rest of the main cast despite the fact he was introduced MORE than halfway through, and has found time to meet his father and have his own dedicated arc.



And what is this person's reason for existing? So far, the only half-way decent possibility I've seen is Redcloak's niece, and even she would make a better side character than a permanent addition.

It could be anything the author wants to say, as long as it's compelling. What, after all, does THerkala have to do with Xykon? What does Haley's father?


Yes, but that character needs to fit into the plot well, and another protagonist at this point doesn't.

Sure they can. If they're unique and interesting there's no reason they wouldn't fit into the plot any worse off then Durkon or V.


Again, this is a role best suited to side characters, not a brand new protagonists. We've already got plenty of conflict between the members, so there's no need for another angle to come in and screw up the dynamic that we've got.

Actually the conflict between the members is decresing. Roy and Elan, notably. Roy and most of the members, in fact. Elan and Haley have gotten thier relationship on a comparatively better path. V is on his/her way to being less of a jerk.



They do, because this is, in addition to a story group, a D&D group. If you're redundant, you're either upstaging one of the established characters (something we certainly don't want from a permanent addition) or being upstaged (again, something we don't want).

Firstly if the characters are assigned thier own seperate tasks I don't see how one could upstage the other. Secondly upstaging in itself brings potential conflict. And it doesn't matter who upstages who at any point of the story as long as the right character asserts themselves by the climax.


By your logic, Girard would make a perfect addition to the party. He'd certainly bring lots of conflict, and I have no doubt that he's a well developed character with his own foibles and desires. He's also something new. So, what's wrong with him?

Nothing. Put him in.

[Sholos]

Sure it is. If you've figured out how the character would work and not destroy the narrative, its as good a reason as any.
Have you ever heard of the KISS method? It applies to lots of things, and I think it applies here. Just because a new protagonist could theoretically be introduced doesn't mean one should be. There needs to be a reason beyond, "I can do this."


No they weren't. The first paladin didn't appear, even as a side character, until after Durokan's dungeon. And the ones introduced have stuck around: Hinjo, O'Chul, Thanh, Lien... the last mention of the last 3 has been within the last 5-6 strips.
Okay, I was agreeing with you that there were suddenly "lots" (if you take one character as being lots) of paladins introduced. Regardless, I'll have you note, once again, that all of the characters you named are side characters. No one (well, most people) wants to see those characters become protagonists. They work as side characters.


PPOR. How is it 'typically seen as weak'? How could it be if you as the reader don't know exactly when that midpoint is? The number of gates left could have nothing in particular to do with the story: those could take as long or as short as the writer wishes to be resolved.
Please provide some examples of books series and/or shows where the writer(s) have completely changed their plans mid-series and the series did not suffer for it.


Frankly the only necessary character the story at this point is Roy. There's plenty of good reason to introduce a new character because it would be the same as the other characters: because there's another facet to the story the writer wants to cover.
No, all the other characters are necessary. Everyone still has story to conclude, and everyone still has something to contribute. A new protagonist for the sake of having a new protagonist isn't a good idea. There needs to be a solid reason, something to explore that is both necessary to the story and impossible to do with the current protagonists, and requires a new protagonist in the story, in order to justify adding another protagonist. I haven't seen anyone come up with anything, and I don't really think there is.


First you say that when you've said everything there is to say about your charaters then it's time to end the story and not keep them around. Then you say characters finishing thier arcs before or after others is just how stories work.

Well.... which is it?
What I said was that when the story is done, for all the characters, it's time to end the story as a whole. Just because a protagonist's arc is "over" doesn't mean their story is, and it certainly doesn't make them suddenly redundant.


You seem to say that there's no possible way a new character can work at this point. There are many things impossible in this world but this simply isn't true. There's nothing I know that offers any particular proof of this as a tautology.
No, what I said was that it would be next to impossible to introduce a new protagonist and have it done well as well as being unnecessary. Creating a new protagonist is, of course, trivial, but, again, that doesn't mean it should be done.


What is this 'stable party type of story'? Where is that defined? I don't recall there being a category for such a thing. Introducing a new character doesn't automatically mean you've overloaded your story, and in any cast the story does a fine enough job of removing characters to keep the numbers low, either by killing them off or putting them on a bus. One character does not an overload make.
Well, I thought the term was easy enough to understand, but I'll go ahead and spell it out. The core party group of the story (Roy, Elan, V, Haley, Durkon, and Belkar) has not changed since the very first strip. That's over 700 strips with plenty of opportunities to add another protagonist in. Any guesses on why that hasn't happened yet? This simple fact also makes it incredibly unlikely that another protagonist will suddenly show up out of the blue.

As for your comment that the story does a fine job of removing characters, I'll again have you note that that only applies to side characters, not the protagonists.


