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Ralasha
2010-04-19, 05:28 PM
Hit Die: D10

Class Skills
Weapon Masters have the following skills as class skills: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (warcraft, military, history, tactics, nobility/royalty; Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill points per level: 4 + Intelligence bonus

Proficiencies: The Weapon Master is proficient with all Light, Medium and Heavy Armors, Shields, Tower Shields, Unarmed Strikes (As a monk), and Shields and Tower Shields as weapons. In addition to whatever weapon type the Weapon Master chooses to train in.

The Weapon Master
{table]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special
1st | +1 | +0 | +2 | +2 | Weapon of Choice, Weapon Focus |
2nd | +2 | +0 | +3 | +3 | Weapon Specialization |
3rd | +3 | +1 | +3 | +3 | Bonus Feat |
4th | +4 | +1 | +4 | +4 | Improved Critical, Critical Strike |
5th | +5 | +1 | +4 | +4 | Bonus Feat |
6th | +6/+1 | +2 | +5 | +5 | Preferred Weapon, Maximum Damage |
7th | +7/+2 | +2 | +5 | +5 | Greater Weapon Focus |
8th | +8/+3 | +2 | +6 | +6 | Bonus Feat |
9th | +9/+4 | +3 | +6 | +6 | Greater Weapon Specialization |
10th | +10/+5 | +3 | +7 | +7 | Signature Weapon, Greater Critical |
11th | +11/+6/+1 | +3 | +7 | +7 | Bonus Feat |
12th | +12/+7/+2 | +4 | +8 | +8 | Superior Weapon Focus |
13th | +13/+8/+3 | +4 | +8 | +8 | Weapon Mastery, Destructive Critical |
14th | +14/+9/+4 | +4 | +9 | +9 | Bonus Feat |
15th | +15/+10/+5 | +5 | +9 | +9 | Weapon Supremecy |
16th | +16/+11/+6/+1 | +5 | +10 | +10 | Superior Critical |
17th | +17/+12/+7/+2 | +5 | +10 | +10 | Superior Weapon Specialization |
18th | +18/+13/+8/+3 | +6 | +11 | +11 | Bonus Feat |
19th | +19/+14/+9/+4 | +6 | +11 | +11 | Bonus Feat |
20th | +20/+15/+10/+5 | +6 | +12 | +12 | Weapon Perfection |
[/table]

The Weapon Master
Bonus Feat: The character may choose any bonus feat for which it meets all of the prerequisites.
Weapon of Choice: The character must choose a type of weapon, into which she will devote most of her training. The bonuses from this class apply only to weapons of the same type. Regardless of whether or not the type of weapon chosen is normally granted, this character is considered proficient with it.
Note:Bludgeoning, Slashing, Piercing, Thrown, Ranged(does not include thrown), Double Ended, etc.
Weapon Focus: The character gains weapon focus as a class feature. (This must be applied to the weapon of choice.)
Weapon Specialization: The character gains weapon specialization as a class feature. (This must be applied to the weapon fo choice.)
Improved Critical: The character gains Improved Critical as a class feature. (This applies to the Weapon of Choice.)
Critical Strike: The character has learned to hit where it hurts. Before making an attack roll, the player may declare she is using this ability. If the attack hits, it results in a confirmed critical hit, regardless of the critical threat. This ability applies only to the weapon of choice. (Usable once per day at fourth level, and an extra time each four levels after. So 2 at 8, 3 at 12, 4 at 16, and 5 at 20.) This applies to any enchantments upon the weapon as well, such as flaming burst.
Preferred Weapon: The character chooses a specific weapon type, from the type he/she selected. This weapon will ignore up to 20% of concealment, and light fortification.Note:[spoiler]lets say I picked slashing, I must now pick a specific type of slashing weapon. So I choose... one handed swords.
Maximum Damage: The character is now capable of dealing as much damage as possible in a single blow. The player rolls the attack normally. But does not roll damage, instead, any and all applicable damage under the circumstances is maximized. This ability is usable one per day at level 6 and an extra time each day per 5 levels. (so 2 at 11th)
Greater Weapon Focus: The character gains Greater Weapon Focus as a class feature, this must be applied to the preferred weapon.
Greater Weapon Specialization: The character gains Greater Weapon Specialization as a class feature, this must be applied to the preferred weapon.
Signature Weapon: The character must now choose one specific kind of the type of weapon. Such as... Long Swords, or Bastard Swords. This weapon will ignore up to 40% of concealment, and medium fortification.
Greater Critical: The Base Critical Threat Range of the Signature Weapon is now doubled. This effect stacks with Improved Critical, but is calculated beforehand. And applies only to the Signature Weapon.
Note:I.E. Longsword, 19-20, with improved critical is 18-20. with this, the base becomes 17-20, and improved critical makes it 16-20.
Superior Weapon Focus: The character gains an additional +1 to hit with the signature weapon at level 12, and again each 3 levels after. (+2 at 15, +3 at level 18) This effect stacks with Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Focus. But applies only to the Signature Weapon.
Weapon Mastery: The character now gains an additional +2 to attack and damage with any weapon of the same basic type, that deals the same kind of damage. (melee slashing, melee piercing, ranged piercing, melee bludgeoning, etc.)
Destructive Critical The character's critical multiplier with the signature weapon increases by 2. So, with a longsword it would be x4, rather than the standard x2.
Supreme Weapon: The character must now choose a personal weapon, one which they have had on their person for at least 5 levels. While wielding this weapon they may take a 10 when making a melee attack. They gain a +1 Dodge bonus to AC. They may attack normally with their weapon, even when grappled, or prone; they may even attempt to attack something holding them in place, such as a spiders webbing. (This does not mean they can continue to fight normally when under effects, such as Hold Person.) They may also ignore up to complete concealment, and ethereal/astral effects, treating the weapon as ghost touch. They also ignore Heavy Fortification.
Note:if the supreme weapon is lost or stolen, and cannot be retrieved, the character must choose a new weapon to make their supreme, This takes 24 hours and it cannot leave their grip for the duration of the atunement. It must be exactly the same as their previous Supreme Weapon in all ways other than magical enchantments I.E A Longsword must be replaced by a Longsword, etc..
Superior Critical The character may now choose to both critical, and deal maximum damage, using this ability. This ability is usable once per day. It may only be done with the weapon chosen for their Supreme Weapon. This ability ignores the effects of concealment, and fortification.
Superior Weapon Specialization: The character gains an additional 2 damage with their Supreme Weapon at this level and for every 3 levels after. (+4 at level 20.) This effect stacks with any other feats, or abilities.
Weapon Perfection: The characters weapon becomes a part of the character itself. Can be hidden within the character, cannot be disarmed, dropped, or stolen. Can not harm the character, even if wielded by another, and its locations is always known to the character, even if in another plane, the character will feel drawn to it. In addition The weapon cannot be harmed. Any attempt to damage it will instead result in the damage being applied to the character, reduced by the weapons hardness, as though the character were the weapon. After all... the character is the weapon, and the weapon is the character.

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-19, 05:35 PM
Well would you look at that, a fighter with d10 HD, no feats and a bunch of big static bonuses. The critical-on-command abilities are nice, but overall the class is very underwhelming. What tier are you shooting for? (What classes should it be equivalent to in terms of power?)

Ralasha
2010-04-19, 05:51 PM
It was merely an attempt at turning the Weapon Master into a Base class, with gradually increasing abilities, rather than getting them all. It doesn't get a D10. If you actually look. In terms of power... probably a barbarian.

TheYoungKing
2010-04-19, 06:11 PM
It gets a D6? What?

That makes no sense for a character type that is intended for melee.

Ralasha
2010-04-19, 06:25 PM
It is not intended for melee, it is also capable of ranged combat. For instance, the first weapon type, I pick piercing, look what I can do with a bow.

Knaight
2010-04-19, 06:29 PM
Even the swashbuckler got d10. Bump it up to d10 at the very least, and give some more significant bonuses, maybe weapon specific bonuses. The ranger gets a d8 and is somewhat built for range, as do other ranged characters. d10 is practically mandatory.

TheYoungKing
2010-04-19, 06:32 PM
This class doesn't do anything a Fighter can't do better, and there are some ridiculous restrictions here.

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-19, 06:40 PM
Indeed, no offense, but this class is not only bad, but also incredibly boring. Give it some unique or at least interesting abilities it can use (a la exotic weapon master), and some bonus feats for a little customization. I also highly recommend 4+int skill points per level and d10 HD.

Ralasha
2010-04-19, 08:30 PM
Alright, lets test it then, there should be a place in this forum. I'll see if I can get a moderator to oversee it. You build a fighter, I'll build this. We will see who wins when I sunder all of your weapons. Because no fighter is going to get a +10 bonus to damage and attack off of feats and class abilities alone, not to mention I can triple that whenever I want, as long as I hit you, which doesn't take that much with this class.

Lets see... weapon focus +1 greater +2 superior +5 Mastery +8
Weapon specialization +2 Greater +4 Mastery +6 Superior +10
Cannot be disarmed, cannot be sundered, can't be stolen, know location. Can fight from any position without penalty.

You seem to be concentrating on only one specific thing. Rather than looking at the whole picture. A fighter cannot get a +10 to damage with class features and feats alone. You still have 7 feats with which to customize, as those feats can come from any list, but all of your weapon feats are taken care of.

It's a weapon master, not a fighter. Someone concentrating on their training throughout the career, rather than a Master of Arms. Though technically, they are that as well in many respects.

Sir_Chivalry
2010-04-19, 08:34 PM
I'll take that challenge! 1st level, 6th level, 11th level and 20th level. We fight to the death sir!

Ralasha
2010-04-19, 08:38 PM
DEAL! I will find a mod willing to take care of dice rolling.

Sir_Chivalry
2010-04-19, 08:38 PM
DEAL! I will find a mod willing to take care of dice rolling.

No such need! The forum dice roller exists for this reason!

Ralasha
2010-04-19, 08:42 PM
I was unaware of it. to keep things simple, 20 stats. Any equipment from the DMG/Magical Item Compendium. Human.

Magikeeper
2010-04-19, 08:48 PM
Looking over the class, I think it is good in combat. I think the restrictions on 'supreme weapon' (the chart has the wrong name, btw) should be removed though. The ability is awesome, but it is a level 15 ability. It is fine. That restriction does not balance anything - it's so absurdly painful that if it even comes up once you lose the ability forever in some games. Giving the DM a way to rip the ability from you is not balance. Not to mention that the player is screwed if they changed weapons over the past 5 levels. Which happens.



Now, moving on to the absurd number of dead levels. Right now the class only helps a player deal a bunch of damage. The remaining levels could be used to give the player some variety. This includes out of combat variety. Perhaps the class could give the PC some way to use his amazing weapon skills in non-combat situations? Some groups have more non-combat than others and it is nice to actually have somethething to do when it happens.

Sir_Chivalry
2010-04-19, 08:49 PM
I was unaware of it. to keep things simple, 20 stats. Any equipment from the DMG/Magical Item Compendium. Human.

And by 20 stats you mean? Also, you proposed this challenge, shouldn't the choice of terms fall to me?

Ralasha
2010-04-19, 08:51 PM
Sure then, go for it. Terms?

*Edit
Still waiting for terms?
*Edit
Magikeeper: Perhaps you should unfurl the spoilers. Since, after all, it is possible to get a new one. Buy a new one, keep it for three months, and attempt an attunement. Which will take 1d20-HD in weeks. meaning if you are level 20, then you immediately attune to the new weapon. regardless.

Sir_Chivalry
2010-04-19, 08:57 PM
Sure then, go for it. Terms?

Well, as you said, let's keep it simple. Human. Straight classes, no PrCs. You, 20 levels of Weapon Master, me, 20 levels of Fighter. 32-point buy. Gold as for a 20th level character, put into protective items, armour and shields and weapons only. All books from 3.5. All right? or do you have issue with any of my terms? Just want to make sure we're building from an even platform.

Forever Curious
2010-04-19, 08:58 PM
Well, as you said, let's keep it simple. Human. Straight classes, no PrCs. You, 20 levels of Weapon Master, me, 20 levels of Fighter. 32-point buy. Gold as for a 20th level character, put into protective items, armour and shields and weapons only. All books from 3.5. All right? or do you have issue with any of my terms? Just want to make sure we're building from an even platform.

Consider me a spectator or overseer, whichever.

Sir_Chivalry
2010-04-19, 08:59 PM
Consider me a spectator or overseer, whichever.

Thank you.

Ralasha
2010-04-19, 08:59 PM
I dislike the Book of nine Swords for starters. That is why I attempted to limit Equipment Selection. But, if you are ok with any books from 3.5 then I can just kill you immediately in the first round of combat, if you're cool with that, don't worry, you won't get SR or a save against it. My point being, limits are good. More limits, means a better, more level surfaced playing field. I'll use whatever equipment you use. That will even things out even better.

Same stats, same equipment. Just different Feats. Since obviously, you'll have 19 of them to my 8. Unless we are doing flaws, in which case it could go as high at 21/10

Sir_Chivalry
2010-04-19, 09:02 PM
I dislike the Book of nine Swords for starters. That is why I attempted to limit Equipment Selection. But, if you are ok with any books from 3.5 then I can just kill you immediately in the first round of combat, if you're cool with that, don't worry, you won't get SR or a save against it. My point being, limits are good. More limits, means a better, more level surfaced playing field. I'll use whatever equipment you use. That will even things out even better.

As tempted as I am to call your bluff, I will admit that neither of us has an buisness in the Tome of Battle, inless you are wishing to turn this into a fight between a weapon master and a warblade? hmmm? I think not. Any other stipulations?

Ralasha
2010-04-19, 09:02 PM
None, I will use your stats, and your gear. Feat selection will be the only difference aside from base class.

Forever Curious
2010-04-19, 09:03 PM
I dislike the Book of nine Swords for starters. That is why I attempted to limit Equipment Selection. But, if you are ok with any books from 3.5 then I can just kill you immediately in the first round of combat, if you're cool with that, don't worry, you won't get SR or a save against it. My point being, limits are good. More limits, means a better, more level surfaced playing field. I'll use whatever equipment you use. That will even things out even better.

Same stats, same equipment. Just different Feats. Since obviously, you'll have 19 of them to my 8. Unless we are doing flaws, in which case it could go as high at 21/10

Don't be cocky. The dice gods are spiteful...:smalltongue:

Sir_Chivalry
2010-04-19, 09:06 PM
None, I will use your stats, and your gear. Feat selection will be the only difference aside from base class.

Well as far as I can see, that would be a problem, seeing as your class is proficient with nothing as far as I can see.

Ralasha
2010-04-19, 09:06 PM
I meant, if there are no limits... I would use a ring of powerword kill. Incorrect, if you read the first entry under class abilities. They are proficient with whatever weapon they select. That group, be it bows and cross bows, swords and axes, hammers and maces, pole arms and spears, thrown weapons, or the like.
On the other side of the spectrum, I hadn't really figured out what their Armor Proficiencies should be. Heavy, Medium, Light, or something exotic...

Sir_Chivalry
2010-04-19, 09:08 PM
I meant, if there are no limits... I would use a ring of powerword kill.

And that would prove nothing about your class. I thought this was a battle of honour, we don't need magic rings, and my stipulation that money is spent only on weapons and protection would need to be streched fairly far to allow a ring of power word kill.

