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View Full Version : If ANY spell could be permanent, what would be most broken?



draco_nite
2010-04-11, 10:51 PM
Excluding instantanious spells, of course. That wouldn't make sense.

Milskidasith
2010-04-11, 10:54 PM
Time stop? Infinite actions is pretty nice. Can't recall, but I think it is instantaneous, though.

Also, you might want to say if any spell could be instantaneous (I.E. can never be removed); permanent spells can just be dispelled. Basically any extremely high level buff could work in that case. The problem is, being "permanent" is, while useful, not necessary for TO anyway because they frequently have ways of keeping all the buffs they want up all day anyway, so there's little point besides saving spell slots.

Flickerdart
2010-04-11, 10:54 PM
Shapechange is a fair contender. Be a Black Ethergaunt or Solar all the time. Better yet, be a Black Ethergaunt that's a Solar underneath, somehow.

@^: The problem with endless Time Stop is that it never ends. You'd be stuck unable to affect anything for all time.

Thrawn183
2010-04-11, 10:54 PM
Is this in a vacuum where there are no other spells? I mean, foresight is pretty awesome when you can also cast celerity, but on it's own it isn't so hot.

Lysander
2010-04-11, 10:55 PM
Definitely timestop

Milskidasith
2010-04-11, 10:57 PM
Shapechange is a fair contender. Be a Black Ethergaunt or Solar all the time. Better yet, be a Black Ethergaunt that's a Solar underneath, somehow.

@^: The problem with endless Time Stop is that it never ends. You'd be stuck unable to affect anything for all time.

Until you dispelled yourself, anyway. You could do whatever you like, dispel, then reactivate permanent time stop. Or cast AMF to temporarily stop the buff.

Shapechange is a fair contender, but doesn't it already have a long duration? It doesn't gain much by permanency when it's a one spell slot investment anyway.

Tackyhillbillu
2010-04-11, 10:58 PM
Wraithstrike?

NEO|Phyte
2010-04-11, 11:01 PM
Technically not a spell, but how about Timeless Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timelessBody.htm)?

Claudius Maximus
2010-04-11, 11:01 PM
Creeping Cold?

tyckspoon
2010-04-11, 11:03 PM
Transcend Mortality? The only real downside is that if somebody Dispels it off you you die.

Flickerdart
2010-04-11, 11:04 PM
Until you dispelled yourself, anyway. You could do whatever you like, dispel, then reactivate permanent time stop. Or cast AMF to temporarily stop the buff.

Shapechange is a fair contender, but doesn't it already have a long duration? It doesn't gain much by permanency when it's a one spell slot investment anyway.
The OP doesn't say you can get it back that easily. Permanency carries a hefty XP cost, so using it and then disabling it every encounter time means that you'll get really far behind. And using the AMF would mean wasting more spell slots, and not getting any casting while not inside your Time Stop.

Shapechange is 10 min/level, which is just over 3 hours, but that leaves 21 hours unaccounted for, and 9th level spell slots are valuable.

Persisted Creeping Cold would be hilarious though.

Lord Vukodlak
2010-04-11, 11:09 PM
Definitely timestop

Time Stop isn't dismissible, hope you have a dispel magic prepared.
Hmm I have this hilarious imagine of a focused specialist who picked abjuration as a prohibited school casting permanent time stop.
Not to mention the xp cost of making a spell permanent.


Tackyhillbillu, wraithstrike can be made persistent so lasts 24 hours. Which is close enough to being permanent.
I had an epic gish who used a persistent wraithstrike to bound enemies into submission with this persistent thunderlance[I had easy metamagic to reduce the cost by 1].

arguskos
2010-04-11, 11:09 PM
Creeping Cold?
/thread

Ooh, a permanent Streamers would make someone's life a living hell. :smallamused:

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-11, 11:11 PM
If we're including powers, definately Timeless Body.

If not, I'd go with Shapechange, or, if we didn't have to worry about charges, Spell Turning.