Character development doesn't always take place at the same rate. A new character doesn't have to stay around for over 600 strips before it has a semi-romantic arc with a ninja Orc. Or 650 before they become engaged with thier quest for power (in fact before that point V's arc had little to no impact on the story -- Elan at least had Nale dropping in now and again). A new character could potentially tackle thier arc sooner after thier introduction. And considering 600-650 is still the clear majority of the strips, that's not exactly a unfathomable change of pace.
They could, yes, but then it's going to feel rushed. Imagine if half the party's arcs had been completed by strip 400. Wouldn't that have felt rushed to you? And even now, all of the protagonists still have things to work out. It takes a lot of time to build a good protagonist, and I don't think there's room for another.


Don't they do this on LOST? They didn't bring in the character of Juliet until the 3rd season. They didn't bring in Miles Straume until the 4th. There's 6 seasons altogether. The former died just recently but that wasn't an absolute necessity (it could have been one of the mains that died instead). Miles is still running around with the rest of the main cast despite the fact he was introduced MORE than halfway through, and has found time to meet his father and have his own dedicated arc.
LOST is a perfect example of what happens when writers decide to not go ahead with the original plan (which was to have, what 2 or 3 seasons and then end it?). LOST is, at this point, a horrible show that just needs to die. Also, LOST made it clear from the beginning that people would be dieing left and right. OOTS is not built this way, and is more built around the concept of following the same characters the entire way through.


It could be anything the author wants to say, as long as it's compelling. What, after all, does THerkala have to do with Xykon? What does Haley's father?
She doesn't have anything to do with Xykon, but she sure had something to do with both Elan (who had to control his normal seduce-the-hot-female-villain routine) and Kubota (who was, at the time, a fairly non-inconsequential enemy). She didn't just appear out of the blue. Haley's father has been her motivating factor for over 700 strips now. Can you see how a new protagonist wouldn't really compare?


Sure they can. If they're unique and interesting there's no reason they wouldn't fit into the plot any worse off then Durkon or V.
No, unique and interesting does not a protagonist make. They are requirements, yes, but they are requirements for any character that has significant screen time. There are plenty of those already that did not suddenly become protagonists.


Actually the conflict between the members is decresing. Roy and Elan, notably. Roy and most of the members, in fact. Elan and Haley have gotten thier relationship on a comparatively better path. V is on his/her way to being less of a jerk.
And that's a good thing. There's no need to ratchet the inter-party conflict, especially when you consider that all the drama would be centered around this new protagonist. In fact, a new person causing trouble would more realistically get kicked out than kept around, and if they're somehow necessary to beating Xykon? *Shudder* I hope to never see that kind of character suddenly introduced.


Firstly if the characters are assigned thier own seperate tasks I don't see how one could upstage the other. Secondly upstaging in itself brings potential conflict. And it doesn't matter who upstages who at any point of the story as long as the right character asserts themselves by the climax.
Yes, upstaging matters. If some other arcane caster is suddenly doing everything better than V, then that's a bad thing. If some new ranger is suddenly a better fighter and tracker than Belkar, then that's a bad thing. If we get a better ranged character who can still hold their own in melee (upstaging Haley and Elan together), then that's a bad thing. Upstaging your steady protagonists with a new one is never a good idea, and tends to reek of Mary Sueness.


Nothing. Put him in.
Yes. Yes there is something wrong with him. Girard would make a horrible permanent addition to the party. He's so far above their power levels as to be ridiculous, and it would just cause unnecessary strife amongst the already established party members.

[Asta Kask]

Tiasal, Redcloak's and Vaarsuvius' certifiably insane daughter from a parallell dimension. Very powerful wizard, but prone to cutting herself and use Dominate Person on her surroundings when she feels bad. Or good. It's a little difficult to tell.

[Wulfang]

Well Sholos, I was completely agreeing with you until this part here:


is a perfect example of what happens when writers decide to not go ahead with the original plan (which was to have, what 2 or 3 seasons and then end it?). LOST is, at this point, a horrible show that just needs to die. Also, LOST made it clear from the beginning that people would be dieing left and right. OOTS is not built this way, and is more built around the concept of following the same characters the entire way through.

There buddy, you just shot yourself in the foot. Not only was LOST always planned to about the number of seasons it turned out to have, the writers had Fox sign a contract that prohibited them from cancelling the show without warning them 2 years in advance.

And even if they had changed their plans halfway, I don't get why people say things like "LOST is a horrible show that just needs to die." The sixth season (the last one, in case you don't know) has been my favorite one so far, and I know plenty of people who think the same.

[Sholos]

Well Sholos, I was completely agreeing with you until this part here:

There buddy, you just shot yourself in the foot. Not only was LOST always planned to about the number of seasons it turned out to have, the writers had Fox sign a contract that prohibited them from cancelling the show without warning them 2 years in advance.

