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Lix Lorn
2010-04-26, 05:31 PM
Muscle Mage
ĎMages? Puny, fleshy things. I could kill them with my eyes shut. Him? Oh, heís different. I saw him pick up a Colossal demon once and throw it. Yes, I know heís five foot tall and built like an underweight elf. No, I havenít drunk anything yet.í
Theo, Barbarian

Background-The Muscle Mage is a practicioner of arcane magic who uses an utterly unique approach. Using only a little outside power, they magnify a hundred fold the strength bound into their body, whether the simple power of the muscles, or magic left to grow within them.
Races-Any race with spellcasting ability could become a Muscle Mage, though it is most common among the very strong or the very weak races.
Other Classes-Muscle Mages get on well with most classes, although some wizards can grate on their nerves. Barbarians and Sorcerers in particular get on well with them, as they both see part of themselves in them. They get on best with other classes that do things in a stranger way that most-the Ghostblade, for example, or the Anarch.
Role-A Muscle Mage must make a balance between hitting things and casting their spells-most of which sacrifice their power for better or different ways of hitting things.
Muscle Mages in the World-Muscle Mages are a relatively new phenomenon. The first example was an elven girl named Leah, who was sick of people being able to push her around all the time. Needless to say, a lithe elven maiden who could lift a mace twice her size drew a lot of attention-and quickly enough, students.
Inspiration- Strength based spellcasting and boredom. XD

Alignment-Any, leaning slightly towards Neutral due to a propensity for arrogance.
Hit Die-d8
Starting Gold-As Fighter
Starting Age-As Fighter
Class Skills-The Muscle Mageís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str),
Skill Points at 1st level-(4 + Int Modifier) x4
Skill Points per Level-4 + Int Modifier

NAME OF CLASS


Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st

+0

+2

+2

+0
Body and Mind as One, Mightcasting
3
1


2nd

+1

+3

+3

+0

4
1


3rd

+1

+3

+3

+1
Juggernaut
4
2


4th

+2

+4

+4

+1
Eldritch Blow (1/encounter)
5
2
1



5th

+2

+4

+4

+1

5
3
1



6th

+3

+5

+5

+2
Power of the Titans
6
3
1



7th

+3

+5

+5

+2
Eldritch Blow (2/encounter)
6
4
2
1


8th

+4

+6

+6

+2

7
4
2
1


9th

+4

+6

+6

+3

7
4
3
2
1


10th

+5

+7

+7

+3
Inner Might, Eldritch Blow (3/encounter)
8
4
3
2
1


11th

+5

+7

+7

+3

8
4
4
3
2
1


12th

+6/+1

+8

+8

+4

8
4
4
3
2
1


13th

+6/+1

+8

+8

+4
Eldritch Blow (4/encounter)
8
4
4
3
3
2
1


14th

+7/+2

+9

+9

+4
Vessel of Power
8
5
4
3
3
2
1


15th

+7/+2

+9

+9

+5

8
5
4
3
3
3
2
1


16th

+8/+3

+10

+10

+5
Eldritch Blow (5/encounter)
8
5
4
4
3
3
2
1


17th

+8/+3

+10

+10

+5
Greater Power of the Titans
8
5
4
4
3
3
2
2
1


18th

+9/+4

+11

+11

+6

8
5
5
4
3
3
2
2
1


19th

+9/+4

+11

+11

+6
Eldritch Blow (6/encounter)
8
5
5
4
3
3
2
2
2
1


20th

+10/+5

+12

+12

+6
Haymaker
8
5
5
4
3
3
2
2
2
2



Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: Muscle Mages are proficient with light armour and shields, all simple weapons and all bludgeoning martial weapons. In addition, they may take their choice of any one weapon proficiency feat, or the Improved Unarmed Strike feat for free.

Mightcasting: A Muscle Mage draws their strength only partially from the outside, magnifying it with the power stored in their bodies, both arcane and physical. Their spellcasting is based off their Strength Stat.
To learn or cast a spell, a Muscle Mage must have a Strength score equal to at least 10 plus twice the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Muscle Mageís spell is 10 + the spell level + the Muscle Mageís Strength modifier.

In addition, due to their strength, both physical and their stored arcane power, being drained by their magic, they do not use the spells per day system. (The table above refers to spells known.) Instead, whenever they cast a spell, they suffer ability burn to their Strength score according to the following table. Note that 0-level spells have no cost: they may cast them as often as they like.