Ralasha
2010-04-19, 09:09 PM
No, not really, I used it to protect myself. Therefor, It was a protective item.
*Edit:
But I digress, same gear, same stats, same skills, different feats.

Mongoose87
2010-04-19, 09:10 PM
On the other side of the spectrum, I hadn't really figured out what their Armor Proficiencies should be. Heavy, Medium, Light, or something exotic...

Aren't you kind of screwed, then, not having given them armor proficiency before agreeing to a duel?

Ralasha
2010-04-19, 09:12 PM
In order to see which is superior, only class features should be different, otherwise it may only show whos' equipment selection was superior. I will treat my character as being proficient with whatever we use. That way the only difference will be in feats.

Sir_Chivalry
2010-04-19, 09:14 PM
In order to see which is superior, only class features should be different, otherwise it may only show whos' equipment selection was superior. I will treat my character as being proficient with whatever we use. That way the only difference will be in feats.

No, because weapon proficiency is part of the class. If you would like to forfeit and pick this up at a later date, I will accept and await your re-challenge.

Magikeeper
2010-04-19, 09:17 PM
Yeah, the outcome of this match doesn't matter. At all. Playing a game of D&D at the table is not the same as having a 1vs1 fight with a fighter. At least, it usually isn't. I do think the WM would win, though.

WM: A x4 -> x6 crit weapon with power attack/ bull rush/ shocktrooper should deal enough damage to kill the fighter in one round, so remaining feats should raise initiative / bypass defenses besides AC /destroy the fighter's source of heavy fortification. He will have heavy fortification, a high miss chance, and a very low AC (since you will be using the same gear and that set up helps him the most and hurts you the most).
Edit: Actually, you don't need shocktrooper. Auto-hit and all that.

Anyway, could you read my previous post? The one that seriously talks about improving the class? I would appreciate it.

Sir_Chivalry
2010-04-19, 09:18 PM
Anyway, could you read my previous post? The one that seriously talks about improving the class? I would appreciate it.

This. The important thing is this.

Ralasha
2010-04-19, 09:23 PM
You're just trying to back out because you know I'll destroy your face. :smalltongue:
*Edit
In other news, it does have social skills, and climb, swim, jump, survival, etc. If you absolutely must do something outside of combat, there isn't much it is incapable of, but it isn't a bard, so it doesn't get skills such as gather information.

Forever Curious
2010-04-19, 09:25 PM
You're just trying to back out because you know I'll destroy your face. :smalltongue:

...or, you know, actually wants you to consider good advice as opposed to obnoxious gloating.

As for the class, it's not too horrible, but I'd recommend taking what Magikeeper said to heart and acting on it.

Just my 2 cp child.

Sir_Chivalry
2010-04-19, 09:26 PM
You're just trying to back out because you know I'll destroy your face. :smalltongue:

If you want this to go, you get your class as it was when you agreed to it. No new class features, no new stuff. I'll offer one more time.

Ralasha
2010-04-19, 09:32 PM
I have, as such things go, only added diplomacy as a skill. And, to be completely honest, there are feats that can be taken in order to enhance out of combat capability, such as 'weapon trick'. Which is similar to the exotic weapon masters class ability. Also, I was planning on being tireless, and fearless. for my first level feats. Next would have, indeed, been power attack, shock trooper, and leap attack. Perhaps I would have taken a flaw or two, and gotten DR with Heavy Armor, and Improved Sunder, in order to destroy your armor. But, alright, I'll take some time, and try to find things I can do to increase its abilities, though I'll not be adding any bonus feats... that would over turn this class, ad make it horribly horribly broken and over powered.

*Edit:
Hum, 7 dead levels, which aren't actually dead levels... I only know of one class that has dead levels, and that is because it gains nothing, absolutely nothing, no saves, no feats, no BAB, no Hit dice.