And even if they had changed their plans halfway, I don't get why people say things like "LOST is a horrible show that just needs to die." The sixth season (the last one, in case you don't know) has been my favorite one so far, and I know plenty of people who think the same.

If your opinion was completely changed by that one passage, then I can't believe that you actually agreed with me in the first place.

Whether LOST is a "good" show or not is up for debate, but I know a lot of people who think that it's gone on far too long, and these are people who enjoyed the first several seasons.

On another note, I find it very amusing that I'm one of the very few people actually taking the topic seriously. Most people are just proposing ridiculous joke characters.

[Wulfang]

If your opinion was completely changed by that one passage, then I can't believe that you actually agreed with me in the first place.

It wasn't completely changed by that one passage. As I said, I was completely agreeing with you on all your points (and still am), except for that one.


Whether LOST is a "good" show or not is up for debate, but I know a lot of people who think that it's gone on far too long, and these are people who enjoyed the first several seasons.

Have you watched the entire show?

[Water-Smurf]

Tiasal, Redcloak's and Vaarsuvius' certifiably insane daughter from a parallell dimension. Very powerful wizard, but prone to cutting herself and use Dominate Person on her surroundings when she feels bad. Or good. It's a little difficult to tell.

I see what you did there, Asta. :smallamused:



On another note, I find it very amusing that I'm one of the very few people actually taking the topic seriously. Most people are just proposing ridiculous joke characters.

*raises hand* I took it semi-seriously. Only I took it as an opportunity to try to slap together a believable character rather than thinking of a character made to make the most literary sense.

[Snake-Aes]

It wasn't completely changed by that one passage. As I said, I was completely agreeing with you on all your points (and still am), except for that one.



Have you watched the entire show?

You know...

LIKING a show relies exclusively on how much the show's content and presentation please the watcher. Akin to music, religion and the like, shows, tv series and books by definition can never be "Good", "Bad" or just about any quality we give to them. They do not posses it.

YOU like lost. That means Lost is "good for you".
YOU don't like lost. That means Lost is "not good for you".
General consensus only means too many people share the same opinion. That doesn't make the show Good, Bad,Boring,Enervating, or anything.

[Sholos]

It wasn't completely changed by that one passage. As I said, I was completely agreeing with you on all your points (and still am), except for that one.
Oh, okay. It just seemed like you were saying that one passage made you disagree with me. Better understood now.


Have you watched the entire show?
I've watched the entire first season, and it was starting to lose me at the end. I think I stopped watching sometime during the second season.


I see what you did there, Asta. :smallamused:

*raises hand* I took it semi-seriously. Only I took it as an opportunity to try to slap together a believable character rather than thinking of a character made to make the most literary sense.

I did mentally include yours, and others that were of similar detail, in the "very few" people that were taking this seriously.

[Wulfang]

You know...

LIKING a show relies exclusively on how much the show's content and presentation please the watcher. Akin to music, religion and the like, shows, tv series and books by definition can never be "Good", "Bad" or just about any quality we give to them. They do not posses it.

YOU like lost. That means Lost is "good for you".
YOU don't like lost. That means Lost is "not good for you".
General consensus only means too many people share the same opinion. That doesn't make the show Good, Bad,Boring,Enervating, or anything.

Yes, and? Anything in my post made you think I don't know that? I went on this tangent simply because Sholos posited that LOST was an example of a show that has become 'horrible and needs to die' due to the authors supposedly changing their minds.

And that, in itself, is either disputed or subjective, which is exactly why I called him out on it.


Oh, okay. It just seemed like you were saying that one passage made you disagree with me. Better understood now.

Sorry if my post was confusing, then. :smallwink:


I've watched the entire first season, and it was starting to lose me at the end. I think I stopped watching sometime during the second season.


Well, then I guess it just wasn't your type of show. I completely agree that one could easily get lost (pun so totally intended) in the first seasons due to how many seemingly unconnected plot points they constantly introduced, but it really has paid off massively in seasons 5 and 6.

[Asta Kask]

And I think that Tiasal would make an interesting addition to the Order. It would be especially fun to see how she interacted with V...

[Scarlet Knight]

On another note, I find it very amusing that I'm one of the very few people actually taking the topic seriously. Most people are just proposing ridiculous joke characters.

I'd like to re-support the idea of Vorpel Tribble's hippie druid & do so seriously.

The importance of jokes in this comic sometimes gets lost. It's nice that the plot moves along, but the presence of comedy is the payoff for our reading.

Now, does he HAVE to join the order? No. Six personalities & back plots are plenty. But just like Mr Scruffy & Blackwing have added to the Order without being essential is something we should remember.

A mellow hippie druid would add contrast without always adding conflict; if anything I'd like to see him as "anti-harsh".

