New homebrew challenge for myself [need advice to get started] (Angelic Paragons)

[Sir_Chivalry]

Hello all, you may remember me as the guy who made all them disicple classes (or not, there's alot of homebrew out there, I don't mind). I'm planning a new project to design some new prestige classes.

In DnD, there are PrCs for the servants of archdukes of hell and demon princes. There are PrCs for the servants of the archon hebdomad and the eladrin star court. But there aren't any PrCs of the leaders of the angels. For that matter, there aren't angelic leaders for the five varieties of angels (astral, monadic, movanic, planetar and solar)

So my endeavour is two fold. First the easy part, assign angelic paragons to the five varieities of angels. Then, the hard part, design classes for these paragons similar to The Lion of Talisad or the Fist of Raziel.

So, I look to you guys for suggestions for what sort of angelic paragons to give to each angel variety, and then what sort of class each PrC should be tailored toward.

Solar-
Planetar-
Astral Deva-
Monadic Deva-
Movanic Deva-

Note: I did have an idea of using some of the archangels, but would that be appropriate?

[The Tygre]

Alright, just gonna' go ahead and toss these out. They're based on DiceFreaks A Light From on High.


Solar- Metatron (M), the Voice of the Heavens, Prince of the Seraphim
Planetar- Sandalphon (M), the Arm of the Heavens, Prince of the Seraphim
Astral Deva- Mikhail (M), the Herald of Courage
Monadic Deva- Uriel (M), the Herald of Death
Movanic Deva- Raphael (M), the Herald of Healing

Alternatively, any of the Devas could have Jibrael (F), the Herald of Joy. By all technical accounts, Metatron, Sandalphon, and Nafielon form the Sarim, the princes of the angels, so they have dominion over all Celestial-kind. As for Angels as a species, they work for the Heralds, Mikhail (Michael), Jibrael (Gabriel), Raphael, and Uriel.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Alright, just gonna' go ahead and toss these out. They're based on DiceFreaks A Light From on High.


Solar- Metatron (M), the Voice of the Heavens, Prince of the Seraphim
Planetar- Sandalphon (M), the Arm of the Heavens, Prince of the Seraphim
Astral Deva- Mikhail (M), the Herald of Courage
Monadic Deva- Uriel (M), the Herald of Death
Movanic Deva- Raphael (M), the Herald of Healing

Alternatively, any of the Devas could have Jibrael (F), the Herald of Joy. By all technical accounts, Metatron, Sandalphon, and Nafielon form the Sarim, the princes of the angels, so they have dominion over all Celestial-kind. As for Angels as a species, they work for the Heralds, Mikhail (Michael), Jibrael (Gabriel), Raphael, and Uriel.

I was personally thinking of using Mikhail, Jibrael, Raphael, Uriel and Phanuel, with Mikhail as Solar Paragon, and so on down the list, but now that I've learned of Metatron and Sandalphon I think they would work better as the Solar and Planetar paragons. I don't quite know what to make of all of this.

Perhaps the hierarchy works like this

Princes
Metatron
Sandalphon
Nafielon

Heralds
Mikhael
Jibrael
Uriel
Raphael
Phanuel

With the Heralds being the ones who the PrCs are based on, or the Princes having PrC taken later in levels, like 15th level.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Okay, so after asking a few questions of St. Jude, I'm back to relaunch this project (with only half a month to spare before death).

I need to use non-real world names for these paragons, and there in lies the first challenge. Expect much in the coming days. Anyone got suggestions to start off with?

Perhaps ideals or something?

First idea for a name: Isamukemen (the japanese and basque words for courage, smushed into one word)

Angel of healers or doctors (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134139&highlight=doctor) or something: Peoneir (a mash of a few pan-celtic names)

I also had a preliminary idea for a brawler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11110) PrC: Liazubuike, or perhaps Treasanerva (genderless or feminine names indicating strength)

[The Tygre]

Out of curiosity, why no real names? Religious conflict issues, or just looking to make your own mythos?

[arguskos]

Out of curiosity, why no real names? Religious conflict issues, or just looking to make your own mythos?
See for yourself. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151989) :smallcool:

To elucidate: because Roland said so, pretty much.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Out of curiosity, why no real names? Religious conflict issues, or just looking to make your own mythos?

See this thread

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151989

Ninja'd by my own thread!!!