Spell Level
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9


Burn Per Cast
1
1
1
2
2
2
3
3
4



A side effect of this casting style is a resistance to the draining of their power. They gain a +1 on any saving throws against ability damage, ability drain or negative levels. In addition, their strength can never fall below 1.

Body And Mind As One: A Muscle Mage uses their magic to enhance their strength, just as they enhance their strength with their magic. They gain an inherent bonus to Strength equal to their Muscle Mage caster level, although this number may not exceed their ECL.

Juggernaut: It's hard to suppress the power of the Muscle Mage. At 3rd level, their natural rate for healing ability damage and ability burn increases to one point per hour, or two while resting. While completely relaxes, or asleep, they regain four per hour. In addition, they gain a bonus equal to half their class level on checks made to recover negative levels.

Eldritch Blow: A Muscle Mage slowly learns to combine their use of magical power with their use of raw strength.
Once per encounter at 4th level, and another time for each 3rd level thereafter, a Muscle Mage may take a full round action to cast any one spell with a range of touch, and make a single attack with any attack form they possess. If the attack hits, the spell is applied to the target as well as the normal effects of the attack.
Using this ability does not provoke attacks of opportunity due to spellcasting.

If the attack misses, the spell may be delivered as normal on a subsequent round, unless the attack was made with a ranged weapon, in which case it is lost.

Power of the Titans: At 6th level, a Muscle Mage begins to apply their strength in creative ways. They may use a weapon sized for a creature one size category larger than them as normal, though the difficulty of doing so still gives them a -2 penalty. When wielding an oversized weapon, they can wield it as if it were one step more complex (Light becomes Single handed, Single handed becomes Two handed). If they do, they negate the -2 penalty.
However, a weapon can be constructed at this greater size to be easily wielded by smaller characters, at a +50% to base cost. In this case, it may be wielded as if it were their size, other than the increased damage.
This ability counts as Monkey Grip for prerequisites.
As an additional benefit, the Muscle Mage may deal unarmed and natural weapon damage as if one size larger.

At 17th level, they may use a weapon sized two categories larger than them, though the same rules apply. (They may use a weapon one size greater with no penalty, or two sizes greater with a -2 penalty, or two sizes greater, but one step more complex with no penalty.)
This ability stacks with Powerful Build and all similar abilities other than the monkey grip feat.
They can also deal unarmed and natural weapon damage as if up to two sizes larger.

Inner Might: Although some power is drawn from outside, most of the strength used by a Muscle Mage comes from within. At 10th level, their skill becomes such that they can ignore some arcane spell failure % when casting Muscle mage spells. They ignore % equal to their Muscle Mage caster level, although this number may not exceed their ECL.

Vessel of Power: A Muscle Mageís magic is a part of them-as are their weapons. At 14th level, they can use any weapon to deliver touch spells.

Haymaker: A Muscle Mage of 20th level is the ultimate example of magic and might together. He may cast one spell in a round as if quickened without increased casting time or spell level, as long as he has dealt HP damage to a foe of at least ĺ of his CR that round. In addition, he deals more damage with his attacks: Increase the ratio of his Strength applied to each attacks by 0.5. (So a one handed weapons deals x1.5 Str, a two handed weapon deals x2 Str, and if you somehow deal x2 Str already, you increase to x2.5.

Spell List
When expanding the Muscle Mage's spell list, consider adding spells that buff the Muscle Mage's fighting abilities, and a small number of damaging spells, especially those delivered at melee range.
0-Level:Prestidigitation, Read Magic, Resistance, Light, Mage Hand, Guidance, Detect Magic, Flare, Virtue, Daze, Arcane Mark, Lesser Bullís Strength
1st level: Mage Armour, Shield, Bullís Strength, Disguise Self, Cause Fear, Expeditious Retreat, Fortune (As Divine Favour), Magic Weapon, Shield of Might (As Shield of Faith, but the material component is a copper coin), Enlarge Person, Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon)
2nd level: True Strike, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp, Catís Grace, Bears Endurance, Blur, Inflict Light Wounds
3rd level: Magic Missile, Owlís Wisdom, Foxís Cunning, Eagleís Splendour, Lesser Restoration, Inflict Moderate Wounds, Keen Edge, Greater Magic Weapon, Inflict Light Wounds, Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon)
4th level: Lightning Bolt, Phantom Steed, Fly, Stoneskin, Haste, Vampiric Touch, Inflict Serious Wounds, Cure Moderate Wounds, Fist of Might
5th level: Shout, Inflict Critical Wounds, Restoration, Cure Serious Wounds, Dimensional Anchor, Enervation, Mass Enlarge Person
6th level: Greater Bullís Strength, Slay Living, Cure Critical Wounds, Mass Inflict Light Wounds, True Seeing, Teleport, Cone of Cold, Overland Flight, Permanancy, Mass Bullís Strength
7th level: Chain Lightning, Freezing Sphere, Mass Catís Grace, Mass Bearís Endurance, Disintegrate, Harm, Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass Cure Light Wounds
8th level: Heal, Mass Cure Moderate Wounds, Greater Teleport, Prismatic Spray, Limited Wish, Greater Restoration, Mass Inflict Serious Wounds
9th level: Time Stop, Sunburst, Finger of Death, Polar Ray, Might's Warpath