His mellowness would contrast with Belkar's violence. It would contrast Vaarsuvius's excessive focus (Especially if he gets along with Blackwing & Mr Scruffy extremely well) . His love of nature can play off Durkon's arborial fears & perhaps Haley's greed. He can be the focus of nature jokes, drug jokes, amnesia jokes, pop culture jokes, & so much more.

I believe this character would add alot and would not be shocked if a lover of everything living would end up being the key to defeating the dead villian.

[Nilan8888]

Have you ever heard of the KISS method? It applies to lots of things, and I think it applies here. Just because a new protagonist could theoretically be introduced doesn't mean one should be. There needs to be a reason beyond, "I can do this."

Sure. "This is the story I want to tell". I understand how KISS can be applied but considering this is an epic tale of 700-plus seperate comics at this point I don't see how KISS is particularly violated as long as the new character's story is straightforaward enough and told clearly.



Okay, I was agreeing with you that there were suddenly "lots" (if you take one character as being lots) of paladins introduced. Regardless, I'll have you note, once again, that all of the characters you named are side characters. No one (well, most people) wants to see those characters become protagonists. They work as side characters.

O'Chul in particular could change on this point. But you are correct: most of these remain as side-characters.



Please provide some examples of books series and/or shows where the writer(s) have completely changed their plans mid-series and the series did not suffer for it.

Star Wars, the original trilogy. Darth Vader was not originally intended to be Luke's father. But The Empire Strikes back was clearly the best of the entire series, improving on the original.



No, all the other characters are necessary. Everyone still has story to conclude, and everyone still has something to contribute. A new protagonist for the sake of having a new protagonist isn't a good idea. There needs to be a solid reason, something to explore that is both necessary to the story and impossible to do with the current protagonists, and requires a new protagonist in the story, in order to justify adding another protagonist. I haven't seen anyone come up with anything, and I don't really think there is.


No they're not you're just saying they are. The main story here is the Gates and Xyklon/Redcloak's plans for them. Elan's romances have nothing to do with that. Presently V's persuit of power had nothing in and of itself to do with that. Durkon's banishment has nothing to do with that. Haley's father has nothing to do with that.

If those arcs are your definition of a "necessary character" than it's more than easy to place a new character into the narrative and make them compelling.



What I said was that when the story is done, for all the characters, it's time to end the story as a whole. Just because a protagonist's arc is "over" doesn't mean their story is, and it certainly doesn't make them suddenly redundant.

Then my original point holds. Thank you. Just becuase you've finished telling everything you want with one character doesn't mean you can't start up something either with another character or someone totally new.



Well, I thought the term was easy enough to understand, but I'll go ahead and spell it out. The core party group of the story (Roy, Elan, V, Haley, Durkon, and Belkar) has not changed since the very first strip. That's over 700 strips with plenty of opportunities to add another protagonist in. Any guesses on why that hasn't happened yet? This simple fact also makes it incredibly unlikely that another protagonist will suddenly show up out of the blue.

I know that's what you're getting at but that's not a type of story. That's just how this one's happened to be written at this point, it's not any particular convention that I'm aware of other than the same convention any story has: following a main character(s). That there were plenty of oppertunities before doesn't mean it won't happen.



They could, yes, but then it's going to feel rushed. Imagine if half the party's arcs had been completed by strip 400. Wouldn't that have felt rushed to you? And even now, all of the protagonists still have things to work out. It takes a lot of time to build a good protagonist, and I don't think there's room for another.

Why would a new element of pacing feel rushed if it takes 300 strips to reach instead of 600? At some point the pacing of hundreds of strips just probably isn't going to be noticed.

Yes, if V encountered another part of his quest for power arc right now that would be too soon: bat that owes more to the fact that no significant arc has much happened since then as well as the fact that it's been less than a hundred strips since that arc concluded. once we start talking 200 or so strips, that's a different level of pacing.



LOST is a perfect example of what happens when writers decide to not go ahead with the original plan (which was to have, what 2 or 3 seasons and then end it?). LOST is, at this point, a horrible show that just needs to die. Also, LOST made it clear from the beginning that people would be dieing left and right. OOTS is not built this way, and is more built around the concept of following the same characters the entire way through.

Horrible show? You mean the show cited by Stephen King and (more importantly) Harlan Ellison as among the best on TV? The same one to incorporate full-blown narrative testimonials to "Slaughterhouse Five"?

Thier original concept couldn't possibly have been for only 2 or 3 seasons: I think that you're thinking what they expected was likely. It should have been clear to them that if the series was popular it would last longer.

The mere fact you called LOST "a horrible show" should be clear evidence you're not on firm grounding for what you're talking about. What exactly is your definition of a 'good show'? Unless you're going to count 'The Wire' as a superior show, I don't see how this would be the case. I've seen the showtime stuff: 'The Sopranos', 'Dexter' -- it's ok stuff. LOST has been superior. Season 4 in particular.