[arguskos]

See this thread

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151989

Ninja'd by my own thread!!!
That's how I roll. :smallcool:

Also, here, have a name generator that might aid you in getting some names for the paragons: Best namegen ever. (http://www.behindthename.com/random/)

Personally, I use that or this (http://www.fourteenminutes.com/fun/words/) to generate names and words.

[Sir_Chivalry]

That's how I roll. :smallcool:

Also, here, have a name generator that might aid you in getting some names for the paragons: Best namegen ever. (http://www.behindthename.com/random/)

Personally, I use that or this (http://www.fourteenminutes.com/fun/words/) to generate names and words.

Actually the two names I just made were made using Behind the Name!! Hooray for me, I'm ahead of the ball!

[arguskos]

Actually the two names I just made were made using Behind the Name!! Hooray for me, I'm ahead of the ball!
Behind the Name is an excellent generator. I use it for my NPCs and characters all the time.

The other one is great for making new words for monsters, exotic materials and items, etc.

[The Tygre]

Hmm. Seems reasonable, especially for Gabriel and Michael, as they're synonymous with Islam and Catholicism, respectively. Shame though. They've got a lot more PR. :smallwink:

[Sir_Chivalry]

Commander of Isamukemen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8469752#post8469752) is up!

And that's the first one!

[Mulletmanalive]

I'm slightly confused by the stance on this one for the very simple reason that most of the demon names with the exception of Glasya are referred to in real life religions but whatever. Hell, Dispater is a corruption of a Hindu god's name...

Here are some meaningless but appropriate sounding names:

Seraphitus - Guardian of the Concept of "Holy"
Mezeotimus - He that rejoices in the Glory
Moriphractiel - He that rejoices in the manifold forms of creation
Agapeial - He that loves unconditionally
Scarumaiel - She whose valour exceeds all expectations

[The Tygre]

Actually Glasya was the name of a minor French witch goddess and Dispater was a Roman (Greek) underworld god.

...

Shutting up now.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Okay, I'm beginning work on the healer/doctor PrC. Any suggestions for abilties? I was thinking of using the craft (alchemy) skill in some way, something involving making medicine or other stuff.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

The reason the names for the demons could be used is because they are referenced in D&D, if I am not mistaken. In that case, D&D acts as a bridge between creeds and cultures with a more neutral stance, allowing us to reference it, even if it references relgion when we cannot.
If you're looking for craft (alchemy) skills/abilities to add to the PrC, while using a doctor type theme, infused with heavy magic, why not modify the Blood Draught or Bloood Component abilities from the Blood Magus? It might work well for a magiced docotr PrC. You could also draw inspiration from the Anoited Knight, from BoED.
Mulletmanalive mentioned one's aura creating a shield effect on their allies, in the Commander of Isamukemen thread. It may actually serve a better purpose with a doctor PrC. It could be used in much the same way as the Healing Kicker abilites from the Combat Medic Prc (HoB p. 99).

[Sir_Chivalry]

Okay, so I have seven angels planned out:

Isamukemen, planetar, Arcadia, paladin/courage support class, fights a war against the formians mainly

Peoneir, movadic, Bytopia, healing, ravages and small spellcasting, studies the both medicine and poison to find the common root of both, and hopes to use this to cure moral and fiendish infections too.

Agapeial, astral, Beastlands, skills class that gains the ability to access animal totems and fight spirits better, sends angels to cripple the gith, ethergaunt and shadar-kai armies, protecting the Material.

Treasanerva, monadic, Ysgard, brawler class that combines the physical and the supernatural to call forth evil to fight, a friend to all the elemental princes of good, who has fought against both the slaad and the elemental princes of evil

Scarumaiel, solar, Avalon (the demiplane between Elysium and the Outlands), warlock class able to put its own evil behind it, and force others to lose powers gained by evil as well, leader of the other ones above, holds court with many lesser good gods and pledges aid to their causes in exchange for aid to hers

Moriphractiel, unique angel, Pangea (the demiplane between Arborea and the Outlands), I don't know (ideas include a celestial dinosaur master, a hunter of evil animals and magical animals/aberrations), was stripped of his higher mind and celestial power by Seraphitus, and now lives in the eternally pre-historic demiplane of Pangea.