Four New Spells

Lesser Bull's Strength
Level-MusM 0, Clr 1, Sor/Wiz 1, Pal 1
Effect-As Bull's Strength, but provides only a +1 enhancement bonus to strength.

Greater Bull's Strength
Level-MusM 6, Cleric 7, Sor/Wiz 7
Effect-As Bull's Strength, but provides a +10 enhancement bonus to strength.
Focus-A Sorcerer or Wizard requires a bone from a creatures with a Strength of twenty to cast this spell.

Fist of (Deity/Might)
Conjuration
Level-MscM 4, Cleric 5, Strength 4
Components-V, S
Casting Time-Standard Action
Range-Medium (100ft+10ft/level)
Targets-10ft radius
Duration-Instant
Saving Throw-Reflex Halves
Spell Resistance-No

Your invocation brings down a divine fist upon your foes, dealing 1d6+Str modifier damage per caster level (max 10d6) to all foes in the area, and causing them to make a save or be knocked prone. A successful reflex save halves damage and negates the knocking prone.

A Cleric with the strength domain chooses this spell OR Spell Immunity each time she prepares spells.

(Deity/Might)'s Warpath
Level-MscM 9, Strength 9
Components-V, S
Casting Time-Standard Action
Range-Medium (100ft+10ft/level)
Targets-15ft radius
Duration-CL/2 rounds (D)
Saving Throw-Reflex Halves
Spell Resistance-No

Your grand invocation brings down a divine foot to crush your foes, and to wreak havoc upon the enemy's ranks. You pray that they will never slip, and tread upon your own forces.

Each round, including the one where you cast this spell, select a foe - you choose the first target, but afterwards they are selected randomly - and subject them to the effects of Fist of (Deity/Might), only with a 20d6 damage cap and a 15ft radius. Each round, roll a d20 and add your strength modifier. If the result is less than 10+number of stamps this spell has delivered, one foe (a spellcaster, if present) instead chooses who is stamped - usually you - and then the spell ends.
Each round, the spell's range is determined from its previous target.

A Cleric with the strength domain chooses this spell OR Crushing Hand each time she prepares spells.

Feats
Hastened Eldritch Blow
Prerequisites: Eldritch Blow
Benefits: You may make an Eldritch Blow as a standard action.
Normal: Doing two things at once takes a whole action.

Storm of Fists
Prerequisites: Hastened Eldritch Blow, Knowledge (Arcana) 15 ranks
Benefits: You may make an Eldritch Blow as an attack action, even multiple times in a single full attack.
Normal: Multiple spells in one round is really hard.

Arcane Fury
Prerequisites: Eldritch Blow, Rage 1/day
Benefits: You may use your Eldritch Blow while raging.
Normal: duuuh spells are hard

Bhu
2010-04-26, 05:39 PM
This...has so much comic potential :smallbiggrin:

Lix Lorn
2010-04-26, 05:41 PM
Thank you. XD
A friend wanted to wield Mount Everest as a weapon. DXD

Mulletmanalive
2010-04-26, 05:59 PM
Flex Mentalo anyone?

Bhu
2010-04-26, 06:10 PM
Awright somebody cept me remmebers Grant Morrison's run on the Doom Patrol!

Lix Lorn
2010-04-27, 03:30 AM
Flex Mentalo anyone?
Who/what is that? :smallconfused:

Random_person
2010-04-27, 03:35 AM
How amusing...

Unless you can throw together 90 strength, you never get ninth level spells. Intentional?

Lix Lorn
2010-04-27, 03:36 AM
Intentional, yes: Also intentional is that with the bonus from Arcane Might, it is just possible to get 100 strength, and easy to get 90.
Though I should specify that you count that for spellcasting.

Random_person
2010-04-27, 03:40 AM
Yes, most definitely.