She doesn't have anything to do with Xykon, but she sure had something to do with both Elan (who had to control his normal seduce-the-hot-female-villain routine) and Kubota (who was, at the time, a fairly non-inconsequential enemy). She didn't just appear out of the blue. Haley's father has been her motivating factor for over 700 strips now. Can you see how a new protagonist wouldn't really compare?

No, becuase all you're doing is referencing the pacing as your excuse. But when your pacing requirement is 600 strips in, that's a wide enough berth. Xykon and the gates are the essential plot. Roys quest to stop him is the central plot. all this other stuff? As you would put it, "unessential". And your only justification is that they've been there for so long.

And I say: so what? A well-written enough new protagonist can outshine an older one. A new person comes out of the blue but what of it? All the characters at some point came out of the blue. If as a writer all you can come up with are awkward scenarios for a new character's introduction than clearly you're not trying hard enough, or you're not in the mood to write today.



No, unique and interesting does not a protagonist make. They are requirements, yes, but they are requirements for any character that has significant screen time. There are plenty of those already that did not suddenly become protagonists.

Then what does a protagonist make? That they've been there from the beginning of the story? It seems an uncreative rule to me.



And that's a good thing. There's no need to ratchet the inter-party conflict, especially when you consider that all the drama would be centered around this new protagonist. In fact, a new person causing trouble would more realistically get kicked out than kept around, and if they're somehow necessary to beating Xykon? *Shudder* I hope to never see that kind of character suddenly introduced.

That's a good thing for the CHARACTERS, but not the story. Story is conflict: that's one of the first things they teach you. No conflict, no story. Less conflict, less story.

"Causing trouble" can mean many things, none of them necessarily getting kicked out of the group, especially if everyone else has no problem with them. It would be pretty silly to try to include a new character that at least half the group hated. That just wouldn't work for very long, though it might be interesting: Miko being a case in point where she was hated by everyone except Roy for a long time. Yet she was also one of the most popular characters in the strip.

Inter-party conflict's a great thing. It makes stuff interesting, it makes stuff happen. One of the reasons there's been drag of late was becuase there wasn't all that much inter-party conflict.



Yes, upstaging matters. If some other arcane caster is suddenly doing everything better than V, then that's a bad thing. If some new ranger is suddenly a better fighter and tracker than Belkar, then that's a bad thing. If we get a better ranged character who can still hold their own in melee (upstaging Haley and Elan together), then that's a bad thing. Upstaging your steady protagonists with a new one is never a good idea, and tends to reek of Mary Sueness.

Mary Sueness isn't related to a character's skill level: it's related to a character's perfection. A caster of greater power than V that plots revenge against the Goblins or against the Lizardmen or is certifiably insane is not a Mary Sue. They're simply more powerful. Confronted with with superior power's a great thing for your main characters to handle: especially if you have things set up for a reversal later in the story where V outdoes his/her former superior.



Yes. Yes there is something wrong with him. Girard would make a horrible permanent addition to the party. He's so far above their power levels as to be ridiculous, and it would just cause unnecessary strife amongst the already established party members.

Far above power levels like Obi-Wan and Luke Skywalker? Like Merlin and Arthur? Gandalf and rest-of-the-Fellowship?

[licoot]

A tree, just to stir things up with durkon:smallsmile:

[gooddragon1]

Because Rathe is a bad character, and if you carry a joke too far, it dies. Let it be.

I'm just having fun. Whether or not people find it funny is meh.

Rathe Darkharrow
The Town Mailstop/9001
The Town, Multiverse 10000
Phone: 777-666-1337
E-mail: [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: A position in the Order of the Stick.

EDUCATION: Self educated in psionics through special abilities.

EXPERIENCE: Killed 1 Great Wyrm Red Dragon in a single round without the benefit of surprise.

LANGUAGES: Common, Draconic, English, Gnoll, Halfling, Sindran, Undercommon

ABILITIES: Blindsense, Breath Weapon, Create/Destroy Water, Immunities, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Keen Senses, Naturally Psionic, Psionics, Recall Matter, Reconstruction, Special Qualities

MOST NOTEABLE SPECIAL ABILITY
Reconstruction (Su)