Sir_Chivalry
2010-04-19, 09:35 PM
I have, as such things go, only added diplomacy as a skill. And, to be completely honest, there are feats that can be taken in order to enhance out of combat capability, such as 'weapon trick'. Which is similar to the exotic weapon masters class ability. Also, I was planning on being tireless, and fearless. for my first level feats. Next would have, indeed, been power attack, shock trooper, and leap attack. Perhaps I would have taken a flaw or two, and gotten DR with Heavy Armor, and Improved Sunder, in order to destroy your armor. But, alright, I'll take some time, and try to find things I can do to increase its abilities, though I'll not be adding any bonus feats... that would over turn this class, ad make it horribly horribly broken and over powered.

For the record, I'm merely suggesting you focus on writing in the proficiencies of the class first.

Magikeeper
2010-04-19, 09:38 PM
Hey, I think we should all get less snippy. Seriously, no insulting the other posters.



Magikeeper: Perhaps you should unfurl the spoilers. Since, after all, it is possible to get a new one. Buy a new one, keep it for three months, and attempt an attunement. Which will take 1d20-HD in weeks. meaning if you are level 20, then you immediately attune to the new weapon. regardless.

I did read that. Some games have 3 months of downtime. The game i've been running for the past 27 ~8hr sessions has covered one month. In that game losing the weapon would be about the same as losing it for ever. Also, it is still not a restriction. Either the DM gives the downtime, or he doesn't. That restricition serves no purpose and will only screw someone playing this class someday. Giving the DM a way to take away the ability is not balance. The restriction is too harsh and IMO no restriction is needed anyway. This is why most similar abilities have a 24hr wait period. Except, say, familiars. Which is one the reasons why so few people use them (which is a shame, they are actually quite fun to use).

Forever Curious
2010-04-19, 09:38 PM
Hum, 7 dead levels, which aren't actually dead levels... I only know of one class that has dead levels, and that is because it gains nothing, absolutely nothing, no saves, no feats, no BAB, no Hit dice.

I'm assuming we're going with "dead levels" to mean class features, but regardless. Curious as to what class gains "absolutely nothing" at certain levels.

Ralasha
2010-04-19, 09:40 PM
The Weapon Master
{table]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special
1st | +1 | +0 | +2 | +2 | Weapon of Choice, Weapon Focus |
[/table]

The Weapon Master
Weapon of Choice: The character must choose a type of weapon, into which she will devote most of her training. The bonuses from this class apply only to weapons of the same type. Regardless of wether or not the type of weapon chosen is normally granted, this character is considered proficient with it.
And so, what I get from this, is:
Even though I suggested he read this entry. He did not, and no one else said anything about it, they merely continued to insist that I should read what he wrote, rather than he, reading what I did. Weapon of choice, is not really A weapon. But a type of damage, and weapon. Slashing melee, or ranged... or thrown.... etc...

I will write out the armor proficiencies however, and yes, what I mentioned about slashing melee, or bludgeoning pierce is all there, you just have to read it.

Edit:
Magikeeper: Done, I changed the restriction, it is now 24 hours.

Magikeeper
2010-04-19, 09:48 PM
Who is 'he'? I've been talking about Supreme Weapon which is indeed a specific weapon.


I'll wait untill I get a response for the post I made before this one before talking more about dead levels. Mostly because I keep making large posts that keep getting buried.

Edit: Yay!

Knaight
2010-04-19, 09:55 PM
Proficiencies: The Weapon Master is proficient with all Light, Medium and Heavy Armors, Shields, Tower Shields, Unarmed Strikes (As a monk), and Shields and Tower Shields as weapons. In addition to whatever weapon type the Weapon Master chooses to train in.

Weapon of Choice: The character must choose a type of weapon, into which she will devote most of her training. The bonuses from this class apply only to weapons of the same type. Regardless of wether or not the type of weapon chosen is normally granted, this character is considered proficient with it.
Note:[spoiler]Bludgeoning, Slashing, Piercing, Thrown, Ranged(does not include thrown), Double Ended, etc.

Yeah, this needs categories, and not Bludgeoning, Slashing, or Piercing. Furthermore every PHB weapon needs to be categorized.

