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Flob
2010-05-02, 06:45 PM
I can assume that most, if not all of us, have used a mount in our Pen and Paper RPG of choice. Well, now I am looking for assistance in finding one for a D&D 3.5 campaign (Eberron). I am hoping to find rules for riding some sort of bear, because that's just cool. Don't deny it, riding bears are win-tastic. Now, I am playing a psion, but have enough ranks to throw around that I have started to dump ranks into ride. So, how do I go about getting a mount, what is the best (hopefully bear) mount to get around level 6-8, and any other stuff you can tell me?

Here's the stats:
Okay, time to see if I have all the stats right for a Magebred Dire Bear Warbeast:
Magebred template:
+2 Nat. armor (normal)
+4 con. (Chosen)
+2 dex/str (chosen)
-2 Handle Animal (normal)
+2 Nat. armor (chosen; Thick-skinned breed)
Multi-attack (chosen; feat)

Warbeast template:
HD+1
Str +3
Con +3
Wis +2
+10 land speed
+1 listen/spot
-2 on ride check DC's

Soooo... my Magebred Dire Bear Warbeast (which may be named Fluffy) would have stats along the lines of....

HD: 13d8+104 (162.5)

Initiative: +2

Speed: 50 ft.

AC: 22 (-1 size, +2 dex, +11 nat.) Touch 11, Flat footed 20

BAB/grapple: +9/+23 <----Needs corrections please.

Attack: Claw +23 (2d4+13) <----Needs corrections please.

Full attack: 2 claws +23 (2d4+13)/Bite +20 (2d8+6) <----Mabye?

Space/reach: 10 ft./5 ft.

Special attack: Improved grab (rapetastic!)

Special qualities: low-light vision, scent

Saves: Urgh?!? <----I require additional pylons! (help).

Abilities: str 36, dex 15, con 26, int 2, wis 12, cha 10

Skills: Listen +11, Spot +11, Swim +16 <---- Probably needs help.

Feats: Alertness, endurance, run, toughness (might try to get improved toughness instead), weapon focus: claw, and multi attack.

This probably needs a whole lot of correcting. Help?

Flickerdart
2010-05-02, 06:55 PM
It's a DC27 Handle Animal check to rear a Dire Bear, and then a DC20 Handle Animal check to train it for combat. Taking 10, such a check can be accomplished by an unoptimized level 9 commoner (12 ranks, +3 Skill Focus, +1 age, +1 stat). A trained hireling will set you back 3 SP per day, or 63 silver pieces to train it for combat (meaning that it won't break your bank by any means). Rearing it is harder to calculate, since it doesn't say how old an adult bear is, but at 109.5 GP a year, you can easily afford a trainer to work with your pet around the clock. Finding a dire bear cub might be an issue though, but the training won't be.

If you want a non-wealth way of doing this, the Wild Cohort feat gives you what you want. At 7th level, you can have the companion of a 4th level Druid. this lets you take a stock Black Bear, which is considerably less badass than a Dire Bear and is only Medium, meaning that you can't use it as a mount if you're Medium yourself.

Shalist
2010-05-02, 07:06 PM
Don't forget your masterwork tools (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScoobySnacks) for handling animals.

Flickerdart
2010-05-02, 07:08 PM
Right, so we can knock the Commoner down to 7th level, or 5th if he has an apprentice helping. Doesn't matter for anything, since the cost is the same, but still.

Flob
2010-05-02, 07:09 PM
It's a DC27 Handle Animal check to rear a Dire Bear, and then a DC20 Handle Animal check to train it for combat. Taking 10, such a check can be accomplished by an unoptimized level 9 commoner (12 ranks, +3 Skill Focus, +1 age, +1 stat). A trained hireling will set you back 3 SP per day, or 63 silver pieces to train it for combat (meaning that it won't break your bank by any means). Rearing it is harder to calculate, since it doesn't say how old an adult bear is, but at 109.5 GP a year, you can easily afford a trainer to work with your pet around the clock. Finding a dire bear cub might be an issue though, but the training won't be.

If you want a non-wealth way of doing this, the Wild Cohort feat gives you what you want. At 7th level, you can have the companion of a 4th level Druid. this lets you take a stock Black Bear, which is considerably less badass than a Dire Bear and is only Medium, meaning that you can't use it as a mount if you're Medium yourself.