If Rathe would die, his soul remains and is conscious (he can see normally out to a distance of 30 feet), and any time thereafter he can grow a new body at a location of his choice (his soul travels to the location instantly) or he may choose to repair the damage to his body and re-inhabit it (if he chooses to do this, his hit points are set to -1 (his nonlethal damage is set to 0) and he heals damage according to the healing rate described later in this ability (as long as there is any remaining portion of his body larger than a 1 centimeter cube he can do this)). The constituent parts of the body are created from ectoplasm or any non-living matter in the area (his choice), then molded and transformed into an exact duplicate of his body that is in perfect condition (no effects that would cause him to die against his will carry over) and he may choose its physical age (up to the maximum age he ever attained). Rathe may choose to create his body from nothing, but this takes an additional round in which he must create the components of his body. This process takes 2 rounds (1 round to create the parts and 1 round to mold the body). When the second round ends, Rathe completely and totally inhabits the new body. Rathe then possess all the abilities he possessed when he died, but he has none of his equipment. If the body is destroyed before Rathe can inhabit it or while he is inhabiting it, then the process starts again. Rathe cannot die of natural causes or old age. Rathe is immune to effects that would destroy, alter, or remove his soul against his will as well as charms, compulsions, fear, and age altering effects. Beneficial effects affecting Rathe cannot be removed, ended, or suppressed before their duration elapses unless Rathe allows it (this protection extends to Rathe's abilities (such as his fear aura) as well). Rathe does not need to eat food or drink water to survive although he may eat or drink if he chooses to. If Rathe would become sickened or nauseated he recovers instantaneously from these conditions. Rathe does not get physically tired and is immune to artificially induced sleep as well as fatigue and exhaustion (although he must still sleep) and can thus perform tasks that would require rest after use due to fatigue continuously without needing to rest at all. Rathe is immune to nonlethal damage and critical hits. Rathe cannot gain negative levels or suffer level loss. Rathe immediately recovers from all types of ability damage and drain (including ability burn). Rathe's non-ability stats cannot be reduced by any means (such as his maximum HP being decreased by the blazefire of a lavawight). Rathe recovers instantly from blindness, deafness, and all other physical or mental afflictions. Rathe can share the healing functions (such as accelerated healing, limb regeneration, ability decrease removal, etc... (using his hit point total)) with another living creature by maintaining physical contact with it (though both Rathe and the creature must be willing). Rathe can opt to not feel pain which negates the need for him to make concentration checks to continue an action if he takes damage (such as when manifesting a power) and makes him immune to certain effects (such as the penalties inflicted by a symbol of pain). At any point in time, if duplicate parts of his body exist (blood, limbs, organs, anything), he may will them to disintegrate and leave no trace of their existence. Rathe has knowledge of the existence of all duplicates of his body parts regardless of location. Rathe may also choose to disintegrate portions of himself or his entire body as a free action, however he takes 5d6 damage for disintegrating a portion of himself that is currently attached to him and dies if he would naturally die from loss of enough portions (disintegrating his entire body causes him to die instantly (this ability can only be triggered by his will and cannot be used against it)). If Rathe would ever become incapable of manifesting powers (except while he is willingly asleep for up to 24 hours or more if he specifies it before going to sleep and then no longer than that amount) or mindless, he may choose to trigger a special version of this ability which causes his current body to disintegrate as though it were a duplicate and the process of growing a new body to ensue (after the process is completed, the effects that caused him to trigger the ability are permanently removed and Rathe is restored to the state prior to being affected (if Rathe becomes mindless or otherwise incapable of choosing, the ability triggers automatically and the effects removal as well as the restoration of status occur immediately after his consciousness leaves his body)). Whenever Rathe's HP total is decreased below it's maximum by any means, it instantly returns to his maximum (unless such damage would be sufficient to kill him outright). Whenever Rathe's power points decrease by any means they instantly return to maximum. If Rathe loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows when the damage dealt that caused the limb to be lost is healed (either by this ability or any other healing) or 2 rounds (whichever takes less time). Rathe can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump. This ability, the protection it grants, and the healing it provides to Rathe cannot be negated, bypassed, removed, or suppressed by any means.

[ZakRenning]

I, personally, am a supporter of Vorpal Tribble's notion of the hydrophobic Half-Water Elf. :smallbiggrin:

[Dvandemon]

Umm... Let's see...

Malkash, a True Neutral (borderline Neutral Evil) Dark Elven Druid who fights with a quarterstaff and has a viper for a familiar.

She would probably join the Order because the unraveling of the fabric of reality starts effecting the Underdark and she is sent out to find out what's wrong and, upon seeing the heroes that were supposed to stop it, she decides that she has to join to make sure they don't screw it up royally. There's some tension between her and Vaarsuvius because, while V's proven that s/he doesn't care much at all about race and more about intellect and prowess, Malkash deeply dislikes elves because they regularly go into the Underdark and raze the villages on the outskirts, one of which was hers. She usually harasses V in passive-aggressive ways--never to the point where Blackwing can't talk V down from a fireball, but definitely in a way that causes hostility. There's also tension between her and Durkon, though that's a little more one-sided as Durkon insists that she's working for the trees and always thinks she's trying to betray them. She ignores him for the most part.