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-11, 11:13 PM
Polymorph any object.

...Oh, wait.

JaronK
2010-04-11, 11:16 PM
Consumptive Field. Arbitrarily high strength score, anyone? The +50% caster level isn't bad either.

JaronK

EpicEvokerElf
2010-04-11, 11:17 PM
Consumptive Field. Arbitrarily high strength score, anyone? The +50% caster level isn't bad either.
Greater Consumptive Field with Permanent Emanation (Epic feat).

JaronK
2010-04-11, 11:20 PM
Yup, and it's horribly broken when you do it that way too.

JaronK

the humanity
2010-04-11, 11:29 PM
fireball would be totally bizarre.

I know what would be most annoying.

Tasha's Hideous Laughter.

Talon Sky
2010-04-11, 11:34 PM
Create Water? Drown the world ;p

Claudius Maximus
2010-04-11, 11:39 PM
Footsteps of the Divine.

reptilecobra13
2010-04-11, 11:40 PM
Antimagic field.

Dr Bwaa
2010-04-11, 11:41 PM
Contingency :smalleek: Not "permanent until discharged", just regular old permanent. Gross.

Talon Sky
2010-04-11, 11:42 PM
Prismatic spray. Taste the rainbow, mother ****er!

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-11, 11:42 PM
Affinity field. Whatever you do, don't ever, ever take damage. EVER.

Irreverent Fool
2010-04-11, 11:44 PM
Contingency :smalleek: Not "permanent until discharged", just regular old permanent. Gross.

/thread

obnoxious
sig

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-11, 11:45 PM
Contingency :smalleek: Not "permanent until discharged", just regular old permanent. Gross.Personally, I think the discharge is the gross part.

Maybe you should go have that looked at.

Seatbelt
2010-04-12, 12:06 AM
There is this little spell called Thunderhead or something. Makes a cartoon stormcloud that zaps you for lame damage once per round. Reflex save for ..no damage? I forget. But it would make you the most emo person ever.

Soranar
2010-04-12, 12:12 AM
permanent wraithstrike+ permanent true strike can become a bit silly

Serpentine
2010-04-12, 01:40 AM
There is this little spell called Thunderhead or something. Makes a cartoon stormcloud that zaps you for lame damage once per round. Reflex save for ..no damage? I forget. But it would make you the most emo person ever.I know this one, and I love that idea :biggrin:

krossbow
2010-04-12, 01:58 AM
Create Water? Drown the world ;p

Really, the D&D universe should have drowned long ago from clerics conjuring water and portals to the elemental plane of water being opened.

Amiel
2010-04-12, 02:01 AM
3.0 haste. A permanent haste effect would be so incredibly broken.


Or greater ironguard, you are immune to nonmagical metal forever.

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-12, 02:05 AM
3.0 haste. A permanent haste effect would be so incredibly broken.You get something similar if you shapechange into a choker, or take either Assume Supernatural Ability or Metamorphic Transfer using polymorph/any object or metamorphosis.

Superglucose
2010-04-12, 02:24 AM
Creeping Cold?

Great persisted, but not so much permanent because it won't last too long.

My vote is for permanent Shapechange. It's not "I'm always a solar" it's "I always have the option of being a solar or perhaps I want to be a pit fiend today, oh, nah, I'll become a dragon. Or wait, I could be a cute and fuzzy puppy! Nah, Solar is where it's at."

Killer Angel
2010-04-12, 02:32 AM
permanent wraithstrike+ permanent true strike can become a bit silly

Please don't hurt me! we can be best friends ever! :smallsmile:

(permanent glibness)

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-12, 02:47 AM
3.0 haste. A permanent haste effect would be so incredibly broken.

You get something similar if you shapechange into a choker, or take either Assume Supernatural Ability or Metamorphic Transfer using polymorph/any object or metamorphosis.


Or greater ironguard, you are immune to nonmagical metal forever.
You'd get better with Timeless body. Immune to everything forever.