Seraphitus, unique fallen angel, Kun'Lun (the demiplane between Celestia and the Outlands), some sort of blackguard-esque class, but I'd guess it would be more skills based and less combat based, rebelled against the other angels and led an attack on Moriphractiel, stripping him of his essense. The other angels and the Hebdomad of Celestial dare not endanger the essense of the Lost One, so they do not attack him yet. Has a group of unique erinyes who are not from Baator, but instead are angels who fell with him.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Ascendant of Agapeil (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8562708#post8562708) is up. Yay!

[Mulletmanalive]

I'm going to voice again the suggestion [i'm not sure who made it first] that this would probably be better served with a handful of angels that are exemplars of the virtues of Good, as per the guidelines placed in BoED.

The scheme based on the "breeds" of angels seems odd somehow, especially if the are placed in the Upper Planes as opposed to their tasked planes from the breed descriptions.

Perhaps picking say, the seven beatitudes, and assigning an angel to each would be more effective in finding guidelines for what these angels are supposed to be about. For instance, i have no idea what the first angel is supposed to be the angel OF...

[Sir_Chivalry]

I'm going to voice again the suggestion [i'm not sure who made it first] that this would probably be better served with a handful of angels that are exemplars of the virtues of Good, as per the guidelines placed in BoED.

The scheme based on the "breeds" of angels seems odd somehow, especially if the are placed in the Upper Planes as opposed to their tasked planes from the breed descriptions.

Perhaps picking say, the seven beatitudes, and assigning an angel to each would be more effective in finding guidelines for what these angels are supposed to be about. For instance, i have no idea what the first angel is supposed to be the angel OF...

What is Talisad the Guardinal of? What is Sealtiel the Archon of? They don't conform to a single thing, they are simply celestial paragons who do something. I came up with things these five angels do before I made them paragons of the five types of angel. Giving them a tye of angle simply expands their focus to actually affecting something in the planes.

For instance, Isamukemen, the first one, is the paragon of planetars because he is a) a planetar who ascended, most of these guys were one type of angel or another, and b) he defends against planar incursion by fiends and other malicious outsiders, exactly what planetars do, so naturally he'd keep them around. If that's not enough of a specialized role, that's what I've got this thread for. I can only think of so much at a time when I'm designing these classes without any previous material to help me. Got any suggestions for other things Isamukemen and Agapeial and the others could have inlfuence over portfolio-wise?

Working off the seven beatitudes doesn't work for two reasons. One for the reason this thread almost would have been locked (it's a religious thing) and two, there aren't seven good angelic paragons there, there are five. One's neutral and the other's evil.

[Sir_Chivalry]

So does anyone have any ideas for what the five main ones could represent besides the types of angels?

[Sir_Chivalry]

New class is up!!

Fury of Tresanerva (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8814732#post8814732)

[The Tygre]

I just saw Avalon! Avalon, oh Avalon! Someone's been reading up on their alternative planes, I see. Heh. We'll make a Cager out of you yet. :smallamused:

[MythMage]

An excellently varied start, though I'm not a fan of the demiplanar realms and as mentioned they could use some filling out. I'll see if I can help at all.


What is Talisad the Guardinal of? What is Sealtiel the Archon of? They don't conform to a single thing, they are simply celestial paragons who do something.
On the contrary, both have certain themes they adhere to. Talisid is an especial paragon of friendship and humility - indeed Book of Exalted Deeds takes several paragraphs to say that friendship is the special theme of the guardinal leadership in general and Talisid in particular. Sealtiel specializes in purity and the quest for enlightenment (as well as leading the heavenly military).

Selecting portfolios helps give direction to their organization and servants, attracting new recruits and inspiring those servants (and giving them more grandeur/scope/significance to impress and interest players).

Peoneir might be the angel of the balance of trial and mercy, scourging the wicked and delivering from suffering those who do not deserve it.
Agapeial of protection and prudence, promoting vigilance in the righteous and delivering the innocent from evil.
Treasanerva of creativity, rebellion, and exposing evil, calling out those who threaten the physical foundation of good lives.
Scarumaiel of redemption and acceptance.

Oh, and here's a link to A Light From on High that The Tygre mentioned: link (http://dicefreaks.superforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2120). It might offer inspiration.

