Lord of Syntax

2010-05-05, 12:26 AM

What sort of stats should I use for a shotgun?

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Lord of Syntax

2010-05-05, 12:26 AM

What sort of stats should I use for a shotgun?

InkEyes

2010-05-05, 12:40 AM

Well, you could use the d20 modern rules (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/modern/smack/weapons.html) for shotguns... if you had an irrational hatred of them and never wanted your players to use them over a longbow or greatsword.

There's a lot of fixes floating around the 'net though. A minute of googling brought up this (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?action=printpage;topic=992.0) page.

There's a lot of fixes floating around the 'net though. A minute of googling brought up this (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?action=printpage;topic=992.0) page.

WildPyre

2010-05-05, 12:45 AM

Depends on what tech level you're wanting to use...

Are firearms widely available and reliable in your game?

Are they clunky and hard to reload?

How many shots does it hold?

Scatter shot or slug?

There are a lot of questions you have to take into consideration.

Are firearms widely available and reliable in your game?

Are they clunky and hard to reload?

How many shots does it hold?

Scatter shot or slug?

There are a lot of questions you have to take into consideration.

ghashxx

2010-05-05, 12:55 AM

That all depends, how powerful do you want it? If this is the only shotgun in the world then it might be an artifact, in which case it should be pretty darn powerful. Also, do you allow for different types of ammo? What gauge is it going to be?

If I put a shotgun into my game: 12 gauge pump with magazine 8 + 1 in the chamber for 9 shells at once. Full round action to reload 4 shells, pick up the exotic weapon prof and you get 4 shells for a move action.

The ammunition is where it gets really tricky. There's so many different types, even if you just stick with straight up buckshot there's at least 9 different types ranging from 5-21 pellets per oz. So with 00 buck, that's 8 pellets/oz. So let's just say 8dsomething, or maybe 4dsomething depending on how powerful you want it to be.

Then if you have flechette rounds, you can increase the damage die by one (8d2 to 8d4 for example) and throw in some kind of either armor bypass and/or anti-DR thingamabob. Flechette rounds are really really brutal. Also, you've got the use of slugs, and rubber bullets too.

With a shell I'd say a base 100' range is good, while with a slug it's more like 200' (this isn't at all ridiculous when you think about a football field). And then comes the question about hitting a target. It's a ridiculously fast moving projectile that, especially with a shell, is going to be nigh impossible to dodge, and with the flechette or slugs will punch right through armor. So just say screw it and go with AC but a large plus to hit (+5), or a touch ac with flechette or slugs and a flat footed AC for flechette or buckshot?

That's a tough question to answer, and in the end it all depends on how powerful you want the gun.

If I put a shotgun into my game: 12 gauge pump with magazine 8 + 1 in the chamber for 9 shells at once. Full round action to reload 4 shells, pick up the exotic weapon prof and you get 4 shells for a move action.

The ammunition is where it gets really tricky. There's so many different types, even if you just stick with straight up buckshot there's at least 9 different types ranging from 5-21 pellets per oz. So with 00 buck, that's 8 pellets/oz. So let's just say 8dsomething, or maybe 4dsomething depending on how powerful you want it to be.

Then if you have flechette rounds, you can increase the damage die by one (8d2 to 8d4 for example) and throw in some kind of either armor bypass and/or anti-DR thingamabob. Flechette rounds are really really brutal. Also, you've got the use of slugs, and rubber bullets too.

With a shell I'd say a base 100' range is good, while with a slug it's more like 200' (this isn't at all ridiculous when you think about a football field). And then comes the question about hitting a target. It's a ridiculously fast moving projectile that, especially with a shell, is going to be nigh impossible to dodge, and with the flechette or slugs will punch right through armor. So just say screw it and go with AC but a large plus to hit (+5), or a touch ac with flechette or slugs and a flat footed AC for flechette or buckshot?

That's a tough question to answer, and in the end it all depends on how powerful you want the gun.

Lord of Syntax

2010-05-05, 12:57 AM

I think the gun tech is at about 1920's levels.

They are not clunky.

They hold 5 shots, and then you have to reload. (These are single barrel)

I don't care Shatter/Slug.