Gnaeus
2010-04-12, 07:53 AM
If you could get around some of the spell wording and just have the spell always active, Commune would be nice. "Whats the weather going to be like today? Should I wear this tie? Will stock X go up over the next week? Did I put enough garlic in the soup?" Got a question? Ask the gods!

Summon Elemental Monalith could be fun too.

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-12, 08:01 AM
If you could get around some of the spell wording and just have the spell always active, Commune would be nice. "Whats the weather going to be like today? Should I wear this tie? Will stock X go up over the next week? Did I put enough garlic in the soup?" Got a question? Ask the gods!

Commune? Note: "enough" is very open to interpretation. Enough to do what? Kill the average person cooking it?

If it's in the deity's interest to kill the whiny willy that's asking nonstop questions, his "5 word answer" may be "needs more garlic and arsenic".

Talon Sky
2010-04-12, 03:54 PM
Really, the D&D universe should have drowned long ago from clerics conjuring water and portals to the elemental plane of water being opened.

And now I have a new idea for a campaign :D

EagleWiz
2010-04-12, 04:03 PM
Permanant spell turning

Lord Denyuar
2010-04-12, 04:04 PM
Personally, not necessarily home-brew per se, but I think I wouldn't mind Imperceptible from the gaming section of this website. http://www.giantitp.com/articles/LQrUU7ApBttgaXkOzts.html

Dr.Epic
2010-04-12, 04:05 PM
Summons spells, acquire a legion of animals that don't vanish in a few rounds, maybe also some of the spells that raise ability scores by four, nice way to power up you character. Off the top of my head those are the best ones I can think of. I don't play casters to much.

Mikeavelli
2010-04-12, 04:21 PM
Really, the D&D universe should have drowned long ago from clerics conjuring water and portals to the elemental plane of water being opened.

I'd always assumed it was balanced out by accumulated Plane-hopping, disentigrates, and bags of holding.

Flickerdart
2010-04-12, 04:34 PM
Summons spells, acquire a legion of animals that don't vanish in a few rounds, maybe also some of the spells that raise ability scores by four, nice way to power up you character. Off the top of my head those are the best ones I can think of. I don't play casters to much.
Sadly, the animal spells are Enhancement bonus, so they don't stack with the +6 item that you should have. The Summon idea can already be replicated for the most part with Greater Planar Binding.

Myou
2010-04-12, 04:43 PM
Really, the D&D universe should have drowned long ago from clerics conjuring water and portals to the elemental plane of water being opened.

Clerics on other planes open portals to the ocean on the material plane too. All you do is add another layer to the water cycle. At worst some wizard wonders why his basement is wet and makes a new spell to lower the sea level a little.

Redshirt Army
2010-04-12, 04:44 PM
How has no-one mentioned Irresistible Dance?:smallconfused:

erikun
2010-04-12, 05:06 PM
If you don't need to eat, drink, etc. then a permanent Otiluke's Telekinetic Sphere would be lots of fun. It's a fully mobile, personal Wall of Force! Dang, Otiluke has all the fun spells.

strider24seven
2010-04-12, 05:16 PM
Most of Otiluke's spells would be fun. Especially dancing forever.

Timestop would suck because:
a) No dismissal effect without a Dispel Magic or Disjunction
b) None of your actions do anything without a dismissal.

Flickerdart
2010-04-12, 05:18 PM
Most of Otiluke's spells would be fun. Especially dancing forever.
That's Otto.

Eldariel
2010-04-12, 05:42 PM
Shapechange is 10 min/level, which is just over 3 hours, but that leaves 21 hours unaccounted for, and 9th level spell slots are valuable.

3 hours, 20 minutes and with few CL boosters, 4 hours. Greater Rod of Extend is relatively cheap and gets you ~8 hours of it. Two castings for 16 hours. Three for 24, if you feel the need. Though I guess DMM: Persisting or Incantatrixing it is easier.

But yeah, that's prolly also the most busted spell one could persist.