[Sir_Chivalry]

On the contrary, both have certain themes they adhere to (as do most very effective/evocative demons, angels, and the like). Talisid is an especial paragon of friendship and humility - indeed Book of Exalted Deeds takes pains to spend several paragraphs pointing out that friendship is the special theme of the guardinal leadership in general and Talisid in particular. Sealtiel specializes in purity and the quest for enlightenment (as well as leading the heavenly military). For clearer examples of good themes, I'd say check out the celestial rulers from A Light From on High (as mentioned by The Tygre) over here: link (http://dicefreaks.superforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2120)

Selecting portfolios helps give direction to their organization and servants, attracting new recruits and inspiring those servants.

Peoneir might be the angel of the balance of trial and mercy, scourging the wicked and delivering from suffering those who do not deserve it.
Agapeial of protection and prudence, promoting vigilance in the righteous and delivering the innocent from evil.
Treasanerva of creativity, rebellion, and exposing evil, calling out those who threaten the physical foundation of good lives.
Scarumaiel of redemption and acceptance.

That's all very interesting. You're right of course about themes being the right road to take. Do you have any suggestions concerning Isamukemen, Moriphractiel or Seraphitus? What concepts of good can be twisted to neutral (Moriphractiel) and evil (Seraphitus)?

Perhaps Seraphitus is excess? In terms of the Seven Deadlies, Lust, Gluttony and Greed all come from excess, as treading on Pride, Envy, Sloth and Wrath might put him too close to the archdevils.

Perhaps Moriphractiel, being angel of Pangea, represents the removal of good and evil, the lack of moral absolute in a world without civilization. OR maybe he's just the angel of DINOSAURS!!!

[MythMage]

There's nothing wrong with excess, but I don't know that it relates at all to what little you have already said of Seraphitus. As for Moriphractiel, simply removing good and evil is too vague and general. I wouldn't worry about making Seraphitus too much like archfiends - several archfiends are in fact fallen celestials anyway.

Personally, I'd play on uncomprehending innocence and selfish ignorance for the neutral and evil one, respectively, since that plays well into the plot of losing one's higher mind.

Moriphractiel I would call angel of passions, the visceral, emotional aspect of goodness. The pangs of love, the playful wish to pull a jovial prank, the urge of sympathy to help those in need. Joy, mutual delight, and others, together with the ease of mind to put it into effect in the world and balance negative emotions. With the theft of his mind, he is no longer so effective, as he cannot reason how to implement his desires. In light of this, his servants have become demoralized and fractured. Some have taken up his mindlessness as a significant shift in his portfolio, and embrace the ideal of innocence, attempting to avoid corruption from (and the negative emotions caused by) the society of sentient beings. In some cases, this has gone so far as to lead some of Moriphractiel's servants into evil, unreasonably fighting against civilization and civilized beings to the point of sabotage and murder of those who enter wilds chosen by Moriphractiel's followers.

Seraphitus could be the angel who decides ignorance is bliss, and tempts others into ignoring what they should not. He uses willing ignorance, hatred, intolerance, slander, propaganda, prejudice, and laziness. He stirs up those he can manipulate into serving him (wittingly or not) and distracts those he cannot with self-indulgence and petty concerns.

[Sir_Chivalry]

There's nothing wrong with excess, but I don't know that it relates at all to what little you have already said of Seraphitus. As for Moriphractiel, simply removing good and evil is too vague and general. I wouldn't worry about making Seraphitus too much like archfiends - several archfiends are in fact fallen celestials anyway.

Personally, I'd play on uncomprehending innocence and selfish ignorance for the neutral and evil one, respectively, since that plays well into the plot of losing one's higher mind.

Moriphractiel I would call angel of passions, the visceral, emotional aspect of goodness. The pangs of love, the playful wish to pull a jovial prank, the urge of sympathy to help those in need. Joy, mutual delight, and others, together with the ease of mind to put it into effect in the world and balance negative emotions. With the theft of his mind, he is no longer so effective, as he cannot reason how to implement his desires. In light of this, his servants have become demoralized and fractured. Some have taken up his mindlessness as a significant shift in his portfolio, and embrace the ideal of innocence, attempting to avoid corruption from (and the negative emotions caused by) the society of sentient beings. In some cases, this has gone so far as to lead some of Moriphractiel's servants into evil, unreasonably fighting against civilization and civilized beings to the point of sabotage and murder of those who enter wilds chosen by Moriphractiel's followers.