She wears a lot of thick, long-sleeve, hooded cloaks to protect her sensitive skin from the sun and wears sunglasses to protect her eyes and keep from getting dazed. (Insert joke explaining how sunglasses exist in the first place.) She stays very quiet for the most part, only speaking when spoken to, and sometimes not even then. She feels that she can say what she needs to without having to blather all the time. What the Order doesn't know is that she's extremely paranoid and hypervigilent due to the environment she was brought up in (the Dark Elves aren't too nice), to the point where one could argue that she suffers from PTSD. Because of this, she rarely trances enough, is constantly suspicious of her companions, keeps something nice and pointy on her at all times, and she gets agitated if someone is behind her or between her and an easy exit. The only one she vaguely trusts is her animal companion, Vine, though she isn't comfortable with even him, something that causes him exasperation and no small amount of hurt. She gets intrusive trance memories of the various traumas she experienced as a child, not the least of which the razing of her childhood home, but she'd sooner die than tell anyone.

Interpersonally, she's not fun to be around, but professionally, she's actually a very good companion. If worse comes to worst, she can work together (provided she doesn't have to turn her back on anyone) effectively and she's very resourceful and streetwise. She knows how to manipulate or force information out of people and she's not above using seduction to do it. She also knows how to exploit weaknesses in people, making it easy for her to get things she wants out of others, and she is not too shabby at fighting or healing. Even her paranoia helps out--she's able to spot a threat easily and she knows how to guard against it.

She's a good resource to have despite the tension she causes, which makes Roy keep her around. No one is too happy with her there--along with Durkon and V, Haley doesn't like how she harasses V, Belkar thinks that she's no fun, Elan thinks she's mean, and Roy thinks she's a bit of a bitch--but she's useful and refuses to leave. Should she get a little more trusting and if her PTSD symptoms ease a little, she may form a tentative friendship with Elan and V--the former because his sweet innocence is stark against her nasty cynicism, and the latter because they both understand trauma and would come to respect each other's magical prowess and intellect if the racial issue was out of the way. Vine insists that this is good for her and plots with Blackwing to make this happen.

This would also offer an opportunity for conflict over race--the Order has technically worked with Dark Elves before, but in their experience, they've all been Evil. They're relatively blind to the idea that you shouldn't kill 'Evil' races for the sake of their race (except perhaps Roy). With a consistent partner that is a member of an 'Evil' race, they will start becoming more aware of the mistreatment they suffer and would be more open to the idea that goblins, drow, orcs, and the rest of them deserve equal rights. It could cause conflict with Redcloak because he doesn't stand up for drow, but here's someone who's suffered similar prejudice as him, basically standing up and saying that ending the mistreatment is not worth risking the very world.

This is sloppy, but screw it, I slapped it together on the spot.
This ftw, can I use it for my story?

[deuxhero]

I'd say any new member would be an existing character, like O-Chul.

[Acero]

I'd say any new member would be an existing character, like O-Chul.

pretty difficult to work in though

[Degnared]

I actually think O-Chul is pretty likely, between the imminent death of Belkar and Rich's mention of O-Chul having a large role in the next book. O-Chul has even already been a protagonist of sorts in his captivity arc, including a team up with Vaarsuvius, a standard protagonist. His part has gradually grown from his first appearance as Shojo's doorman.

[Water-Smurf]

This ftw, can I use it for my story?

Go ahead. Please just give me credit. :smallsmile:

[Draconi Redfir]

O-chul and Redcloaks neice would both be awsome additions :smallbiggrin:

[Ceaon]

What do we have so far:

LG Human Fighter
LG Dwarven Cleric
N Elven Wizard
CG Human Bard
CG Human Rogue
CN Halfling Ranger/Barbarian


Wait, what? You forgot Belkar (you know, the CE Halfling Ranger/Barbarian) and added another, unknown halfling ranger/barbarian to the OotS... :smallwink:

Other than that, great post. I especially like the feral child.

[The Hop Goblin]

I think a lot of people are forgetting the main concept of the comic: Which is to poke fun at standard D&D Tropes. Not only the system (five foot steps, charge rules, etc), the character stereotypes (Miko), but also the behaviors of the playership. One of which is that people leave and join groups all the time (thus bringing or taking their characters with them).

I don't see that a new OOTS member is entirely out of the question, nor that one or more members of the original might leave/die/etc.

Most likely if this were to happen, I'd see a character so out of tune with the rest of the party join up, make all the wrong moves both socially and mechanically, and act like a lone-wolf within the party. Within a short amount of time, (s)he'll just..... not be there. Explained hastily as having run off in the night with a goblin princess or something (thus, pointing at a DM's often hastily story reason why a player's character is no longer there).

[Pyron]

I had an few ideas about a possible new addition.

The first idea is that this new PC would come from the World 3.0. I think that has some potential, because the Order will eventually come to that plot thread. That alone will give the this character a purpose, to serve as some exposition about the third world (which nobody knows anything about). Not only that, but if Xykon's plan threatens this world then this character will have a reason to travel with the order.

The second idea is that the new character could be a fourth edition character of some sort. This will make the most sense. New World, new rule set. Additional, this character can also be an outlet to 4e-related humor.

Beyond that, I haven't the foggiest about what class. For a race; I'd go with something more exclusive to the 4e's PHB (Eladrin, Dragonborn, etc) to further highlight how out of place this character might feel.

Just a few random ideas.

[Morithias]

Name: Lupin
Alignment: LN
Class: Generic Expert/Merchant Prince/Exemplar.

A brutal display of power and change in the world. Lupin arrives on scene after the order stays in his hotel, after a hard time in town. He gets up to join them on their quest explaining that his is min/maxed to the point where his businesses don't even have to have him on site to make a profit.

He hails from one of the ever changing places in the continent. He is a traveling merchant who seems money as a mean to an end, and often lampshades the fact that "Given the basic rules in the DMG craft item tables V, I could make a ring that gives me a +20 to all my attacks for 8000 gold, that isn't even magical." He is quick to point out that his ravenloft based "create device" feats let him make magical item substitutes, meaning that his ring of wish, is technically stronger than V's as it cannot be ruined by disjunction.

He is only on board for the trip to the next city, and although is arrogant about his money and power, he only does it to down play the more arrogant members of the party, leaving Haley (Who he sees as noble and after weaseling her story out of her) says he will pay for her father's release if she 'promises to come to his aid if she is in the area and he needs it'. He also does not insult Elan or 'the cleric' (never really got talking to him too much), seeing them as pure souls.

He has a cohort named 'Mikaru'. Who is optimized for spreading gossip and propaganda. She often boosts about her level 5 propagandist ability, which she often quotes as 'an ability that can tell rule 0 to shove it RAW'. (And yes that is the ability of that class at level 5).

Spoiler: Their builds.

Lupin


Class is Generic expert 5/merchant prince 5/exemplar 20 (in that order)

1 : Jack of all trades, Merchantile Background, Skill focus (merchant), Negotiator, Business Savvy
2 : Favored in Guild
3 : Create Device (Wonderous Item)
4 : Create Device (Construct)
5 :
6 : Leadership
7 :
8 :
9 : Guildmaster
10:
11:
12: Create Device (wands)
13: Open minded
14:
15: Rulership
16: Skill focus (Shop)
17:
18: Greater Skill focus (shop)
19: Open Minded
20:
21: Landlord
22: Epic Skill focus(shop)
23:
24: Epic Leadership
25: Epic skill focus(shipping)
26:
27: Legendary Commander
28: Epic Skill focus(Diplomacy)
29:
30: Epic skill focus(innkeeper)


Mikaru

Regular Expert 3, Rumormonger 3, Courtier 5, Exemplar 1, Propagandist 5, Exemplar 4, Epic inflitrator 7

1:Sharp ears, Alertness, Judge Difficulty,Hearthlore
2:
3:Skill focus (gather information)
4:
5:
6:Sharp Wit
7:
8:
9:Machiavellian
10:
11:
12:Mesmerizing
13:
14:
15:Skill focus (bluff)
16:
17:
18:Greater skill focus (bluff)
19:
20:Skill focus (diplomacy)
21:Polygot
22:
23:
24:Epic skil focus (bluff)
25:
26:
27:Epic SKill focus (gather information)
28:


(Yes they are very munchkined, but done in such a way that they would be useless in most camps)

[Acero]

I actually think O-Chul is pretty likely, between the imminent death of Belkar and Rich's mention of O-Chul having a large role in the next book. O-Chul has even already been a protagonist of sorts in his captivity arc, including a team up with Vaarsuvius, a standard protagonist. His part has gradually grown from his first appearance as Shojo's doorman.

Didn't Rich say O-Chul won't be really playing a part in this book?

[hamishspence]

Didn't Rich say O-Chul won't be really playing a part in this book?

To be precise:

I know that O-Chul has become a fan favorite, so let me take this moment to assure you all: O-Chul has a major part to play in this story. He's not done yet. He will, however, be offstage for most (if not all) of the next book, so you may need to practice your own brand of enduring.

[RMcMurtry]

What about the wizard Xykon lost out to in SoD? She might still be around, even out to destroy Xykon.

[ChristianT]

Ever heard the expression 'An eye for an eye makes the world go blind'? I'm sure V will have to pay some sort of price as part of hir redemption, but wiping out the elves would not certainly be right. Escalating cycles of vengeance never lead to any sort of resolution, only to meaningless bloodshed.

Keep in mind that the IFCC will be getting V for their allotted time after (s)he dies.