JaronK
2010-04-12, 05:50 PM
The thing is, it's easy to have Shapechange up for the entire adventuring day anyway, and you really don't gain anything by the shapechange continuing longer. That's why I like Consumptive Field for this... the untyped never-ending increase to strength is ridiculous. Isn't there even an ability to make your bonus spells be based on strength (Illumans have it I think)?

JaronK

Jack_Simth
2010-04-12, 05:51 PM
Timestop would suck because:
a) No dismissal effect without a Dispel Magic or Disjunction
b) None of your actions do anything without a dismissal.
There's ways around that.

AMF then becomes "Watch rocks fall". You can't affect creatures or attended objects while in a Time Stop. You can, however, take a shovel and remove all the dirt from under someone's feet down for a mile, and stack it all above them (assuming you're an Elan or some such, and don't care about how long this actually takes). When time resumes (suppressed the effect using an AMF) you get to watch them suffocate. Just ready an action to dismiss the AMF if something doesn't work out quite as planned.

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-12, 06:11 PM
Mirage Arcana many times. Fail a Will Save and you're lost forever.

Timeless Body would be sexy. "TEH IMMORTALZ!! I HAZ THEM!!"

Actually that one in the Spell Compendium that lets you fly on a personal whirlwind and shoot lightning out of your eyes. Who the hell wouldn't want that forever :smallcool:

RelentlessImp
2010-04-12, 06:18 PM
Clerics on other planes open portals to the ocean on the material plane too. All you do is add another layer to the water cycle. At worst some wizard wonders why his basement is wet and makes a new spell to lower the sea level a little.

...So that's where global warming comes from...

taltamir
2010-04-12, 06:49 PM
The thing is, it's easy to have Shapechange up for the entire adventuring day anyway, and you really don't gain anything by the shapechange continuing longer. That's why I like Consumptive Field for this... the untyped never-ending increase to strength is ridiculous. Isn't there even an ability to make your bonus spells be based on strength (Illumans have it I think)?

JaronK

just because there is a by the RAW way to get it doesn't mean its not the most overpowered permanent spell...

you can get pun pun by the RAW too...

This, this by the RAW ability actually hedges out clearly non RAW, illegal abilities.

strider24seven
2010-04-12, 07:11 PM
That's Otto.

[Facepalm]:smallfurious:

Demons_eye
2010-04-12, 07:36 PM
Transcend Mortality? The only real downside is that if somebody Dispels it off you you die.

Could some one with SR 41?

JaronK
2010-04-12, 07:49 PM
just because there is a by the RAW way to get it doesn't mean its not the most overpowered permanent spell...

Except that a pre epic guy with Permament (Greater) Consumptive Field could just cast Shapechange (extended by a greater rod) and have it virtually all day anyway, thus getting him all the benefits of Shapechange in additional to a permanent 50% boost to caster level (from the caster level he had when the spell was made permanent, so +9 if his CL was 18 at that point) and arbitrarily high strength.

Meanwhile, the guy with Permanent Shapechange is the same, except he doesn't have the CL boost or the arbitrary strength score.

JaronK

Sinfire Titan
2010-04-12, 08:22 PM
Personally, I think the discharge is the gross part.

Maybe you should go have that looked at.

Oh come on, you can do better than that.

Telekinesis.


First person to nominate Glitterdust is getting shot.

SilverStar
2010-04-12, 08:39 PM
Actually that one in the Spell Compendium that lets you fly on a personal whirlwind and shoot lightning out of your eyes. Who the hell wouldn't want that forever :smallcool:

Never, ever, EVER cast Stormrage to try and intimidate a xixecal.

It doesn't work. Trust me on this one.:smallredface:

I have to go with the Consumptive Field stuff, or Timeless Body.

Jack_Simth
2010-04-12, 09:11 PM
Could some one with SR 41?

Dispel Magic, Greater Dispel Magic, and Disjunction do not permit SR. So yes.

Mushroom Ninja
2010-04-12, 09:21 PM
Delay death would be pretty sweet.