Seraphitus could be the angel who decides ignorance is bliss, and tempts others into ignoring what they should not. He uses willing ignorance, hatred, intolerance, slander, propaganda, prejudice, and laziness. He stirs up those he can manipulate into serving him (wittingly or not) and distracts those he cannot with self-indulgence and petty concerns.

Well that Seraphitus one is good, but I must especially commend you on the Moriphractiel one. I had sort of that idea, but your's is so well put. Sounds good.

Any ideas for Isamukemen?

[MythMage]

Thanks. I'm glad to help. :)

Well, Isamukemen seemed so straightforward as to not be worth mentioning: Courage. It's right there in the description. If you want more complexity/variety than that, perhaps fortitude? Or reform? Since he fights formians, whose modus operandi is to force other beings into slavery/unwanted social systems, perhaps he could champion the changing or replacing legal systems that neglect the sanctity and dignity of life.

[Sir_Chivalry]

New class up!

Physic of Peoneir (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8838548#post8838548)

[Sir_Chivalry]

I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out, should Scarumaiel be a reformed fiend? Perhaps a pit fiend or (my fav) a myrmyxicus from the fiend folio (an aquatic demon, appropriate since she lives in Avalon, a watery island demiplane)

Any one have ideas?

[The Tygre]

My gut instinct says 'Pit Fiend', if nothing else for the range of options that gives you. A myrmyxicus is cool and all, but they are mostly aquatic creatures, and I have a Hell of a time figuring how one would get that far away from home. There are fallen celestials in the Abyss, that much I know, but it's harder to go up than fall down if you catch me.

[Sir_Chivalry]

My gut instinct says 'Pit Fiend', if nothing else for the range of options that gives you. A myrmyxicus is cool and all, but they are mostly aquatic creatures, and I have a Hell of a time figuring how one would get that far away from home. There are fallen celestials in the Abyss, that much I know, but it's harder to go up than fall down if you catch me.

Well that is sort of the idea, that a fiend is unlikely to ascend, and therefore it is special, though possible due to celestial's ability to fall.

[MythMage]

Personally, i think it's a very good idea to have exactly one redeemed fiend arch-celestial. Not more, because such beings are vanishingly rare, but one is good because those few that exist are very special.

I see nothing wrong with either a pit fiend or a myrmyxicus. At first glance, a pit fiend seems more likely, both because a pit fiend is more common and because pit fiends seem to travel the planes (and thus be exposed to opportunities for redemption) more often. On the other hand, when a myrmyxicus does leave the Abyss, it's more often by transporting its whole realm to another plane - living off-plane seems more likely to lead to redemption than traveling off-plane as the pit fiend does. However, I should point out that the most probable original alignment for a NG risen fiend is NE, implying some other type of fiend altogether, such as a daemon/yugoloth or a night hag.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Personally, i think it's a very good idea to have exactly one redeemed fiend arch-celestial. Not more, because such beings are vanishingly rare, but one is good because those few that exist are very special.

I see nothing wrong with either a pit fiend or a myrmyxicus. At first glance, a pit fiend seems more likely, both because a pit fiend is more common and because pit fiends seem to travel the planes (and thus be exposed to opportunities for redemption) more often. On the other hand, when a myrmyxicus does leave the Abyss, it's more often by transporting its whole realm to another plane - living off-plane seems more likely to lead to redemption than traveling off-plane as the pit fiend does. However, I should point out that the most probable original alignment for a NG risen fiend is NE, implying some other type of fiend altogether, such as a daemon/yugoloth or a night hag.

A thought occurs. What if she is three different fiends, a supersoul if you will, bent towards a single will in one body?

[The Tygre]

Ooh! Ooh! Like a living Trinity or Hekate! That's a great idea! Like, one from each species, maybe? A demon, a devil, and a daemon?

[Sir_Chivalry]

Ooh! Ooh! Like a living Trinity or Hekate! That's a great idea! Like, one from each species, maybe? A demon, a devil, and a daemon?

Exactly! I would put justification into why she redeems warlocks.

On a side note, should I also allow this class to advance dread necromancers and/or hexblades? And how would I do that?

[MythMage]

A thought occurs. What if she is three different fiends, a supersoul if you will, bent towards a single will in one body?
Personally, I don't like it at all. Aside from simple style preference, I think that's just too implausible. One big redeemed fiend works. Three seems like much too much to me.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Personally, I don't like it at all. Aside from simple style preference, I think that's just too implausible. One big redeemed fiend works. Three seems like much too much to me.

