Ascetic Stalker Sub Feats <3.5>

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

From Complete Scoundrel came a feat for Ninja/Monks who ended up being assassin-wannabes. Here's some flavorful feats, which all require Ascetic Stalker as a prerequisite:

Acupuncture Training
Prerequisite: Ascetic Stalker
You take the time to learn the anatomy of your target's race, and can strike more precisely
If your target is a living non-outsider corporeal creature, you gain a +2 to attack and damage rolls with your Unarmed Strike and piercing weapons. Also, add Knowledge (Anatomy) to your skill list


Five Point Palm Heart Burst
Prerequisites: 15th level or more, Ascetic Stalker, Acupuncture Training, Knowledge (Anatomy) 15 ranks
By mastering anatomy, you learn to cut off certain chakra points to cause the target's heart to burst after 5 steps
You must call this during your attack. This counts as a Stunning Fist use. As a Standard Action, you make "one" attack. Your target must make a DC 10+your wisdom+1/2 your class levels or be exhausted for 5 rounds. Add a +2 to the DC if preformed as part of a Sudden Strike. After those 5 rounds, the target dies instantly, their heart exploding within their chest. If the target would be immune to Sneak Attacks/Sudden Strike is immune to this attack. If you miss, treat it as if you hadn't used the Stunning Fist in the first place.

Acupressure Healing
Prerequisites: Ascetic Stalker, Acupuncture Training, Knowledge (Anatomy) 5, Heal 8
Your knowledge of chakra pools allows you to bring an ally back from the brink of death, through your touch
You gain a Paladin's Lay on Hands ability equal to your combined monk and ninja levels. You can only do this to others

Monkey Twists the Bamboo
Prerequisites:15th level, Ascetic Stalker, Acupuncture Training, Knowledge (Anatomy) 12
You sneak up on your foe, wrapping your hands on their head, twisting sharply and snap the target's neck
If you score a critical hit with an unarmed attack against a grappled, flat-footed, or helpless opponent, you may break the target's neck. Treat your unarmed strike as a Coup de Grace attack, and add your Sudden Strike damage to the damage dealt.

If your opponent succeeds on this saving throw, it must make an additional Fortitude save at the same DC or be stunned for 1 round.

This attack can be used for a nonlethal strike. Treat the target as prone and flatfooted for 1d8+1/2 your class levels+WIS rounds

Dim Mach Strike
Prerequisite: Quivering Palm, Ascetic Stalker
You are a master of the Dun Moch, the "death touch," which can kill with even the lightest tap, or temporarily sever chakra to make a quick escape
When you preform your Quivering Palm, you add your Sudden Strike Dice to damage, due to your fast hands. You may also use this as a nonlethal attack


What do y'all think?

[DragoonWraith]

They seem fine, though the feat is Ascetic Stalker, not Astetic...

The only one I have commentary on, really, is the first: adding Knowledge (Anatomy) is kind of useless since there's nothing in particular that that skill is supposed to do. I mean, yeah, you get the idea of what it's supposed to do, but how does it work? When do you need to make those rolls?

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

They seem fine, though the feat is Ascetic Stalker, not Astetic...

The only one I have commentary on, really, is the first: adding Knowledge (Anatomy) is kind of useless since there's nothing in particular that that skill is supposed to do. I mean, yeah, you get the idea of what it's supposed to do, but how does it work? When do you need to make those rolls?

I should have explained the skill. My bad.

The skill is used as an augmentation of Heal (as spellcraft and psicraft). Its used to determine the severity of wounds, another way to ID monsters, ect.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Most are good.

Five Point Heart Burst and Monkey Twists the Bamboo, however, are a little to strong. At will death attacks (especially with the insanely high DC of FPHB) should really exist.

5 rounds of exhaustion alone might be worth a feat, and I'd much rather see a standard action attack than a full-round attack. Perhaps change Five Point Heart Burst so that it deals X Con damage each round on a failed Fortitude save. Treat it like a disease: 1d4 Con damage per round (Fort DC 10 + Wis + 1/2 level) negates. Two successful saves overcomes the ailment. Or something similar. Either way, don't double the DC for a Sudden Strike (although a Sudden Strike might also fatigue them for the duration), and use a standard DC formula.

Monkey Twists the Bamboo is just overly complex, and overly powerful. 2 saves to avoid all but instant death is insanely good for a feat, especially a 9th level feat. Power it down, my friend. Power it down.

Maybe whenever you make a Sudden Strike your opponent must save or be Stunned for 1 round (and gains a +4 bonus against subsequent uses of this ability)? That's still really potent...

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

Most are good.

Five Point Heart Burst and Monkey Twists the Bamboo, however, are a little to strong. At will death attacks (especially with the insanely high DC of FPHB) should really exist.

5 rounds of exhaustion alone might be worth a feat, and I'd much rather see a standard action attack than a full-round attack. Perhaps change Five Point Heart Burst so that it deals X Con damage each round on a failed Fortitude save. Treat it like a disease: 1d4 Con damage per round (Fort DC 10 + Wis + 1/2 level) negates. Two successful saves overcomes the ailment. Or something similar. Either way, don't double the DC for a Sudden Strike (although a Sudden Strike might also fatigue them for the duration), and use a standard DC formula.

Monkey Twists the Bamboo is just overly complex, and overly powerful. 2 saves to avoid all but instant death is insanely good for a feat, especially a 9th level feat. Power it down, my friend. Power it down.

Maybe whenever you make a Sudden Strike your opponent must save or be Stunned for 1 round (and gains a +4 bonus against subsequent uses of this ability)? That's still really potent...

I meant for them both to be 15th level feats

[DragoonWraith]

I should have explained the skill. My bad.

The skill is used as an augmentation of Heal (as spellcraft and psicraft). Its used to determine the severity of wounds, another way to ID monsters, ect.
Just use Heal; that's what everyone else (Wizards included) does.

[Mulletmanalive]

I like the idea of an Astetic Stalker though. Puts me in mind of Gok Wan [a very gay oriental chap who does a clothing show on british TV] dressed as Rambo and hunting shell suits...

Oddly enough, we did a very similar thing in an oriental game yonks ago, though with that it was Ascetic Rogue...

Basically, we had Sneak attack replaced with Subdual damage = heal modifier.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

Just use Heal; that's what everyone else (Wizards included) does.

right, but it gives a boost to Heal checks

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I meant for them both to be 15th level feats

Well, Monkey Twists the Bamboo is available at 9th level (12 ranks in a skill is 9th level). Either way, at-will death attacks at 15th (or 9th level, or 18th level) level aren't a good idea. I'd suggest, from the perspective of someone trying to balance your creations AND make an encounter fun and engaging for the whole party, that you change them.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

Well, Monkey Twists the Bamboo is available at 9th level (12 ranks in a skill is 9th level). Either way, at-will death attacks at 15th (or 9th level, or 18th level) level aren't a good idea. I'd suggest, from the perspective of someone trying to balance your creations AND make an encounter fun and engaging for the whole party, that you change them.

I got it. I'll make it 1/encounter, that way, someone can't go all Solid Snake, snapping everyone's neck within ten feet of him

[DragoonWraith]

I like the idea of an Astetic Stalker though. Puts me in mind of Gok Wan [a very gay oriental chap who does a clothing show on british TV] dressed as Rambo and hunting shell suits...
Haha, that would be asthetic, which is pretty much the opposite of ascetic. Heh, that is amusing, thanks for the smile.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I got it. I'll make it 1/encounter, that way, someone can't go all Solid Snake, snapping everyone's neck within ten feet of him

1/encounter Fire Point Heart Burst is much more reasonable. I would, however, revert to the normal DC (10 + 1/2 level + Wis), and change the Sudden Strike bonus to +2 to the DC, rather than doubling it. Then, make it a standard action.

Monkey Twists the Bamboo is still a little to mechanically complicated for a feat, in my mind. Can you simplify it a bit?

[The Tygre]

Five Point Heart Burst
Prerequisites: 15th level or more, Ascetic Stalker, Acupuncture Training, Knowledge (Anatomy) 15 ranks
By mastering anatomy, you learn to cut off certain chakra points to cause the target's heart to burst after 5 steps
You must call this during your attack. As a full attack, you make "one" attack. Your target must make a DC 13+your wisdom+1/2 your class levels or be exhausted for 5 rounds. the DC is doubled if preformed as part of a Sudden Strike. After those 5 rounds, the target dies instantly, their heart exploding within their chest. If the target would be immune to Sneak Attacks/Sudden Strike is immune to this attack.

What do y'all think?

"Pai Mei taught you the Five-Point-Palm-Exploding-Heart-Technique?"

[Mulletmanalive]

Haha, that would be asthetic, which is pretty much the opposite of ascetic. Heh, that is amusing, thanks for the smile.

I thought the spelling seemed off. And you're welcome!

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

1/encounter Fire Point Heart Burst is much more reasonable. I would, however, revert to the normal DC (10 + 1/2 level + Wis), and change the Sudden Strike bonus to +2 to the DC, rather than doubling it. Then, make it a standard action.

Monkey Twists the Bamboo is still a little to mechanically complicated for a feat, in my mind. Can you simplify it a bit?

Ok. I just want the DC to be hard to suceed

and how else would snapping someone's neck be done? You sneak up, grab their head, and they make a pair of Fort saves to avoid death and paralysis

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Ok. I just want the DC to be hard to suceed

A Death Attack is already potent enough that a DC increase isn't necessary. The +2 from Sudden Strike is enough of a bonus. +4 is overkill, as is a 13 base (10 is the norm for a reason).

A character who has optimized his Fortitude save to the extent you optimized your DC should have a 50% chance to save. The +2 bonus for Sudden Strike puts him at a 40% chance to save. That's good enough. More is to powerful.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

Fixed. The save is a *&^#% to suceed, but is doable.

And how precisely can snapping someone's neck be simpler?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Fixed. The save is a *&^#% to suceed, but is doable.

Excellent. The only other suggestion I have is that, if this is going to be an at-will ability, perhaps make it two saves: one for the Exhaustion, and another at the end of the duration to avoid death. A at-will five round delayed instant death attack (+Exhaustion) with 2 saves would actually be fairly balanced, I think. Perhaps make the second save at a -2 penalty, or something like that (for a total DC increase of 4 if the target was hit with a Sudden Strike). Alternatively, keep it exactly as it is now, but make it require spending a Stunning Fist attempt.


And how precisely can snapping someone's neck be simpler?

Well, snapping someone's neck isn't something you can do that easily, honestly. Perhaps something like this:


If you score a critical hit with an unarmed attack against a grappled, flat-footed, or helpless opponent, you may break the target's neck. Treat your unarmed strike as a Coup de Grace attack, and add your Sudden Strike damage to the damage dealt.

If your opponent succeeds on this saving throw, it must make an additional Fortitude save at the same DC or be stunned for 1 round.

This means that if you score such a hit (a critical means your foe has set you up perfectly for a devastating attack), your opponent is looking at a DC 10 + damage dealt Fort save to avoid death...and you're adding your full Sudden Strike damage to your attack.

It's specific enough to probably be balanced, and brutal when it works.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

I thought that one save was bad enough... dang!


and I almost like your remodel, minus if they survived, they would possibly be paralyzed

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

One save would be good enough, if it weren't at will. :smallbiggrin:

I'd still say Stunning Fist to trigger it, or allow 2 saves.


and I almost like your remodel, minus if they survived, they would possibly be paralyzed

Honestly? That's a little TO strong...both are basically death effects. I'd allow the attacker to choose whether to kill them or paralyze them, however.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

One save would be good enough, if it weren't at will. :smallbiggrin:

I'd still say Stunning Fist to trigger it, or allow 2 saves.



Honestly? That's a little TO strong...both are basically death effects. I'd allow the attacker to choose whether to kill them or paralyze them, however.

fixed :smalltongue:

and the attacker can choose now

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Looks good to me! Though I'd even allow full-out paralyzed on a failed save with a non-lethal attack. :smallbiggrin:

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

Looks good to me! Though I'd even allow full-out paralyzed on a failed save with a non-lethal attack. :smallbiggrin:

Thats essentially what i did.

And what about the rest of them? I mean yeah, the Save or Die feats were strong, but the others are good too...