PDA

View Full Version : PC Mounts- How's that work? 3.5



Kuzimu
2010-04-12, 08:31 AM
So, my character in our next campaign is a small-sized Poison Dusk Lizardfolk.

My friends' character is a Bariaur (the kind with only +1 LA from the Planar Handbook, not the kind from BOED)

Since he's all quadraped-y and all, if my character rides him into battle, can he use feats such as Mounted Combat to negate the damage dealt to his Bariaur friend? Or does that rule not work anymore because it's a PC?

Sorry if this question seems a bit dumb; I'm just noobing it up.

deuxhero
2010-04-12, 08:47 AM
It works, no reason why it shouldn't. Paladin's mounts are sapient and it's kinda expected they do it.

reptilecobra13
2010-04-12, 09:02 AM
It should work just fine, but be sure to clear it with the DM first. You'll need to figure out how you handle initiative and whatnot in combat while mounted, though you could always just say that your mount holds their action until just after your turn or that you hold yours until just before their turn.

Voice of Reason
2010-04-12, 11:58 AM
Everything that you could do with a normal mount you can do with a PC mount. The only difference is that the PC mount is likely to be a bit more stubborn than even intelligent NPC mounts. Riding another PC can net you a free move action or two each round, and mounted combat benefits for both of you, but sometimes what the rider wants to do and what the mount wants to do are antithetical to each other (ex., wanting to cast a spell with a low concentration skill while your mount wants to charge for a pounce attack).

awa
2010-04-12, 12:19 PM
by raw it works but your dm may not like it.

cZak
2010-04-12, 02:34 PM
I've thought the Mounted Combat feat to be a bit overpowered and houseruled it to be similar to Deflect Arrows; 1/ round.



by raw it works but your dm may not like it.
awa

Not to mention the PC mount. The Ride check to act in combat with a war mount is a 15; not difficult for a proper build even by level 4. Its the image of your PC 'yanking' the mount PC around via bridle or such...:smallannoyed:

KurtKatze
2010-04-12, 02:42 PM
Yeah, i wouldn't allow that. Because it effectively degrades the PC mount to a NPC mount. If 2 players want to team up in such a manner than both of them as individuals, give em a bit room or a telepatic bond or smth that they have the time to clear different possibilities in their combat round and can find a solution.

Maybe a cummunication based check (diplomacy or smth to choose the one in charge if they cannot solve their conflict.

awa
2010-04-12, 02:49 PM
well i believe we have to assume that both parties are willing or were talking about a whole nother ball game

Voice of Reason
2010-04-12, 03:04 PM
I've thought the Mounted Combat feat to be a bit overpowered and houseruled it to be similar to Deflect Arrows; 1/ round.

It already is limited to once per round :smallsmile:

SRD:

Once per round when your mount is hit in combat, you may attempt a Ride check (as a reaction) to negate the hit. The hit is negated if your Ride check result is greater than the opponentís attack roll. (Essentially, the Ride check result becomes the mountís Armor Class if itís higher than the mountís regular AC.)




Not to mention the PC mount. The Ride check to act in combat with a war mount is a 15; not difficult for a proper build even by level 4. Its the image of your PC 'yanking' the mount PC around via bridle or such...:smallannoyed:

Well, you don't need to control your "war mount" if its an intelligent creature that is making its own decisions. The only thing that you, as the rider, would be responsible for is staying in the saddle and being able to ride well enough to pull off your own attacks. No yanking on the bridal (if the mount will even grace to let you give it one) is necessary.

For cases where is becomes necessary to manipulate your mount, it's probable that they'll thank you for it anyways. For example: the Mounted Combat feat. If you yank hard on the bridle to stop your mount ally from sharing space with a crossbow bolt, I'm sure he won't mind. Its really the same thing as tackling a nearby ally to stop him from being hit from behind.

EDIT:
Maybe a cummunication based check (diplomacy or smth to choose the one in charge if they cannot solve their conflict.

Talking is a free action, and they'll always be less than 5 feet away from each other, so planning tactics shouldn't be a problem. If both of them are PCs though, I would strongly discourage you from allowing a diplomacy challenge to determine who is in charge. The mount is the one doing the legwork, and if it doesn't agree with what the rider wants, well, tough luck rider, the mount was doing you a favor by carrying you in the first place; either get off or live with it. Other PCs should [almost] never, under any circumstances, be controlled by other PCs. Casting Charm Person on an ally is akin to a declaration of war; diplomacy checks to force a PC to do something is exactly the same thing.

Kuzimu
2010-04-12, 04:17 PM
Just for clarification:

My friend's character has AGREED (vehemently agreed, my friend says) to carry my character around in battle. Therefore, we have already figured out general battle strategies, et al.

