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Forever Curious
2010-04-12, 12:38 PM
After the flop that was the Card Dancer, let's see if this is any better.


The Chronosage
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/DarkDreamer162/020926.jpg
I have all the time in the world.-Vin, a Chronosage

Game Rule Information

Requirements
-Able to cast 2nd level arcane spells
-Spellcraft 13 ranks, Concentration 8 ranks,
-Must have been under the effects of a Haste or Slow spell

Class Skills:
The Chronosage’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: (2+Int Mod)


Chronosage
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Chronic Casting|

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Flash of Time|+1 spellcasting level

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Temporal Thrust|+1 spellcasting level

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Temporal Jaunt|+1 spellcasting level

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Walk the Years, Foresight|[/table]


Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A Chronosage gains no proficiencies.

Chromatic Casting (Ex): Chronosages have an intuit sense of time and can adjust their spells to fit this connection. At any time, a Chronosage can substitute a prepared spell with a spell from the list below. In the case of spontaneous casters, they add the spells listed to their spells known list.

1st level- Expeditious Retreat

2nd level- Blur

3rd level- Haste, Slow

4th level- Translocation Trick (Spell Compendium)

5th level- Hold Monster

6th level- Anticipate Teleportation, Greater

7th level- Delayed Blast Fireball

8th level- Moment of Prescience

9th level- Time Stop

Flash of Time (Su): A chronosage gains a precognitive sense to the future. After learning the outcome of any attack roll, damage roll, skill/ability check, or save that affects them, the chronosage can choose to have it rerolled, taking the result that benefits him most. A chronosage can use this ability a number of times a day equal to his primary casting stat modifier.

Temporal Thrust (Su): A chronosage can thrust another creature directly into the flow of time, with harmful results. Once an encounter, a chronosage can use a ranged touch attack against a creature. If the attack hits, the creature makes a Will save equal to 10 + class level + primary casting stat. Failure means the creature vanishes, reappearing 1d6 rounds latter and taking 5 points of damage per round jaunted. Succeeding the save caused the creature to move up one age category for 1 round/class level.

Temporal Jaunt (Su): A chronosage gains the ability to thrust himself directly into the flow of time. Once per day, a chronosage can either move forward or backward 1d6 rounds. Moving forward creates the same effect as a Time Stop spell. Moving backwards returns him to the state he was before, including hit points, remaining spells, and even gear. This does not create new material, however, meaning that gear sent back in time returns to the position it was during that round.

Foresight (Sp): By fifth level, a chronosage has embraced the flow of time completely. He is treated as being under the affect of the Foresight spell indefinitely. This ability does not function in antimagic fields and can be dispelled, although it returns one minute after its dispelled.

Walk the Years (Su): (work in progress)

Jogi
2010-04-12, 01:21 PM
Chromatic Casting (Ex): Chronosages have an intuit sense of time and can adjust their spells to fit this connection. At any time, a Chronosage can substitute a prepared spell with a spell from the list below. In the case of spontaneous casters, they add the spells listed to their spells known list.

1st level- Expeditious Retreat

2nd level- Blur

3rd level- Haste, Slow

4th level- Translocation Trick (Spell Compendium)

5th level- Hold Monster

6th level- Anticipate Teleportation, Greater

7th level- Delayed Blast Fireball

8th level- Moment of Prescience

9th level- Time Stop


So, if you're a caster that can spontaneously convert any spell you know into another specific spell, you'd simply add these to his list? Shouldn't it be something like that now they can simply convert any spell into one of these? Or by spontaneous casters you meant a kind of caster that can change any spell into any other spell? In that case it'd make sense



Flash of Time (Su): A chronosage gains a precognitive sense to the future. After learning the outcome of any roll, they can choose to roll again and take the better of the two. A Chronosage can use this ability a number of times equal to their primary casting stat.


I think the number os times per day should be relatet to the primary casting stat modifier. Obviously, I belive that in the case of a multiclass caster, you'd have to choose one class right?



Temporal Thrust (Su): A chronosage can thrust another creature directly into the flow of time, with harmful results. Once an encounter, a chronosage can use a ranged touch attack against a creature. If the attack hits, the creature makes a Will save equal to 10 + class level + primary casting stat. Failure means the creature vanishes, reappearing 1d6 rounds latter and taking 5 points of damage per round jaunted. Succeeding the save caused the creature to move up one age category.