This all seems rather complicated. How much would it cost if I were to get a dire bear mount, ready for the fight? Also, if that's not possible, explain it all, like I'm some idiot who's only been playing D&D for a little over a year and hasn't had a mount before. Because that's who I am.

balistafreak
2010-05-02, 07:17 PM
Obligatory (linked, not posted, for language). (http://www.cold-moon.com/images/Motivators/Equipment/Bear%20Cavalry.jpg)

Flickerdart
2010-05-02, 07:23 PM
MM2 lists the cost of an animal trained for war at 100gp +75gp/HD, or 1000gp for a Dire Bear. It will then cost 6.3 GP to train this bear with the Come, Guard and Heel tricks. Now you can ride this bear.

Zergrusheddie
2010-05-02, 07:29 PM
Yeah, Handle Animal can get silly. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7097263&postcount=38)

Prime32
2010-05-02, 07:30 PM
I put together a basic handbook on mounts (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7414.0).

Flob
2010-05-02, 07:32 PM
MM2 lists the cost of an animal trained for war at 100gp +75gp/HD, or 1000gp for a Dire Bear. It will then cost 6.3 GP to train this bear with the Come, Guard and Heel tricks. Now you can ride this bear.

So, 1006.3 gp for a riding Dire Bear. Do I need to teach it like, attack, or ride (to allow me to ride it, not to have it ride another bear), ect.? Also, what other things would be useful to know? I know my concentration checks might be a little high, but I'm not worried.

Edit: Lets say I have 2,000-2,500 gp TOTAL to spend on my Dire Bear. This includes a saddle, food I don't have to worry about, I plan to let it hunt/eat the corpses of my enemies, training, TEMPLATES, ect. What would you reccomend I get?

tyckspoon
2010-05-02, 07:44 PM
So, 1006.3 gp for a riding Dire Bear. Do I need to teach it like, attack, or ride (to allow me to ride it, not to have it ride another bear), ect.? Also, what other things would be useful to know? I know my concentration checks might be a little high, but I'm not worried.

Edit: Lets say I have 2,000-2,500 gp TOTAL to spend on my Dire Bear. This includes a saddle, food I don't have to worry about, I plan to let it hunt/eat the corpses of my enemies, training, TEMPLATES, ect. What would you reccomend I get?

Do note that the Warbeast prices are quite silly value for money, and don't be surprised if your GM rejects giving you a buffed Dire Bear for only around 1000 gp. Druids don't get to select them until level 13.

"Attack what I point at" and "tolerate me riding you" are usually included in the combat-mount training package. You shouldn't need any extra training applied just to get basic combat use from any warbeast mount.

Flickerdart
2010-05-02, 07:45 PM
After that money is spent, your bear will know everything it needs to be ridden and used in battle. It's a CR7 creature with more HP than you, so you really don't need to do anything to it at this level. An Exotic Military Saddle will cost you 60GP, and gives you a +2 to Ride checks to stay in the saddle. A Chain shirt barding will cost you 400gp and add +4 AC to your bear.

Flob
2010-05-02, 07:51 PM
Next question than. Items for my mighty riding Dire Bear? Also, how many tricks will it get? What tricks should I teach it that would be useful/HILARIOUS!!!?. Any other useful comments?

Flickerdart
2010-05-02, 07:55 PM
It will know the Attack, Down, Stay, Come, Guard and Heel tricks. You could teach it to Defend (2.1 GP and an extra week) or Track, Fetch and Seek (3 weeks, 6.3 gp for the lot) to task your bear to take a scent, follow it and bring you back the target. With a +23 to Grapple, the bear will be able to hold on to his catch pretty well.

Flob
2010-05-02, 08:00 PM
It will know the Attack, Down, Stay, Come, Guard and Heel tricks. You could teach it to Defend (2.1 GP and an extra week) or Track, Fetch and Seek (3 weeks, 6.3 gp for the lot) to task your bear to take a scent, follow it and bring you back the target. With a +23 to Grapple, the bear will be able to hold on to his catch pretty well.

Could I teach it both skill-sets? So it would be able to attack, "down", stay, come, guard, heel, defend, track, fetch, and seek? Also, what is the difference between guard and defend? More also, could I stick bracers of armor on my bear? Finally, would I be able to be hurt by people with melee weapons whilst upon my bear?

Flickerdart
2010-05-02, 08:03 PM
Bracers of armour wouldn't stack with the barding, and would be vastly more expensive. You would be vulnerable to melee attack, yes, though they'd have to get through the bear's reach to do so.

The bear can only learn six tricks. So you could get away with Attack, Down, Come, Stay, Track and Fetch.

Guard is for a place, and Defend is for a person.

Flob
2010-05-02, 08:11 PM
Bracers of armour wouldn't stack with the barding, and would be vastly more expensive. You would be vulnerable to melee attack, yes, though they'd have to get through the bear's reach to do so.

The bear can only learn six tricks. So you could get away with Attack, Down, Come, Stay, Track and Fetch.

Guard is for a place, and Defend is for a person.

Why wouldn't it stack with barding? The Bracers of Armor are + to deflection, and the barding is + to Armor, correct? Also, I just did some math and, uh... Does a Dire Bear have a light load of 1,836 pounds? Medium load up to 3,672 pounds, and heavy up to 5,520 pounds? My DM better not find out about the loads until AFTER I purchase the bear...

Greenish
2010-05-02, 08:15 PM
Why wouldn't it stack with barding? The Bracers of Armor are + to deflection, and the barding is + to Armor, correct?Both are armor bonuses.

[Edit]: And your loads check out.

Flickerdart
2010-05-02, 08:17 PM
Why wouldn't it stack with barding? The Bracers of Armor are + to deflection, and the barding is + to Armor, correct? Also, I just did some math and, uh... Does a Dire Bear have a light load of 1,836 pounds? Medium load up to 3,672 pounds, and heavy up to 5,520 pounds? My DM better not find out about the loads until AFTER I purchase the bear...
Yes, bears can carry a lot. It's a separate trick (Work) to make it push/pull medium or heavy loads.

aivanther
2010-05-02, 08:18 PM
Why wouldn't it stack with barding? The Bracers of Armor are + to deflection, and the barding is + to Armor, correct? Also, I just did some math and, uh... Does a Dire Bear have a light load of 1,836 pounds? Medium load up to 3,672 pounds, and heavy up to 5,520 pounds? My DM better not find out about the loads until AFTER I purchase the bear...

Bracers of Armor are just an Armor bonus, so it doesn't stack with barding. Ring of protection is deflection I believe...and I would pay real money to see a bear wearing a ring...

And yeah, my lvl 1 druid's first purchase was saddlepacks...mounts/animal companions are useful for carrying de loot.

Flob
2010-05-02, 08:20 PM
Both are armor bonuses.

You are correct my fine sir... I must argue this with my DM next time we meet. Reading it in the DM guide, it didn't sound like an armor bonus, or maybe I'm just tired and confused.

@Aivanther: How much do they cost, how much can they hold, ect.

Also, do I have to make a Handle Animal check every time I want my bear to do something?

Flickerdart
2010-05-02, 08:21 PM
Bracers of Armor are just an Armor bonus, so it doesn't stack with barding. Ring of protection is deflection I believe...and I would pay real money to see a bear wearing a ring...
Nose ring of protection? MIC has rules for re-slotting items, and nose isn't even a slot, so a lenient DM could let it do this free of charge.

Edit: yes, it's a DC10 check to have an animal perform a trick (+2 to the DC if it's injured). The check is a move action. It's not exactly difficult to make.

Greenish
2010-05-02, 08:25 PM
Nose ring of protection? MIC has rules for re-slotting items, and nose isn't even a slot, so a lenient DM could let it do this free of charge.Animal body slots (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031125a), as WotC envisions them.

Flob
2010-05-02, 08:26 PM
Nose ring of protection? MIC has rules for re-slotting items, and nose isn't even a slot, so a lenient DM could let it do this free of charge.

Edit: yes, it's a DC10 check to have an animal perform a trick (+2 to the DC if it's injured). The check is a move action. It's not exactly difficult to make.

Sorry, I wasn't clear there. I mean, like, to make it go to "X" or attack "Y" or grapple "Z"? Also, price check on saddle-bags for a large bear?

Flickerdart
2010-05-02, 08:29 PM
Sorry, I wasn't clear there. I mean, like, to make it go to "X" or attack "Y" or grapple "Z"? Also, price check on saddle-bags for a large bear?
Saddlebags are 4gp.

Yes, it's a move action to order it to do those things, because those are all tricks. Once it's attacking I don't believe you need to command it again unless you want it to stop.

Greenish
2010-05-02, 08:29 PM
Sorry, I wasn't clear there. I mean, like, to make it go to "X" or attack "Y" or grapple "Z"?"Attack" is a trick. Grapple might be what bears normally do while fighting.
Also, price check on saddle-bags for a large bear?4 gp.

Flob
2010-05-02, 08:35 PM
Last thing; is there a feat that gives me either bonus's to BOTH handle animal and ride, or one that makes those class skills?

Flickerdart
2010-05-02, 08:39 PM
Last thing; is there a feat that gives me either bonus's to BOTH handle animal and ride, or one that makes those class skills?
Animal Affinity gives you +2 to both, but it sucks.

Flob
2010-05-02, 08:42 PM
Animal Affinity gives you +2 to both, but it sucks.

Better than skill-focussing both.... WHen do I actually need to use ride checks anyway? And what items can I use to boost both skills?

aivanther
2010-05-02, 09:17 PM
To attack and have your mount attack I believe you need to make a ride check. You can avoid damage using a ride check with mounted combat, I believe. Plus, you need some ride skill just to pick up the really fun mounted feats.

And, from: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm
To create a magic item:
Type: Skill bonus (competence) Cost: Bonus squared 100 gp

So, a +10 ring of riding would cost you 10,000

Flob
2010-05-03, 01:20 PM
To attack and have your mount attack I believe you need to make a ride check. You can avoid damage using a ride check with mounted combat, I believe. Plus, you need some ride skill just to pick up the really fun mounted feats.

And, from: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm
To create a magic item:
Type: Skill bonus (competence) Cost: Bonus squared 100 gp

So, a +10 ring of riding would cost you 10,000

Or... If I have the party Artificer do it for me, with the -25% to cost, that would be... 3750 gold? That's completely reasonable. Like, 100% reasonable.

The Shadowmind
2010-05-03, 01:46 PM
Templates you could add:
Horrid, adds to a Dire animal, increases natural armor, gives acid immunity and adds acid to the attack, and gives +4 con, and improved natural attacks (all), for in exchange for a penalty on handle animal checks.

Magebred, for twice is the cost you get: further increased natural armor, a reduction in the handle animal/ride DC's, an option of the creature being faster, more armor bonus, or a tracking bonuses. That not all, then you increase the physical ability scores of the create in a (+4/+2/+2) fashion divided as you choose, and another feat of your choice from the list.

Flob
2010-05-03, 01:49 PM
Templates you could add:
Horrid, adds to a Dire animal, increases natural armor, gives acid immunity and adds acid to the attack, and gives +4 con, and improved natural attacks (all), for in exchange for a penalty on handle animal checks.

Magebred, for twice is the cost you get: further increased natural armor, a reduction in the handle animal/ride DC's, an option of the creature being faster, more armor bonus, or a tracking bonuses. That not all, then you increase the physical ability scores of the create in a (+4/+2/+2) fashion divided as you choose, and another feat of your choice from the list.

Magebred, I believe it was mentioned earlier. How much does it reduce the handle animal/ride DC's, since it might be more worth it to get a Magebred Dire Bear than to have expensive +Handle animal/ride items made?

The Shadowmind
2010-05-03, 01:55 PM
It is only a -2 effect, which if you need a +10 skill item, would only need a +8 for the same effect, reducing the cost from 10,000 to 6,400, saving 3,600gp in the process, but gets much less so the less of a +X skill item you need.

Flob
2010-05-03, 01:58 PM
It is only a -2 effect, which if you need a +10 skill item, would only need a +8 for the same effect, reducing the cost from 10,000 to 6,400, saving 3,600gp in the process, but gets much less so the less of a +X skill item you need.

Okay, so I'm poor with mount calculations. How much would the training cost, how much would the mount itself cost, and yeah... So, let's see, the item would than be worth 6,400. Have the party Artificer make it for 3,200-25% for the reduced gold cost, making it.... 2,400 gold. This is looking REALLY reasonable to do....

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2010-05-03, 02:14 PM
I prefer dragons to bears. Call me old fashioned. Or maybe I just prefer having conversations with my spell-casting, colossal mount. Hmmm :smalleek:

Flob
2010-05-03, 02:21 PM
I prefer dragons to bears. Call me old fashioned. Or maybe I just prefer having conversations with my spell-casting, colossal mount. Hmmm :smalleek:

Yes, but this is for a character that will be between level 6-9. Also, this is Eberron, where I don't think people really like dragons...

The Shadowmind
2010-05-03, 02:24 PM
Cost for the Dire Bear
Warbeast template, +1 HD. 100+(75x13)=1075
Magebred template, cost x2= 2150.
DC to Rear, 20(Base)+13(HD)-2(Magebred)=31 DC 1 year
DC to Train, 25(Base)+13(HD)-2(Magebred)=36 DC, 2 months.

Flob
2010-05-03, 02:26 PM
Cost for the Dire Bear
Warbeast template, +1 HD. 100+(75x13)=1075
Magebred template, cost x2= 2150.
DC to Rear, 20(Base)+13(HD)-2(Magebred)=31 DC 1 year
DC to Train, 25(Base)+13(HD)-2(Magebred)=36 DC, 2 months.

And how much would it cost to get it reared and trained for me, or is it already included?

Flickerdart
2010-05-03, 02:30 PM
The cost is included in the Warbeast template.

Flob
2010-05-03, 02:34 PM
The cost is included in the Warbeast template.

Thanks. Okay, math time! 2,150 gp + 2,400 for ride + 2,400 for handle animal= 6,950 gp for a ready to go freakin' tank mount evil monstrosity rape-monster... of doom. I might be able to convince my group to help me buy this on the basis that it could tank for us NO PROBLEM.

Flob
2010-05-03, 03:00 PM
Okay, time to see if I have all the stats right for a Magebred Dire Bear Warbeast:
Magebred template:
+2 Nat. armor (normal)
+4 con. (Chosen)
+2 dex/str (chosen)
-2 Handle Animal (normal)
+2 Nat. armor (chosen; Thick-skinned breed)
Multi-attack (chosen; feat)

Warbeast template:
HD+1
Str +3
Con +3
Wis +2
+10 land speed
+1 listen/spot
-2 on ride check DC's

Soooo... my Magebred Dire Bear Warbeast (which may be named Fluffy) would have stats along the lines of....

HD: 13d8+104 (162.5)

Initiative: +2

Speed: 50 ft.

AC: 22 (-1 size, +2 dex, +11 nat.) Touch 11, Flat footed 20

BAB/grapple: +9/+23

Attack: Claw +23 (2d4+13)

Full attack: 2 claws +23 (2d4+13)/Bite +20 (2d8+6)

Space/reach: 10 ft./5 ft.

Special attack: Improved grab (rapetastic!)

Special qualities: low-light vision, scent

Saves: Fort: 16 Will: 9 Ref: 11

Abilities: str 36, dex 15, con 26, int 2, wis 12, cha 10

Skills: Listen +11, Spot +11, Swim +16 <---- Probably needs help.

Feats: Alertness, endurance, run, toughness (might try to get improved toughness instead), weapon focus: claw, and multi attack.

This probably needs a whole lot of correcting. Help?

Flob
2010-05-03, 07:29 PM
Yes, I am bumping this. Yes, you can be mad at me. But, I can't figure out the saves, BAB, ect. due to the extra hit die I got on the bear. Help?

Glimbur
2010-05-03, 07:37 PM
Dire animals get all good saves, d8 hit dice, and 3/4 BAB. It will get one skill point, because its int is very low but there's a minimum of one.

For extra bonus points, get it Awakened later and have it take levels in Primeval from Frostburn. This will give you a bear that turns into a dinosaur.

Flob
2010-05-03, 07:50 PM
Dire animals get all good saves, d8 hit dice, and 3/4 BAB. It will get one skill point, because its int is very low but there's a minimum of one.

For extra bonus points, get it Awakened later and have it take levels in Primeval from Frostburn. This will give you a bear that turns into a dinosaur.

I've fixed it, but where is that one extra skill point coming from?

NineThePuma
2010-05-06, 02:47 AM
Skill point is from extra hit dice.