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Vallum
2010-04-14, 03:45 AM
"Can I be an [insert type of anthro here]?"

A much ask question to my fellow colleges from the anime club here at college, or for that matter, many people from the M:tG club.

Its plausible, they can fit in my campaign, I don't see for it to be out of hand. Working such minor addition in my realm isn't too difficult. The problem arises when I'm trying to work out the set stats for each and every animal to be humaniod

Its a strenuous and overwhelming task to even just comprehend doing each and every animal separately....

Thus, going with a base right here

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Abilities: +2 Wis, +2 to ____, determined by highest stat of animal counterpart [check PF bestiary], is highest is WIS, next highest stat

SP: like beast shape I, If the animal that you have chosen has any of the following abilities permanently, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, and scent

Skills: +2 survival and knowledge(nature)

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I could use all the advice and critiques I can get for this.

Ranos
2010-04-14, 04:04 AM
Stats for anthropomorphic animals can be found in savage species, near the end of the book.
Some of them are rather dubiously balanced (I'm looking at you, anthropomorphic baleen whale), but you should be able to use them as a base for your own work.

Melayl
2010-04-14, 04:09 AM
I know Savage Species (3.0 material) has an Anthropomorphic creature template... I don't have my books at the moment (and couldn't post it if I did...)

I think what you have is reasonably balanced (much moreso than Savage Species did it). If you (and they) don't mind some LA, you could give a slightly higher bonus, say +4 to the animal's highest stat, or even +4/+2 to highest and 2nd highest.

Obrysii
2010-04-14, 06:16 AM
Realistically, it would be better to make custom races for each anthro type.

DracoDei
2010-04-14, 06:28 AM
I am currently running a campaign where all but two of the players (and due to circumstances we have had about 8, but not all at the same time) are/were playing a very tightly customized anthro. The only standard characters are a half-dragon wizard (yes, I know this is far from a min/maxed choice... don't tell my players though, we are all having fun), and the human cleric of Wee Jas who is riding the skeletal horse. I found interviewing the players to find out the attributes of their avatar to be fun and not terribly difficult (did I mention the venue I recruit from is an IRC based Furry Church?). Your Millage May Vary as far as how hard it proves, but if I can handle a teapot sized dragon who can re-arrange his defenses on a few hours notice, then you MAY just be getting intimidated by the idea of designing races. Of course, PF may not include Racial HD (or LA), so that may make things harder for you to work out.

Does the SP allow transformation? If so, not all players may want that...

Vallum
2010-04-14, 12:41 PM
Stats for anthropomorphic animals can be found in savage species, near the end of the book.
Some of them are rather dubiously balanced (I'm looking at you, anthropomorphic baleen whale), but you should be able to use them as a base for your own work.

I know Savage Species (3.0 material) has an Anthropomorphic creature template... I don't have my books at the moment (and couldn't post it if I did...)

I think what you have is reasonably balanced (much moreso than Savage Species did it). If you (and they) don't mind some LA, you could give a slightly higher bonus, say +4 to the animal's highest stat, or even +4/+2 to highest and 2nd highest.
Ranos and Melayl, thanks for the direction I could take, I know oriental adventures had some, but I, too, am sadly AFB :smallfrown:
Trying really hard for LA +0... Makes leveling for player so much easier. (I myself never went around to understanding how the hit die even work with the LA and all that jazz.. I like my LA +0 thank you very much

Realistically, it would be better to make custom races for each anthro type.
No, its not realistic to stat out each and every animal in existence
Thus using a base, to save time and improbability

I am currently running a campaign where all but two of the players (and due to circumstances we have had about 8, but not all at the same time) are/were playing a very tightly customized anthro. The only standard characters are a half-dragon wizard (yes, I know this is far from a min/maxed choice... don't tell my players though, we are all having fun), and the human cleric of Wee Jas who is riding the skeletal horse. I found interviewing the players to find out the attributes of their avatar to be fun and not terribly difficult (did I mention the venue I recruit from is an IRC based Furry Church?). Your Millage May Vary as far as how hard it proves, but if I can handle a teapot sized dragon who can re-arrange his defenses on a few hours notice, then you MAY just be getting intimidated by the idea of designing races. Of course, PF may not include Racial HD (or LA), so that may make things harder for you to work out.