Once per encounter is not a good measure of uses (don't really know why they used it in 4e). Should probably be something like X/day where X is your primary casting stat modifier. Also, I suppose the save DC was meant to be 10+class leve+primary casting stat modifier? Also, I'd change the age category thing; basically, there's no resisting this power? All you gotta do to break the campaign villain is encounter him some 5 times and hit him with his worst save?



Temporal Jaunt (Su): A chronosage gains the ability to thrust himself directly into the flow of time. Once per day, a chronosage can either move forward or backward 1d6 rounds. Moving forward creates the same effect as a Time Stop spell. Moving backwards returns him to the state he was before, including hit points, remaining spells, and even gear.


Interesting but kinda hard to use. You'd have to keep track just about every round. Also, time stop is a high casting level spell, which now you'd be able to get, say in level 7-8?



Foresight (Sp): By fifth level, a chronosage has embraced the flow of time completely. He is treated as being under the affect of the Foresight spell indefinitely. This ability does not function in antimagic fields and can be dispelled, although it returns one minute after its dispelled.

Im going to comment on this later.



Walk the Years (Su): A chronosage gains the ability to traverse the expanses of time, gaining immunity to it. A chronosage stops aging normally, can cannot be aged by any means unless he chooses to. In addition, once per week, a chronosage can travel forward or backward any amount of time, arriving in the same place he was before using this ability, only in a different time. This ability has a slight toll, however: he loses his class abilities for 1d12 rounds after time travelling.

Way too powerfull. Any amount of time? The tool is too slight for such a tremendous ability.

Analysis
2010-04-12, 02:14 PM
I like this in general, and agree in general with the previous poster. Consider adding arcane versions of the handful of time-affecting psionic powers there are:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/burst.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeHop.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/quintessence.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/temporalAcceleration.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeHopMass.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeRegression.htm

Also, where is that picture from?

Lysander
2010-04-12, 02:32 PM
Way too powerfull. Any amount of time? The tool is too slight for such a tremendous ability.

I agree. The class is way too powerful. Mainly because of three things:

1. The ability to refresh your most powerful spell slots and items. Buy a ridiculously expensive scroll, cast it, reverse time, boom you get the scroll back. Spend a few rounds casting high level spells and quickened spells, reverse time, boom all those spellslots are unspent. You could arguably even duplicate your gear. Give your gold to someone else, reverse time and you get your gold back...does the person you gave it to get to keep what you handed them?

2. Tons of rerolls. Most feats or abilities that grant that kind of power only let you do it once or twice a day.

3. Time travel - Anywhen they want. A million years in the future or the past is just fine. What a headache for the DM.

The concept is great but I would vastly weaken their powers. I'd redesign it as a class that gets additional spell slots for time-related spells, maybe gets access to time-related spells for several different spell lists, and has DC bonuses to time-related spell saving throws.

Lix Lorn
2010-04-23, 03:15 PM
I like it.

Chromatic means colours. I assume that's accidental.
Also, might want to specify that the spells are only added to your list when you gain spells of that level. Otherwise, Time Stop at level 10.

I assume Temporal Jaunt undoes everything you do, in which case it might be irritating for the DM, but that's all. If it doesn't, all the abuses people said work.

Walk the Ages is... not that useful, unless you ABuse it. (The time travel bit, that is) I mean, you can't take your party with you. Oh, and might want a clause detailing paradoxes. Like-what happens if you shoot yourself?
Maybe make it so you can take your party, but lose abilities for a few DAYS. And specify that yes... you age in that time. Very little effect in game terms, but HUGE in flavour.
Edit: Wow, other people HATE that ability. Maybe give it a limit like years equal to your caster level, maybe even decades, or make it an ability that the DM has to permit.

That help at all? I feel like I know what I'm talking about! :smalltongue::smallbiggrin::smallamused:

Forever Curious
2010-04-23, 03:24 PM
I like it.

Chromatic means colours. I assume that's accidental.
Also, might want to specify that the spells are only added to your list when you gain spells of that level. Otherwise, Time Stop at level 10.

I assume Temporal Jaunt undoes everything you do, in which case it might be irritating for the DM, but that's all. If it doesn't, all the abuses people said work.

Walk the Ages is... not that useful, unless you ABuse it. (The time travel bit, that is) I mean, you can't take your party with you. Oh, and might want a clause detailing paradoxes. Like-what happens if you shoot yourself?
Maybe make it so you can take your party, but lose abilities for a few DAYS. And specify that yes... you age in that time. Very little effect in game terms, but HUGE in flavour.
Edit: Wow, other people HATE that ability. Maybe give it a limit like years equal to your caster level, maybe even decades, or make it an ability that the DM has to permit.

That help at all? I feel like I know what I'm talking about! :smalltongue::smallbiggrin::smallamused:

Yes, but Chrono- as a suffix means related to time. One letter makes all the difference.

Also, I'll be overhauling this class in a while, making it 10 levels, reducing the power, etc.

Lix Lorn
2010-04-23, 03:32 PM
Prefix. ;P
Then shouldn't it be Chronatic? Or Chronotic?

Ahkay.

Realms of Chaos
2010-04-23, 07:16 PM
Sorry for taking so long. Let's take a quick look.


After the flop that was the Card Dancer, let's see if this is any better.


The Chronosage
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/DarkDreamer162/020926.jpg
I have all the time in the world.-Vin, a Chronosage

Nice picture and decent quote.


Game Rule Information

Requirements
-Able to cast 2nd level arcane spells
-Spellcraft 13 ranks, Concentration 8 ranks,
-Must have been under the effects of a Haste or Slow spell

Having been affected by spells is an unusual prerequisite but it's not a bad one. Gives the class a bit of personality.


Class Skills:
The Chronosage’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: (2+Int Mod)


Chronosage
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Chronic Casting|

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Flash of Time|+1 spellcasting level

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Temporal Thrust|+1 spellcasting level

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Temporal Jaunt|+1 spellcasting level

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Walk the Years, Foresight|[/table]

A pretty small class. No dead levels and two spellcasting levels lost. We'll see if that is made up for either in flavor or in power.



Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A Chronosage gains no proficiencies.

Chromatic Casting (Ex): Chronosages have an intuit sense of time and can adjust their spells to fit this connection. At any time, a Chronosage can substitute a prepared spell with a spell from the list below. In the case of spontaneous casters, they add the spells listed to their spells known list.

1st level- Expeditious Retreat

2nd level- Blur

3rd level- Haste, Slow

4th level- Translocation Trick (Spell Compendium)

5th level- Hold Monster

6th level- Anticipate Teleportation, Greater

7th level- Delayed Blast Fireball

8th level- Moment of Prescience

9th level- Time Stop

Very nice touch. It might actually be worthwhile for a sorcerer to take a level just to get the 10 bonus spells (which could be exchanged at a later date :smalltongue:). Definitely a flavorful start with a bit of power behind it as well.


Flash of Time (Su): A chronosage gains a precognitive sense to the future. After learning the outcome of any roll, they can choose to roll again and take the better of the two. A Chronosage can use this ability a number of times equal to their primary casting stat.

A number of times forever or a number of times per day? Also, you may want to restrict the rolls a bit unless you want to reroll random encounter and treasure rolls (the outcome of which is "learned" by finding the treasure/monsters). :smallwink:


Temporal Thrust (Su): A chronosage can thrust another creature directly into the flow of time, with harmful results. Once an encounter, a chronosage can use a ranged touch attack against a creature. If the attack hits, the creature makes a Will save equal to 10 + class level + primary casting stat. Failure means the creature vanishes, reappearing 1d6 rounds latter and taking 5 points of damage per round jaunted. Succeeding the save caused the creature to move up one age category.

Okay. This is an interesting abiliity. Banish a foe for a few rounds and damage them. On the other hand, this ability is also kind of overpowered.
By aiming this at yourself or another caster and succeeding on the saving throw, you grow older and gain the benefits to mental ability scores. And let's not get into Dragons who use this ability. Yikes! :smalleek:


Temporal Jaunt (Su): A chronosage gains the ability to thrust himself directly into the flow of time. Once per day, a chronosage can either move forward or backward 1d6 rounds. Moving forward creates the same effect as a Time Stop spell. Moving backwards returns him to the state he was before, including hit points, remaining spells, and even gear.

As has been pointed out, the ability to regain expended equipment is insanely powerful. What I suggest instead is giving the option of either granting a 1 round Time Stop or allow you to restart the current round (with gear restored and such). Make it activated as a swift action and that should work.


Foresight (Sp): By fifth level, a chronosage has embraced the flow of time completely. He is treated as being under the affect of the Foresight spell indefinitely. This ability does not function in antimagic fields and can be dispelled, although it returns one minute after its dispelled.

Foresight has never been too powerful so I have no problem with granting it continually.


Walk the Years (Su): A chronosage gains the ability to traverse the expanses of time, gaining immunity to it. A chronosage stops aging normally, can cannot be aged by any means unless he chooses to. In addition, once per week, a chronosage can travel forward or backward any amount of time, arriving in the same place he was before using this ability, only in a different time. This ability has a slight toll, however: he loses his class abilities for 1d12 rounds after time travelling.

Time Travelling is an interesting thing that is incredibly easy to abuse and create paradoxes with. However, I remember one source that actually handled the matter pretty well.
Instead of travelling to the actual time period, you travelled to a demi-plane copy of the area during that time period. Nothing that you do there actually affects the future (even teaming up with yourself is okay) but you can learn things that you weren't there to learn the first time.
Time travelling forward, however, is a very tricky ability as it requires a completely different mechanic, something akin to the time hop power with any duration you choose. Once you travel forward, it should be impossible to truly travel backwards in order to prevent paradoxes.
Even wording this ability will be a nightmare to get right. I wish you the best of luck with this.

Arcanoi
2010-04-23, 08:04 PM
Time Travelling is an interesting thing that is incredibly easy to abuse and create paradoxes with. However, I remember one source that actually handled the matter pretty well.
Instead of travelling to the actual time period, you travelled to a demi-plane copy of the area during that time period. Nothing that you do there actually affects the future (even teaming up with yourself is okay) but you can learn things that you weren't there to learn the first time.
Time travelling forward, however, is a very tricky ability as it requires a completely different mechanic, something akin to the time hop power with any duration you choose. Once you travel forward, it should be impossible to truly travel backwards in order to prevent paradoxes.
Even wording this ability will be a nightmare to get right. I wish you the best of luck with this.

The problem I have with this skill is it eminently trigger an Army of You where you can recruit other yourselves from other times to team up with yourself at one moment. You could effectively create an army consisting entirely of copies yourself. Need to kill a dragon or twenty? Two or three thousand Delayed Blast Fireballs should tidy up that pretty fast.

Realms of Chaos
2010-04-24, 03:40 PM
In that case, you simply put in a single line of text stopping the past version of you from using that ability.

Lix Lorn
2010-04-24, 05:08 PM
I'm pretty sure that Temporal Jaunt is intended to restart rounds as is.

Southern Cross
2010-04-24, 05:33 PM
Walk the Years should be limited in that you cannot exist in two places at the same time-thus you cannot use this ability to duplicate yourself,and you cannot go back in time to change what you have already witnessed.
Also GURPS had a magic herb that allowed the user to travel in time,provided you could clearly visualize the time period-so if this Chronosage ability works in the same manner,any attempt to travel to the future would result in the Chronosage traveling to an alternate Prime Material Plane that is further advanced timewise.

ZeroNumerous
2010-04-24, 05:35 PM
@Regaining expended equipment/spellslots/whatever other unimaginative minutiae: Assume you cast a spell, travel back in time, then cast the spell again. What have you actually done with your turn aside from wasting a usage of your ability? Once you travel to the past, any effect you've done in the future no longer exists.

@Temporal Thrust: So what happens when a Venerable creature succeeds on the save? Is it dusted? I think the ability's success/failure should be switched and the damage dropped off.

@Permanent Foresight: Depending on what you interpret as "danger" this spell could grant immunity to being lied to. It already entirely negates the Ninja class, severely weakens rogues and entirely negates Traps.

@Time Travel as a whole: Just... Don't do it.

Southern Cross
2010-04-28, 07:07 PM
Actually,I still think the Chronosage is a viable prestige class,but it should be renamed the Chronomage, as it focuses mainly on spellcasting, not on gaining ancient or future knowledge.
As for making it a full 10 level prestige class, I'd recommend it have,at worst an 8/10 ratio,that is taking the full ten levels gives the Chronomage another eight levels of spellcasting ability.