@Sinfire: Oh, and Glitterdust :smallbiggrin:

Nerocite
2010-04-12, 09:29 PM
Contingent Resurrection, Crown Of Vermin, Prestidigitation.

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-12, 09:49 PM
How many spells from the Book of Erotic Fantasy should I nominate?

SilverStar
2010-04-12, 09:50 PM
How many spells from the Book of Erotic Fantasy should I nominate?

None, only because my head would explode at the mental images.

Lycanthromancer
2010-04-12, 09:52 PM
None, only because my head would explode at the mental images.No, that's what'll happen if you combine the BoEF from Lords of Madness.

SilverStar
2010-04-12, 09:54 PM
No, that's what'll happen if you combine the BoEF from Lords of Madness.

.....................

You must have max ranks in Craft (Disturbing Mental Images).

I think I need to go wash my brain now.

**runs beating her head against the wall**

My nomination now goes to Lycanthromancer and his amazing Permanent Twisted Silent Image he put into my head.:smalltongue:

Eldariel
2010-04-12, 10:09 PM
.....................

You must have max ranks in Craft (Disturbing Mental Images).

I think I need to go wash my brain now.

**runs beating her head against the wall**

My nomination now goes to Lycanthromancer and his amazing Permanent Twisted Silent Image he put into my head.:smalltongue:

Silent Image?! That's more like Programmed Image... :smalleek:

Riffington
2010-04-12, 10:20 PM
How many spells from the Book of Erotic Fantasy should I nominate?

Any of them better than Tasha's Uncontrollable Hideous Laughter?

arguskos
2010-04-12, 10:23 PM
No, that's what'll happen if you combine the BoEF from Lords of Madness.
Meh. Could be worse, honestly. I mean, you could have done something like Elder EvilsxBoEF, which might actually get mildly squicky.

On that note, permanent Apocalypse from the Sky sounds like it'd be pretty damned bad.

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-13, 03:24 AM
Never, ever, EVER cast Stormrage to try and intimidate a xixecal.

It doesn't work. Trust me on this one.:smallredface:...

I have no idea what one of them is, but thanks for the advice.

Though Stormrage, even the name is funky. I definitely vote for this one (assuming permanent gives me unlimited lightning eyes blasts otherwise, not so much).

Eldan
2010-04-13, 03:37 AM
Not nearly as bad as the consumptive fields and a few others mentioned here, but wasn't there a spell that allowed you to reroll all rolls during it's duration? A DM on these boards, I think the Djinn, virtua-smacked someone for trying to persist it.

Paulus
2010-04-13, 04:12 AM
Ghost Sounds. Why?

Permanent. Sound track.
Is that William tell overture? No wait... it's changing to Vagner flight of the valkarie- OH GOD IT'S GONE TO METAL!

Thorcrest
2010-04-13, 05:42 AM
Antimagic Field

Duskranger
2010-04-13, 07:17 AM
Permanent Wishing looks to me like a fun thing to have. But on the other hand some things are better nog to have. Actually the only permanent spell I would enjoy is Permanent Greater Mage Armor or something. Not broken, but easy.

Telonius
2010-04-13, 07:25 AM
Moment of Prescience.

"This spell grants you a powerful sixth sense in relation to yourself. Once during the spellís duration, you may choose to use its effect. This spell grants you an insight bonus equal to your caster level (maximum +25) on any single attack roll, opposed ability or skill check, or saving throw. Alternatively, you can apply the insight bonus to your AC against a single attack (even if flat-footed). Activating the effect doesnít take an action; you can even activate it on another characterís turn if needed. You must choose to use the moment of prescience before you make the roll it is to modify. Once used, the spell ends."

Up to +25 to everything, forever. (Though I'm not sure ... if you made the duration permanent, would that means you can only have one moment of prescience, ever? Ah, semantics...)

Eldan
2010-04-13, 08:35 AM
Well, yes. You have one moment of prescience, but you can take as long as you want to until you activate it.