EDIT: a brief note on how high your Strength needs to be before Arcane Might to cast your highest level of spells:

{table]Level|Strength
1|10
2|10
3|5
4|15
5|15
6|7
7|17
8|17
9|17
10|17
11|27
12|12
13|22
14|22
15|14
16|14
17|24
18|3
19|13
20|13[/table]

A bit wonky in places, as you can see. Consider a different progression for either Arcane Might or spellcasting, maybe? Otherwise, sucks to be level 11.

Lix Lorn
2010-04-27, 03:44 AM
Done. XD
Otherwise you'd be lucky to get 2nd level spells pre-epic. O_o

Random_person
2010-04-27, 03:48 AM
Done. XD
Otherwise you'd be lucky to get 2nd level spells pre-epic. O_o

Don't exaggerate!

18+2 racial +5 tome +6 enhancement +5 levels gets you third, easily.

Lix Lorn
2010-04-27, 03:52 AM
Tome? (Confused) What's that? (is newbie)

The Bull's Strength variations are up, by the way.

Random_person
2010-04-27, 03:56 AM
Tome? (Confused) What's that? (is newbie)

The Bull's Strength variations are up, by the way.

In this case, it's actually a Manual (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#manualofGainfulExercise), but the point still stands. Even without it, you just barely grab 3rd level spells. And with judicious template stacking, a couple of other loops, and a lenient DM, I'm fairly sure you could get up to 5th or 6th level spells.

Lix Lorn
2010-04-27, 04:00 AM
Oh, okay.
I always forget to calculate for magic items and things. My dad was hugely stingy with magic weapons-he once gave someone an evil sword, and it owned them rather than vice-versa.
It hated halflings.
She regularly woke up to find a horde of angry halfings at the door, and s bloodied sword by her bed.

Anyway, Arcane Might is there so you can easily get 100, and with the magical stuff, probably 110 or 120.

Random_person
2010-04-27, 04:11 AM
OH.

Oh. Oh dear.

Restoration breaks this class nine ways to hell and back. Can you say 'at-will casting'? I can, and I can read it too!

A bit sarcastic, but the point stands.

Lix Lorn
2010-04-27, 04:13 AM
I thought restoration was less powerful. O_o
I'll make it ability burn, and increase their natural strength healing.

Random_person
2010-04-27, 04:19 AM
I thought restoration was less powerful. O_o
I'll make it ability burn, and increase their natural strength healing.

Unfortunately, the strength buffs are much the same, although to a lesser extent. Scion of Might, in particular, grants your daily allocation of spells over again if you can Delay it.

Lix Lorn
2010-04-27, 04:23 AM
Scion of Might IS strong, but you can't delay it, you have to cast it while your strength is 90 or higher-and it won't last long enough for you to abuse it. I hope.

Tewnty minutes, enough time to abuse it? :/ Maybe lower the duration...

Oops, there was meant to be something about not falling below 1 strength. (Edits)

Random_person
2010-04-27, 04:31 AM
Sure you can Delay it. All you need is some way to reduce a metamagic cost by 1 level, and BANG, instant delay-ability.

I'll admit that it's not as broken as it could be, but I'm still leery about that much of a boost to their primary casting stat. If nothing else, it makes their save DCs a menace.

Also, level 2 looks a bit bland at the moment. You might want to try and fix that.

Lix Lorn
2010-04-27, 06:41 AM
Well, it does make their spells VERY hard to stop. That's kind of intentional.

How exactly does Delay Spell work?

Well, spellcasters traditionally have few abilities-though I did add Juggernaut to level 2 a few edits ago, it's pretty minor.

Sereg
2010-04-27, 09:39 AM
Another thing that you have to fix is this:

[quote]The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a sorcererís muscle mage'sspell is 10 + the spell level + the sorcererís muscle mage's Strength divided by ten.

It's an interesting idea, but Random_person has a point, maybe restrict the ability to heal the strength damage or apply another restriction to the spellcasting in addition to the current one.

Lix Lorn
2010-04-27, 10:15 AM
It's an interesting idea, but Random_person has a point, maybe restrict the ability to heal the strength damage or apply another restriction to the spellcasting in addition to the current one.
Uh. What exactly do I need to fix there? :smallconfused:

Mongoose87
2010-04-27, 10:44 AM
I'm not a fan of the whole 10x spell level STR required deal. It essentially prohibits you from ever taking a prestige class, for fear that you miss out on the Arcane Might ability.

Milskidasith
2010-04-27, 11:43 AM
I'm not a fan of the whole 10x spell level STR required deal. It essentially prohibits you from ever taking a prestige class, for fear that you miss out on the Arcane Might ability.

It also prohibits you from casting, for fear you won't be able to cast any good spells.

This class is pretty much worthless for the actual casting... it's better just to beat the crap out of somebody with your +absurd damage and Tenser's Transformation (or whatever the "gain full BAB" spell is)

EDIT: I saw it doesn't have that, nevermind.

Also, an untyped bonus equal to your current strength, especially since it uses arcane might but isn't limited by it for to hit, is insane. Get your +20 enhancement bonus, cast scion of might, and suddenly all your arcane might applies to hit, *and* all of your arcane might plus your base stats are now doubled for damage.

Yeah, this class is purely for beating **** up, not for casting, and the spells you have are absurd.

EDIT X2: Just as an example, assuming you have a base str of 1, and you cast the +20 enhancement bonus spell, you now have 100 str, so +45 to damage, with +5 to hit. Then you cast the "double your strength" spell, which is an untyped (not arcane might) bonus, and you now have 200 str, so + 95 to damage, +55 to hit, with a base strength of one. You have a -7 to both from the ability burn for casting the spells, but still, it's nutty.

Set
2010-04-27, 12:13 PM
I vaguely recall a thread about designing spellcasting methods based on Str, Dex, etc.

Interesting concept, although your execution takes it far from the ideas I saw in that thread...

Lix Lorn
2010-04-27, 12:38 PM
That's a good point, Mongoose, I'll change the strength requirement to be your base strength + spell level, as with normal classes.

I really like the system of ability burn. :/ Is there a way I could keep the 10xStrength and still have the spells be castable? How about if any spells cast don't cause ability burn for a certain number of rounds, so you maintain full casting ability until the end of the encounter? Would that work?

Oops. I'll put in somewhere that Scion of Might and Arcane Might don't work like that. They shouldn't. Thanks for the feedback.

Oh, and thanks, Set. ^_^

~LuckyBoneDice~
2010-04-27, 01:01 PM
This is cool. When i read it, I thought it was a class that controls the muscles of their targets and other muscle tissue, turning a porterhouse into a deadly weapon!

Lix Lorn
2010-04-27, 01:04 PM
This is cool. When i read it, I thought it was a class that controls the muscles of their targets and other muscle tissue, turning a porterhouse into a deadly weapon!
...XD
SUMMON STEAK!

Gandariel
2010-04-27, 01:09 PM
if i had 100+ strenght i wouldn't waste time casting spells, i would grab the biggest thing i can see and crush my enemies with it....

~LuckyBoneDice~
2010-04-27, 01:10 PM
...XD
SUMMON STEAK!

That happened...

We were facing a mob (60+) of Kobolds after killing a great Wyrm Black Dragon. Our Psion (who was a viletooth poison dusk lizardfolk. yes, both) had cut a chop from the dragon for a meal, and ended up using it as a "drop" weapon using TK.

I also ran a Half-Giant Half-Neanderthal that used a T-Rex Drumstick as a greatclub ;3

Lix Lorn
2010-04-27, 01:19 PM
if i had 100+ strenght i wouldn't waste time casting spells, i would grab the biggest thing i can see and crush my enemies with it....
Assuming you could hit anything. Hello, 1/2 BAB.

~LuckyBoneDice~
2010-04-27, 01:22 PM
Assuming you could hit anything. Hello, 1/2 BAB.

thats a 1/2 BAB with a massive STR boost

Lix Lorn
2010-04-27, 01:43 PM
Yes, but you don't use the boost from Arcane Might to determine your to hit.

~LuckyBoneDice~
2010-04-27, 01:46 PM
Yes, but you don't use the boost from Arcane Might to determine your to hit.

That makes no sense at all...

Summon: Klubba!!!

Lix Lorn
2010-04-27, 01:48 PM
If you check Strength, Not Skill, it says that you only get the arcane might bonus on purely physical things, like attack rolls and strength checks. It specifically says NOT to hit rolls.

Cause being insanely strong doesn't make it easier to hit things.
(Why is it the strength modifier anyway?)

Gandariel
2010-04-27, 04:05 PM
If you check Strength, Not Skill, it says that you only get the arcane might bonus on purely physical things, like attack rolls and strength checks. It specifically says NOT to hit rolls.

Cause being insanely strong doesn't make it easier to hit things.
(Why is it the strength modifier anyway?)