Does the SP allow transformation? If so, not all players may want that...
Liker mentioned earlier, I am befuddled by the idea of Racial HD in general and how it makes sense and what it represents and all that jazz.

The SP does not allow for the transformation, just to gain the abilities if the animal part of them had it, e.g. if someone was an anthropomorphic monkey, that character would gain climb 30 ft., for the monkey, too, had it(or a somewhat similar ability)

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Also, just remembered.... I need to put a -2 to a stat somewhere, but don't know where.... maybe -2 to lowest stat animal has? I know this means INT most, if not all, of the time... IDK, just doesn't feel right :smallconfused:

Mando Knight
2010-04-14, 01:07 PM
Some of them are rather dubiously balanced (I'm looking at you, anthropomorphic baleen whale)

The baleen whale isn't exactly the problem that I've seen come up or mentioned: It's the bat. Might have pathetic strength, but its Wisdom boost and 1st level flight more than makes up for it, especially if using 3.5's Druid.

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-14, 03:14 PM
Wait, why always a wisdom boost? Looks good otherwise though. I'd say impose a penalty on a case by case basis, for what makes the most sense.

Golden-Esque
2010-04-14, 03:30 PM
No, its not realistic to stat out each and every animal in existence. Thus using a base, to save time and improbability.

In the long run, your races will be better balanced if you Homebrew each and every animal in existence :). I never liked the Savage Species anthromorphic races simply because they're all Level-Adjusted, which kinda sucks in terms of balancing the party. In my opinion, your best bet is to come up with specific categories of animals and build a base race, then have that race work for an entire category of Anthros, with maybe one or two unique racials thrown in.

For example, make up a statline for Big Cats. Any Anthromorphic creature that is based off of a big cat (lions, tigers, leopards, jaguars, etc) all use those stats. Then each race gets maybe one unique racial and their own favored class.

So as an example:

+2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence
Medium Sized
30 Ft. Movement Speed
Pounce: The creature can make a full-attack as part of a charge attempt.

Lions: Bravery (+1 to Will Save per Hit Die), Favored Class - Paladin.
Tiger: Bloodlust (+1 to damage rolls per four Hit Die), Favored Class - Barbarian.
Leopards: Acrobatic (+2 to Jump, Tumble, and Escape Artist checks), Favored Class - Rogue.
Cheetahs: +10 enhancement bonus to Base Land Speed, Favored Class: Barbarian.

These are all just off the top of my head, and yeah it'd take some work, but they'd be much better then whatever you'd find in Savage Species, abet my opinion.


Also, just remembered.... I need to put a -2 to a stat somewhere, but don't know where.... maybe -2 to lowest stat animal has? I know this means INT most, if not all, of the time... IDK, just doesn't feel right :smallconfused:

Another bonus to homebrewing your own :). You could always make it "-2 to any stat of your choice," but that encourages the dreaded min/maxing :smallamused:.

druid91
2010-04-14, 04:22 PM
Wait, why always a wisdom boost? Looks good otherwise though. I'd say impose a penalty on a case by case basis, for what makes the most sense.

Probably to represent animal senses, spot and listen are wisdom based.

Vallum
2010-04-14, 04:49 PM
In the long run, your races will be better balanced if you Homebrew each and every animal in existence :). I never liked the Savage Species anthromorphic races simply because they're all Level-Adjusted, which kinda sucks in terms of balancing the party. In my opinion, your best bet is to come up with specific categories of animals and build a base race, then have that race work for an entire category of Anthros, with maybe one or two unique racials thrown in.

For example, make up a statline for Big Cats. Any Anthromorphic creature that is based off of a big cat (lions, tigers, leopards, jaguars, etc) all use those stats. Then each race gets maybe one unique racial and their own favored class.