Ralasha
2010-04-19, 09:55 PM
I fixed it, it is now 24 hours.

Ralasha
2010-04-19, 09:56 PM
Yeah, this needs categories, and not Bludgeoning, Slashing, or Piercing. Furthermore every PHB weapon needs to be categorized.

Look in Unearthed Arcana, under Weapon Group Proficiencies. Also, they are categorized, ok, open your PHB, go to weapons, then look at damage types. You'll also notice, some of them are double ended, and some of them are not. You'll also note there are Ranged weapons, and Melee weapons. Ranged/Melee are separated, as are bludgeoning, piercing and slashing.

Magikeeper
2010-04-19, 09:58 PM
So, dead levels.

The issue is that getting HP/BAB/base saves/skills isn't that exciting. Imagine you've played ~30hrs of game, and everyone gains a level. But you didn't gain any new abilities. You are about the same as you were before. Leveling up was kinda boring, in fact. And from what I can tell my group levels up pretty fast - some people go a lot longer before hitting the next level!

I don't think that is how it should be, and there is a reason why later 3.5 classes have fewer and fewer dead levels. That reason is because WOTC figured out that dead levels are not very fun.

Ralasha
2010-04-19, 10:01 PM
Dead levels... Indeed... I suppose... I could giev them something... maybe a dodge bonus... when using the proper weapon type, and have it go up a couple notches each time the character gets closer to specializing in a specific weapon... so... about 6-8 dodge bonus, remove heavy armor Proficiencies...

Dead levels removed using Bonus Feats.

Magikeeper
2010-04-19, 10:50 PM
Heh. A combat class that revolves around the removal of chance... that also gives bonus feats. Not fighter bonus feats, but any feat you could normally take. Which is awesome and gives people in noncombat heavy games the chance to take feats for such things. <- Quickly defending the first class I've seen do this.

I might actually play this class someday. :smallbiggrin:

I'll look more into the actual combat abilities later.

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-20, 12:16 AM
You're just trying to back out because you know I'll destroy your face. :smalltongue:


Not to rain on your parade, but the weapon master has 0 chance against a well built lockdown build. Not that many classes do, but just saying, not only is a duel not the best way to ascertain balance, but you cannot win vs. Char Op builds.

Ralasha
2010-04-20, 12:43 AM
It's already an optimized build. And... with a chain shirt... standard chain shirt mind you, at level 1, and without light, heavy or tower shield... I can get a good... 3 dodge, 5 dex, 1 deflection, 1 shield, 4 armor 24 AC. and still have a nice... +8 attack bonus, and... +5 damage, without magical/masterwork equipment.

Lix Lorn
2010-04-20, 04:10 AM
Okay, I don't know *anything* about balance, so I'm just gonna work on ease of understanding.


Hit Die: D8
Um. I think d10, personally. :/ d8 feels a bit weak for a pure-martial class.


Proficiencies: The Weapon Master is proficient with all Light, Medium and Heavy Armors, Shields, Tower Shields, Unarmed Strikes (As a monk), and Shields and Tower Shields as weapons. In addition to whatever weapon type the Weapon Master chooses to train in.
Unarmed strikes makes no sense. If they're a weapons master, they should be using weapons. I don't think you can use a tower shield as a weapon. Also, It feels wrong that they're only proficient with their favourite weapon. Look at the ranger-I'm pretty sure one who chooses the archery combat style is still proficient with weaponry. It would be nicer to just give them proficiency with simple and martial weapons, I think. Also, why is 'Proficiencies' bolded when no other subtitles are up here?


Note:[spoiler]Bludgeoning, Slashing, Piercing, Thrown, Ranged(does not include thrown), Double Ended, etc.
The spoiler doesn't have an end.


Prefered Weapon: The character chooses a specific weapon type, from the type he/she selected.I don't think there are any game rules on this kind of thing. There is no 'one handed swords' weapon group, it would be down to the DM, which is a bit unfair on them.
(Also, preferred has two 'r's.)