12 gauge.

They are not clunky.

They hold 5 shots, and then you have to reload. (These are single barrel)

I don't care Shatter/Slug.

12 gauge.

Deth Muncher

2010-05-05, 01:23 AM

What sort of stats should I use for a shotgun?

Aha! Finally! There's a link in my signature to a guide I wrote up on firearms using what was presented in Dragon Magazine. Look for "Blunderbuss." PM me with questions.

Aha! Finally! There's a link in my signature to a guide I wrote up on firearms using what was presented in Dragon Magazine. Look for "Blunderbuss." PM me with questions.

Saintheart

2010-05-05, 01:24 AM

And they get 3d6 Awesome damage. :smallbiggrin:

taltamir

2010-05-05, 01:45 AM

And they get 3d6 Awesome damage. :smallbiggrin:

Beware the monsters with awesome resistance.

Beware the monsters with awesome resistance.

Defiant

2010-05-05, 08:35 AM

Here's how I did the stats for my shotgun in my "current" campaign that I'm DMing. Now I know this is massively convoluted, but I didn't actually plan for the shotgun to see much use. More of a throwaway idea.

Point-blank range (5 feet away): Does d12 damage

10 feet away: d10 damage

15 feet away: d8 damage

20 feet away: d6 damage

25 feet away: d4 damage

30 feet away: d2 damage

35+ feet away: 1 damage

It fires 5 slugs.

If you succeed on your attack roll by matching the AC or exceeding it by 1, then you hit with 1 slug.

If you succeed on your attack roll by 2 to 3, then you have an 80% chance of hitting with 1 slug, 20% chance of hitting with 2.

If you succeed on your attack roll by 4 to 5, then you have a 60% chance of hitting with 1 slug, 20% chance of hitting with 2, and 20% chance of hitting with 3.

If you succeed on your attack roll by 6 to 7, then you have a 40% chance of hitting with 1 slug, 20% chance of hitting with 2, 20% chance of hitting with 3, and 20% chance of hitting with 4.

If you succeed on your attack roll by more than 8, then you have a 20% chance of hitting with 1 slug, 20% chance of hitting with 2, 20% chance of hitting with 3, 20% chance of hitting with 4, and 20% chance of hitting with 5.

Deliciously convoluted! :smallbiggrin:

Point-blank range (5 feet away): Does d12 damage

10 feet away: d10 damage

15 feet away: d8 damage

20 feet away: d6 damage

25 feet away: d4 damage

30 feet away: d2 damage

35+ feet away: 1 damage

It fires 5 slugs.

If you succeed on your attack roll by matching the AC or exceeding it by 1, then you hit with 1 slug.

If you succeed on your attack roll by 2 to 3, then you have an 80% chance of hitting with 1 slug, 20% chance of hitting with 2.

If you succeed on your attack roll by 4 to 5, then you have a 60% chance of hitting with 1 slug, 20% chance of hitting with 2, and 20% chance of hitting with 3.

If you succeed on your attack roll by 6 to 7, then you have a 40% chance of hitting with 1 slug, 20% chance of hitting with 2, 20% chance of hitting with 3, and 20% chance of hitting with 4.

If you succeed on your attack roll by more than 8, then you have a 20% chance of hitting with 1 slug, 20% chance of hitting with 2, 20% chance of hitting with 3, 20% chance of hitting with 4, and 20% chance of hitting with 5.

Deliciously convoluted! :smallbiggrin:

Prodan

2010-05-05, 08:39 AM

I think the gun tech is at about 1920's levels.

They are not clunky.

They hold 5 shots, and then you have to reload. (These are single barrel)

I don't care Shatter/Slug.

12 gauge.

Options include double barrel shotguns, pump action shotguns, and semiautomatic shotguns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Auto-5)

Point-blank range (5 feet away): Does d12 damage

10 feet away: d10 damage

15 feet away: d8 damage

20 feet away: d6 damage

25 feet away: d4 damage

30 feet away: d2 damage

35+ feet away: 1 damage

I'm fairly sure real life shotguns can be lethal up to at least 50 feet.

They are not clunky.

They hold 5 shots, and then you have to reload. (These are single barrel)

I don't care Shatter/Slug.

12 gauge.

Options include double barrel shotguns, pump action shotguns, and semiautomatic shotguns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Auto-5)

Point-blank range (5 feet away): Does d12 damage

10 feet away: d10 damage

15 feet away: d8 damage

20 feet away: d6 damage

25 feet away: d4 damage

30 feet away: d2 damage

35+ feet away: 1 damage

I'm fairly sure real life shotguns can be lethal up to at least 50 feet.

ghashxx

2010-05-05, 09:41 AM

Here's how I did the stats for my shotgun in my "current" campaign that I'm DMing. Now I know this is massively convoluted, but I didn't actually plan for the shotgun to see much use. More of a throwaway idea.

Point-blank range (5 feet away): Does d12 damage

10 feet away: d10 damage

15 feet away: d8 damage

20 feet away: d6 damage

25 feet away: d4 damage

30 feet away: d2 damage

35+ feet away: 1 damage:

Ummmmm really? It's only going to do as much as a shuriken at 30' away? I guess if you're using an unmodded Doom 3 or Halo shotgun then sure, but those are the worst. If you've ever played Army of Two, they have a fairly good representation of a shotgun, and that's what you should base it on. Against a basic dude wearing body armor that's not behind cover it will kill with 2-3 shots at 50 yards away = 150'. That's what you should be basing things on.

If you're using slugs, then that's a whole other story. That's what people use for hunting when rifles aren't allowed, and then you're talking about a range easily exceeding 500 yards, though in terms of accuracy (since it's not a rifle) about an effective range of at least 100 yards, leading to 300'.

So yeah, damage set up here I'll have to completely disagree with in every way. Though I like the setup for hitting with multiple pellets, that's nifty. Maybe fiddle a bit depending on the type of shell, but definitely a good basic set up.

Point-blank range (5 feet away): Does d12 damage

10 feet away: d10 damage

15 feet away: d8 damage

20 feet away: d6 damage

25 feet away: d4 damage

30 feet away: d2 damage

35+ feet away: 1 damage:

Ummmmm really? It's only going to do as much as a shuriken at 30' away? I guess if you're using an unmodded Doom 3 or Halo shotgun then sure, but those are the worst. If you've ever played Army of Two, they have a fairly good representation of a shotgun, and that's what you should base it on. Against a basic dude wearing body armor that's not behind cover it will kill with 2-3 shots at 50 yards away = 150'. That's what you should be basing things on.

If you're using slugs, then that's a whole other story. That's what people use for hunting when rifles aren't allowed, and then you're talking about a range easily exceeding 500 yards, though in terms of accuracy (since it's not a rifle) about an effective range of at least 100 yards, leading to 300'.

So yeah, damage set up here I'll have to completely disagree with in every way. Though I like the setup for hitting with multiple pellets, that's nifty. Maybe fiddle a bit depending on the type of shell, but definitely a good basic set up.

druid91

2010-05-05, 09:44 AM

There are rules for a shotgun in the dm's guide, right next to the rules for laser guns and flamethrowers.

okpokalypse

2010-05-05, 10:18 AM

In an Epic Campaign a Psychic Warrior with various smithing abilities and an 18 Int wanted to make one, so we had him draw it up. Play-wise it functioned well, and wasn't very overpowered...

Shotgun (5 Shell Capacity; Full Round Reload)

Damage: 2d10 (Piercing) or 1d6 (Bludgeoning)

Critical: 20/x3 (Piercing) or 20/x2 (Bludgeoning)

Range Increment: 10' (Piercing) or None

Area of Effect: 30 Degree Cone or None

Special: When used as a Firearm, Targets take -1 Damage in addition to the wielder being at -2 to hit per Range Increment. Targets that block LoS/LoE from the Weapon prevent damage behind them to others in the weapon's range.

Feats like Rapid Shot and Rapid Reload apply when used as a Firearm so that, at the high end, the Wielder could empty the Shotgun in a round and reload as a move-action. Obviously, the Bludgeoning numbers are for using the butt-end as a melee weapon. We contemplated making it a double weapon, but that just complicated things.

In terms of the gameplay, he would wield that until someone closed to melee and then it went away. A Large 2H Weapon w/ Strength Bonus & Buffs was always more effective in terms of Damage / Round dealt that way. The nice part about the shotgun was getting 3 bodies at like 30' away. They'd be taking 5 Shots of 2d10-2 (assuming hits) each. Once a guy was adjacent to you, the AoE "spray" effect was gone since it blocked all other targets.

It was later enchanted to have +2 Flaming Burst so that those hit also suffered d6 Fire Damage (more on Crit) along with the Piercing Damage. The typical 3-target spray would (with all hits) do on average:

2d10+2 -2 (Range) + d6 = 14.5 * 3 (Targets) = 43.5 * 5 (Attacks) = 217.5 Damage across 3 Targets for 72.5 Per Target.

As we all well know, 72.5 Damage in a Full Round to a target really isn't a whole lot all told.

Shotgun (5 Shell Capacity; Full Round Reload)

Damage: 2d10 (Piercing) or 1d6 (Bludgeoning)

Critical: 20/x3 (Piercing) or 20/x2 (Bludgeoning)

Range Increment: 10' (Piercing) or None

Area of Effect: 30 Degree Cone or None

Special: When used as a Firearm, Targets take -1 Damage in addition to the wielder being at -2 to hit per Range Increment. Targets that block LoS/LoE from the Weapon prevent damage behind them to others in the weapon's range.

Feats like Rapid Shot and Rapid Reload apply when used as a Firearm so that, at the high end, the Wielder could empty the Shotgun in a round and reload as a move-action. Obviously, the Bludgeoning numbers are for using the butt-end as a melee weapon. We contemplated making it a double weapon, but that just complicated things.

In terms of the gameplay, he would wield that until someone closed to melee and then it went away. A Large 2H Weapon w/ Strength Bonus & Buffs was always more effective in terms of Damage / Round dealt that way. The nice part about the shotgun was getting 3 bodies at like 30' away. They'd be taking 5 Shots of 2d10-2 (assuming hits) each. Once a guy was adjacent to you, the AoE "spray" effect was gone since it blocked all other targets.

It was later enchanted to have +2 Flaming Burst so that those hit also suffered d6 Fire Damage (more on Crit) along with the Piercing Damage. The typical 3-target spray would (with all hits) do on average:

2d10+2 -2 (Range) + d6 = 14.5 * 3 (Targets) = 43.5 * 5 (Attacks) = 217.5 Damage across 3 Targets for 72.5 Per Target.

As we all well know, 72.5 Damage in a Full Round to a target really isn't a whole lot all told.

Amiel

2010-05-05, 10:23 AM

Brewmeister's rifle; modeled on the Baker rifle

These longrifle arms were the creation of a dwarven master brewer and metalsmith, who despaired of his kindred being slaughtered in great underground wars. These rifles are exceptionally deadly at medium range; with accuracy worsening the further the opponent is; this is resolved as a -2 penalty at a distance beyond 30 feet.

Hidden within the underside of the rifle is a short sword, that, in the event of bullets running out can be wielded to deal slashing death to any enemies.

These rifles hold up to 6 bullets at a time, and must be manually reloaded each time a bullet is spent.

The Brewmeister longrifle deals damage to the value of 2d8 and criticals are forced on a 20; the damage type is ballistic and thus pierces armour and damage reduction as adamantine.

You could make use of the above; with shotguns, depending on how strict you are with physics, have bullets spray the further the range/distance is. You could mention that the damage is dispersed over a 10 foot radius for example*

You may want to increase the damage value.

*Disclaimer: made up.

These longrifle arms were the creation of a dwarven master brewer and metalsmith, who despaired of his kindred being slaughtered in great underground wars. These rifles are exceptionally deadly at medium range; with accuracy worsening the further the opponent is; this is resolved as a -2 penalty at a distance beyond 30 feet.

Hidden within the underside of the rifle is a short sword, that, in the event of bullets running out can be wielded to deal slashing death to any enemies.

These rifles hold up to 6 bullets at a time, and must be manually reloaded each time a bullet is spent.

The Brewmeister longrifle deals damage to the value of 2d8 and criticals are forced on a 20; the damage type is ballistic and thus pierces armour and damage reduction as adamantine.

You could make use of the above; with shotguns, depending on how strict you are with physics, have bullets spray the further the range/distance is. You could mention that the damage is dispersed over a 10 foot radius for example*

You may want to increase the damage value.

*Disclaimer: made up.

Zeta Kai

2010-05-05, 11:11 AM

Here are many, many modern weapons (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2858000#post2858000) that I adapted to the D20 ruleset. I did this for my Resident Evil D20 project, & although I did look at the D20 Modern weapons, my versions are significantly different. Of those weapons, there are ~13 shotguns, but many of them are very similar.

Ravens_cry

2010-05-05, 12:34 PM

One thing is sure, it must cost 500 gold.

Jeff240sx

2010-05-05, 12:58 PM

Geez... for a non artifact, you all are doing some serious things / damage with shotguns.

Buckshot

First - shotguns don't spread like you crazies are statting up.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/txinvestigator/Gun%20Stuff/020105moss5002.jpg

That's buckshot at 15 yards - 45'. It's a 5"x5" spread.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/txinvestigator/Gun%20Stuff/020105moss500.jpg

10' and 20' are either completely centered, or a small 4"x4" spread.

Not my pics - found some on policenet.

At 75 yards a 00 buck pellet is only traveling at about 830 f/s and has only about 85 ft lb of kinetic energy. It's like getting punched by a weaker-than-average person at that distance. Karate experts hit 120 ft/lbs...

"Ok. I don't want to use Buckshot, 5"x5" isn't enough spread."

Birdshot

Sure thing. http://www.chuckhawks.com/where_pattern_today.htm

That's birdshot, and 50cm is ~20", for a total spread of 40", or just over 3-feet.

That's with an open bore [read: d&d style] barrel, at 20m or about 65'.

The odds of getting more than one enemy are very slight, unless you are pulling off two glancing-shots by firing between two lined-up enemies. Otherwise, that 5-foot square is getting peppered with shot, and that's about it.

"How about a deer slug?"

Deer slugs

Well, there's some variation in that, too.

The standard deer slug, and the one you'd shoot in a normal d&d game is 2,300+ ft/lbs at the muzzle, a phenomenally lethal number. That drops to ~800ft/lbs at 100yards. Still enough to kill a person, but perhaps not anything with natural armor or thick hide. Not good enough ballistics.

"What's the variation?"

There's saboted slugs, which essentially turn a shotgun with rifling into a ... rifle.

New rounds can have impressive numbers like 3,100 ft/lbs at the muzzle, and a flesh-rending 2,300ft/lbs at 100yards.

"What's the TL;DR"

Birdshot won't spray like you think it does. Hell, you probably would never hit two people with birdshot unless they were the British in 1780.

Buckshot isn't lethal at range.

Deer slugs are like the muskets of old. 1 heavy and blunt projectile, bad flight characteristics. New slugs are like rifles, but getting them into a d&d setting requires engineers and precision.

"Knowing this, how would you stat up a Shotgun?"

Well, really, the round that is fired is what makes the difference. Otherwise, it's a tube and a trigger.

Shot

Range 75'. Damage 2d4. Ranged touch attack, no critical. Treat critical misses the same as a thrown weapon (1d8 for the square actually shot).

Buckshot

Range 50'. Damage 2d6. Each additional range increment, 20% miss chance, reduce the size of damage die by 1.

Ranged attack, critical threat: 19-20 x2. Same critical miss treatment.

Standard Slug

Range 50'. Damage 2d8. Each additional range increment, 30% miss chance, reduce the size of damage die by 1.

Ranged attack, critical threat: 20 x3. No critical miss treatment (unless you use it for bows).

Sabot Slug

Range 75'. Damage 2d10. Normal range increments apply.

Ranged attack, critical threat: 20 x3. No critical miss treatment (unless you use it for bows).

That's just imo how I'd treat a shotgun.

Buckshot

First - shotguns don't spread like you crazies are statting up.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/txinvestigator/Gun%20Stuff/020105moss5002.jpg

That's buckshot at 15 yards - 45'. It's a 5"x5" spread.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/txinvestigator/Gun%20Stuff/020105moss500.jpg

10' and 20' are either completely centered, or a small 4"x4" spread.

Not my pics - found some on policenet.

At 75 yards a 00 buck pellet is only traveling at about 830 f/s and has only about 85 ft lb of kinetic energy. It's like getting punched by a weaker-than-average person at that distance. Karate experts hit 120 ft/lbs...

"Ok. I don't want to use Buckshot, 5"x5" isn't enough spread."

Birdshot

Sure thing. http://www.chuckhawks.com/where_pattern_today.htm

That's birdshot, and 50cm is ~20", for a total spread of 40", or just over 3-feet.

That's with an open bore [read: d&d style] barrel, at 20m or about 65'.

The odds of getting more than one enemy are very slight, unless you are pulling off two glancing-shots by firing between two lined-up enemies. Otherwise, that 5-foot square is getting peppered with shot, and that's about it.

"How about a deer slug?"

Deer slugs

Well, there's some variation in that, too.

The standard deer slug, and the one you'd shoot in a normal d&d game is 2,300+ ft/lbs at the muzzle, a phenomenally lethal number. That drops to ~800ft/lbs at 100yards. Still enough to kill a person, but perhaps not anything with natural armor or thick hide. Not good enough ballistics.

"What's the variation?"

There's saboted slugs, which essentially turn a shotgun with rifling into a ... rifle.

New rounds can have impressive numbers like 3,100 ft/lbs at the muzzle, and a flesh-rending 2,300ft/lbs at 100yards.

"What's the TL;DR"

Birdshot won't spray like you think it does. Hell, you probably would never hit two people with birdshot unless they were the British in 1780.

Buckshot isn't lethal at range.

Deer slugs are like the muskets of old. 1 heavy and blunt projectile, bad flight characteristics. New slugs are like rifles, but getting them into a d&d setting requires engineers and precision.

"Knowing this, how would you stat up a Shotgun?"

Well, really, the round that is fired is what makes the difference. Otherwise, it's a tube and a trigger.

Shot

Range 75'. Damage 2d4. Ranged touch attack, no critical. Treat critical misses the same as a thrown weapon (1d8 for the square actually shot).

Buckshot

Range 50'. Damage 2d6. Each additional range increment, 20% miss chance, reduce the size of damage die by 1.

Ranged attack, critical threat: 19-20 x2. Same critical miss treatment.

Standard Slug

Range 50'. Damage 2d8. Each additional range increment, 30% miss chance, reduce the size of damage die by 1.

Ranged attack, critical threat: 20 x3. No critical miss treatment (unless you use it for bows).

Sabot Slug

Range 75'. Damage 2d10. Normal range increments apply.

Ranged attack, critical threat: 20 x3. No critical miss treatment (unless you use it for bows).

That's just imo how I'd treat a shotgun.

wumpus

2010-05-08, 07:44 PM

Geez... for a non artifact, you all are doing some serious things / damage with shotguns.

Sabot Slug

Range 75'. Damage 2d10. Normal range increments apply.

Ranged attack, critical threat: 20 x3. No critical miss treatment (unless you use it for bows).

That's just imo how I'd treat a shotgun.

Pretty much all these values 2d4-2d10 insta-kill 1st level commoners and 2d6 and above insta-kill 1st level warriors. Since almost everyone has heard of at least one normal human taking a "2d4 birdshot" in the face (this might not be as far fetched as it seemed. Since he required critical non-medieval care, he might have just be reduced to somewhere between 0 and -10), I'd make the damage just one die, but will ignore even DR/-: they simply penetrate vital organs and there isn't much you can do to ignore it.

This keeps the damage in the "one or two" shots to kill a normal human, but still makes it scary to higher level characters. I wouldn't want it in my campaign, because if you let a player near basic rule breaking item (like ignore DR/-), they will find a way to break the game with it.

Sabot Slug

Range 75'. Damage 2d10. Normal range increments apply.

Ranged attack, critical threat: 20 x3. No critical miss treatment (unless you use it for bows).

That's just imo how I'd treat a shotgun.

Pretty much all these values 2d4-2d10 insta-kill 1st level commoners and 2d6 and above insta-kill 1st level warriors. Since almost everyone has heard of at least one normal human taking a "2d4 birdshot" in the face (this might not be as far fetched as it seemed. Since he required critical non-medieval care, he might have just be reduced to somewhere between 0 and -10), I'd make the damage just one die, but will ignore even DR/-: they simply penetrate vital organs and there isn't much you can do to ignore it.

This keeps the damage in the "one or two" shots to kill a normal human, but still makes it scary to higher level characters. I wouldn't want it in my campaign, because if you let a player near basic rule breaking item (like ignore DR/-), they will find a way to break the game with it.

Foryn Gilnith

2010-05-08, 07:58 PM

The last time I used a gun I just treated it like a Wand of Splinterbolt. 90 gp per round, 4d6 piercing, 18-20, 30 foot range.

graeylin

2010-05-09, 12:27 AM

coming at it from a completely different direction..

a 1st level warlock can fire a 1d6 eldritch bolt round after round after round after round... essentially, shooting someone with an automatic weapon. Ranged touch attack, so some lesser AC has been factored in So, why not base your shotgun on the type of damage that WOTC has already deemed to be "playable" in the world...

Shotgun does 1d6 every round, ranged attack, touch if you want to make it a bit easier to do the damage. Make it cost some feats (exotic weapon, perhaps another, because a warlock is gimped here and there to keep him in line too). After some levels, you can raise the damage to 2d6, perhaps costing another feat to get that or something. that way, a fighter can't just get all his normal feats AND a weapon that always does 1d6 or 2d6 or 4d6 damage with a ranged touch attack.. it has to cost him something, for balance sake.

I used to think "guns, that would totally destroy the D&D balance and dynamics", and then after reading many threads like this, realized.. nah, not if you used common sense and balanced it. You can't just toss a shotgun to a wizard and let him run amok, but replacing a greatsword with a shotgun, or replacing a ray or wand with a rifle, isn't bad, as long as the end effect is balanced... what does it matter that your BBEG was hit with a shotgun slug for 2d6, a broadsword for 2d6, an eldritch blast for the same, or a dagger with a sneak attack bonus... it's all flavor.

a 1st level warlock can fire a 1d6 eldritch bolt round after round after round after round... essentially, shooting someone with an automatic weapon. Ranged touch attack, so some lesser AC has been factored in So, why not base your shotgun on the type of damage that WOTC has already deemed to be "playable" in the world...

Shotgun does 1d6 every round, ranged attack, touch if you want to make it a bit easier to do the damage. Make it cost some feats (exotic weapon, perhaps another, because a warlock is gimped here and there to keep him in line too). After some levels, you can raise the damage to 2d6, perhaps costing another feat to get that or something. that way, a fighter can't just get all his normal feats AND a weapon that always does 1d6 or 2d6 or 4d6 damage with a ranged touch attack.. it has to cost him something, for balance sake.

I used to think "guns, that would totally destroy the D&D balance and dynamics", and then after reading many threads like this, realized.. nah, not if you used common sense and balanced it. You can't just toss a shotgun to a wizard and let him run amok, but replacing a greatsword with a shotgun, or replacing a ray or wand with a rifle, isn't bad, as long as the end effect is balanced... what does it matter that your BBEG was hit with a shotgun slug for 2d6, a broadsword for 2d6, an eldritch blast for the same, or a dagger with a sneak attack bonus... it's all flavor.

FourDeeSpace

2010-05-09, 05:22 PM

Didn't read to see if someone posted this, but here is the Weird War II shotgun rules (which are OGL-compatible) with a couple extra homebrew.

A shotgun, instead of losing accuracy with range increments, gains accuracy but loses damage due to the spread effect. Inside the first range increment, a shotgun does 4d6 damage, after one increment it does 3d6 and gets +1 to hit, after two increments it 2d6 and gets +2 to hit, after the third increment it deals 1d6 and gets +3 to hit, and scatters to much to be any good after three increments. A double barrel shotgun can fire both shots at once using a single attack roll for both shots. A full-size shotgun has a range of 30ft, and a sawed-off shotgun has a range increment of 10ft.

You can use slugs with shotguns, which work as any other gun, dealing 3d6 damage but getting -2 to hit. A shotgun can have a tight choke installed, which is a simple action with tools that takes 2 full-round actions. The choke increases range increments 10ft but you cannot fire slugs or specialty rounds such as flares or gas shells. A character can load an internal magazine fed firearm like a pump-action shotgun or lever-action rifle 1d4+dex modifier shells as a move action.

A shotgun, instead of losing accuracy with range increments, gains accuracy but loses damage due to the spread effect. Inside the first range increment, a shotgun does 4d6 damage, after one increment it does 3d6 and gets +1 to hit, after two increments it 2d6 and gets +2 to hit, after the third increment it deals 1d6 and gets +3 to hit, and scatters to much to be any good after three increments. A double barrel shotgun can fire both shots at once using a single attack roll for both shots. A full-size shotgun has a range of 30ft, and a sawed-off shotgun has a range increment of 10ft.

You can use slugs with shotguns, which work as any other gun, dealing 3d6 damage but getting -2 to hit. A shotgun can have a tight choke installed, which is a simple action with tools that takes 2 full-round actions. The choke increases range increments 10ft but you cannot fire slugs or specialty rounds such as flares or gas shells. A character can load an internal magazine fed firearm like a pump-action shotgun or lever-action rifle 1d4+dex modifier shells as a move action.

Darklord Xavez

2010-05-09, 05:27 PM

Here's how I did the stats for my shotgun in my "current" campaign that I'm DMing. Now I know this is massively convoluted, but I didn't actually plan for the shotgun to see much use. More of a throwaway idea.

Point-blank range (5 feet away): Does d12 damage

10 feet away: d10 damage

15 feet away: d8 damage

20 feet away: d6 damage

25 feet away: d4 damage

30 feet away: d2 damage

35+ feet away: 1 damage

It fires 5 slugs.

If you succeed on your attack roll by matching the AC or exceeding it by 1, then you hit with 1 slug.

If you succeed on your attack roll by 2 to 3, then you have an 80% chance of hitting with 1 slug, 20% chance of hitting with 2.

If you succeed on your attack roll by 4 to 5, then you have a 60% chance of hitting with 1 slug, 20% chance of hitting with 2, and 20% chance of hitting with 3.

If you succeed on your attack roll by 6 to 7, then you have a 40% chance of hitting with 1 slug, 20% chance of hitting with 2, 20% chance of hitting with 3, and 20% chance of hitting with 4.

If you succeed on your attack roll by more than 8, then you have a 20% chance of hitting with 1 slug, 20% chance of hitting with 2, 20% chance of hitting with 3, 20% chance of hitting with 4, and 20% chance of hitting with 5.

Deliciously convoluted! :smallbiggrin:

Hello, GOD.:biggrin:

Point-blank range (5 feet away): Does d12 damage

10 feet away: d10 damage

15 feet away: d8 damage

20 feet away: d6 damage

25 feet away: d4 damage

30 feet away: d2 damage

35+ feet away: 1 damage

It fires 5 slugs.

If you succeed on your attack roll by matching the AC or exceeding it by 1, then you hit with 1 slug.

If you succeed on your attack roll by 2 to 3, then you have an 80% chance of hitting with 1 slug, 20% chance of hitting with 2.

If you succeed on your attack roll by 4 to 5, then you have a 60% chance of hitting with 1 slug, 20% chance of hitting with 2, and 20% chance of hitting with 3.

If you succeed on your attack roll by 6 to 7, then you have a 40% chance of hitting with 1 slug, 20% chance of hitting with 2, 20% chance of hitting with 3, and 20% chance of hitting with 4.

If you succeed on your attack roll by more than 8, then you have a 20% chance of hitting with 1 slug, 20% chance of hitting with 2, 20% chance of hitting with 3, 20% chance of hitting with 4, and 20% chance of hitting with 5.

Deliciously convoluted! :smallbiggrin:

Hello, GOD.:biggrin:

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