So as an example:

+2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence
Medium Sized
30 Ft. Movement Speed
Pounce: The creature can make a full-attack as part of a charge attempt.

Lions: Bravery (+1 to Will Save per Hit Die), Favored Class - Paladin.
Tiger: Bloodlust (+1 to damage rolls per four Hit Die), Favored Class - Barbarian.
Leopards: Acrobatic (+2 to Jump, Tumble, and Escape Artist checks), Favored Class - Rogue.
Cheetahs: +10 enhancement bonus to Base Land Speed, Favored Class: Barbarian.

These are all just off the top of my head, and yeah it'd take some work, but they'd be much better then whatever you'd find in Savage Species, abet my opinion.



Another bonus to homebrewing your own :). You could always make it "-2 to any stat of your choice," but that encourages the dreaded min/maxing :smallamused:.

I know where you are getting at, and as much as I would like to, I am unable to devote such time as stating out each and every animal in existence x_x
But I love what you did with the big cats.... and now I want to play an anthropomorphic lion paladin now with ki shout. Thanks.

Hm... -2 to your choice, aye? Hm.... Maybe if I can't come up with anything better.


Probably to represent animal senses, spot and listen are wisdom based.

Couldn't have said it better myself, and now spot and listen are jumbled into perception in pathfinder, which is wisdom based

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-14, 05:38 PM
Couldn't have said it better myself, and now spot and listen are jumbled into perception in pathfinder, which is wisdom based

Ehh, wisdom does a lot more than just perception. I would make it a skill bonus to any animals which would get one.

DracoDei
2010-04-14, 05:39 PM
I know where you are getting at, and as much as I would like to, I am unable to devote such time as stating out each and every animal in existence x_x
But I love what you did with the big cats.... and now I want to play an anthropomorphic lion paladin now with ki shout. Thanks.

Hm... -2 to your choice, aye? Hm.... Maybe if I can't come up with anything better.



Couldn't have said it better myself, and now spot and listen are jumbled into perception in pathfinder, which is wisdom based
It seems to me that everyone is missing part of what I was saying...

Don't set out to stat everything in existence unless that is going to be a major feature of the campaign world (leaving the PCs) out of it. That would be a massive project.

Stat out each anthro race only when someone requests it. You described a player and player character driven desire for anthros, so why would you waste your time getting a bunch of stuff ready that nobody is ever going to use? Well, I guess this IS the homebrew forum, and people DO do that all the time, but you seemed to be trying pretty specifically to avoid it.

If push comes to shove, I am willing to help. Just PM me with what you want, along with every detail you can wring out of the player about WHAT they want it to be and WHY... I don't know PF, nor am I sure of my balancing abilities (very few people are by themselves), but I can whip out most simple anthros very easily. My campaign is mostly composed of complete newbies to D&D, but old hands at Furry, and they have never complained to me about the way their characters performed, so I have to assume they like the way the action matches their visions of the character's abilities...

Incidentally, you can see (almost?) the entire campaign log if you look around in my extended signature for the appropriate link. One of the posts on that thread includes links to most of the character sheets. In the Feats/special abilities and/or notes sections you will find notes on what the racial abilities of the various species are.

Golden-Esque
2010-04-14, 10:08 PM
I know where you are getting at, and as much as I would like to, I am unable to devote such time as stating out each and every animal in existence x_x
But I love what you did with the big cats.... and now I want to play an anthropomorphic lion paladin now with ki shout. Thanks.

No problem, and I can completely sympathize with your disdain for stating out every animal in existence. But the real question is would you have to? Realistically, you'd only need to stat up the creatures you plan on using after all. In addition, when most people decide on playing an anthro, they have specific creatures in mind usually. Almost everyone is going to choose some kind of mammal, though occasionally you do see birds and reptiles. You almost never hear of people wanting to play as fish, bugs, or invertabre, which covers a good 83% of animals out there :).

Is it a lot of work? Heck yes. Is it doable? Definitely. But again, I'd focus on only making those creatures that your players want to play as :D.