The character must now choose a personal weapon, one which they have had on their person for at least 5 levels.
I think these abilities are normally time-based, not level based. I think I heard you saying you were changing it to 24 hours?

Anyway, it could be good, but it's quite hard to understand in places.

Magikeeper
2010-04-20, 10:26 AM
He could simply refer to the UA weapon groups. Problem solved. He did change SW to 24hrs, although I think the 5 level thing could be removed. Not sure what purpose it serves.

On proficiencies: You can use a tower shield with a weapon. This class can actually do sword-and-board without sucking (although it still deals much more damage with a 2-handed weapon).


A different issue is that Preferred weapon and Signature weapon donít do anything. I mean, you pick the weapon, but that choice doesnít matter at all until a later level. That's kind of weird. "Yay, new ability! I pick my weapon, and then.... um... is this missing text?" Looking over the combat abilities, I think you could fold a few of them into those abilities:

Example:

New Preferred weapon:
The character chooses a specific weapon type, from the type he/she selected. For example, if you picked slashing then your preferred weapon might be one-handed swords. Use the UA weapon groups for reference. You gain the benefits of Greater Weapon Focus with your preferred weapons, which does not stack with the feat itself.

New Signature Weapon:
Signature Weapon: At 10th level the character must now choose one specific kind of the type of weapon. Such as long Swords, or bastard Swords. The character gains an additional +1 to hit with the signature weapon, and again each 4 levels after. (+2 at 14, +3 at level 18). This effect stacks with Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Focus. Why the EWP restriction? This class grants proficiency in the chosen weapon doesnít it? I.E., slashing would grant bastard sword unless I am mistaken.



That would leave levels 7 and 12 without abilities. I suggest these slots be used to cover the WMs most glaring weakness. I.E. anything that ignores critical hits.

Suggestion:

<Cool Name>: At level 7 the weapon master ignores fortification and critical hit immunity when using his critical strike ability. Furthermore, the weapon master now ignores light fortification with all attacks made with his preferred weapons.


<Cool Name>: At l2th level the weapon master ignores concealment when using her critical strike ability. She must still attack the correct square. Furthermore, the weapon master gains the benefits of the blindfight feat while wielding her signature weapon.


I think Superior Critical could be changed to once per day. It is an awesome ability, but it is a level 16th ability.

Lix Lorn
2010-04-20, 02:55 PM
Uh, i'm gonna look stupid, but what's UA?

Mongoose87
2010-04-20, 03:00 PM
It's Unearthed Arcana. Available on the SRD.

Ralasha
2010-04-20, 03:17 PM
Updated. Prefered/Signature now do something worthwhile.

Ralasha
2010-04-20, 07:57 PM
A bumpty bump.

Magikeeper
2010-04-20, 08:32 PM
I like the changes. What grants a miss chance of 35% though?

Supreme Critical could ignore crit immunity. Undead, Plants, Constructs, Elementals, Oozes, and a few random abberations would like to die by your hands.

Also, Supreme Weapon should have the "you must still attack the correct square" bit. Otherwise -I think- the WM can attack without even knowing if his target is actually present, and still hit if the enemy was within his attack range. I'm not even sure he would have to state a target to start hitting one... I'd have to look this one up....

Ralasha
2010-04-20, 08:35 PM
Getting off topic here though, for a moment, and one question which goes unanswered everywhere else. does anyone know where I can find some solid rules for making patchwork armor in D&D? 3.x is preferable.

Sir_Chivalry
2010-04-20, 08:36 PM
Getting off topic here though, for a moment, and one question which goes unanswered everywhere else. does anyone know where I can find some solid rules for making patchwork armor in D&D? 3.x is preferable.

Well, if you mean armour put together from scraps, the tatterdemalion from BoVD is close. Scraps of garbage equals mithral shirt or so.

Ralasha
2010-04-20, 08:37 PM
I remember actually seeing the guidelines for making patchwork in a book though.