What if Scarumeial is a single fiend, but within her realm she has a sacred location somewhat akin to the Silver Flame in Eberron (the three fiends are trapped in holy energy, and have slowly become good, and now act as advisors to Scarumeial)?

[MythMage]

I like that much better. Like maybe redeeming all those fiends was the big act that elevated her to paragon status, demonstrating for all to see her unmatched mastery of redemption.

[Sir_Chivalry]

New class is up!

Penitent of Scarumaiel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8962685#post8962685)

[Sir_Chivalry]

I'm now trying to figure out where to go with the classes for Moriphractiel and Seraphitus. I had basic ideas when making the first five, but I don't know where to start with the neutral and evil ones.

[MythMage]

Since they both have a theme of ignorance going to one extent or another, I recommend giving them both class abilities that play on that theme in different ways. Perhaps it could be taken as antimagical, where one can avoid certain magical effects by ignoring them? Perhaps they can hide themselves from divination? Perhaps some use of invisibility or really effective Hide/Stealth checks?

Both play on irrational emotions to an extent, which implies bard or bard-like powers, social manipulation by manipulating emotions, and/or barbarian rage powers.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Since they both have a theme of ignorance going to one extent or another, I recommend giving them both class abilities that play on that theme in different ways. Perhaps it could be taken as antimagical, where one can avoid certain magical effects by ignoring them? Perhaps they can hide themselves from divination? Perhaps some use of invisibility or really effective Hide/Stealth checks?

Both play on irrational emotions to an extent, which implies bard or bard-like powers, social manipulation by manipulating emotions, and/or barbarian rage powers.

Well, to speak on ignorance for a moment, the rakshasa are in some parts of their mythos beings of ignorance, perhaps Seraphitus has something to do with them? Most likely fluff, but it might have some spill into crunch.

I was thinking that the Moriphractiel one might need self-sufficiency as a character, needing to make its own weapons and armour, and gaining bonuses for such actions, representing the base level of the former angel's mind, and he removal from his peers.

[Sir_Chivalry]

I'm trying to think if either of the two remaining classes, Moriphractiel or Seraphitus, are good candidates for having class abilites tied to the five good angels, sort of like they borrow strength in a way from the others. Thoughts?

[Sir_Chivalry]

Fluff for Moriphractiel and Seraphitus

Long ago, two angels were born from the essense of good, whether previously mortal or purely divine in nature it is not known. These angelic twins, Seraphitus and Moriphractiel, fought side by side in the War of Pesh, aiding the celestial hosts, quickly making names for themselves. And so it was decided, by the powers of law and the gods, that after the signing of the Pact Primeval, all remaining angels would be divided between the two. Seraphitus advised the lawful angels from the Alabaster Spires in K'un-L'un, while Moriphractiel led mighty hunts across Panagea, the Beastlands and Arborea, training the chaotic angels to hunt and watch, ever ready.

As time passed new angels rose to the level of the twins, and they welcomed them with open arms, seeking new brothers-in-arms. But Seraphitus secretly councilled Moriphractiel to avoid the others, not trusting those who had not been born in times of test by flame, proving mettle by hardship and war. These were softer angels, born of mortal virtues and deeds, and were thus flawed by mortal natures. A dark seed was planted by these words in the mind of Moriphractiel, and he withdrew to Pangaea, taking the angels directly under his command to the demiplane as well. Where once he had been an angel of strict emotion, unbridled joy, limitless sorrow, titanic fury and unquenchable lust, he now was ruled by a new master, doubt. It gnawed at his soul, causing him to place his faith in the vast beasts of Pangaea over the other angelic paragons, even sending his host of angels away to serve his brother.

Often he would send his astral form out upon the planes, spying on the "machinations" of the other paragons, and often having dalliances with mortal women, leading in those formative days of mortalkind to the Bloodline of Moriphractiel, a bloodline now weak and muddied ages later. Those who carried this bloodline often became great heroes, or great villains, the angelic blood giving mighty strength, burning passions, and keen minds.

While Moriphractiel fought a shadow war against non-existent enemies, Seraphitus carried on with his own goals. The advent of the new angels had left Seraphitus with little to do, and many angels to do it with, and so he sought new goals and aspirations, joining the Blood War for a short time, fighting on neither side but revelling in the bloodshed and death as the fiends threw themselves at each other, endless waves of tanar'ri breaking on the iron-wrought shield walls of the baatezu. Whenever one side would gain the upper hand, he would capture and kill their spies, cripple their supply lines, destroy their diviners, anything to leave the forces without vital knowledge and resources that would guarantee victory. When news of his actions reached the ears of the gods, they brought Seraphitus forth in chains to stand trial.

All wrong-doing was scourged from Seraphitus by Scarumaiel using the mists of Avalon, and the gods sent Seraphitus to parley with the now estranged Moriphractiel, hoping to assuage his fears and bring him back to the host of angelic paragons. When Seraphitus finally found his brother, he was more animal than angel, a furious monster of tooth and claw, bristling wings battered by titanic clashes with the prehistoric denizens of Pangaea, formed covered in literal "vines of doubt", sprouted by the seed planted in his soul long ago by his brother. And Seraphitus smiled.

The mists desperately sought to extinguish the smoldering coals of evil within Seraphitus, and he in turn sought to place them in another. After confronting his brother, he reached out with a hand and touched his face, Moriphractiel looking into his brother's eyes, and the lost angel spoke but three words, "End this please." Seraphitus, a loving smile on his lips and a twinkle in his eye, let the mists slip forth into Moriphractiel's body, scourging his soul and mind, attempting to redeem him, instead leaving him with naught by his wild and monsterous form, his soul convalescing in Seraphitus' hands. With this, Seraphitus fled to the Outlands, and from there entered K'un L'un, stealing into his Alabaster Towers and setting about fortifying it against attack. Each of the angels under his command underwent an apotheosis, the male angels becoming foul dark-scaled drakes of shadow, and the females becoming beautiful winged creatures similar to the erinyes of Baator, though wrapped in sharps wires and blades, wearing metal masks, never showing their visages.

With his soul in the hands of his brother, Moriphractiel merely runs about his demiplane like a great beast, having no need to eat, rest or drink, leading him to simply run. Three distinct factions still revere him: Those that revere him as a paragon of emotion, those mortals who hold a portion of his potent blood, and those who believe he is running in order to reveal a universal truth, and that this truth will restore his mind and lead him and his followers to great power and knowledge. No evil may harm him, as he has received the blessing of each of the five angelic paragons he so dearly distrusted, giving him strength, purity of form, courage, and the protection of both the spirits and the gods, preventing Seraphitus from taking anything else from his brother.

Seraphitus ever sits in his Alabaster Towers, never leaving his throne at the most reinforced part of the towers, at the heart of a keep so strongly fortified that the sounds of battle outside don't even shake the crystal goblet in his hand. Seraphitus is waited upon hand and foot by his "maidens", while his "beasts" war against the armies of the angelic paragons outside. Sometimes, while falling into a "deep sleep", Seraphitus will send out an astral form in the shape of a great black drake, smashing the armies of good, or destroying temples or libraries, ever lashing out at knowledge to make others weak, so that he might be strong.

[Mulletmanalive]

I'm really not getting an "Angel" vibe at all from Morphactiel. I mean, Seraphiel is pretty bog standard in his evil angel-ness [not that that's a bad thing], coming off almost exactly like how the Thrones were described in Infernum, which i presume you've not encountered; RPG set in hell by Mongoose Publishing.

Morphactiel [i'm just going to call him Morph now] doesn't fit the kind of "here, have an ethical outlook" design that you seem to have been applying, possibly subconsciously, to the others. He's just a beast.

You could go for some kind of existentialism or a pure objectivist approach. Oddly, as the Complete Villain's handbook of 2e pointed out, the most dangerous kind of evil is often a permissive and dismissive neutrality...

Wierdly, when you say neutral angel, i end up thinking of a glowing version of Kain from Kung Fu, wandering the countryside and righting percieved wrongs for people he liked [on at least one occasion, he defended a kind miser from the dozens of people who wanted his money so that they could get water to survive; i never understood that show]

[Sir_Chivalry]

I'm really not getting an "Angel" vibe at all from Morphactiel. I mean, Seraphiel is pretty bog standard in his evil angel-ness [not that that's a bad thing], coming off almost exactly like how the Thrones were described in Infernum, which i presume you've not encountered; RPG set in hell by Mongoose Publishing.

Morphactiel [i'm just going to call him Morph now] doesn't fit the kind of "here, have an ethical outlook" design that you seem to have been applying, possibly subconsciously, to the others. He's just a beast.

You could go for some kind of existentialism or a pure objectivist approach. Oddly, as the Complete Villain's handbook of 2e pointed out, the most dangerous kind of evil is often a permissive and dismissive neutrality...

Wierdly, when you say neutral angel, i end up thinking of a glowing version of Kain from Kung Fu, wandering the countryside and righting percieved wrongs for people he liked [on at least one occasion, he defended a kind miser from the dozens of people who wanted his money so that they could get water to survive; i never understood that show]

Only one problem with that, Moriphractiel is a beast due to Seraphitus' theft of his essense. He can't really go wandering the "countryside", since there is no civilization or even many humanoids as far as I understand in Pangaea. Since their master is a beast, it is really left to his individual followers to decide their own ethical and moral veiws.

[Mulletmanalive]

i believe the point of what i was saying is that minus his essense Morph isn't an angel.

It's a monster.

Fallen angel is one thing, genuinely not an angel at all doesn't strike me as a good paragon of anything.

[Sir_Chivalry]

i believe the point of what i was saying is that minus his essense Morph isn't an angel.

It's a monster.

Fallen angel is one thing, genuinely not an angel at all doesn't strike me as a good paragon of anything.

So do you have any suggestions then that don't require changes to the fundamentals (the nature of Pangaea, the theft of Moriphractiel's essense, which has been mentioned previously in the discussion)?

Perhaps Moriphractiel's essense is gone, but his mind is still present?

I honestly don't see how I can make him like a normal angel when his role is to not be a current paragon, but a former one. I'm sure, after a few more back and forth posts, and some chipping in from the others, we can smooth out this idea to something that will keep us all happy.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Got a new idea, perhaps Moriphractiel fluctuates between actions of good, evil, chaos and law, not due to personal choice but because, with a lack of essense the various powers of the multiverse are trying to draw him to them.

Good?

Bad?

Cookie?

[MythMage]

A secretly/suddenly wishy-washy archangel with someone else pulling the strings makes for good drama. Arguably more than him just being empty, because this makes it more likely he can hang on to more of his original following and taint them rather than scare off many when he suddenly becomes bestial.

So, I guess... yes, cookie.

[Sir_Chivalry]

New class is finally up!

Scion of Moriphractiel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9130292#post9130292)

[Sir_Chivalry]

Is anyone going to PEACH the class?

Edit: Thank you to all

[Sir_Chivalry]

I have no idea where to proceed with the Seraphitus class, what role it should play, or even what classes should be most likely to take it.

Does anyone have ideas?

I will of course be racking my brains, and will be back once I have an idea! Yippie!

[MythMage]

Since he's so theft- and treachery- and ignorance-oriented, I suggest Seraphitus's class be associated with stealth, i.e. rogues, illusionists, bards, blackguards, assassins, and so on.

[Sir_Chivalry]

What do you think about a class the also, along with the stealth thing, slowly transforms the character into either a maiden or beast of Seraphitus?

[MythMage]

I have no idea what you mean by "maiden or beast of seraphitus".

[Sir_Chivalry]

I have no idea what you mean by "maiden or beast of seraphitus".

Well then, I suppose that is my bad. To be sure, it is term you will become very familiar with once the class is designed. I'm also endeavouring to stat said monsters.


With this, Seraphitus fled to the Outlands, and from there entered K'un L'un, stealing into his Alabaster Towers and setting about fortifying it against attack. Each of the angels under his command underwent an apotheosis, the male angels becoming foul dark-scaled drakes of shadow, and the females becoming beautiful winged creatures similar to the erinyes of Baator, though wrapped in sharps wires and blades, wearing metal masks, never showing their visages.

---Seraphitus is waited upon hand and foot by his "maidens", while his "beasts" war against the armies of the angelic paragons outside. ---


Either way, going for more of a betrayal mixed with willing possession by said fallen angel fiends, so that's the idea of today.

Edit: By the way, thank you again for continuing to help me with this! On a side note, is Scion of Moriphractiel okay now, or does it need more tweaking (only if you have a spare moment)?

[Sir_Chivalry]

New, and last, class is up!

Oathbreaker of Seraphitus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9297233#post9297233)

Thank you again to everyone for the help!