Sydonai
2010-04-14, 10:24 PM
Check out "Therafim", it has a few nice Anthro races, and its online. The problem is that it uses Pathfinder.....I think.

Melayl
2010-04-14, 11:44 PM
Are you going to give them a natural weapon attack as well?

imp_fireball
2010-04-15, 12:45 AM
Check out the stats for every animal in the SRD. They're all averages. Ie. If a gorilla has 18 STR, then it's clear that they have +8 STR (can't be +6 since it'd be either 16 or 17 then and +10 would make it either 20 or 21).

Making them human-like means turning them into humanoids, giving them average intelligence.

Essentially, just slap on an awakened template (without the +2 Cha) and make it a humanoid.

If you want it at LA 0, then tone it down a bit.

From this Ape (large), has +10 STR, +4 DEX, +4 CON, +2 WIS, and -4 Cha.

Apes have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.

You can also bestow other qualities too, like -2 INT when you make them humanoid.

Qualities of Ape (large, humanoid):

Apes are generally honorable, preferring action over words. They pride themselves on individual merit and achievement and are often introspective. However, they can be slow to learn new things, and their lack of expressive thought and speech thus enforces the 'dumb ape' stereotype. Only on occasion will someone listen to an ape's words of advice.

- Ape (large) has 4 levels of humanoid, giving it two feats, (2 + int)x7 skill points, as well as +4 Ref, +1 Fort, +1 Will and +3 BAB.
- Size Large
- +3 Natural Armor
- 30ft. move, 30ft. climb
- Scent and Low-light vision
- 3 natural weapons - Two claws (1d6+Str) and one bite (1d6+1/2 Str)
- LA +2

Annos
2012-09-07, 05:36 PM
Check out "Therafim", it has a few nice Anthro races, and its online. The problem is that it uses Pathfinder.....I think.

where is it located?

Annos
2012-09-07, 05:47 PM
Check out "Therafim", it has a few nice Anthro races, and its online. The problem is that it uses Pathfinder.....I think.

where is it located?

IKilledTheDevil
2012-09-08, 03:36 PM
http://paizo.com/image/product/catalog/PZOP/PZOPDFSUSFURSONAE_500.jpeg
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8j2r?Fursona-The-Definitive-Guide-to-Creating-Anthropomorphic-Characters
http://www.techmissile.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/problem-solved.png

Thomar_of_Uointer
2012-09-09, 12:31 AM
Have you taken a look at the Advanced Races Guide?

www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/arg-creating-new-races

Using this I get the following base race:


+2 Wis, +2 (Str, Dex, or Con)
Medium Humanoid (anthro)
30' speed
Low-light vision
Scent


In a 10 RP setup that leaves 2 RP for extra abilities (I charged 1 RP extra since Scent is normally meant for Advanced races). That seems pretty balanced, since it's not much room for min-maxxing. I think the following abilities would be appropriate:

Slow (add 1 RP)
Light Blindness (add 2 RP)
Light Sensitivity (add 2 RP)
Bond To The Land (2 RP)
Cat's Luck (1 RP, must have Dex bonus)
Desert Runner (2 RP)
Mountain-Born (1 RP)
Natural Armor (2 RP)
Plagueborn (1 RP)
Poison Resistance (3 RP)
Camouflage (1 RP)
Cave Dweller (1 RP)
Nimble Faller (2 RP)
Scavenger (2 RP)
Silent Hunter (2 RP)
Stalker (1 RP)
Climb (2 RP)
Fleet-Footed (3 RP)
Gliding Wings (3 RP)
Jumper (2 RP)
Mountaineer (1 RP)
Sprinter (1 RP)
Swift As Shadows (3 RP)
Swim (2 RP)
Terrain Stride (1 RP)
Bite (1 or 2 RP)
Ferocity (4 RP)
Slapping Tail (3 RP)
Sticky Tongue (2 RP)
Toxic (2 RP, because they don't meet the prerequisites)
Deepsight (2 RP)
Amphibious (2 RP)
Hold Breath (1 RP)
Prehensile Tail (2 RP)



I actually have a list of oddball races just to be prepared for when I get an odd race request from a player. I've posted most of them here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250210). The ARG system is pretty flexible, the only thing it has issues with is Large-sized races (which is easily dealt with by keeping races Medium, or by managing drawbacks).