Mmh.. i would still try to go melee and fight..
anyway there's many other things you can do with 100 strenght... i think you could just begin pushing your enemies and making them fly away.... or punch the earth and creake an earthquake... or....
i'm not an expert but i remember the amount of weight you can carry while flying is limited by your strenght...
ahahah i have a cool idea of how to destroy castles by literally dropping mountains on them...

SlyGuyMcFly
2010-04-27, 04:46 PM
Obligatory:

http://animeholicph.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/armstrong.jpg

TheYoungKing
2010-04-27, 04:47 PM
If you check Strength, Not Skill, it says that you only get the arcane might bonus on purely physical things, like attack rolls and strength checks. It specifically says NOT to hit rolls.

Cause being insanely strong doesn't make it easier to hit things.
(Why is it the strength modifier anyway?)

Attack rolls are "to-hit rolls".

Lix Lorn
2010-04-27, 04:56 PM
@Gandariel: Sorry, I closed that trick before putting it up. I had a proofreader. XD

In addition, the strain of enhancing your Strength to this degree is huge. You do not gain the Arcane Might bonus to determine your carrying capacity.

@Even Human: 'This magic style has been handed down my elven line for GENERATIONS!
(Squee)
(Fangasm)

@TheYoungKing: Sorry, I'm getting the terminology wrong. It applies on damage rolls, but not attack rolls.

ryleah
2010-04-27, 09:51 PM
You could jump to the moon and punch rakshasas!

Bhu
2010-04-27, 10:01 PM
Who/what is that? :smallconfused:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flex_Mentallo

Gandariel
2010-04-28, 12:04 AM
@Gandariel: Sorry, I closed that trick before putting it up. I had a proofreader. XD

darn.
just imagine how many possibilities it had.... dropping an enormus box of infected cats.... dropping a biiig pot of hot oil.... or a sleeping dragon.... or easily just a mountain...

and... can you use your 100+ strenght to go UNDER (dig or use magic) a city and then push and pull until you make the whole city crumble? (obviously, teleport immediately after)

Lix Lorn
2010-04-28, 06:55 AM
No bonus to jump. XD
And probably NOT, Gandariel, as that's pretty much lifting.

Pft. Flux Mentallo IS like this. ;P

Sydonai
2010-04-29, 03:53 PM
Assuming you could hit anything. Hello, 1/2 BAB.

Hello True-Strike.

Lix Lorn
2010-04-29, 04:19 PM
Yes. (Grin) That was deliberate.

At level 20, you can hit five times a day!

Milskidasith
2010-04-29, 04:50 PM
Yes. (Grin) That was deliberate.

At level 20, you can hit five times a day!

And prepare higher level spell slots... quickened true strike, anybody?

Or a wand/rod of the give you full BAB spells. Or any of the numerous ways to hit more accurately.

Lix Lorn
2010-04-29, 04:55 PM
Good point.
But since he's a spontaneous caster, Quickened True Strike would be pretty pointless.

DMofDarkness
2010-06-29, 01:46 AM
However, if the sorcerer behind him had a ring of wizardry of the appropriate level and the spell 'truestrike', and the mage had a +5 weapon... it would make the MitD (:mitd:) look weak!

Lix Lorn
2010-06-29, 04:09 AM
This is true... does that abuse make it too strong? I could give them a penalty to attack rolls.

jiriku
2010-06-29, 09:41 AM
Spell List
0-Level:Prestidigitation, Read Magic, Resistance, Light, Mage Hand, Guidance, Detect Magic, Flare, Virtue, Daze, Arcane Mark, Lesser Bullís Strength
1st level: Mage Armour, Shield, Bullís Strength, Disguise Self, Cause Fear, Expeditious Retreat, Fortune (As Divine Favour), Magic Weapon, Shield of Might (As Shield of Faith, but the material component is a copper coin), Enlarge Person, Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon)
2nd level: True Strike, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp, Catís Grace, Bears Endurance, Blur, Inflict Light Wounds
3rd level: Magic Missile, Owlís Wisdom, Foxís Cunning, Eagleís Splendour, Lesser Restoration, Inflict Moderate Wounds, Keen Edge, Greater Magic Weapon, Inflict Light Wounds, Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon)
4th level: Lightning Bolt, Phantom Steed, Fly, Stoneskin, Haste, Vampiric Touch, Inflict Serious Wounds, Cure Moderate Wounds
5th level: Shout, Inflict Critical Wounds, Restoration, Cure Serious Wounds, Dimensional Anchor, Enervation, Mass Enlarge Person
6th level: Greater Bullís Strength, Slay Living, Cure Critical Wounds, Mass Inflict Light Wounds, True Seeing, Teleport, Cone of Cold, Overland Flight, Permanancy, Mass Bullís Strength
7th level: Chain Lightning, Freezing Sphere, Mass Catís Grace, Mass Bearís Endurance, Disintegrate, Harm, Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass Cure Light Wounds
8th level: Heal, Mass Cure Moderate Wounds, Greater Teleport, Prismatic Spray, Limited Wish, Greater Restoration, Mass Inflict Serious Wounds
9th level: Scion of Might, Time Stop, Sunburst, Finger of Death, Polar Ray

This whole class breaks a lot of new ground (pardon the pun), so I hardly know where to begin. Let's start with the spell list.

There are some good splatbook spells that you'll want to add to the list. Transcend mortality (CA) comes to mind right away, as does fist of stone (SC). Since you're rolling in some divine spells, consider freedom of movement, consumptive field (SC) and greater consumptive field (SC). And honestly, this just begs for tenser's transformation. I'm sure we can find a way to keep it balanced. Swift haste (SC) might be good, if great strength enables great speed. False life (PHB), iron body (SC), and stone body lend resistance to injury, which also seems thematically appropriate. Also consider heroism, greater heroism, heroics (SC), heroes' feats, and rage. You might as well include energy drain since you've already got enervation. For some reason I'm also feeling ruin delver's fortune (SC) for this class. Also consider animalistic power (PH2) and that greater version of it that gives +4 to all stats.

There are also a number of spells I see on the list that don't seem to fit the theme. Burning hands, magic missile, lightning bolt, phantom steed, teleport, greater teleport, cone of cold, chain lightning, freezing sphere, polar ray...I don't see their connection to the theme of the drawing on the physical might in your muscles. They just seem like a grab bag of random wizard spells. I'd encourage you to either add in some flavor text that explores how muscle mage comes by this sort of magic, or swap these spells out for others such as the ones I mentioned.

Lix Lorn
2010-06-29, 01:54 PM
Well, the idea is that it's not just using the power of muscles, but transforming that power into arcane energy. Note that most of the non personal spells, if I remember rightly, are offensive spells. Also, I remember putting them at higher levels than normal casters get them.

As for your suggested spells, the ONLY book I own is RotD. I'm perfectly happy to add them, but you'll have to suggest levels.

jiriku
2010-06-29, 02:03 PM
Hmm, well, if you're going to use a limited spell list, the list should convey some sort of theme or motif. Think about classes like assassin, paladin, or ranger. Each has a strongly themed spell list that supports a particular type of behavior. What role do envision for the muscle mage? What's her most common function in combat? Out of combat? What does the archetypal muscle mage do/act like?

OTOH, if you see the muscle mage as more of a generalist caster, it might be better to broaden her list dramatically: say, double or triple the number of available spells, or just use the sorcerer/wizard list.

Lix Lorn
2010-06-29, 03:06 PM
It focuses on buffs and direct attack.
Also, notice that it's a full 9 levels of casting, so it should be slightly more versatile than a ranger or something with only 4.

Morph Bark
2010-06-29, 03:14 PM
Rather than just adding random offensive spells, how about just adding [Earth] spells?

Remember that Alex Luis Armstrong pic a little above? Yeah, DAT'S WAT I'M TALKIN' ABOUT.

lesser_minion
2010-06-29, 04:45 PM
Good point.
But since he's a spontaneous caster, Quickened True Strike would be pretty pointless.

Actually, spontaneous casters have access to the Rapid Metamagic feat, which does away with the penalty.

And before that, you could have used Spell Preparation, from Complete Arcane.

Overall, I think you'd be better off not requiring (or permitting) absurd strength scores at all.

imp_fireball
2010-06-29, 05:22 PM
Finally, we can have orc mages. :P

Lix Lorn
2010-06-29, 07:05 PM
Actually, spontaneous casters have access to the Rapid Metamagic feat, which does away with the penalty.

And before that, you could have used Spell Preparation, from Complete Arcane.

Overall, I think you'd be better off not requiring (or permitting) absurd strength scores at all.
Point taken, but it's still not something they can do regularly. They only have so many spellslots to quicken it with, and if they just cast it the normal way, then it takes two turns to attack.

You're probably right, but... that was the entire point of the class.

grimbold
2010-07-05, 08:14 AM
pretty interesting, as the holes are being fixed this is becoming a reasonably solid class, god combat must be interesting, have you ever played one of these?

Lix Lorn
2010-07-05, 04:38 PM
I have not... it's a good point. I must try it!

lesser_minion
2010-07-05, 05:18 PM
I think using the normal rules for casting based on an ability would be fine -- after all, a +10 to strength makes a character four times as strong.

A character with the strength of ten people is still ridiculously strong, and that's only a 27.

By comparison, Strength 90 is the strength of 65,536 people.

Lix Lorn
2010-07-05, 06:01 PM
How is Strength 27 ten people?

I know it would make more sense. This is just more interesting. DXD

lesser_minion
2010-07-05, 06:22 PM
How is Strength 27 ten people?

I know it would make more sense. This is just more interesting. DXD

I'm never going to convince you, am I?

In any event, yes, +10 to strength means you can exert four times the force. It's a logarithmic scale.

Lix Lorn
2010-07-05, 06:38 PM
You can convince me that S27 is ten people, (I'll take your word for it, it's too late at night for maths) but not that the simple way is better. XD

lesser_minion
2010-07-05, 06:49 PM
Couldn't you give them a strength bonus each time they cast a spell?

Lix Lorn
2010-07-05, 07:03 PM
Possibly... :/ But that kinda does the opposite. That makes them better at hitting things the more they cast, rather than vice versa, as was the intention.

Plus, I'd need to rework most of the class.

lesser_minion
2010-07-05, 07:10 PM
Well... how about an ability that gives them a strength bonus, and then have spellcasting erode that bonus?

You don't really want a class with a strength score that's completely and utterly out-of-whack. Mount Everest as a weapon or not.

Lix Lorn
2010-07-05, 07:13 PM
Well... how about an ability that gives them a strength bonus, and then have spellcasting erode that bonus?

You don't really want a class with a strength score that's completely and utterly out-of-whack. Mount Everest as a weapon or not.
That's what I have now.

Why not?

lesser_minion
2010-07-05, 07:26 PM
That's what I have now.

Why not?

Well, something more like a warlock's casting, but with a per-encounter limit.

So something like:

Arcane Might (Su): At the start of an encounter, the muscle mage gains a number of might points equal to her class level (she loses any might she has at the end of the encounter).

For the purposes of everything except spellcasting, the muscle mage gains a bonus to strength equal to her remaining might.

Might be an improvement.

It also means you can give the class a halfway-decent base attack bonus, which makes some sense -- after all, a class that's all about being ridiculously strong should be pretty mean in a fight as well.

Lix Lorn
2010-07-05, 07:33 PM
I don't know anything about Warlocks tho.

Lix Lorn
2012-01-05, 10:10 PM
This was so broken it was making me cry when I saw it in my signature. Revamp'd.

Also, since I'm allowed to...

I CALL THEE, LONG FORGOTTEN POSTS, RISE FROM YOUR GRAVES AND SERVE AGAIN... RAISE THREAD.

Morph Bark
2012-01-05, 10:13 PM
Awww, and here I was with my list of Homebrew To Maybe Create Or Something including a Strength-caster of my own, thinking I could do better than this. :smalltongue:

Nice to see a revamp though. I see you kept some of it in that you need 10 + 2 x spell level Str, instead of 1x as with Int/Wis/Cha casters.

Lix Lorn
2012-01-06, 04:31 PM
Heh, feel free to leave it on the list. xD

Yeah, I did want to actually keep it slightly different. Hopefully this is different but equal.

Amechra
2012-01-07, 01:46 AM
http://i.imgur.com/2rAQj.jpg

This is what I thought of when I saw this.

super dark33
2012-01-07, 07:32 AM
Huh. i remember thinking of it a few months ago while looking in the redblade custumize campeign tab.

that is a better maniefesting of this idea.

Lix Lorn
2012-01-07, 10:40 AM
http://i.imgur.com/2rAQj.jpg

This is what I thought of when I saw this.
This is perfectly reasonable.


Huh. i remember thinking of it a few months ago while looking in the redblade custumize campeign tab.

that is a better maniefesting of this idea.
Thanks~

gkathellar
2012-01-07, 11:25 AM
http://i.imgur.com/2rAQj.jpg

This is what I thought of when I saw this.

Source plz?

tbok1992
2013-06-17, 01:28 AM
http://i.imgur.com/2rAQj.jpg

This is what I thought of when I saw this.

I really like how the creator of the Muscle Mage class actually integrated the "I CAST FIST!" part as a new spell.

Lix Lorn
2013-06-17, 01:42 PM
I'm pretty sure I based the class on that picture. xD
Both those two spells are actually based on spells from orcs and goblins in warhammer fantasy.