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View Full Version : Fighter feats rewrite and a class feature, PEACH



Eldan
2010-04-27, 07:59 AM
So, this partially spawned out of the Fighter Manifesto thread, and is partially something I wanted to do anyway. One of the many problem a fighter has is that there aren't enough feat chains and high level feats to give him anything meaninful at higher levels, and that feats don't scale with level. I'd like and try to at least partially correct that by lengthening existing feat chains and make existing feats scale with level.
Now, these aren't done yet, and it will take a while, but I thought I'd start with one feat chain for now, Two-weapon fighting. It still needs more feats, so suggestions are welcome.

First of all, a suggested class feature for the fighter, though. I'd like to say first that this isn't mean to fix the class all by itself and is instead rather meant as one of several features the fighter in a full fix should get. The name is shamelessly stolen from Fax Celestis' d20r, I hope he doesn't mind too much, otherwise, I'll rename it.

Prowess: For all feats marked with [Prowess], all which have a bonus or ability scaling with character level, fighter levels count double. Therefore, for these feats, a fighter 8 would count as a level 16 character, while a Fighter 2/Rogue 3 would count as level 7.

Parry Bonuses: The parry bonus is a new armour class bonus. It applies to touch AC, but is lost when flat-footed.
The following boni are parry boni:
-the AC bonus from fighting defensively or using the total defense action.
-the AC bonus from a defending weapon
-the boni from several of the feats mentioned below


Rewritten feats:

Two-weapon fighting [General, Prowess]

You can fight with a weapon in each hand.

Prerequisites: Dex 15
Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6. See the Two-Weapon Fighting special attack.
These penalties are lessened by another 1 for every ten character levels.


Improved Two-weapon fighting

Prerequisites: Dex 15, Two-Weapon Fighting, Base attack bonus +6
Benefit:When your base attack bonus reaches +6, you can make a second attack with your off-hand weapon, at a -5 penalty. When your base attack bonus reaches +11, you can make a third attack with a -10 penalty, and when it reaches +16, you can make a fourth attack with a -15 penalty.


Two-Weapon Defense [General, Prowess]

Prerequisites: Dex 15, Two-Weapon Fighting.
Benefit When wielding a double weapon or two weapons (not including natural weapons or unarmed strikes), you gain a +1 parry bonus to your AC. This bonus increases by +1 per four character levels.

When you are fighting defensively or using the total defense action, this parry bonus increases by +2.


Two-Weapon Rend[General, Prowess]

Prerequisites: Str 13, Dex 15, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-weapon Fighting, BAB 6+
Benefit If the you hit an opponent with a weapon in each hand in the same round, you may automatically rend the opponent. This deals additional damage equal to the base damage of the smaller weapon plus your strength bonus plus one damage per two character levels. Base weapon damage includes an enhancement bonus on damage, if any.
You only rend once per round, regardless of how many successful attacks you make.


Cleave [General, Prowess]

Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack
Benefit: If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach. You cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack. The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature. You can use this ability once per round, plus an additional time per five character levels.


Dodge [General, Prowess]

Prerequisites: Dex 13.
Benefit During your round , you designate an opponent and receive a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks from that opponent. You can select a new opponent on any action. This bonus increases by +1 for every five character levels.


Far Shot [General, Prowess]

Prerequisites Point Blanc Shot
Benefit: When you use a ranged weapon, it's range increment is doubled. For every eight character levels, your range increment multiplier increases by one (to x3 at level 8, x4 at level 16 and so on).


Improved Bull Rush [General, Prowess]

Prerequisites Str 13, Power Attack
Benefit When you perform a bull rush you do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender. You also gain a +4 bonus on the opposed Strength check you make to push back the defender. This bonus increases by +1 for every four character levels.


Improved Disarm [General, Prowess]

Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise.
Benefit You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you attempt to disarm an opponent, nor does the opponent have a chance to disarm you. You also gain a +2 bonus on the opposed attack roll you make to disarm your opponent, which increases by +1 for every four character levels.


Improved Feint [General, Prowess]

Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise.
Benefit: You can make a Bluff check to feint in combat as a swift action. You also gain a +1 bonus for every three character levels on your bluff check to feint.


Improved Grapple [General, Prowess]

Prerequisites: Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you make a touch attack to start a grapple. You also gain a +4 bonus on all grapple checks, regardless of whether you started the grapple. This bonus increases by +1 for every four character levels.


Improved Initiative [General, Prowess]

Benefit You get a +4 bonus on initiative checks. This bonus increases by +1 for every six character levels.


Improved Overrun [General, Prowess]

Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack.
Benefit: When you attempt to overrun an opponent, the target may not choose to avoid you. You also gain a +4 bonus on your Strength check to knock down your opponent. This bonus increases by +1 for every four character levels.


Improved Trip [General, Prowess]

Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise
Benefit: You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you attempt to trip an opponent while you are unarmed. You also gain a +4 bonus on your Strength check to trip your opponent. This bonus increases by +1 for every four character levels.

If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadnít used your attack for the trip attempt.


Mobility [General, Prowess]

Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge
Benefit:
You get a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks of opportunity caused when you move out of or within a threatened area. This bonus increases by +1 for every three character levels.

Furthermore, for every six character levels, your base land speed increases by 5ft.


Saving Throw Focus: [General]

Benefit: Choose a save type (Fortitude, Reflex or Will).
You get a +2 bonus on all saving throws of that type. This bonus increases by +1 for every five character levels.
Additionally, once per day, and an additional time per day for every six character levels, you may reroll a save of the chosen type.


Skill Focus [General]

Benefit: Choose one skill. You gain a +3 bonus on all checks involving that skill. This bonus increases by +1 for every two character levels.
Additionally, this skill is always treated as a class skill for you.


Spring Attack [General]

Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, BAB +6
Benefit: As part of a full attack action, you can move up to your speed, distributing your attacks between each enemy you pass by. However, you can not attack any enemy attacked this way more than once, and you have to move at least five feet between every attack.

Your movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity from any foe you attack this way.



Weapon Focus [General, Prowess]

Prerequisites: Proficiency with the chosen weapon group, BAB +1
Benefit: Choose one weapon group. You gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls with all weapons of the chosen weapon group. This bonus increases by +1 every four character levels.


Weapon Specialization [General, Prowess]

Prerequisites: Proficiency with the chosen weapon group, Weapon Focus with the chosen weapon group. BAB +4
Benefit: You gain a +2 damage bonus with all weapons of the chosen group. This damage bonus increases by +1 every two character levels after the fourth.


Weapon Mastery [General, Prowess]

Prerequisites: Proficiency with the chosen weapon group, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization and Improved Critical with the chosen weapon group, BAB +8
Benefit: For all the feats listed as prerequisites for Weapon Mastery, your character level is considered to be four higher. Furthermore, when you make a full attack with a weapon of the chosen group, all your iterative attacks after the first are made with a +5 bonus to their attack rolls. (So a fighter 20 would attack at +20/+20/+15/+10, plus whatever boni he had.


Weapon Supremacy [General, Prowess]

Prerequisites: Proficiency with the chosen weapon group, Weapon Focus, Weapon Mastery, Weapon Specialization, Weapon Technique and Improved Critical with the chosen weapon group, BAB +12
Benefit: When fighting with a weapon of the chosen weapon group, you receive the following benefits:
-You can not be disarmed (if you are fighting with two weapons, you may still lose your second weapon to disarming if it is not in the chosen weapon group).
-Once per day for every five class levels you have, you may reroll a single attack roll with a weapon of the chosen group.
-You have a +4 bonus to confirm critical hits with weapons of the chosen group, and your critical hit multiplier increases by +1.



New Feats:


Main Gauche

Prerequisites: Dex 15, Int 13, Two-weapon fighting, Two-weapon Defense, Combat Expertise
Benefit: When fighting defensively, you only apply the attack penalty to your off-hand. Furthermore, you may choose to use combat expertise only with our off-hand, gaining a +1 dodge bonus to AC for every -2 penalty to attack you take, to a maximum bonus of +5.


Multi-weapon Pounce

Prerequisites: Dex 15, Str 13, Power Attack, Two-weapon fighting, Improved Bull rush, BAB +6, Jump 10 ranks
Benefit: You can combine a charge attack with a jump check. If you cover at least 10 feet horizontally with your jump, you may attack once with every weapon you carry, instead of just with one weapon.
Additionally, you can make a single bull rush or trip attack against the enemy you charge. For this attempt, you are treated as being one size category larger than you are, and armed with a two-handed weapon. You also gain a +1 bonus on your strength check to bull rush or trip for every four points your jump check exceeds 10 by.

Synergy: If you have Two-weapon rend, your bonus damage from it is doubled during a pounce.


Two-weapon feint

Prerequisites: Dex 15, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Feint
Benefit: As a free action, you can give up an attack with one hand to feint as a free action with the other hand.

(needs better wording, help appreciated, but I hope the intent is clear).


Two-weapon Mastery

Prerequisites: Str 13, Dex 15, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Two-weapon fighting, Two-weapon Defence, Two-weapon Rend, Dual Strike, Base attack bonus 12+
You have mastered the art of fighting with one weapon in each hand.
Benefit: As long as you are holding a weapon in each hand, this feat gives you the following benefits:
As long as you retain your dexterity bonus to armour class, you can not be flanked.
Your weapons count as two-handed weapons for calculating your disarm modifier.
Whenever a feat, ability or special attack allows you to make a single attack, you can instead make one attack with each weapon.
You apply your full strength bonus to damage with each weapon.

Synergy: if you have the Dodge feat, you can nominate two targets instead of one and receive a dodge bonus against both of them, as well as any boni which apply to your dodge target from other feats and abilities.


Catch weapon

Prerequisites: Dex 15, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Improved Disarm, Two-weapon fighting, Two-weapon defense
Benefit: Whenever the target of your Dodge feat makes a melee attack you and misses, you can use an attack of opportunity to try and disarm him.


Shield Guard [General, Prowess]

Prerequisities: Shield Proficiency
Benefit: Choose one ally. As long as that ally stays adjacent to you, he profits from your shield bonus as well.
For every five character levels, you may choose one additional ally to profit from your shield bonus, to a maximum of four.


Shield Cover [General]

Prerequisities: Shield Proficiency, Shield Guard
Benefit: Whenever you and ally profiting from your shield bonus via shield guard are both affected by an area effect allowing a reflex save for half damage, you can choose to automatically fail your save, taking the full effect. If you do so, your ally only takes half damage on a failed save or no damage on a successful save.


Weapon Technique [General, Prowess]

Prerequisites: Weapon Focus with the chosen weapon group, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all disarm, feint and trip checks and a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls to sunder with weapons of the chosen group. This bonus increases by +1 for every four character levels.
Furthermore, you gain a +1 bonus to your armour class while wielding a weapon of the chosen group. This bonus increases to +2 when fighting defensively.


Weapon Expert: Axes

Prerequisites: STR 13, Weapon Focus and Weapon Technique with the axes group, Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Base Attack bonus +4
Benefit: Whenever you wound an opponent with a weapon of the axe group, the wound continues to bleed, dealing 1 point of damage per round thereafter. Multiple wounds result in cumulative bleeding loss. The bleeding can be stopped by a DC 10 Heal check or the application of a cure spell or some other healing magic.
Furthermore, whenever you hit an opponent with a weapon of the axe group, you may automatically make attempt to sunder any shield or armour he is wearing.


Weapon Expert: Claw weapons

Prerequisites: Weapon Focus and Weapon Technique with the claw weapon group, base attack bonus +4
Benefit: When attacking with a weapon of the claw weapon group, you may add your unarmed damage to your weapon damage. You may use all abilities which only work while unarmed while wielding a claw weapon.
While wielding a claw weapon, you may make one extra attack in a round at your highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls, as does each other attack made that round.


Hip shot

Prerequisites: Weapon focus with the crossbow weapon group, rapid reload.
Benefit: As a swift action, you may fire a single shot from a crossbow, but if you do so, you suffer a -5 penalty to your attack roll.


Weapon Expert: Double Weapons

Prerequisites: Dex 15+, Two-weapon fighting, Two-weapon defense, Weapon Focus and Weapon Technique with the double weapon group, base attack bonus +4
Benefit: Your parry bonus from two-weapon defense is doubled while wielding a double weapon.
As a free action, you can change your grip on a double weapon, using it as a two-handed weapon dealing damage like either and of the double weapon. Your reach increases by five feet for attacks made in this way. You may even change your grip during a full attack, mixing the two-attack styles freely.


Weapon Expert: Flails and Chains

Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, Weapon Focus and Weapon Technique with the Flails and Chains weapon group, BAB +4
Benefit: Your opponent can not add any parry bonus to AC against attacks you make with a weapon of the flails and chains group.
Whenever you hit an opponent with a weapon of this group, you may make a free disarm attempt against him.


Weapon Expert: Heavy Blades [Prowess]

Prerequisites: STR 13, Power Attack, Cleave, Weapon Focus and Weapon Technique with the heavy blade weapon group, BAB +4
Benefit: When wielding a weapon of the heavy blade group, you gain a +1 parry bonus to AC. This bonus increases by +1 for every five character levels.
Whenever you attack an opponent with a weapon of the heavy blade group, you may decide to either deal slashing or piercing damage.
Finally, whenever you make an extra attack from your cleave feat, you can make a five-foot step before taking your cleave attack.


Weapon Expert: Light Blades

Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, Weapon Focus and Weapon Technique with the light blade group
Benefit: While wielding a light blade, you gain a +1 parry bonus to AC and a +1 initiative bonus. These boni both increases by +1 for every five character levels.
Whenever you attack an opponent with a weapon of the light blade group, you may decide to either deal slashing or piercing damage.
While wielding a light blade, may make one extra attack in a round at your highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls, as does each other attack made that round.


Weapon Expert: Maces, Picks and Hammers

Prerequisites: STR 13, Power Attack, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization and Weapon Technique with the Maces or the Picks and Hammers group, BAB 4+
Benefit: Whenever you attack an opponent with a weapon of the maces or the picks and hammers group, he only applies one half his armour and natural armour boni to armour class.
Whenever you hit an opponent while taking a penalty of -4 or more to hit from your power attack feat while wielding a weapon of these two groups, your opponent must make a fortitude save of DC 10+1/2 your class level + your strength bonus or be dazed until the end of his next turn.


Weapon Expert: Polearms and Spears

Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise Weapon Focus and Weapon Technique with the polearm or the spear group, BAB 4+
Benefit: As a free action, you can change your grip on a weapon of the polearms or the spears group, using it either as a reach weapon (even if it normally isn't a reach weapon, such as a halberd) or against adjacent foes.
Furthermore, whenever you take an attack of opportunity with a weapon of the polearms or spears groups against an opponent moving out of one of your threatened squares, you may immediately take a five-foot step after the attack.

Ashtagon
2010-04-27, 08:58 AM
My take on feats has four principles:

* Merge feat chains into single feats.
* A feat should be worth more to a high-level character than to a low-level character. Feats should scale.
* Static bonuses to d20 rolls should not scale; doing so simply results in a rocket tag situation.
* There should ideally be a defined interaction with action points for every feat.

Skill Training (skill, skill)
* Benefit: This feat has three benefits. Choose two skills. First, you gain a +2 bonus on skill checks with the chosen skills. Second, when you spend an action point to improve a skill check with either skill, you roll d10s instead of d6s. Third, once per day you may re-roll a skill check for either skill, and take the best result. If you spent an action point on that skill check, the bonus from the action points is not re-rolled.
* Scaling: At 9 skill ranks, and every five ranks after that, you gain one additional re-roll per day. The skill with the lower number if ranks is used to determine how many extra re-rolls you get to share between both skills.
* Special: The GM may either provide a list of pre-approved skill pairs that can be chosen with this skill, or else may veto player-chosen pairs of skills chosen with this feat.
* Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. Each time it is taken, a different pair of skills must be chosen.

I purposely avoided having the long list of skill feats in the SRD, and left it to the GM to veto weird combinations.

Skill Focus (skill)
* Benefit: This feat has three benefits. Choose one skill. First, you gain a +3 bonus on skill checks with that skill. Second, when you spend an action point to improve a skill check with this skill, you roll d10s instead of d6s. Third, once per day you may re-roll a skill check for this skill, and take the best result. If you spent an action point on that saving throw, the bonus from the action points is not re-rolled.
* Scaling: At 9 skill ranks, and every five ranks after that, you gain one additional re-roll per day.
* Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. Each time it is taken, a different skill must be chosen.

Save Focus (save)
* Benefit: This feat has three benefits. First, you gain a +2 bonus on one saving throw. Second, when you spend an action point to improve a that saving throw, you roll d10s instead of d6s. Third, once per day you may re-roll that saving throw, and take the best result. If you spent an action point on that saving throw, the bonus from the action points is not re-rolled.
* Scaling: At 6th level, and every five levels after that, you gain one additional re-roll per day.
* Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. Each time it is taken, a different save type must be chosen.

This is basically a single paragraph to define all three saving throw feats.

Weapon Focus (weapon group)
* Benefit: Choose a weapon group. With all weapons in this weapon group, you gain a +1 on attack rolls. If you spend an action point on an attack with this weapon type, you roll d10s instead of d6s, and the action point bonus is applied to both the attack and the damage rolls.
* Special: This feat can be taken multiple times. Each time it is taken, it applies to a different weapon group.
* Scaling: You gain a bonus equal to half your base attack bonus (round down) on damage rolls. If your base attack bonus is +11 or better, you also double the threat range of the weapon.

Coplantor
2010-04-27, 09:04 AM
Me likes! I mean, I dont think it's enough to bump poor old fighter into the powerful tiers, but having scaling abilities feels really good! Gotta use this feats on my gaming group.

Eldan
2010-04-27, 09:08 AM
Well, it's a start, isn't it?
And, well, for those who want it and don't mind a slightly more mystical/magical flavour, I'm also working on more Combat Focus feats and a longer Mage Slayer tree, so that should also help being a little competitive.

Coplantor
2010-04-27, 09:18 AM
Awesome, this will give people playing fighters more options than Ubercharger and Spiked Chain Tripper.

You know what I always wanted to do but couldn't work it out? Weapon choice having a bigger impact on gameplay. Like creating weapon tricks, so each weapon would offer something unique to the wielder

Eldan
2010-04-27, 09:26 AM
Good idea. My first idea was just doing this by damage type, similar to PHBII, like giving the ability to ignore some armour with bludgeoning weapons or deal bleeding wounds with slashing, but weapon groups, like Ashtagon did in her post, might work better for that. Of course, someone more knowledgeable about weaponry than me would have to suggest advantages for different weapon groups first.

Coplantor
2010-04-27, 09:30 AM
Well, we could ask about weapons in the real world weapons thread, get some ideas and and then work on the game weapons. Maybe they can give you some maneuver like ability?

Eldan
2010-04-27, 09:32 AM
Good idea. Though I don't want to make too many special feats, honestly.

Ashtagon: how about also including a clause in Skill training that says that the chosen skill also becomes a class skill for you?

Mongoose87
2010-04-27, 09:33 AM
I'd change TWF to allow you to attack with each weapon as a standard action.

Coplantor
2010-04-27, 09:35 AM
I dont think feats would be necesary, say, X weapon gives A ability to people with BAB 0-4, slightly more powerful B ability to people with 5-9, C for 10-14...

You get the idea right?
Abilities shouln't be flashy or ridiculously supernatural, sometthing along the lines of free disarm atempt, extra AoO, bonus AC, etc...

Eldan
2010-04-27, 09:40 AM
So you mean inherent in the weapon? That would be a rather significant overhaul. Perhaps an other time.

Coplantor
2010-04-27, 09:42 AM
It wouldnt be a magical pump to a character, but people proficient and with good BAB (more combat experienced) would get the most benefits out of it.

Tell me if you are going to do this, so I can help :smallsmile:

Eldan
2010-04-27, 09:43 AM
I'd change TWF to allow you to attack with each weapon as a standard action.

Didn't see that one first...
Actually, that's Dual Strike, isn't it? I would have put that one in the "move and TWF" tree I was going to edit in later.

Ashtagon
2010-04-27, 09:47 AM
Two-Weapon Fighting
* Prerequisite: Dexterity 15.
* Benefit: You suffer a -4/-4 attack penalty when attacking with two weapons, or -2/-2 if the off-hand weapon is a light weapon. See the section on two-weapon fighting in the Combat chapter.
* Normal: You suffer a -6/-10 attack penalty when attacking with two weapons, or -4/-8 if the off-hand weapon is a light weapon.
* Scaling: If you have bab +6 and Dexterity 17, you gain two attacks with your off-hand weapon. If you have bab +11 and Dexterity 19, you gain three attacks with your off-hand weapon. If you have bab +16 and Dexterity 21, you gain four attacks with your off-hand weapon.
* Special: If playing with the d20a variant rules set, where an iterative attack would be gained, you instead gain a re-roll on the attack.

It seemed reasonable to list the modifiers for TWF in the feat, as well as in the combat chapter.

Combat Expertise
* Prerequisite: Intelligence 13.
* Benefit: Once per day you may enter a mental state of mind, in which your defensive fighting skills are improved. Entering this state of mind is a free action which can only be done on your turn. The combat zone lasts for one minute (10 rounds), and provides a +3 dodge bonus to your AC against melee attacks, or a +1 dodge bonus to AC against ranged attacks. In addition, choose one of the following three manoeuvres:
** Improved Disarm: You gain a +4 bonus on disarm attempts, do not provoke attacks of opportunity, and do not risk your weapon being disarmed on an unsuccessful disarm attempt.
** Improved Feint: You can feint as a move action, instead of a standard action.
** Improved Trip: You gain a +4 bonus on trip attempts, and do not provoke attacks of opportunity.
* Scaling: At 6th, 11th, and 16th level, you gain an additional daily use of the mental combat zone ability. You can also choose an additional combat manoeuvre at each of these levels.

Needs a fourth manoeuvre for 19th level scaling purposes.

Mongoose87
2010-04-27, 09:52 AM
Didn't see that one first...
Actually, that's Dual Strike, isn't it? I would have put that one in the "move and TWF" tree I was going to edit in later.

I know, but TWF has enough feat taxes already, right? Might as well let them try to be as good as everyone else. There's no way they're going to touch THF's damage if they're still only going one-handed on standard actions.

Spiryt
2010-04-27, 09:55 AM
Still nothing for Shi(winning conflicts since ~6000 B.C)elds, eh? :smallwink:

But anyway, quite interesting mechanics, I may definitely try to use some of it if I ever do serious D&D again.

Ashtagon
2010-04-27, 11:06 AM
Mobility
* Prerequisite: Dexterity 13.
* Benefit: You gain a +1 dodge bonus to AC against melee attacks.
* Scaling: At 6th level, you gain an additional +4 dodge bonus to AC against attacks of opportunity triggered by your movement. At 11th level, you can split your move action to move both before and after a standard action used to make an attack. At 16th level, as a full-round action, you can make a single attack against every enemy within melee range.
* Action Point: When you spend an action point to improve your AC, you roll d10s instead of d6s.

Power Attack
* Prerequisite: Strength 13.
* Benefit: Once per day you may enter a mental state of mind, in which your offensive fighting skills are improved. Entering this state of mind is a free action which can only be done on your turn. The combat zone lasts for one minute (10 rounds), and doubles the size of your Strength bonus to melee damage rolls. In addition, choose one of the following three manoeuvres.
** Improved Sunder: You gain a +4 bonus on attack rolls made to sunder an object, and do not provoke attacks of opportunity when you attempt to sunder an object.
** Improved Bull Rush: You gain a +4 bonus on attack rolls made bull rush an enemy, and do not provoke attacks of opportunity when you attempt to bull rush an enemy.
** Improved Overrun: You gain a +4 bonus on attack rolls made overrun rush an enemy, and your target may not choose to avoid your overrun attempt.
* Scaling: At 6th, 11th, and 16th level, you gain an additional daily use of the mental combat zone ability. You can also choose an additional combat manoeuvre at each of these levels.
* Action Point: You can spend an action point to gain an additional daily use of your mental combat zone.

Cleave
* Prerequisite: Strength 13, Power Attack, base attack bonus +2.
* Benefit: When you drop an enemy in melee combat, you may an attack with the same weapon against any enemy in range.
* Scaling: As long as you continue dropping opponents with each melee attack, you can make a number of additional attacks equal to half your base attack bonus (round down). If your base attack bonus is +11 or better, you can make a 5-foot step before each additional attack, if desired.

Ashtagon
2010-04-27, 12:46 PM
Toughness
* Benefit: You gain +3 hit points. In addition, choose one of the following three manoeuvres:
** Endurance: You may sleep in light or medium armour without becoming fatigued. Also, You gain a +4 bonus on the following rolls: Swim checks made to resist non-lethal damage, Constitution checks made to continue running, Constitution checks made to avoid non-lethal damage from a forced march, Constitution checks made to hold your breath, Constitution checks made to avoid non-lethal damage from starvation or thirst, Fortitude saves made to avoid non-lethal damage from hot or cold environments, and Fortitude saves made to resist damage from suffocation.
** Run: You move at five times (instead of four time) your normal speed when you take a run action. You cannot be wearing medium or heavy armour, or carrying a medium or heavy load.
** Abs of Steel: As a move action or a standard action, you can flex your muscles, giving you damage resistance against bludgeoning and slashing damage equal to the lower of your Strength or Constitution bonus. This lasts until the start of your next turn.
* Scaling: At 4th level (or 4 HD) and higher, you gain +1 hit point per level. This replaces the basic +3 hp from this feat. At 6th, 11th, and 16th level, you can choose an additional manoeuvre from those listed.

Ashtagon
2010-04-27, 12:55 PM
Hmm, just noticed a general issue with these feats as I am redesigning them - if a character picks one up at mid-high level, it will effectively come pre-packaged with a significant amount of power up already. I'm not entirely sure whether I should consider this a bug or a feature. Opinions?

Milskidasith
2010-04-27, 01:08 PM
Two weapon disarm makes them into two weapons for all situations, not just for disarming, and I assume that wasn't your intent.

Eldan
2010-04-27, 01:38 PM
^You're right... the intention was that you use both weapons to trap the enemy's weapon before disarming him, not anything else like that.


Still nothing for Shi(winning conflicts since ~6000 B.C)elds, eh? :smallwink:

But anyway, quite interesting mechanics, I may definitely try to use some of it if I ever do serious D&D again.

Well, I'm slowly working my way through the different weapon styles. Shield slams and better shield defences are coming up, but those might take a while. I still have ideas for TWF to finish, especially TWF+moving and TWF+better offence. Ideas there include better Two-weapon rend and a way for subsequent attacks in a turn to ignore some of the damage reduction of a creature.

Spiryt
2010-04-27, 01:57 PM
Well, I'm slowly working my way through the different weapon styles. Shield slams and better shield defences are coming up, but those might take a while. I still have ideas for TWF to finish, especially TWF+moving and TWF+better offence. Ideas there include better Two-weapon rend and a way for subsequent attacks in a turn to ignore some of the damage reduction of a creature.

Well, I think that with mechanics you're coming up with, shield fighting could just be version of TWF, that provides much more AC and probably some different bonuses instead of much damage.

It could be quite elegant solutions (I think).

Eldan
2010-04-27, 02:22 PM
True enough, since shield slams already work mostly like Two-weapon fighting. Perhaps a new branch of the TWF tree, then.

Ashtagon
2010-04-27, 03:35 PM
I'd rather see feats that make shields get used for what they were designed to do - defend. Stuff like:

* Defend Ally: Apply your shield bonus to an adjacent ally.
** Greater Defend Ally: Apply your shield bonus to all adjacent allies.

* Shield Parry: Attempt to deflect one attack (melee or ranged) per round, by rolling bab + Dex modifier + shield bonus vs enemy's attack roll.
** Improved Shield Parry: As shield Parry, but twice per round.
*** Greater Shield Parry: As shield Parry, but three times per round.
**** Perfect Shield Parry: As shield Parry, but four times per round.

* Weapon Parry: Attempt to deflect one attack (melee only) per round, by rolling bab + Dex modifier vs enemy's attack roll. (yes, this is intentionally inferior to Shield Parry).

Eldan
2010-04-27, 03:37 PM
Hmm. I don't know about the parry mechanic. It's another roll every round and further slows down combat. The shield bonus itself is already supposed to represent parrying with it. Defend Ally is already a separate tree I've been working on, though.

Mongoose87
2010-04-27, 04:00 PM
Hmm. I don't know about the parry mechanic. It's another roll every round and further slows down combat. The shield bonus itself is already supposed to represent parrying with it. Defend Ally is already a separate tree I've been working on, though.

I second that view, on the parry. While verisimilitude is nice, the game needs to remain enjoyable.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-04-27, 05:14 PM
The trouble with these, Eldan, is that your fighter has invested 6 feats in disarming. He only gets 18 total. 1/3 of his entire character progression is now solely focused on disarming. Compare that to a Sorcerer, who might have 1 spell out of 40 odd spells focused on disarming a foe.

What you really need to do is either make scaling feats (with multiple techniques per feat), or have higher-level feats combine more benefits into single feats. Personally, I think scaling feats are the way to go.

Eldan
2010-04-28, 07:57 AM
Well, I'm trying to do scaling feats. I'm just not sure how much to pack into them. And things like Two-weapon disarm are, well, new techniques, really, which combine two precursor feats. I'm not sure how to handle them.
Maybe make something like the style feats as the end point of the TWF tree, with two weapon disarm being one of three options? Or include it in catch weapon?

Coplantor
2010-04-28, 08:03 AM
What about feat synergy? The more feats from a kind you get, the higher the bonus gets. Similar to Psionic body that gives you 2hp per psionic feat, maybe instead of counting fighter levels twice, you could count hem 1.5 times plus 1 per prowess feat? Fighters get the most feats in the game, so it's only natural for them to improve faster on them.

Eldan
2010-04-28, 08:46 AM
Hmm. Good idea, actually. But that would mean putting them in categories, which would mean more keywords or a similar mechanic. I'll look into it.

Coplantor
2010-04-28, 08:48 AM
Well, you can keep a broad category of just Prowess, but them some completly unrelated feats would improve the bonuses between them and that would be weird. Although you can justify it by saying theey are all related to "combat experience" :smalltongue:

Eldan
2010-04-28, 12:49 PM
Okay. I've offed Two-weapon disarm and replaced it with Two-weapon mastery. That should be the end of that path, then, with seven prerequisites. feels like it needs a little more, though. Suggestions?

Eldan
2010-04-30, 07:34 AM
Okay, three new feats: two for body guard types, one for power attackers.

I'm not sure on the second one... on the one hand, daze is available as a 0-level spell for caster types, and it's just a feat that seems to make sense, on the other hand, dazing enemies left and right just seems too good to me...

Edit: and a few more, this time dealing with specializing in one weapon. Those were the easy ones, of course.

Eldan
2010-05-11, 06:55 AM
Added weapon group expert feats. PEACH still applies.

Eldan
2010-05-12, 06:04 AM
Okay, added a lot of the boring feats.
Is anyone actually ever looking at this?

WrathOfLife
2010-05-12, 09:40 AM
Okay, added a lot of the boring feats.
Is anyone actually ever looking at this?

*raises hand* I totally am since I'll be using some in your game.

I'm curious if you'll change combat reflexes, power attack, toughness (improved or otherwise) or improved sunder.

Eldan
2010-05-12, 12:11 PM
Power Attack and Combat Reflexes actually get taken, so I think they are fine. Note how they both add a new ability which already scales.

And I think I just forgot Improved Sunder.

WrathOfLife
2010-05-12, 08:28 PM
Power Attack and Combat Reflexes actually get taken, so I think they are fine. Note how they both add a new ability which already scales.

And I think I just forgot Improved Sunder.

In your defense sundering is almost always a bad idea.

Are you going to look into changing mobility? I've never really found it attractive, but it is the next step towards Elusive target.

Skill focus, does that mean I can take it on a crossed class skill and it suddenly becomes a class skill for me?

Eldan
2010-05-13, 05:35 AM
Skill Focus: yes it does.

Mobility should be on the list somewhere, I thought. It gives a speed bonus.

WrathOfLife
2010-05-13, 07:34 PM
Skill Focus: yes it does.

Mobility should be on the list somewhere, I thought. It gives a speed bonus.

I can't seem to be able to find it, a speed bonus would be cool....

Ooooh, what about die hard? and *sigh* endurance?

Eldan
2010-05-13, 07:37 PM
Found Mobility, had it on my google docs. I'll put it up here sometime later.

Endurance is ****ing hopeless, though... what am I supposed to do with that?

DueceEsMachine
2010-05-13, 07:52 PM
Hmm, just noticed a general issue with these feats as I am redesigning them - if a character picks one up at mid-high level, it will effectively come pre-packaged with a significant amount of power up already. I'm not entirely sure whether I should consider this a bug or a feature. Opinions?

Well, just my two cents, but maybe the bonuses should start from the level the character took the feat at.
For example, a character who specializes at level 4 in longsword is going to be better with it at level 16 than a character who specialized at level 12 and made it to 16.

Just a thought.

Eldan
2010-05-13, 08:08 PM
A reasonable idea, I think, but on the other hand, it adds another layer of book-keeping, and I'd like to minimize that kind of thing.

That, and when someone really has nothing better to take than Weapon Focus: Longsword at level 16, he deserves all the boni he can get.

DueceEsMachine
2010-05-13, 08:23 PM
True, I hadn't thought of that. Hm. well, I'll keep brainstorming, but I like what you've done so far. Very impressive work. :smallbiggrin:

WrathOfLife
2010-05-13, 09:00 PM
Found Mobility, had it on my google docs. I'll put it up here sometime later.

Endurance is ****ing hopeless, though... what am I supposed to do with that?

Perhaps a small scaling general bonus to stuff like climb, jump, swim, ride and tumble?

Eldan
2010-05-14, 05:43 AM
I have an alternative idea, though one which needs a little bit more homebrewing to work. Let me explain:

Endurance is absorbed into Great Fortitude. It becomes a feat which does not only give a flat fortitude bonus, but several other small abilities. Bonus on checks for running and weather comes early, then sleeping in armour, then perhaps things like poison and disease resistance, death magic and so on.

I'd probably do something similar for the other saves. For that, I'd like a few ideas on what to do with reflex and will.

Ideas:
Reflex: ?
Will: better seeing through illusions, slippery mind, resisting spells?

WrathOfLife
2010-05-14, 08:14 AM
I have an alternative idea, though one which needs a little bit more homebrewing to work. Let me explain:

Endurance is absorbed into Great Fortitude. It becomes a feat which does not only give a flat fortitude bonus, but several other small abilities. Bonus on checks for running and weather comes early, then sleeping in armour, then perhaps things like poison and disease resistance, death magic and so on.

I'd probably do something similar for the other saves. For that, I'd like a few ideas on what to do with reflex and will.

Ideas:
Reflex: ?
Will: better seeing through illusions, slippery mind, resisting spells?

Thats a cool idea.

For reflex what about a reflex save to prevent bad things from failed dex checks. Like you fail a jump check and gain a reflex save to grab the ledge instead? Or fail a climb check and get a reflex save to grab something on the way down. A bonus to init is always welcome too.

For will, what about a bonus against fear effects. They always frustrate me. Why isn't a frenzied zerker immune to fear effects while in a frenzy?!

Eldan
2010-05-14, 08:16 AM
Well, most of those are will saves already, so a flat bonus to will save would already help with those... I'm looking for things in which a save alone wouldn't help too much.

WrathOfLife
2010-05-22, 01:13 AM
Well, most of those are will saves already, so a flat bonus to will save would already help with those... I'm looking for things in which a save alone wouldn't help too much.

What about, for Ref, on beating a touch/ranged touch attack you can reflect it back?

Will, maybe limited SR, link it to the Will save maybe? So its not going to stop everything but every now and then it will pull you through.

Fort maybe delay the effects of a failed save? E.g. a flesh to stone might take 3 rounds to come into effect instead of instant?

Eldan
2010-05-22, 12:34 PM
Oh, I like that last one. I think I'll include it.

Eldan
2010-05-24, 09:49 AM
Okay. It's been a while, but by a player's request: Mobility and Spring Attack. Also, a new feat, multiweapon pounce.

Based on the actual pouncing done by large cats, it allows one attack per weapon, instead of full attacking. Perhaps I'll make a higher-level feat for that.

Mongoose87
2010-05-24, 09:58 AM
1. That still sucks, compared to any decent THFer.

2. You said every weapon you carry, not wield. This is problematic.

Eldan
2010-05-24, 01:33 PM
I know it still sucks compared to THF, but then, pretty much every style does compared to that. Suggestions welcome.

Pechvarry
2010-05-24, 06:41 PM
I haven't read a lot of responses yet, kinda in a hurry. So very sorry if this has been mentioned:

It looks like with your versions, a non-fighter 20 gets something like +12 to a skill with skill focus. And a non-fighter 20 gets something like +9 to a target save, likely doubling their base save value. Improved Initiative also scales enough to be even more potent in the hands of a mage.

Is this expected behavior?

Eldan
2010-05-25, 01:48 AM
With very few possible exceptions, a +12 to a skill will rarely be a problem. It also isn't a prowess feat, so fighters don't get a higher plus. In the cases where it is a problem, it's more one with the skills (use magic device, mainly), not with the feat, I'd say.

Similarly, I think that investing a feat in a save should pay off. I'm probably lowering the save bonus slightly, the target effect should have been making a low save about equivalent to a high one with the feat. I'll have to go through the values again, since in the first version, I didn't do it like that.

Improved Initiative, again: investing a feat should be worth something. I admit that it's a good feat for mages, but it also is for everyone else, and mages already have a long list of good feats to choose from. (Metamagic and metamagic reducers, mostly).

Kurrel
2010-05-25, 04:28 AM
Have you thought of perhaps attaching the scaling of powers to BAB rather than level?
This makes the feats more useful to fighters and less so to non-combat focussed classes.

I've used your system (with the BAB scaling suggested above) recently and the pair of fighters in the party both said they felt it made more sense.

After discussion, they have also suggested the following feats and I was wondering what you thought of it,

Massive strike - Requires weapon focus with 2-handed weapons and 2 attacks in a round.
Effect - Abandon all attacks but the first in a full attack and gain the bonus of abandoned attacks as a to hit AND damage bonus. For example, +7/+2 becomes +9 attack and + 2 damage.
I personally think this is a little weak, and wonder whether adding a fort resist/exhaustion or something would make losing multiple attacks for one almighty blow would be better. Alternatively, double the damage bonus.

Leading Weapon - Two weapon Fighting, able to attack at least 4 times a round
Effect - Using one weapon as a threatening distraction, abandon one attack and consider enemy to be flanked.
No idea what knock on effect this might have but it seems reasonable.

Eldan
2010-05-25, 09:34 AM
The second one is basically realized by Two-weapon feint: you distract with one weapon, strike with the other.

Massive strike: usually, against all but the most tricked out foes, most of the fighters attacks will hit even with massive power attack, so I'm not sure if this is ever worth it, really. Especially the damage won't ever do much. The hit, maybe, since you can trade it for x3 or so power attack. Still, I'm not sure it's useful...

Multiweapon pounce actually seemed worse than Dual Strike, which wasn't the intention. I introduced a small change into it.

Also, Saving throw focus has it's progression slowed down, it should now be about equal to improving a low save to a high one.

As for Base attack: seems to make sense for a lot of feats, actually, especially he Prowess ones. Not so much Initiative, skills or saves, though.

Pechvarry
2010-05-25, 12:07 PM
Have you thought of perhaps attaching the scaling of powers to BAB rather than level?

I didn't want to go plugging my own ideas, but I should be altruistic with them:

I've been trying to put together something like these feats for a while, except my measure (something I've simply been calling Feat Level) is Half BAB + Half fighter level. Classes with an effective fighter level minus some amount subtract at the end. So at 20, a Wizard would have a FL of 5, a Barbarian would have a 10, a Fighter would have a 20, and a Warblade would have an 18.

A measure like that could probably be adapted without the halving considering these feats expect an eventual prowess of 40. Easy enough to change it to full BAB + full fighter level.

Eldan
2010-05-28, 09:18 AM
Fair enough, I'll change it this weekend.
I also rewrote Multi-weapon pounce again, inspired by seeing another video of attacking lions.
What do people think now?

Kaiyanwang
2010-05-28, 10:15 AM
My take on feats has four principles:

* Merge feat chains into single feats.
* A feat should be worth more to a high-level character than to a low-level character. Feats should scale.


This, this, this. 1000 time this. BTW, I like what you did.. keep going.

It helps meleers to expand in versatility, keeping power level on a PC level basis.