More important than rules, how do you fit these races into campaigns? Do you make entire civilizations for your setting to explain them? Do you say that there are only a few of them because they were made by magical experimentation that is now ceased? Do you say that they're really common on the next continent over, but they're foreigners for the current campaign?

LordErebus12
2012-09-09, 02:05 AM
I say if you made a generic build around the Kitsune (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedRaceGuide/uncommonRaces/kitsune.html)race, you could create just about any anthro race.

Ability Scores: +2 on two scores, -2 on one score of your choice.

Medium: anthro are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Anthro: anthro are humanoids with their own subtype and the shapechanger subtype.

Normal Speed: anthro have a base speed of 30 feet.

Low-Light Vision (Ex): anthro can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.

Change Shape (Su): An anthro can assume the appearance of a specific single human form of the same sex. The anthro always takes this specific form when she uses this ability. A anthro in human form cannot use her bite attack, but gains a +10 racial bonus on Disguise checks made to appear human. Changing shape is a standard action. This ability otherwise functions as alter self, except that the anthro does not adjust her ability scores.

Skillful (Ex): An anthro receives a +2 racial bonus on all checks with one skill or a +1 on one CMB type.

Anthro Magic (Ex/Sp): anthro add +1 to the DC of any saving throws against enchantment spells that they cast. Anthro with a Charisma score of 11 or higher gain the following spell-like ability: 3/day—dancing lights.

Natural Weapons (Ex): In her natural form, an anthro has a bite attack that deals 1d4 points of damage, a claw attack dealing 1d3 damage or a gore/slam dealing 1d6 damage.

Languages: anthros begin play speaking Common and Sylvan.

Now just create several little variants using the above template.

{table=head]{colsp=4}Table: Anthro Types
Species| Abilities | Skill/CMB| Nat Type

Bear|+2 Constitution, +2 Strength|+2 Survival|Bite
Boar|+2 Wisdom, +2 Strength|+1 Bullrush|Gore
Crab|+2 Constitution, +2 Charisma|+1 Grapple|Claw
Dog|+2 Strength, +2 Charisma|+2 Bluff|Bite
Eagle|+2 Intelligence, +2 Constitution|+2 Perception|Bite

Falcon|+2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence|+2 Fly|Claw
Fox|+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma|+2 Acrobatics|Bite
Frog|+2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma|+2 Jump|Slam
Gorilla|+2 Intelligence, +2 Strength|+1 Grapple|Slam
Monkey|+2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma|+2 Climb|Claw

Owl|+2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom|+2 Perception|Claw
Tiger|+2 Strength, +2 Dexterity|+2 Intimidate|Claw
Turtle|+2 Wisdom, +2 Constitution|+2 Diplomacy|Bite
Whale|+2 Constitution, +2 Dexterity |+2 Swim|Slam
Wolf|+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom|+1 Trip|Bite

[/Table]

the main difference between my whole variant above is that the Kitsune race as i did it can choose a different ability penalty, instead of strength. although for fairness and because its the original, it should just remain strength...

DracoDei
2012-09-09, 11:14 AM
General rules such as that are good if you want humans that wear their personality traits on their faces. For more "animal abilities with human-level minds" you will need to tweak a few details. I don't know which you want, but assuming you are going for the second then that book looks good (although you can't judge a book by its cover) or you might find yourself benefiting from my Mepholk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4520583&postcount=3). All I ask is that you PM me with how it goes when and if they show up in the game.

The re-charge rate on the spray may be too fast, but then again IRL ONE shot is probably enough to disable a bear, so maybe it all balances out. I also neglected to give them a persistant AoO "mist" setting, only the "stream" attack. For Pathfinder try dropping the racial hit-die.