Also, my character would not try to control his character! I find the idea of controlling another PC equally abhorrent! The Bariaur kind of bosses my character around :P

But thank you; just glad to know that Mounted Combat, etc. all work with PC mounts. Thank you everyone!

AslanCross
2010-04-12, 06:54 PM
The problem with using another character as a mount is not so much who is in control (since there is agreement) but more on whose actions take priority. For the most part you move as a unit, so the mount moves on the rider's turn, and when the two move, they use the mount's speed.

However, the standard action for the turn still belongs to the rider unless he uses a ride check to guide the mount to attack as well. That's how it typically works anyway.

Unless the DM waives the Ride check, the mount can't do anything other than move. If the DM does waive the Ride check, you can get rather broken action economy by having two people attacking at the same time.

Action economy is one of the most devastating PC advantages in 3.5. However, it's the DM's call.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-04-12, 10:02 PM
The character who is to serve as a mount must be trained to do so, via the Handle Animal skill. You must also use a bit and bridle specially made for him unless the rider makes a 'guide with knees' ride check every round, and probably an exotic saddle. If not, he would not properly react to a rider's commands and could not benefit from serving as a mount, such as if the rider has Mounted Combat. He would need to be taught Combat Riding as per Handle Animal, which takes six weeks and requires a DC 25 Handle Animal check made by the trainer.

Riffington
2010-04-12, 10:12 PM
Unless the DM waives the Ride check, the mount can't do anything other than move. If the DM does waive the Ride check, you can get rather broken action economy by having two people attacking at the same time.

Action economy is one of the most devastating PC advantages in 3.5. However, it's the DM's call.

I don't think I fully understand this point. Surely the mount gets one attack and one move each turn? Why is it broken to let him have those on the rider's turn instead of rolling his own initiative?

WarKitty
2010-04-12, 10:24 PM
I would personally assume that ride checks to control the mount are unnecessary (since as a PC the mount is fully intelligent and capable of acting appropriately in battle, including talking to the rider). Similarly you wouldn't need to train the mount because it's not really an animal. You would however need to make ride checks to do other things, such as staying in the saddle. If the DM wants you could have the mount put ranks into "ride" to represent his ability to be ridden into battle, as a substitute for training.

Maybe you both roll initiative and then take whoever gets the lowest roll for both of you? I would point out that the SRD does include rules for fighting on a mount that can attack:


Fight with Warhorse

If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action.

Normally this is a DC 10 roll, which I would keep as is (to represent the rider's ability to stay in the saddle and balanced enough to make his own attacks).

QuantumSteve
2010-04-12, 10:49 PM
If rider player and mount player are on the same page, turn priority shouldn't be a problem. They act together, as a unit. If there's a disagreement, then RP hilarity ensues.:smallbiggrin:

MCerberus
2010-04-12, 11:08 PM
I had a kobold artificer ride around in a special basket latched to my warforged barb. My advice is to use it, but the second you make it too good of a setup, your DM is going to suddenly make it suicide.

@V I believe it stops being your Animal Companion/Special Mount at that point.

Dvandemon
2010-04-12, 11:18 PM
So would the same go for a human paladin riding a centaur paladin? How would a centaur paladin work anyway? Since I'm already deviating from the topic, can Awaken make an animal (in this case mount) smart enough to gain class levels?

Psionic Dog
2010-04-13, 07:04 AM
Any creature can potentially ride any other larger creature... including humanoids.

However, there is a distinction between being carried a passenger on a 'mount' and guiding and controlling the mount. Those wizards did an article on this situation a while back. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050222a)

Usually, if the mount is an intelligent PC character in it's own right then anyone riding on it is just a passenger along for the ride.

If the mount has submitted to being fully guided and controlled by the rider then use the full ride rules. As normal both rider and mount would act on the same initiative count under the riders control to whatever extent the ride skill and feats allow. This is typically the case when the mount's a normal animal mount or a loyal class feature.

However it sounds like the Poison Dusk Lizardfolk/ Bariaur is the latter, where the little lizard is a passenger. In this case the only Ride check the rider is ever allowed to make is the Stay-In-Saddle check when applicable. The two characters act on separate initiative counts with separate turns. Turn delays and readied actions may become popular. If the characters are good communicators and have rehearsed expect a finely-oiled team. Otherwise be prepared for fun and hilarity.

When the mount is in control of it's own actions it doesn't benefit from any of the rider's mounted combat feats, but on the flip side doesn't half to worry about being yanked around the battle field.

For more complete control of an intelligent mount consider Dominate Monster, diplomacy checks on NPCs, and ooc munchy bribes for fellow players. :smallwink: