PDA

View Full Version : Power-building a wizard [3.5]



Shademan
2010-05-06, 02:41 AM
greetings playground!
for various reasons I need a aprox. 15lv wizard, and I need him to be POWERFULL! I'm talkin' every mean and nasty power building trick there is. And pretty much every book is availible!
I usually make characters simple, and for flavour mostly, so powerbuidling is not my forte. I humbly request your help in the matter.

some info you might wanna know:
race: human
alignemt: good.

that is all,I think... Thank you!

Edwin
2010-05-06, 02:43 AM
You can never go wrong with Wizard 15 and a good selection of spells, though I recommend looking into the Incantrix. It's neat if you like metamagic.

Kylarra
2010-05-06, 02:43 AM
Wiz 5/Incantrix 10

done?

Eldariel
2010-05-06, 02:45 AM
Do you want to fool around with Ice Assassin to try and get some Divine Ranks and be an overdeity, or are you talking some slightly less powerful powerful? Because as you know, a level 15 Wizard can smash everything to smithereens if he wants to.

Shademan
2010-05-06, 02:49 AM
well I dont want him to be a GOD. just really badass.

what book is incantrix in?

Eldariel
2010-05-06, 02:59 AM
well I dont want him to be a GOD. just really badass.

what book is incantrix in?

Player's Guide to Faerun. And honestly, yeah, Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10 is plenty good. Most of Wizard's power is in his spells anyways. Use the overpowered spells if you want to make a truly busted Wizard, Persist (with Incantatrix's ability) all buffs you can imagine, use 24 hour-buffs and Extended buffs and use immunity-penetrating metamagicked Orbs or whatever as your primary offense with various control spells and quickened stuff as your backup.

JeminiZero
2010-05-06, 03:22 AM
Inicidentally, PGtF is also the source of spellblades (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151109). :smallbiggrin:

weenie
2010-05-06, 03:52 AM
Another route you could go is Red wizard. The PrC is in the DMG and with circle magic you can make every spell you have be hightened to lvl20 for free, and empowered and maximized. Oh, and you can raise your caster level above 40 without much struggle. Just make two simulacrums of yourself to cast everything they have on you in the morning. At that level you can grapple just about anything with your black tentacles of forced intrusion and then just kill it of with some scorching rays or something..

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-05-06, 05:12 AM
Another route you could go is Red wizard. The PrC is in the DMG and with circle magic you can make every spell you have be hightened to lvl20 for free, and empowered and maximized. Oh, and you can raise your caster level above 40 without much struggle. Just make two simulacrums of yourself to cast everything they have on you in the morning. At that level you can grapple just about anything with your black tentacles of forced intrusion and then just kill it of with some scorching rays or something..

This is 100% dependent on having multiple other wizards contributing spell slots to you, which is highly unlikely for any PC to accomplish without extreme DM favoritism. Even then, it's most useful if every wizard including yourself is participating in multiple circles each day, so that seven other wizards can each heighten a spell to 20th level and then contribute that spell to your spell pool so you get 140 spell levels for the day, but this takes eight hours of circle magic every day. Red Wizard is only viable for NPCs/villains.


I'd go with a Shadowcraft Mage build, though it sort of requires an encyclopedic knowledge of all Evocation and Conjuration: Creation and Summoning spells in the game. You could probably just compile a list of favorite spells to use and situational spells and be fine, though. Go something like Whisper Gnome (RoS) Wizard (Illusionist) 3/ Master Specialist (CM) 4/ Shadowcraft Mage (RoS) 5/ Shadowcrafter (Und) 3+, use the Gnome Illusionist 1 racial substitution level (RoS) to get Silent Image as a 0-level spell, along with all three UA Illusionist ACFs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#illusionistVariants). Get Signature Spell (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Signature_spell) (PGtF): Silent Image and Ability Focus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#abilityFocus) (MM): Silent Image, Earth Spell (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Earth_Spell) (RoS), Metamagic School Focus (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Metamagic_School_Focus) (CM), and Residual Magic (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Residual_Magic) (CM), along with Easy Metamagic (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Easy_Metamagic): Heighten and Enhanced Shadow Reality (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Enhanced_Shadow_Reality) if you can use Dragon magazine. Take two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm), I'd suggest Noncombatant and Weak-Willed.

At level 15 you can convert an 8th level prepared spell into a Heightened Silent Image, which counts as a 10th level spell at caster level 24, and has a DC of 26+Int mod, which can mimic any Evocation or Conjuration: Creation or Summoning spell of 9th level or lower as though it were a Shadow Conjuration or Shadow Evocation, which is 150% more powerful than normal if they make the Will save to disbelieve. The following round, you can convert a 0-level prepared spell into another Silent Image heightened to 10th level, due to Residual Magic. It's a bit complicated, but it works wonderfully. You can keep all kinds of situational spells, problem solving spells, buffs, etc. prepared, and spontaneously convert what you don't need into offensive spells or more situational spells on the fly via Silent Image.

Amphetryon
2010-05-06, 05:22 AM
Conjuration specialist Wizard 4/Master Specialist 3/Halruaan Elder 8 is another badass option.

The first PrC is in CM. The second is in Shining South.

EDIT: Thanks, 2xMachina

Eldariel
2010-05-06, 05:24 AM
Conjuration specialist Wizard 4/Focused Specialist 3/Halruaan Elder 8 is another badass option.

The first PrC is in CM. The second is in Shining South.

You can actually enter Focused Specialist on 4 so Wiz 3/Foc 4 is likely better. And Red Wizard...that's what Simulacrum, various Leadership-feats, PAO, Dark Chaos Shuffle and fast time planes are for. Red Wizard can be very usable in PC hands if one puts enough effort into it. Of course, since things you need to make it really work are all busted on their own, it does create a conundrum.

2xMachina
2010-05-06, 05:27 AM
It's Master Spec (the PrC)

Focused Spec is an alt school focus.

Amphetryon
2010-05-06, 05:38 AM
It's Master Spec (the PrC)

Focused Spec is an alt school focus.

Fix'd. Thanks for the catch. I must remember: Coffee, then post.

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-06, 07:50 AM
Playing a wizard is all about making the most intelligent use of your spells and feats possible. PrCs are (usually) just insanity-inducing icing on an already crazy-go-nuts cake.

Even just core-only you can manage infinite wishes as soon as you can sell your spell-book to buy a scroll of simulacrum or planar binding, and it doesn't take much to pull out thousands of d6's in damage each round on multiple opponents at a time, if you want to. Do some searches on spell-combos (and research both playing Batman and God wizards), and that will be your bread-and-butter for playing a stupid-powerful tier 1 caster.

I'd say that you need to find yourself a focus, but as a wizard (or at least a character with wizard as a chassis) you can change your focus whenever you want, simply by resting for 8 hours. Even so, figure out what kinds of things you'd like to do, what kind of tricks you'd like to have at your disposal, and what kind of campaign (or PvP duel, or build contest) you're going to be in.

Are you playing solo? Because minions are a powerful thing (especially permanent ones).

Are you playing in a large group (including playing solo)? Party buffs.

Are you going up against massively powerful single opponents? Single-target debuffs (especially rays and touch attacks) and save-or-dies.

Are you hitting the mass battles, with lots of low-level critters and their more powerful leaders? Area effect debuffs, battlefield control, and metamagicked-to-hell AoE damage spells (preferably with durations, so you can kill huge numbers of mooks with a single spell slot).

Mindless creatures, such as undead and constructs? Illusion spells to immobilize them while you kite-n-kill from outside their reach.

Landbound creatures that have limited ranged abilities? Grease to make them useless and summon spells to keep 'em tied up and to whack 'em until they die.

Need to protect yourself against ambushes and counter-attacks for anything that actually manages to get close enough to do so (which, if you play correctly, won't happen, but, being not-as-omnipotent as the DM, probably will)? Wizards have ways to become flat-out immune to damage and status effects, and even death (and at a very early level, too).

Not quite sure what you'll be up against, and need to know which of the above will be most viable in any given encounter? Divinations (which you should make a habit of preparing and using daily).

Shademan
2010-05-06, 08:00 AM
well, it will likely be in a wasteland, a ash desert to be specific (no walker of the waste, plz) and there will be two other players. What I aim to create is a wizard that can mop the floor with anyone that stands in his way. He's gonna be really powerfull... but use his magic as rarely as possible. He have a discworld wizard's view on magic, trying to not use it at all.
offcourse, sooner or later I will have to unleash my powers and I want the two other slightly powergaming players to be surprised.

Doc Roc
2010-05-06, 08:02 AM
I'm going to second Halruaan Elder, actually. If you really want to stretch:


Wizard 3/Master Specialist 4(Complete mage)/Incantatrix 4(Player's Guide To Faerun)/Halruaan Elder 4 (Shining South)

Feats:
Pretty much whatever, as long as you can qualify

OR
Martial Wizard 3(Unearthed arcana)/War Weaver 5(Heroes of Battle)/Spellguard of Silver 5(Player's Guide to Faerun)/Spell dancer 2(Magic of Faerun)/
Spells you need:
Acorn of Far-travel [Web Enhancement]

Feats:
Ocular Spell (from human) [Lords of Madness]
Sanctum Spell (from flaw) [Complete Arcane]
Dodge (From flaw)
Mobility (From Martial wizard)
Enlarge Spell (1st)
Combat Casting (3rd)
Endurance (6th)
Magic of the Land (9th) [Races of the Wild]
_______ (12th)
_______ (15th)
Extend Spell (Spellguard)
Persist (From Spellguard) [Complete Arcane]

We're using the sanctum spell + dragonsblood pool [Complete mage, magical location] trick to qualify early for war weaver.

I can offer explanations if desired. Sourcing on request.

Shademan
2010-05-06, 08:27 AM
book please? :smalltongue:

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-05-06, 08:34 AM
In that case, make a Sand Shaper. You can make sand walls 5 minutes ago, interrupting charging opponents, blocking line of effect after an enemy decides to target you, and creating time paradoxes.

gbprime
2010-05-06, 08:36 AM
Another decent build is an Ultimate Magus. Wiz 1 / Warmage 4 / UM 10. By taking Practiced Spellcaster at the right time, at 15th level you end up with Warmage 14 (CL 18) and Wizard 8 (CL 16, or 12 depending on DM interpretation). The wizard spells cover the gaps the warmage spells can't touch and can be sacked to provide metamagic when needed. (I recommend an Abjurer, and be sure to pick up Empower, Quicken, and perhaps Nonlethal Substitution. You have 2-3 feat slots not required for all this, so there's flexibility too.)

Doc Roc
2010-05-06, 08:37 AM
book please? :smalltongue:

Sources are filled in.
Build 1 is just bad-ass metamagick-o-clock.
Build 2 uses an abusive interaction between Spellguard and Magic of the Land to let you place personal spells through the weave, in conjunction with persist from spelldancer.

ErrantX
2010-05-06, 08:43 AM
Another decent build is an Ultimate Magus. Wiz 4 / Beguiler 1 / UM 10.

There, I fixed it for you. Finish out with Archmage or Incantatrix. Warmage (unless you're using T.G. Oskar's fixed version) isn't worth it. Least of all as the power house in a build, and to top it off your build didn't work because you needed 2nd level prep spells. Beguiler and Wizard have Int synergy, and Beguiler has some great spells at its disposal for controlling.

-X

Doc Roc
2010-05-06, 08:49 AM
In that case, make a Sand Shaper. You can make sand walls 5 minutes ago, interrupting charging opponents, blocking line of effect after an enemy decides to target you, and creating time paradoxes.

Sandshapers get time manipulation? What printing is YOUR copy of sandstorm?!

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-06, 08:51 AM
Another decent build is an Ultimate Magus. Wiz 1 / Warmage 4 / UM 10. By taking Practiced Spellcaster at the right time, at 15th level you end up with Warmage 14 (CL 18) and Wizard 8 (CL 16, or 12 depending on DM interpretation). The wizard spells cover the gaps the warmage spells can't touch and can be sacked to provide metamagic when needed. (I recommend an Abjurer, and be sure to pick up Empower, Quicken, and perhaps Nonlethal Substitution. You have 2-3 feat slots not required for all this, so there's flexibility too.)Warmage? REALLY?!

ErrantX
2010-05-06, 08:54 AM
Another idea is that you could do an Abjurer 5 / Master Specialist (Abjurerer) 4 / Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 6 (finish to 7, then Archmage to flavor).

Really powerful defenses so you can Batman away at your foes.

-X

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-05-06, 09:18 AM
Sandshapers get time manipulation? What printing is YOUR copy of sandstorm?!
"Each attempt to create an item requires a number of minutes equal to the DC."

Item Size DC
1 cu. ft. or less 5
An object one cubic foot takes -5 minutes to craft, so make your wall 5 ft. wide by 5 ft. tall by 0.48 inches thick (0.02 ft.) and it appears five minutes ago.



Another decent build is an Ultimate Magus. Wiz 1 / Warmage 4 / UM 10. By taking Practiced Spellcaster at the right time, at 15th level you end up with Warmage 14 (CL 18) and Wizard 8 (CL 16, or 12 depending on DM interpretation). The wizard spells cover the gaps the warmage spells can't touch and can be sacked to provide metamagic when needed. (I recommend an Abjurer, and be sure to pick up Empower, Quicken, and perhaps Nonlethal Substitution. You have 2-3 feat slots not required for all this, so there's flexibility too.)

As others have said, Beguiler is a much better choice than Warmage for entering UM, and more Wizard spellcasting is much better than more spontaneous casting. Additionally, a Wizard 1/ Warmage 4 doesn't even qualify for UM, since you need 1st level spontaneous spells and 2nd level prepared spells.

UM is indeed a superb choice, especially since you can add 10/10 UM spellcasting to Wizard and end up with 14th level Wizard spellcasting and 8th level Beguiler spellcasting at level 15. Make it an Illumian (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041203a&page=2) with the Krau sigil and take Practiced Spellcaster: Beguiler, that way your Wizard caster level is never higher than your Beguiler caster level and you can increase your Wizard spellcasting at UM 1, 4, and 7. Take the Beguiler level at 1st for more skill points, and get Able Learner since Illumians are Humanoid (Human) to keep up your ranks in those nice skills. Be sure to take Versatile Spellcaster from Races of the Dragon, which allows you to spend two Beguiler spell slots of the same level to cast any spell you know of one level higher, which basically gives you spontaneous access to every Wizard spell of 5th level or lower that you've made the Spellcraft check to understand, even if it's not in your spellbook. It makes an extremely versatile and thus powerful character, especially starting in the higher levels.

BobVosh
2010-05-06, 09:41 AM
Wizard 3, Master Specialist 6(comp Mage), Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 5(comp Arc)
Feats:
1) Spell Focus: Abjuration
3)
6)
9)
12)
15)
Bonus Feats: Skill Focus(Spell craft)
Greater Spell Focus: Abjuration
Required Skills: 12 K:Arcane, 12 Spellcraft, 4 K:Nature

Those are your only prereqs. Master specialist gives you two of the required feats, and a few others besides. Finish with MS 3, Archmage 3, or Incantrix 3. Alternatively you can go Wiz 3, MS 2, Incantrix 4, Initiate of the sevenfold veil 5, Finish IotSV then Incantrix as far as possible(7 total)

Tytalus
2010-05-06, 10:00 AM
There, I fixed it for you.


Beguiler1/Wizard4/UM++ is vastly superior to Wizard4/Beguiler1/UM++.

Skill points, hit points, you name it. Be human and get the Able Learner feat.

ErrantX
2010-05-06, 10:15 AM
Beguiler1/Wizard4/UM++ is vastly superior to Wizard4/Beguiler1/UM++.

Skill points, hit points, you name it. Be human and get the Able Learner feat.

Now we're just mincing words and being picky.

-X

gbprime
2010-05-06, 10:50 AM
Warmage? REALLY?!

The stated intent of the build was someone who tries not to use magic but can mop the floor with people when he does. Warmage fills that requirement a lot more than beguiler does. A "change the conditions of the fight" caster doesn't mop the floor with people, he enables his ALLIES to mop the floor with people. (Which is more efficient, but not what was asked for here.)

Besides, you don't want to see people using the One True Build all the time in every campaign. The build should serve the character, not the other way around. And optimization without variety is boring. Mix it up. :smallwink:

Doc Roc
2010-05-06, 10:52 AM
The stated intent of the build was someone who tries not to use magic but can mop the floor with people when he does. Warmage fills that requirement a lot more than beguiler does. A "change the conditions of the fight" caster doesn't mop the floor with people, he enables his ALLIES to mop the floor with people. (Which is more efficient, but not what was asked for here.)

Besides, you don't want to see people using the One True Build all the time in every campaign. The build should serve the character, not the other way around. And optimization without variety is boring. Mix it up. :smallwink:

Except that war-mage is itself thoroughly boring... :S

gbprime
2010-05-06, 10:53 AM
Except that war-mage is itself thoroughly boring... :S

If played all the time, absolutely. If used in a large party where a support caster would be more efficient, absolutely. If he doesn't have a second class to add more spells to his repetoire, absolutely. :smallsmile:

veovius
2010-05-06, 08:36 PM
At that level you can grapple just about anything with your black tentacles of forced intrusion

I just wanted to say that that is so wrong....:p

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-06, 08:46 PM
I just wanted to say that that is so wrong....:pWelcome to GiantITP.com. :smallwink:

Shademan
2010-05-07, 06:47 AM
thanks alot for the help guys. I'm sure I can work something out of this :smallbiggrin:

aivanther
2010-05-07, 07:32 AM
I like: Beguiler 1/Focused Conjurer 4/UM 10

Ban evocation, enchantment, and abjuration, as you get anything you could possible need from the latter two from Beguiler, and Conjuration can do almost anything evocation can do better. Be sure to pick up practiced spell caster at lvl 3 for beguiler to level your conjurer up as much as poosible in UM.

Really, you have more spells/day than you'll probably ever use due to action economy, but it's just sweet to have that many spells/day.

Doc Roc
2010-05-07, 07:53 AM
thanks alot for the help guys. I'm sure I can work something out of this :smallbiggrin:

Let us know what build you roll with!

Ingus
2010-05-07, 07:56 AM
If you're allowed Item Familiar (UA) and Weapons of Legacy (a book fo itself), I have a really cool customized object to share with you. Basicly it casts one spell per round by its own at your caster level (so your character would cast 3 spells a round at his best), grants you a lot of bonus and it's totally cool to roleplay.
My suggestion is to use it with a heavy controller (Incantatrix+Archmage).

If you can use this manuals, I'll search my notes in my spare time. Just say a word

Levithix
2010-05-07, 09:55 AM
From personal experience of being in a party with a warmage who had lots of fun with metamagic, he was really effective.

After all, people are easier to control when they are dead.

Shademan
2010-05-07, 03:08 PM
Let us know what build you roll with!

heh, well I actually have several concepts flying around...wizard...nomad...crusader... And the game isnt likely to start until the summer so we'll see :smalltongue: